40 Minutes: Loss of an Infant

Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. Hope is a strong and confident expectation. We all know the feeling of hoping that something will come to fruition just to be met with disappointment. Our earthly hopes often leave us wanting.

This is why Romans 5, 1 through 5 is such an encouraging passage. It says, Therefore, we've been justified by faith. We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into his grace in which we stand. and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint. because God's love had been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who's been given to us. Friends, when we suffer, if our hope is placed in Christ, we will not be disappointed. Regardless of the outcome of our situation, the Holy Spirit will be our comforter, and He will cause our hope to abound. A sure and steady hope rooted not in wishful thinking but in the immutable character of God and confident expectation of His promises.

This is the hope that you will stand witness to today as I'm joined by Brandon and Kristen Ironside. Thanks for joining me today, you guys. Thank you. Thanks for having us.

So, in 2019, you guys were expecting your second baby. You already had a little boy, and you were expecting your second baby. Can you take us into your 18-week appointment? Yeah, so the text had been a textbook pregnancy up until then. We were 18 weeks along and going in for a very routine anatomy scan, just excited to find out the gender.

And that day, the doctors told us after a lot of scans kind of all across town, they said that our child, who we would come to find out, was a girl later, and we would come to name Annabelle later on, but our child was developing with no functioning kidneys.

So rather than having two functioning kidneys like we should, one was completely absent and the other one was non-functioning. And so the doctor just looked at us with tears in her eyes and she said, I'm so sorry to have to tell you this, but this is lethal to the baby. And that's you know when our world turned upside down. But she explained that you know, as long as Annabelle was in the womb, she could grow and thrive and live, but she was incompatible with life outside the womb.

So should she be born alive? Stillbirth was a slight possibility, but should she be born alive? We would likely have minutes to hours with her on this earth before she would pass.

So, when you say that stillbirth was a slight possibility, did they expect her to be born alive or did they expect her to pass in the womb? I think I think they probably expected her to be born alive. They didn't really give us a whole lot of expectations. I think they were maybe just trying to be careful not to say that this is what will happen or not. But a result of not having kidneys is there's absolutely no amniotic fluid.

And so that's what clued off the technician that something's wrong, there's no fluid. And from what they explained to us, because of that, simply the baby can compress like the umbilical cord or certain things to cut off blood supply and then result in a stillbirth. And so they let us know that that was a possibility. But particularly as time went by, we started to settle into this might just be a full-term pregnancy. And the other reason that they suspected potential stillbirth is there was already these complications, but she was actually breached for the majority of the pregnancy and would have a very difficult time flipping around with the lack of amniotic fluid.

Okay.

So did you guys have to fight at all? Like was termination something that was brought to Okay. to the forefront of doctors to you guys. I remember three specific times in those first couple of weeks that they brought it up. I will say that, to the doctor's credit, none of them were pushy.

We didn't feel like anyone was pushing us in that direction. Maybe they even felt a little bit of relief that we didn't go that direction. But there were a few times in those early weeks that they said, you know, this is an option. And, you know, that was not an option for us. It was a incredibly overwhelming to think of Okay, I'm saying yes to this life, and that means this really long road of what am I going to go through?

But you know, I'm just grateful that I had a position on the sanctity of life, and you know, and that we're both believers and understand what the Lord has created. And that made that decision very easy. Brandon, it's easier, I think, especially for us women, to put ourselves in Kristen's position and think of what. What devastation that news is to receive, yet alone knowing that you have months left to carry that child. What was that like for you as a father?

Um I think Like I think uh this is our second pregnancy, but I think even with the first one there's it just seems so unreal at first and until you feel that first like kick through her belly then it's like oh wow this becomes much more real then when you see the you know the baby for the first time you hold in your arms like it's it's so then it becomes so tangible and real. And so I had already had that experience and then going to These ultra sounds. You're like, oh, like, this is the first time we're going to see this baby. And I just. I think um It was a little bit surreal because, like, you're seeing those black and white images, but and then.

It just doesn't feel I haven't had it for Weeks inside me feeling like it, you know, it's changing your life. And every time you go, you're, you, you know, I don't feel good this morning. Like, you're your, your mind is always on it. And so. it was kind of like, oh, here's this is the first chance you're gonna get to see pictures or see it moving on the screen and it's gonna become real and all of a sudden they're telling you, um, you know, this is a fatal diagnosis, sorry, you're not gonna this baby's not gonna live.

And it it was almost like a crash. In that you just You're like, I was just getting prepared for this, and now you're telling me that.

Now, how do I prepare? And how do you. Put that all together and know what you're supposed to do, how I'm supposed to respond. I can't do anything anyway for the next five months. If it was a normal pregnancy, you're always kind of like left a little helpless and watching.

And so now you're like, oh, now I'm with helpless and I can't do anything to fix it either. Yeah.

So I think that was part of the struggle, too. He's just like, I literally can't do. I can't change the outcome in this. Yeah, that that's an interesting way to put it, I think that that makes a lot of sense is that husbands It takes longer to connect. I think that that's just normal.

You know, I know my husband and I have had the same thing, and it's like, as a mom, you become the mom to that child the second you see those two pink lines. You change everything you eat, you change everything, you know, because you're like, okay, I've got this little life growing inside of me. And for the husbands, oftentimes, at least in our case, like the connection actually doesn't really come until birth, really. And so it can be a hard thing to know how to comfort your wife in those situations. Because the men's Prerogative kind of is to fix it.

That's what they want to do, and you can't. You can't fix these situations. And so that becomes a heartbreak in and of itself. Kristen, what was it like for you knowing that you had still five months to carry Annabelle? I think when I look back, I see very much kind of this battle between like my flesh and the spirit, you know, where there was so many things to be scared of, especially in those first few weeks.

I think the timeline of it all was the most overwhelming thing. You know, if someone said, okay, this is going to happen today, you just, all right, this is, it's just going to happen to you, and it just happens. But knowing that I have to live in anticipation of this was incredibly overwhelming. And so I think. The timeline of this is like five months away, that was probably my biggest fear: is just how to survive that long.

But just all the fears of, you know, this child who I'm already 18 weeks along, you're kind of to the point where you're starting to feel kicks and everything, and she's just going to get bigger. I'm going to have a greater connection. I'm going to feel stronger because I'm going to, you know, more pregnancy symptoms and all those things, only to lose her. And you just feel like you're working towards this prize that is going to be taken away. And, you know, even just the public of People in the grocery store.

Oh, congratulations. You know, what are you having? And knowing that this is something I'm going to lose.

So I think I had a lot of fears with everything I would be experiencing over the next few months. But at the same time, you know, we have the Holy Spirit. And as soon as those fears came, I mean, I look back and I'm like, yeah, he was constantly giving us peace and comfort through every single scenario. You know, I look back at every single fear. I see how God was answering prayers and bringing us through those.

Brandon, with the fears that she was going to struggle with a lot, especially knowing that she was going to get those comments from people, she was going to have to go through labor and delivery. How were you able to kind of come alongside her and help remind her of truth and help? help her mind dwell on what is true what is what is true of God's nature and the fact that He is good and He does good. Yeah.

And and I think it like we look back now, it was a few years ago, and so we kind of can compress some of the details, but I think the first week or so we didn't really even realize it was gonna be the Like at first, it was like, is this gonna be like a miscarriage? Like, do we even bother telling anybody? Like, you know, like, maybe this will just be done by next week. And I think us and going through a lot of doctors' visits and talking with all the different types of doctors. kind of then started to have this clearer picture like, oh man, this is gonna we're gonna have to live through this pregnancy and then give birth and and And then that's when it changed from: well, what do we have to do right now?

What decisions do we need to make? Do we need to talk to other specialists? Is there other experimental things could we do? Like, we just trying to figure out what that was. That stuff.

kind of we had to work through those. Decisions or things first, and then started to realize, oh, God has timed this in a way that there's nothing we can do. He if He's if it's His um desire for this baby to be born alive, then He it'll that'll be His Prerogative: if it's if for her to live a long time, that'll be, you know, he'll either provide us with the doctors that would have some sort of miraculous. uh procedure that they can kind of do. Um but I think it was a couple of weeks for us to start realizing, oh, some of those fears and decisions.

that are today's problems are not going to happen. And now we have to kind of live, go back to living our normal lives for these, and you have to kind of go in and out of your normal day-to-day routine. And and uh Okay. live through a full pregnancy or or potentially one. And I think some of we just had to trust Go, okay.

We know from God's word that he is faithful and that he is to protect us and to not give us anything more than we can handle, and that he's going to, that he is in control of all these details. It's not an accident. You know, he's sovereign, and he has intended this for us, for our good, but for his glory. And so we need to. you know, we have today In a way that would honor him today and recognize that the fears for what's going to happen tomorrow are not today's.

They can't debilitate us today. Yeah.

And just. not hide from it, but to um to embrace it and and uh to make sure we or just kind of honoring him today and getting through this. this week and um Just kind of take it one day at a time. Yeah, I think Elizabeth Elliott is the one that had made a statement once saying: don't face tomorrow's. Worries.

Don't face tomorrow's trials with the grace of today because you don't have the grace for tomorrow yet. That's why the Lord's mercies are new every morning because our trials are new every day. And that's what causes us to have things like fear and anxiety is when we Worry about what might be, what could be, and we don't have the grace yet to face what those could be. You guys also did a written story. Kristen, you wrote your story in the book, Hope in the Morning.

It, in my opinion, is one of the most well-written stories. It just, it's one that will just. I mean, the way that you pour your heart out, the way you word things, It puts you right there in your shoes. And one of the things I thought was so beautiful that you guys did is you took advantage of the time that you did have Annabelle.

So when we come back from the break, we're going to talk about what you did while Annabelle was still alive in your womb and what the day looked like when you got to meet her.

So join us in just a moment on Hope in the Morning. As a grief counselor with years of experience, I can testify that Hope in the Morning is one of the best resources out there. Out of all the grief books I've purchased and that others gave me, this is the book that has helped me the most. These stories don't showcase the individuals as heroes who battled and conquered the worst. The stories of hope in the morning provide a marvelous perspective, allowing the listener to focus on Christ rather than self.

These stories remind me of who my Savior is and that there is truly hope in the morning. To learn more, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. John 13, 35 says, By this, everyone will know that you are my disciples if you love one another. Do you know how to best love and serve your hurting brother or sister in Christ? Listen to Hope in the Morning and be equipped to offer the hope of Jesus to every hurting heart.

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I'm joined today with Brandon and Kristen Ironside, and we are talking about their precious little girl Annabelle. They did not have very much time with here at Earthside, but they have the hope that they will see her again in glory. And we were talking about, we were getting ready to talk about the fact that you guys made some very purposeful choices of ways that you would make memories with her while she was still in your womb. Can you tell us what some of those were? Yeah, I think once it became clear that this was going to be likely a full-term pregnancy, we knew we had a few months and we just said, all right, this is our time with her.

We never knew if we were going to meet her alive.

So while she was in the womb. this is our time. And so kind of anything that our family did, we simply just tried to commemorate as her being a part of that.

So, you know, if Valentine's Day passed, I'd take a little bump picture with a little balloon and, you know, this is Valentine's Day or birthdays and, you know, just holidays and things that went by. You know, you take bump photos and this is the time that we had Annabelle with us for that year's, you know, holiday. And then if we just did anything, whether that was the zoo, going to church, going to the mall, like this was my time that I could, you know, be at the mall with my girl, whatever. If we went to the beach, you know, you take a picture and so that we can look back. And, you know, I've got all these little bump photos of like, that was our time with Annabelle.

And, you know, and there's things that, you know, now I have three boys and, you know, I didn't know that I would have only. Boys going forward, but you know, I thought if this is my only daughter, like this is the time that I want to spend with her and just do girly things, you know, have a coffee date. And so I even went to a wedding dress shop once and you know, just looked at wedding dresses and found a really pretty one. And we took a picture, you know, with my bump. And so that I can say, you know, yeah, I went wedding dress shopping with my girl.

So we did what we could to, you know, commemorate that. I think that's one of the neatest things that you did, honestly. And I, you know, I know that. You like, maybe you would have thought, like, oh, I don't know what people are going to think when I'm in there going wedding, going wedding, we're shopping at the bump, right? Um, not where you envision yourself, right, when you're 18, but um.

I think what a neat thing that you thought those things through, that the Lord put that even on your heart, that you would think, okay, I'm going to make these memories the way that I can, the way that the Lord has facilitated for me to make these memories. And what were your prayers like for Annabelle while she was still alive in your womb, for both of you? What were your prayers like? I mean, ultimately, we prayed for a miracle. You know, you're depending on what the doctors are telling you, and we believe that the, you know.

We had a lot of appointments, a lot of scans, and we knew that, okay, God was giving us this wisdom so that we can prepare. But they could be wrong. And, you know, God can work a miracle. And so we ultimately prayed, you know, maybe, maybe she'll be okay. Maybe something will happen.

But we knew that God was also leading us in this direction to prepare for her death. And so probably our most fervent prayer was just simply that we would get to meet her alive, knowing stillbirth was a possibility. You know, whether we had... two minutes, two hours, two days, whatever that was, we prayed that we would get a little bit of time where we could hold her and still have her be alive.

So that was probably the biggest thing we prayed for. And then just prayed that our hearts would submit to the Lord's will and that God would glorify himself through this process with her life. Did you find that for both of you, that that was... Almost like a tug of war with the Lord. I would imagine it would almost be a daily thing where it's submitting to Him and having these fears and submitting them to Him.

Was that? Yeah, I mean, I think it was a it was a process. You know, I thought a lot about Jesus' prayer in the garden through that pregnancy of how Jesus is asking for this cup to be taken from him. It's like I I didn't want this trial in my life. I just, I wanted it all to go away so badly, you know, or I wanted her to live.

But, you know, Jesus says, not my will but yours be done. And I feel like it was just a process of getting to that point. And I just, you know, said, Lord, allow me to pray that type of prayer. Like, let me have such a submissive heart that I can say that myself. And I couldn't do that on day one, but I think that as the Lord showed us, like, this is where this is heading.

You know, chances are we're gonna lose her very soon after she's born. And I just continually prayed: like, help me to submit to that until I could get to a point where, Lord, if your will is to take her life, let it be done and let that be for your glory. And that wasn't an overnight thing. But yeah, it was, I think, a daily submission to his will until he could change our heart to say that. And just like asking to.

him to like Prepare us for what you're going to ask us to go through.

Okay.

I think was was important too, 'cause sometimes like you said earlier, like we're there's so much that our imagination could could throw out, it's like it could be like this, it could be like that. And and he's not going to ask us to go through all of those. It's just going to take us through one path. But Some of those paths are harder, or you know, before they've happened, some of them seem like they would be worse than others. And just whatever that is, just praying that He would help prepare us for that.

I think something that was hard too is that. It's I think any time God gives you something good and then takes it away, that's that's always um extra challenging and it kind of like Um Always made me kind of think of like what Abraham must have felt like to have to sacrifice Isaac. Because he didn't, we know the end of the story. Yeah.

Even when, you know, if you read it for the first time, you don't, but like, we've all grown up with that. Oh, yeah, Isaac, oh, here, he's taken up the mountain. But like, he didn't know that, and he just knew he was going to, you know, have to have to give this up. And he'd waited how many years for it. And it was such an answer to prayer, and it's such a good thing.

And it's it's hard when God asks us to give Back something that is that is good, or that's been a gift, or that's been an answer to prayer. And I think, yeah, some of the prayers will just, you know, make us. Help us be willing to or help me be willing to to go through what you're gonna you know, ask us to go through. Yeah, I think, you know, especially when we pray things like Making our hearts soft. Like praying that the Lord would use it to soften us and not to harden us.

Because that can sometimes be the result of trials too. You see it, you see people walk through things, and instead of it. Creating a gentle spirit in them, it causes a heart of bitterness. And that's not at all what we want to be as believers. As believers, we want to trust the Lord with even that which is most precious to us, which is Annabelle.

I know that you guys had a wonderful gift of having family pictures taken by a friend. And that afternoon, you went into labor, right? Was it the afternoon or that morning? That morning. It was a Sunday morning and I was out before church.

I said, Brandon, I feel uncomfortable. I wonder if this is labor. I hope not. You know, I was only 33 weeks at the time. And so, you know, as the day progressed, by the time we were driving home from church, I was kind of secretly timing it on my phone and going, this is every five minutes.

But we had maternity photos scheduled for that afternoon, and that was really important for me to get those maternity photos because we knew that these were kind of the only professional photos we would have with her alive, or at least very likely. And so I texted her, I said, I don't know if I'm going to make it, but I might be in labor.

So we still got those photos done, but I was definitely in labor at the time. But yeah, the labor progressed that evening.

So you get to the hospital and walk us through your delivery. Um, yeah, so um, we went in the middle of the night and um You know, it progressed pretty quickly. And I think what struck me, you know, this is the second time I was giving birth. The first time was normal, and you had the hustle and bustle of a delivery room. And what struck me with Annabelle was just the silence of the room, especially as it got close to her birth.

Some doctors and nurses just kind of lined the wall, and I don't know if they were standing there in just solidarity or what, but there was just all these people around, and it was silent. We had taken off heartbeat monitors for Annabelle, and that was a decision based on we knew we couldn't save her. And so, you know, rather than knowing whether she's in distress or something's happening, let's give birth and just see what the Lord has for her.

So it was extremely quiet and just a very somber atmosphere. And at 7.45 a.m., Annabelle was born on April 29th, 2019. And when I saw the doctors hold her, you know, we didn't know whether she would be alive or not. And I just said, is she alive? And the doctor placed her on my chest and they said yes.

And that was I mean, that was such a huge answer to prayer. You know, that's what we'd been praying for. And it was obvious that our time would be pretty limited. And so you just look at your daughter and you try to fit in a lifetime of love in whatever time you have and you don't know how long that is. And so we held her and we talked to her and we spoke to her, said her name and we, with the help of some nurses, we sang happy birthday to her and just tried to take her in and watch her move and change and cry.

She even cried, which a result of not having kidneys is the lungs are severely underdeveloped as well.

So the fact that she was strong enough at 33 weeks to cry for a few minutes was pretty extraordinary as well.

So we just loved the time that we had with her. And then she began to slow. And so the doctors would, you know, check on her heartbeat here and there. And And then she passed, and it was just peaceful and quiet. And then we just kind of embraced, and it just felt like you're collapsing after this long race.

You know, it was like. It's it's finished. And so it it was a really special time. We had forty minutes with her and um but all she knew was, you know, our love and um so it was it was beautiful. Yeah.

You know, one of the things that you say in your story as you're talking about finishing the race that I think is important for listeners to hear as well is that Annabelle is not she's not a finished chapter of your life. I mean, today today's a testament to that, right? Is that here you are years later, and we're talking about Annabelle, and we're talking about her life. You're it's in the book, and it's another little book has been written about her. Like her life, her life is not a finished chapter, and nor will that ever be something that is completely closed in your guys's life.

That will always be a part of who you are, and grief changes us. And if we, if we place it in the Lord's hands, if we place our grief in the Lord's hands, it can change us to become more Christ-like, which is what we want. What speaking of silence, you talk about how silent the room was. How can silence On the part of other people around you, be a painful thing. When you announce that your child has this condition or that your child passed away, What wounds are caused by silence of others?

I mean, I think if you know that someone is going through something really hard, when someone doesn't acknowledge that, it can come across as uncaring. If you know for sure this person knows, you know, someone just died yesterday and they're just standing there, yeah, it just comes across really uncaring. I think what made silence more impactful in this situation was. Particularly for me, I'm carrying my child. And when you see someone that's six, seven, eight months pregnant, you see that they're pregnant every time you see them.

And then the next time you see them and they're not pregnant, you know that they just had their baby. And so I felt like everywhere I went, I was literally carrying around my child that's going to die and bringing a visual reminder of what we were walking through. And so I think that in those cases, the silence was... it was maybe even more hurtful because here I am, I'm carrying this child. It's very obvious what we're walking through.

And then so it just can come across as uncaring. Yeah, I completely agree. And I think a lot of reason why people do that is because they just, they don't know what to say. Which to me is part of a big part of why we come up with Hope in the Morning is because we want people to feel more equipped with what they should say or what they can say that is actually helpful. Because so many people are afraid that go, I don't want to say the wrong thing.

So they say nothing. But that is equally hurtful. you say each of you is something that is helpful to say in those situations. I think making I think um us living through this situation helped me experience it first hand and has I hope I have changed in in in good ways to just be more willing to acknowledge when people are going through pain and just Um not discounting that even Saying something, just hey, you know, I remember that your mom died last year. I don't remember what time it was, but I was just thinking of that today.

And when was that? You know, just acknowledging those little things actually means a lot to that person who's going through it. Because I definitely used to think, I don't know how to bring it up. I know they're hurting, and we can use humor sometimes to diffuse things or distract people. But living through a situation like that, you go like, man, I'm thinking of it all the time.

Not that you're being overwhelmed and just say you can't function and you're necessarily, but when you're going through that grief, like it's a part of your day many times an hour. And the fact that somebody else um, would bring that up and and acknowledge it is actually is um Is encouraging, especially if they're a believer, but like they could, it's encouraging and it's helpful to have to know that other people are remembering or they're hurting for you or they're praying for you. Yeah.

I I think it's I think it's really valuable to just address that um with with someone who's going through grief. Rather than ignore it. Yeah.

Kristen, what was something that was said to you that you remember that was comforting to you or along the lines of what they had said? Um I don't know if there's like a specific thing that someone said, but I think it was, um, When you see how they acted over the course of those months, it was just simply the people that were engaging in that grief with you that was helpful. Rather than just kind of dismissing it, you know, or maybe I acknowledge it, but let's let's move past that. It was the people that were showing up and saying, hey, let's go grab coffee or head to a play date with the boys. And hey, how's your grief doing?

And, you know, what do you like? You know, how's the next appointment, you know, gonna look? And, you know, just kind of walking you through and allowing you to talk about these things that are happening. Yeah, not being afraid to step in. Yeah.

You know, it's been several years now since she passed away. Do you guys still, and maybe this is funny to even ask because here you are, but do you guys still enjoy talking about Annabelle? Do you enjoy when people talk to you about Annabelle and bring her up? I do, yeah. She's still very much a part of our family.

You know, we have pictures of her at our house and, you know, our boys talk about her and, you know, it's hilarious.

Sometimes they'll, if they need a little girl character and they're pirates, they'll, you know, oh, you know, the Annabelle's that pirate or whatever.

So they include her, but, you know, we celebrate her birthday. And so she's part of our family conversation. That doesn't have to be every day, but it is very natural in our household and, you know, with our parents. And so when other people are still willing to acknowledge that, yeah, there is one more child I'm not seeing and just talk about it. It doesn't have to be weird or a big deal, but just acknowledge it for whatever made them think of that, I think is helpful because it's natural in our house.

So it's great when it's natural for others. Yeah, you know, and we only have a minute left on the radio portion, but I want to say to those of you that are listening on the radio, we're going to continue this conversation for the podcast portion and the YouTube.

So I strongly recommend that on Tuesday you go and listen either to the podcast or go to YouTube. And look us up on Hope in the Morning backstage to finish the conversation. But as we finish the radio portion, you say at the conclusion of your story that you have learned to rejoice in your suffering. What does that mean? You know, I think what I've what I've started to realize over this time is.

The way that I rejoice and I hope in life is independent of my circumstances. You know, my hope and my joy in life. comes through Christ's work on the cross. And that gives me hope and I have joy in that hope. And regardless of what is happening on a good day or a bad day, that's my joy and my hope.

And so when I suffer, that joy and that hope doesn't go away. And if anything, I think what is amazing is about walking through a season of suffering is that it magnifies that joy and that hope. It becomes that much greater. You know, the deeper that I fall into despair, the more beautiful that hope looks. And the greater that joy is because that is my rescue from, you know, all this pain and suffering is the hope in the cross.

And so that gives me a reason to rejoice, you know, because there can be all sorts of sin and suffering that I'm dealing with, but that doesn't change. And I think that's huge. For those of you that are listening today, I hope that you find encouragement in that, that you can see that your joy and your hope can be magnified regardless of your circumstance and actually in light of your circumstance.

So may you be blessed today and encouraged and join us. for the remainder of this on our podcast at Hope in the Morning. All right.

So when When you came home, you guys talk. I mean, I know that you wrote the story, but it's both of your guys' story. You talk about how. You know, you had flowers everywhere, and yet you would rather have had burp rags strewn everywhere and. You never really at the beginning didn't ask the question, why me?

But that's such a common question that goes through our minds. Even if we just stop at it, why? Why, Lord? Why did you allow this? I think our minds naturally want to fix it, we want to know the answers to things.

How did the Lord take your why me and turn it into praise? Yeah, throughout the pregnancy and probably in the first couple months, I didn't really ask the question a whole lot. I think I was just trying to get through, and it was honestly easy for me to just say, Well, why not me? I didn't think I was somehow exempt from suffering, but I think I really started to ask that question a couple months after when life, you know, supposedly returns to normal. You know, the meals stop, the cards stop, and you're supposed to kind of pick up responsibilities again.

And I started to look around and I went, Oh man, everyone else has had this whole year where they've had normal pregnancies and normal, healthy babies. And you start, maybe it's the comparison game that starts again, and you do finally fall into that where you just say, Yeah, why me? Like, why did my child have to die? But as I thought about that, I don't think it took long to just realize there's a much deeper way. I should be asking why me.

There's so many things in life that we could ask, why this or why that? But here I am asking why my baby would die. But ultimately, I should be asking, why would the God of the universe look down on me and my sin and choose to die for me? If the Lord's willing to do that for me, How can I question him? You know, he looked at me in my sin and chose to die for me.

And so, if I can trust that truth, if I can say, Yeah, I put my trust in Christ who died for me on the cross, paid for my sin, and I'm trusting him with my very soul, and I'm trusting him with Annabelle's soul, who's now gone already, why shouldn't I trust him with her number of days? You know, that's. Um our souls are of of even more worth, you know. Yes, yeah. Brandon, did you find yourself asking those questions at all?

Like why are we in this circumstance or praying those prayers to the Lord? Um, probably.

Sometimes it's like hard to remember exactly what Like what you're thinking early on. I do remember, I still kind of remember this iconic moment, probably in that first week, sometime. I mean, you start the realization of, like, man, this is. At first, when you get the news, it's a blur, it's a shock, and you're just kind of reeling from it, but it starts to become reality. It's like, oh, this is more concrete and this we're moving.

I do remember. really being drawn to the fact that like that, you know, she's she's not Gonna make it through this. We're not gonna see a kindergarten graduation, whether it's next week or she goes for a few hours or. Live for a month. But I remember thinking, like, one of the one of the solaces I took is like, I, as a parent, Wong.

With h one of the f Our greatest, you know, it's a fear, and you hope not to experience it, but one of our fears that I will not have to face down the road is: I don't have to worry that. um she'll re end up rejecting God.

Someday And that was like I I think I took a lot of peace from that. Um Yeah. Yeah, I completely can understand and relate to that. I've actually told my husband with the babies that we have lost that. There is a severe mercy to that because it's like we all have children earth side here.

And we don't know what the Lord is going to do with their souls. All of our kids are young, and we don't know. But with the ones, and Annabelle's not the only child of yours that the Lord has called to himself already. But those children are secure for us in heaven, and as painful as that is to. Walk without them here and wonder what they would look like and who they'd be and what they would be interested in and all those things.

There's a peace, a really deep peace that comes with knowing that those children are secured in heaven with the Lord, that they're never going to struggle with sin. And what a huge thing that we all battle with. Like, I mean, that's the beauty of heaven, right? Is to know that we get to be sinless at that point. We will not struggle in our flesh anymore.

And. Our babies don't have to go through that. Annabelle did not, she didn't walk through sorrow. She didn't walk through sin. She got to be perfected with the Savior.

And you know that she is gonna be there. When you go to heaven, she's gonna be there, and you will meet her. Um But it definitely It's a weighty reward. because it hurts here on earth. It definitely does.

And Brandon One of the things that we really want to kind of grow in through Hope in the Morning is helping men understand how they can come alongside other men. Because that's something that is more of a challenge than women coming alongside other women. That's just a little bit more natural. How This is a two-part question. One is: How have you learned to come alongside other men more readily?

How would you encourage other men to come alongside those that are going through the loss of a child. Yeah, I think since since Annabelle we've just had so many um families' lives and and young Young, um Miscarriages or Um situations like that kind of been thrown into our People are like, oh my, I know somebody, and you need to contact them. And so, mostly to Kristen, but we just have had so many situations of that be brought to our attention where I kind of wonder if I would be aware of far fewer of those if Kristen and I hadn't walked through this. But some in our church, especially even in our community group that meets at our home. And So I think Mm-hmm.

Something that's been helpful is For I guess you're kind of asking, what have other men have other men been helpful? To us, like there was there was a gentleman who was a co-worker of mine who was um They had experienced the loss of their child, I think, um, many, many years ago. But he was really impactful. And in the early days, just pulled me into his office and and just said, you know, like, wanted to know how I was doing and how we were processing it and just shared his story, which I had already kind of heard years before, but he didn't know I knew it. And just shared like these are some scripture verses that had meant a lot to him and prayed with me.

And Like his willingness to Just go out of his way. and intentionally say we're gonna We're going to talk about this right now or ask how you're going to do. Um, how you're doing was really helpful. Um, we've had a couple. People in our church, I guess, like guys who've had to walk through similar sort of things, and they've just, our lives have been kind of put together.

But I think the the men that were help some of the guys that were were the most helpful to me, honestly, were people who aren't actually close, um, in proximity.

Okay.

Um. But there's I have Two or three, like group chats, or sort of or sort of threads that are of guys that, um, most of them are believers, but um. them just reaching out consistently and say, Hey, we're praying for you guys, or when I was um offering prayer requests and saying, Hey, look, you know, my my wife, she's following your all story and we've been and and our family's been praying for you guys every night, like them just acknowledging that and um It's kind of like a bit of accountability. Hey, we're praying for you. How are you guys doing?

Um,. I think was has been really helpful. And them giving you The space, so they're not just gonna dote on you every time you come there and and uh well. As empathetically, I want to know everything about your life. Yeah.

But. But just very simply being intentional about saying, hey, we're praying for you guys. How are you guys doing? And giving you the space to just let it all out or. Not talk about it if you, if you, if that's not the time to it, but I think that's been one of the biggest.

Helps and just made me realize: oh, you need to, I need to more intentionally. Remember.

So, since that Annabelle, like when we hear people, I create an event in my calendar for. you know, so-and-so's son wa was born and you know, and just make it recur once a year. Yeah.

And then I'll usually I'll usually create one that's six months away from that. And when that pops into my calendar for that day, I'll send them a text. Because it's a bit of the nature of our culture now. We're just we're so digital, we're so phone-oriented, and we're so distant from many of the people.

Sometimes the closest people to us aren't necessarily people we see all the time. But just I know that there was people that like getting a text from somebody. Um that they're praying about for us. Just seemed to a lot of times happen like when I really needed it, which is obviously providential in God's timing. Um So I would hope that when I've texted other people and just let them know, hey, we're praying for you today.

Um That's been the same in their lives. But I think just being, it's helped by know to be like, we need to be more intentional about just reaching out to those people. Um Because if we don't give them, it's like passing the plate in church. If you don't pass it, no one's gonna no one's gonna put any money in it. Like, so if you don't if you don't open up that opportunity for that person to tell you um how they're doing and and to offer your support and let them know you're praying, like then then how are they going to know that you're actually being supportive and like that's kind of on us on our As the person who's not going through it, to reach out.

Yeah, I mean, that's how we bear one another's burdens, right? And we talk about that quite a bit on here, actually, is the fact that. You can't bear someone's burden if you don't know what it is. And those burdens can change over the years. You know, what burdens your heart during your pregnancy is not going to be the same thing that burdens your heart a year out.

Have you found too, Brandon? Has it been an important thing to you to teach your boys that you have that I know they're young, but to teach your boys that Grief is a manly thing. Like, it's okay to mourn as a man. Yeah, I th like The well there's the younger two are four and three, so we probably haven't With anything with one of them, it's like, hey, we need to control those emotions. One of them is all the emotions are out of ten, whether high or highs or lows.

The oldest one, Jackson, was how old when he was about 22 months when there was probably some of his time where his growing up was or after that where he would see, you know, you know. would go through some of those times with us with our church at the at the, um So Uh the cemetery. Um Mm. But I don't know if like and he would see it was pardon me it would see us grieve um and or cry, but I don't know um if we've had a ton of like I feel like if Jackson Jackson's age now is is eight. If we were going through that now, I think it would be a v We would have more of those teaching opportunities.

I know what it has, so we haven't, I don't feel like I've had a lot of opportunities with them to be like, oh, you know, like, we grieve, like, We need to support. There were some times in those early times, like mom's really hurting today, yeah, right? Because you notice that, like, she's crying, like, so we need, you know, could we have her hug? I mean, and this is why, but we were always kind of open with them, like, mom's missing Annabelle today, or like, or you know, we're missing it, or we're celebrating Annabelle today. I think it's what we've had in our experience, what we had more opportunities to use Annabelle's life for is moments that talk about eternity and just and just the reality of it, and that we're and that where she is and where we want where we're going to be, but where God wants us to be down the road.

Not that we give them any sort of false. Um Assurance of something that's not theirs yet. Yeah.

But it's been a lot of opportunity to talk about heaven, though. It just makes eternity kind of an easy conversation. Death and heaven is an easy conversation to get into. Yeah.

You know what's what I think is a neat thing about that with your boys is that even as they see the two of you grieve or you're open about those things. It will, Lord willing, plant some seeds in your boys where they're not uncomfortable with grief. And I think that that, especially within the church, it's an important thing for us to learn to not be uncomfortable with it because that is a part of life in this fallen world: we're going to face sorrows and trials. But how can we be the hands and feet of Jesus to those people that are suffering? And we can't do it if we're uncomfortable with those situations.

If we're unwilling to walk through the sorrow, but by you guys being open about those things in front of your boys and showing them where our hope lies. What a neat thing that they may be able to carry on in the future, whether it's comforting their wife through something or comforting other men in the church. That's a really neat thing. Did you find that the two of you grieved your loss similarly or very differently? Um, you know, I think the core of it Was similar in that we both were both very united on what we were walking through.

We both wanted and loved this child. We both, you know, saw the sanctity of life and we wanted to honor the Lord and how we walked through this. And so You know, we wanted to honor Annabelle's life through the process and do the right thing. And so, I think the core of it, and even just the priority of our marriage, that was all very united. But the day-to-day, I think it looked a little bit different.

And I would say we probably fell into a pretty typical male-female type of way to deal with it. You know, as a woman, we're thinking of everything all the time. And so, Annabelle was always on my mind. And if you know, I appreciated having almost this open-ended running conversation as we learned things about the process or as people asked about it. It was like, hey, yep, if something gets brought up, please just say it.

And we're always kind of aware of how we're feeling and thinking about it. And I would say, Brandon would be more typical male where, okay, we're talking about it and we're dealing with it, but now I'm focused on the task at hand. And so I'm not thinking about it and not, you know, having to deal with those emotions. And so I think we dealt with it a little bit differently. in that way, but I think that God just gave us a lot of grace in our marriage to learn that about each other over that time.

He learned that, yeah, if someone asks how a person's doing, I should just tell her at the end of the day, hey, so-and-so asked how you were doing. And he helped keep that conversation going. And I think I also had to recognize that if he's focused on the task at hand of work emails or mowing the lawn and he's not sad about Annabelle right now, that's totally fine. He doesn't need to be sad about Annabelle right now. Because when it's time to talk about her, he's engaged and now he is dealing with that.

I think there's that stereotypical men just compartmentalize things, or there's a comedian from years ago who talked about men, everything is in a box, and we have different boxes for different things. That's definitely true in my life, but I don't like I think sometimes it will criticize it, well there's not always engaged, but like there's I think it's a big blessing sometimes too. As long as you're willing to and open to it, you need to pull that box down and frequently in those weeks. And we're gonna talk about this or or my wife is struggling with this right now or Um or not. Avoiding that, because I think there's certainly a temptation in that.

You just push out of sight, out of mind, I'm not going to do with it, or make yourself busy with work and not allow yourself to deal and process the emotions. But there's certain times it's just like, I don't have the luxury of doing that right now. I have to take care of this. I think we've we found out about the news and And I think like three weeks, like three days later, I had a song in January and like some school year listening. You had a recital to go play.

And you're kind of like, and it had all this music on it. We're musicians for the people who may not know, classical musicians, and had all this music on it. It sounds like super heart-wrenching and just like, oh, it'd make your oh, it's gorgeous stuff, right? And like, it was like three days after we found out about this, and I just remember going, like, that that was really difficult and God gave us the grace to to to do that and get through it and and and do all of that and the strength for it. But part of it was just I'm thankful for the ab the a strong ability sometimes to be able to just There will be time for dealing with this later, and I promise that to yourself, I will deal with this later, and I'll have to pray about this later, but right now.

God has given me this to go do and And if I allow that grief to negatively affect this, I will not be able to do what I'm called to do in this, right? And so. Men and women are different and And there's there's benefits in both abil abilities. Like if we if we're if we were the same, or if we were only one way, we would we would be weak in the other way. Yeah.

Um You talk about you both being musicians, and for those that are listening or watching, Brandon, you're a violinist and you're a pianist and very accomplished. wonderful musicians. Did you guys find that music was a big part of kind of processing your grief? I think so. I've had various trials in families over the years, and there's a few hymns that.

I remember going through a certain trial with my family when I was in high school and Um Shoot what was it um Stop beast of my soul. It's it's um what's the one we sang at Annabelle's funeral? It is well. It is well. It is well with my soul.

Like, it took me years to be able to sing that. Really?

Okay.

Um, because that was that one just was like, oh, so precious, and like tears would just like well up. And I remember telling Kristen Raid around the time we got Chris that news, I said, you know, four months ago, I was able to like sing that again. You find like the emotions of whatever that trial was had been so many years in the past. And then we got Annabelle's situation. It's like, well, there we go.

We're going to have another six years before I can sing that in church without. Not that I don't believe it.

Well, especially when you know the story behind it, which we actually talk about on the show. Kyle Harding came on and talked about that. And, you know, here he lost his daughters. And. Man, I mean That's when our faith is really put to the test, right?

Our faith is not, it's not tested through the good times. It's tested when we face things that we wish so badly we could take away. We want, like Jesus even said in the garden, take this cup from me, but not my will. Yours be done. And that we want to be Christ-like in that way.

And I've seen that in you guys. And that's why I asked you guys to write for the book because. You guys had already lived out. The A testimony of trusting the Lord through your trials. And that's when you see someone's faith.

Really bloom? Like, what is it? What is your faith made of? You know, you see that when you go through trials. With our last couple minutes here, For those parents that are listening that Maybe have just recently had a terminal diagnosis for their baby in the womb.

What would each of you say to encourage them right now? Yeah, I mean, I think if you're at the beginning of that journey and knowing that you're, you don't know how it's going to end, you know, there's some type of expiration date, but you don't know how it's going to end. You know, I think just Quiet your soul and wait on the Lord. And kind of like we said earlier, you don't need to imagine all the different scenarios of how this is going to play out. You know, our imagination can really get away from us, and then we start to live in fear.

We have grace for each day. And, you know, God has already determined the number of days for this child and how that's going to look, how it's going to play out. And He will give you the grace to get through that moment. Live in today. God will give you the grace for today.

And take advantage of the time. Like, live in this time. And that might be that it's, you need to slow down and grieve and just really lament and cry out to the Lord. And it may be that you want to enjoy your baby and savor those kicks and take bump photos. But just kind of.

take advantage of the time that the Lord has given you. Because while time was probably one of my biggest fears at the beginning of that journey, knowing, oh my goodness, how am I going to get through potentially five months? It turned out to be one of the greatest gifts. What about for you, Brandon? Um, I think We have tried to r remind a couple of friends and um things that w that I learned through it that made an impact on me is just remembering that God is Is going to be faithful.

He was. I can see that 'cause I know if I've had other people say to us when we're going through, like, God is faithful, He was faithful in the trials that we went through, and they would encourage us in that way, and that He would be unfaithful for our trial, and He was. And I just, I think. If I was to tell someone, it's like, look, you just remember God is A god of um He's unchanging in his character. He always promises to be faithful to us, and he is faithful, and he will give you the strength for today.

And he'll give you the strength that you need for what he's going to ask you to go through. Um and he um He will be faithful to take care of you and give you the peace that you need. You just. You just have to lean on him and cry out to him. Um And maybe also too that like, you know, sometimes you read some of those Psalms in your devotions like, man, David is a wreck and he is this dude is angry.

And it's like, you know, sometimes tho those songs those Psalms of lament and stuff were were um encouraging to read when in the middle of it because Um he Um was able to articulate what sometimes In the stir of emotions or in the life, and all everything, all this grief gets thrown in, and you just have to be responsible for everything else.

Sometimes, I just, I don't even know what to say. You know, I don't know what to pray.

Well, then just. Just start reading those, read or read them out loud or something. Um, and he was, you know. I think it's okay to be angry, and I'm not a theologian, but I think it's okay to be angry. It's okay to be sad.

It's okay to be, you know, it's okay to express those emotions. Because we're feeling them because we're human and God has given us the ability to feel those. But then just keeping them in light of But at the end of the day, I still want to be submissive. You know, like when you find out some devastating news, like that, that angers us. Like, that's wrong.

You know, when you find out you're. Your child is not going to live, or you found out that your sibling was killed in the cracks. And, like, why would you not be angry? Those are. Those are um Those are wrongs that have happened to us because of the sin in this world.

You know, we're not meant to experience. God doesn't intend for us to experience the loss. Of death. That wasn't his original intent for us to live in that way. Obviously, he's providential and knows what is going to happen in this world, but.

Um, we've only experienced those because of the sin that's in this world, like he isn't. It's not his desire that we would do that. But because of my sin and because of the sin of Adam and everyone else, like this wickedness is in our world and we suffer under it. And so it does grieve us. It does rob us of what we shouldn't have.

Like there's this sucking hole when you lose someone that you're like. There's just no words to describe it. And like it's like it just feels so wrong. Um And I think some of the songs that Dave just does such a good job of crying out to God and just expressing how. unjust this all feels, but at the end of the day, A couple of the Psalms, he doesn't end it.

You gotta read it the next one.

Okay, here's the answer to that. But at the end of the day, God is still good. He is going to work it out for His glory. He is faithful. He is big enough.

He is worthy of our praise and worthy of our trust. And You know, so if it to another guy, I would just tell him, like, you know, you're gonna make it through this. But only by and because of God's grace and goodness.

So we're not big enough on our own. You can't just tough it up. Right. And if you do, you're not going to end up having your character remolded how God needs you to be, or you're not going to be able to be the person that someone else might need you to be through that, or be changing his way. But by his grace, he will strengthen you and he will be faithful.

And the other thing I would probably say to someone, too, or even if it was another couple, is like there is a lot of grief and. I think we experienced it like it comes and goes in waves. And those those waves of grief are really deep and high. at first and they come really fast and over time They still come, but they become less. The waves aren't as hard.

They don't hit you as hard, they don't go over your head. And they and they become um further and further apart. Um and I think in those you know Months and that first year after we experienced that. And, like, do I still feel that grief? Not every day.

God's been gracious and given us healing through it. But there's things like some certain songs or certain music brings that right back. Yeah.

But you know but God is God is good. You know, this is why I feel like it's so important to share these stories and why I'm so thankful that you guys are willing to come on today and talk about this because. that can be sort of our Flotation device when we find ourselves in the middle of the raging sea to see the testimony of others and say they survived. Not only did they survive, but they. Are they now living to testify of God's goodness, of His faithfulness?

It did not, it didn't destroy you. It It anchored you. And that's what is so important about sharing these stories and being willing to. Talk about the goodness of God amidst immense suffering. And none of us would choose these things.

But when we choose to share them, we are Offering encouragement and hope to those that are in the midst of that raging sea, as you said, Brandon. And so I so appreciate you guys coming on and joining us today on Hope in the Morning. And I encourage you to also read their story in the book, Hope in the Morning, which we have. It's called A Hope-Filled Guide Through Grief. And your story is beautifully written.

And not only that, but if you read their story, you can see it in the book or you can see it on the website at hopeinthemorning.org. If you go to featured stories, they're in there as well. And you get to see their beautiful little girl, Annabelle.

So thank you so much for joining us today on Hope in the Morning. Thank you. Mm. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting. Equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ.

To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor, please visit hopeinthemorning.org. Your donation helps keep these stories of hope on the air. and helps tangibly meet the needs of the herding.