Feherty & Bobby Pavelonis-Sunday, -Golf With Jay Delsing

This is golf with Jay Delsing, a two-time All-American at UCLA, a participant in nearly 700 PGA Tour events, seven professional wins to his credit, over 30 years of professional golf experience, a member of the St. Louis Sports Hall of Fame. This is Golf with Jay Delsing. Hey, welcome to the Golf with Jay Delsing show. I'm Jay. I got my buddy, Pearly, with me and as always, the Golf with Jay Delsing show is brought to you by Darty Business Solutions.

From access point to CEO Ron Daugherty being the chair of the heart ball, Daugherty Business Solutions is in our community making it a better place to live. Pearly, how's your day today? Just fine, Jay. A little sleet outside. Good day for stretching. Good day for stretching those golf muscles for when the spring comes around. Right now, there's no golf.

The polar bears couldn't play golf today up here in St. Louis. So, you know, we formatted the show like a round of golf. Right now, we're on the range segment and I'm so delighted to announce that the gateway section of the PGA has come back on as a sponsor of the show.

So, Ali Wells and her team, Fernando and all those guys, we're so excited to have you back. The gateway section consists of over 300 men and women that are, I guarantee you, Pearl, right now, these men and women are doing something to make the game better for the folks when the weather gets better. They're working all year round. Absolutely. They've got to.

People don't realize that it's definitely a year-round job. I am really also excited and I want to thank Jeff Thornhill with TaylorMade Golf. Thorny gives us a dozen TP5 golf balls every week.

So, if you want a shot at getting those balls, just send me an email. Jay at jdelsongolf.com and we will enter your name in the drawing. So, February Pearl, we are doing Teacher's Month. We're going to have all local teachers on the show. Bobby Pavolones today is absolutely fantastic and we get to talk about what folks can do in the winter, how they can improve their game when they can't get out on the course and some other things that I really think will be interesting. But I want to tell you about what's coming up in the St. Louis area.

I am doing a new project that will launch the first week of March. It's a national golf podcast. It's called Beyond the Fairways.

It's got an S on the end of it. So, if you love golf and you want to go wherever you get your podcast, go and subscribe. I'm doing it with my buddy Danny McLaughlin. He's a four-time Emmy winner. Just such a professional, Pearl. I'm so excited to be able to do this with Danny. Danny, I've got to work with him a little bit with you and obviously, what a talent and boy, are we lucky to have him around for us.

Absolutely. So, we're going to talk about some tips, some innovations in golf, the latest news on the PGA Tour. But our first guest was David Farity and we love him, Pearl. He's been on our show several times.

And one of the first questions we asked him was, why did he decide to leave the PGA Tour broadcast and join Live Golf? It's been exciting for me, Jay. As you know, I've covered all four majors. I've done the Ryder Cup, the President's Cup. I've done the Olympics. I've done all the playoff events.

I've played on both sides of the Atlantic and around the world. It was really the logical place for me to go. I mean, I've done everything else and it's been a really exciting trip so far. I feel like we've been on a kind of a pirate ship for a while, but we've got the wind in our sails and it's an opportunity for me to be lead analyst and to do some things that I haven't been able to do over the last 28 years in broadcasting.

And so that's what David had to say about that. And then we asked him, what excites him about going to live? You know, it was an opportunity to do something different, to be a lead analyst for the first time in my career. And to be involved with the development of the game in a different format.

I've been in this game for 50 years now, traveling around the world and I've been in the United States for nearly 30 years now. And it was really the logical place for me to go, you know, because I felt like I'd done everything else. So Pearl, you hear what he says, Farideh going to live. What's your first thought? He's obviously a trendsetter, a barrier breaker and all that kind of stuff.

So in one way, it doesn't surprise me at all. It's also maybe the only thing that is softening the edge of live for me, because David Farity is always fun, informative, professional, etc. So I think he's that first thing that takes the edge off of the whole live concept. He's going to do a fantastic job and I get why he wants to do it. It gives him a new pathway to take and that's what he's about. He's about trying new stuff.

You know, Pearl, you gotta love a guy that's innovative. And you know, he talked about playing on both sides of the pond. He's played in the game for 50 years.

I mean, so there's really not that much left, you know, for him to tackle. On the Beyond the Fairways podcast, David Farity also told us that he's bringing back his show, which I'm excited about. Over all the years he's done and all the shows he's done, who was the best interview that he ever had a chance to sit down with? Every time I think of someone that was amazing, like a Bill Russell, who, you know, he just changed my attitude. You know, he affected my life. Just the two days that I spent with Bill Russell, come to Lisa Rice.

Well, what an extraordinary human being, you know, to be able to spend time with her. And then there were, you know, the actors, you know, Matthew McConaughey and Sam Jackson and Don Cheadle, the comedians, you know, George Lopez. And, you know, it just, Tom Watson, who changed my life, you know, has been a big brother to me over the last, you know, 15, 20 years.

It's been, it was an amazing ride. It really was. Jack Nicklaus, you know, who fished me out of the Indian River.

Oh boy, there's just too many to even think about. Oh, John, I can't wait. And he obviously said, you know, the Bill Russell piece and it, it's, it's just, uh, it was just amazing. Bill Russell's response about being kind. He used two words and Faridee said it absolutely changed his life.

David Faridee. He was always around Tiger Woods on the course and got to see some of Tiger's biggest moments. We asked him if Tiger can get one more win and set the all time records for win. In fact, it would surprise me if, uh, if he doesn't win again, I know he's not going to play very much, but he's not going to play at all unless he thinks he can win.

And the only mistake that I've ever made and my commentary about Tiger Woods is when I've underestimated him. Faridee thinks he can do it. I think he can do it. What do you think? I want him to do it.

Okay. I cannot see how he can do it. I just don't see how you can walk 72 holes.

I don't care what golf course it is. That's the part, but I will say what David said, what you said, what I've said many times, I've counted the guy out multiple times over the last 20, 30 years. And I've been wrong every single time. I pray that I am wrong this time.

I just can't visualize it. I I'm with you. And that's what Faridee said. He says, the only thing that I've done wrong that I've consistently done wrong is my life as a broadcaster is anytime I counted tiger out, he pretty much stuck it in my ear.

And so we got to ask David one final question. Does he ever see this conciliate reconciliation between the PGA tour and live players getting back to compete on the same tour? I don't see them coming together, but I do see, you know, players on both sides being able to play and in one of the other, you know, um, and I think that's, uh, that's pretty good.

It's as good as we can hope for. And, uh, you know, if the live players, uh, can find a way to earn official world golf ranking points again, well then, you know, the world golf rankings come back and run. And, um, I think that's the most important thing because, you know, majors and, uh, you know, they want to see the best field. Um, they deserve to have the best field. And, uh, if you've got a player like Dustin Johnson is ranked 300th in the world, well, it kind of makes a mockery of it, you know?

So we have to find a way where, uh, you know, our guys, you know, can play and, and relevant golf tournaments around the world. And, you know, Pearl, he said the same thing. I don't, I don't see it either. Pearl, I think you're, you're probably in the same, uh, same camp.

Yeah. I see a way through majors letting down their guard here and there that the players get to play together again, which is what the golf world wants to see. Whatever they talk about, you know, kind of the coming together or joined forces, meaning the two tours live in PGA. I just don't see that at all.

I mean, PGA is iconic, well-established been around for forever and live is a shotgun approach trying to make waves. I just can't fathom how that comes together. But, but again, you know, business is a strange thing.

Money's a strange thing. And if they get the money in the business straightened out, it might, we might be surprised on how things actually come together someday. I think you're absolutely right. I'm sure that there were times where they didn't think the AFC, the NFC, the AFL, you know, the, all the divisiveness they had in the NFL years back was going to come together and look at where we are today. It's happened with every major sports across the board. You're making a great point.

I just think some things that are different is that there wasn't quite that same divide as far as the rules of the game, the style of the game and things like that, you know, granted the ABA had different colored basketball and there's different things here and there, but this divide maybe just because it's, it's recent, just seems more so than those others. I totally agree with you. And you know, we're talking about maybe there'll be some sort of reunion, but maybe not with the same players.

I mean, Phil, it's hard to imagine seeing imagining Phil Mickelson ever playing a PGA tournament again. Yeah. And, and again, I think the depth of that, to your point, that's a great point. I think the depth of it, I think there's several players that are kind of on the semi way out anyway that we're not caring about, which is why they joined live to begin with, but obviously cam Smith and some others are still young enough to have played great golf for many years to come. So there, there's a few people there. Oh, only time will tell. And you know what, at the end of the day, it keeps things interesting, really. Yeah, it really does. So we had a fascinating interview with David Ferdy and the podcast is called beyond the fairways with an S again, that's beyond the fairways, wherever it gets your podcast.

The first episode will drop the first week of March. That's going to do it for the, on the range segment, but I'm going to tip my cap and the tip of the cap. It's brought to you by our friend, Colin Burt and the Dean team, Volkswagen of Kirkwood three, one four nine six, six zero three zero three. Pearly's got a Colin truck. I've got a Colin SUV. My daughter, Joe has a Colin Volkswagen.

Anything you need in the world in the realm of automobile Dean team Volkswagen is for you today. I'm tipping my cap to my partner for that show. And that's the Missouri broadcaster of the year, four time Emmy award winner, philanthropist, community activist, and my partner, Dan McLaughlin. I'm so fortunate to get to do this with Danny.

He's such a true professional. Thank you, Colin and Dean team, Volkswagen of Kirkwood for all the vehicles and all of the support you give for our show. That's going to wrap up the on the range segment.

Don't go anywhere on the front nine. You get to hear my interview with one of the best teachers in our entire state, Mr. Bobby Pavolones. This is golf with Jay Delsing, and it's brought to you by Darty business solutions that was on the range with Jay Delsing for news on the latest golf equipment tips. And to ask Jay a question, log on to jdelsongolf.com coming up.

It's the front nine on golf with Jay Delsing. I love having Darty business solutions as the title sponsor of the golf with Jay Delsing show. You already know that they're the number one largest it consulting firm and the largest software developer in the St. Louis region. You also know that there are over 2,500 Darty teammates in 30 States and three countries around the world. But what you may not be aware of is what Darty business solutions does right here in our own community.

They were the sponsor for the first advocate PGA event at Glen Echo this past September. Darty business solutions was also a presenting sponsor of the Ascension charity class. They have created access point which builds diversity in the IT workforce. This is a game changer in our community. Literally, hundreds of mostly young African American women are getting 50 to $60,000 per year jobs right out of high school.

And that training begins in high school. Darty business solutions believes talent is equally distributed, but access to that opportunity is not. Ron Darty, our founder at Darty business solutions is the chair of the 2023 heart ball supporting local the local American Heart Association Foundation.

These are just a few examples of the positive things Darty business solutions is doing right now in our community. Don't forget this weekend is the St. Louis golf Expo over at the St. Charles Convention Center. We've got a lot of friends of the golf of Jay Delson show represented over there namely SSM health and rehabilitation go over and say hi to Brad he'll be mooning Manning the booth on Sunday. We've got pro am golf, great friends.

I know Ryan to grant and his team will be over there. The I promise folks, Shane and Rhonda will be there along with the amateur players to sign up place and great tournaments in St. Louis area. That's all at the St. Louis golf Expo this weekend.

The legends of golf returned to St. Louis in 2023. You won't want to miss one of the strongest fields in golf, Ernie Els, Steve Stricker, Bernard Langer, john Daly and many more when they compete for the 2023 Ascension charity classic title September 5th through the 10th at historic Norwood Hills Country Club. All proceeds benefit area charities together. We were able to donate over $1 million to those most in need last year.

Visit Ascension charity classic.com. You're listening to golf with Jay Delson. To connect with Jay, log on to jdelson golf.com. You'll see the latest in equipment, find the latest innovations in golf and get tips from a PGA professional.

That's jdelson golf.com. The official vehicle provider of the golf with Jay Delson show is the dean team, the dean team Volkswagen of Kirkwood, they provide me Pearly and our families with all of our cars. The reason we went with the dean team is because we could trust them. We knew at the dean team, they were going to take care of us. And they have they made the entire car buying experience so simple.

It was more than just simply selling us a vehicle. The dean team made our car buying experience seamless and enjoyable throughout that entire process. The dean team has the complete car buying steps done before you head into their showroom. They're ready to answer all your questions and set your mind at ease when buying a vehicle at the dean team. They offer new pre owned and all the services included with your dean team purchase.

When you're with the dean team, they become lifelong friends. The dean team Volkswagen of Kirkwood located on Manchester Road in Kirkwood, the dean team. This is the front nine on golf with Jay Delson. The front nine is presented by the Ascension Charity Classic, September 5 through the 10th at Norwood Hills Country Club.

Find out more at ascensioncharityclassic.com. Hey, this is Jay, and I'm sitting down with a teaching professional from Norwood Hills Country Club, my good buddy Bobby Pavolones. Bobby, thanks for joining me on the show this morning. Thanks for having me. You know, this is really fun for me.

So February, we're going to do Teacher's Month on the show. And I have had a couple lessons from you. You've been kind enough to help me when I've really been kind of struggling. Let's talk just a little bit about your background. Bobby, I know you're a great athlete. I know you played all sorts of sports. And I know you grew up in southern Illinois.

Tell the folks just a little bit about your background. But I grew up in southern Illinois, small town, Harrisburg, Illinois, but I was close to Carterville, Illinois, where Steve heckle was I was close to West Frankfort, Illinois, where my mentor, Gene Corrello was and my parents took me to gene once a week. When I was a kid, I grew up on a little nine hole golf course. And I still say just being in southern Illinois and growing up on that little nine hole golf course, helped me tremendously because we got to play there was no restrictions. I you know, I got to play golf every day if I wanted to play golf in the summer. And I could play and by the time I was 12, I was playing you know, in my dad's group. And you know, I learned a lot learned a lot of things I have used in life. A lot of things I shouldn't use in life. We kind of have that double edged sword. Don't you when you're a young kid hanging around with some older people?

Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite stories about that is I was playing with one of my dad's buddies. My dad's in a different group. I had a bad shot and I'm probably 14 or 15 through my club.

He comes and puts his arm around me. And I thought, Oh boy, he's gonna tell my dad. You don't act like that. Bobby, this is not what we do. He said, Bobby, see where you threw that club?

Isn't that away from where we're going? If you're going to throw your club, throw it where you're going, not where we've been. Exactly.

There's a myth that I tell everybody never throw a club backwards, man. It's extra walking. That's exactly right. Exactly right. I learned that early.

So that's kind of it. And then, you know, I messed around in my mind with playing basketball, baseball or golf in college. And I just decided on golf and I like we talked about earlier, I was kind of a mama's boy, a homebody. I didn't want to be in from that little town. I didn't want to go too far.

So I ended up at carbon Dallas. Yeah. With a golf scholarship though. And I mean, and you, one of the things that Jack Nicholas said at the first Ascension charity classic where, where parents are getting it wrong these days is they're not letting their kids play enough sports. And you and I grew up so similarly because when it, whether, when the weather changed, the sport changed and the golf clubs were somewhere else.

That's exactly right. Yeah. I honestly, I'm not, I could have played those other two sports division, one level two, but I just, I just, I just was drawn to golf. My dad loved golf. My dad was a minor league baseball player.

And I know your dad played in the major leagues for at least 10 years. And so, you know, I was close to baseball too. I was just drawn to golf. And frankly, I think, and I don't know if you went to this, a lot of my friends when I was, was young, didn't play golf and they thought that was for a non athlete. Now they all, now they all want to play golf. Oh Bobby, a hundred percent. Oh yeah. And I think maybe that was some of my drive to play golf. I'll show you, this is the sport. Oh Bobby, I had the same thing. A hundred percent. So you played college golf and then you started hanging around, I think Ren Lake, the great Bernie Haas.

Right, right. And Renly, he, he taught me a ton of stuff. He was hilarious and Bernie was a fantastic player and you would never know. I found his, cause he never talked about it. I found his scrapbook one day when he was having us clean out the back room and he'd shot 59 at the Pittsburgh field club. He played in the U S opens, he played the PGA.

I mean, he was a fantastic player too. And Bernie's Bernie, as far as I know, Bernie's still with us. He was in his early fifties when I was there and he's, he's still around and that, that was in the late eighties. He's, he's still around.

Oh my gosh. I need to reach out to Bernie cause he was fantastic. And probably somewhere along the line, you and I played together in a U S open qualifier. We did play together and I think you made it along and I've got, I lost in a playoff and I think you told me I was pretty good. I should probably keep trying to play. I hope I wasn't a complete jerk. Not at all. Let's talk about, I think in 96, I know that you tried to play a little bit, but in 96 you joined a team with Mike Tucker and uh, Josh went over at Bell reef, right?

Correct. And I became the director of instruction. I had previously worked a little bit for Hank Haney and uh, for about a year and a half. And that kind of gave me a little bit of a teaching background and frankly, I was around Jerry Tucker at that point and I sponged as much off him. I, as I could, I'd learned tons from Jean Corrello who taught me in Southern Illinois. Also Steve heck a lot. You know, I've been around him when I was in college and before and, and, and learned tons of, they were into the teaching and Larry Emory frankly taught me a ton about teaching too. And, and, and Jean Corrello, he was a Hogan guy. So, so Bobby, what, what I want to talk about a little bit is that those influences are, are so important and somebody comes up to you and ask you, Hey Bobby, can I get a lesson?

And you agree to do this. What are you looking for? What's important in, in, in, in your golf swing and anybody's golf swing. My golf swing is going to be different than your golf swing is going to be different than Tiger Woods golf swing is going to be different than the 36 handicap guys golf swing. Not because he's not because he's not as good as we are because his body's different. His athletic ability is different. We could take two people. I, I, in my mind, I can take two people the same size, the same athletic ability, and their golf swings are going to be different just because of the way they can move their body.

If that makes sense. I don't teach one over the years. I've kind of learned that I don't, I don't teach one method. I'm not going to teach you the same way. I'm going to teach a 12 year old girl or a 12 year old boy, or for that matter, an 80 year old man.

I'm not a method method guy whatsoever. There's a few things, obviously fundamentals that we all need to do in everybody's golf swing. The club should always stay in front of your body.

So that's, that's, that's my big thing. If I can get people to keep the club in front of their body, then they can hit pretty good shots. Well, they get, what happens is that club gets stuck behind them and, and then it comes into the ball at such an abrupt angle that there's no way to ever get the club face square except for the occasional shot here and there. And that's very true. And, and, and a lot of people, better players when they get to me in my mind and from experience, better players when they get the club behind them, their path becomes too much to the right and they, you know, they push it or, or they push, hook it or they push, you know, block it.

So the path of the club to me is determined by where it is in your backswing. Yeah. Bobby it's, it's interesting, isn't it? Because as kids, you know, we grew up with, you had more instruction than I did, but we didn't have a lot of video. We didn't, you know, w you were out there literally as Hogan said, trying to dig it out of the dirt.

No video. I can remember. I must've been probably a junior or senior in high school and, uh, Walt seems close. Who was, uh, and I, I failed to mention him earlier. I learned a lot from him. He was, he was a golf pro here in St. Louis forever at Berry Hill, but he was at my little golf course and he actually grew up down the street from me. He was a golf pro at our little golf course for a little while and he couldn't make enough money to live.

So he had to get here to, you know, get up here to St. Louis. But I learned a lot from him. But when I was in high school, he got, he finally got a video camera. I may be my junior year and we videoed my golf swing.

I'm like, Oh man, that doesn't look anything like, like it feels. And he goes, yeah, so you've learned something today. Absolutely. I need to see it.

So I started, I honestly started using mirrors a little bit there towards the end of high school and a lot in college mirrors, but not, not much video because we just didn't have it. Bobby, when video started coming around, someone brought a video to, to Ben Hogan and he was still working on this game and working on this game. And they said, Mr. Hogan, would you like to see her swing on video? And he said, no, because I don't want it to, I don't want to see it not be the way it feels to me. Exactly what you just said, Bobby.

And it is so true, isn't it? Cause there's a saying on tour, what you're feeling isn't real. But when you look at the video, you're like, is that what I'm doing? And I use this, this a lot. And I may, we may have discussed this when we, when, when you and I were working together those few times, but I'll take people to the mirror or show them on video. And I really liked the mirror because they're, they're then doing it as they're seeing it.

And I, and I say, I want you to, I want you to see what it feels like. And I know that sounds funny in my mind, if they can see what they're doing at the same time, they feel it, then they, they can, they can get it a little quicker. Oh, Bobby, I think there's a key because some of us are visual learners, right?

I would think most people, visual, visual learning helps all, all people. I mean, like you said though, when we were, when we were young, you played by feel and you went and dug it out of the dirt and I'm hooking it too much. I'm hooking it too much. I'd do everything in the world not to hook it.

Now I can't hook it to save my life. Bobby, one of the things we had Roger gone on, who's a, who was a UCLA alum of mine and now a really good teacher out in Southern California. And Bobby, one of the things that was so interesting about the tiger woods generation and the phenomenon of tiger woods, he brings out track man and all these computers. And now we can look at impact. We can look at club face.

And Bobby, when I was a kid, I, I went through a big growth spurt. My body was all over the place and I could hook the ball around a building, you know, and, and all I kept, all I was taught was you're not swinging far enough out to the right and I'd swing further out to the right, but I wouldn't leave the club face. You know, we didn't talk about that club face in that club face is so important, didn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean the, the, the face of the club dictates where the ball goes. Honestly, I get you on that swing far to the right. I'd swing farther right.

And I doesn't look at more. It's all I did. And the ball would get lower and lower because I was T loft in the face and I was shutting the face to get it, to try to go more back on my line. Not one person back then, Bobby told me to swing more left.

Nope ever. And that's the first thing I will say is that's the first thing when I, when I went to work with Hank Haney, first thing he had me doing, you got to swing as far left as you can swing it. Bobby, how much of this is opposites for people? I mean, when I see a higher handicap struggling with topping the ball and I see them trying to lift it with their body and I want to say, stay down, you know, stay down, stay down. My favorite thing with the, with the stay down is I like to show people that I can keep my head down cause they're always worried about keeping their head down.

I can keep my head down. If I lose the angle of my spine, I'm going to miss the ball by a foot. I like to show people that it's, it's, it's the keeping the angle of your spine. And you know this because you do it cause you're a tour player, but the tour players, girls and guys, their spine angle is fantastic.

When they hit the ball, it's the same as when they started. And my little drill that I give most people for that is I get them to back their butt up against the wall. Obviously you can't swing a club, but you can move your arms like you're swinging a club because the club would hit the wall. And you got to roll your butt on that wall until you get the end of it. And your left, your left hip will be on the wall at impact. As soon as you hit it, then they're both going to come off. But that left hip is, is on the wall at impact.

And that helps people get it, I believe. That's going to wrap up the front nine. This has been Bobby Pavolones.

Folks don't go anywhere. He's going to be with me on the back nine. This is golf with Jay Delson.

That was the front nine presented by the Ascension Charity Classic. Coming up, it's the back nine and more of golf with Jay Delson. Hey, this is Jay Delson for SSM Health Physical Therapy. Our golf program has the same screening techniques and technology as the pros on the PGA Tour use. SSM Health Physical Therapy has the title as Performance Institute trained physical therapist that can perform the TPI screening on you as well as use a K-Vest 3D motion capture system.

Proper posture, alignment, et cetera can help you keep your game right down the middle. We have 80 locations in the St. Louis area. Call 800-518-1626 or visit them on the web at SSMPhysicalTherapy.com.

Your therapy, our passion. This is Paul Leisinger and you're listening to golf with Jay Delson. This is Jay Delson and I've spent a lifetime in golf. And when it comes to playing the game of golf, the dining experience of a club, the amenities a club has to offer, or a family atmosphere, there's no place in Missouri like Whitmore Country Club. At Whitmore Country Club, there are two 18 hole championship golf courses. The membership there also provides access to 90 holes of golf in total. There's a 4,000 square foot fitness center with 24 hour access. There's three premium tennis courts, two massive outdoor swimming pools. There's junior programs for golf, swimming and tennis, and the best upscale and casual dining you'll find in the Metro St. Louis area. It's a club where you will feel comfortable.

A club where family and friends come and get together and really feel at home. Whitmore Country Club. Find out more at WhitmoreGolf.com. That's WhitmoreGolf.com.

This is Jay Delson and if you're like me, you're always looking for the best ways to improve your game. That means getting the best, most up-to-date equipment you can find in golf. You can find that equipment at Pro-Am Golf. Pro-Am Golf is located in Brentwood and since Pro-Am Golf opened in 1975, they have been more than just selling golf equipment. Pro-Am Golf is dedicated to helping build your game inside and out. Pro-Am Golf can custom fit all your clubs specifically to your build. They offer private one-on-one lessons and they carry golf gear for every part of your game.

That means clubs, balls, shoes, apparel, accessories from all the major brands. I get asked all the time by golfers, where should I go get fitted for clubs? And I tell everyone to head to Pro-Am Golf. They're the best in town.

And make sure you ask for CJ. That's Pro-Am Golf. Visit ProAmGolfUSA.com. That's ProAmGolfUSA.com. This is the back nine on golf with Jay Delsing. The back nine is presented by Pro-Am Golf located in Brentwood. See what Pro-Am Golf can do for you. Hey, this is Jay.

I've got Bobby Pavolones with me and welcome to the back nine. So Bobby, we were talking about lessons. Let's jump back into kind of what the theme that we left on was how the game in the golf swing is pretty much a game of opposites, isn't it?

Absolutely. If you try to lift it, the ball is going to go down. If you try to hit down on it, the ball is going to go up. If you try to swing to the right, the ball is going to go to the left. It's just, yes, it's a game.

It's a complete game of opposites. So Bobby, you teach at Norwood in 2010. You were Teacher of the Year. You spent 10 years at Bell Reef from 1996 to 2006.

And then to our benefit, members at Norwood, you went over and joined us there. I guess you never really stop learning, do you? I don't. And I say that all the time. Nothing that I use have I come up with on my own. I always say I stole it. Yeah, of course I'm learning, but I've stolen things from you just lately. Just things when we were working together and we've talked about, yeah, I mean, I use stuff from everybody. And you know this, you can find stuff from people that aren't that good at golf or at the teaching, but they have some something that's like, yeah, that makes sense.

That makes sense. And it's interesting, isn't it, Bobby? So when you get athletes, say an ex-pro athlete, to come over and get a lesson from you, it's really kind of fun, isn't it, to watch how these guys, let's say like Jason Isringhausen, who's just got great, he's a Southern Illinois boy and a great guy, just got great hand-eye coordination and a great athlete. And it's fun when you get to watch these gifted athletes take on golf because it's also humbling because we can pretty much whip their ass.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I used to help a guy named Bob Forsch a little bit and it was fun for me because I was young at that point. He was a Cardinal and I loved Bob Forsch and I'm helping him with golf and he was, I don't want to say terrible, but he wasn't very good. And I thought, man, you're a, you're an athlete.

You're supposed to be better at this. And then, then Tom Lawless that he was, he's a good player. Tom is a good player. You got some good players lately.

I, I've helped Orlando pace a few times in the last year and a half or so. He he's getting, he's getting a lot better, but he's one of the strongest people, as you know, people I've ever seen. He's got the biggest hands that I've ever seen. He can create some club head speed, but we got to figure out where it's going.

I mean, he, and he loves it. So, and he's getting better. And if he works at it, he'll be good. I mean, as you know, there are a lot of great athletes that are terrible golf. And this is me saying there are a lot of terrible athletes that are great at goals and that, and that's the ones that irritate me. Oh, Bobby, I think Tom Kite couldn't hit the backboard from the free throw line. I mean, he just was not athletic and he used to kick my ass every single week. And for the most part, everybody else's, but on the PGA tour, and I don't think any of us athletes were happy about that.

No. And there's, there was a guy that I played junior golf against and then he later obviously has done pretty well. Billy Mayfair. I thought he could, first of all, I don't think he could see well enough to hit the backboard. There was no way he was an athlete, but boy, man, he can play golf. I got to tell you that putting stroke could make a cup of coffee nervous, but he's made about 15, $20 million with that lousy putting stroke. And, and he's also won the U S amateur.

And I think the U S pub links or something. He was a great player. I think he came out of ASU and he'd come out on tour and beat me.

And I'd be like another one of these guys. And I can remember playing in the junior golf tournament and I was paired with him in Alabama. We were on a par three and I think I'm pretty sure I was hitting seven iron or six iron and he hit a five wood when he was little, he was little, you know, and he didn't hit it very far. And then when we got to the green, I told my dad, I'm like, I hit six iron and he had a five hood. He goes, yeah, but he's 12 feet from the hole here in the bunk. Yeah. That didn't compute when you were that age.

It just made, Hey, this is cool. I I'm a lot longer than he is. He's beating me, but I don't care. Yeah, I don't care.

Yeah, that's exactly right. So Bobby, what do you tell your, your students? Gosh, I can't even imagine how many lessons do you keep track of how many lessons you give a year around a thousand a year. I try not to go too crazy anymore, but yeah, around a thousand. Was there any, what was the most you ever did in one summer? Did you keep 1500, 1500?

How did you stand up through all that? I mean the heat and the, Oh, I see you on the range now at Norwood and I mean that range at Norwood is active, man. It is really active.

Oh yeah. Mike now calls it ballbeater country club. Yeah, we do. Everybody out here practices. And I, and I think as you know, I think they learned that it's a learned skill here because they've had good players here for years and the good players practice a lot and the other people have seen them and they're like, well it's their practice and I should practice. They just practice a lot here. You know, the, the heat has never bothered me now that I'm getting a little older.

It's starting to bother me. Fortunate enough to be able to wear shorts here, which I think is, uh, is fantastic just because I'm a, I'm a golf pro doesn't mean I have to wear long pants and, and die in the heat. So I enjoy that.

I enjoy that part. I know you do a lot with the juniors too and Norwood has a great junior program. It's, it's fun to see that kind of future of the game, uh, with hell. I've seen stuff that you guys do on the, on the putting greens and things like that. It's really fun for the juniors. Our junior golf program, uh, it's growing, uh, leaps and bounds. We've got younger members now with younger kids.

It's fantastic. I love working with the juniors. I really enjoy working with the ones that want, want to be there. And you know, you've, you've been in that, that were some kids, they get sent to golf and they don't really want to do it. They'd rather be at the tennis court or pool or whatever. Sometimes that gets a little hard, but even though even those kids, we try to make it fun for, and really for kids that are under 15 years old, if it's fun, they'll, they'll want to come and do it and they can use it later in life. I mean, my kids didn't want to play golf.

They were playing every other sport. I can remember my son quitting golf. One day I was watching him play and he threw his bag down on the ground and looked over at me as I was watching from the swimming pool at number 10 on West boro. Tell me, dad, this is your sport. I hate it.

I'm never playing again. Well, now he's at university of Arkansas and he's, he's wanting to play on the club team. So he's starting to, you know, he's gotten better again and started playing a couple of years ago with some friends. That's one of your students, uh, like scorned him. Yeah, absolutely. They went to the cement together, right? Yeah, they did.

Yep. Like the great kid. Bobby, let's talk just a little bit because we're still in the cold months here. Give a couple of pointers on what you tell our listeners to do for their golf game. If they can't get out and we don't get any good weather and they can't go hit into a net, how about some exercises, some stretching or something? First of all, I was, I was just getting ready to say, if you're serious about getting better at golf, a lot of the reasons why sometimes, and you know this, why sometimes your students golf swings are not what we want them to be is because they really can't do it.

Their body doesn't allow them to do it. They, they need to be doing stretching. They need to be doing strengthening.

They need to be doing drills or whatever. And, and, and the winter time is the best time to, to me to do it because even if they just play in their own Saturday group or in outings or whatever, there's nothing pressing at this point right now where they've got to go out and perform at their highest level, whether you'd be a 36 handicap or you're trying to make the tour right now, we've got a little downtime. And I, I believe as you know, as we're getting older, you and I, stretching part is the most important part. And then I, my students, what I, what I like them to do in the winter, and I say this all the time, you can fix yourself in the mirror. If we're working on a backswing position or, or a setup position, you can fix yourself in the mirror by spending 10 or 15 minutes in the mirror a day working on something.

You can get 500 repetitions in 10 or 15 minutes. And it's to me a lot of times for people that are trying to get better, it's better than just beating balls and worrying about where the ball's going. Well, that didn't work even though it's a little better.

Well, that didn't work. Well, cause inevitably they're going to go back to what's comfortable even though it doesn't work. And I think that's one of the crazy things about being a human being, you know, we'd rather be comfortable than plow through the, the uncomfortableness. I love the worst.

Oh, I'm the same. Well, one of the things I love what you said though, is, is utilizing this winter for what it's good for. And you can really invoke some changes. And I think probably the setup is, I would say 90% of the, the bad shots that I hit in my career, I hit before I swung either a lack of commitment when I was younger and I was able to fix that when I got older, but my setup position, I was always fighting my proprioception on where my body was in space. If we can get folks set up properly, gosh, man, that's at least 50% of the battle.

Absolutely. I tell people that all the time. If, if you see a guy shooting a free throw, he's not falling off balance, especially the good ones. If you guys, if you see a linebacker getting ready for a play, he's not off balance because you can't be off balance. Hockey guys, hockey guys are the ones that amazed me. How many athletes or people for that matter can be on ice at full speed and somebody run into them and they keep their balance. That's cause their balance is so good. And I honestly believe that's why hockey players can end up being good, good at golf, a little bit of the same motion, but their balance and athletic ability is unbelievable. I agree with you when, when you think of what a hockey player does, the basketball players nowadays, everybody's such great athlete, but hockey doing it on ice. Come on. Yeah, that's exactly. And I was just down at a game the other night and it's just amazing that somebody can check somebody as hard as they get checked and they're still standing up.

Frankly, they're, they're moving to the park already. I mean, I, I can ice skate a little bit, but if you look at me sideways, I'm going to fall down. So Bernie for Durko, my good buddy told me my hockey handicap was 60 and they said, he said, yeah, you can't, you can't stop on your right side. I said, is that important? I said, that's what I thought the boards were for. It's exactly right.

That game is brutal. So I love to tell people the stretching part, Bobby, and I love what you said about the mirror because you can get some general feedback. One of the things I tell, uh, some of the younger students is to use YouTube as well. Do you send anybody to YouTube? I hadn't in the past, but in the last year and a half or two, absolutely. And honestly, I I'll, I'll tell you that, you know, I heard it from teachers.

I heard it from this, I heard from that. My dad has been a little bit ill the last few years and he's been watching a lot of YouTube, not only with, with the golf, but, but I utilize the golf now. Absolutely. YouTube's fantastic. And you can, you can find a student on there of somebody and they're, they're kind of have the same problem that you do.

You can find a teacher on YouTube that, that they're working on some of the same stuff you need to work on you. I mean, it's fantastic. And my dad's been really on it cause I have a daughter that's a pretty good basketball player. And my dad was a hell of a shooter.

He wants her to shoot better. And he's, he's all over YouTube with all this stuff with, with, with the basketball. So the YouTube is fantastic.

Absolutely. Now I feel like you have to watch it that you don't just change all the time. Oh, well I saw this one and I'm going to do this.

I saw this one. Oh, it seems like I ought to be doing that. I think, I think you have to kind of form your YouTube video watching with what your body is and what you need to work on. Right.

And so I try to send anybody, you know, if we're working on a bunker shot, I'll try to send them to, you know, look at Tiger or Gary player or something like that. But here's what you look for. Look at what your body's doing.

Don't get too carried away with some of the other crazy stuff that the tour players can do. Cause to your point, you'll start floundering because you'll go, well, that was, you were right about that. But I also noticed I'm like, Nope, let, let the other stuff go. Let's just take this one component at a time. And not that I'm any better, but it's hard to do more than one thing. Oh, it is obviously. Yeah.

And in your golf swing, I say that to people all the time. I'm like, we got about three things we're going to fix, but we're going to fix this one first. Right.

And hopefully when we fix this one, it's going to help those others. Right. Bobby, you'll never give somebody a backswing thought and a downswing thought. Will you?

No, not at all. Because I always, if your backswing is in a fantastic spot and you're not hitting good shots and we're doing something wrong on her, on her, on the through swing and we'll work on that. But if your backswing is not in a good spot, once we get your backswing in a better spot, your, your through swing will start fixing itself because you'll get sick and tired of the ball going one way or the other. That's what makes you a good teacher because you're able to. So, cause I see so many people going around, I'm trying to do this on my backswing and I'm trying to do this on my through swing and I'm like, Oh my gosh, you don't have it.

You first of all, you can't think about that much. And second of all, if you get that backswing right, the through swing is going to take care of itself. It should go in the, in the, in a better spot.

Once you move your backswing, it should, it should, you never know, but it should. Yes. Bobby, gosh, thanks so much for joining me.

Tell everybody how they can get in touch with you, how they can get a lesson and how they can get better. Okay. Now the best way to get a hole in touch with me, you can email me at Pavolonis.

That's P as in Paul, A, V as in Victor, E L O N I S 23 at gmail.com. Wonderful. And I know your brother, your brother, Britt's been a great player.

Your family, your dad's a great athlete, a good baseball player. Listen, I know he's been ill and you know, I, we, we, we wish you and a family all the best with, with keeping papa around as long as you can. Yep. Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me. This has been the back nine presented by pro and golf. We'll make the turn into the clubhouse and headed to the 19th hole.

That's next on golf with Jay delsing. Power's insurance and risk management combined 200 years of experience and cutting edge products to deliver exceptional service, value and clarity to their clients. Power's insurance will deliver the highest quality property and casual insurance programs and strategic planning consultation services in the industry. Insurance can be overwhelming and confusing.

It can be tough to understand. Power's insurance simplifies it for you and your business. Power's insurance and risk management will partner with you by providing ongoing assistance, consultation, and service that will help you control your insurance expenses and your workplace safety. Find out how powers insurance can help you visit powersinsurance.com.

That's powersinsurance.com. The legends of golf returned to St. Louis in 2023. You won't want to miss one of the strongest fields in golf. Ernie Els, Steve Stricker, Bernard Langer, John Daly, and many more when they compete for the 2023 Ascension charity classic title, September 5th through the 10th at historic Norwood Hills Country Club. All proceeds benefit area charities.

Together, we were able to donate over $1 million to those most in need last year. Visit ascensioncharityclassic.com. You're listening to golf with Jay Delsing. To connect with Jay, log on to jaydelsinggolf.com. You'll see the latest in equipment, find the latest innovations in golf, and get tips from a PGA professional. That's jaydelsinggolf.com. Hey, this is Jay Delsing for SSM Health Physical Therapy. Our golf program has the same screening techniques and technology as the pros on the PGA Tour use. SSM Health Physical Therapy has the titleist performance institute trained physical therapist that can perform the TPI screening on you, as well as use a KVEST 3D action capture system, proper posture, alignment, etc.

can help you keep your game right down the middle. We have 80 locations in the St. Louis area call 800-518-1626 or visit them on the web at ssmphysicaltherapy.com. Your therapy, our passion. This is Jay Delsing. Did you know that Marcona is the largest authorized appliance parts distributor in the world? That's right, the largest in the world. Did you know that Marcona is based right here in our backyard of St. Louis, Missouri?

Well, that's pretty impressive. What's more impressive is the way that they give back to the St. Louis community and our region. CEO Jim Sowers has donated service dogs to the wounded service men and women of our armed forces.

Sweets at St. Louis Blues Games have been donated and auctioned off in which all proceeds were given to the backstoppers. Then there was the Marcona Police and Firefighters viewing deck at the Ascension Charity Classic this past year. It was a huge success, so much so that it's being implemented on other tour stops around on the PGA Tour. To Jim Sowers and his incredible team at Marcona, we want to say thank you. Thank you, Marcona, a proud sponsor of the Golf with Jay Delsing show. This is Golf with Jay Delsing, and let's head to the 19th hole. Hey, welcome back. This is Golf with Jay Delsing.

I got my buddy Pearly with me. We're headed to the 19th hole. Man, John, so we're kind of breaking. It's four years of tradition.

We've only done the show for four years. Is that tradition? It is for us. It's amazing.

It's spectacular and unbelievable. So I just thought it was cool that we could drop a little fairity in. You and I got to comment on that. And then we got Bobby Pavolones.

Man, I got to tell you, this guy, I love Bobby Pavolones, but he grew up so much like we did Pearl. Playing every sport, the weather changed. He's like, I don't even know where my golf clubs are. You know, I'm a basketball player.

I'm playing football. And I just love some of the things that he said. I love a lot what he said. And when he says the same things that we're saying that Jack Nicklaus is saying, and so many of the other athletes that you've talked to are saying, I just wish parents would reconsider. You know, I see it within my own family, micro focus on a given sport. And I just think it really is a missed opportunity. I mean, we've kicked this dog down the road quite a ways.

I still think, you know, one of the things I'll just talk for my own benefit, Pearl, and you can you can weigh in on this as well. When we went to UCLA and you went to South Florida before UCLA, I was so excited to get to play golf every day. And my first say two and a half or three months, I was in pig heaven. I actually happened to be playing some of the best golf I'd ever played at the time in a new environment. And I was competing with all of our all Americans and stuff at UCLA, something I had no idea I could do fast forward into after the Christmas break. A lot of lousy golf ensued. And I was towards the end of my freshman year, Pearl, I couldn't get off the golf course quick enough. I think that's what we talked about. I don't think we are talking too much about this because I think it's so important that burnout factor that, you know, Jay, there's so many things to be learned different finer points to be learned in different sports, challenging different aspects athletically, mentally, emotionally in the different sports that if we're not used to that, doing that same thing, it turns into be a grind. And I think that's what you realized.

And I couldn't get myself out of the bad play. I was just I felt like I just kept churning and turning myself into a bigger rut into a bigger hole. And Jen, if think about that, if you're one of these young men that live out in the warm weather, and you did that for two or three years in a row, there's no way you're going to want to play the game. Well, I think even even as we get older, I think there's an advantage. You know, I'm getting into pickleball with with some friends, I still jog, I try to water ski, I kayak, lift weights, do different things. I think our body needs different motions to kind of keep it fresh and keep it strong. And so I think we need to be diversifying.

I think just going out there and grinding away at the same game day in day out. I just don't know that's good for us physically or or mentally for the game. I think you're right. It's interesting, isn't it how as you get older, you learn a little more about yourself and I get time to tell Pearl when I was younger, I would just continually run my head into the wall and run my head into the wall. And now I'm like, you know, it's it's it gets pretty apparent when you need a break. Yeah, when your head starts starts bleeding. It didn't affect me much when I was younger.

I actually didn't even know I had a cut or a bruise. You know, I just kept thinking that the wall would would give away eventually. Well, I was talking to a parent the other night about their son who's played soccer, wants to play professionally and what the family has sacrificed to be able to do that move locations. Their son only takes school online constantly in in training camp, and how concerned the parents were. And I think there's positives to that. You can really see how far you can go as a soccer player. But again, that balance, I think there's some really scary negatives. And that's why the parents called me to try to figure out how do they balance this?

How do they take this 15 year old that is completely immersed in this? That's all that they think is important in life. And how do they help that their son balance that the idea that there's more to life and going to be more to life than soccer in the future. And even as good as he is, they know it's, you know, it's one in 100, it's probably one in 1000 that the kid actually makes it. So it's, I think there's super value for going for something. Absolutely. But as we all know, there's costs.

So and how do you weigh those when they're 12 1314 1516 years old? That's tough. It's tough for parents.

Yeah, it really is. And especially, you know, Jen, if those parents have kind of a frustration in the sporting realm, or if they weren't quite as good, a lot of them will live through that child. And I saw that a lot with Brennan and my daughters as they played volleyball.

And it was, gosh, it was tough, because it can really turn the entire experience into a real real downer. Well, Jay, one of the most successful athletes that you know, is Taylor Twilman. And your sister and Tim Twilman did an unbelievable job raising their kids. They all had college scholarships, they played major soccer, Taylor went on and played superstar soccer. And they balance things they took to family vacations, even when the coach said not to played other sports like and look at how much he's enjoying golf now.

There's there's just that balance and he made it to the to the pinnacle of the pinnacle. I think that's what we want to learn. It's hard to your point, if the parents don't really have a perspective if they didn't grow up in that environment, and the kids certainly isn't in that environment, and really need to reach out and listen to Jack Nicklaus's, the Tim Twilman's of the world, to be able to get a perspective of how to go forward. And I love what Jack Nicklaus said on your interview with him. He blames the coaches. And you know, I'm starting to buy more and more into that because the coaches have lost their perspective when they just want the kid to go to practice for that single sport every bloody day. If you look at some of the things that we've learned as getting older, I mean, when we're out of our league or out of our lane, the first thing we do is who can we talk to?

Who can we go seek advice to? And that's what's not happening. We've talked about this so many times, especially when we open wild crush. And the first thing you said to me was, you need to go spend and you need to take this guy out to lunch and that guy out to lunch this woman out to lunch, you know, go buy them coffee, go sit down, pick their brain. It's true, John.

And that's what, you know, the Anthony Robbins thing about success leaves clues is apparent there. And why wouldn't you, we don't need to read about the wheel. We can end up doing it our way. We can tweak it. We can make it special. We can make it ours. But to your point, if you're trying to reinvent the whole wheel every time, man, that's going to take forever.

And I'm not sure you're going to be too successful. So we want to kind of learn what's best practices and then get our personality woven in there to some degree. We got rambling on that, but I think it was really, really, it's really important to me.

I know it is to you if we can help those parents out there with, with help them, you know, guiding their superstars through the early parts of their life. Uh, Pearl Rory, it wins it over to buy third time that he's won. John Ram was poised before he had a bad Sunday round.

I love, I love the comments. He asked John, what happened on Sunday? And you know, he's like, I don't know what happened.

I just didn't play as well as I have been. But most of us don't, you know, those streets end and Pearl do not sleep on one Mr. Max Homer. No, no, no, but, but just back to Ram for a second. Part of this is to really try to digest how difficult Torrey Pines out this, what, what kind of margin you need for things not to work well for you. It's, it's super difficult.

If you get it in the rough and that rough is going a little bit the wrong way, you get more of a flyer or a dud than you were planning on et cetera. That place can get you off balance so quick. It's unbelievable. And I'm loving your comment on Max Oma. Jay, he has a certain look, a certain walk, certain thing going on right now. And like we talked about with family, he's got the child, he's kind of got things settled down, got the wonderful wife, got the life, got the balance.

I say I'm with you. We got to look out for this guy because his swing is also a thing of beauty, a thing of beauty. You know, Pearl, he got to play in the president's cup down at quail hollow and he was a rock star.

I think he won four points or so. I mean, he just had a phenomenal tournament and I, again, it's another really, really great example of a, of how this U S side for international competitions. And we know that's way up in the air with live, especially with the Ryder cup coming up this year in Italy. But for the U S side, someone like Max Oma looks like a stalwart. Well, absolutely. And what a boost to your confidence and, uh, and your game when you go into a president's cup or a Ryder cup and you really, really perform some of the best players ever haven't performed terribly well in those situations. So his, his confidence and, and his trajectory is good as anybody else's in the game right now. He's not quite there on certain things relative to Rory and, uh, and Rob, but I'm with you. I think he's a short half a step behind, you know, Pearl, that is going to wrap up another show.

Thanks for being with me. Thanks for helping me plod through this kind of new format that we're looking at. I'm really looking forward to the beyond the fairways adventure with Danny Mac and Pearl looking forward to next week. We are going to have mr. Brian vote on the show. He has been voted the best teacher in Missouri for shoot eight, nine, 10 to the last year's in a row. Really got to have a fun interview with him. I really liked your series on the, on the, on the instructors. It's the right time of year to do it. And these are quality guys and quality instructors.

It's a, it's a lot of fun. Well, thanks for being with me. We want to thank Darty business solutions for the support. They are a title sponsor. Ron is the chair of the heart ball folks. If you want to support the American heart association, the heart ball is the 25th of February at the Ritz Carlton. You can get tickets online. Pearly have a great day. St. Louis. Let's go straight.