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IRA's: Trusting The Hand of God

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil
The Truth Network Radio
March 2, 2019 8:30 am

IRA's: Trusting The Hand of God

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil

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March 2, 2019 8:30 am

Robby is reading a book to his dad about lessons you can learn from sheepdogs. One of the main points the book makes is that the main way to communicate with sheepdogs is by hand signals, not verbal communication. Just like sheepdogs, you have to follow God’s signals as they come into your life.

Hans had a client come into his life when he was just starting Cardinal. Dr. Bob introduced Hans to Ed Slott, the IRA expert. While Hans thought he knew a good amount about IRAs, he learned so much by going through the Ed Slott training. He followed the signals God was giving him and it gave him a whole new way to look at IRAs, especially the tax bill that sometimes comes with IRAs.  

Hans and Robby talk about the 3 couples again this week.

First, the Pennsylvania couple, who wanted to contribute more to their Roth IRA to avoid taxes in retirement. Hans deteremed with the couple that they should not convert their other IRAs but should see if they have Roth options for their 401(k)s. With their IRA money, Hans basically helped them lay out 2 buckets of money to draw from in retirement.

Second, the Indiana couple, who used their IRA money to purchase an annuity which gave them not only income, but possible long-term care benefits as well as a death benefit. It is important to remember there are ways for people with health conditions with IRA savings to still get some protection from long-term care.

Lastly, Hans and Robby discuss QUDs and how you can charitably use your IRA to give back to the kingdom!

Don’t forget to get your copy of “The Complete Cardinal Guide to Planning for and Living in Retirement” on Amazon or on for free!

You can contact Hans and Cardinal by emailing or calling 919-535-8261. Learn more at

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Rob West and Steve Moore
Rob West and Steve Moore
Rob West and Steve Moore
Rob West and Steve Moore

Welcome to finishing well brought you by Cardinal Drive, certified financial planner belongs agile, best-selling author and financial planners helping families finish well for over 40 years of finishing well will examine both biblical and practical knowledge to assist families in finishing well, including discussions on managing Medicare IRA long-term care life insurance and investments and taxes.

Now let's get started.

Finishing well well I'm excited about the show fascinating study today IRAs trusting the hand of God. I got little stories often is the case goes behind that we are finishing well with certified financial planner Hans Schild but you know we been talked a lot about my father on the show now you know he's under hospice care and things are winding down and it's a different season our lives for sure. But my dad's got double vision.

Now he can't read anything in his bed ridden so you know he's destined to watch TV all day, which was drive me crazy. I was like a need to read your book and a friend of mine and Hans and my dad all love dogs James Banks, who does Siebel magazine with us. Hans knows him well wonderful pastor.

He found this book by Philip Keller who wrote the shepherds guide to the 23rd Psalm on lessons from the sheepdog and one of the lessons that he treat teachers and dispose fabulous book is reading it to my dad but actually taught me quite a bit is that you know you can't get that out of first Peter 56 where you humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he might exalt you in due time is tight about that is sheepdog in order to be really good. Needs to be controlled by hand signs rather than by invoice commands.

Because if you're yelling across the field stops they go to the left. It freaks the sheep out and it upsets their diet, etc. so the idea really really intimate relationship between Shepherd and sheepdog would be done with hand signs and he said you know you you get this point in your walk with Christ for you. You understand the Bible and you understand what is VoiceCommands were you note, don't covet most common things but what you do with the Providence with the hand of God. As you see certain things come into your life and end and really your whole story. Hans on how Ed slot and Dr. Bob you know this was all reading hand signs because God had something to teach and yet to be humble because you been doing the stuff your whole life but you didn't realize it really IRAs are a different thing.

Yet it was my choice to focus on people, let's say 60 and over heavy focus on people turning 65 to do my work here and obviously IRAs and IRA knowledge is a big part of that in early planning and knowledge and experience in so I know was heard about this guy at slot that my thinking was a mic and the paid $2000 in travel expenses and the time to go fly a New Yorker somewhere else in the meeting room for two days and learn about the sire RA was IRA wisdom from the sky at slot in so what my clients who came to me and very just, just became a very good friend in very good Christian man and he was a dentist and retired many years and so I was able to help him. He came to us through Medicare supplements through my brother and he I was able to help him by taking his IRA money and using it to purchase long-term care policies as full stories in my book.

She read the book you can you become familiar with it and really out of this thing I I he ended up giving the ad slots book which he had which you'd gotten off a public television asked me to read it, see what I thought of it and I actually used what was in the book to go back and do a whole bunch more planning form of which I was very well compensated.

So I made great commissions. Dr. Bob was very happy for that. I told him what they were, as it was a fiduciary and decided that I was going to use part of that commission to go attended slots class. Another part of that Dr. Bob had a mission of getting Bibles into China and so I gave a very substantial donation to that mission, which was a me feel really good and so that the crux of the story is is I going to this at slot training which is specialties like America's IRA expert thinking you know I got a lot education at a CFP. You can see how you got a Masters degree know what's he going to teach me about IRAs that I don't already know, he and he was about 10 minutes in the thing. I was like Mary had a page of notes and just what was I a can of been more wrong in my opinion of what I was going to get out of that and it wasn't so much new information.

It was the effective application of the information to help people and where I just learned just like I did in the book reading for for for Dr. Bob, just a whole new way to look at IRAs and to help people plan on those and specifically to try to reduce the tax bill and I hope our listeners are catching what you know Tom's a sharing that what we talked about is trusting these hand signals of God, so God we know at this point time Hans you just open up your practice or you are not like I need to go invest money right this South out through the training of something, but God brought Dr. Bob into your life and and through that the book right and enter another part of the story that I happen to know is you sold Dr. Bob $300,000 with a life insurance from his IRA distributions that he was getting while you are going dead right before you went to the at slot banks and so now you come back right menu has mercy in God bringing at slot in your life brought Dr. Bob in your life.

But then right shortly a few weeks later when that Dr. Bob Bestway.

I had just passed the life insurance physical self. All that money and and in the op in a Dr. Bob.

Obviously he was telling me want to go see Jesus right in Internet and and but God brought these things in obviously a whole lot more Bibles went to China. As a result of Dr. Bob going to heaven and and it is more than cool to me that he gave you a foundational understanding of IRAs that we want to share it in today show a little bit of things that really change your whole practice.

They did is just about everybody that's coming up on 65.

They've got some money in an IRA me just in fact if they have money. Most of it is in an IRA is just it.

And so what I learned from Ed slot is you better have a plan to pay the taxes. The whole thing is been about avoiding the taxes that's all the whipping you know we got all this money and we don't have to pay taxes on the growth we didn't have to pay taxes without tax deduction for putting it in there and some people with a good stock market rally have got big balances in their kind of unhappy Street about them and they should be rather awesome right so we want to mention is always that our show is in a finishing well but it's based on responses book, the complete cargo guide to planning for and living in retirement, which today's chapter is one of the seven worries of the seven worst habit. Cardinal Guy don't forget the guide. After Cardinal Cardinal and that chapter on IRAs. Of course, is free to get the PDF or is always on seeking, just go on the website and contact them.

Tom send out the book in your name and address an annual send it. I mean that you want to have the information in this IRA thing that you know is just you know one of the basics that I learned early and in the shows but it's there in your book clearly in on that very beginning page is that there's a big difference between a Roth IRA and a traditional IRA and so when you say that most people come to the 65 they haven't paid taxes those on our Roth IRAs cassettes doesn't arrive on Brianna traditional Ira.

I don't have the exact numbers on here, but a small percentage of the overall IRA money is in a Roth ring there. There aren't that many people that have taken advantage of, you know, we had what a listener the podcast in Indiana that that you actually know help them see a strategy 8-bit a younger age that kinda surprised them that they could be making Roth IRA contributions right now rather than traditional this and this is the guy in Pennsylvania so we got her states off a little bit.

The chance to show what I know an indigent gentleman. These folks are younger, we been talking about these three clients that came to mean January 2019 and they came as a result of the podcast which is very they just found the podcast somewhere where is most of our real estate clients are going to find the book on Amazon or something like that and just call us randomly.

These are people that are picking up the podcast which is chemical in this guy. He you know he's very smart. For one thing there. There very deep and committed Christians and their savers. Like a lot of Christians and they have a lot of money and a lot of accounts and he between meeting one and meeting to meeting one. He told me that he wants to get more money in our Roth IRAs. Listen to flex 30 for the shows and he had gotten out of that that the others Roth IRA thing is good. Had I get money in there and we had established. This can be difficult for him to convert his existing money in an IRA to a Roth conversion because in order to do that is going to have to pay the taxes out of money sitting on the sidelines and he really doesn't have enough of it that he wants to tie up and paying taxes for said you know your look into your your 401(k) for both you and your wife are both highly paid software technical people and they sits see if they have a Roth option for your contributions and he was senile think they do their kind of backward at this one and I don't think hers does and I said well you know if they don't then we'll sit down and will look at some other things we can maybe do what's called a backdoor Roth IRA and I won't get into that so much today. Different show. So by the time we get this guy in the second show he'd already researched the second meeting which was like a week later he had already researched and found out that the Roth was eligible on both of and the Roth contribution and they were putting 50 grand a year. They are putting 50 grand a year now after tax in the Ross and he Artie calculated that when he retires in 5 to 7 years is can have like $400,000 right is that since that is a Roth IRA there. Now he has the other, already taxed income sit on the sidelines pay tax on the other trick traditional IRA right that your talk about that evening. What he does but but he's a he's actually probably not can convert so we just can have two buckets of money were to have the traditional IRA and were going to live off of that pay the taxes on that and then we can have the Roth IRA and these can have some regular savings and then working in Plessis's ghazal securities are working to be able to take four different buckets of money and decide what our income and our taxable incomes can be in any given year. Pretty cool. So yeah, I have in there so much that we've got coming up for your next segment. As we have them begin to talk about Q CDs or minimum distribution right stuff. But the point that you want to make in the show is that IRAs are different. Bring a cat because of the tax round and said and there is also the need strategy God has provided VIN slot. Another thing that we want to make it available Cardinal Guy night] Hans and I would love to take our show on the road to your church, Sunday school, Christian or civic group.

Here's a chance for you to advance the kingdom through financial resources and leveraging Hahn's expertise and qualified charitable contributions veterans aid and attendance IRA Social Security and care and long-term care. Just go to cargo and contact Tom to schedule a live recording of finishing well at your church Christian or civic contact. Contact Cardinal that's Cardinal welcome back to finishing well today show IRA trusting the hand of God were talking about.

As we enter into a more intimate relationship with our master and try to please our master. Are we ready for the hand signs and sometimes things change up drastically in your life. Are you ready as God brings those in enough to respond to the hand of God like they bring somebody in your and and as it says in first Peter five and are you humble yourself and realize men I don't know anything. I love it I love what John Bunyan said about the valley of humiliation that the soil in the Valley of humiliation is the richest, it comes off the mountains and and there were we admit we don't know much we can dig in our roots and begin to learn some stuff right and that's what that's what helped you understand we did and he you know I learned just really learn about 45678 basic things and that's all I put in my book is just the basics and is getting a deeper understanding and planning for the things like just suddenly jumps off the boat as your beneficiary designations is if you have those right. This money is going to go to the wrong person the wrong cause we got many stories and at slots shared with many stories of like ex-wives and just war that are still listed and then you get into a suit between the current wife in the ex-spouse and situations with children or the people left it just to the estate of Ms. love to never look at a beneficiary IRA and everybody IRA that's out there has a beneficiary designation on whatever it says on that beneficiary.

That's where the monies: I don't care what it says in your will and here any of that stuff. If you have an updated that Lady everybody this listening getting out a lot of these places will show it to you what it is online and you can also download a change form right online. You can fill it out and send it entombment make sure that money ends up going to who you want to go to An insane thing in your life.

Check that.

Yeah it doesn't go to him with the will says it goes to the beneficiary isn't listed, and you know that's that's a great point in another reason what you know that just reading through the book. You know rings out these things that are just practical information, but again we got another story from another podcast listener. John is a one real quick. Go to iTunes subscribe in these things will go right into your you know iPhone and and you can listen to them in a whenever whenever you want to. Then I get on's bona fide all the Potter kids podcast list as they are finishing well Hahn's child and I think it's really cool that people all over the country are listening to this thing and then some of the Collison. That's not just for me, mean that you know as we talked earlier is God in some way feels the deer to benefit from something that are nonexistent in this this gentleman is calling me from Indiana and he is become a client, and he and his wife, and that the two of them are. He 61. She was 64 and just turned 65 and we talked about them on the Social Security show, but now were over to the IRA show in order to talk about what were recommending and what was recommended them to do with her IRA Miami. First of all, this gentleman has done a wonderful job of being a steward of his money and he's got out right in $1 million of IRA money which way to go.

Just awesome in each 200 grand of not IRA money or because nonqualified money is money in a brokerage account just about every penny.

These guys invested in stocks okay and this worked out well for them. But my concern is that now you're retired he just retired and now we got a live office for the rest of our live and I don't want you to get into your 60s and 70s and 80s and having to be in a watch in the stock market every day in a trembling Majesty. From my experience, people in the 70s and 80s that are invested in stocks. They get very little joy out of the upticks in the market and they get a lot of anguish in fear and pain out of the down texts so as not to be in stocks but I'm recommending to him that he diversify and get into some bonds and some safer investments and to do that is going to have to accept a lower return so what were and talk about on the show. Is he still 10 years away from minimum distributions. He's got a Social Security check. This can start coming in next year three really needs to pull a little bit out this year and when you start pulling money out of your IRA to live off of you create an income now you got to potential downdrafts in your balances. One is the money or point out to live on Staples out 60 grand or 70 granary grand this year pays taxes on it and then let's say there is a market downturn of you know 10% of another's.

Another hundred grand so when you start distributing your IRA you really need to be smart about your investment strategy and that's really what he's hired us to do and we've done that, and we've gone through all the money and we've made recommendations of how he would get this more conservative and he's going to need to accept a lower return for lower average return and he is prepared to accept that heat to your couple other facts about him is he has early Parkinson's disease, which makes him ineligible for really any traditional type of long-term care insurance, including the hybrids so that beacon long-term care insurance became real important to him and Susie found out he couldn't get it. And so we have a way to take, especially somebody with this much money to take a piece of their IRA and coordinate off into something very safe and annuity with guaranteed values. This can create this fund for future income and long-term care expenses.

So were going to kill a whole bunch of birds with one stone. With us were going to get more conservative investments we can get an income that can outlive so once he turns the income off on this on in this thing many years in the future, whatever he chooses to do it the longer he waits the more it is that income will continue for the rest of his life and his wife lives so it's only when the second one passes that the income stops but the real sweet thing for him is whatever that income is if he is to need long-term care did benefit amount dollars so I'm just throw out some numbers to you just quickly edit 10 years from now beginning the 11th year at guaranteed. That means that the stock market has performed flat mean there's been no gains in the stock market just got in the guaranteed out of the policy and if that happens, he could turn on income for $15,000 a year that will last for the rest of both of their lives. Now if it any time during the rest of their life.

Want to eat one or one of them needed long-term care that income will double, and it'll stay doubled for up to five years and then when that person passes on her gets out of care and it will just go back to the amount that it was and it'll keep on coming into liberal, then what happens if there's anything left in the account. If there's anything left in the account, then it'll go to the beneficiary or while that's the guaranteed now the more probable nonguaranteed numbers. Those numbers become $22,000 a year for the rest of both of their lives and the guaranteed of the doubler for long-term care is $45,000 a year. That's what you're really after is a feast and need long-term care that we would turn on the income and we would have an extra $45,000 a year coming in for five years to at least help with long-term care expenses and home healthcare, and he's basically going to live off of the other 800,000 and with that produce so it's kind of an oversimplified approach certainly don't want anybody to run out or call me upset. I want one of those based upon that, but there are ways for people with health conditions and they have some savings either IRA or not IRA savings and they got pretty severe health conditions to still get some protection from long-term care chemical that's that's very cold but we can do a show on IRAs that talk about QTC CCD CDs right qualified charitable distributions and so if you're over 70 1/2 and you have an IRA you can donate your minimum distribution or more directly to your church under a qualified charitable distribution. You don't pay any taxes on the distribution and you meet the minimum distributions is a wonderful way to get the full tax benefit your type goes that way them. The money that you would have given for your time and event could be used in other purposes and and and so it's a way to again leveraged those IRAs because they are a different animal, what, what a great thing is that you you have a lot of seniors were just taken the minimum distribution people over 70 1/2 they got money stuffed in an IRA K they're going to leave this to their kids.

Most likely, which is fine but that their kids are going to end up paying all taxes on it and so this is a wonderful way for the older folks in the church.

They want to take some of their savings and directed toward the kingdom so we come out and do the radio show for the older folks in the church. Some of the younger folks as well, and we do the show and then we have a short program. Give them all a copy of my book and I make UCD. I don't really hear too many people talking about him is not in the press but it's a wonderful advantage for people over 70 1/2 face and minimum distributions away, you can give directly God now and again as he plans out and will point out again cardinal and brings you obviously finishing well but if you go to cardinal and and tell us your church or you know just say I wish you talk to my pastor, I wish you talk to my Sunday school teacher. Whatever we be happy to talk to them for it. If you would like to have us come out and record right there live in your church. We would be absolutely delighted to do that for lots of reasons because we see how the it leverages the kingdom and we've seen it in the church is that you know actual fruit from the people that have attended these before. And the house how God irked that there actually kinda doing what we talked about today see in the hand of God in out and humbling themselves under it to go out.

There's these kind of opportunity so we have people been the bathroom door after these things.

We got an office in Durham again office in Greensboro. We got an office in Charlotte and many were North Carolina. We can come out to your church and put on a program honored ratio again on thanks we hope you enjoyed finishing well brought you by cardinal visit cardinal for free downloads of the show previous shows on topics such as Social Security, Medicare and IRAs, long-term care, life insurance, investments and taxes as well as constant best-selling book, the complete cardinal guide to planning for and living in retirement and the workbook once again for dozens of free resources past shows what to get Hans book go to cardinal if you have a question, comment or suggestion for future shows. Click on the finishing well radio show on the website and send us a word. Once again, that's cardinal cardinal

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