Your marriage can be healed. A hope-restored marriage-intensive from focus on the family can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days. We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage.
Discover more at hoperestored.com. That's hoperestored.com. Instantly, God did something in my heart when I read those words, babies with Down syndrome. And it was instantaneous, and it was, I was not excited about this. I wasn't like, yes, Lord, let's step towards this.
I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. And like Josh and I lag behind and he's like, what's going on? I tell him, and I'm waiting for him to say, oh no, that's not what we're going to do. And he goes, yeah, I think we should pray about that.
That's Heather Abis remembering a significant turning point in her marriage and family. And you'll hear more from her and her husband Josh today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Poland. You know, last time we featured a great conversation that we recorded a few years ago with this remarkable couple.
Heather and Josh described their torturous years of infertility, wondering where God was and why he wasn't answering their prayers for a baby. Then the Lord revealed a different path for their family, the path of foster care and adoption. Heather and Josh were willing to embrace that, and now they have three children they've adopted, two of them with Down syndrome. And you know, John, some of my heroes are parents who are raising children with special needs, especially when you are opting in to take care of those kids. That can be a challenging job, and my heart goes out to you if that's your story.
Here at Focus on the Family, we want to encourage you any way we can. One great resource we have is our special needs parenting audio collection. This collection features some of our best programs and stories from parents just like you. Over five hours of inspiring content, and I know you'll find it helpful. Best of all, it's completely free.
Contact us if you'd like to learn more. Yeah, you can sign up for that collection. The link is in the show notes.
Okay. We also want you to know about the book that Heather Avis has written capturing their remarkable story. It's The Lucky Few: Finding God's Best in the Most Unlikely Places. Check that out on the website as well. And now, here's part two of our conversation with Josh and Heather Avis on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Heather and Josh, welcome back to Focus. Thank you. Thank you. It was so wonderful last time. You spoke so boldly, so transparently, and I'm sure I know listeners connected with where you are at, what you have walked through, how God has sustained you.
And again, John, if people miss that, I would get that through a download or just call us. We'll get you the CD, whatever we can do. But it was really inspiring, and that's a big word to use. I want to continue on. We dropped off last time where you had been working with an agency.
You had just taken the trip to Romania, a missions trip. The agency had texted you or emailed you saying we have two kids, but they both have Down syndrome. It's hard to place Down syndrome children. But right at that moment, you kind of thought, okay, maybe. I do want to say it's almost angelic.
I mean, most people. would say, I can't carry that burden. That's too much for me. The Lord will know. I've got so much that's going on.
How did you process that? How did you say, I could do this? You've only been married four years. You're young in your mid-20s. This is going to be a load.
This isn't just normal parenting. Definitely. Um, Godrud kept nudging us along the way. We had a week left in Europe that Josh and I just did together and went to Greece. And we spent that entire week, the majority of our conversations were around This idea of adopting a child with Down syndrome.
And Josh would make lists, pros and cons lists. I'm not that organized in the way that I think, but Josh is. And he would do lists, like, all right, pros and cons. And Um what it really came down to is as people who love Jesus and who desire to have a heart that beats like his, Not one of the items on the con list was a good enough item to say no. To being parents to a child who needed parents, that at the end of the day, there was a baby who needed a mom and a dad.
We were a mom and a dad. That was it. And that's enough. And that's enough. And I think that's a huge piece of adoption: at the end of the day, there's a child who needs a family.
You can be a family, and that can be enough. Um We moved forward in that way, and even after saying, Okay, yes, let's learn more. We got home from Europe, called a social worker. It's a very long story, but we, even in that moving forward, it was like, Okay. It was a roller coaster.
We're so excited. We got this and then. An hour later, no, no, no, no, we cannot do this. What would this look like for our life? This is terrifying, this is overwhelming, we're not equipped.
And then the next day, okay, we can do it, we can do it.
So it wasn't just a seamless, and I appreciate that.
So that vacillation, did it come from both of you, or was it one of you predominantly that you were retreating after going forward? Or was it a shared kind of thing where, depending upon the day, Josh, you were saying, honey, come on, really? And then the next day it was you. I mean, that's completely natural. I understand this.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it was definitely a process for sure. It was up and down. I think it was a lot of hard conversations where I would pull her up, or she would pull me up, or you would try to convince the other, or and even hard conversations with family, to be honest, and hard conversations with our support around us, saying, Are you sure about this? And so Were family members saying, hey, don't do this?
I think they were just protective of us. No one ever flat out said, don't do this. But it was a lot of like, oh, okay, tell us more. Why are you doing this? I have always been.
Like a cheerleader for the underdogs since I was really little, like, since my parents. Can recall, and since I can recall, I've had this heart that breaks for the brokenhearted. And so my mom, I think, was worried that I was trying to rescue, that I was trying to do this big noble thing and rescue this poor poor child, and that my intentions may be. We weren't going to be healthy in the long run for me. And I'm her daughter, you know?
So she's looking at me as her daughter, like, how. What is this going to mean for your life? And so I did have a conversation with my mom where I decided to say, hey, mom, you have to trust who you raised me to be, who God's made me to be, and what he's calling us to in this. I need you to just trust right now. Did the question, did you appreciate the question for solidifying the decision you already had in your heart?
Was there any appreciation for your mom's forcefulness with that? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I could see myself as a dad of a now 17-year-old in a few years. He might make that decision. I might ask that question in part just to make sure that my adult son or daughter really has counted the cost.
Right. Yeah. And so, and I think that's also why we. went to our parents and went to our people who we could love and trust because we needed That's that yeah, that support and uh the different perspective. We need people to be pushing back 'cause it was a big decision for us.
And we I was twenty seven years old, you know, and it was a big decision because I we also at any given time could have said no. Firmly and officially, and then probably within a few weeks, been receiving a phone call for this healthy infant we've been waiting for. Sure. Let me this just the thought came to me. Do you think either of your parents Did they think, what are we being pulled into here when we have to babysit and caretake?
Was there any of that consideration that you're aware of? I'm sure. I mean, I hadn't thought about that, but that would be a normal grandparenting question here. Yeah, I think there is a lot of people's first reaction: what does this mean long-term? Like, what are you going to do with this child when you're gone?
Who's taking care of this child as an adult? And things are very different now in the Down syndrome world. That narrative is really changing significantly. That's a whole other topic. But definitely, I think all of everyone in our family was like, okay.
This has Huge implications on the entire family because it does, you know? And even my older sister who had two kids at the time, and thinking of, My future daughter's cousins, and that there's no burden or pressure on anybody, but. If the day comes that no one can care for our daughter and she does need extra care, is it my nephew and niece? You know, like that, everyone here is affected. And before that child enters our lives, the child Down syndrome, I think that it is this idea of this is.
This is a lot, this is heavy, this is too much. And then inter said child, and everyone's tune changes almost instantly to like, oh no, I get her, I get her, I get her, like this battle over that. I have a smile on my face because I know the kids are with the grandparents right now. That's proof in the pudding. You know, some people, Heather and Josh, may not even understand the diagnosis of Down syndrome.
They hear it. We've heard it in the news lately. There's some things that have happened in other countries. Um what are the obstacles? What are the hurdles?
What does a Down syndrome child display? Yeah, so Down syndrome is just the um 21st chromosome, they have three 21st chromosomes.
So everyone with Down syndrome has one extra chromosome.
So it's called trisomy 21.
So that's the scientific. Description, medical, I don't know. The thing that with Down syndrome is there are some similar characteristics.
So often it's like there's physical, so like an almond shaped eye, usually a little bit smaller in stature, flat face, like a flatter nose. Low muscle tone. Low tone is very common. And some kind of an intellectual disability. And then there can be heart defects.
I think it's about 60% of kids at Johnson are born with a heart defect, and hearing problems, vision problems. um higher likelihood for leukemia, higher likelihood for Al Alzheimer's.
So, those are all characteristics that are terrifying, right, on paper. I think that we forget as people that when you're giving birth to a child who has no special needs, that a lot of those are the same risks as they get older, right? Like there are if you're gonna look at all there's all these possibilities for this child who's totally healthy at birth. They could also Have any one of these things. Not to say that St.
Burdown syndrome.
Now, let's move through that story a little more because you didn't stop there. This is number one. Right. What happened? What's it like bringing Mason home night one, week one?
Oh, gosh. Oh my gosh. Month one. I mean, right. We have to back up a tiny bit that when we first.
So, we say, yes, we wanna move forward with possibly adopting a child with Down syndrome. And then the social worker says, Oh, okay.
Well, one of those babies was placed, and the other one is so, we just found out all these medical needs, we're not looking at placing her. And we recognized later that they thought she wasn't gonna live. They thought they were in her life.
So they're protecting everybody. They're protecting their adoption. She wasn't an option. They had just discovered this lung condition called pulmonary hypertension, and that her heart defect was more severe than they had recognized. And at six weeks old, which is when we had found out about her, she was going to go in for a heart surgery, not open heart, but like a very serious heart surgery to help prolong her life.
And that's where we had called and said we're interested. And they're saying, oh my gosh, we don't know that she's going to live through the surgery. But they're not telling us that.
So we hang up the phone and go, oh my gosh, what if we don't get a kid with Down syndrome? And we recognize that God had done a complete shift in our hearts in that regard. And then we went along our lives. And a month later, they call and say, Hey, that little girl we told you about went through a surgery. We have a better grasp on her health.
Are you still interested? We said yes. And we go in, learn more about her. And all of a sudden, Down syndrome is a back burner issue because she's on medication. She's on oxygen 24-7.
Her lung condition is so severe that they don't know how long she's going to live. And we're just like, oh, what are you doing, Lord? It was very frustrating. And became a baby with this very medically fragile. Right.
Right. Yeah. And so now we're not just saying yes to Down syndrome. We're saying yes to. We don't know.
But you're pressing ahead. Right. Some of us are shaking our heads. Oh, I know. No, we were shaking our heads and still moving forward.
Shaking your head and pressing ahead. We didn't want to say yes, but we knew no wasn't the answer.
So we kept taking steps forward. That's what that looked like for us in that moment. And I think when I talk to a lot of people who say, How do you. Move forward when things are so scary and things are so challenging. And for us, it was one foot in front of the other.
Literally, like, I'm going to lift up my foot, I'm going to put it down. I have no idea where my second step is, and I don't have to know that. I just have to know the steps. You know, I want to just bring in some of the statistics because it's so important. 70% of babies that are.
in utero that are diagnosed with Down syndrome are aborted. Yeah. I mean, 70%. I know there's been, as I mentioned before, a lot in the news about Iceland and other countries now that almost 100% are aborted. This kind of turns that all on its head because some of the most powerful comments that I heard is that why are we discriminating against children that just have some different Physical attributes and they are impaired in different ways, but they're still human beings made in the image of God that need protection.
As parents who have adopted Down syndrome children, What does that make you feel like when they are talking about eradicating Down syndrome? By aborting everyone who's diagnosed with it. Yeah, it makes me feel at first it's like, wait, what? Yeah. That doesn't make any sense.
Like, why would you do that? um because they're the best. And then it's infuriating, and then it's a little bit terrifying for our humanity as a whole. Like that, as humans, we're okay or we're wanting to live in a world. where everyone is.
Perfect with air quotes, or doesn't have different abilities, and then you can go more concentrated as the church. and say, okay, if if people with different abilities are being formed in their mother's wombs, created in the image of God. As they are, right?
So then, if they are image-bearers of God, We're missing out on a huge piece of God if we're not willing to do life intimately with Him or let them live it all. Amen. And Heather and Josh, the statement here: this is not a political statement. This is the condition of humanity. This is something that is in us.
How do we treat one another? Do we do that by simply killing them? Yeah. I mean it seems, and you've got to be somewhat intimidating. to that community who wants to eradicate Down syndrome.
I mean, for you to say, no, we will love these children. We will take these children in. God has given me a purpose in doing this. They must go, what? Right.
It's got to be an anathema to them. Definitely, and I think that the majority of people who are In the world in which they're choosing to eradicate Down syndrome, are people who are not doing life with Down syndrome? I don't know this for a fact, but I could just want to say with a lot of confidence that chances are these people do not have a loved one with Down syndrome. the decision is being made purely out of fear and ignorance. And so it's not even a pro-choice, pro-life issue with this, what's happening with the Down syndrome world and community.
It's an idea of are people with Down syndrome human? Are they worthy of life? Are they worthy of acceptance? And in the church, again, are they image bearers of God? Do they have giftings and talents like the rest of us?
Can we see God in them? The answer is yes to all those questions.
So people are deciding to terminate a pregnancy based on fear and ignorance.
So then giving birth to that.
So every time a child with Down syndrome is terminated, we're just giving birth to more fear and more ignorance and then living in that. Heather, I've got to ask you because I know every mama's heart is out there saying, where is Macy at today? What's happened? Is she doing well? Right?
Right, right.
Okay, so answer that question. Yeah, I know, I will answer that. And I'll go back just a little bit because you had said first days at home, first weeks at home. What's it like? And so we say yes to this child.
It's terrifying. We bring her home, oxygen and all. And there's a baby in my arms. I'm a mom, and it's the most incredible life-giving experience of my life. And so there we are, parents.
It's all we know. We don't know any different. The next day, our very first day is parents. We go and meet with her surgeon to schedule open heart surgery.
So hello, welcome to parenthood. And then a month later, she has open heart surgery. It goes great. Two years later, she's miraculously cured from this lung condition and off-oxygen and all medications. And so we are now front row seat to miracles, seeing God's goodness, like this gift to get to experience that.
in and see God in that way. And so we just held this child like, Oh my gosh, this is the best yes we've ever said. We've never, we never would have known God so fully had we not taken this big risk. And today she's nine. Currently, she has a cold, so that's a bummer.
But she's doing great. She's amazing. She's thriving. Yeah. Health wise, we see cardiology and pulmonology every two years.
We go in, they're like, She's great. Get out of here. That's what you want to hear. Yeah. No other health issues.
Josh, you are feeling this emotion, man. Your eyes are all water. This story still gets me choked up. Yeah, it's I mean, we you just see we serve such a good God, and he loves us so much. And so we got a front row seat to see Um this miracle baby And you know, we just celebrated her ninth birthday.
And I remember when we talked to her cardiologist early on. And he said this lung thing is really scary. We can do the heart surgery, but we can't guarantee that she'll live. Past eight. Because of the lung issue.
Yes. Wow. And so nine was a big one for us.
So you just celebrated nine years old. That is good. Miracles continue to happen. And those miracles, meaning you didn't stop there. No.
You ended up continuing to adopt. You adopted two more children. Describe those two kiddos. Oh, gosh. So we went into our next adoption just a lot wiser, I think, and having seen God so.
Clearly and fully through our first daughter, and a lot more humbled. And so we went into our second adoption. God will take any child. In the world who do you want for us? And we end up with some boundaries.
Man, you're making me feel better. I mean, we taught you that. We were closed fists on the first one. Like, we wanted we had the list, we had that. This one, we walked in and said, God, our hands are open.
So, but we did. Your hands were up. My arms were like any child in the world.
So, yeah, so it was fitting. You were enjoying this mommy thing. Oh, it was the best. It was so good. I mean, it's so hard, right?
All the mamas, all the parents out there know it is no joke. Parenthood is so hard. That is so true.
So, we end up with this little girl who has no health issues. She's got some family, birth family history that's pretty heavy and serious that we had to talk about just very briefly because we knew we'd say yes. This is truly. This is truly, yeah. We named her truly little girl, and she's we knew birth mother was Guatemalan, and birth father is unknown.
She came home at six months old. Um and We've done DNA tests and things, so she's half African-American, half Guatemalan, and she is just a Spitfire. She's a world changer, but she's sick, so that's really hard. And you know, in the book, you touched on this, and I'm glad we have a couple of minutes here to dig into this because you said she's your strong-willed child. Those of us with strong-willed kids, we're all laughing, going, yeah, I got one of those.
But you said something in there that at first I was struggling with, and that was her attitude and her behavior. You came to the conclusion that I have a role in this. The way I'm parenting her may not be helping her. I kind of had a little conviction about that.
So why did you look to yourself as the problem, not truly the strong-willed child? Because we really get on those kids in a bad way. You know, it's not me, it's because of you. But maybe you can teach us how to look at it differently. Sure.
I think that ultimately I'm the adult and she is a tiny child. And so it's not fair, right? It's not fair to say, hey, three-year-old. Mature, and act right, act like an adult, shape up, and She was so different than Mason, so people who have multiple kids. And I thought, hey, I'm a really good parent, and then entered truly.
I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing.
So she was like a refiner's fire for me. What did that look like on a day-to-day basis? It was really hard. It still is. I mean, she's only six years old and Mason's nine and And Day to day it is just like a lot of grace.
There's a lot of apologizing from from me to her. I apologize often, sometimes daily, for my reaction to her. It's what we're trying to figure out still, and then and it's still, and I think probably forever. Um is God's made her to be a certain way and And maybe that rubs me the wrong way. And I don't wanna squelch that.
Because I need control over these spaces. But she's not gonna let me have that control. That's not bad. She's not a bad kid. She's not outside of God's will.
She's on this path she's supposed to be on, but it's hard for me. Because I'm not her, you know, and we're very different or very similar. But she's arguing a lot with you, I'm guessing. Yeah, yeah, or she's pushing boundaries. Truly is where is the line?
And then she's gonna put her toe over it and she's gonna look at you and go, now what?
Sounds like a healthy family. Right? And I think that's-you know, just family, just family. And we always say the characteristics that Truly has right now that are difficult are gonna serve her so well as an adult.
So, how do we hold those, help her? Manage those and not squelch them. I tell you, parents with a strong-willed child. I think we repeat that. Our pillow talk at night is: I know it's hard right now, but I think it will really serve him well.
Man, Gene and I have had that chat. Yeah. Now you have a third child, and we're running out of time, but describe just quickly your third child. Also, Down syndrome. Yes.
Yes. Yes. So, again, we wanted to be parents again. And this time around, again, we had our hands open. We did it.
We weren't looking to adopt a kid with special needs. And sure enough, he aligned things. And we met a birth mother who was pregnant with a little boy who had Down syndrome. And We brought him home the day after he was born. And August Riker is, I would describe him as he's the bearer of joy.
He really is. He's three years old, three and a half. I love the name, August Riker. Yeah. Sounds like a character in a novel.
We have a beautiful relationship with Birth Mom and. He just fit right in.
Okay, this is the big push now. We're down to the last minute. You're convincing me. You're saying things that I'm warming up to. What should I do next?
I mean, okay, yeah. Maybe I should look into adoption. Maybe I should foster adoption. Maybe I should ask. for a special needs child, maybe Down syndrome, maybe something else.
Push me over the line. Yeah, I think you've got to take that one big step. I think you have to really abandon all those fears or say, great, I'm terrified this is going to overwhelm me.
Okay, I'm still gonna take that step. It really is a step. It's not some giant leap of faith. It's, I'm gonna move forward towards this, recognize that this is God's calling on us if we love Him and we wanna know Him more. Yeah, can I end with this one?
I keep saying that, don't I, John? We're gonna end the program several times today. It's this battle that we have, especially in Western culture. where we have leisure and comfort as our main goal. And it's really.
It's not. Yeah. But how do we shake the shackles? Of that desire to have an easy life, a comfortable life.
Now I'm starting to really put a knife into people's sides and say, Lord, I know you're not calling me to that. That is a big step. That's not a little step. No, you're right. I think that.
As in the West, we are pursuing this idea of like ease and comfort. How do we have this easy, comfortable life? And recognizing that the things that are the most worthy in life are not going to be easy, period. And where God resides, where his heart beats the loudest, is not in those easy, comfortable places.
So, if you want to hear God's heartbeat more fully, understand him more fully, and sit in the worth and value of Life and humanity, then you have to be willing to step into those hard places. You can have easy, that's fine, but you're missing out on the heartbeat of God if you do that. I just, that sounds so much like what the Lord would say to all of us. Heather Avis, author of the book, The Lucky Few. And Josh, her wonderful husband.
Man, you guys, you are rocking it. And it's awesome to see. Thanks for being a great witness. Yeah, thanks.
Well, I hope this couple's wonderful story has encouraged you today. That's been our goal, and that you'll prayerfully consider what role you might play in helping children who are in foster care. There are many ways to get involved. Simply offering to help a foster or adoptive family in your neighborhood or at your church, I think that's the easiest way, is a great place to start. And if you'll check out our Wait No More program in the U.S.
or Waiting to Belong in Canada, you'll find all the information that you need to engage. Of course, we'd also recommend you get a copy of Heather's book, send a gift of any amount to focus on the family, and we'll send it right out to you. It's our way of saying thank you for being a part of the ministry. And one of those financial partners who contributed wrote us and said this: it was a woman named Dolores. She said, When I hear All that you stand for, it draws me to the cross and makes me want to help however I can.
What you, Focus on the Family, do for children who don't have a home touches my heart. That's exactly why we produce programs like this one. That puts a smile on everybody's face. And why we need your help getting the word out about providing good and godly homes for children in foster care. Join Dolores in helping us any way you can with a one-time gift or a monthly pledge.
Anything you can do will make a difference. And let me say thank you in advance for your generosity. Yeah, we welcome your support when you call 800, the letter A and the word family. eight hundred two three two six four five nine. Or donate online and learn more about Wait No More and get your copy of the book The Lucky Few when you click on the links in the show notes.
Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide.
God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at refocus with JimDaily.com. Uh
