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Nursing Home or Home Nursing?

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil
The Truth Network Radio
April 4, 2020 8:30 am

Nursing Home or Home Nursing?

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil

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April 4, 2020 8:30 am

This week, Robby and Hans discuss how to make sure you have a plan for finishing well, specifically one that includes home health care. They get into the details of different routes and policies, including the policy that Robby is currently getting. There is peace of mind that comes with having this planned out now, not only for you, but for your family.  

Don’t forget to get your copy of “The Complete Cardinal Guide to Planning for and Living in Retirement” on Amazon or on for free!

You can contact Hans and Cardinal by emailing or calling 919-535-8261. Learn more at  

Rob West and Steve Moore
Finishing Well
Hans Scheil
Finishing Well
Hans Scheil
Finishing Well
Hans Scheil
Finishing Well
Hans Scheil

You're listening to the network and welcome to finishing well brought you by Cardinal Certified financial planner belonged to Schild, best-selling author and financial planner helping families finish well over 40 years of finishing well will examine both biblical and practical knowledge to assist families in finishing well, including discussions on managing Medicare IRA long-term care life insurance and investments and taxes.

Now let's get started with finishing well well five was actually very dear. The question that were to just throw out there. This is nursing home or home nursing and why those things conjure up completely different pictures, don't they do one conjures up a picture of a place down the 2 Lane Rd. with one story, low roof tile floors, beds with people laying in them that are very sick. This is not a very pretty sight smells that don't appear pleasant and and suffering that doesn't seem like anything anybody ever wants to do and and then go home nursing you just see me nursing.

That's a good thing right now receiving it. Whether you need or not and then home is a nice thing, especially getting nursing in your home. So just if you take two words a reversal nursing home you turn it in the home nursing, which is something that just kinda hit me as I got an agenda here but will just go have moving object exists. I want to stop, think about you know, one of the real things he's been teaching me this year, actually found on all sorts of level is how important home is to God and as I was doing research for some shows.

I did a Christian card I show I came across the fact that there are more songs that are written on the subject of home that there are on love and as I started doing inventory of all the songs I could just immediately think homeward bound it and there's no place like home. In all this home home on the right is there's all these and the more you think about it.

You are all my goodness. And why is that right because, as you mentioned, as we are getting ready to do the show that you know you long for home because that's where you expect to find love, not just love from a spouse but love from your parents or love from your kids and and and all those things well. Interestingly, if you look in the Torah of the original Old Testament you know what the Bible starts with a bet and that bet the Jews teach mean specifically that when God said no say in the beginning, while that bet is there to say that God wanted to make a place that he could call home where he could hang out with Adam and the light of the fact that he made this eagle that was make a stirrup nest and always things which we talked about before, but God loves home and he loves to be himself and enjoy the love of of the people that are in his you know, family, i.e., his son and now I must and and so we have that heart because God has that heart and and that longing that he has is with the longing that we have and so that word home is actually a beautiful amazing thing and I think my own father's life arms if I only knew him two years ago. What I know today. Oh the last in a year of his life with an significantly different than that.

It turned out just because I did not know really I didn't understand the value of long-term care and how it was not at all necessarily related to nursing will yeah it when I spoke earlier of my agenda me my agenda is the connotation that nursing home stirs up in clients that I'm dealing with creates a big stop sign for me and for them for help and with long-term care insurance with the going say is I've heard this a thousand times. I'm never going to one of those nursing and you know what I have say that is neither a mind if I can help it.

That's not the plan here.

The plan here is to use our own resources or were not dependent upon Medicare where were using our own resources to hire a home healthcare agency and pay for with insurance companies money because the little-known fact.

At least I sure had no clue was it is that Medicare has no long-term care benefit that is very little you got in the hospital but for a few days and they're kicking across the street to the reader and then when you're there then then their Picacho stop watch to see how long Medicare is going pay for any hazards or meetings. That said, well, you know, we don't see any approval in improvement and so you know you have to call this the date which I looking back on it. We should've called it a day in of the day that they said we got it so the hospital brought them home and and got in care at home is you know the reality is you can't go back, so we don't necessarily want to use as example of this is pretend there's another.

This is another guy like okay that this is happening to this week okay and then he gets.

He has when he fell down a path on bedtime snack.

I going to the hospital is in the hospital and just when it was time to take him to the rehab. We could've just gotten involved in his care and said we want to go home and they say will I don't think you can handle that whatever you think that'll be good for, well, you gotta listen with these people say you also get a say came. He gearing it in email and this patient here gets to say and if you have proper insurance that reimburses home healthcare because I experienced this guy we can just you know if we if we go take him home in the same vehicle is a go put them in something that resembles an ambulance to getting over the place with that same place can just take them home and put a hospital bed and home with his. Gotta have a hospital bed.

We had all that.

That's the thing I got to see firsthand. This when we got a matter rehab. We all of a sudden miraculously, you know, not miraculously but yes we had a hospital bed. Yes, all those physical therapist that we would only see you know every little while, at the at the rehab.

They came in every single day.

They had occupational rehab, all these different people to help you do all sorts of different stuff at home is all available without having to go to rehab and the thing is is we have private pay insurance that pays for that stuff you can buy it and you can be in pretty bad health, but you can.

Your father couldn't about it on his way home we can is sold to them, but believe me EEE other. There's some report health people they can by submitting a case did you reimburses that stuff and you don't have to play with Medicare and if Medicare happens to pay for. Then you can collect from both sides as you need it for something else. So the whole point we want to get across with this is, is that being cared for and receiving nursing at home is a choice is a choice that you can make income circumvented that there's people to go to the rehab the disc out of the rehab.

It's a snack work from home.

There's a whole bunch of people and that rehab that could have gone straight home. If they had the proper care on the other side you might had to stay out there with which I'm sure you would've been glad to do or possibly effective when it and he actually did know in my opinion he finished well the last probably three months of his life, all that stuff went from rehab place is small. That's actually at home and oh my goodness he was a much more comfortable being in a place where people around, and he knew loved him and really cared about him and and protected him in really, what was his most vulnerable part of his life that I can cheer. So why are we talking about this on the financial show in a retirement show because it's where you come in. That's where you finish well. Sure and you know what the cost money to hire a private home healthcare agency and you. A lot of people civil we got the money will just pay for okay good luck with that. And this is saying take a person is 87 or 88 that has substantial resources in the new circle other kids around and then he started telling them we got somebody that's it used to be 200 bucks a day until maybe 300 on Sundays how much you know you just okay.

How much money people have. It's hard. That just becomes one more burial in our back at the rehab. Okay, that Medicare is paying for and if you got insurance people much easier. Spend insurance companies money and follow a plan that was laid out 20 years earlier then eliminate beautiful plans now, which obviously we got some time to get into is we go further in the show today show home nursing arts actually nursing home or home nursing. Now that's kinda the question it's brought to you by Cardinal guide where you know you can get Hans complete book on this to complete Cardinal guide to planning for living in retirement and actually likely say finishing and then there's the workbook that goes with that which is available Cardinal and you can call and ask Hans for that but that what were talking about today is long-term care and just knowing Hans as I do and time and time again I see this in his heart is like this is the place where you really see families suffer or not suffer, as the case may be, it is is really of that some of these final months and weeks as people come in and they're gonna finish nothing and finish well or or is it an appeal of strife right and pain and suffering and so that we can get rid of his insurance but it it it just puts a sensor come really to have had a plan dad plan for this.

Dad knew this is can happen.

Mom knew this might happen, and this is all been thought through the written plan is the funding is the whole thing over. You do is call these people up there and start pushing buttons in their lease can make it better when I'm really excited that you listed other part of this because is one plan exit which I'm doing on the process of setting up right now for myself hanging out on me like a personal note in his where know if you don't end up needing it well. It almost is Hans and I would love to take our show on the road to your church and Sunday school Christian or civic group. Here's a chance for you to advance the kingdom through financial resources and leveraging Hans expertise and qualified charitable contributions veterans aid and attendance and IRA Social Security care and long-term care. Just go to Cardinal and contact Tom to schedule a live recording of finishing well at your church Christian or civic group contact Tomczyk Cardinal that's Cardinal welcome back to finishing well with certified financial child today show is nursing home or should we call it home nursing or should we try to get illness which means make a lot of sense. We got a bunch of different ways to actually help people out in the segment now Hans I'm excited to share you know that there are so many wonderful solutions to this yeah I mean when I was selling the stuff 30 years ago Go back to 1990.

This is nursing home insurance we we were in a paper tells I'm never going to one of those nursing home you just getting a good gun and shoot myself before I go there in we we would talk and we just we some people would buy at some people wouldn't whatever indent was really in the 90s that full home healthcare benefits started with partial and then real home healthcare benefits got added on these policies and then as we've moved the clock along and I would say 20 years ago 15 years ago. The benefit became the same for the home healthcare as it is for the nursing home and then in that same era nursing homes there still there and there there but there created this thing called the assisted living most assisted living stone take Medicaid and assisted living is clearly different than a nursing home area okay and without get into a lot of details that doesn't really matter for an insurance guy because the policies that we sell are going to pay the same for all three. Whether you're in a nursing home for the year and assisted living really your home benefits are going to say so I have been working on what were talking about on the radio is reversing this thing and just let's talk about the home healthcare benefits.

First, and then let's just put that nursing home or assisted living or going to the facility is something we're going to do when we have to do it possibly at the end. Or maybe never. And I haven't been that successful that I may have been successful individually with people as I talk to them just in the general sense in teaching my salespeople I mean it just pretty much the consumer will grab the discussion and they'll define it and that is all going to defined around nursing home, so I'd I really am not to give up on this as I really want to get people's mindset change before they even start looking at stuff now and I think that you know actually there's that you know that Solomon says teach me to number my days because people don't want to face their own mortality as well and they don't want to think that that that that you know they may need this kind of care for any lengthy period of time. My dad certainly did not mean he would not of seen what came common in any way shape or form. And because the denial of that exactly what you describe took place because not long after he got out of the hospital the first time Tammy and I needed to go to event my daughter's college. More like will hire the lot, health, home healthcare people for the weekend to come in and he was like that's outrageous. I'm not paying for the web that you know you yes I mean we we got. We can't just leave you by yourself and you can't, you know.

And so it it played out despite the movie that's that you're describing because in spite of the fact that he had the money to do it in all the things however you know is is as we got closer to the and fortunately you know he he. We all got on the same bout of working to do this thing at home at and once we got home all those kinda cares like like you know the the physical therapy that we struggle to get every day in the nursing home/rehab that the call in on the whole reason he was there was so that useful to be able to be taught how to walk again while so that was critical to us will.

Interestingly, when we got them home. We know we no longer had to fight to get that physical therapist every day you note, he was there buddy cousin ME. That was just part of the plan and it was beautiful that the occupational people showed up, that there's lots of different levels. Sure, and when you have insurance, proper insurance, you just take Medicare and Medicaid and then your own doctor and your own doctors loyalty to Medicare and Medicaid and just out of the picture. We'll take another picture. So they're still there to provide you benefits if we can get Medicare to pay for the stuff.

Great, but the to commodities decision-making and ring the decision-making to you and your family. If you have proper insurance or you can just look at their needs for care.

You can get up social worker at home healthcare agency to write out a plan care. Meet with dad or mom meet with you if you're the person and just decide I want to go home.

Can you make this work and then how much is it going to cost me, and then as this insurance can pay for. We insist that simple. We wanted to get in a little bit into products Jump in to what you'd said back to me.

I think that maybe you could just describe it a little bit to yeah I got working on is a hybrid where actually, it's a life insurance policy that I'm paying into so that that the kids are the beneficiary my wife first.

If I go into and she still alive at however there is a writer in there that says that if I need long-term healthcare that those same benefits can be pushed towards that care in specifically you call a fancy word like indemnity or was indemnity how you like that my vocabulary harrowing indemnity. So what that means is apparently they do send me a check. I don't have to, as opposed to a reimbursement right okay a reimbursement you have to send in receipts to get you five grand prize with you know receipts from the home healthcare agency.

With this you just need to have that planning care submitted and signed by a social worker that says Robbie needs his care. He can't meet these criteria into he needs help. Therefore, he qualifies they start sending you a check for five grand every month and you can spend it as you see fit. So not now you can negotiate a little bit with these people say you and you negotiate with the help you decide how much occupational you need to have much meaning because you got all these different levels of care and you know maybe even need someone to mow the grass whenever you may want to pay one year when your kids or grandkids by the hour, so that there to be out there with you through four days a week.

You can't do that through home healthcare agency, but you absolutely can do that with indemnity like that's paid to self gives you a lot of flexibility and it also if you have up-and-down months.

As you might have one month we spent a grand in another month. We spent two grand you have a lot of problems with the reimbursement company get the money out of it. If you get the indemnity there just sending you a check or in the other side of it is it's a whole life policy and so it has cash value that's been wounded in there.

If I were to also need the money or get in others loans.

It would be available to set my shirt and then you know the beautiful thing is that if you know like cassoulet my sleep one night beautifully and peacefully. Let Vic I hope I do then know that that the money just goes on to my kids and because do no harm no foul or minimize my likely first and you know, if you survive her, your kids and or let's just say you're in between. You use 30,000 of the long-term care home health care benefit and now it you know it's can be 30,000 less, but the death benefit is still going to go to them what's left of the sea have the opportunity while you're alive, to use up the whole benefit for long-term care but any part that son used his good remain what it originally is a life insurance policy as compared to so you know that's that's my route and but there some other beautiful others. There is the rate there's an infinite number of options and I met with some people yesterday who who have played golf with this gentleman actually 70 now and we we were playing golf together and talking to when you turn 65 anybody Medicare supplements differs will be the time, but long-term care provider is read my books listen to the radio show. Something clicked and he wrote to me just all of a sudden couple days ago and just said I talk to you about long-term care, so I have a couple proposals ready, which I emailed them yesterday and then I just said these. These are recommendations. This is just a place to start. Surely with this cost you and then he was sharp enough to come out and say you know I think I really need to tell you about my whole financial situation before we start zeroing in on what would again and then he just opened right up and he's emailed to me today and skies very wealthy okay and that's part of his hedge all these years of he's just not initially run out and buy long-term care because if he needed to pay for. He's got the money, but he's changed his attitude about that and he really wants me to do tax planning. Once I got all these documents's long-term care is still very important to him, but legacy and leaving money to his kids is even more important, so I'm not sure that we want to mix those two know so we don't want is long-term care benefits necessarily robbing the legacy that we set up for the life insurance for his kids and grandkids so that's a little over talking with Abbott. I can't jumped out with a proposal as the insurance salesman and me when I didn't go overboard with that but II just made some assumptions that I was a can of been more wrong and then he just gave me the information in so the moral of that story is there is there's a number of life insurance companies that have these type products that you bought and they're all different and they all come at it from a different way.

Some are better with a lump sum, some are better with an ongoing premium for life. Some are better with a short pay a premium every year for 10 years and then stop some work with a combination of the two. We can take an existing annuity that you have that has some growth in it and we can just roll it over into that retaken IRA and take a portion of that and just roll it over into an IRA hybrid something like that and defer the taxes and resist. That's where the financial planner comes out in our thing. We we study this stuff and there's a solution for everybody are several solutions that would work and we we get to know people's whole financial picture and what's important to them how important legacy and inheriting the end we just design a plan because I am today. If this happens to you home nursing need for happens is it that you want to talk about home nursing and I'm I'm sure that can help it ring true for those of us who were coming in at age that with this coronavirus know people that are in nursing homes unfortunately are really really suffering right now. The reason for suffering.

It is that they get no visitors, no family can come to see him. You know they are there marooned well and if if that coronavirus gets in their nursing home there gone or mean it. We have a mutual friend that's in a rehab/nursing home right now that had his knee replaced about 30 days ago and most people go home after knee replacement. He's not yet 80, but he couldn't do the physical therapy so the sender rehab and I still stuck there like a month later and I'm sure that he's worried about that a lot and have a clear and visit him.

It's it's it is it's you know you want to go home and get your nursing care is what I'm saying and that that's what I'm and try everything and I got the insurance to back it up and I've got the written instructions. This is what I want to have happen if I'm not able to make these decisions and it may not work out perfectly on their situations with. There's a pretty good chances. I've got the insurance there backing me up with a can bring the teams in to take care home nursing yet again. Thank you Hans I we should mention that this brought to by Cardinal don't forget the Cardinal, and the guide altogether. Cardinal when you got Constance booking all sorts of ways to reach and cons of today show an attorney in order. We hope you enjoyed finishing well brought you by Cardinal visit Cardinal for free downloads of the show previous shows on topics such as Social Security, Medicare and IRAs, long-term care and life insurance, investments and taxes as well as cons best-selling book, the complete Cardinal guy to planning for and living in retirement and the workbook once again for dozens of free resources past shows you get Hans book go to Cardinal if you have a question, comment or suggestion for future shows. Click on the finishing well radio show on the website and send us a word. Once again that's Cardinal Cardinal

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