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I get emotional talking about this because what a rich relationship that is. Think about when they are a little and you have to play the cop. Do you really want to live there all your life? Mm. Well, that's Rich Griffith, and he's back with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, talking about how you can adapt your parenting style from cop to that next stage of leadership as your children grow up.
Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller. You know, our children's needs change as they grow up, and we have to grow as parents right alongside them. Yesterday, we talked about parenting younger kids and ways to lead them well as they grow from toddlers into grade schoolers. It's not complicated, but it takes intentionality.
And I want to encourage you to listen to that episode in the Focus on the Family app if you missed it. Making parenting adjustments as your children get older can get more and more. more challenging. They say small children, small problems, big children, big problems.
So we are going to talk about some of those changes that need to happen when your children grow into teenagers today. Here at Focus on the Family, we want to come alongside you, help you throughout your parenting journey. One way that we do that is through our age and stage E newsletters. You simply sign up, you enter the ages of your children, each one of them, and we will send you weekly emails to give you parenting ideas on how to continue to Help that two-year-old, eight-year-old, 15-year-old. It goes from zero to 18, and it's all free.
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Now, Rich Griffith is a part-time pastor and an associate professor of youth ministry. He's also a single dad of three adopted sons, and he's written a really wonderful resource. It's called Discipleship is Leadership: Stages of Generational Development, and we'll link over to it on our website. Rich, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Let me start off by talking about the impact it has on the relationship when a parent is still using the cop leadership style with a teenager.
How does that hurt both the parent and the child? Yeah, it frustrates the child. And overall, what it communicates, so this is the platform, again, this is where it goes to the foundation. Overall, it communicates to your child, I don't really trust you. And so at some point, you have to start learning to trust your child.
And even when your child makes mistakes, instead of coming down hard with the consequences, by that time, how many, you all know this, like if you've made a mistake, even when you were younger, And you knew it and you owned up to it. Did you really need somebody reminding you about your mistakes? No, no. How did that happen? No, it's really healthy.
Yeah, I mean, if you can do that as a child, that's amazing. It's great. If you can do it as an adult, that's great. And this is where coaching comes in.
Okay.
So if you put it, so I used to coach soccer and martial arts, right? You put a kid out on the field and stuff like that. At some point as a coach, you've trained them, you've done the transactional leadership.
Now you have to step back and you let them play the game.
Now, you're still on the field as a coach. You don't abandon them. Because how many, when your kids, when you're did your kids play any sports? Yep.
So when they were out on the field, And they did something good. Who did they look to? The coach and the parents. They want that affirmation. Sure.
Right. If you're playing the cop, Oh, you should have done better. You should have done it. No, how can, okay, you did great. Is there anything you can see and prove that?
Yeah, I just love, I was thinking of T-ball. If you play T-ball with your kids the first time out, like the little kid hits the ball, everybody goes to the ball. Right. I mean, I think Trent was playing left field. The ball was hit to right field, and he and everybody else ran to right field to get the ball.
It's pretty funny. It's like soccer. I coach a lot of soccer, and like eight-year-olds, they play clump ball. They don't play soccer. Yeah, yeah.
It's so true. You know, as I think through that illustration, at some point, that child out on the field, your inclination as a parent might be to help them. Right. Hey, you could have, but they're absolutely not going to hear you at that point. Absolutely.
You encourage, here's what I always say, sort of like this principle of. This doesn't exactly foot, but praise publicly and discipline privately, right? But even in that, hey, you ran, you gave it your best, right? We need to move. If not, we move into that helicopter.
You probably heard too the terminology of bulldozer parent. Yeah, right. Just push every obstacle out of the kid's way. You're still, believe it or not, you're still playing a cop. You're not really coaching and helping that child learn how to make their own decisions and learn from success.
And most of us, we learn more from our failure than we do success. And building resiliency, which is so critical. If you're the bulldozer parent, you're knocking down those barriers that actually help your child to learn how to overcome things. Absolutely. But let me dig in a little bit because folks are watching and listening.
You don't know my child. You know, I have to be the cop at 15 because of their behavior.
So, you know, again, these can be delicate things. We're working with generalities. We don't know your specific situation. That might be true. But generally speaking, What coaching advice do you give a parent when they today are going, wow, I'm still acting like a cop?
What can they do differently? What's the next phase, I guess, is the question. Yeah, I think to step back and seek other counsel outside of yourself. And, you know, I'm amazed. And I don't know if you guys have ever had this happen.
I'm amazed, and I don't know why, but I'm amazed sometimes when my kids, I'm picking up from school and a teacher comes up to me and says, Let me just tell you, Jamie or Dylan, they're such a joy to have in my classroom. Right. And we in the classroom, you're talking about my kid? Right. And I, because I never heard that.
Well, we don't. Because we can get stuck in this cop role. And I think it's a natural inclination. Why? Because we feel responsible for our children.
And we are, but we got to remember in order to develop healthy people who have their own, what's called individuation in the sense of knowing who they are, we've got to learn to let go a little bit. I will say this too. These are not cut and dry stages and phases, right? You may have to go back. And honestly, as much as this pains me, I've had to go back and go rework and build the trust versus mistrust stage.
There are things that I've done and said to my children that I look back and I go, again, I'm a better parent five years now than I was before, you know, five years later. And I got to look back and go, man, I really blew that. And how can we work on this trust issue a little bit more? What do we need to do? It could be simple.
Honestly, Jim, John, it could be simple as saying, let's go back doing our Friday night game nights. Let's build relationship. Let's build trust. And so you can go back and revisit these stages. You don't have to get stuck in a stage.
And then experiment. And here's the other thing: don't throw the baby out with bathwater. If you've been playing cop, and then all of a sudden you try and do this coach. It's gonna be tough.
So I think what you might have to do is: let's try one or two approaches that move me into being a coach, right? Neuroplasticity. rather than being hop.
So Rich, what about I appreciate so much what you're saying. I'm buying it and I go home tonight and I say, We're going to do game nights on Friday nights. And my kid basically doesn't even want to give me the time of day.
So, how do I bridge that gap? How do I disciple them when they don't really even want it? Yeah, I think there's a principle that I learned from TBRI, which is empower, connect, and then correct. We're so quick to jump to the correct, right? And I think the empowering is: okay, you don't want to do game night.
What would you like to do? And here's what I would do: I would make it a heart matter. I really miss connecting with you. I really want to connect with you.
Now, kids may not say that's what they want to do, but they want it and they know they want it, right?
So you empower them, you give them the choice. All right, fine, you don't feel like doing game. What about if we go out for ice cream?
So, you give them options, let them come up with it, right? And that's how you start.
So, again, this is actually, if you think about it, it's moving to coach. You're now empowering them to make decisions of things that they would find more attractive and appealing, and you start building that relationship. Keep trying. Exactly, right? You're the parent.
Keep trying. You're the one who's wiser, right? It's that Mark Twain quote. Says when I was 17, I couldn't believe how something like I couldn't believe how dumb my old man was. And then I turned 21 and I couldn't believe how smart he had become.
Yeah, right. So true. A little maturity. Yeah. Rich, how did you use the coach leadership style?
Kind of that. teen parenting. Era, I would think, to teach your boys about money. Yeah, that's a really interesting one. I think when kids start getting the concept of money, which is brilliant when they actually start working on their own, have to pay some things on their own.
They're like, oh, this actually costs me some things, right? But before I even did that, what I would do is I would actually take them grocery shopping with me. And I know if you're a parent, you're like, that's probably the worst thing you could do because it's not like they're toddlers anymore and they're grabbing for all the stuff on the side shelf, right? And I will actually give them money and I'll say, this is just a freebie. This is grace.
I'm just giving you money to go buy whatever you want. But you're going to have to be selective about it. And I constantly teach my kids about the value of money and what you earn. But here's what I also do: I want them to learn the difference between wants and needs.
So, for instance, I will always call them, even to this day, and I will say, hey, I'm about to run to the store. What do you need? And they have to tell me what they need first, right? Deodorant, toothpaste, whatever stuff. And then I will say, What do you want?
And he'll say, Oh, can you pick up some of those cookie things? And I'm like, You know what? I have the finances. I will be glad to do that. They don't always get that.
And then I also teach them the value of like when they start making some of their own money. And it's really like an outlandish want, you know, not really outlandish, but they want cookies or whatever. I'm like, you can buy that for yourself because then they understand it costs them. Exactly. That's very good.
So it's just teaching them the value of money and earn. And, you know, what is it? The love of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself. It's kind of like your conversation earlier about sex, right?
It's not dirty, it's not bad. It's how you treat it.
So, Rich, as a coach at this point in time, when you're looking at your child with regard to money, what about a child that doesn't regulate?
So, I bring the cookies home and they want to eat the whole thing. Do I let them? Yeah, no, that's not good either.
So, what I've done with my kids who are in that stage and not regulating, right, I would actually break the cookies down and put them in a smaller Ziploc, right, and just say, these are the cookies you can have for now. Right. And so they just learned the value of it. And when they were younger, it was a little bit easier. I could kind of put up in a high place or I had to hide.
Y'all ever had this situation in your home where you buy something, you like it too, and you never get any of it because your kids eat it all? Yes, I have. Absolutely. Yes, I have, as a matter of fact. Just the other day.
So you have to have a safe or something to put it in. Almost, almost. But I do teach them about regulation and, again, natural consequence if they. Eat it all, then I'm like, you know what? I usually buy something like this once a month.
Well, now you're going to have to wait till another month or now. We might have to skip.
So it is teaching them to learn how to regulate and moderation. Yeah. How can parents disciple teens using transformational leadership? And what does it mean? Yeah, so transformational leadership, if you really think about it, it is you are the leader.
When you're displaying this as a parent, you are the transformational leader. Right. So, what that is, is you're actually delving more into the things that transform your child, right? From the inside out, right? It's the nurturing, the care.
And really, I talk about this: about so you start moving when your child has trust, has all these stages and they've navigated them well, you're actually becoming more of a counselor. Right. And so the counselor role is more of really tell me about your life. And you suspend or withhold judgment. I just want to hear about you.
Tell me what's going on in your life.
Now, can I break in and we'll continue. The parent that doesn't do that naturally, how do they learn to do that better? Yeah, that's I'll be honest with you. I'm still in that role myself. Yeah.
What trigger words do you use to catch yourself when you say, How is your life going? And then they say, Well, you know, kind of tough. I had a beer the other night. Yeah. What?
You did what? Right. I mean, and that's just an example. There's going to be a hundred examples like that. But how do you say, well, that's interesting.
Why did you do that? Yeah. And I think that goes back to the comment I made. Most of us, as parents, we tend to be reactionary. Yeah.
Right. Look, we know that God knew Adam and Eve were going to make mistakes. We know as parents our kids are going to make mistakes. And so instead of being reactionary, I think we have to sit down and exactly you pinpoint it: it's having the conversation, say, okay, so. What was the motivation?
Were you hanging out with some friends? You just felt pressure to do that. And there's no, withhold the judgment, right? Kids are going to explore. It's just how they explore an infant is different than how they explore as a teenager.
Rich, let's spend a little time here because a parent can translate that. If I don't correct, if I don't do the cop thing, then I'm letting them get away, and they think that action is affirmed. But if I am the trusted guide, they're. Going to come to me more often with those things, and I can provide the wisdom in the coaching phase to say, Man, that's maybe a little unwise, don't you think? But again, Sometimes in parenting, it's counterintuitive.
Like we feel we have to correct the behavior or we get a bad adult. Right. Yeah, so don't get me wrong, I'm not saying withhold discipline, right? Discipleship shares the word discipline. It's how you discipline.
So if I could share the story. I don't remember if I shared this last time, but my son, my middle son, when he was 15. He had called me and said, I was at work. He said, Dad, can I go hang out downtown with my friends walking distance? Again, the questions were: you know, who are you hanging out with?
What time are you going to be back? What are you going to be doing? Answered all the questions and said, fine, just be back by 5.30. Because that's when we had dinner, stable time. And uh so I don't think much about it.
And uh He comes back about 4:35 o'clock between there, and he's home really early, which is a teenager hanging out with friends. You're like, Okay, so what's up with this, right? And I didn't ask anything, I'm fixing dinner and. And so he says, well, I'm not really feeling well, which was the excuse, right?
Okay, I'm starting to get a headache.
Okay, fine.
Well, dinner time comes. I'm not really hungry. I'm going to go lay down.
So I go, okay, we have dinner. I go have dinner. I go to my church, have a church meeting that evening. And I get a call at the end of our church meeting. It's from the school principal.
And she goes, Mr. Griffith, I just want to find out and make sure that Dylan's all right. I'm like, well, what do you mean? She said, well, he was in a really bad car accident. I'm like, what?
Excuse me? He had apparently gotten into a vehicle with a young lady who just had her driver's license. She's 16, going on 17, something like that. Got in a van, a minivan, overloaded with people. Went down a gravel road and took a curve too quick, hit the brakes.
Flipped the van over multiple times, hit a tree, almost wound up in the river upside down. God's providence was there. I didn't know this. And I'm now, look, here's the thing.
Now, all of a sudden, it made sense to me: like, why my son has such a bad headache? He's probably got a concussion. Right. So, you know, now's not the time to jump on him and say, I can't believe you, whatever, da-da-da, you know better. I didn't do that.
My first expression with him is: look, I got a call from your principal. I know what happened. I'm not worried about that right now. We need to get you to the hospital, make sure you don't have a really bad concussion. Interestingly enough, this is a point where my 15-year-old son will mark it back.
Well, now he's 23, he'll mark it back and he'll go, Dad, that's when I knew that you loved me. Wow. Because you were more concerned about my well-being. Than giving me consequences.
So, part of this transformational leadership is you have to let your kids learn within reason consequences.
Now, don't get me wrong, he had some unnatural consequences. I'll explain that in a minute. He had his phone taken away for a little bit, and he had consequences. But I knew I didn't need to check, he learned. Because I know there was a time I hit my brakes too hard in the truck one time because somebody slammed the brakes, and he went forward like that in the vehicle, like you normally do.
And you can see the PTSD kick in from the accident. Why would I add more trauma to the trauma he already experienced? And that's when it opened up conversation very quickly to see the progression of this. He's now 23. He finished some college.
He wanted to go in the military. He wanted to go to the Army. I'm a former Army vet. I'm like. I love the Army, but son, I know your skills and stuff.
I think I'm guiding, I'm coaching, transformational leadership. I think you should look at maybe the Coast Guard.
Well, because he trusts me, guess what he did? He decided to join the Coast Guard and he left for the Coast Guard for his basic training on December 9th. Wow, that's great.
So it's all these stages and processes, right? That we're not trusting you to give him that input and act upon it. Because he knows I'm not trying to chastise him or so direct his life that I'm a bulldozer or a helicopter parent. Your son once had a relationship. I think I'm assuming he was probably in high school.
Actually, he was past high school. He was out on his own a little bit.
Okay.
It wasn't going well. And so how did he come to you for help?
Well, it's funny. Two times this happened. He called me and He's like, Dad, can I come home? Things are just not working out well. And at this point, you know, as a parent, you get the read and you're like, this is just something they need to work through, right?
And so I'm like, well, let's talk about it. And I gave him a little advice, and you just need to work through this. But The second time he called, I knew it was over. And I was supposed to be doing their wedding and all this stuff. Oh, yeah.
You know, they were getting engaged and all this, and he called, and he started sharing. And here's the beautiful thing: he owned up to his part in the relationship, which was really awesome. It wasn't just her, it was him too. And he was broken. And I will tell you: if you're an adoptive or a foster parent, you know how significant this is.
It's loss. It is loss. But the significance also of him knowing he had a home to come back to. At this point, he's like 21 years old, and for him to be able to call and say, Dad, can I come home? And I knew it was over and I knew it was toxic.
And I'm like, son, of course, you can always come home. And so it was actually another chapter for him to come home and kind of get his life back on track again. I mean, I don't, we never want our kids to go through that, and it's, it's painful. But what a beautiful story For a child who knows, in the words like Jesus said, I'll never leave you or forsake you, even the very ends of the earth, to be a dad and model that to my son is like, Of course, you can come home. You know, Rich, in that regard, and it's not a parallel, I'm not bringing it up for this reason, but the prodigal son story in the scripture must really speak to your heart.
It does to mine, and probably most people, because it's such a touching story of a loving father. Yeah, absolutely. And I look at, you know, people will question, well, you know, why did the father let the son go in the first place?
Well, he was not being a bulldozer or a helicopter parent. But again, the beauty of it was what? when the young man came to his senses. Mm-hmm. Right.
And sometimes the world Has to do its thing for our children to come back and go, I know where my security is. You know, my linear brain always thinks, could we have another chapter on that Lord? Like, how did he turn out? What was his relationship with his dad like five years later? But, you know, it's left to the imagination.
But when love is there, I think things generally go in a very good direction. Absolutely. My kids, I'm so thankful that my kids know. Then I love them.
So, Rich, there are times after our kids leave home, assuming they do at some point, where. You know, the relationship changes and the discipleship changes.
So coach me a little bit on that. What should my expectations be for my 23-year-old? Am I discipling that child still, or is it done? No, I think it's lifelong discipleship, right? And I think that.
As your child grows and you continue to stay invested in their life in different ways. They just appreciate you in different ways, right?
So, for instance, when my child, so this is a great example, when he had talked about, my middle son talked about, Going in the army.
Well, I had experience with that, and I'm like, I really did not. Want him to go and be sent to Afghanistan or wherever. But I also knew his gifting, right?
So this is where the discipleship comes in. It's more of a conversation. Again, it's this role of a confidant. Tell me what you're thinking. And let me process it.
Let's pray together. And then let's just see what the Lord says. And so at this point, knowing his gifting, I just said, I think Coast Guard would be better for you. And come to find out when he went through the different jobs that were being offered and stuff. And he looked at it and he's like, Yeah, this job in the Coast Guard really fits me.
And he's really excited about it. Yeah, I appreciate what you said, though. I mean, you're the lead on taking this to the Lord. Hopefully, your child is thinking that, but if not, you're at least expressing that, that there's a spiritual dimension to life. Let's not ignore that in these big decisions.
Yeah, you become more of the intercessor. I think of Job, right? And how he was a righteous man and he made sacrifice for himself, but he made sacrifices for his children too. He didn't stop discipling his children. And so it's just such a beautiful story.
And I think that rolled and here's what's going to be really interesting. I'm not looking forward to this, but I can see it already happening. I'm a little bit older. And I can see because my sons have developed the right heart. They're starting to disciple and nurture me.
And it sounds strange. Like, if I, you know, I got some few injuries, and if I stumble coming up the steps carrying groceries, my son, I'm getting emotional. I can't believe this. My sons will reach out and grab the bag. Hmm.
And like, man, you know, that's connected then, right? Because they're aware of my needs now. And so now it becomes a mutual discipleship, which I love that. I can still learn from my children. Yeah.
You know, and again, I didn't have an engaged dad. I didn't have a mom. I lived with my brother in junior high and high school, who was, you know, he was not my dad.
So, from that, though, and seeing my friends who had dads, again, that experience, there were the two types of dads and moms who. They are looking to correct right in that moment. How could you do this? Yeah. I I mean in the strongest of terms, Rich.
Coach them on that's a moment for you, and you got to choose wisely as the adult, as the parent, because. There's going to be two years from now and three years from now with that child. What is that? How is this setting up that relationship? Jim, I know why we go there because we see our children as a direct reflection on ourself.
And the fact of the matter is, not we're trying to help them become their own person, right?
So I want to go back to these principles: the way you do it. Start a product. Our brain has to change. We're not going to get there overnight. But try and remember empowerment.
Connect. Than correct if you have to. Like by the time your kid gets to be 21, honestly, how much correcting are you going to do? Right. Whoosh.
Right. Wouldn't you rather, wouldn't you rather be the counselor? And as they get older, you become more of a confidant. I think that's the point I'm at now with my 23-year-old. We become more of a confidant, right?
I get emotional talking about this because what a rich relationship that is. Think about when they are a little and you have to play the cop. Do you really want to live there all your life? Yeah. And in that regard, I think right here at the end, this is the right place to land: teaching your children how to integrate their faith into regular life.
That's a big one. How do you do that in 30 seconds? I think you model it. You have to model it. And I will say this: I'm a firm believer that discipleship starts in the home, it expands outside the home, but you have to have humility.
You have to say, I blew it. I'm so sorry. Will you forgive me? Right, it's all the really good parenting principle, but we have to model it. And my kids see me pray, we pray before I left on this trip, I got them up.
We joined hands and I said, I'm going to pray for you. And I prayed for them. I said, Lord, just help them continue to become the men that you're creating them to be. Wow. That's solid.
That's so good. Rich, again, thank you for being with us here, Focus on the Family. This is great stuff. Thank you for having me. And again, I want to say thank you for what you have done for those three boys you adopted.
Awesome job.
Well, your ministry, Focus on the Family, has equipped me to become a better parent.
So I want that for other parents too. Thank you guys for your ministry. And to those of you listening, we hope this episode has equipped you to disciple your children, whatever age they are. And if you want to learn more about the different styles of leadership, I want to encourage you to get a copy of Rich's book, Discipleship is Leadership. We have copies for you here at Focus on the Family.
When you make a monthly pledge of any amount, we'll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for being part of the support team. Your donations allow us to offer resources to parents so they can raise their children in Christ. We had a woman named Kate, who is a mother of six, tell us that Focus on the Family gave her many parenting tips and resources, including Brio Mag. And Adventures and Odyssey. And she said, every little resource ordered through Focus on the Family has been instrumental in nuggets and seeds of faith that have been planted in my kids.
You have made parenting so much easier in this culture that is against what the Bible stands for. And I would just add: our commitment is to continue to meet the needs of parents and reach more children for Christ. But we need your help year-round to keep this ministry going.
So be a partner with us. And if a monthly gift doesn't work for you right now, we get it. We also will send you the book for a one-time gift of any amount. Yeah, donate today to the Ministry of Focus on the Family and request your copy of Rich Griffith's book when you call 800-232-6459. That's 800, the letter A and the word family.
Or get details when you click the links in the show notes. And while you're there, be sure to sign up for our free Agent Stage e-newsletters, where you'll get specifically tailored information every week for your child or your children. And that link is at the website. And join us next time as Lee Strobel identifies the heart of your teens' faith struggles and shows you how to guide them through those questions. These questions don't come in a vacuum.
They're not just intellectual conundrums. They're often attached to emotional issues. A child may feel isolated for some reason, and they want to know why God seems so hidden. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us. And it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need.
I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at refocus with JimDaily.com. Yeah.
