This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. We're grateful for their partnership in helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. To learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. Yeah. If they start talking about a game, they start talking about Roblox or VR chat or whatever it might be.
Tell me about it. Sit down with them. You may not understand it all. But that's when you need to say, Kate, what is a portal? you know, and get them to define that.
And what are you what do you do in this world? What do you do in this game? Be curious, be understanding. And then you know, there are some boundaries you need to set. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most.
I'm Dave Wilson. And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today.
So, today we're going to be talking about gaming with purpose. Is that possible, do you think? Yes, it's definitely possible. Our kids do it. They love it.
Do they do it with a purpose? Yeah, fun. Pleasure. That's true. And there's probably a bigger purpose which Frank and Jonathan are going to take us into today.
So it's going to be a great conversation. And maybe you're thinking, I'm not a gamer. This doesn't relate to me. But we can all make a dent where we're sent because God's given us passions and things we love, and we can always bring the gospel into those areas. Yeah, and that's what these guys are doing, and it's pretty exciting.
So let's go. It's an untapped world. It's a people group. It's a people group. Yeah.
Yeah. And you can reach people. I mean, we've East Asia, Middle East, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, we've gotten conversations. All over the world.
Now, because of time zone, people tend to be on a little more at night. And I would also say another thing is like, more times than I care to admit, but I feel like I've been there to save someone. I remember a conversation recently. when I asked somebody, how are you doing? And they were like, not great.
Okay, can you Do you want to share a little bit? And, you know, sometimes there's a little trepidation, like they don't want to get into all the details, but more times than not, someone is willing to share what's going on in their life because there is that amanity of like just being kind of an avatar. And you're not near me, you're maybe across the globe. And this person was like, I'm just having a rough day. My girlfriend just broke up with me.
I think I want to end my life. And that has happened more times than I. Care to Count. Um Where the suicidal tendencies, the depression, the loneliness. I talked to that person.
I said, I can't be there with you, but I can be here for you. And as we were going through and talking, I said, is there someone that can come? sit in the room with you and he said not for a while And I said, okay, I'll stay with you as long as I can. And I think I went over my lunch break. I do know that.
And I got to share about family life and what we do here and how we reach families, how we reach blended families and marriages, and just kind of talked about anything. And I shared a little bit about video games and some of the games I like to play. And they shared about some of the stuff that they like to play. And I really truly believe that by the end of that, as I remember taking my headset off. And just in tears for what God, like, and I was in a space by myself and met this person.
And so, after that conversation, being able to pray with them, knowing that by the end of that two hours, they were not. at that point thinking they were like Yeah, very thankful. that I Shared with them and talked to them, and I've got to pray with them. And so, when you ask, like, why do you do this? I think it's like those moments where.
Somebody says, I don't want to be here anymore. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to be here so that you're still here and continue to pray over them, pray with them. We've connected with people like in our Discord, where we've been able to build relationships that are longer than just that, you know, 15-minute or hour-long or two-hour-long conversation. That's why.
Because. They're not going to step necessarily into a church. They're not going to, at least right now in their life, they're not going to step into a church. They may never. Hear the gospel if we don't go and share it.
Yeah, so like that guy, do you end up staying in touch? Yeah, I mean, if that relationship. Seems to Hit it off, or you know, there's like a bond there. Like, sometimes I'll just ask them: hey, is it okay if we become friends? And so, you can friend somebody, I can click on their avatar and say, you know.
Ask them to be my friend. Or like Facebook. You can hire five of them and become a friend. And then every time I go on, if they're online, I will see them in my sidebar with my friends, just like you would on Facebook. I can see when they're there and I can actually join them if they're in a place that it's like, it'll say, you know, join.
And I'll just click on join and a portal will show up and I'll. Zap over to where they're at. You guys, I'm just thinking of the conversations I've had over the years of people that are very judgmental when it comes to this kind of life. Like, what kind of person would get on this? Like, they have no life.
I'll tell you who'd get on that kind of thing: Jesus to save souls. Like, he would go anywhere to rescue his lost children. And so I look at that and I think. How many did you say? 33 million are on Roblox?
The numbers I heard from my friend Bruce is I think 380 million monthly active users.
So every month is coming onto Roblox playing. And not all of them are like on headsets. You know, it's phone or tablet or headset. I mean, there are just that many people. It's an untapped world for the gospel of Jesus.
And if it's your thing, like this is like we have a son who was a total gamer into all of that. He loved that world. And instead of poo-pooing it, like, it'll life, that kind of thing, you're thinking. No, this could become a part of your life that could be redemptive for the gospel. Yeah, for sure.
I do remember a leader a number of years ago in the digital space within Crew said, we go where people are at. And so if there's a lot of people who are there, like we don't necessarily want to leave them in the same place in the same way where they're at, but you go and you share and a lot of it listening. Empathizing, you know, asking questions, showing care, care for their soul. I mean, we want to go in these spaces and and it's It's always on. It's just always, it's just like anytime.
Okay, let's pray and go. Like, and yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, when you said that, I thought we do that ministry-wise in any other arena. If there's a Super Bowl. We try to be there.
The Olympics. Crew Family Life have people on site. To be light and to seek out opportunities to be Jesus. Nobody's thinking about this world. This is bigger than all those worlds.
It's really big. And I will mention one other thing that Ober said is: so, again, the platform VR Chat is one of them: Roblox, there's all these.
So, if we go in to say, VRChat, we have a conversation and it's really good. It's like, hey, I'd love to see you. You know, you come here very often, like, maybe we can connect. By the way, do you use Discord? That's another tool, a platform that we can go.
And a lot of them do. And so I actually just take up my headset up and I say, hey, I would love to hear. And then I type it in. They're like, yeah, sure. My name is, oh, great.
I type it in and put my headset back down. And then after that, I will send them a friend request on Discord. And then you're just connected anytime. You don't have to be in the world. You can text them.
You can send them a video. You can listen. You can do video chat. Yeah, so we try to couple that the in-person in the virtual space with a strategy and then we can be, you know, and for many people that we've met. It's VR and Discord, and you're talking, and then, hey, join me in this.
And you invite them to the community. Hey, my friends are over here. We're going to do this. really bringing them into community. And so, yeah, it's been really cool how God has started to build this out.
Do you ever try to bridge it then for them to find a church or community that way, like in real life? Yeah, I mean, that is a goal, is to connect them with other believers in their communities. I think the hard thing is because they are. You know, from all over, you know, I've got to know somebody, you know, in that area. And that's where having the Discord is kind of a stepping stone because they may on there find somebody else who is a believer, who is going to church.
And they're like, oh, we're just a town away. I mean, I know there have been people that I've had conversations with that got plugged into our Discord that then found a church to go to.
So it is possible. Yeah. And actually, as Ober mentioned, we want to connect them, you know, physical reality, the church, a place where they can, my friend says, a place where they can get a hug. And so there is a story that I'll briefly share.
So we were, my friend Jeff and I were in a spaceship world and it was kind of noisy and we were like, oh, there's just a lot of commotion and stuff. We're not, it's harder to get in conversation. The spaceship was loud.
Well, the people would be loud inside the spaceship. I don't remember the rumbling of the spaceship as much.
Now, when you say loud, are people talking or is it all texting? Yep, it's all talking. People are talking. In your own voice or is it in your own voice? I mean, well.
Well, some people will modulate their voice where it might be synthesized or you're like in a room that's loud. Yeah, it can be. The same thing with like if I'm closer to you, your voice is louder. If I go back, the same thing. If I hear you on the left, I look over and it's like it's all spatial audio.
So we're in this part of the spaceship. It's kind of a bunch of people and there's this 3D drawing. They're drawing and just like.
So we're like, wow, maybe we can, it's a little easier. Let's go over to this corridor. And so we walk over, and we saw an avatar, look like a woman avatar, a female avatar. And Jeff and I just went in and were like, Hey, how are you doing? And then she started speaking to us.
And we're like, My friend and I, you know, we come from a church, we like to church, really, church. We're like, yeah. And so she was from East Asia. She's in East Asia at the time. And she's speaking English.
And she's speaking English with an accent, and we could understand her some. And she's like, oh, you know, I'm in, she mentioned a certain country in East Asia. And she was like, I want to go to church. Because I'm here in East Asia, and it's, you know, and we said, guess what? You can go to church right now if you want to.
20 seconds later, I counted actually for my 20 seconds, we're in a church. But what we didn't notice was like, hey, Jeff and Frank and this other woman, and then there's a fourth person. And we're like, Welcome. And this fourth person actually said, Oh, hi. I said, I heard your conversation.
I was curious about church. And then I zipped through the portal just before it closed. Come on. And I came in and I just was curious. And so we're like, and we got to know him.
He's just a really great kid. He ends up being a student. Here in the US. And just got to know him more and said, Hey, you want to come back to this church on Sunday when they have a service? Sure, he came.
It was so cool to have him there. And the next week they had, it was a fellowship time, and they have a virtual campfire in a virtual park, and the church is going to gather. And he came and he loved it, and it was just really great.
So eventually, we got to know him more, and he got to know him. We spend time. In virtual reality, in Discord, and that. And then he wrote me on Discord and said, You know, I want to let you know I'm a Christian. Whoa, this is so cool.
And so we connected him with his local, the crew movement there at his school through Discord. He's connected now with people right around him. Yeah, like when you were sharing that story, you know, we talked a little bit about lunch.
Some people would say, oh, you're replacing the church. You're a barrier to church. Rather than a pathway, you would say it's a pathway. It's a pathway. You're always leading them to the.
The real world, the physical world. The physical world. I'll share a little bit. This might be an abridged version, but as far as how I got to here.
So, I've been playing video games since I was little. My stepdad and I played the Legend of Zelda game. We would go into it, into our own little save file, and play. Play through the game and share notes in a little notebook back and forth.
So that was my first foray into video gaming. And that has continued on in a lot of different ways.
So I've pretty much had like every video game system that came out. I've got played in a lot of video games. I'm even reviewing video games. And now I'm also streaming on Twitch, playing video games, and people are coming and watching. And what I mean by a pathway is that there was a time, probably about a year ago now, I played a video game.
And In all this too, one of the other side quests I'm on is I run a video game club at a local college in Pennsylvania where I'm from. And I have anywhere from like 15 to 20 students coming to our club nights on Mondays and Thursdays, playing video games together. I mean, they're coming into a building, not coming into a physical building. They come. Yeah, they come and play video games.
And so they'll play together.
Sometimes they're just playing their own game.
Sometimes they're playing a group game of four to eight players. And In that time, and in what I was sharing about streaming games on Twitch, I had some students coming and watching me play games. And so I was playing a game one time, and it was about a woodsman who had recently lost his wife. And the game takes you through the first year of that loss, and you go through. Basically, him going through grief and doing his everyday tasks.
Imagine having to garden and cut trees down and take care of the homestead and all the repairs. And through that, he has these flashbacks of when his wife was alive and with him and the joy that she brought. And so you go through these ups and downs of his life. And as I'm playing this game, I'm sharing about. Very personal part of my life, and that was.
Um, so I started talking about video gaming and my stepdad and the way that he and I bonded over video games, and he Passed away several years ago. It's probably been eight or ten years now. And as I was playing this game talking about loss of this woodsman to his wife, I was just sharing and I had a couple students that were on my stream watching and texting, you know, in the chat. And I just started sharing about the feelings that I went through and even today, like some of the stuff that I just remember and grieve over. I have two teenage daughters that he, you know, will never see, you know, graduate.
And so I'm sharing that. And one of my students, Chris, said, you know, he came to me later and he said, the way that you shared about your relationship with Jesus, Just made me realize that I need to get back to church. And so he's one of many students. I was taking anywhere from like three to five guys to our church on Sunday mornings. And so we have a church bros discord.
And I just will send out and say, hey, who needs a ride to church? And so I pick these guys up and take them to church. And that's like just a small part of how all this comes together. One of the things I've shared. Probably over the last year, several, several times, is that the Venn diagram of who I am.
Is quickly becoming a circle. And it's that love of Jesus, love of video games, and making sure that others know about Jesus. In the past, those circles. barely touched. Mm.
You know, I lived a separate life of a Christian. I lived a separate life of a video gamer. And I wasn't really sharing the gospel with others. And over the last Two years now of being a part of video game outreach, being a part of this advisor position with these young men and young women in our club, I've been able to. Build relationship.
with these students i'm with them two days a week at least, because we hold other tournaments and other events. I'm sharing and streaming online. I'm not afraid to pray for people when I'm streaming. Very much in the last two years, those circles Or those pieces of that Venn di Venn diagram have become a circle that just overlaps. And isn't that the goal for all of us?
Like I think about you, Dave. You've done that your whole life. Like you're a pastor, but even if you weren't your whole life, one of your joys and fun is sports. Another one's music, and you've always used that To draw people into the gospel. It's my portal.
It is your portal. Yeah. But you walk in, like you said. I mean, even in working with pro athletes, it's like, am I a football player who's a Christian? Or am I a Christian who plays football?
I'm a Christian first, and everything else I do is an extension of that.
So you're a Christian who's a gamer, and you bring Jesus everywhere you go. I mean, family life's. Strategy is make an impact on your corner of the world. You know, that's your corner. I always say, make a dent where you're sent.
And the question then is, well, I think you're sent, you're in ministry. I'm like, no, wherever you are, is where you're sent. And what are your passions?
So, whatever porter you're walking into, you are sent to make a dent, mean an impact. Yeah. Whatever way it be, this conversation could end up there. It may not. I'm just going to float around this world and see where God's going to, you know, attach me to somebody that maybe has a need that I am the answer to bring Jesus, right?
Sure. I mean, how beautiful is this? I never knew this. I know. My mind is blown.
You know, and some parents are thinking, my kids are in some room, and now they might go, there's a Christian probably in that room. Who's there? On purpose. With a prayer to use me, God. And if there's not a person in that room that's a Christian that maybe we'll share with them, they can be that person.
Their kid or the mom and dad, they could be going into these spaces and saying, How can we bring Jesus to this game or this world or this portal? Yeah. Let your light shine. We meet a ton of couples who say family life helped them when they needed it the most. And that's what being a family life partner is all about: helping others find that same encouragement and tools that you found right here.
And we'd love for you to join us.
So click the donate button at familylifetoday.com and become a partner today. What would you say to the parents whose kids are gaming? And right now they're like, I don't like this. This is something I don't want them to do. I didn't.
I'd be like, what are you guys doing? You're wasting your life. You're wasting your time. Talk to that parent. What would you, how would you give another perspective?
So I mean I think Again, it goes back to communication. I think, as families, we need to make sure we're communicating because I think that's a huge lack, generally speaking, that we're not. talking to each other. But then I think as a parent, you really need to think, okay, why does my son or daughter? Enjoy this.
That's the question. Be curious. Like, tell me about this world. Tell me what you love about it.
So, if they start talking about a game, they start talking about Roblox or VR chat or whatever it might be, there's. Thousands, tens of thousands of games out there. Tell me about it. Sit down with them. You may not understand it all.
But that's when you need to say, okay, what is a portal? you know and get them to define that And what are you doing in this world? What do you do in this game? Get them to define it, understand, like be curious, be understanding, and then you know, there are some boundaries you need to set, you know, if. Grades start slipping, or if it seems like they're just spending all their time and their chores aren't getting done.
Obviously communicate. At our house, like one of the rules is, you know, you need to read a book as long as you're going to play a video game. Oh, I like that one. And so, unfortunately, that means we spent a lot of money on books and a good fair amount of money on video games, but it has turned into a conversation piece. And, like I said earlier.
When you're going to play this game, what are your goals or what is your intent? What game are you playing? If you're going in there and you really don't have a plan. It's not going to fly. And so, you know, you set boundaries, you set, you know, responsibilities.
But I think if you have a child that is playing, you are a young student that is playing. You know, show them this video of this podcast and say, hey, these guys are going in sharing the love of Jesus. What if you do that? Or what if we do that together? And that becomes your mission field.
But what if it's like, hey, while you're in a lobby waiting to start your match, what if you just say, hey, what are you learning? And then maybe it's like, hey, well, I'm learning about. What Jesus did. In sharing the gospel to thousands of people while also feeding them. Oh, well, what is that?
Like, tell me a little bit about that. Their friends might start getting curious about who Jesus is or other things that are going on in your life. Like, you know, how is your family? And then they start sharing. About, you know, maybe struggles with their mom and dad, then you know, like, hey, this is something I could be praying about.
And then, as a kid with your friends, like, maybe you're like, hey, I could start praying for you. And they're like, whoa, what is this prayer? And it just starts conversations. And because that, Your student may be playing with someone that goes to their school. That's an easy end to then say, hey, come to youth group.
come to church. Yeah, I think it's easy as parents, you know, when we don't. Really understand their world, that world that they're in, whether it's gaming or music or whatever, it's easy to be judgmental. And rather than curious to say hey I wanna I wanna understand why And what you like about this? I picked up this back then, a CD of something our son was listening to.
And I'm like, I was there, I watched this happen. This is garbage, and we don't listen to this at our house, and I threw it in the trash. Dave gets it out of the trash. He says, Tell me why you like this music, which I'm like, oh, I need to be better at this stuff.
So to enter into our kids' worlds, but I love that you guys are entering into a whole world to bring the gospel of Jesus.
Well done. Yeah, way to go. I mean, There's a fear that parents have. And part of us, we don't know the world, we don't understand it, you know, and there's evil, dark people there, which. They're everywhere.
So, you know, it's one thing to stand 50 yards away from the darkness and yell at it. Or do we walk into it with the light and say, We're going to bring the light of Jesus right into it.
Now, they're dangers, of course. Absolutely. You got to be very careful to do it. Like you said, two by two. Go with your kids.
If they'll let you and say, We can, this can be a ministry field. Way to go. Yeah, well done, guys. This is exciting. I think a lot of parents are going to be like, wow.
Is there anything that they need to know as a parent or place that they can go to do this kind of ministry? You need to start a portal where you train parents.
Well, I will say for the parents and others who are inclined to, if they're curious and they're inclined to look into this more. The Jesus Film Project has just recently released a metaverse ministry toolkit. Oh, perfect.
So, this is a compilation of tips and suggestions on how people, individuals, small groups, churches, parachurches, anybody, can get it free off the website, download it, and look at it. There's one for Roblox, there's one for VR Chat, and they're saying, This is a little starter guide if you like to look into this more.
So, that's the first one on the show notes.
Okay, we do have a crew gaming area where people can, parents can come and get some resources, they get plugged into our. Our Discord, maybe even. Talk to us, find us, and maybe even for their student to come join. My daughter's in there, and she has met several people, one of which that she's met in real life, our friend Jeff's daughter, and the two of them. Have done some gaming together.
They've met in person, but they've also met virtually. How do they find you? Yeah, we do have the gaming at crew.org email. Oh, okay. Yeah.
But we can make sure to link that. But if I'm in this portal, how do I find you specifically? In VR chat. You can find me with the name J Ober, J-A-Y-O-B-E-R. And Cool noodles.
Cool noodle? Yeah. Really? I'm cool noodles. Yep.
And so you just, as you type it in, it'll show their avatars. And so. And I get it. I mean, as a parent, I have, you know, there, it's a battleground, whether it's VR or football or music and all that. The enemy is also trying to make inroads.
And so, yeah, so I understand that. I mean, and anything could become an idol. I mean, you know, but yeah, if parents are like, well, I'd like to find out more. I'd like to engage with my son or daughter, find, you know, be curious, what did they like about it? And yeah, they can reach out to us.
And we can put in the show notes specific ways. Perfect. Yeah, we'll do it. Thanks, guys. Those show notes are at familylifetoday.com.
Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah.
