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Author and Caregiver Mark Negley Discusses Resuming Life After Wife's Suicide

Hope for the Caregiver / Peter Rosenberger
The Truth Network Radio
June 30, 2021 3:30 am

Author and Caregiver Mark Negley Discusses Resuming Life After Wife's Suicide

Hope for the Caregiver / Peter Rosenberger

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June 30, 2021 3:30 am

Mark Negley knows what it’s like to face the pain of loss and fight to build a new life from the ashes. Over the past thirty years, he has faced cancer, raised a special needs child, lost his beloved mother, nearly lost his wife in a car accident, and supported her through depression and mental health issues resulting from her brain injuries. Tragically, in 2016, Mark received the biggest blow of all when his wife of twenty years took her own life.

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Hope for the Caregiver
Peter Rosenberger
Hope for the Caregiver
Peter Rosenberger
Hope for the Caregiver
Peter Rosenberger
Hope for the Caregiver
Peter Rosenberger
Hope for the Caregiver
Peter Rosenberger
Hope for the Caregiver
Peter Rosenberger

Hope hearing or chronically such as Olson could be something such as autism or you could be caring for family member who has an addiction lots of different impairments, mental illness, trauma, disease all kinds of different things happen, but there's always a caregiver, how you help the caregiver. Was it look like to help the caregiver. Why should you help the caregiver if the caregiver goes down. What happens to love. That's where we step in on the show help strengthen those who were taking care of somebody is not strong somebody who was struggling helping you stay healthy. As you take care of someone who is not in healthy caregivers make better caregivers more and hope

If you will learn more about the show and see our older episodes and in our podcast which is free and we would love to have you participate in all that were offering your because this issue affects all of us. If you love somebody you will be a caregiver.

If you live long enough, you will need. And this is our journey by bringing 35 years of experience as a caregiver and counting to the table and most of what I've learned, I've learned through brutal failure. I am the Wiley Coyote of caregivers and I have chased after many a tunnel that was driven that was drawn on a cave wall you know it was like it. I go back and look at all the animals that fell on Wiley Coyote should think that's me and I and I get the journey but I've also seen God's faithfulness and provision, and in his precepts in this in ways that I did not expect, and for a long time I thought the issue was okay caregiver being the task of being a caregiver. How do we deal with this particular problem with the with this doctor or this type of diagnosis or this type of procedure and those are important things but once you got it you got it you don't have to be retrained on the you you got it okay. I don't want to do that.

I know how to give an injection and I found over the years that the problem for caregivers lies in our hearts, not in the task in our hearts because our hearts are train wreck and if our hearts train wreck. Guess what have strong wallets or relationships are jobs or careers. All that's involved in. So that's where we spend a lot of time on this show. I'm also looking for interesting guests to come along who have journeyed in this world and they have experienced things that I think a good be helpful to us as caregivers to glean from to learn from and they come out with their own scars their own wounds, but they walked through some healing and some in some growth personally and now they're taking it to extend to others and one of those is Mike yesterday. His name is Mark Negley and he's got a new book out called survive alive thrive just survive a laugh thrive and what does this mean to us as caregivers, which we learn from this and you will you'll hear a lot of your own journey in Mark story and I want to welcome to the social Mark, thank you for being here with us today. My pleasure thanks for having me out.

Tell us a little bit about your background before you wrote this book. What where did you find yourself in this journey that we have as caregivers is an a lot of folks are going to their ears in a perk up because you've experienced some things that we had on the show a lot but a lot of people don't necessarily talk about this in the caregiving world.

You did it. Talk about your journey sure I be happy to know what's interesting. The oldest book in the Bible is joke and you know we all know Joe story and and in my case, the idea that suffering is unique to my story is no more than the folks that are listening who are going through suffering or caretaking for others who are struggling part of our human existence). It is given me some perspective. As I reflected on my journey specifically, some of the things that I experienced I had phone call and 2010 as my wife was being taken in a high-speed and an ambulance to the hospital from the paramedic in that in the ambulance and called me at work and said listen, it's been a serious car accident. I would think she's going to live by. You need to get the hospital quickly and nothing really prepares a person for that phone call right your your sitting at work and and focused on task and suddenly your world was turned upside down. In this particular case, my wife Victoria did look through the accident had substantive neurological trauma and and issues in her neck and having an upper upper body that began a long journey of pain and struggle for her that we out of my might live drums in light thrust me into the role of caretaking for her as the pain was, not couldn't address it neurologically and ended up watching her fall into a depression.

When a deep depression struggle with differentiate between reality and and paranoid delusions that it was a heartbreaking process unit one of the folks who works with me in the nonprofit organization that I'm involved with having found it recently said you know great from brokenness and caretaking apply certainly is not an individual gain.

It's a team sport and those folks to go through this not know they know it all too well right. Some Texas Full Contact schemes.

If we don't get helmets and pads with it and you note that you folks think well it just the fact that personal loan for you. Maybe one other. I read a statistic recently that said that the average suicide.

For example, impacts 5 to 10 people directly in their inner circle and that is correct, traumatic impact, not the far-reaching impacts of the you know what we are involved in these sorts of challenges. It involves all of us and all those that love and care for the person struggling in your course.

The interesting question that is so which you posed is so as I was caretaking for my wife during that four year period of time. You know who was helping me or what support was I seeking out that that's part of what I'm doing but my story continues and in the context that in 2015 I I got called in with Dr. Epperson Kasten looked at me and for the delay to sugarcoat this you have cancer and we have to take action quickly to assure that it's either not metastasized early short nap that timeframe and presented me bunch of options at this point I'm struggling with the potential loss and with your doctor say we don't think this is good to kill you if we get after quickly is another ground shaking moment and while part of that. My son Anderson who is today, 24, at three years old were diagnosed with significant learning disabilities and on the autism spectrum but evil to a bright guy, but unable to read or numbers are particularly difficult. So, regular school was not an option.

So we engaged in the process of looking for private school and specialty options along those lines, and midway through that process.

My mother-in-law had a emotional break and went into a mental health facility. We my wife and I brought her to our home for two or three years. Nurse her back to emotional health. So the Army night. I've been through the us in some tough experiences, and then ultimately the biggest blow of all was in 2006 P1. What awful medication. Later in life and from that point forward, picking up the pieces with my son and that's what brings us to Ireland today, but I wanted people to understand the background you had the frame where you speak your authority in this area, which is strong in Mark you know I just hear that painful journey we can take a quick break will you be right back. I want you to take us deeper in this help the caregiver. This is a family caregiver need this. My wife Gracie received and you can find out how to get a copy that it hopefully caregiver.calm hopefully were talking with Mark Negley bringing a very, very difficult journey to us today, but things that he's learned through this process and is in his new book survive alive thrive in his world was already dealing with some challenges. We have son that was diagnosed being on the spectrum. He sensed stuff brushes with this with other family members within this accident of his wife took him into a much different place and one that ultimately had a very sad outcome when she went off of her meds and then she took her own life and in that world. Mark is taking readers and and us today to okay what did I learn to this. What what am I learning through this and where can I go with this is that how can I extend this to others who are in that same place, there's a stat out there is 22 vets a day who were taking their lives and can have later on the show a down the road. Here a show with a guy that I met here who's riding his bike across the country use. Please officer who's raising awareness for police officers who taken their own lives and it's it's it's an extraordinary complex event that happens that if this is Margie said it affects five on average five people profoundly, not just cursory like all this really said no want of a profoundly affecting people and how do we walk through this. How do we hang onto God's provision of faithfulness in this a mark before I get into some more the meat of this to me as a quick question that your wife was traumatized and there was neurological trauma after her rack that resulted in it was a some type of mental impairment, or in something what what was going on with what was the diagnosis yet it's a good question and you know it so interesting that Peter diagnosing neurological damage to Killian that had neck related areas extraordinarily complex. Even the most when now neurologist that you find will tell you that it can be really difficult to pinpoint the cause of it and you for the people that are in on the left significant of traumatic level have numbness in her hands with a track nerve in the neck.

There's complicated and victorious case she had a landscape truck, one of those big old trucks hauling molars in the back on over 40 miles an hour and if it wasn't for the SUV she was driving and even the condition of the SUV made it hard to believe that she had survived it. When I arrived at the hospital I was shocked that it was really not as physically intensely visible as I thought your black eyes and swollen Poconos and things that the fighters that the hidden damage was what she would refer to as this is a neurological fuel.

She had that she referred to sometimes as a waterfall on which felt like water was streaming through and down her face, but it wasn't visible she would get pain from that experience tracked down the back of her head and neck. We went to see Lenny on neurologist. Some make the matter worse by saying, well, anything. So they must be in your head, which creates a section confusion and frustration for the person going through in a case like that in our case when I say it must be in your head. You see yeah right you're right it is in her head that we keep you figured out, but he will, but that's because II have a smart mouth that had been in and I and I have to restrain myself on that sometime. So sorry about that but you know and tragically funny internal and you gave me the letters many times were we had those types of conversations and ultimately will battle pain. In fact, the old adage from World War II of water torture.

Even conduct just gripping a little bit of water and summons for him as they were struck down because folks lose some of their emotional one and I mental health grip on reality. In our case, I was our son is graduating middle school management high school when I received a phone call from my wife as I was going to the school to drop off just before his graduation and she called and and revealed to me that she was convinced that the FBI was waiting for waiting for me at the middle school to arrest me and I first thought it was a joke, but it wasn't and she had at that point, lost her struggle with something that I didn't really understand how difficult of the struggle.

It was for current Connolly and she finally revealed that this delusional paranoid fear that I be arrested, collated through the streets some reason when I realized okay. We need professional help and we did receive professional help and we received a lot of support from our church and pastors had some experience with family members themselves, but the reality is that when you're the person responsible for taking care of somebody who's going through something that you might not be able to understand yourself. It takes patience and love. It transcends what what most people expect when they find out that kind of relationship you say that you're with somebody will matter what. Sometimes that no matter what is so much more intense and challenging than you can imagine it gets pretty gnarly doesn't are you just got a lead on God and there's there's a number of techniques to strategy that I talk about survive alive thrive. But the bottom line is it's hard and there's nobody knows that more than listeners who have been through it are going through right now and will videos and more than you. That's the reason we have you on the show here because this is how we get stronger we listen to each other stories that were not just scrambling around in this in the dark in isolation. I want to take you back something wit when you haven't seen disability. It's you know you can you can wrap your mind around summit and for example in my wife's case.

Both of her legs are gone. Okay I can I get that I'm not to argue with amputation. It's there I can see it. She doesn't have her legs anymore and so you know that I would not ask her to do something that somebody without legs couldn't do you know that but but when you have an unseen disability weathers a mental illness involved or there's there's behavior modification going on because of drugs or because of neurological damage exits is that chronic pain that's a much different thing because you can't see it. Therefore, your thinking that somehow they can snap out of it. But that's not the case is always so true and I'm glad you brought that up visible enemy we fight is so much more difficult than something that is more clear cut evident.

Not that any of these challenges are easy, but when you find yourself I found myself struggling with not getting angry and I can number many conversations with Victoria Lee. I had to be clearly clear that this prostration I was experiencing was not with her. It was the frustration with her illness was this prostration that I didn't you'll like somehow I could battle. I mean it's Catholic. Let me know. Let me take something on head on. This is crafty and and challenging and nuanced and it's really the boy it dries usual point where you know that you have to rely on God and faith because you know the right thing to do and that is to be patient and show grace the same grace that we get every day from all God show grace not only for the person that desperately need that.

Who's looking for strength and support from someone they trust and love and need so desperately to show grace to yourself. There's times like Dwight.

Why can't I think through something you can't get just being present in loving is the most important act that you can click you can share and that doesn't feel like enough to us. We want to somehow you know say the right thing or come up with that right argument or or do something and and I I was recently on the silver tomato and the event that happened with me when when Gracie coded one time in the hospital and I was just sitting there. I was normally just doing all kinds of task and be on the phone or doing business stuff and whatever, but I was just sitting there. I wasn't doing anything and I looked over she was blue and and I was able to get all the people in their get get the hospital we got it all fixed, she would save your life. But if I had been busy doing something you know some connectivity. I would've probably missed that. And she'd be dead in all this would've been for not an NS at out and I realized at that point to to not doubt the power of inactivity of learning to just be in the moment. Where were you know these these things and I would unpack this in our next segment here that we go to do because I think that being present is one of the hardest things that we have to do is caregivers because we desperately want to try to bring solutions but as I tell myself and fellow caregivers. Hey, look down at your hands if you don't see mail prints the same. The fix in and that is that is a hard thing for us to rent because were wired to somehow fix that. You can't fix these things are some things that are just not be fix this side of heaven.

No matter how much I want to I can't take away this pain. My wife lives with you couldn't take away your wife's names you could even get some of the Dr. Steven acknowledge that she was broken and and and those are frustrating things for us is caregivers in week week week turned ourselves at all kinds of human pretzels tried to somehow work through that and we can and there's a syringe appointment comes to take go a little bit deeper in this mark in the next segment. This is the rosebud were talking with Mark Negley. His new book is survived alive thrive and you not want to miss this next segment will go deep will be right back.

Physically Rosenberg in math 3 1/2 decades as a caregiver. I've spent my share of nights in the hospital sleeping and waiting rooms on foldout cots shares even the floor sometimes on sofas and a few times in the doghouse. But let's still talk about that is caregivers we have to sleep it uncomfortable places but we don't have to be miserable. We use pillows for my

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My favorite records. Many many years do I forgive. Now I have a reason and yes my southern action comes through on that. But understand that in the context of what were talking once we understand our relationship with God we are forgiven that we are redeemed that this is not the end of the story that equips us to go into these very very painful circumstances that we deal with is caregivers with that shining hope of the gospel, knowing that he who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it to the day of Christ Jesus sets the whole point and if we are so tort on our own misery on her own dysfunction. How in the world can we engage with others and if others don't respond in the way we would want them to, and we are not assured of God's redeeming work in our lives that will take us down as well and we can grieve over things that don't have the outcome that we want to have, not because of something we've done that we can but we can grieve of that in a healthy manner without having to be in despair over knowing that okay this person has a Savior.

I am not that Savior. It is really important is caregivers. We grab a hold of that because we can't fix this. We talked with Mark Negley on his new book survived alive thrive and who ran head long into a situation that he could not fix and it stayed broken and it even had an even more heartbreaking ending to it. Mark take us to that point where it did not have the ending that you wanted. There was no place where your wife was able to live a productive quality life through this thing. She she went into a very dark place because of all the injuries that happen to talk about that little bit.

I know it's painful but but there there people out there right now who were listening to this, who who are themselves dealing with this kind of pain and and you can speak you could offer a lifeline into that for them to them. Stand on. So take us into that if you don't mind what I want to say it's important to ensuring the story line Auto.

My wife Victoria and wife that she lived in joy and wonder that she provided those that she knew as well as our son and me for over 20 years and the story in this case it was after two years of struggling with it, auto accident, 2010 at 2012, she went down this dark world and had the psychological break the next two years 12 to 14, I actually had legal responsibility that have been provided by the doctors. I was able to help support her, not just emotionally and spiritually. Current support but I was also able to make sure the group visits with physicians and psychologists and treatments which is an invoice for those of us to go through this in the mental health arena.

I mean, it is a crazy roller coaster and location of the night insurance doesn't want to cooperate different medication impact different people differently so the same bill that works on Joe doesn't work on Jill and so you go effectively experimentation to try to find a medication that mix that works for that individual, and finally after two years Victoria started feeling much more like herself. I say we got her back at 80% and you know she was really spent that time focusing on current helping others to reach out of her own struggles and along that line of thought those were turning the corner and I thought born after effectively four years of best things ever get a chance.

The worst is behind us a little secret that people who have caretaking responsibilities for folks of mental health and emotional issues. No is that there is a struggle for those were going through it themselves. Figure caretaking for that. Once they take medication and a few so they start to feel better. They think NOW I don't need medication and then they go back down the law). Then they have to get back on and that up-and-down cycle is super difficult, particularly the cushion going through at the Boise caretaker you get somewhat somewhat helpless in that case, because it's really doctor-patient.

It's very disorienting and you know what what you know you where solid ground for you as a character and and that I yeah but will quote Peter that the ultimately what happened is that for weeks or so before our son was set to graduate high school.

We have big party to celebrate the fact that he actually going to college and overcome so much to his mental health issues and she decided she was good to go.

Offer medication to lose weight because she felt medication was putting weight on which it does, and I couldn't stop it. I and ultimately she spiraled them three days after graduation with him home from high school getting ready go to college and came home to find out that she had taken her life in the midst of emotional fiscal payment in return was an obviously devastating traumatic experience to come home on my son had gone out on a training run in a scholarship to run constantly in college and come back to his mother wasn't home. I came home from running errands in going out some golf balls and arrived home between the garage and found that she had taken a life and will never be set. I don't have the words I really don't to that kind of anguish that that you and your son have endured. I can say with confidence that their people listening to the show who have journey down that path and they are they are so rocked by this and and and and people don't know what to say to that and and I would ask you to speak to those people.

Now that okay this this is beyond the pale. Here's what I've learned through this and here's what helped me get back to solid ground. What what would you say to those folks because a lot of these people are our deal with this in isolation and even church folk will come up say well you don't you God.

God's in control or God sovereign, or whatever. You know that the bill say things that that makes sense to them but doesn't penetrate into the anguish of you and your son and you had to learn that the hard way you've had to go through that.

But you come you cannot receive come through it. You've learned to appropriate the faithfulness of God in this in a way that you would've never done before, and in other folks are desperate to find solid ground in this speak to that little bit Mark will be idea behind survived alive thrive in three different stages of grief recovery journey in the first stage which is survived literally on the most folks who have been through tough stuff like this to understand that immediately following this type of event you just hang on and try to get from one moment, one data that at that time for me it was early morning walks praying and crying and walking and running in on the literally in the predawn midnight of 4 AM darkness in suburban Connecticut just trying to get answers and ask God to walk with me answered me that he was greater than that greater than anything that I was going through greater than the cancer experience greater than learning disabilities. My son had certainly greater than the depression and the and eventually to suicide Whitehead because he was so great that he had given her love term is holding others. I saw the well-known song became a movie which is I can only imagine, and that that song by Bob Villard Mercy me articulates this idea that when this wall and we arrive face-to-face with Christ that we can only imagine what that would be like in the lyrics on your regular speak at all, will I stand on my knees will I scannable it on my knees with this injury that is effectively the most wonderful, amazing moment in all of our life experiences and so about that in the context of your own journey, but I found great strength in imagining that despite the great pain to an and trauma and brokenness that I was experiencing that in fact that that moment I could argue that and I could envision that the trailers graced by God of love and grace of Christ and now at this moment. At this moment.

She was cute little in ways that I can only imagine that was what I had to hold onto employees as I was going through that survived stage and then the next stage of courses. How do we start healing and moving forward and helping others in this process. That was my personal experience following on explainable loss. I listened what you see a lot of people would take theological issues because some people just like to argue. You know that suicide is unforgivable sin about it or that your wife was broken.

This was not something that she was going to do through the normal course of her life. If if this recognize trauma and all these things these things that she was broken and this is a disease taken a hold of someone and in a way that is so devastating and and I'm under me. I'm not a medical doctor, I'm not a pastor I have great hair but I'm not a preacher, so I'm not going to sit there and rest on any kind of professional authority on this, but I can tell you I I have seen the evidence of trauma and the evidence of brokenness and mental illness and disease. When people want to come up and keep more judgment on a family like that it's approved.

It's good because they don't understand the nature of disease and trauma and brokenness. But you know what we have saved we do have a Savior that understands. Have you ever struggled to trust God when lousy things happen to you. I'm Gracie Rosenberger in 1983 I experienced a horrific car accident leading 80 surgeries in both legs and became it. I questioned why God allowed something so brutal to happen to me. But over time the questions changed and I discovered courage to trust God that understanding along with an appreciation for quality prosthetic limbs led me to establish standing with help more than a dozen years we been working with the government of Ghana and West Africa, equipping and training local workers to build and maintain quality prosthetic limbs for their own people on a regular basis. We purchased ship equipment and supplies and with the help of inmates in a Tennessee prison.

We also recycle parts from donated lambs. All of this is to point others to Christ. The source of my help and strength, please visit standing with to learn more and participate in lifting I'm Gracie and I am stating without and John and hopefully care and now we come to the part where we've gone through these very difficult conversations with Mark the journey he's had with with losing his wife. This terrible wreck that led awful consequences. But now is that science is the joy of the Lord is my strength.

Now we have it weekly is important for us as caregivers to understand that the pursuit of our life cannot be happiness if it is that's elusive and temporary, and it's and it's often circumstantial. But the joy of the Lord is different.

You know at it. The joy of the Lord is something that is solid to hold onto.

Knowing that even through tears. We have his strength and in the joy that comes with knowing that that this is not the end of the story and that there is life to be live and live abundantly. Even in the midst of this broken world, and in it think that's why love that's on the Gracie and Rust have single bit Ed and Mark take us now to the thrive leaf we use survived. You did, you survived it against all odds in some respects but you did it and you and your son and your alive and your thriving and take us to that place now and and an offer that that same joy that you depend upon to two listeners today.

Well in the surviving stages. I mentioned it was just depending on God and trusting that his greatness was somewhat greater than anything.

I was experiencing and that led me to testify of the trees eulogy that God was greater wouldn't work a lot events that we all suffered further victimized us and shame us or guilt us in following that I received so many phone calls and text messages and emails of people saying literally thank you for testifying to the grace of God through Christ and any circumstance that encouraged the I started digging deeper into the grief recovery process and discovered a new way to blend effectively clinical and practical ways to build your heart, your and your spiritual self while at the same time, leaning on God and and counting on him in this process that will lead this this whole initiative.

I sought counseling from a Christian counselor to talk about it to something a little earlier you.

Others are psychologist at UCLA who is guiding Dan Siegel's claim. This research that shows that when share your story with somebody who cares you actually experience healing just from sharing. So I started here absolutely and back sharing process that I'm getting good advice and strict act of sharing with someone who cares along that line.

That led me to start hosting great groups.

I started researching and have interviewed hundreds of people who have gone through. Stop losing children and parents and siblings in different ways are struggling with mental health issues or supporting somebody with a terminal illness and so forth and it's actually been incredibly encouraging along that way. My son and I in 2018. Two years later relocated in the Nashville area and as God would have it I was blessed to meet this extraordinary woman who also relocated in the Nashville secure take." Kirsten turns out she's a PhD in preventative health, nutrition and exercise, and also a board certified nurse practitioner and that second mental health area and she and I started talking about the mission when I was involved with anyone we follow along and a year later we got engaged in Melinda my partner in life is and I just celebrated our one year anniversary, and are done is doing well these working and finding his way and really starting to open his healing process by sharing some of the things that kept to himself. Over the last couple years and I'm just to save it for you out there who are going through this to experiencing the trauma of loss. Are you done so in the past or you're about to I promise you that there is hope you can find a way to not only live a happy life, which is completely agree with Peter is such a simple conditional dynamic but joy and one of the really interesting thing more records. Wife said joy is the state of mind where you have happiness regardless of what happens to transferrin the world.

Part of that is giving back and getting back in a way that not only helps others but helps you in a great example of this is quote from Billy Graham and in one of his devotionals under the hills. He says that the software will become of the comforter in the service of the Lord and effectively he saying that Christ model suffering and now in our brokenness, we turn to him for comfort and he saying Graham is quoted saying it is scripturally first is like look when you have suffered. Now you have an opportunity to help others by sharing your experience healing yourself and will help somebody get through their brokenness and serving God in the process of water remarkable on example, a model that God showed for us and gives us the ability and I mean I can say I have a reluctant platform.

Having gone through what I've been through.

I it's not the journey I would've written up. That is not what I plan your and ultimately you trust in you know that is greater than anything you can go through in the world. You can find this joy in your life if you trust him and give it a chance just don't give up and move yourself through the process with the company of God as some of you will never leave you or forsake you. And then with a community of others were there to support you and love you understand what you're going through.

You are not alone and you can make it through. I promise.

Indeed, you and I love that verse encourages comfort one another with the same comfort that you yourself have received from the God of all comfort and it and there is that there is that unusual event that happens that when we just share the story when we spend time with other folks and we we we weep with those who weep. We mourn with those who mourn it, strengthen us, strengthens us along the journey as well and we start to see God's provision moving knowing that there are things in this broken fallen world that we will not see redeemed until we get into heaven we we won't see that you know that but but I am reminded of a of a story. Do you know who Fanny Crosby is the greatest hymn writers of all time may be the greatest and the civil.

How can you write these wonderful hymns when you're blind you know what why would you know God is let you be blind in your writing. These hymns she wrote things like blessed assurance and to God be the glory, great things he has done. She said oh no you don't understand the next face that I see will be the face of Jesus, and I thought what an extraordinary statement and I think that's something we all have as believers, knowing that there is that anticipation that this will be made right and we trust him. In the meantime but how do we know we can trust because he stretched out his arms and gave his life for us on the cross. It always comes back to the cross. If we understand more of the cross, the dental strengthen us as we deal with the things in this world that are so broke and that's that's our journey. That's that's our that's our invitation to travel with Christ on this were talking with Mark Negley who wrote this book wonderful book survive a laugh thrive in market watch what you have much appreciate you spending time was a you've opened up yourself.

Again, this is an unsolicited platform that you have. I get that a reluctant platform. As you said because you did but but you are compelled to share because once we've experienced that growth part of our own journey is as believers is we are compelled to offer that which we ourselves have received an and and semen witness and youth witness discomfort and I'm so grateful for what you done today.

If people want to find out more about you. Where did they go well. Please go to our nonprofit website to survive alive and there's community and opportunities to reach out to me and share your story or will get support my wife and partner. Dr. Lauren Goldratt take questions and advice on how to cure take for yourself optically to caregiver and I was just a list of the here's the one thing it's not just me saying or are you saying the skin. This is good workout by Matthew five Jesus himself in the sermon on the Mount three blessed are those that mourn for they will be comforted. That doesn't mean just blessed are those who are feeling bad and down and I'm struggling against.

Blessed are those who turn to me with their with their loss in their brokenness, for they will be comforted so that is the that's the flag that you planted in today show. Blessed are those who turned especially saying that that that you will be comforted. Mark tell you what you have you been a just a real blessing today and and I know that what you're doing is is there many tears in this journey that you've had you and your son both and but I also see that God is, is weaving in this something extraordinary yet you know and he does not willingly afflict the sons of menaces and limitations. Who causes grief.

He also has great compassion and a friend of mine said he reaches into the most horrific circumstances and pulls up something extraordinary. I don't know how he does it. I don't know why he does it. I just know that I'm grateful that he has done it is done it in your life, this is Mark Negley's new book survive alive thrive wherever books are sold in this is hope for the caregiver and we hope been strengthened by today. We hope you been encouraged by today. We hope you left better than we found healthy caregivers make better caregivers. It is really okay for you to be healthy. Mark, thanks for being with us today will see you all next to my some of you know the remarkable story of Peter's wife Gracie and recently Peter talk to Gracie about all the wonderful things that have emerged from her difficult journey.

Take a listen Gracie.

When you envision doing a prosthetic limb outreach. Did you ever think that inmates would help you do that, not in a million years.

When you go to the facility run by core civic and you see the faces of these inmates that are working on prosthetic limbs that you have helped collect from all of the country that you put out the plea for and their disassembly sell these legs like what you have your own prosody and arms and orange everything when you see all this. What is the duty makes me cry because I see the smiles on their faces and I know I know what it is to be locked someplace where you can't get out without somebody else allowing you to get out course been in the hospital so much and so long and so that these men are so glad that they get to be doing as as one man said something good family with my hands. Did you know before you became an amputee that parts of prosthetic limbs could be recycled now had no idea and I thought a peg leg. I thought of wooden legs.

I never thought of titanium and carbon legs and flex feet. The legs and all that. I never thought about that as you watch these inmates participate in something like this, knowing that there there helping other people. Now walk the providing the means for the supplies to get over there. What is it do to you. Just on the heart level. I wish I could explain to the world.

What I see in here and I wish that I could be able to go and say the this guy right here Denise go to Africa with that. I never not feel that way out every time you know you always make me have to leave.

I don't want to leave them.

II feel like I'm at home with them and I feel like that we have a common bond that would've never expected that only God could put together. Now that you've had experience with it what you think of the faith-based programs.

The core civic offers. I think they're just absolutely awesome and I think every prison out there should have faith-based programs like this because the return rate of the man that are involved in this particular faith-based program and other ones like it, but I know about this one are.

It is just an amazingly low rate compared to those who don't happen and I think that that says so much that has anything to do with me just has something to do with God using somebody broken to help other broken people. If people want to donate or use prosthetic limbs, whether from a loved one who passed away or you know somebody well groomed. You've donated some of your own for the did how to how they do that please go to standing with staining with Thanks Grace

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