This is the Truth Network. Welcome to If Not For God. Stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. All right, this is Mike Zwick with If Not For God with Mike Zwick.
Now, I'm gonna tell you something, guys. When I was growing up, Uh, we use the King James only version, and they told us that was the best version to use of the Bible. But as I got older, there came in and they brought in a lot of disagreement with people who believe that. And now there are a lot of people who say, No, no, no, that's crazy. But I do believe that the King James Bible, a lot of the KJV-only guys are making a huge comeback, and it's becoming very popular.
You've got guys like Bill Weiss who are encouraging people to use the King James only. You've got Kent Hovind, who did a good video online, if you ever get a chance to watch that, who encouraged people to use the King James as well. But I've got a pastor out of Anchor Baptist Church out of Oklahoma City, a Dylan Oz. How are you doing today, Dylan? Hey, I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me on. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks for asking. And I actually saw you online.
I saw you on Facebook and you were talking about the tribulation post-trib. And I said, man, I believe that too. And we were going to talk about that today. But then we started talking about the King James only version. And I just thought it was really interesting because, I mean, you tell people, hey, I use the King James, and they're like, whatever.
But there are some people who do have disagreements about that. Did you grow up using the King James? No, believe it or not, I really didn't grow up in church. And even before I got saved, I actually read the NIV cover to cover. I even read the Geneva Bible as well.
Um but definitely settled on the King James Yeah, and so when you said you settled on the King James, what, I mean, how did you come to that conclusion?
So There's a great documentary that I saw. I want to say it was 2012 or 2013, but it's called New World Order Bible Versions. And it talks about the difference between the King James Bible. Which is based on the Masoretic Hebrew and the Textus Receptus Greek.
So the Hebrew for the Old Testament, the Greek for the New. And it talks about the differences in the source from the King James Version versus the modern. Versions of the Bible. Which actually come from a completely different source called the critical text. And I think a lot of your average reader of these modern versions of the Bible think that the modern versions are simply just an updated language.
You know, just, oh, we're getting rid of the these and the thousands, we're just making it a little bit more easy to understand. But the truth is that they are translated from completely different sources. Different translation philosophy. Different nefarious sources behind the critical text, and we can get into that later. But I think that the King James position is usually Represented as, oh, these are uneducated people.
This is such a silly, stupid idea to say that you believe that the King James is the word of God. But what's funny is that people who hold to the critical text versions of the Bible, I always ask them this: okay, well, if the King James Bible is not the perfect Word of God, Please tell me which version is the perfect Word of God. in English. And if they're honest with you, they'll end up saying that we don't have it. That's a pretty big statement to make, to say that we don't have it because, you know.
When we're Christians, I mean, we believe that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God. And if you believe that there's errors in the Word of God, then you know, it's like somebody said one time: they said, if you can't trust Genesis 1:1, you can't trust John 3:16. Yeah, it's so true. And these people that are proponents of the Critical text Bibles, they'll usually Give lip service to the doctrine of inspiration. They'll say, Of course, God gave us his word.
Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. And they'll say, Yeah, of course, the word of God was perfect and inerrant and complete. In the original manuscripts. But unfortunately, the hand of time has kind of wiped it out. And now what we have is just pretty good or pretty close.
But that doesn't match with what the Bible says. Because in Psalm 12, the Bible says that the words of the Lord are pure words. As silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times, thou shalt keep them, O Lord. Thou shalt preserve them from this generation. forever.
And so to me, I would say that if you believe the doctrine of Inspiration without preservation, that's a really silly belief. That God is so powerful to create the world, save our souls, give us His Word, but He's not powerful enough to preserve it. That just seems like a really silly idea to me. Yeah, and the people who do not believe in the King James Version older, do not believe that it's the best version, would say, Well, the other manuscripts are actually older than the ones from the King James. What would you say to that?
Well, you know, that may be true for some individual parchments, but you know, age does not determine validity. You know, in fact, it was a Jewish custom to, when a scribal error was made on parchment. They would bury those parchments. And so oftentimes people are digging up parchments and being like, oh, wow, we found this wonderful discovery. But really, what you're digging up was mistakes, trash, errors.
You know, for example, one of the famous texts that make up the critical text is the Codex Sinaiaticus. which was discovered in a monastery in the 1800s by a man named Constantine von Tischendorf. And he wrote a book describing how he came across this document. And if you read his writings, he talks about how these parchments, the Codex Sinai Atticus, was destined for the flame. It was trash.
It was set aside as things to be discarded. But he rescued that, and that text ended up being a big foundation of what is the critical text today. I pretty recently preached a sermon on this called Bible Corruptors. that I definitely would recommend people check out just to get some more history on it. Yeah, and so it's Anchor Baptist Church.
If people want to follow you and your sermons and your church, how would they do that? I did it on Facebook. Yeah, Anchor Baptist Church in Oklahoma City on YouTube, Facebook. And then on X, it's pastor Oz, A W E S. Yeah.
Um did you I mentioned earlier Kent Tovind, uh where he encouraged people use to to use the King James Version. Have you seen that video where he talked about that? I don't think I have. I'm aware of him, more of his creation stuff. But I've never been a follower of Kent Hoven, so I I have not heard that.
Okay. Um so They said, hey, there may be some older texts, and that's why we wouldn't use the King James Version. But what are some other reasons why we should use the King James Version over the other ones? Yeah, so again, the King James Version, the source that it comes from, is the Masoretic Hebrew that's been passed down from generation to generation. It's faithful, it's tried, it's true.
and the textus receptus Greek, which is Over 5,400 manuscripts that make up what's known as the traditional text. It's been passed down throughout the generations. Church leaders. You could find quotes of them using it, you know, well before the year 400 AD. where the critical text is made up of Two basic texts.
It's the textus. I'm sorry, it's the Codex Sinaiticus. And the Codex Vaticanus. I already talked a little bit about Sinaiaticus. Vaticanus was found in the Pope's library, which I don't know why any Bible-believing Christian would take a document found in the Catholic Church and give credence to that.
But also, what's really important is the men who first compiled. the critical text. Th this man these men are Westcott and Hort. And these guys had really bad intentions. They were just really open.
In their writings, about how they believed the Byzantine text to be totally corrupt and how they wanted to reconstruct the text. They had all sorts of crazy doctrines. Like, for example, let me find a quote here. Um So here's a quote from Hort, one of the men that compiled the critical text. And again, what today modern versions are based on is the critical text, usually the Nestle lawn, which is on like its 28th edition.
But that came from West Scott and Hort. One of the things that Hort said in 1860 was this: He said, the doctrine of substitution. is an immoral counterfeit. certainly nothing can be more unscriptural than Christ's bearing our sins and sufferings. But indeed that is only one aspect of an almost universal heresy.
So the men behind the critical text, one of the men behind the critical text said that the substitutionary death of Christ, which is like one of the most basic Christian doctrines, that Jesus Christ died for our sins, he said that that is a universal heresy. And he said, there's nothing more unscriptural than that. I mean, think about the reality of that. These guys promoted baptismal regeneration, infant baptism. They praised the Catholic Church.
Their sons wrote about how they communed with spirits. And so, like, just the source of where the critical text is coming from, it's obviously coming from an evil source. And you know what? The devil would love to corrupt God's Word. 2 Corinthians 2.17 says, For we are not as many which corrupt the word of God.
But as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, speak we in Christ.
So even in the Apostle Paul's day, there were men that were corrupting the Word of God. That's what I believe West Scott and Hort were doing, and unfortunately, their corruption. Has gone forth. into our day and age. But I do think a lot of people are waking up.
to the Bible version issue. Yeah, and so I have some very young sons, and one of my sons, Christian, actually, and I think you heard them in the car today while I was talking to you. Do you have any children yourself? Yeah, I've got four daughters.
So, no, it didn't bother me. I'm used to it. Oh, okay. But, you know, one of the things that I was actually impressed with you today, Dylan, was that you said, you know, you actually work a full-time job and you preach at a church. And so, you know, I think it's pretty cool.
They, you know, there's a lot of people out there who say, hey, people are just, preachers are just in it for the money or they're, you know, just in it for this or that or the other. And, and by the way, there are some that are out there. I mean, we've all heard about the Kenneth Copelands and many of the Benny Hens and many of the others who have, you know, they've, they've gone behind the scenes. They said, wow, these guys are just spending money lavishly. And then this is money that these, that there are poor people who really don't have the money to give.
They're encouraging people to give the money that they don't. Have and then they're using it unwisely. And I'm sure God doesn't look very, uh, very highly on that. But. Yeah, absolutely.
Second Peter 2 warns us about false prophets who, through feigned words, make merchandise of people. And so, of course, there are money-loving preachers. But yeah, just don't follow a preacher that's not preaching the right gospel, someone who's preaching work salvation. You know, someone who's just preaching weird stuff, and that'll definitely weed out a lot of those types of people.
Well, and if you want to find some weird stuff that a preacher is preaching, there's plenty of that stuff online, right? Yeah, no doubt about that. It's important to get into a real church because if you just live online, you could find any weird belief that you have. And it's not good to be in an echo chamber. It's good to be around real people that you actually see in the flesh.
So, yeah, definitely get into a good Baptist church.
Well, Hebrews 10, 25 says, do not forsake the gathering of yourselves, as some of them have done, especially as we see the day approaching. And as we talk about the day approaching, one of the things that got you on this interview was I saw how you said, there's a lot of people preaching a preacher. Pre-trib rapture, and I believe from what I saw, you said that's not what I see in the Bible. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely.
The pre-trib rapture is not biblical whatsoever. There's zero verses in the Bible that teach a pre-trib rapture. If someone wants to teach a pre-trib raptor from behind the pulpit, They either don't use scripture and they just kind of say these mantras like. You know, I'm looking for the upper taker, I'm not looking for the undertaker, praise God. You know, they'll just have these little cute mantras or whatever.
Or they'll have all these complicated charts and commentaries and man's explanation, but they can't really show you from the Bible. But again, that's something else that people are waking up to. But, real quick, my brain's kind of all over the place. One thing I did want to say, though, is I think unfortunately, because of the lie of the pre-trib rapture. And people are kind of waking up to the fact that it's a lie.
I've seen some people go to another unbiblical extreme where they say that the rapture just isn't biblical at all. And of course, that's not true either. The Bible does teach that there will be a bodily return of the Lord Jesus Christ. In the air, but the Bible's very clear that that happens after the tribulation. Yeah, and I actually woke up to it a few years ago as well because I was always taught pre-trib rapture.
And in the church in America, I mean, for the longest time, every almost everybody believed that.
Now, there were some odd mill and postmill and all of that, but a lot of that other stuff, like you said, is making a comeback these days. But what kind of brought me out of it was I just read Matthew 24. That's a great place to start because it's so clear immediately after the tribulation of those days. Talks about the sun and moon being darkened. And the angels of God.
you know, gathering together his elect.
So yeah, and here's the thing. I think a lot of Christians get confused because they've always heard their preacher. Equate these two things, tribulation and wrath. They act like these are the same things. And this is the biggest mistake people make in end times prophecy: they see a verse, and I believe it's 1 Thessalonians, where it says that we are not appointed to wrath.
And amen, we're not appointed to wrath. You know, we don't believe that we are going to go through the wrath of God. But tribulation is not the wrath of God. If you just do a simple word search on the word tribulation in the Bible, you're going to constantly see Christians going through tribulation. If you read the Bible, you're going to constantly see characters in the Bible going through.
tribulation And so, this idea that, oh, everyone else has always gone through tribulation, but we can never go through tribulation. It's really only a doctrine that's believed by rich Americans, to be honest with you. Other countries are not fooled by this. It's kind of just we live in a very soft, safe. Easy society.
Where we haven't really faced a lot of hardships in our generation. And so it just is an easy thing to believe. But you know, Jesus said, These things I've spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation. But be of good cheer, for I've overcome the world.
Jesus said, Hey, in the world, you will have tribulation. Oh, Christians can't go through tribulation.
Well, that's not what Jesus said. Yeah, he didn't say it at all. In one of the verses that kind of caught me as well, it says, Let nobody say that that day has come until that man of perdition has appeared. And so for me, when I read that, I say, okay, that's the Antichrist. And it's saying the Lord can't come back until the Antichrist has at least appeared on earth.
What do you think? Absolutely. There's a couple things to think about when it comes to the timing of the rapture. Number one, Christians have always gone through tribulation. Christians are told they're going to go through tribulation in the Bible.
Number two, the Bible makes it clear that the rapture cannot happen at any moment because the pre-tribbers believe in the imminent return of Christ. That it could happen at any moment. That is not true. And look, just because someone's pre-trib doesn't mean you know that they're a terrible person or anything like that. I love many pre-tribbers, it's not something I would divide fellowship over, but I do believe firmly that they're wrong.
But one of the verses that they'll use to kind of like prove their point is how it talks about how no man knows the day or the hour. Jesus said, no man knows the day or the hour. Um But just because you don't know the exact day or the hour doesn't mean that there aren't events that must happen first. I kind of use the example of how NASA right now is doing the Artemis II program. And they're launching the Artemis II.
SLS. And these launch dates keep getting pushed back because there has to be hydrogen tests and there has to be the right kind of weather and there has to be the right kind of launch window. And it's like, could the launch happen today? No, it couldn't. It couldn't happen at any moment.
These things have to happen first.
So, what are some of the things that have to happen first?
Well, like you were talking about. In 2 Thessalonians 2, it says, That day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed. The son of perdition. It talks about how he sits in the temple of God. how he declares himself to be God.
So look, right now there is no third temple built in Jerusalem. The Antichrist has not been revealed. Whether he's born on this earth or not, we don't know yet. But he's revealed when he stands up in the temple. And he declares himself to be God.
He sets up that abomination of desolation. And then from that point is when the great tribulation begins.
So, yeah, that must happen first. And that's why Paul said: hey, let no man deceive you by any means. He's like, if it's us, if it's a letter, if it's an angel from heaven, don't be deceived by it. You know, because there's a lot of deception regarding end times prophecy for sure. There is, and one of the things that I've thought about, and one of the dangers of the pre-trib rapture is that the Bible says that there will be a mark of the beast, that everybody will be forced to take the mark.
The small, the poor, all the way to the rich, everybody. And it says, you know, I believe that if you will not take the mark, they could actually kill you if you're here. And if you think, hey, I'm going to be out of here for this thing, or I'm going to be out of here when this mark happens, you're absolutely going to take the mark because you're going to say, hey, we can't be here for this thing. But the Bible also says, and I don't know where you are on this, but the Bible also says that once you take that mark, that's it. You're damned.
There's no coming back. There's no repentance or anything like that. It says, once you take the mark of the beast, that's it. And so I especially, not only do I want to be prepared for tribulation, because like you said earlier, Christians have been going through tribulation for the past 2,000 years. But on top of that, if they say, hey, there's a mark that you're Going to take either inner on your hand or enter on your forehead.
And if you don't take that mark, you can't eat or drink or do anything like that or trade or buy or sell. I'm going to know that I don't want to take that mark. Yeah, and what I would say is one of the biggest dangers of teaching the pre-trib rapture. What you're saying, I would say, is a danger for the unsaved. And I'll just read the verses that you're kind of referencing right now in Revelation 14.
Verse 9, it says, And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation, and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever, and they have no rest, day nor night, who worship the beast and his image. whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. The Bible is very clear that if you take the mark of the beast, you are going to hell for all of eternity. That is just a fact.
Now, I personally do not believe that someone who is saved will take this mark or even could take this mark because the Bible makes it clear that we are sealed with the Spirit until the day of redemption, that no man can pluck us out of the Father's hand. You know, I will give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. I do believe in eternal security that once you're saved, you're always saved. The Holy Ghost bears witness of the truth, so I don't believe this is an action that a saved person can commit, but here's the thing. There's going to be lots of unsaved people during this time, too, that have the opportunity to get saved.
But if they take the mark of the beast, they will lose that opportunity, they will go to hell. When it comes to the dangers of the pre-trib rapture, For the saved. I believe it's this, and I want to find the verse because Jesus explained. I want to say it's in John 16. Let me find it real quick here.
Okay, so John 16, 1. He says this. These things have I spoken unto you. that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues.
Yea, the time cometh that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
So he said, I'm telling you in advance. I am warning you in advance that you will go through tribulation. There will be people persecuted, hated, attacked, maybe even killed and martyred for the Lord Jesus Christ. But he says, I'm telling you this so that you're not offended. That word offended, how it's used in the Bible, is usually talking about.
causing to stumble, you know, someone ceasing to serve God. And think about this, if Christians sit in church their whole life. And they're constantly told: we're not going to experience tribulation, we're not going to go through persecution. God's just going to come and save us. He's going to come out of the clouds before anything bad happens.
He's going to take us up to heaven. What's gonna happen in the mind of Christians when all of a sudden? There starts being the tribulation. There starts being worldwide war, famine, pestilences. You know, warfare, the Antichrist standing up, declaring himself God, implementing the mark of the beast.
What it could cause people to do is not lose their salvation, but what it could cause Christians to do is to kind of lose faith a little bit, like not be as trusting in the Lord, saying, God, you know, you were going to come save us, but you're not coming through, you know, and start to doubt the word of God. And maybe even stop serving God because they think, hey, this isn't what I was told is gonna happen.
So that's why it's dangerous for people to teach this doctrine.
Well, and I would also say this as well, that in China, the Christian missionaries from America told them that, hey, before things get really tough, you're going to be out of here. And then came Mao, and then came communism, and they weren't prepared for it. And a lot of them, unfortunately, ended up leaving Christianity because of that, because they weren't prepared for this.
Now, the Bible doesn't say if you. If you have persecution, it says as a Christian, you will suffer persecution. Is that right, Dylan? Yeah, it says, yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. I think a reason a lot of people are deluded into thinking that, oh, we as Christians won't go through persecution is just because they're not living godly in Christ Jesus.
You know, a lot of people just go to a church where the pastor never wants to rock the boat. He only preaches positive sermons. He's never going to end up in the news. He's never going to say something offensive and get the church to be persecuted. You know, and it's just because they're not willing to take a stand.
Where it's like myself and a lot of my friends, like we've been doxxed, we've been stalked in our homes, we've been on the news, we've had the lawsuits, we've had the protests. And I'm not complaining. I'm just saying, like, that's what Jesus said is going to happen if you actually want to serve him. And it's not a surprise to me. It's not some shock, this fiery trial, that's to try us.
because that's what the Bible said would happen. We actually had a Bible study a few years ago over in Burlington, North Carolina, at the church we were at. And one of the guys said, he said, the Bible says that you will suffer persecution. And So. Lost your camera, but I could still hear you.
Yeah, I got you. He says that you will suffer persecution. He says, but. He said, Let me ask you a question. He said, What if you're not suffering any persecution?
What if you're not getting any kickback? What if you're not having any problems? He says, Is that a problem? And I would venture to say, yes. I mean, a lot of these mega churches, after Roe versus Wade was overturned a few years ago, literally said nothing about it.
Now, there were some liberal churches who said, hey, we support abortion, and we know that's wrong. But there were some pastors who just said, you know what? I don't want to get involved. And they knew that if they ended up, you know, they knew that if they ended up not saying anything, then maybe they could avoid some persecution. But.
Because they didn't say anything at all, at the end of the day, people ended up calling them out.
So it's funny how God works. Yeah, obviously the devil is gonna come after those who are actually making a difference, those who are rocking the boat. You know, because The devil can't cause anyone to lose their salvation, but he can discourage people, get Christians to get discouraged and afraid. You know, but the Bible says God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. You know, it's funny, Paul in Second Timothy one, he's exhorting Timothy.
And he says, Hey, be thou a partaker of the afflictions of the gospel. Right, so he's like, Embrace the fact that you're going to go through affliction. Just it, you know, be not thou, therefore, ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me, his prisoner. Be thou a partaker of the afflictions of the gospel. He's saying, Hey, just embrace the hardships.
And you know, we really should. If we suffer any hardships for Christ. We should count that as such an honor that we're able to share in even a tiny fraction of what Jesus went through. The shame. The hatred.
the beatings, the persecution that he went through. If we go through that for our faith, you know, we should actually count that as an honor, as a blessing, not something to be scared of or run away from. Yeah, that's right. I believe there were some disciples or some apostles who were beaten or flogged for their faith. And it said, when they left, they were rejoicing because they were found worthy to be flogged for the name of the Lord, man.
That's a pretty good attitude to have. Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, Hebrews 11 talks about people who wouldn't accept deliverance. Right. They were just willing to go through whatever because they were hoping for that better resurrection.
So I like what the Apostle Paul said. He said, Neither count I my life dear unto myself. It's not about our dear little life, our precious little. I've and trying to protect our comfort. and our image.
Yeah. We should be willing to serve God with everything that we have. And, you know, i if something bad happens as a result of that, ultimately that's in his hands, but we should still trust him. Yeah, trust in the Lord with all thine heart. Lean not unto thine own understanding, and all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your paths.
And, Dylan, I want to thank you for coming on today. I know it's a little bit of a shorter show today. We weren't able to do the four o'clock my time because you work, man. That's cool. But I want to thank you.
I really appreciate you having me on. One thing I really did want to plug real quick, though, is check out the documentary called The Preserved Bible. I helped work on that documentary. It was produced by Steadfast Baptist Church, Cedar Hill, Texas, of Pastor Jonathan Shelley.
So check that out: Preserved Bible. The preserve Bible and how would that be on YouTube or how would you find it? YouTube, Rumble, and I think they still have the website of it. It's like Preserve. Bible Let's see if it's still up.
Yep, it sure is. You can watch it for free at thepreservedbible.com or preservebible.com.
Well, brother, I may take a look at that tonight. I want to thank you for coming on again, brother. Yep, God bless you. God bless you too. All right, for my YouTube channel.
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