Helping Engaged Couples Become More We-Focused

Do you feel called to serve God in your career? Check out some of the exciting job opportunities we have at Focus on the Family. We're looking to fill positions in marketing, IT, and marriage counseling. Work with other talented believers. Enjoy a meaningful Christ-centered work environment and use the skills God gave you to encourage others and help families thrive. To learn more, visit focusonthefamily.com slash careers. That's focusonthefamily.com slash careers. Planning a wedding is hectic.

It is cumbersome. I think my favorite part about it was the cake testing. We found her dress on a sale rack at the bridal store. At our wedding rehearsal, I decided that it'd be really fun if I could walk out to the Iron Man theme song. The day before a wedding, it snowed a foot and a half, but it's also a very joyful time, so it's one of those stressful, joyful times. Well, planning a wedding can be exciting and crazy and busy and an adventure for the engaged couple and their families.

Managing all those details and solving problems and hopefully you find ways to get along with everybody and you experience God's presence and peace in the process. We're going to be talking about weddings today on Focus on the Family with your host, Focus President and author, Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller. John, I don't know how things went for you and Dina, but for Gene and I, we had planned our wedding in a matter of weeks. It just came fast and because we had this opportunity where we could present these drug and alcohol abuse shows around the country, but we had to get married.

It was crazy. We didn't have a date yet set and we'd been engaged for about a year and then I get this phone call from a friend one night and I was at my brother's house. Gene was over having dinner with us and I put the phone down. I said, can we get married in six weeks and head off on this long work tour? She was like, can we call him back tomorrow? It was funny.

You should have seen the look on her face. You know, she's a planner, so we prayed about it and felt like it was the right thing to do and man, God bless Gene for being spontaneous in that moment. Maybe in hindsight, it wasn't the smartest decision, but it really did work out well for us and we spent nine months together traveling the country. It was great. It was a good start for a long-term marriage.

It was. When couples start that planning process, it's like a rollercoaster of emotions and decisions and stress like you heard in the clips. One danger is putting all that time and energy into the ceremony, but not really preparing well for the rest of your marriage. That's so important, not only for the couple getting married, but also for parents and friends and other family members to think about so that you can support and encourage this couple in the years ahead and that's why we want to explore this topic today with our guest Lucille Williams. And Lucille is the women's director at Shepherd of the Hills Church in Porter Ranch, California. She's married to Mike and he's one of the pastors there. They have three grown children and three grandchildren and Lucille has written a book that will be the basis for our conversation today. It's called From Me to We, a Premarital Guide for the Bride and Groom to Be. Check that out.

The details are in the episode notes. And Jim, here's how you began the conversation with Lucille Williams on today's Focus on the Family. Lucille, great to have you here at Focus. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Now first of all, I'm gonna tell you, you are too young to be a grandmother. I mean, my goodness. Thank you very much.

I can go now. John and I are not grandparents and we're jealous. I mean, I have teenagers at home.

What are you doing? You must have married really young. I did. I did.

I was 19, two weeks after my 19th birthday. Okay. Took a stroll down the aisle. I was saying, you know, or it's divine intervention, something here, because I'm sure you get that a lot.

There's no way you're a grandmother of three. But talk about those chaotic early years. I mean, a lot of people now, especially in the Christian community, our former board member, Al Mohler, who's the president of Southern Seminary, he has blogged and talked a lot about the importance of lifting marriage up to our young people. You know, so many young people are waiting to their late 20s and it's hard to control those passions.

The scripture even talks about that. And he says, and I tend to agree, don't let that burn inside you. Get married younger.

It's a beautiful thing. The gift of marriage is the right thing. So you obviously chose that path. How did you and Mike meet and how'd you get together? We got together when I was actually in the high school. We went to the same high school and he lived across the street from the high school that I was attending.

Yeah. I was 17 years old and I used to get out of my last class and run to his apartment. Well, now you got to clarify what was going on.

Well, you need to know we were not Christians and not even close to being Christians. Okay. And so at 17, I had a boyfriend who had a good job and a car and he was great and he was fun and he had his own apartment and we would hang out regularly at his apartment. So not long after, I mean, obviously within two years you guys got married. That was a good decision, by the way, for all listening. That's the right way to do it.

Yes. When did you make that commitment to Christ? Did you do that as a couple or when did that happen for you and Mike?

That was later. We had been married for about five years and it was rough. A lot of fighting, terrible things were happening in our marriage. I mean, I understand when couples come in and they'll say to me or my husband, we're in a rough marriage, it's tough.

We get that. We know what that feels like and it's horrible. It's one of the worst things you could be is being in a bad marriage and we were in a really bad marriage. So when you talk about from me to we, I mean, this is deep.

This isn't just a high level kind of fun thing. You guys had a transformation in your lives, your hearts, and your marriage. Completely.

When we got married, it was, it was all me. I was trying to get what I wanted. He was trying to get what he wanted. I was pursuing a career and I told him, don't get in my way, buddy, because you're gonna get kicked aside if, you know, well, what if you have to go?

Then I go. And he's like, what do you mean? And so he was trying to control me and I was nasty and we were always fighting. Sometimes we would fight for two weeks and not talk to each other for two weeks. It was, it was, I don't know how we even stayed together. I've got to ask you, so today when you have a disagreement, what's it look like as believers? Well, we're talking 35 years later, so it's completely different and we have learned to diffuse each other really quick, really, really quick.

That is so wonderful. I mean, that to me is life. What you're describing there, this is the way it should be, especially if you're a non-believer and we have a number of non-Christians that listen to the program. We want to encourage you to get on the track with knowing who Christ is and where he can take you and your testimony is part of that.

In that regard, talk about the the desire to reach young people and to help them do it better. What do you think are the key things when it comes to doing a wedding and all that planning in a better way? I think that right from the start, went from dating and from the time when couples are engaged, it's that groundwork for what the marriage is going to look like later. Things that are said can't be taken back. That period of time is just a short period of time, but your wedding and the wedding day is one day and then your marriage is forever.

Right. So don't sacrifice a planning period and one day for what your forever future is. Yeah, in fact you and Mike had a pretty interesting wedding, right? When you go back to it, what went right and what went wrong? We had a lot of things go wrong on our wedding day.

Describe it. I was at my house, he was at his house, just tensions were flaring, he and I got on the phone, we got in a big fight. On your wedding day. On our wedding day, we're screaming at each other. Terrible things were said, vulgarities were said to each other, we were just slinging words like crazy and all of a sudden my brother-in-law gets on the phone, my husband's brother. Older brother? Older brother, gets on the phone, Christian, older brother. Oh, good for him. We weren't a Christian at the time, but he was and he talked to me and he called me down and I remember saying to him, I'm not gonna marry him, he's a big jerk. And my brother-in-law just called me down and next thing you know my husband was back on the phone, of course he wasn't my husband at the time, and the wedding was back on. Well, in a few hours. Yeah, he was gonna be in a few hours, yeah.

That's crazy, most people are going, why did you not say stop the ship, stop everything? You still went through and you got married. We did. The way our life was, that was normal.

That was normal. I mean even like when we were engaged, that was just the way we interacted with each other, we didn't know that there could be any other way. Okay, is there anything else that went wrong on your wedding day other than the two of you telling you you didn't want to get married to each other?

That's a big one. Yeah, my dad's tux didn't fit, we had to stop on the way to the wedding, we had to stop and get him a new tux and then his dad had gotten us our limo and I wanted to let my mom and sister be in the limo with us because I was a people pleaser, I didn't know how to say no, this is for me and dad, so it was my mom and me and my sister and my dad and so my husband's dad was a little disappointed that I did that because he set that up for us so that it would be a special time and then we get to the reception and my mom and my husband's mom didn't get along and my mother-in-law was yelling at me while I was in my bride's room and she's like don't worry we're not gonna bother you and she passed, she's now passed away, she had dementia and it was a long difficult story and sad but on the wedding day it was crazy. All I can think of Lucille is that paved the way for a pretty unusual and difficult several years together as a couple, right? Well wait a second though, I want to get to the honeymoon, there had to be more fireworks on the honeymoon. Okay well something actually happened on the honeymoon that my husband- I can't believe it.

Who'd have thought? My husband told me he said don't ever tell anybody that this happened. Uh oh, well let's tell six million people. He made me promise, he's like no one will know, we never even told our children. Do you need to call him right now and get permission? Well actually it's in the first chapter of my book. Okay so Mike this is already out there, don't call me. It's already out there so yeah but before I could write it I called him and I said honey I had this opportunity, I've gotta write that story, I just gotta write that story.

What was it? And he had to pray for a day and then he finally said okay go ahead. So what happened, we took a cruise for our honeymoon and I mean cruises are wonderful, they do everything for you, we were having a great time, we were dancing at night, we were seeing the sights during the day, it was wonderful and then the last night we were there they wanted our luggage. So I thought I'd be- You prepared the luggage and you put it outside the door.

Exactly, so I thought I'd be brilliant and I told my husband hey we'll just keep the clothes on that we're wearing and then tomorrow morning we'll just put the same thing on and we'll have less things to carry around. He wasn't too sure about it, he's like alright you know let's do it. So that night we were we were with friends because we had met a lot of other honeymooners and and we were sitting at this table and it was oval shaped and we were the we were inside the oval so it was people to his side and those people to my side and he and I were real close because you know it's our honeymoon so we're sitting close and holding hands and all of that and all of a sudden he put his head back and he started vomiting. Like a volcano, like an eruption.

It's one of those cruise ships. And you thought it was over and it just kept coming and it just kept coming and it's falling all over him it's falling all over me and and people are scattering. Finally yeah we think he's done but then he's not done and more comes out and we're just and so then finally it's done and we're sitting there and it was just like that oh and we are so humiliated we're both just sitting there just and everyone's looking at us no one said a word not one word no snicker nothing and so he and I just kind of like sat there and the people got out so that we could get out and so we walk out and we go up to our room and now we're covered in vomit. He vomited but it was on me and it was on him it was on both of us even though he's the one that vomited it landed on both of us almost like wow this is what marriage is like I guess and and so I had to find some soap and I went into the bathroom and I had our clothes and I remember looking at these vomited clothes yeah clothes with yeah I got clothes all over them and they're sitting in the sink and I'm trying to wash it out and I stopped and at 19 I looked down and I thought to myself this is marriage this is what marriage is oh wow because you don't know what marriage is until you jump in and all of a sudden I was just hit with that reality this is marriage it was like oh what now yeah what now you got to tell us the end of the story what happened what'd you do clean that stuff up we cleaned it up we cleaned it up we hung up our clothes the next morning our clothes were still wet but we had to put them on and you know fun fact your clothes dry quicker when they're on your body that's a that's a horrible story yeah okay let's talk as a parent yeah it's a little daunting I I'm talking to Trenton Troy about it but I don't know that I've had the right conversations with them other than about keeping themselves pure for marriage and for their future spouse yeah those are tough conversations what happens is you know we we fall in love and it's like we're on drugs and you cannot think straight you cannot think straight you have to have people around you that can think straight and help you so just recently I put on Lu says calm my site LU says and it's the marriage material quiz and I'm getting a really great response there because people need to know is this person going to be in Ephesians 5 husband or wife and so I put this quiz on there so they can just kind of evaluate because sometimes you know as parents you can go I don't know I'm not sure that this person would be a good spouse but they're in love and they're in the clouds and they're everything is so wonderful so sometimes they need another voice coming in and going did you consider this did you think about that do you have any idea what this means in the long run yeah and people sometimes don't realize that so that's why I have that on my site on Lu says calm so that people can go and say okay I'm gonna take this quiz and see if this person I'm dating is marriage material but now let me ask you though Ephesians 5 you said that very quickly but just kind of fill that out what is Ephesians 5 talking to us about what does that mean to someone who may not be familiar with Ephesians 5 well right out of the gate as a woman it says be subject your husband's ladies be submissive to your husband's the Bible tells us that over and over and I remember as a young bride when I first became a Christian well I wasn't young bride because I was five years in when we became Christians you're 24 young a person and I remember when I first read that I was so angry I'm like I've been fighting with this guy all these years and now I have to be submissive to him are you kidding me there's no way that's gonna happen and I've got so angry I would get mad with God because when I would read Scripture then I knew I had to do it and so I was like uh-uh I'm not doing this one and I would get so mad but then I said okay okay God this is what you say so I'm gonna give it a try what I learned is that yielding is love huh we yield out of love you yield because you love them and you're saying okay well it's just considering them it doesn't mean you're under or less than or somehow not up to par it means that you love them and you're willing to yield Lucille you're on I'm probably one of the most volatile aspects of Scripture in our modern age I mean because many many young women struggle with this and so too many young men because they don't know what it means to lead and fill that in a bit more I get that that is beautifully and wonderfully said but you're right there at the crossroads of culture where it is hard to say okay Lord describe for us what that meant to submit to Mike what so many people that I talk to in the media for example they don't get this they don't understand it it's it they're in that angry spot they think what is this but describe how that works in modernity what does it mean for a couple to really submit to one another yes yes when I have young ladies come to me and they say my husband's not a leader he's not a leader I always look at them and say you know what the definition of a leader is it means someone's following them so if they're not a leader maybe you need to be a better follower hmm and we're so quick to put it on the men oh he's not spiritually or he's not doing this he's not doing that he's not doing I say whoa whoa whoa hold it what is he doing right tell me what he's doing right tell me what you love about him now follow that man and the more you follow him the better leader he's gonna be and women miss that they miss that but in Scripture it tells us that as a wife you submit to your husband and but what does it say to the husband's love your wife as Christ loved the church now that feels impossible at times I gotta tell you from the male perspective it's like you're perfect I'm not exactly so what is harder you tell me to be submissive to your husband or to love your wife as Christ loved the church I mean that's an impossible task and so what I like to do and I'm frustrated with something my husband is doing I like to go to Proverbs 21 where it says the king's heart is like channels of water in the Lord's hand he directs it wherever he wishes and what I do is I take the word king and I put Mike in there and I say okay God he's yours I'm listening to him and I'm following him because I follow and I trust you so basically when we trust God we can trust our husbands well I mean I'm with you and that is what the scripture says I just think so many women right now especially single women and just married women are going are you sure Lucille you don't know my husband and you know what you don't know my husband he's a wonderful man and I love him but he's a man and men are men women are women we're all broken we're all broken and we need to learn how to be broken together and give each other kindness and forgiveness and just be willing to say okay let's start over Lucille you mentioned in essence those expectations for a couple that's engaged let's lay those out let's go back there to what are healthy expectations for an engaged couple to expect in marriage do you have a tick sheet that you can give us two or three what are those things they really need to remember from the day of their wedding on forward when you get married and you choose one person to spend the rest of your life with you now love them so much and with that love also comes the ability to be hurt and so what happens is we get married to someone who we think is always gonna fill us up always gonna make us feel great always gonna do the right thing and do what we want from them and then all of a sudden they hurt us because they can hurt us more than anybody else that vulnerability exactly and that's gonna happen that's one of the things that you need to be prepared for which is why we need to safeguard the marriage before it starts and read books like from me to we to help safeguard your marriage so that you are ready and in for me to weave there's 88 discussion questions give us some examples of those 88 well one of them is if your spouse turned you down for sex how would you feel that's something you want to talk about before you get married another one did you grow up in a home where it was easy or difficult to share your needs and desires we need to be able to share what we need and what we desire from our spouse it doesn't mean they're always gonna say yes and they're always gonna do what we want or what we think we need but we need to be adults and be able to say this is what I need from you so often couples get married and they don't know how to express what they need from each other well that is so true and that does take a maturity you compare marriage to a pile of dirty laundry you got to tell me how well when when you get married all of his stuff all of your stuff all the dirty stuff all the stuff you've got buried it's like it's like you have a floaty in the pool and you're trying to hold it down and you can hold it down through the engagement process but you can only hold it down for so long and then all of a sudden it's just gonna shoot up and all that stuff that you try to hide about yourself all the things that you don't want to tell anyone all the things in your past that you were like I don't want to talk about this if they knew this about me maybe they would reject me you've got to let that out and talk about those things and let them love you when that goes along with another concept in the book where you talk about not keeping secrets as a couple that can be you know when I first read that there's counselors that'll be on both sides of that and we need to recognize it not that you want to keep secrets from each other but some would say discretion is important especially for your past life and all those kinds of things but give me your philosophy on that and the biblical connection to it secrets are not good and when I got married I had a big secret and obviously I couldn't hide it anymore because I was married and my secret was that I had a eating disorder and I was making myself vomit throughout the day and I had no control over it and I was seeing this and so Mike noticed it and I convinced him at first oh it's no big deal honey it's just the way I keep my weight down it's fine so he bought it at first but then he did a little research on his own which was hard to do because it was back in that 80s era when people didn't really talk about that and most of the women were like skinny skinny skinny and the eating orders people didn't really know about eating disorders at the time and then he realized oh this is serious and so he came back he's like you could die this is serious you cannot do this you have to stop but I couldn't I had no control over it I couldn't so then he went and he told my friends he called all of my friends and he told them do you know what she does he called my parents he told them they had no idea he called his parents anyone that cared about us he told them because he didn't he didn't know what to do what was your initial reaction to that were you offended I wasn't like for some reason I knew that he was trying to get me help and he didn't know what to do and so he was trying to save me and I had one friend who kept calling me and she said Lou you have to get help that's what you need to do you have to get help and she was a Christian friend I wasn't a Christian at the time she was a Christian friend and she was right so I had to go get help and so I went into therapy for a couple of years and it was at the end of my therapy that I actually accepted Jesus Christ oh my goodness so that was a pathway to you accepting Christ it was so that's an example a powerful example of not keeping things from your your new spouse I mean talk about these things before you even get married absolutely and I think he saved my life I was on a road of complete destruction and and I believe that he saved my life what a beautiful spiritual picture of the way it should work only the Lord right exactly this has been so much fun and and if I could ask you really to summarize from me to we what is the goal what are you trying to say me to we is a book that helps couples get on the same page we need to not be me focused and self-centered if you're gonna go into marriage and you're gonna be self-centered and me focused you are in for a lot of pain and not only you in for a lot of pain but you're gonna cause your spouse who you're vowing to love and honor for the rest of your life you're gonna cause them a lot of pain marriage is about sacrifice it's about being willing to say okay I blew it I blew it I was wrong please forgive me let's start over God lets us start over and we need to let our spouses start over as well we need to apologize we need to forgive we need to start over we need to start fresh and we need to leave room so that God can work and we need to leave room so that our spouse can grow and become the person that God intended for them because my husband is not the man that I married all my girlfriends tell me Luke he is not the man you married but I believed if I just trusted him and followed him and was his cheerleader that God would make him that husband that I needed to follow and now it's not hard to follow him he's such a godly man it's it's very easy and I have so much respect for him well that is well said in every way you've experienced it no one can take that away from me you and Mike both have experienced from being lost in your first five years of marriage not knowing the Lord to come into Christ and then submitting I use that bad word I mean that it's a beautiful story this is one of those resources you really need on your shelf you need to read it not only for yourself in your marriage but for your kids and for mentoring those around you who really need help in understanding what a healthy marriage looks like I'm telling you what folks we can do everything we can do here at focus to do this but we need you you need to be part of the Army Corps of marriage you know to be out there in your churches in your neighborhoods mentoring couples helping couples living it in such a way that they say how do you do it so well and that it's real and this is one of those resources from Lucille Williams from me to we that you need and we'll make that available and our way of saying thank you if you simply give a gift to focus on the family we'll send it to you and it'll be one of those great resources in your tool chest Lucille's book really is a wonderful tool to share with an engaged couple or a single adult who's thinking about marriage in the near future our number here to get your copy is 800 2 3 2 6 4 5 9 800 the letter a and the word family or donate and request that book when you're online our website link is in the episode notes coming up next time pastor Brian Noble describes how to navigate difficult relationships with difficult people so whoever pays the bill is who will experience a reconciliation so that you have reconciliation through Christ because he paid the bill for you and you have shalom or peace and when I come to my senses and say okay now I want Christ to pay the bill for me now we have a reinstated relationship where we're friends again on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team thanks for joining us today for focus on the family I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ I was shocked when she gave me the divorce papers I was so done I had reached my breaking point I was desperate for a shred of hope so I called the hope restored team at focus on the family they they listened to me and they asked about what was happening in my marriage they encouraged me and my wife to attend one of their marriage intensives for couples in crisis and they prayed with us they helped me believe that my marriage could be saved I agreed to go but was very skeptical that anything could help us but the whole environment was so safe and non-judgmental I felt my heart start to open up as we worked with the counselors both of us still have work to do in our marriage but for the first time in a long time we have hope again focus on the family's hope restored marriage intensive program has helped thousands of couples who thought that their marriage was over find out which program is right for you at hopewrestored.com