Silent Burdens: Hope for First Responders

This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope, If you've ever faced a medical emergency with a loved one, a devastating car accident or a house fire, who did you call to help you in your distress? You likely called a first responder who then willingly entered into your suffering. Today we're sitting down with two very special guests, Alicia Michelson and her husband, Los Angeles County Fire Captain Sven Michelson.

And they're extra special because they're actually my cousins.

So welcome to Hope in the Morning, Sven and Alicia. Hi, thanks for having us. I'd love to start just by talking a little bit, Sven, about what What kind of drove you into wanting to be a first responder in the first place? I don't really remember what started it, but I think I remember as a. young person thinking about it.

And then that sort of went away in my teenage years. And then I think working with my dad who makes law enforcement products, I thought maybe I'll go be a Police officer.

So I tried that for a minute. And then one of our other family friends is a was a firefighter in LA and he's like, why don't you come try this out?

So I went there and I spent the day with them, and I said, This is way better. Yeah, click off from there. And you were you were pretty young. I mean, you guys got married pretty young. And then, because I remember, you know, being your cousin, I'm a couple of years younger than you, but I remember you doing the EMT school and stuff and like having your big bag of stuff that you were rolling.

And you were, were you like 20 or 21 when you were doing that? We already married for paramedics. That was paramedic school. EMT school is first. It's much simpler, like a semester class, or you could do it in three weeks.

Um And Paramedic School is the big one. And paramedic pools where I had a suitcase full of books.

So that was I was probably twenty one, twenty two. Because I got hired as a paramedic. By Pasadena Fire Department at 23.

Okay. And Have there been things since you've been a fireman, have there been things that have surprised you about the job that you didn't realize when you were young were part of it? Yes. Can I articulate exactly what those things are? Maybe not.

There's some stuff that I probably still keep to myself about the job that I won't. Tell you everything. We have to keep the illusion alive that we're just these Big, strong, happy, always willing to help. Good attitude people. Um we're not always that.

I would say more of the stuff that surprised me is more. Administrative, social. It's not all about fighting fires. It's very. few times about fighting fires.

Um I would say Just the interaction with the guys. Is different than I thought it was going to be, and sometimes good, sometimes bad. It's not the family atmosphere. Um Yeah. But it's usually not.

And maybe that's like newer age. Fire department stuff than it was a long time ago, where it was very low pay and tons of work, and it was very dangerous. And most firemen died within five years of retirement, and that was the normal. And so that became like your life. That was your family.

That's who you vacationed with. That's who you spent your time with. We don't really do that anymore. It's Good and bad, it's kind of become a job. For most people.

Yeah.

Well, and I will say, you know, going back to what you mentioned as far as like Wanting to keep up the illusion, you know, part of what we want to do today on Hope in the Morning is the fact that I think people do have this illusion of what it's like to be a first responder, you know, whether you are a police officer or a paramedic or a fireman, and it's not all glitz and glamour. And we want to talk about that a little bit today because a lot of us have first responders and their spouses in our church, and you don't even know the weight that they're carrying, whether they just went to a call that week where they saw something horrific, or the weight of the spouse, like as a wife, not knowing is my husband going to come back from this fire? Is he not? How long is it going to be that he's going to be away this time? Those are things that we want to kind of shed light on today so that people know how can we actually serve one another and not just pretend like everything is glamorous all the time.

Although of course we you know we want to We want to definitely give give the respect and the homage to The beautiful parts of being a first responder, but we want people to understand too: how can you serve these families in the midst of what can be trying times? um alicia as we switch over to you real quick i wanted to ask you about that because Being married to a fireman, there is something almost a little bit more unique than other first responders because of their work schedule. Like it's different than a police officer or a paramedic. They're on for days at a time. What is that like for you?

And kind of like, how do you apply Philippians 4:6 where you can kind of like take your thoughts and your anxieties captive? Yeah, that is, that is one that it's as a first responder's wife, it's something that you have to be. Um, strong mentally and sometimes physically. I mean, it seems like when he's gone for days, that's when everything happens and he's not home.

So I'm the one who has to figure out how to break the or fix the broken water main or something like that. And, or our garage caught on fire and he was at work.

So I'm the one who had to figure that out. It's It's one of those things where you do have to take your thoughts captive. Because there, I. I have to be honest, like there are times when he goes away and I think about like, Okay, um, I could get a knock on the door. I could get a phone call in the middle of the night.

I turn my phone up, my ringer up loud.

So if he is on a fire and someone needs to get a hold of me because he got hurt, I want to make sure I get that call. But I can't let that consume me. I can't let allow those thoughts to. Take over my thought process. And it's hard.

And all our plans I have to hold with an open hand and know that at any time he could call me and say, Hey, I'm being recalled. I'm not going to be home for another two days. And we had a birthday party planned, or we had a dinner planned with friends. And I always would show up at places going, Hi, I'm Alicia. I promise I'm married, even though I show up to everything single.

But it's it's tough. Uh but again, like Not letting those almost like intrusive thoughts of the reality of the job consume my mind, but being like, Lord, thank you for allowing me to be his helper. Thank you for allowing me to be his support for a job and a calling that you've called him to. And how can I better serve him without being this wife at home who's just constantly anxious about the what-ifs. Because even if the what-ifs do happen, I do have a hope in Christ that this was, He's sovereign and he's going to give me the strength and whatever it is.

But definitely, it's not for the faint-hearted. Yeah, yeah. Was that something that you had to kind of grow into that? Or was that something that as soon as you became a fire wife, you just were kind of like, all right, got to put these boots on, and I'm going to, like, I know you. I know that you're, you're a pretty, you're, and I mean this in the best way, like, you're a tough girl.

And, you know, you're definitely the kind of person, like, you can, you can get things done, you can handle things, no problem. But. At the same time, I know how young you were when you became a firewife. Were those things that you struggled with more early on and kind of grew in, or what did that look like for you? Oh, yeah, definitely.

I had no idea what I was getting myself into. And it's. When we first go away, like it started with paramedic school, and we had a two-month-old baby, and he was living at the school and only home, you know, for on the weekends, but he still had to study for eight or nine hours during that time. And I'm sitting here going, Look, look, I have our newborn baby boy. Don't you want to snuggle with him?

And he's like, I have to focus, I have to get through this. And there were times where I would think, well, maybe he, you know, maybe this job is more important than me and Luke, or, you know, those. The enemy would put those thoughts in my mind that I had to fight against. And I thank the Lord so much for the amazing women He put in my life because those women came up and were like, No, like, I'm gonna come alongside you and help you think about the things that are true. You know, your husband loves you, you know that he.

Is prioritizing you and your family because of what he's doing and his hard work. And I think having those women in my life who were bold enough to tell me the hard truths really helped me now, even just have those correct mindset of, It's not this fantasized, oh my god Fireman husband comes home and he's like. You know, here I am, but I have to stop, and I'm here to serve him. And it's sometimes that. It is sometimes that.

It is that. It is. But I also have to be aware, and you know, unconditional love is putting him first and being like, Okay, he's coming home. I'm going to say hi. I don't, what's our home environment?

Is it chaotic? Is it crazy? I don't know what he just came home from. And sometimes he doesn't always share that with me. But it's being mindful of that.

And Knowing the things that if I call him and tell him that there's a problem at home, that's going to affect his mindset at work. And when he's at work, I want him to be able to stay focused.

So it's definitely something that's taken years to grow in, but it's definitely because of my village of strong women who are before me who have come alongside me in love. And you kind of become that for other people now, right? I mean, you. I hope so. Yes.

Yeah, and I mean, you are definitely a leader and an encourager of other wives. And when we come back from the break, we're going to talk about the fact that that little two-month-old baby Luke is also. A fireman now and following in his dad's footsteps precisely. But one of the things I also want to talk about when we come back, and this is going to be directed toward you, Sven, is. Going back to what you had said, which is just that exactly what you had said with first responders are often viewed as the strong ones, and they are.

I mean, that's why we call you guys when we're in distress and when our house is on fire. I'm going to call you guys, you know, because we want someone that is strong and brave and can handle. Can handle a stressful situation. But have you ever found that? But that identity makes it harder to admit when you do need some help, even if that just means like needing help processing something that you have witnessed or been part of.

So when we come back from the break, we're going to discuss that question. Join us again in a moment on Hope in the Morning. Do you have a testimony of hope? Perhaps you've walked through depression or addiction. Maybe you were diagnosed with a serious illness or have suffered the life-altering death of a loved one.

If you want to encourage others with your testimony and share the light of Jesus, visit hopeinthemorning.org and submit your story. Your story might be just what someone else needs to hear to find hope in their morning. Do you have a heart to comfort the hurting? Do you want to show the world that through Jesus Christ we can have hope in all circumstances?

Well, then we welcome you to visit hopeinthemorning.org and see how you can join us in these ministry endeavors. May you be encouraged by who our God is as you continue this episode of Hope in the Morning. To learn more, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. Have you ever struggled to comfort a grieving friend? John 11, 35 says, Jesus wept.

When Jesus was told by Mary and Martha that their brother Lazarus had died, Jesus wept. Today on Hope in the Morning, we invite you to learn what it looks like to weep with those who weep. Learn what it means to sit in the ashes and be encouraged that even in our morning, there's hope. His name is Jesus. Visit hopeinthemorning.org to learn more.

Oh, welcome back to Hope in the Morning. And what a joy it is to have with us today. Really special episode because it's Emily's cousin. But more than that, if you could believe it, the captain of the Los Angeles County, and I want that to sink in for a minute. Um Fire, you know, fighters, and oh my goodness, you know, like the first responders is what we're talking about in general.

But as I was. Just contemplating, I've lived in Los Angeles County three times in my life. And the thing we don't think about out here in North Carolina that you face. in a gigantic way, and there's even been movies made about it. Is there earthquakes?

And like, oh my goodness, to be a captain in what could be just. Because there are so many people in Los Angeles County, it's hard to even think about. It's hard to think about all the fire departments that would come into play all in the same moment. And then, wow, you go to bed every night. With some of those what-ifs on your mind, I was wondering your thoughts on that because that just grabs my attention.

I'm like, man. On earthquakes specifically? Is that what you're asking? In other words, you're carrying there, you're the captain of the Los Angeles County Fire Department, and a lot of different things because again, it's Los Angeles County. Obviously, like New York, you've got all sorts of terrorist things that are probably.

You know, the target for Los Angeles County. Then you have earthquakes that are, in other words, gigantic, horrific things could happen that would affect numerous of your departments all at the same moment. I mean, that's a lot of responsibility. It is. I'll be honest with you, I don't think about those things at night.

They don't keep me up. I would say, and I think I speak for a lot of firemen, is that When we are presented with a situation like an earthquake or these big things that seem overwhelming to people who don't do this. That's where we thrive. This is what we signed up to do. I'll just let you inside the circle for a second.

We didn't sign up to go on medical calls. Maybe some of the nerdy ones did, but most of us did not sign up for medical classes. That is a part of the job that we know exists, and it is more. Common, it is most of our calls are medical calls, but we didn't sign up for that. We signed up to go five fires.

We signed up to do. Physical stuff, right?

So this last year, we had hundreds of water rescues. And I mean, helicopters picking people out of their cars. Ropes across rivers, guys in the water. We had the Eaton fire, the Palisades fire, those were like career level, huge fires, and I was there. And you see this devastation, and you show up, and I'll never forget pulling on to I used to work for Pasadena.

And my son works there now. I pulled on to Lake Avenue, which is Central Pasadena. but it's still just this side, so it's LA County. as an engine, as the captain of the engine company, And there's an Aldi across from us just beginning to burn. There's a Bank of America, a bank full of money.

Just getting ready to burn and we have to leave it. We have to walk away from it. And it was devastation I've never seen before, but It's a target-rich environment for us to go do something to actually. implement help for somebody.

So we left those people. We left the bank, we left Aldi, we left all the commercial buildings because I would rather go to somebody's house and save somebody's stuff. The banks are insured. All these insured. In that level of devastation, who cares, right?

These are commercial buildings are going to get rebuilt. There's insurance money. There's like nobody's out of their house, but your photos, your kids' stuff, your trophies, your. Your clothes. I mean, all that stuff.

Just. Things that you haven't thought about, but if you lost your whole house right now. There are so many things you haven't even thought about that you value. That there's some sentimental value because somebody gave you this shirt or this necklace or this. This thing, right?

I know they're just stuff, I know it's just physical things, but when you lose it all. It's a lot.

So Uh We left the commercial buildings and we went to people's houses to do that. But anyway, back to answering your question: that's a time that we thrive. It's like we lock in and we get involved and we go. I don't want to say we look forward to that stuff. But when it happens anyway, that's where we want to be.

We want to be at the devastation. We want to be. involved In that stuff. International FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Team to that. They just got back from Colombia.

They went to Venezuela. They went to Haiti. They go to all these other countries who don't have resources to. search through rubble. There's a waiting list of our, and so it's just our department.

There's only two departments in the whole country that do this: it's us and Fairfax, Virginia. And there's a waiting list for people in our department that want to go on these trips because they want to be involved. They don't want to go on Stomach aches and stuff. You know, we do, and it's fine, and we take care of people, but. we thrive in that environment where we are needed.

That's absolutely amazing and really wonderful information to try to digest. The other thing that grabbed my attention. You had said that previously, years ago, the life expectancy of a firefighter was only five years, which has shocked me. What is it now? I don't know what it is, it's gotta be better, but it's not much better.

And that To be honest, that was the average.

So there were some making it to 10 and a lot making it to one year. And I've known personally a lot of people who died after a year of retirement. And is that because of the stress on your body or smoke inhalation over time? Or, like, do you know what it is that causes that? It's almost always cancer, but I don't know if the cancer is Officially from the job, or it's, I don't know.

I think that. That five-year average life expectancy was probably a lot of smoke and. Because they weren't as safe. They didn't use breathing apparatus. They weren't.

They just didn't really care. I mean a long time that hyper masculinity Type A, like, I don't need that stuff. I don't need your dust mask. I don't need your breather. I don't need all this stuff to do.

There were these tough guys that wanted to show how tough they are, so they grew a mustache, and that was their smoke filter. That was it. And they wore Rubber boots and a jacket over it. And now it's all they had. They had jeans, rubber boots, and a jacket.

If you watch Backdraft, that's what they wore back then. And so there was really no like They didn't really care. I think they viewed. those things as weakness.

So if you have to put a mask on to go fight a fire you're weak. And that mentality is changing as we go forward. And so now it's. It's not great. That mentality still exists, but It's more like, hey.

Watch out for yourself. Watch out for your family. There's definitely a bigger movement towards wellness, and that's even within the last. Five years. Where they're more like, hey, let's get you checked out every year.

And I mean within the last year they started doing these like I don't remember the name of the company that does these blood tests that test everything in your blood. And after the Palisades and the Eaton Fire, they were doing these trials where they were doing these huge. Panels of tests to see how much. poison and toxins and all this stuff and then they have some program to Filter it. I don't know.

So there's a big push for wellness. That we try to extend that life expectancy, and it's obviously a lot better. But I do think that it has a lot to do with the stress. I mean, if you think about he could be on for four days straight, and it's You know, you're sitting in a chair, and then all of a sudden you get a call, and your heart rate goes up, your adrenaline goes up, especially if it's a fire, and it's up and down, up and down, up and down. And if you're not getting sleep, Your body doesn't have that time to recover.

And so it's important when they come home that they Rest and recover, which isn't always the thing for this guy because he's got a lot of stuff to do. But. I think that that does play a big role in it as well. You know, it's interesting to me because, again, being your cousin, Sven, and growing up with you, I can say, like, you were never like the emotional cousin. You know, you were just kind of like the.

The Yeah, he's just always been more like the somber, cool, calm, and collected. Like, that's just been spent always. And, and so, you know. you know, being, being your little cousin, I can look at that now and be like, man. I look at this like this was a perfect job for you because you are able to just kind of stay calm and cool and collected under pressure all the time.

Would you say that that's pretty typical of the personality of men that are firefighters? And obviously, I understand women are firefighters too, but today, because you're a man, we're going to focus on the men who are firemen. Would you say that's pretty typical of their personalities? Uh yeah, it's not everybody, but it is typical. And I would say like we To answer your question, I guess, a little bit more directly.

My spectrum of somebody's cool, calm, collected is probably different than somebody who doesn't do this job because. I could present you with a whole bunch of people, and you would be like, Oh, yeah, these people are all cool, calm, and collected.

Well, I've seen them on fires, and they're not so cool, calm, and collected, but. Maybe to you they still are. But yes, so anyway by and large, yes, I think that that You either develop that Because you just sort of realize like This is gonna get fixed one way or the other. Our one of our little mottos is: every fire in the history of all fires has gone out. There's not a single fire left burning.

you know, that that hasn't gone out eventually. Every problem will be resolved. Every hazard will eventually be resolved.

So show up and don't make it worse. Step number one, don't make it worse.

So then you realize, well, This is gonna get fixed. And With very few exceptions, you didn't cause this problem. Right. But I didn't start this fire.

So I'm going to show up and help. and do everything I can with the understanding that the fire's gonna go out.

So let's not get my guys hurt. Let's not get ourselves hurt. Let's do the very best that we can. Let's be as aggressive and everything that we can. But in the end, It's gonna be fine.

I always joke around and tell him that he and the guys they have to be dead inside to do all the things that they do and see all the things they see and then go back to the station and be like, hey, who wants a hamburger? you know.

Well, I mean, I understand exactly what you're saying, Alicia, because again, you know, I know I left on that on that teaser before we went to break, and we are going to come back to that.

So you're going to want to listen to the whole podcast because that's what we're going to really get into all of these questions. But another question that we're going to get into when we come back into the podcast portion is kind of what you had talked about, Sven, that you signed up for fires. You didn't sign up. You didn't sign up for the car accidents necessarily. You didn't sign up to go, you know, help the elderly that fell out of their bed, get back in their bed.

Those weren't the things that you were like, that's the job for me. You know, you were like, I want to go fight the fires. I want to do. I want to do a very specific task. And yet, I know that some of the hardest calls that you have been called to are things like car crashes.

And, you know, I'm not going to ask you to relive anything because that's one of the things that. like you're saying Alicia is that That's how you continue in this job: is you kind of have to suppress those memories and let them go away. But I do want to talk when we come back from this break. I want to talk about how some of those calls have. Challenge your faith, even when you see some of the things that you have seen.

How has it made you ever question God? Why would you allow this? How do we live in such a fallen and broken world? Because I know that you've seen some horrific things that are hard to not take home. And I'm sure, even as you were raising young children, that it's hard not to see your own children.

You know, when you go to a call on a child, that sort of thing, and learning to separate, you know, your fears from your career.

So, I want to talk about those things when we come back. And we're also going to talk about how the church can serve you guys because that's important. You know, like we talked about before during the first segment, a lot of us go to church. And what a privilege it is to go to church with people that are first responders. I know at our church, we have quite a few, and I feel a little safer because I'm like, man, if someone, if something happens to someone, Everyone's a little bit more prepared here.

So then I would like to jump in with that first question and Um you know, I know Vulnerability is not your favorite thing, but if you can. Be a little bit vulnerable in this and just letting people know other men that are strong men. I mean, you can't be a weak man and be a fireman. You can't be a weak man and be a fire chief or a fire captain. And How have you seen that because you guys are viewed as the strong ones, does it ever make it harder?

For you to ask for help or to ever say, Man, I'm having a really hard time. Wrestling with what I saw or what I had to respond to on that call. Yeah.

And I think I think you had asked that, and I don't remember if I answered it fully, but yes, we are typically. Type A tough exterior Like she says, dead inside, but we're not. And it is hard. It it's it's hard because even amongst each other We have to Present that. Right, there is a social game here.

There's tons of games. The fire department is one game on top of another game. And when you start to understand the game, That's when you start to do well. And the game is not something that you guys would understand, or that I even really. Tell people that aren't in it.

That's sort of like our own. Thing in our circle but The games of the game. Are like you have to. I have to present to my crew, and these are my people. These are.

These are my extended family, and I use that like loosely. We're not quite the family that we used to be as a fire service, but. They are, and I would risk my life for these men because that's my job, and that's what I signed up for. but I still have to present a tough exterior to them. Because they have to feel secure that I am tough.

that I am tougher than them. That I'm tougher than the public, that I'm tougher than the fire, that I'm tough enough to stand up for what's right if that means discipline or something in the department. on a call. That I'm tough enough to say, no, you're not going to do that. No, you're not going to do this.

Whatever, we get assigned something that's not safe. I have to be tough enough to say, no, we're not doing that. That they have to know that I stand up to them, and in order for them to feel safe. For me to stand up for them, they have to at least think. that I'm tough.

And so there is, that's another one of our games, is like, and it's not a game that we talk about, it's just a social. Aspect of our job that I have to present strong, strength. two other captains. Or they don't respect me. And so it's almost like animal kingdom, right?

We are a bunch of animals in the in the fire department. That You have to present yourself as strong amongst your other type A people, or they don't respect you. Hmm. Yeah.

Well, in some ways, I mean, it reminds me a little bit of the family dynamic, too, is that as the father, You have to present strong in your family as well. And again, it's like I know your family and even our family, Brent and I talk all the time. We're like, how did we get all like alpha children? Like, we don't have a single beta in there. And I think you guys are very much the same, you have leaders for children.

And so you have to be a strong leader in your family, too. And I wonder, you know, with some of the things that you have seen and experienced, Sven. How have you seen your faith? help you carry those burdens differently than maybe if you didn't have faith. I don't know that it's a tangible thing.

I think that it's an underlying. understanding You know, these are like God has his plan. We live in a fallen world. Terrible things are going to happen to seemingly good people. And going back to kind of what you asked.

Before, I don't know if you Want to get to there right now, but um I don't I have never questioned God's plan or God's existence, or when I see terrible things happen to. I'll say innocent people. That I just have never had that feeling that I have an understanding. Even in my Bible study this morning, about why would good things happen or bad things happen to good people? And I don't really question that.

And there's a lot, it's deep, right? The reasons for that are deep and theological to me. Um But I don't question it. And I know God is real. And I know God's perfect.

And I know God's all powerful and all knowing. And He's great. And He's good. And He wants the best for us. But we do live in a fallen world ever since Adam and Eve sinned.

And some of that's collateral damage, and it's going to happen. I feel like when Bad things happen to children. I feel a I'll say a theological piece in the sense that I think that God saves the young ones, the really young ones. And There's nothing in it. I don't know, it it it becomes a deep conversation, but I've never questioned His existence or his goodness or anything based on seeing.

It's fun. These terrible things happen to people. And there is an aspect of being dead and separating and being callous. That's probably another Hard part, it's It's a double-edged sword. We can be callous so that we can operate and be effective.

But Now we're callous, and now it's. I don't have the compassion that maybe I need to for some of these people. I'll tell you right now, I don't have compassion for LA area homeless people. And that's a whole other discussion. These are chaotic, destructive.

Mean people. And that's not all of them, that's not everybody. I'm just generalizing my experience with. that but my heart becomes callous towards them. Um like it does Okay.

I have to put on a shield. Over my heart to operate and be effective, but then that shield also becomes it dulls your senses, it dulls your compassion, it dulls those things, you know.

So It's a balance. Is that something that's hard? And I'll pass this to you too, Alicia. Maybe you guys can even answer this together as a couple, because I think that this question would affect both of you. Is that something when you have to form Those calluses in order to protect yourself so that you can do your job efficiently without so much emotion involved.

Is it a hard thing then to chip away at those calluses so that they're not there for your family? Yeah.

Because I don't even try. I mean, for my family, um, Yes, the answer to your question is yes, it is difficult. Because I do try. I mean, I don't try to chip away at those calluses. Towards the rest of the world.

But for my family, yes. And it presents as maybe more. Apathy, or like, I don't care about their situation. You know, they're crying because of something, and I'm just like, You know, big deal. You know, like, whatever your little situation is, like, geez, Louise, are you seriously crying about this?

Yeah.

And then they go more, and it's not me, the kids.

Sometimes me. Usually the kids. And so it's like, and I have to understand, well, Their situation, their spectrum. What's really bad? Is different than mine.

You know, so yes, it is hard to Two. push past some of those calluses to have some compassion. For them or for anybody In the world. Not that I'm totally non-compassionate. I am.

We have some compassion, but Um But there is some level of calluser that needs that is constant battle. Mm-hmm.

So you uh to me what you the brilliance of your motto there. The wisdom of it is phenomenal. Like every fire ever has gone out. And oh, by the way, Jesus is coming back too.

So it's kind of like you could take this to the church. But then I loved. I loved what you said and I was just thinking, wow, as a pastor, you know. Every fire is always going to go out. Don't make it worse.

Don't get people hurt. And I was just thinking about what a profound. What a profound motto that would be. Use that. In your own church, or do you use that in your own family?

Because it's absolutely. Um Profound. Are you asking me, do I use that? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, like you have that. You have that kind of as your motto in everything. Like every fire, you know, every proverbial and literal fire is going to go out. And so don't sweat the small stuff per se and don't make it worse.

Yeah.

Uh No. I just thought. And I'm just being honest: that no, I don't use that at home because. I feel like I should have more control. And I feel like I have a control issue where I want to be able to control the things that I can control.

If we go to a big brush fire or a commercial building fire, I can't control that.

So I I'm fine with it. Hey, let's go. We don't run to fires. We walk to fires because, and that doesn't mean we don't do it with urgency, like, we are aggressive. I want a very aggressive.

Crew to go stop this emergency. I want to save your property, I want to save your people.

So that's our job. That's what we signed up for.

So don't get me wrong that we're We're slow to act, like, we will go fast. We actually do run to fire sometimes, but once we're there. We don't run anymore. Because I want to be calculated. I want to know.

And then it's also. Um It is kind of Relaxing to know. This is gonna go out. We're going to be fine here. And there's stress.

Don't get me wrong. There is stress. I've been in really, really bad situations where I was very stressed. Like, what did I just do? We're in a bad spot.

But when I come home, I feel like Every action I do should be effective, and I can change this, and I can fix this, and I can put this in a box, and I can make this be exactly what I want it to be.

So, should I have that mindset? 100%. Do I have that mindset? No, not a lot of the time. I try to be much better about What's that?

So you're human. Yes. And she's much better about having that mindset where I want to control these kids. I want to. I want to make them do this path, but they don't.

And so I get upset with them. But she's a lot better about Tempering that to say, like, that's going to be fine. It's their decision. It's their, you know. Especially as they get older.

And for anybody listening, and you think your toddlers are tough? I told your toddlers are adults.

Well, you guys have a pretty wide gamut. Of ages in your kids. Can you tell us real quick how old your kids are? Because you kind of had two, then you thought you were done. And then God said, no, you're not.

So, can you tell us how old your kids are? Yeah, she's much better with how old our kids are. Luke, our oldest, is twenty three and he's married. Hallie, our second, is twenty one, finishing her last year in college. And then Liam is fourteen and Hannah will be thirteen tomorrow.

So we have Freshman in high school, eighth grade, and then senior in college and I'm married. Your own adult. You know, Sven, it makes me think about, especially as, you know, stay-at-home mom to stay-at-home mom with Alicia, is that those are her fires. You know, and so she has seen they go out. It's okay.

They're going to go out. And I think the longer you are a parent, and especially when you're the stay-at-home parent, because Man, there are some days when I feel Sven, like you're saying, you felt in the middle of those fires, where I feel like, oh my goodness, like I'm totally screwing my children up. And how is this ever gonna resolve? And this is in a scary situation. I feel like I'm making it worse.

And then you can look back five years down the road and you're like, That fire went out. Um That's okay. God saw us through that fire. He still protected us. He still had a hedge of protection around our children.

And in the end, we're asked to be faithful for whatever the Lord has called us to, whether that is parenting or a career as a fireman or a first responder. And I think there's a lot to be said, too. And I think this is kind of what you were getting at, Robbie, as well: is that within our churches, you know, when we see someone in distress. Yes, our initial thought is, okay, I, or it should be. I'm going to run to them.

I'm going to see what I can do to help. But then, Sven, just as you were saying, with a physical fire. You don't stay in that panic mode. You have to calm yourself down. You have to enter into their suffering and you have to say, okay.

I'm going to be the peace that comes right now. I'm going to remind them of the goodness of God, of the faithfulness of the God, the fact that He will put this fire out. And it may seem overwhelming right now, and it may seem like it's overtaking you on every side, but He will be good and He will be faithful. And that's why we share these testimonies here. I just can't get over how.

Profound, this is. Just don't make it worse. Yeah, that's a big part too. Yeah.

You know, I have adult children, and you know what they say: small kids, small problems, big kids, big problems. You know, it's huge, right? But I think I was just sitting there like, man. Yes. This looks like a giant fire right now.

But probably what I'm doing is making it worse, right? And I can't tell you the number of things in my church because I'm a pastor as well. And like, oh my gosh, I made it worse. I made it worse. And I didn't have the.

Like you like you pointed out so well, Finn, that Um the discipline to slow down. And I was thinking about too. That when people come running to try to help you, like recently, we were in this horrible car accident. And everybody, of course, because I'm a public person. My phone blew up.

It went crazy with people trying to tell me how much they love me, which I'm very, very grateful for. And I love that personally. But it really hurt my kids because I couldn't even touch my phone because I was in the hospital. And my daughter comes into my hospital room holding up my phone. She goes, Dad.

What do I do with this if I And Like, man, you know, and again, these people couldn't be more wonderful, but they were making it worse. And they didn't know.

Well, and I think that happens again, like, even with the book, Hope in the Morning, that's why we did it. Because sometimes we run into other people's proverbial fires and we make it worse. We say things that we think, oh, I'm being so wise and profound right now. And let me give you this verse of wisdom. And it's like, oh, please don't tell me that everything works out, you know, for the good of those who love God when my child just died, like not the right timing, you know.

And so it's learning how can we be, how can we be honey to those around us? And how can we be Job's friends before they opened their mouths? You know, how can we learn to sit with each other in the ashes, actually, and just say, you know what, this, this is hard. This is not, this is not what God wanted things to be. This is the result of the fall.

And I'm going to sit here with you. And I'm going to sit here in this suffering with you. Sven, as I was Getting ready for this interview, I just kept thinking about that. I actually kept thinking about the verse in John 15:13, I think it is, when it says, No greater love has man. than to give his life for a friend.

And I thought, you know, obviously that's referring to Christ, but it made me think of first responders too, because. You do make sacrifices, whether it is sacrificing time away from your family or sacrificing the fact that now you have a tough exterior that you have to have there when you're working. And then you have to break it down. You have to break down those walls consistently when you come home, which must be quite a challenge to go back and forth between that. And yet.

You say, and police officers say, and EMTs say, I'm willing to. Rush toward you in your suffering. And I'm willing to take on your suffering and try and do what I can. to either save your life or make your day better. it kind of made me made me wonder like what what being a firefighter and rushing in to the worst moments of many people's lives, like what has that taught you about simply showing up for somebody in suffering?

I don't know that I've ever thought about it that way, but I'll just start from the firefighting standpoint. Like I said, When people Took on this job. Most people. Um The Super Bowl of Firefighting is to save somebody from a burning building. That's what you want.

I'm not asking you. to catch your house on fire and be stuck in a building. But if that's the situation, We want that. And I can tell you who else wants that. For here, and again, all of this is my experience and Different fire departments act.

differently, but Uh R Cops, our sheriff's department. They want that.

So they will park. This is well known. They will park right in front of a burning house because they want to go save somebody from the fire. It is that important to them. It is a constant battle for us that we have to tell them: stop parking your police car in front of the house.

You need fire engines, not police cars, right? Like, no disrespect to anybody, but we need you guys away. We need you to keep. People away, like, this is our job. But they want that so bad.

That's their top. That's our top thing: is to go save somebody from a burning building, and we want that, and we will rush. As fast as we can without running. We're we'll run to that. Um A late jog.

I like it. Yeah.

It's like do no harm. Running on the fire ground equals Something bad's going to happen. You're going to fall. You're going to get hurt.

Now you've actually added to the problem.

Now you've done harm instead of showing up to help. Um How does that mentality? And just to finish off that thought, and I've told her this, and she understands because she is a great firewife. Not all women are. Most, I'll say, many of the women that we come in contact with, I would not describe as.

Super good firewives. It is a Learned. Position, and we're still learning, and we still have these conversations to this day. And we've been married for 24 years, and we've been doing this for probably 20 of those 24 years. Um I lost my train of thought.

The last point is because she understands this. That I signed up for this job. Nobody forced me into this job. Nobody forced me to be the captain of this. At this job.

That Part of that comes with the risk that I will die there. That's the worst, right? Um And She understands that and we try not to. Very difficult very much. Um I don't know why.

You talked about me not being emotional, and here I am. Hey, you know what? This is good. This is what we're here for. That is part of the job, and that could happen.

And that could be, I could die trying to save. A person? Hopefully not, but we put the most risk for the most reward.

So we'll put the most risk to go save a person. We will put some risk to go save your stuff. That's why we're on the roof of your house cutting holes in there, is to try to limit the amount of fire exposure.

So that we can save your stuff. That's why we put ourselves in front of a brush fire or a grass fire to save your house. And yes, we will risk our lives to a lesser extent. To save your stuff. But it is still a risk.

And I had two guys get burned, and I had to go to the burn center. because they put themselves in front of somebody's house and to try to save its house.

So she understands that's part of it. Um It's not like And this is, I'll let you in on another part of the inner circle. That We always say family first. Right. Oh, family first, family first, family first.

Well, yes, my family does come first. God, family, fire department, everything else. But That doesn't mean come home at all costs. That means if everything's fine at work and something happens here, hey, guys, I need to go home. My wife needs me for a second and then I'll come back or whatever.

If I need to take a day off because something happened here or whatever, if I need to take a vacation to go to Italy to recover, whatever it is, family comes first. But when I'm at work, That is my job, and that doesn't mean that. I might.

Now come home.

Well, you know. As you were describing, you know, talk about emotional, it almost had me crying, is thinking that here we are. what, six days from 9-11 or something along those lines. And those firefighters that were climbing those staircases right They were in their Super Bowl. They were doing what.

they felt God had called them to do. Yeah, a lot of them did not. They didn't make it home. And we have to. If that happens today.

They'll do the same thing. They're not going to change. They're not going to go, well, on 9-11, look what happened. They're going to do the same thing today that they did back then because that's the job that they signed up to do. They don't want to go die.

They're not purposely. entering into a situation where they're definitely going to die. But they are entering into a situation where it's likely. And it could happen. And it's there's a chance, and it's because That's what you signed up to do.

And as a as a wife of The first responder, like I always encourage the other wives of like, Look at that as an honor. You know, like that's a hard thing. I know that he. Swore an oath to this badge, to this job, and Part of keeping my thoughts captive, too, is also remembering what is true, and this is what the Lord has called them to do. If it's God's will and in His sovereignty that that happens, what an honor that I got to be.

Next to him to support him, and you can't. Think about like Oh, what's going to happen afterwards, or things like that? How can I live? It's like, wow, thank you, Lord, for giving me that honor and the privilege to support Him in this job and knowing that. That's God's plan for you, and He's going to give you that strength.

But you have to have that mindset as well. I know Without a doubt, and I would expect him. to go in after his guys. if something happened. I would expect him to go into that.

And If something happened in that, that is an honor. to be able to be his wife to support him in that. And I think that that's going back all the way to that.

Sort of that macho presentation that we have to have with each other, those men need to know that I would do that. Because otherwise, why would they follow you? Why would they follow my direction? Why would they do what I say to do if I'm not willing to also do that? If I'm not willing to die.

Again, not not like purposely. But If I'm not willing to risk it all, For their benefit. Then their wives don't trust me. They don't trust me.

So, the whole system falls apart. The only reason that we can go do These things, which I think a lot of people think are crazy. We don't. We think that they're calculated. We see them broken down more like a science.

And we for the most part have an idea like how far could I go in this fire before I burn. How far? How deep can I go in this water? How far can I go along this path before? I can't come back.

And we try everything not to do that. Trust me. We don't. We don't go into situations expecting, like, well, this is it, boys. See you later.

Let's go. We don't do that. But the whole system falls apart. If no one can trust their leaders and no one can trust their Brothers and their sisters, like you're gonna be there for me if something goes bad, right?

Well, yeah.

So we will. How do I transition that to Other relationships, I think that the mentality continues on But I don't, I didn't until you asked this question, I didn't see a direct correlation, but. I think it's like um What were we talking about?

Something else. We were talking about earlier where the mentality is there. Or the about. But your identity. Yeah, or like knowing that, like, why do good things happen to or bad things happen to good people and do I question my faith, I don't because the mentality carries on.

And so it's just an overarching. Mentality that if that person needs something. that I will go. Serve that person. That's meaningful.

much more difficult. Because that's more emotional, relational. That's That's more that's her strong point. Whereas immediately it's like Like our pastor says, don't come to me for counseling. I'm just going to tell you to stop it.

But that's me. I will tell you, what's your problem, man? Stop. Yeah, yeah. And why?

You know, it's very objective. You your grandfather was like that. And we want to fix your problem. And when you don't Do what we, the solution that we presented, it's like, what's your problem? Yeah.

We just don't use a solution, you know. Doesn't work for everyone. I was going to plug in there real quick for those that are listening. Your pastor is actually Todd Smith, which is one of our shepherds in the valleys. And he has said that on here before.

He's like, you know, I don't make the greatest counselor because I just say, suck it up, stop sinning, stop doing that. But what you were saying, Sven, reminds me so much. It reminds me, first of all, of Christ as our example, the fact that as believers, and you see this, you see this even more so in the global church than you do maybe right now in America, although I think it's coming. Is that you see the example of Christ? You see where Christ said, I was willing to die for you because I loved you.

I was willing to redeem all of your sorrow through my death and my sacrifice. And then you see where the apostles came behind him and they were martyrs. They said, This was true. What God said about who Jesus was and Jesus raising was absolutely true, and I will die for it. And it paves this way for other Christians around the world to look at them and say, Okay.

They were willing to die for this. They were willing to die for the truth. There have been. Believers around the world who have died for other believers. You know, they have sacrificed themselves to not give up information about where other believers are hiding or how they're conducting church, that sort of thing.

And so it reminded me of that, but it also reminded me so much of. Just how the church ought to function, and how we really try to encourage the church to function here on Hope in the Morning, which is. Be aware of what is going on in other people's lives. Look out for those fires in their lives and be willing to sacrifice yourself. And, you know, it's not the sacrifice of life that you guys often face, Sven, but it is a sacrifice of time, which in American culture is huge.

You know, how many of us set aside time in our schedule and say, you know, I'm going to purposefully leave three hours a week where I have nothing in case somebody needs me to serve them, in case somebody needs me to bring them a meal, in case they need me to come get their children, they need a hospital visit, whatever it may be. But it makes me think, are we being vigilant in the church? To have our eyes not focus on ourselves, but focus on our brothers and sisters, just like you, Sven, you focus on the men that are under you. Those are your men to protect. When you guys are out on the job, you are making decisions to protect their lives ultimately.

And so, not only are they trusting you, their wives are trusting you, their children are trusting you to say: if my husband is in trouble, will you help him? Will you rescue him? And we need that in the church. We need to look at one another and say, you know what?

So-and-so is in trouble. I will come and I will sit with you. I will pray with you. I will pray over you. I will be faithful to you.

Just like you're not going to leave those men behind in the fit of a raging fire. You would never do that. And we should not do that as believers either. I wanted to pivot a little bit, going back to what you were saying as far as like, you know, that when you go on a call, it could cost you your life. You both are aware of that.

And I think as parents, sometimes Sometimes it's almost easier to balance that weight on our shoulders than it is to balance the weight of. This could cost my child their life. And so I want to kind of pivot a little bit to the fact that. That sweet little two-month-old boy. Who, you know, he'll probably kill me when I say this, but Moosey, who we always called Moosey because his mama would put Moose in his hair.

And he was just a cute school thing. And now he's a big old 23-year-old man. I wonder. How has that affected in any way or has it? The way you view the risks of the job now that your son.

It has followed in your footsteps. I I think that I have had these thoughts. I've had these conversations. We had one of our guys, not my guy, but. one of our guys around us get burned pretty badly on a fire.

And I remember thinking, Here's this new guy. That got burned. He didn't do anything wrong. But Here's a captain who's supposed to be right behind him. And here's this new guy who You're not born with these skills, right?

So you have to be in fires to understand this is unsafe. Right. And so it takes some time and some experience. That captain should have had that experience. And I don't think that he did.

And he put him in a bad spot. And this poor kid thinking, Captain told me. I'm gonna go here and I'm gonna do this and he got burned. Pretty badly. And I remember that was right when Luke had finished the academy.

And I thought, These guys better be better captains than that. Because here's my son. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So Uh I don't think about it. It doesn't It doesn't concern me really. It doesn't like I don't lose sleep about it. I don't Worry about it. And for any firemen that might also be listening, I'm not trying to say that our job is inherently always dangerous.

It's very rarely dangerous, actually. The fires are not. As common. The situations where we have to make those life or death decisions. Are very infrequent.

So it's not like every day, every time the bell goes off, it's like, oh my gosh, this could be the last one. It's not. And honestly. It's a little bit of you see what the text is and you're like, ugh. My goodness, you really called nine-one-one for this?

Yeah.

Again, my experience in where I am, it's not a super nice area of LA County. It's the busiest. It's the busiest area in all of LA County Fire Department. And that's not because there's so many fires. We do have a lot of fires, but it's busy because people call 911 for silly things.

It's just a fact of life.

So Just to be clear. Just'cause the bell goes off, we don't always think like this could be the end. Like that is super rare that we're presented to those situations, but there is an underlying mindset that. Every fire, every condition, we have to have this mindset that we're going to operate. even if that means putting ourselves at risk.

Yeah.

So I don't know. Does that answer the question that With Luke that I'm not worried about him necessarily. I mean, I think he's a smart kid. I think he works for a good department with a lot of very smart people. that I think are going to put him in a keep him safe and But I did feel the weight of that.

Leadership when I put in that perspective, that now here's this other captain who I have no control over. I don't know who this person is. I don't have any say any of that. I don't know what calls he goes on. Different fire departments were like Night and day.

We don't I don't interact with Pasadena Fire Department unless we're Well, you know, like on a big fire, but Um We're completely separate.

So I just have to trust that. He's going to be in a good position and do good things, but also have that underlying mindset. Hey son, you've signed up for this. Yeah, nobody forced you to do this, and I try to tell every new person that because we get a lot of people who. I'll say the last 10 years, we get a lot of new people who.

didn't set out to do this. They didn't really consider this job. There's people who didn't know we worked 24-hour shifts. I mean, shame on our recruiting people that you have. People in the academy now that didn't even know we worked 24-hour shifts, like, kind of didn't know what the job was about.

So, you get some. A guy who was a barista on a Tuesday, and he's a recruit on Wednesday, and he's your firefighter on four months from now. That's your guy. Yeah.

So that those those guys take a lot more training and a lot more Upbringing And I tried to tell all of them that and say, listen, you signed up for this job.

So let's make sure you understand what this job is. And I definitely told this to Luke several times. Um This job could cost you your life. This job could cost you a lot. And it will be very difficult on your marriage.

It'll be very difficult on your Livelihood, you'll make money. Money won't be a problem. You can always work in overtime, you can always make more money, but there are so many other problems out there that it's going to present that you just have to navigate. It can be great. But Understand what it is.

Understand what you signed up for, and don't. Shirk those responsibilities? Just to save yourself. Right. Don't and that's not just saving your life in a In a fire, life or death situation, that's.

Don't Shirk your responsibilities at the kitchen table, at the station. Just to save yourself. At home. Like you have to separate that. That is another, that is a sacrifice that we have to make, and that's a sacrifice that she has to make.

That That's what you signed up for. That's what she signed up for. She was there when we made this decision that I'm going to be a fireman, that's going to be my career. That I'm not going to be there when the house catches on fire. I hope your guys' house never catches on fire, but minded, I wasn't there.

Yeah was probably the most Stressful situation I've ever been in in my whole life. was when my house is on fire. Or my garage is on fire if the house is on fire, whatever. But that's my garage out there with all your fun toys, like the most fun things you guys have, we're all in there.

So. That's a sacrifice that everybody makes when they get this job. And I want, I make sure I'm the captain, I get to say whatever I want, and I make sure every new person understands you will make sacrifices. And they're the. What that sacrifice is exactly is a broad spectrum of things, but understand what they are, understand how to navigate them.

And don't Don't try to just save yourself. Don't ever try to just save yourself. You have to be responsible. For the people around you, not just the captain, but you know, we're brothers and sisters down there. Are you going to leave him or her in the fire and run away just to go save yourself?

How are you going to live with that?

So you have to have that mindset that This isn't just about me now. We are a team, we are a family, we are a group. Leave no man behind. Mentality. Right that Um Yeah, so don't just try to save yourself.

And I was kind of thought about this, and I didn't really even think about this, about how profound what I said earlier was. About if you try to save your life, you'll lose it. and how we so value our physical life. as Christians and as humans and whatever, which is natural, but Are you willing to lose your life? Physically, or like you said.

In time and in resources and in whatever, or do we have a mindset as Christians? I'm willing to lose my life because my real life. Is eternal and it's in heaven.

So Value this one less, value this physical thing less, and look at all the disciples. They all lost their lives. And so And we're all going to lose our lives. Todd Smith says, nobody makes it out of this life. Alive.

Yeah.

You're not getting out of here alive, off this earth.

So Do we value our life and then Name your thing, right? Your comfort, your resources, your time, your money, your stuff, your property, your whatever. Do we value that stuff too much that we're now so selfish? That we can't sacrifice that for somebody else. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think that's a great perspective. And I wanted to throw in there real quick, too, because it was crossing my mind as we were talking about Luke that here we had talked about how you've kind of always just been this close to the chest, strong. Um, quiet guy, like really growing up, you were just more the quiet guy, and and yet Luke is actually very different. Luke is very tender-hearted. Not that you're not tender-hearted, Sven, but you know what I mean?

Like, he's just a more emotional kid, he's not dead inside, he's not, you're not dead inside. We have established that. But Luke, Luke has always had a very tender heart. And Luke has always been more, and not in a bad way by any means, but a more emotional kid, very just. He is more of an emotive kid.

And so it made me think about the fact that, you know, he and his new wife, A, I think that you and Luke probably offer unique strengths to the same job because you guys are different in those areas. But also, it makes me think about the fact that he and Tristan will probably face different challenges than you and Alicia do as a married couple. And although they will still be. Challenges. You know, we've talked to other, we've talked to widows actually here that were married to firemen and the challenges that they had faced.

But they're different. You know, when you have someone that is more emotional and maybe is going to Carry some of those things a little bit closer to his heart. They may hurt him in a different way. And It just it's interesting to me because Alicia, you know, as Sven was saying that you Are you a great firewife? And I can attest to the fact that, you know, having known you, I guess I've known you for like 25 years because I knew you when you were dating, but you are a very special person.

Like you're a very positive person, you're a very get her done, like you're very capable. And at the same time, I think you know God's word very well, and you aim to apply that in your own life and in the lives of your children. And I can just see where Sven has a wife that he can trust when he's gone, he trusts you to. Raise the children when he's gone for days at a time and put out those family fires that are there. Put out the regular fire in your garage, whatever it might be.

But you, you're a very capable person, but you also, I just have seen in you over the years where you have this outlook of. God is good, and we're going to get through it, and we're going to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, and we're going to just suck it up and get through it. And I think that there's a lot to learn from you for other firewives as far as like building that resilience. But it's not a resilience that's rooted in yourself. It's a resilience that really is rooted in your identity in Christ, even more so than your identity as a fire wife.

And I think what a neat opportunity that God is giving you to now pour into your daughter-in-law. And say, hey, Tristan, these are ways that we can trust the Lord and unique ways to trust the Lord. And as we close up this episode, I do wanna ask two quick questions that hopefully we can kind of somewhat. Tied together. But one is, I wanted to know what one or two pieces of advice would you guys give to other couples that are fighting for their marriage too, you know, trying to keep their marriage alive on a consistent basis.

And then after we cover that one, I want to talk about what are three ways that the church can come along, the families of first responders, and minister to them as you guys consistently minister to us. You want me to start? Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you keep your own fire alive, Sven? What was the first question?

So, how do you and Alisa, how do you guys make sure that you're keeping your marriage strong, even with some of the challenges that come from the fire life? What would you encourage?

So, we have always said. That Spouse comes first. And we're in a time where I think it's very popular that children come first. And that doesn't mean to sacrifice your children, but it does mean that. Maybe you need to put the children secondary to your spouse.

And that goes along with everything else too. You gotta put some other stuff secondary, including yourself. And It's almost like instead of going 50-50 in marriage, go 100%, 100%. and be willing to go the full 100% and say, Hey, if you need me for this thing. I will take off work.

I will do this. I will make sacrifice for you. I will make time for you. I will not go hang out in the garage today. I will.

Do the thing that you want to do, or vice versa. And It shows your spouse when sometimes you have to start that sacrifice without expectation of them. returning it. And so then when your spouse says that for you, you're like, oh.

Well, then all of a sudden, now there's this like, whoa, she just taken care of me, and now I'm going to take care of you. And then the opposite can happen, right? And then we get into this selfish mindset where it's like, well, she didn't do this for me, so I'm not going to do this for her. And then you spiral downwards. Um we've been through different Marriage Counseling books?

Are they counseling? I don't know, marriage books, you know, marriage. whatever. Things that we've been through, and I think we've learned a lot through there about that. Like, um, love and respect, love and respect was probably the best one, the latest, and the best one.

That You have to, the men want to see respect, and the women want to be loved on a super basic. level. But if you can kind of stick to that. Then you You have to put aside yourself and your desires sometimes and show your spouse that you care for them and you care for their needs and you will take care of them. And you need to do it, in my opinion, you need to do it in a way.

That caters to to that person.

So, I don't necessarily need her to show what she considers loving all the time. To me, that's yes, I want that, but that's not. That's not really speaking my language, right? And she doesn't always need what I consider that like hyper respect Obviously, there needs to be love, there needs to be respect on both sides, but It's different for each one of us. That's why it's love and respect.

It's more. Love for the women, it's more respect for the men.

So you need to speak that language. When you are making those sacrifices.

So, make that for the women, make that sacrifice to be more respectful, to be. to be the helper, to show them, like, hey, I'm here to help you. I'm not here to serve myself. And then you go out there and go make the money. That's been a a discussion for 24 years from us.

Like, am I just the provider? I just come and I provide and you just spend the money and then that's it. And obviously that's not the case, but So And then on the other side, like show that you're willing to sacrifice your money, your time for the men to be loving, be romantic, go do a thing, go on a vacation, go out to dinner, go. Get a babysitter for the kids and take your wife to dinner. Because those kids are only going to be there for a while.

And then when they're gone, then what do you have?

So that foundation needs to be with the Lord. with your spouse and those two things should coincide. At the same time, And then your kids can come after that. They can be a close. We'll call it a third.

And be willing to put the kids aside, to put the kids to bed and go hang out with your wife. And I think something too that I would encourage young firewives who really don't know what they're signing up for. They could say they do, they could say, My dad was a first responder, I know all about it. It's like it's different when it's your husband. And as young women, you fantasize this, oh, I'm married and it's going to be romance and everything's going to be wonderful.

Reality, marriage is a beautiful gift from God, but it's also very refining. And then, when you throw in the job of being the wife of a first responder, where you can have these plans and they get messed up or they get taken away. You have to remember to To sacrifice that. And that's just another addition. And I would tell these young women, like, Hold everything with an open hand and look at like.

Have your husband come home and have no expectations. If he comes home and sweeps you off your feet and is dad of the year, husband of the day, wonderful. But there also are times that that might not happen because of. What he experienced the night before, or the lack of sleep, or whatever it may be. Create a home, create a space where he's going from a job where he is on, he's focused on what he's doing and calculating fires, calculating this, making sure his guys are safe.

Let this be his safe place. Don't come like Don't, he doesn't want to walk in the door, and you're like, Oh my gosh, these kids are so annoying. Here, it's your turn. I've just been on this whole time, and he's like, What the heck have I been doing? You have to have that mindset and to find strong.

Christian women who To pour into your life, but also find those women who. Who understands the job, whose husbands who are years ahead of you, whose husbands have they've done this for years because they're going to understand those nights when you're, you know, you're laying in bed 90% of the time alone. And that's just, it is what it is. You know, don't get too comfortable sleeping in the middle of the bed because he does come home and you're like, oh, I have to scoot over. Um But you have to take all what the world's expectation is in your mind as a young woman, as a woman, even.

And the romanticized thing of all of it, and look at it as like, okay, this is what the Lord has called me to be as a wife, and I'm a firewife. And God created Eve to be a helper. How am I helping? How am I serving my family when he comes home? And if he's not as emotionally connected with our kids, you know, and they're just like, oh, dad did this so me by.

And I'm like, hey, listen, like, Dad has truth. Like, let's think about this. Dad loves you. He wants to be there. He can't be there.

It's okay. And just helping like. Understanding, and I'm more emotional, and being able to empathize and comfort them, but also. Teach them because I've had to teach myself: let's stop. What do we know is true?

Dad loves you. He's not mad at you. What do we like? Focus on these things. God are.

God has given dad this job and it's harder and he's not going to be at your performance, but he wishes he could be there. But thank, let's thank the Lord that daddy's out there so that we can live here, that we can play volleyball, you can play football, you can do all these sports because he's providing for that. And if he can come on the engine and watch, he's going to be there. But don't get caught up in what the world is like, oh, your parents need to be at everything. You have to, you know, and I think.

As you grow in a family and grow in a marriage, it's It's Unconditional love of putting each other first and guarding your mind as a young. Wife in general, even just a fire wife, too. But you have to guard your mind. You have to think about what is true. And the Lord is so gracious and gives us His word that is full of that.

That is full, like. We have That The instructions.

Someone was saying it's basic information before leaving earth is like the acronym for Bible. And it's like God is given, He's so loving, He's given this to us.

So, when we feel anxious, when we feel like our husband's being distant, we feel we can go to God's word, and even as the church can look at You know, different situations in the body that have these fires. And Sven was said earlier: you know, we rush this fire, but I slow down because I. I think about all the tools I have to make decisions. We need to do the same, and as the body, we can go alongside someone, but be first in God's word. What has God called us to be as a brother and sister in Christ?

And how do we serve that? We have the tools, don't be so quick to just, oh, it's okay, like everything's gonna God works all things together for good, and just spouting out all these things. It's like, no, we're to come alongside those who are mourning, we are to weep with those who are weeping, rejoice with those who are rejoicing. We have the basic outline, and just slowing down and looking to Christ first, and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us. How to serve.

um other people in the body. How, what would you say from each of you as one way that you think? The church could serve a first responding family. In a tangible way. I think Acknowledging um Just having like a support, almost like a support group, but acknowledging that this is a different life.

Even as far as like the guys being able to have A group or a Bible study or something where they all can relate to different. Maybe not exact same situations, but ways that they can talk and encourage each other because they're like, oh man, I've been there. I've thought that. I'm not alone in that thinking. And same with the wives and having a support group of other first-responding wives getting together.

And you have this new wife who's like, I'm home alone. I can't get out. I have all these kids. My husband's gone. And it's like, sweetie, I've been there.

Let me encourage you. And giving a place. For that to happen, and where there's safety in that and encouragement in that, I think that's important. I would 100% agree that there is a stress level on me if I feel like she's not being taken care of at home or she has a problem at home that is. More stress on me than the calls we go on.

Just to know like There's a problem at home, and I'm not there to fix it.

So, if I know that my family is being taken care of, or even the, The social needs, right? The emotional, social needs where I'm gone for three, four, five, six days at a time. But she has people, she's not just there home alone or there with just like now, there is a lot alone time because the kids are in school and the two older ones are gone so. Um if there's emotional, spiritual, relational. Provisions there.

From other people. That we have, I think we have a great support group. We have one of our greatest lives next door. And so that's very convenient because that could be even nine o'clock at night, and she's coming up to. Come hang out or whatever.

And so I feel like she is taken care of, but not everybody is. And especially the new ones that are like, oh my goodness, what did we sign up for? Like, when are you coming home? And for us, I don't see it that way because when I go to work, I'm busy the whole time. My plate is full.

I have tons of activities ahead of me. And so I don't even see that it's a time warp for me. I left on a Tuesday, I'm not coming home till Saturday. And I was busy the whole time. I'm just.

Going through life, right? But Maybe at home it's not that way. There's the quietness in the morning, there's quietness, not really quiet in the morning here, but. Um Quietness at night. The kids went to bed and now it's like And I had that when she was gone.

It was just me and the kids for a week. And I had a little bit of that feeling where it was like, Now, what do I do? Like, I guess I'll watch TV, or I don't know.

So I think to have that support of Just relationship, you know, just come hang out, let's have coffee, whatever it is that she needs emotionally or relationally that I can't be there for. than to know that somebody There's a group of people that oops. There's a group of people there to to be supportive. Um helps. For me, I think for the guys.

If it's something, and again, this is just my viewpoint. If it's something that's going to. Be a time commitment. that's going to probably not be super helpful. Because our little Our life exists in Windows, and I have a little window of time home.

So right now I'm on a little window at Time Home, and then I got these, the window closes, and then I have a little window over here. And so, right now, with sports and stuff, I try to move those windows around as best I can to be able to go to the volleyball game, the football games, and the birthdays and But that means all the in-between. is a closed window.

So then Those are Valuable little nuggets of Time that have to be placed strategically to be there for the kids, to be there for her, to be there for these events, take time off because she went to Nashville with our older daughter.

So if it's going to be a time commitment, like I would not Say that, um Like a first responder's men's Bible study is going to be super well received with a lot of us.

Some people Sure. Um Just check in, just having something. We do Iron Sharpens Iron. I don't know if that's made it over to the East Coast, but. Essentially, it's just these Clans of guys and girls separately.

and you go through everyone's going through the same passage and then we talk about it. And it's it's on um Marco Polo.

Okay. It could be short. You could be on the way to work. And it still engages you. In In scripture and in with other believers.

And you can be vulnerable, and we are, and we have been vulnerable, and we've shed tears over Marco Polo to each other that we maybe would not share with the kitchen table because we know it's a safe place with other believers. Um Those kind of things are great. And then sometimes you do have to drag us out.

Sometimes you have to say, Hey, come on out. We're going to go, you know, have appetizers at this place. A simple. Easy thing because recently we got into a situation where it was just: I don't want to go out. I don't want to go anywhere.

She's home every day. I'm never home.

So if I get home, the last thing I want to do is pack up and, like, well, do you want to go hang out here? I'm like, Heavens no. The last place I want to go is away. Like, I just want to be home. But that's a situation where you're like, okay, she needs to be social, she needs to get out of here.

She's been here for every day for, you know, weeks and So it's like, okay, then we're going to go out. And then once you're there, it's great.

So sometimes the guys need to be. pulled out a little bit. And just to have that community. But not something where I have to show up there every Tuesday morning. That's rough.

Schedules are rough.

So if you make a every Tuesday thing, it's gonna be That difficult. That makes a lot of sense. And I mean, I want to say as we conclude this, I want to just say that I appreciate you guys so much giving us one of your windows because the people that are listening today, Sven just finished a 24-hour shift. And that's actually a shorter shift for you. That's, you know, a lot of times you're 48 hours plus.

And so we so appreciate that even, you know, after a full day of working, you came home and you're three hours earlier than we are here. Even my husband, he was like, do they realize that that's 845 in the morning? I said, they're morning people. They're going to be good. But we so appreciate you guys being willing to come on here and be vulnerable and talk about these things and the fact that, you know, these, this is a calling that.

It's a blessing to all of us that are able to call on you when we need it. But also, what a beautiful parallel we've been able to draw as far as where we should align spiritually with other people and helping to put out those proverbial fires as well and step into the ashes with one another.

So, Sven and Alicia, thank you so much for joining us today on Hope and Morning. Thank you. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting, equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved ones' honor, please visit hope in the morning.org. Your donation helps keep these stories of hope on the air and helps tangibly meet the needs of the hurting.