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And I think God really showed me ways that I was tearing down my own house. And I think it starts a lot of times with the marriage and just allowing seeds of. Discontentment, or you know, just being distant or whatever, to tear down the house on your own. I think the biggest threat to families comes not from the outside, but maybe from the inside.
Well, Jessica Smart is back with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, and we're glad you're here. Yeah, we had a great conversation last time. Things about being that memory-making mom and how to concentrate on that. Probably the biggest thing is how to prioritize your life so you're spending time on the right things.
And Jessica gave us a good analogy of what are the big boulders in our life that we need to think about. If you didn't hear last time's program, you can go to our website or get the app for the phone, and you can listen that way. Actually, you have access to all the broadcasts and podcasts that are available here at Focus on the Family. Yeah, and as we shared last time, Jessica Smart is an author and mom of three, and she captures some great parenting advice in her book, Come on Home, a grace-filled guide to raising a family who loves and likes each other. And you can learn more at our website.
Jessica, welcome back. Thanks for having me. Yeah, this is good. It was so fun yesterday. You know, I was thinking about our boys, and I think it'd be shaped into a good question for you here right off.
Uh, the bat, you know, sometimes when they're younger, our kids, you know, they're at each other a little bit. And having two boys, I know you have two boys and a girl, but the two boys for us, I mean, I remember one day they were wrestling down in the basement, and Troy came up and he looked a little like he was in trouble. And I'm like, What's up? And he showed me his fist and he said, I punched Trent, and he had his tooth in his embedded in his knuckle. And I was like, Wow, you really whacked him.
And I am happy to say they are best of buddies now. But you know, it was a moment that I think Troy probably had to set his boundaries with Trent, who was always daunting him. But speak to that idea that you know, some your kids aren't always going to get along, but the goal, the long arc, is that you know what, they're going to like each other. I like that.
Well, I love that story because I think that kind of sums it up. When we were growing up, my mom always said, Your siblings are going to be your best friends, and we. were like these people like you are wrong maybe that was true for you but it has as i mentioned yesterday we live on a family farm with my two sisters and my brother is nearby we have become each other's best friends and so i think her language around it helped a lot because we were constantly told these people are going to be your best friends and it she had this other phrase she would always say if you can't love your family then you can't love anyone else and god calls us these are the people god calls us to love and invest in so i think messaging is important um but what you're saying is really a big deal i think as parents we're tempted to just like ignore it or give them technology or just go away like we don't want to deal with it but uh the way that they treat one another is so important yeah you know that can um make an impact on who these kids are becoming so uh there's no secret sauce right if i had it i would have a million dollars but but some things that have worked for us i think Um At certain points, sitting down with the kids and sort of saying, This is your most important job right now. This is your calling, is to love your siblings. And there's usually always kind of the dynamic in the family of like the two that don't get along.
And they switch. I think they like tag team and then tap someone else out when they're getting along. Yeah, I know. But sort of phrasing it as like, this is the job God has given you, is to love this brother, to love this sister. And then, as parents, to put your money where your mouth is and really create systems in the home that are going to reinforce that.
So, you know, it is hard to enact discipline. But I say to my kids, if you're not going to treat each other nicely, you're not going to live this happy, wonderful life and go have this. You know, plush social schedule where I'm going to cart you all over. If you're kind of a jerk in the home, right? We're going to fix this.
Like, you can't deal with each other nicely. Things are going to change. Yeah. And so, um, on the positive side, people might call it bribing. I don't, but incentivizing your kids.
So, you know, I talk about I had two kids that had kind of been in a long story of not loving each other well, is what I'll say. And I told them if they played Monopoly for two hours and the winner was a good winner and the loser was a good loser and they didn't get any fights, that I would take them to Chick-fil-A afterwards. And honestly, like that helped. I mean, I, as an adult, it worked exactly. You know, I, as an adult, um, Use motivation in different ways.
And so, kind of giving them a little carrot of, like, you know, I see you. I know this is going to be a tough job, but here's your reward.
So, that's just maybe one thing.
Now, did you really sit for two hours and watch them play Monoga? No, I was in the other room.
Okay, you just needed the outcome. Right. Yeah. I mean, I was overhearing what was happening. But that'd be even better.
Let each of them vote on the other's attitude. Oh, I don't know about that. That wouldn't have worked in my own house. I did hear what was happening, so I could have assessed. But you know, I was just going to say, some of this is just practical common sense stuff, right?
And just apply that and try to de-escalate as a parent and ask them. I remember a good friend of mine, Danny Vondenhever, down in South Africa. I used to watch him. He had four children, three older girls, and then the youngest was a son, Rudy. And Rudy, it was so fun because Rudy would be picked on by the sisters, you know, and then he would pick on him.
And Donnie would say, Rudy, Rudy, come here, my son. Sit in my lap and let's talk about what's happening. Why do you let your sisters get under your skin? How do you do this differently? And I just love the attitude and the way that he talked with him about, you know, this is what it means to be a brother.
That's what he was saying. And don't take the bait and try to be a little above that fray. But Talking about it is really good instead of going, what are you doing? Stop that. And kind of screeching back at that scene at your kids.
Talk it through with them. What's motivating you to act like this, right? Exactly.
So it's really good. And that's what your book is so. Replete with, and I love it. You also mentioned the book about memory making. We covered that last time, but you say it's important to create a strong family identity.
I love that. I don't know that we did that well. I mean, we were Christians, our Christians, and we talked about those spiritual things, but I don't think we ever wrote down a mission statement. You know, what is our family about? We talked about it, you know, what we want to be about in terms of loving each other and treating each other with respect and loving God and loving each other in the home and outside the home, our neighbors.
How did you do that? And what did you write down?
Well, um, Yeah, I don't know that you need to have a big giant meeting and flip. That might be exciting to some people. Honestly, it is not to my husband. He doesn't love meetings. I love meetings.
I think they're great.
So, first, you have to negotiate that. Exactly.
Right. So, you can certainly lay out a mission statement, and I kind of talk through that with values. But I think more it's about creating a shared family culture, and you can do that through stories, which, you know, I know some people are great at telling stories and some aren't, but just kind of having these things of retelling, like the day you were born, and here's a story about your grandfather, and, you know, shared language of things we love together. And I talk in the book also about recipes, which is kind of like feels like a silly one, but it's really not because you guys probably have family recipes that mean something. And so, passing that down, it's a good just reminder as parents to have those conversations.
We get in our own heads and we're busy with our own stuff. But that's what I'm all about: just small things that make a big impact. Let me ask you. Jessica, you also write in the book about creating a nest that sounds Self-describe, but what do you mean by it? Yes, and I again, I don't want to put pressure on people: like, okay, now you're telling me another thing I have to do, because really it's about love.
My grandmother, as we mentioned yesterday, her house was a double-wide trailer and it was quite cluttered. And she did not have a lot of money, but we loved it because we were welcome there. And it meant something because she would give us canned peaches out of the, from Sam's club, and we gathered around her big old table. And so it's about creating an environment more than curating this certain atmosphere. Which can actually sometimes alienate people.
But I think just saying how can I serve my people well and I do think there's a time and a place to Declutter and clean up, and that does serve our families well. If you're listening to this and you have little kids and you're just trying to stay alive, this is maybe not your season. Create an Spanish. Just stay alive. Yeah, just stay alive.
You're doing the right thing. But what my point is, is when you get a little bit of extra margin in your life, invest it in your home. And that can look a lot of different ways, right? Maybe you're a baker, maybe you're a crafty, maybe you're a decorator. The crafty.
I like this. I've never heard that. The crafty. Are you a crafty? I am not.
And that's the thing. I did, right? That wasn't my gift. But, but I just want to, like, I guess, encourage moms to use their giftings on their family. And to our previous conversation, the culture today is encouraging us to go make a big name elsewhere.
But what would it look like if you poured your gifts into your home and got excited about your own home? Like, what excites you about that? And how could you bring the gifts that God's given you to flourish and to create in your own home? And again, it's so exciting because it can look different for all of us. I outline in the book general principles like beauty and order, which I believe are gifts from God.
So there's usually common themes, but you know, my mom's house was very inviting. It looks different from mine, looks different from my mother-in-law's. But just wanting to encourage parents to pour their energies, particularly women, in the home. You know, one of the difficulties there, and you know, I can just see this in the extended relationships that I have, you go to a dinner party or something like that. There can be for a woman, and men too, but we're talking about moms and wives.
This um Unhealthy kind of comparison that occurs. And it's hard to say where that line is. You know, so you're the busy mom, and maybe you're out of the little stage.
So, you know, you've got a little time to keep the home a little more organized, or kids aren't on the scene yet, and you can keep things organized. When is it too much? I mean, I've gone into some homes. They look like, wow, this should be in a magazine. Every detail, every Napkin is in the right place, every you know what I'm saying.
And you're going, How much time did everybody spend on the house? But it's like anything else, isn't it? It's about the heart and it's about the motivation. And I think of my mom who has a beautiful home. And this summer, we had an event, it was supposed to be a concert outside, and it started suddenly raining and thunderstorming.
And she allowed 50 to 60 people to tramp in her living room to move the concert to an immediate house concert. And I saw kind of in her face of like, okay, this is going to be a lot. But because her motivation is to serve people, she was able to use her home. For people and not for herself. And so I think just doing a heart check, but I agree with you, it is a hard thing.
My point here is just to serve our families. Not everyone in the world has to like your house, as long as your family does.
Well, and you gotta be comfortable with that. Comfortable. That's the point. Exactly.
Maybe that's the line when you're always feeling. You got to do more to make them comfortable. Maybe you're over the line. Yes, exactly. It makes me think of some of the questions you asked last time about sports involvement and things like that.
What good questions to ask when you're seeing things maybe taking precedence over people. Our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly is Jessica Smart, and we're covering some of the content in her book, Come On Home: A Grace-Filled Guide to Raising a Family Who Loves and Likes Each Other. And you can get a copy by clicking the link in the show notes. Jessica, you dedicate a portion of your book to creating boundaries in family. You call it loving authority.
That's a good way to put it. What does that look like in your home?
So, loving authority, what we're sort of going at is not so much that they love it, but loving as an adjective, like you're as a parent trying to convey an authority that is loving.
So, it's kind of like two ends of the spectrum, but not really. And this can be a little bit countercultural. You know, we kind of have like a gentle parenting moment, and there are certainly some good techniques from that. But there's just so much research, and I felt it in my own life too: that what kids really need is authority. They crave it.
God made it boundaries, exactly. But you can't simply have rules and boundaries. That's a cold home. And many of us have been raised in that. That's not life-giving.
You can't have all love, but you can't have all authority, you know, and not that spirit of you are loved, but here is the line and don't go past it. And I feel like my parents modeled that really well. They didn't dole out punishments, you know, needlessly. It was just kind of like they expected the best of us and we wanted to be who they. thought we were.
My dad particularly embodied that. He just really believes in all of his kids. And so you wanted to be what they thought you were. But also, you knew when push came to shove, there was someone at the helm. There was someone directing this ship.
There was someone home. And that's very comforting to kids.
So yeah, loving authority. In my research, I landed on this phrase called elephant parenting. You know, we have the tiger moms, which is like the rah-rah, aggressive, you know, go fight, fight, fight, right? Defend their child at all costs. Exactly.
And then, you know, you have the helicopter parent. Nobody wants to be the helicopter parent. And so, evidently, this concept of elephant parenting is because I guess in nature, elephants are very nurturing, but obviously very strong. And so, I kind of joke that that's what we're going for: just creating this environment where it's a loving authority. And certainly, easier said than done, but that's our goal.
And as I have difficult times with different kids, the Lord has brought a phrase to my mind over and over, which is love hard, discipline hard. In the stages when things are just stressful and you're not really sure, to both discipline really well. but also to really love them well. Take them out to breakfast, give them a back scratch, spend time with them so that they know my mom and dad really love me. But also, they're paying attention.
You know, they're not gonna let me slide out of here. Yeah. Jessica, how do you elephant parent a cactus? I'm thinking about this. Kids get older.
Elephant parent a cactus. As they get older, they just, you know, they get all feelings bent out of shape, and you can't talk to them. They wanna eye roll you to death.
So, what does it look like to be the elephant parent? as they get older. I think that, I mean, yeah, that is a million-dollar question. I think it's so important for us to be the adult in the room and to guard our feelings and to not get our sense of security from how our kids are relating to us. We're not in it to be friends.
You know, there's a bigger picture, there's a perspective, there's a long-term. And how many of us either were or know stories of kids that just were difficult for a couple years and then they come around? You know, and my mom just did such a good job of loving the kids in her life through different seasons. I think she just had a long-term perspective. It was like, you and I, we're gonna be here forever.
I'm gonna love you forever. You can be a little bit weird right now, be a cactus, but I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. And so there's just this deep, I think that unrattles children. You know, it's deeply settling, and you just can't evaluate what you're seeing.
You know, without taking into account what's happening under the roots of the cactus, I guess. Yeah, and I think to peel that back a little bit on the parenting side, what's going on in you? Where you need that perfection out of your child. Yeah. And the damage that's going to be done, expecting perfection, because guess what?
You're not perfect either. That's the whole point of the spiritual battle in this life, right? That's why we're all sinners saved by grace. And it comes back to what is our goal? And this is terribly convicting to me, but is my goal to curate this wonderful family so that it looks good?
Or am I just trying to be faithful to what God has called me to do? And if you're trying to be faithful, that simplifies things because you can accomplish that. You know, there's not a. You can't control your kids' behavior, but you can control if you submit your life to the Lord and just try to be obedient. And I think that's what my mom and my grandmother modeled so well throughout the years.
No, and it's so good. You know, Jessica, that raises a point. We've been working with Katie Faust, and she's got a great little ministry called Them Before Us. And the theme in there is a real general principle when you look at culture today. And that is, there was a time when adults.
sacrifice for children. And now, as a culture, we're kind of asking children to sacrifice for adults, whether it's broken marriages and kids ending up in foster care or, you know, the whole LGBTQ thing, and children adopted into, either purposefully adopted into homes with no dad or no mom. And we're just, as a culture, losing our way to say, let's put children first ahead of us rather than. Adults being selfish. And I think that's really at the core of the whole culture and trying to figure out how do we do this and how do we, like your grandmother, how do you say, okay, I may not have the perfect marriage and it may not be even a healthy marriage, but I'm going to fight for staying together, making the improvements I can make.
really for the sake of the children and the grandchildren. That's a noble goal.
Now we're not talking about if you're in an abusive situation, you've got to get to safety and those things. But we're talking about just the apathetic marriage. Think of the kids and the grandkids. And you know, in there, God will be present for you and with you, and aim to do better. And that's your goal: to do those things where you can hopefully have.
a good marriage, something that you're excited about, right? Yeah, and so many of these issues that we're talking about are about perspective and doing something today that's not paying off today, but paying off later. And I talk in the book about planting a tree, which seems like a colossal waste of time in some ways, because you're not going to eat that fruit for years and years and years. But so many of these women that I have seen in my life were planting fruit. For years and generations down the road, um, I heard just such a cool story recently.
I don't know if you guys follow Forrest Frank, but you know, he's this Christian musician who has exploded not only the Christian music scene, but the non-Christian and is really kind of reaching this new generation. Um, but I heard a clip of a conversation with his grandfather and him, and his grandfather just said, We've been praying for you for years and years, and it's so cool that you're the one God is using to reach this generation. And Forrest spent years not walking with the Lord, and so it was such a cool reminder to hear: like, this grandfather had been praying for him years and years and years, and now the fruit. And so, we have no idea who we are raising. We have no idea who we're raising and how they're going to impact the culture.
So, the small decisions that are difficult now may be growing fruit that we have absolutely no concept what it is. And that's energizing to me as a mom. These are good pow punches right at the end here, because I wanted to end with your mom's story of her ability to forgive, which you noted in the book, and what an impression that made on you. Yes, we mentioned yesterday just common themes that I saw in strong families. One being They have someone who has made the family their highest priority.
Two being, which we spoke about, that they not only love but like each other, three being that there's a loving authority in the home. And then the last one is that I think strong families forgive. Because I say you can take all the vacations you want, you can do all the traditions, but if there's this latent. a rumbling of bitterness. That's very hard to unseed, and it will eventually become evident.
And so, my mom has just done such a good job of retaining grace in her heart and in the home. And that is easy to say, but so hard to do, because it means that you are forgiving people for doing things that are wrong. But if you don't have that in the home, I don't think any of the rest of it is even gonna make a dent. You know, if there's not a culture of, You're forgiven. And we love you, and you and I are gonna be in this for a really long time together.
So, big picture: like, we're gonna let whatever this is go. And again, we live on a family farm, so we have issues, right? Whenever people are together, there's gonna be stuff. But my mom would just often say, Jesus has forgiven me so much, I don't wanna hold on to any bitterness. And you know, I remind myself: if she can forgive, of course, I can.
If Corey Tenboom, you know, we've heard her story, if she's able to forgive, surely we can for some of these. you know, petty or maybe not petty infractions within the home. But I do think grace and forgiveness is the foundation.
Well, it sets a great aroma. Yeah, I mean, that's a spiritual truism, right? Those are characteristics of God.
So when we're putting those into play in our life, forgiveness and love and kindness and goodness, the fruit of the Spirit. You're going to have a great aroma in that home. And I like how you said fruit of the spirit because this isn't something we can conjure up on our own. Yeah. Right?
We need help. We need outside help.
Well, it's of his character. Think of that. And that's what we're aiming for. Jessica, this has been great. I so appreciate the time we spent together this time and last time.
And your book, Come On Home: A Grace-Filled Guide to Raising a Family Who Loves and Likes Each Other. I just love the title, and the content is so good. Thanks for these great nuggets of wisdom on marriage and parenting.
So thanks again for being with us today. It's been an honor to be here. Yeah, it's so good. And I think hopefully you're catching it. What Jessica's book is filled with is great information on how to adjust your compass.
And if you're in that spot where, like we talked about last time, you may not be spending your time in the right places. You need to reorient what's a core principle for you. The book will guide you in all that and help you rethink what are the big rocks in that jar. What are the Pebbles, and then what's the sand stuff that you do quickly, or maybe you don't do it all in order to give you time to do the other things that are more important? I think most of you are going to say, Yes, I need that.
Get in touch with us, just make a gift of any amount to help the ministry here at Focus, and we'll send you a copy of the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. And let me also say this: I'm so grateful how God is using this program to change lives. A mom named Ann from Nebraska said this: As a stay-at-home mom of three teenagers, I listen almost daily to your broadcast. The variety of your shows provides guidance and encouragement to me as a mom and a wife, but also as a Christian. I often find myself sharing episodes with friends and family.
God is really working through this ministry. You're in our prayers.
Well, thank you, Anne. I certainly love that impact on you and your family's life. And I thank you too for the endorsement and for allowing us to come alongside you as a mom and wife. That's what it's about. And I hope Ann's.
example inspires you to join our support team. And here's what your donations are paying for. A monthly pledge of just $15 makes it possible for us to put biblical resources like books, videos, and more into the hands of six families like Anne's who reach out to us. That's a powerful investment and I invite you to prayerfully consider what the Lord is calling you to do to help other families today because that's generational impact, exactly what we've been talking about today. And Jessica, really, for those that come on and are guests on the broadcast, you're doing ministry through this machine at Focus on the Family.
So thank you for pouring into and taking the time to be on the show.
Well thanks. And I feel like I'm a product of Focus as well because it was so instrumental in my mom's life and my dad's life. And my daughter loves it too.
So it's super cool. Keep it going. Yeah. That's great. Thank you.
Well, be a part of the team. Donate as you can and get a copy of Jessica's book. Come on home when you call 800, the letter A and the word family. 800-232-6459. Or stop by our website.
By the way, when you're online, look for our free parenting assessment, which gives you a great sense of how well you're doing, how strong you're being as a mom or a dad, and maybe an area or two of growth. It's a really simple 10 minutes or so of your time, and it'll give you a lot of great feedback and tools. It's all free, designed by Focus on the Family to help you move forward in your parenting journey. Look for that free parenting assessment on the website. And coming up tomorrow, a miraculous story of a teen mom who used her experience to help thousands of young women.
People need to know that God still does miracles, not just across the ocean or back in the Bible, like He does miracles today in our own backyard. It's incredible to be a part of watching him do that. On behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Hey, this is John Fuller and we're getting ready to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Focus on the Family.
But the celebration won't be complete without hearing from you. We want to know how Focus on the Family has helped you survive the toddler years, navigate the teen years, or be reminded that you're not alone. How has God used this ministry to encourage you? Tell us when you click the link in the show notes.
