Is Grief Forever?

This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. Psalm 30 verse 5 poetically states that weeping may last for a night, but joy comes in the morning. Although this verse may seem to insinuate that sorrow and joy are completely separate, the reality for the suffering Christian is that they are often intertwined.

Today, I'm joined by Ben and Stephanie Messer to take an honest look at grief after the first year. Ben and Stephanie, thank you for joining me today. Thank you. Thank you. And I wanted to start off, Ben, if you would just kind of.

Walk our listeners through a brief account of the suffering that your family has experienced in the last couple of years. Last couple of years are going back to.

Well, the last several years, less, yeah.

So going back to uh the time when uh our son Jason Passed away. That was 2017. Jason was a 17-year-old. He's our middle son, and Just briefly about that day, he was going on a hiking trip with some friends from church at Hanging Rock State Park. and he had an accident and fell about sixty feet.

is in the hospital for about 27 days. and then passed away on march seventeenth of twenty seventeen. And since then we've uh struggled with um you know, the loss of our son, obviously, but we've also realized Just how important our relationship with the Lord is and what the Lord has. shown us and used uh this that we call a tragedy, but but he sees it as something he's not not surprised at all by. And he's taught us that, and he's taught us how to how to cope with things biblically.

and how to understand You know, the whole, the, the, the, the, really, as best we can on this side of heaven, how to understand the purposes of what he has allowed us to go through. And I think that other people have benefited from Uh from that uh from from from our experience uh you know just by you know just by uh listening to us and and um you know, hearing what we're telling them because we realize very quickly During that process, that it was not this whole thing. Was not about Jason, it was not about us, but it was about Christ. It was about what He has done for us and who. who we could turn to and you know the rock of uh the foundation that we that we stand on firmly.

as believers. Did you guys find when you were in that season right after Jason's accident Were there a lot of truths that you already had hidden in your heart that you were relying on, or did the church? really come rally around you and kind of remind you of those truths. Uh the both. both.

There there were uh truths that uh we knew about, I believe, You know, as believers, and that we clung to as believers. But Uh until you go through a fiery trial like that, you don't realize just how just how strong your faith is. And I think that's what the Lord showed us. He showed us just how. How much faith we did have, and not anything to do with us in any way.

But he showed us how much faith he has given us. as believers and So uh that was uh I think that was uh you know crucial and and us realizing okay we're We are going through a difficult time now, and you know, what are we going to do? Who are we going to turn to?

Well, the church was there from The very first hour that he was in the hospital, our church family was there. and other family members as well.

So we were supported in that way. Uh but uh the truths that we um clung to again. Like I said before, we were where now the Lord was revealing those to us in many ways. Uh as the time went on. as it became real And then, as the days went on, and we knew that Jason wasn't going to survive this.

Stephanie, how did you feel the nearness of the Lord during that particular season? Um Well, it was definitely the body. Um, I was um You know, of course, many, many women would come around me and They would minister to me and sometimes they would do things for me or sometimes they would just sit quietly. and wait for me to need something. And many you know, many times they wouldn't even say anything.

They were just there when I needed them. And it was just little things and I think as as a woman, you know, Uh I can think of one thing ver in ver uh, you know, in particular. Um I had decided You know, we had decided to move away from the home that we were in. to be closer to church and so that meant me taking a new job. Right after the death of Jason.

And I'll never forget that there were several women, and the job was a little bit harder than I expected. And so I remember feeling all of the grief. in that moment, in that time. And then, in addition to this new job that I had taken, and some women just sat and You know, I had so many days left of this job, you know, teaching school and Um The these women sat and wrote scripture verses for me on slips of paper. And they made it into a little chain.

And so I hung that chain in my home, and I would break off one, and it would be scripture. Um You know, just things like that were just Like a big help, and one of them was Psalm, I can't remember what Psalm it was, but it says, God is my helper. And so on a particularly very hard day, I just taped it, taped it on my desk and You know, just that was a good reminder to me that God is always there to be my helper in all times. I think a great takeaway for that for the listeners is that oftentimes we don't step in to be around people in their grief because we're so afraid we're gonna say the wrong thing. And so people they don't say anything.

But from what I gather from what you were just saying, one is that sometimes it's okay not to say anything. Just be present, be available for what is needed, give a hug, but also. The words of Scripture, that's what really penetrates our hearts. Like that's what really gives us hope. Because in the end, our words are meaningless.

We have nothing we have nothing that can console the pain of losing a child. But the Lord does. And even I was reading today in Hebrews 2 that it talks about how Jesus was acquainted with our suffering so that he would be able to be a high priest that was merciful and faithful and that he could not do those things for us if he had not been acquainted with our suffering. And so, you know, going forward, you know, fast-forwarding past a couple years, how would you say that the Lord's mercies were new? in the years to come.

New mercies every morning. every single morning, I think Yeah, he has shown us new mercies through Uh Through many things, you know, and it always starts at our church. And with the body of believers that we have at our church. and with the teaching that we have, you know, so there's You know, those mercies were shown, you know, that they started there and they and they. You know, it really just kind of springs forth from that, you know, because that's again, and I think I'll talk probably a lot about foundations.

Because again, when you're going through the pain and the sorrow and the grief. you oftentimes feel like I always kind of equate it to being in like in the deep, deep waters of the ocean and in the water, and you just have nothing to stand on. and you're just treading and treading and then all of a sudden there's maybe there's a There's There's the ocean floor, or there's a rock there that you can stand on. And now it's that relief of. Of not treading water anymore.

And so the church provided that for us and people just coming around us. you know, as time went on, we we we Yeah. people weren't It didn't bother me if people came around. uh too much And Stephanie and I are probably a little bit different in that she didn't want that as much. And that goes to the differences between men and women and how we grieve.

But um you know, those uh it it it started there and it just continued on and and So, you know, when I read my Bible every day that, you know, the Lord reveals new mercies then. And that again stems from a desire to know him more, which comes from my faith. Yeah. Did you guys both find that we have about a minute left here? Did you guys both find that The Lord strengthened your faith?

Through this trial. Cole of course without a doubt without a doubt. It it was especially when he was in the hospital. It just wasn't. a total reliance on the Lord.

And Because Eight. It it would Because the hospital stay was so up and down, like there would be days when it would be up and then days that it would be way down and You never knew what to expect. You know, after you know, after probably three or four days, we we had to go home and rest at night. And so then we would come back in the morning and You know, I felt, I never felt despair during those times, but it was just the reliance on the Lord. you know, especially during those four weeks that he was in the hospital.

And then You know the the Lord Just E each and every day, each and every morning, it would be a a soothing of you know, that grief and of that s that sharp you know Sense of loss. And You know, you just can't even describe it. I think there is some there's some things that are. just indescribable. And And it can only be ascribed to the Lord.

And so He did. He showed me, and there were things that he would bring into my life. that would you know, help me. Each and every day. to, um, you know, soothe that soothe that grief.

And I think to piggyback on that a little bit, Emily, uh the relationship that He strengthened our relationship together. And I know that's one of the things you wanted to talk about as well. Um because There were times when we were walking out of the hospital and I remember specifically saying to my wife, how thankful I was for her And that It's, you know, there were many times, although there were so many people around, and we had so much help from our church family, and even at times. We had to have a whole new waiting room. They had to give us a whole new waiting room.

We had so many people there. But There were times when I would look at her and say, You know, you and I are all we have. Yeah. You know, and that wasn't. It wasn't exclusive or saying that there's nothing else, obviously.

But when it came down to it, When at the end of the day, when I went home or we went away from the people, we were together. Yeah. And he strengthened our relationship in ways that would never have been strengthened without this trial.

Well, and you guys were experiencing the same loss. You guys were both experiencing the loss of a son that you had raised together. You shared those memories. You shared who he was. You both knew him better than anybody else who was surrounding you.

And here, you know, that, it's so important to be part of a good church because inevitably we are going to suffer. And you want to have those people come around you that can help lift you up, can help provide for your practical needs, your tangible needs. But at the end of the day, only the two of you. Suffer the same loss. And even I know, you know, for those that are listening, the Messer's story can be found in the book, Hope in the Morning.

And I know in the back of the book, you guys had talked about, and you're not the only people that had said this, but. Just saying that one of the things that is not helpful is comparing your loss to somebody else's. And that goes across the board because they're all different. You know, whether you've also lost a child, it's not the same child. It's not lost in the same manner.

But we can still be there and we can comfort each other. You know, as 2 Corinthians tells us, we can comfort one another with the comfort by which we've been comforted. And so, you know, You guys have lost a child, and I know, Stephanie, actually, that you have been a comfort to my mom. And even though you didn't know that you were, you know, she came crying to church one day and you came and hugged her. And she told me, she's like, you know, Stephanie said, I don't have any idea what you've been through.

And my mom was kind of shocked that you had said that because my mom was thinking, wow, they've been through. An immense loss. And so for her to feel like, I don't know what you're going through, but. Because you have been through it, I think that you had the wisdom to know you don't know. Like, we're all different.

We all grieve differently, our losses are different. But just that hug alone meant so much to her that you would see that she was having a hard time and you would go over and love her. And when the Lord takes us through deep sorrows, It puts a heart of empathy more in us, which is where Hope in the Morning comes in. We want those that maybe have not yet experienced those trials or maybe are not naturally prone to being empathetic to learn how do we comfort in a way that shows the hands and feet of Christ. How can we be the hands and feet of Christ?

So when we come back, we're going to talk about the differences between year one, year three, year five, just how grief changes and not only giving hope to those that are currently going through grief, but also helping to equip the church to know how do we continue to faithfully walk beside them.

So join us again in just a moment on Hope in the Morning. As a grief counselor with years of experience, I can testify that Hope in the Morning is one of the best resources out there. Out of all the grief books I've purchased and that others gave me, this is the book that has helped me the most. These stories don't showcase the individuals as heroes who battled and conquered the worst. The stories of Hope in the Morning provide a marvelous perspective, allowing the listener to focus on Christ rather than self.

These stories remind me of who my Savior is and that there is truly hope in the morning. To learn more, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. John 13, 35 says, By this, everyone will know that you are my disciples if you love one another. Do you know how to best love and serve your hurting brother or sister in Christ? Listen to Hope in the Morning and be equipped to offer the hope of Jesus to every hurting heart.

To learn more or to partner with our ministry, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. Yeah. Do you have a heart to comfort the hurting? Do you want to show the world that through Jesus Christ we can have hope in all circumstances?

Well, then we welcome you to visit hopeinthemorning.org and see how you can join us in these ministry endeavors. May you be encouraged by who our God is as you continue this episode of Hope in the Morning. To learn more, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. This poem is called Hope, and it's found in the book Hope in the Morning, where you can also find the Messer's complete story. Friend, let me sit with you in the ashes, and grieve with you in sorrow, As your heart mourns the loss of all the dreams you held for to morrow.

Cry upon my shoulder and let me bear your pain, until your heart is strengthened, so you can rise again. And when the morning comes please take my outstretched hand Look up at my face and find courage as you stand. I will replace your tears with joy, and give you grace and peace to cope. and I will fill all your to morrows with the sweetest gift of hope. And the verse that goes with that is Psalm 119, 114.

And it says, You are my hiding place and my shield. I hope in your word. We have so many promises from the Lord. He promises that He will never leave us or forsake us. He promises, as we mentioned earlier, that His mercies are new every morning.

And he promises that he is a compassionate and merciful high priest. He's not far removed. from our sorrows. And You know, oftentimes, I don't know if this is a cultural thing or where it stems from, but oftentimes people give a lot of focus to year one of grief. They think, oh, that's the first birthday, it's the first Christmas, it's the first anniversary of their passing.

But then over time, the cards, the text messages, the visits, the meals, they all dwindle off. And and you know, I mean, we all we all have busy lives. It's part of even just being American, unfortunately. But In your experience, how does grief change from year one? To where you're now.

now at several years removed from that.

Well, I can speak to that. I can. It definitely.

softens as the years go by. And It's not like like we've talked about, it's not as sharp as it is in that first year. You know, those special days still go by, and like I had said, you know, off air. I particularly had a hard time with his with Jason's birthday this year, and I think it Has to do with, you know, the time of life we're in, and our youngest son is. Um you know, getting older and so I think that's part of just being a mom.

But, um You know. The Lords Mercies are new every morning and every year. And so he just has a way of. you know, just helping you from year to year Um He just helps you to not have such a sharp pain of grief after a loss like that. and and he is so gracious to bring other things into your life.

That gives you joy. You know, in the first year, I was beginning to think. Am I ever going to just laugh again? Am I ever just going to have one of those. or, you know, I'm in the car and I'm just Singing and happy.

Yeah. I wondered if that would ever get there again. But it does. He does he brings things into your life. that give you that joy.

And so he he's so crate uh gracious and kind to do that. Yeah. Yeah, I think the there's certainly the that year one and two the pains are very sharp. Because you just still have the images in your mind of him in the hospital or. You know, the last time you saw him, or the funeral, or whatever it is.

So those images keep. It's kind of playing on repeat. Yeah. Uh over and over and then I think as Stephanie said, you know, as time goes on, you know, other things fill in those those uh Those blank spaces in your mind, or not blank spaces, but they fill in to where those sharp images are kind of gone. You never forget, obviously.

There's I don't I really think There's not one day, I mean, people say this a lot as cliche. Not one day goes by that I don't think about whatever. But th it is very true. uh th there's not one day that goes by that I don't think about my son. and the fact that he's not here.

But As time goes on, Yeah, the the when we still have uh times when um you know, the the memories will come up. It could be a song that you hear on the radio that Maybe he and I were working on something and we we listened to this to this song. It could be a um a um An image, it could be something popping up on social media. reminding you of of that and that will cause It'll cause a moment or a few moments of deep grief sometimes. And um You just deal with it and you get through it.

And it's actually a little refreshing. almost, because you you are able to release Some things, maybe, that have been building up, and you don't realize it. You know, so. I think that's actually a good thing. It is a good thing to kind of get that out.

And you might have to go and. And you know, in your quiet place at home or office or whatever, and deal with it. It's not bad. It can be. I told you before, Emily, that the pains can be.

Certainly dull. but they can be heavier. as time goes on. But they're certainly spread apart more, I believe. It's not a Not a daily thing that we're, you know, just this have this anguish daily.

We don't, we don't, or even weekly, we don't have it like that anymore. I think something that you just said, I think, is important. For people to understand too, because I've even noticed this with people I've been recently interacting with that are grieving, that sometimes believers do have a hard time allowing themselves to grieve deeply because they feel like there's something ungodly about that, they feel like it contradicts their trust in the Lord. But that's not biblical. You see men and women that loved the Lord that did grieve deeply because we're in a fallen world.

This is not how it's supposed to be. We're not supposed to have suffering and pain and death. That's a result of the fall and of sin. And these are consequences to sin, and sin is what separated us from God. You know, that's a sad thing.

That's a sad reminder for us. And it should be a sobering reminder. And there I I like to say that Deep grief is not an ungodly thing when we bring it to the feet of Jesus. Because we can bring it to Him. He knows it already.

We don't need to hide it and make it. Like we're doing just fine on days that we're not, but we can bring it to the Lord and say, Lord. You know my innermost being. You knit me together. You know every sorrow.

You know the silent tears that fall when there's just, there's not even words. And that, there are nights like that. I'm sure you guys experienced nights like that with Jason where you just didn't even have the words to pray. You know that through your tears, the Lord knows your heart. The Lord knows your thoughts.

He knows you intimately. And he cares about you. I mean, that's why he sent his son to be our redeemer, to redeem what had broken, redeem what had separated us from God. And So that reminder that that when we have those moments of Grief feeling heavier, as you said, that now it feels more heavy. There's nothing there's nothing wrong with crying with saying today's today's a hard day um And As a church, how can we best love those that are?

you know, five, ten Ten years Ten years out. You know, uh, I thought about that when we were Um before we came on and I don't You know, it's hard to answer that because I think the best way to answer that, Emily, is. Um Just be ready to listen. You know, when you know, because uh you know at church um Before our Sunday school class, I do the prayer request, and at times. right in front of, I don't know, 75 people.

Uh I feel a need to And it it'll be appropriate to what we're talking about or whatever, but I feel a need to maybe say something about Jason. You know, just so people know Just kind of have an idea of what we've gone through or whatever. But I don't want to do it all the time, obviously. I don't want to make it. uh a regular thing but When I do that, there's always someone that comes up and they ask.

And we've had so many new people in our church now that don't know and they weren't here nine years ago and or eight and a half years ago. And so I think uh the best thing the church can do is just be ready to listen because nobody Even family members don't they we don't we just don't just just talk about it regularly, you know. But there's going to be times like when we're going through those deep grief times where I might need to talk to a friend. Uh obviously I have my wife and we talk all the time. And if usually we'll actually even mention to each other, hey, you know, I heard this thing today and it reminded me of Jason.

We always do that. And we'll Kind of talk about it at the end of the day, but just be ready to listen. Yeah. You know, I think that's the biggest thing is. I would agree with that.

Because again, it's not on the forefront of anybody's mind. Yeah. Everyone has forgotten about it for the most part. Yeah. And.

Whereas in year one Someone would just see us, you know, they're going to come up to us. How are you doing? What's going on? What can I do for you? And things like that.

And I think that. While I think that I just have to say this because it is meaningful. People still. You know, certain people still text us around either his birthday or the time that he fell or His death, it's not that I'm expecting it, it's in fact when I do get one of those texts. I'm not expecting it, and I'm thinking, wow, Lord, thank you for that.

And, you know, just. And it it comes from people who are You know, in our church body and from outside of our church body, who are, you know. who are believers. And so Um you know, don't Don't discount those things. I know it's hard to keep track of some of those dates in your head.

But, you know, if it comes if it comes around to that time and you remember it and you can... you know, let that person know that you're thinking about them. It will be a blessing to them, even if you don't do it every year. Yeah. Well, and another thing on this note that actually I I thought about it just now as we were talking.

that helps me. since you know obviously since Jason's accident and his death. There have been several other things that have happened with people we know. And so when I'm reminded of how I was helped, and then I help someone in that way, whether it's sending a text message or just asking them how they're doing or whatever. That helps helps me.

I'm blessed by that. Not because I want someone to pat me on the back or anything, but just. Knowing that, okay, the Lord took me through a difficult time so that I could Because I always knew that We're going through this not again, not for us, not for. anything else but to glorify God. And I knew that Going through that time, one day I was going to help somebody else.

Whether it was one person or a hundred people. I don't know. What the Lord had in store for that. But when I realize, and the Lord reveals, okay, you're helping someone. It just, it's like it's again the hands and feet of Christ.

It's the body of Christ. Coming together and helping each other in that. Yeah, yeah. Kind of in reverse. You guys actually had a pretty big testimony while Jason was in the hospital.

I mean, you guys had a Facebook page and a pretty big testimony. And for those of you that are listening on the radio right now, tune in on Tuesday to our podcast because we're going to talk now about what that testimony was. And also, we're going to talk about a special verse that I remember everyone having that written on their hand when Jason was in the hospital.

So we're going to talk about that verse and we're going to continue our conversation about. Just how even a husband and wife can come alongside one another through those years of grief.

So, join us for the continuation of this episode on Hope in the Morning.

So, that was quick. I know, that first half hour does go so quick. That's why we extended it now because it's like no one, who can fit their story in in 30 minutes? I do remember very clearly you guys had the Facebook page that You guys were updating at some point, but then did you have somebody that kind of started taking over and doing the updates for you, or were you guys doing that all the time?

Okay. You were doing that.

Okay. We had someone that started it for us.

Okay. Jill Lagiar started it for us. Jill's one of those people that she just is a lover of people and such a good She just loves well, you know? She really does. And I just have to tell you, she was the one, she was really the one.

Hmm. There were so many people, you know, sort of talking to me and helping me, and she never imposed in that. She always just sat quietly and If I if I needed something that you know there was not somebody there for, then she was there. But even even in that, she was just sitting there. And I'll never forget that.

That's how she was for us too. Like, she was the one that, when we lost our baby, she called me and she was like, I'll take all the baby clothes back for you. You don't have to go and do that. And I knew that emotionally I couldn't do that and watched them check everything back in and stuff. And so, I mean, not only did she do that, but she came and she picked our kids up.

And, you know, they just were very, she and her mom both were just so intentional with the way they did things, but they did it in a quiet manner. And there's something really beautiful about that. Yeah, there's something so beautiful about that. It reminds me of the verse in the Bible that says, Don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing, because there was no pretenses of needing to get any sort of accolades or you know No recognition. for that.

As believers and truly being the hands and feet of Christ, that's how we want to serve one another, right? And actually, one of the other stories in the book, The Ironsides, I'll never forget what Kristen said to me because you know, I mean, with us, so many people came around, even from people that were authors from the book, came around us. And she had said that as believers, We are always either in a season of suffering or serving. And I thought, what a beautiful thing, because there are going to be seasons where you're suffering. Yeah.

And it's okay for you to. To let others serve you, and actually, there's a humility in that, which I'm sure you guys learned that to accept people either their prayers or their meals or driving new places. There's definitely humility in that because. we have to recognize that we have we have a weakness and that's why we have to swallow your pride yeah a lot of pride yeah to have um to have that uh to to to allow people to help you in that way yeah Because there's, you know, if you have a community around you and a body of believers around you. which we do.

And this is this has been said a lot. I don't know how people do it without it. Yeah, absolutely. But they do. you know and that's god's grace that's god's general grace for for um for for uh those who are Image bearers.

that but you know that coming around us and and and helping Um in a quiet manner like that. And that was it that was one of the things I wanted to I'm glad she brought it out because those who helped We noticed. Um Maybe didn't talk about it or anything, but I or at least I noticed anyway. those who were helping in that quiet manner. you know and not just And I hate to say this, you know, there's always some people, and you don't think it's intentional, but.

It seems that they want to help. Just, you know, and let everybody know about it. You know, and again. Whether it's church family or not, not really much church family. Everybody was pretty good about that.

But there's always those people. But then you just notice the people that are quiet. And um There was one, and we really didn't want to name names with this, but we did Jill's. We had to name Jill. They were in our care group, and she just kind of took over.

But there was one specific time. And this was still recorded, isn't it?

Okay. Jill's actually been mentioned before on other episodes because she's very helpful to a lot of people. I'm not going to mention her name, but there was. What there was one time where we um We were at the hospital And someone just brought us a jar of of nuts. Hmm.

It was they were like roasted nuts or remember that? candied nuts or whatever. Yeah. And We were so, I was so hungry, you know, and here's this jar. They just gave it to us and didn't say anything, just and.

It was just little things like that that just meant so much. Yeah. And, you know, it was just, but, but it was just people, and I think it's an intentional. Um Focus on Trying to figure out what your needs, the needs are that people have. Uh instead of just you know, doing things, you know.

Uh at random.

Well, and the needs are always different.

Something that I know that, again, Kristen Ironside had brought up in her story: that I would have never thought about this, but she said that people actually. Came alongside her and said, Let me go with you to help pick something for Annabelle to wear for the funeral. Let me go with you to pick clothes for you. Catherine, I won't say last names, but Catherine in the book, she, you know, she talked about how people offered to come over and help go through Hudson's clothes and things that. you know, I can just imagine as a mother our Painful and hard things to do, but to have somebody beside you that's willing to say, I'm just going to be here with you because I know it's hard.

But but I love what you had said, Ben, because There's such an intentionality with that that we need within the church. Like when you have relationships with people and you genuinely know people, you're not just there. Sitting there on Sunday, and then you go home and you never interact with people deeper than that. You actually get to know, you get to know them for one thing, because as you had mentioned, which I do want to talk about this, but you had mentioned about the fact that you two grieve differently. You have different personalities.

Most of us do, especially in marriage. And so, but when you know people, You know, more, like, are they the kind of person that they're gonna really want people around them, or are they the kind of people that like to be more private and like to be more, you know, as we say, close to the chest? There are godly people on both ends of that, you know. And like my grandfather was one of those people that just people gave him life, you know, he just loved to be around people. And then there are other people that you know that when they're suffering They just, they kind of need that softer, quieter place.

And. But as believers, if we're intentional with knowing the people that are within our church. you know better how to serve them because you know what their individual personalities are. And I'd like to go back before we forget about this, but what was the verse that was so pivotal with Jason? It was uh Romans 1.16.

For I'm not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God unto salvation. Uh and to r Um I'm getting nervous now. I'm trying to recite. And then the Gentile first.

I know this verse. Yeah, I remember it being written on all of our hands, and that was just a reminder not only to pray, but What what was the significance of that verse for both of you guys at that time?

Well Initially the significance was Jason had put it on his Instagram page. And Someone pointed it out to me when he was in the hospital and I didn't I had not seen it, you know, and I didn't realize it, but The significance of it was: okay, if he's put it on his Instagram page, then you know He was displaying that for the world to see. And so he had some. love for the Lord in his heart. And I mean We all want that for our kids if we're believers.

We want our kids, and I think I don't know that we pray for anything more in our lives. then our kids would know the Lord. And so when you see that, especially now he's at the end of his life. and he's on the doorstep of eternity. That's a comfort because we don't, unfortunately.

We none of us have None of us have written on our chest or our foreheads that we're believers, you know, so the Lord only knows our hearts. And um And then we don't know our kids' hearts. But we want to. And when we see things like that, it just gave us great comfort. that okay He was He was acknowledging.

Uh The Lord, and he was acknowledging a level of understanding of. of um of the Lord in his life.

Well, and I will say too, um You know, if I if I do have an opportunity to talk to Young people that you know are about that age and they keep you know, if the Lord is, you know, calling them, stirring their heart Don't put that day of salvation off. Don't You know, don't keep pushing it away because you don't know. When the Lord will require your life of you. And you You know, I remember I remember thinking that because the day that Jason walked out the door. You are completely, you have that's not anywhere near your mind.

And, you know, I had my head in the freezer getting dinner. pulling dinner out. And so I think What what I what it reminds me of and when I You know, when I think about that verse, I think Yeah. Just Be careful, because The Lord could require your life of you. tomorrow.

Yeah. And today is the day of salvation. Repent. believe in Jesus Christ so that you will spend an eternity with him in heaven. You know, the kids in our in our youth group at the time, I think that That's what happened to Jason was a wake-up call to a lot of them because they did realize that, wow.

The brevity of life, you know, none of us knows. Just like you said, none of us knows. I mean, you could leave, you could leave the studio and be in a car accident, you don't know, right? And so it's like, where are we at with the Lord each day? And And recognizing that our life is not our own.

You know, it has a purpose and. You know, so as we talk about this too, you know, we had discussed about the fact that. It is different as you go through grief with each person. Like, there's just, there's all kinds of different things, different factors with it. And yes, we are all.

We're believers, we love the Lord, we trust the Lord, but our personalities play a part too in the way that we grieve. Whether we're a man or a woman affects it. The relationship you had with the loved one affects your grief. Ben, I want to ask you: how did you. lead your family?

And I've asked this question to some other men before because it's so important. How did you lead your family during this grief while you yourself were also grieving?

Well Men and women certainly handle grief differently. And I don't think it's It's certainly a personality thing, but there's certainly a divide between men and women. especially a mother and a father losing a child. And I'll speak to that, obviously, because that's what happened with us. Um You know.

To start with at I'll just say the way I handled it was uh and looking back in retrospect Uh was that Um The Lord really drove me. And he I believe he did this so that I could leave my family. He drove me to just an unquenchable desire. for uh scripture. Reading.

and for reading good books. Uh of others who have lost loved ones or the Puritans or You know, whatever was there that was solid teaching, I wanted it. And I remember specifically, even like just little instances. like going when I w when we finally went back to church Um We were going through, one of our pastors was teaching on 1 John. and the assurance of salvation and all that 1 John has in it.

And I remember I I couldn't I didn't you know, we'd be there for an hour learning and and studying, and I didn't want to leave. I I could not get enough. Things were had f that I thought were important have faded away. And I was really, and it wasn't what I was doing, it was what the Lord was putting into me. uh through this trial.

Has given me this desire, this greater desire. to know him better and more deeply. And so that Was significant and how I led our family. Unfortunately, when you know we still have sin, And in my sinful self, at times I would um And you know, I'll I'll admit to this. Uh sometimes I would just want Everybody else, just to get over it, and let's move on with our life.

That was the other side that, you know, I'm not. I'm I'm not proud of that, but You know, we still are dealing with sin in our life, and we But uh and so If I could give advice on how to help, and I know you're probably going to talk about that in a minute, but I'll go ahead and jump into it: you know, how to help. The best way to help your wife, if you're a man and going through a trial like this, is. Is to be way more understanding than you think you should be to your wife. Because she needs She needs you know, that quiet time, that, that, that.

Yeah. more time of of of of Getting through this than probably you do as a man. as men we want to fix things. And you can't fix this. Right.

There's not a manual for it. There's not a. There's not a tool for it. Um but yeah, I I just um Um I wanted to pray more. I wanted to study more.

I wanted to lead my family in that way. I think that's the. the biggest uh memory I have of of those early The early times, right after the death. But what you just said is actually what crossed my mind. The second that you said.

that you Had moments of feeling like, can we all just get over it and move on with life? And it's not that you wanted to forget Jason, but exactly what you just said is what crossed my mind. That I think as for men, I think that that tends to almost be like a protection because you can't fix it. And so there's just sort of this like, okay, I can't fix it.

So I don't want to ruminate here because there's nothing I can do about it. And so I don't want to ruminate here. I just want to, I just want to move on because that's just, it is a stark difference between men and women. Like women, we ruminate on everything, right? And so, you know, I remember recently hearing someone, a man, talk about the differences between men and women.

And he was like, you know, there was a study done, and women were asked, you know, they were given 15 minutes of just silence. And it was like, what were you thinking about during that time? And the women were like, every conversation. I've had this past week. And he was like, not a single man.

We saw every conversation they had. But we as women do that. Like, we want those memories. We want to talk about. things like you know and men want to men want to fix it as a general you know generalization but what what was that like for you what was what was your grief like Well, I think it was definitely I think I don't know.

I when when you cry over Losing a child It is it is a different cry. It is a different I don't know where it comes from. It just comes from way down deep. And, you know, there were. many times when I would just be beside myself and, you know, he he was He was always there for me and he you know, he would just Hug me or hold me, and most of the time I was doing the right thing.

Just every once in a while. But very quickly, early, very early, he. I needed that leadership. I needed him to take that leadership role in especially while he was in the hospital and I I was just so thankful for that because Yeah. That allowed me just to you know Love on Jason when he was in the hospital, and then it allowed me to.

Grieve his, you know, passing because he did take that leadership role and, um, Um Very thankful for that. And So you know, I think as women sometimes Well, we do. We struggle to come under the leadership of our you know, That That is What happened in the beginning, you know, when Eve decided to do something that she shouldn't have done, you know.

So, but I just felt it was just such a natural thing for me to come under his leadership. Um you know, just to T And the Lord gave me a desire to lead. I mean, I had a And there was it was I didn't even think about it, you know. It was just I think as men, you know, if we, you know, we're seeking the Lord, we're seeking truth of Scripture. You know, we're going to have that desire.

We're going to have that natural desire to lead. And to um And to um To be the rock for our family, just like Christ is for us. In these times, you know, he's the foundation. And I definitely was like. weak.

I I just was weak. And so that Yeah.

Well, I think that that's another important reminder of why it is important to be part of a good church, a church that preaches God's word faithfully. You know, we have a wonderful church that I mean, the three of us, we all attend the same church, and They teach expositionally, and so they, or expositorily, and so they teach verse by verse just what the scripture says and teach us what that means. They rightly divide the word. And Without fail. We will Grieve according to our theology.

You know, if you believe that God is good, if you believe God is faithful, if you know His Word. You grieve differently than those that don't have hope, or those that don't have, as you were saying earlier, Ben, that rock to stand on when you're in those floodwaters. You know, being reminded, I think it's in Isaiah that says, when you go through deep waters, I am with you. And those are the things that if you're constantly under good teaching, That comes out in your suffering, but also In order for men to lead well, which is That's what we're called to as believers, right? For men to be the.

Kind of the cornerstone of our families, but they need to be poured into as well. Like, so as he ministers to you and to your children, he needs to be poured into by the men in the church. And it sounds like you were. It sounds like not only were you through the teaching at the church, but through men who came alongside you. And so they can kind of be.

the Aarons to your Moses, you know, where you're trying to uphold your family and they're helping hold the heavy load, you know, helping to sustain you. Absolutely. And I think, you know, the other thing, you know, we talk about what we what we learned going through this. I think we learned a Um just a deeper understanding of God's sovereignty. And You know, allowing us to go through this.

You know, you think. What's the old cliche, the question that everybody wants to know? Why do bad things happen to good people? Good things happen to bad people? Those are two questions.

And those are not questions that we uh can answer easily unless we know Christ, unless we know the Lord, Because there are no good people. Right. We are not good people, so Uh do I deserve to have my son die? I deserve worse. And you know, when I understand who's in charge, That I'm not in charge, that the Lord is in charge.

You know, and just, you know, even in Ephesians 1 here, he lays that out through 3 through 14. And He lays it out. you know, from the beginning of time. You know, he he, you know, Ephesians talks about where How he is, you know, we've been predestined. and and called to be believers.

And even in all those verses, the phrase in Him, in Him, in Him, are all in us. And when we're in Christ, when we're in Him, Uh we we don't despair. anything because we're You know, and again, going back to the question where you asked about us and our relationship. and how that grew. It grew because we look to Christ more, you know, we are looking to Christ more.

than we were before. You know, if I just look to her for help. without The foundation of Christ, and she looked to me for. Help without the foundation of Christ, we're going to be lacking. But with Christ as a foundation, and that we're looking to Him, both of us are looking to Him, we're desiring to know more about Him.

Um You know, it just allows us to be closer together. Yeah. Because the focus is not on ourselves anymore, it's on Christ. Yeah, I'm reminded also of that verse that says, Stop striving and know that I am God. And again, it reminds me of that imagery that you brought up of being in the ocean.

It's like you're just paddling away and you're kicking, and you're going to expend all of your energy doing that. You are. And likewise, you can't lean on somebody else that's next to you who also has no foundation to stand on. You have to have. a steady foundation to stand on and that is stop Striving, stop, cease striving.

Know that I am God. I am, I will be your rock, I will be your shelter. And as we conclude this episode, I hope that those that are listening will take away a couple of things today. One is that You don't know when your last day is. And so today is the day of salvation.

If you feel that calling from the Lord, today is the day of salvation. And, you know, to repent from your sins and to place your trust in Christ alone, that he is your rock. He will be that steady rock when the storms of life are battering you. He's your steady rock. He is the only firm foundation that we have.

Nothing else will keep us afloat. When you face a trial like the loss of a child, nothing else is going to anchor you like Christ will. And so I hope that those of you that are listening that are going through grief right now, that you will see that there is hope, that Christ is our hope. He is a sure and steady foundation. That he will be there for you in those tears in the night, that he will love you.

He is patient. He is merciful. And for those of you that are listening, that are walking alongside people that are grieving. Know that grief lasts a lifetime, you know, in the same way that love lasts a lifetime. Grief is love in new form.

And so I hope that you will go forth and be the hands and feet of Christ, and that you will love well as He has loved you well. Join us again next week on Hope and Love. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting. Equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor, please visit hopeinthemorning.org.

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