Is Your Kid a Gamer? 5 Things Not to Do: Drew Dixon

Don't be ignorant about what your kids are up to. Don't be ignorant about the world of video games. Don't be ignorant about anything that they're spending time on.

Get online. Watch some videos on YouTube or Twitch of people playing whatever game it is your kids want to play before you let them play it. Learn how to set up parental controls.

But don't assume that just because you put some parental controls on their devices that everything's fine. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com.

This is Family Life Today. Today, you excited about today? I am excited. We got our Friday five show where we get five things, five issues, whatever.

But we've got Drew Dixon back and he's our resident video game expert. Nerd. Yeah, sure. Nerd.

I love it. Yeah, call me a nerd. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, you wrote the book, Know Thy Gamer, A Parent's Guide to Video Games, which is so helpful. We've had a couple days talking about that. Yeah. And so today's Friday, and we do this with some of our guests. You're in a club that's only a certain number of guests. Oh, I feel very privileged. Yeah, well, you shouldn't, but anyway.

I put this on my resume. So we sort of have you prepared a little bit to come in. You've got three, you say?

Yes. But here's what we're going to do. Five things parents should not do with their gamer kid. So you've got three. We've got to come up with two. We haven't even talked about this, so I have no idea what Ann's going to say. Yeah, can't wait to hear yours. But we should start probably with you. Sure. Fair enough. Go ahead.

Give us one, then we'll jump in. So I would say don't parent with just the on off switch. I think that's maybe primarily what we think our job as parents is, is just to like set the rules.

Here's what you can and can't do. When you've had your time, your time's up, I'm going to turn it off. So we think that's how you parent around video games is just turn it off.

When I say you turn it off, I think that's not enough. We have to dig deeper. Our kids want a relationship with us. Keep at it. Keep at it. Keep at it with your kids.

That's a big part of parenting. You just keep at it. And I think one of the things you need to constantly do is keep asking questions.

Keep being curious. Keep getting to know them and the things that they're into. Be a student of your kids.

Study them, what they're into. You've got to build a relationship of trust. It's got to be more than just rules. I firmly believe that relationship is a more powerful parenting tool than rules.

And so if they just think you're just the one that sets the rules, they're not going to look to you for advice about really important issues of life, about the really big decisions that you really want to have some say in as a parent. So you're saying enter their world. Don't just say no, yes.

Be involved. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's good.

Yeah. And you may, if you're a parent listening to this, you may say, I'm just terrible at video games. That's great. You know, because then when you play video games with your kids, they get to be the Jedi Master and you're the Padawan, right? Like how many times in life do those roles reverse? And I think when those roles reverse, when they teach us something, that's so meaningful for them. That's a ticket to relationship building that I think will pay dividends in the future. What were you laughing about? I get to go next.

No, mine's going to be similar to yours. And Drew, that was really good. I think as parents, it's easy for us because we're busy. We're tired and we don't want to get us involved because we've got our own things to do. So thanks for that one. Well, in some ways too, just in case you didn't join us the last two days and you're thinking, do you guys think video games are good? I mean, he answered that question like it's an okay thing to do. Yeah, Drew actually said that in his book, said that in the last couple days.

There can be negatives, there can be positives, but the switch isn't just off because there can be some good, right? Yeah, for sure. Just make sure people understand that.

They're sending us emails right now. Drew said all video games are wonderful. I did not say that. So let me go to one of mine and I'm just going to preface this with saying I've made a lot of mistakes parenting, okay? Well, you're in both company.

Let's just lay it out there. And I got better as time went on, but video games were fairly new when our kids were growing up. But I do remember, this is number two, I remember going into the basement because their video game and a TV was down there and they'd be playing. And so I'd be watching. So I thought, like, I'm kind of participating.

It's just what you said, Drew. And then I would say, this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Or this is the biggest waste of time.

You guys like this? Like, why don't you live real life? People, like, I so regret those days, the saying those things, because what does that communicate to the kids? The things that you enjoy, I think they're dumb. And the things that you're finding pleasure in, and there's a reason behind that, I think it's ridiculous. And so talk about just severing lines of communication. Like, this is important to them.

It's super fun. And so now they feel shame over it and guilt over it. So I did get better. And I was a good apologizer when I spent time with Jesus. I love that you shared that, though, because so many parents relate to what you said. You think?

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you were honest and like, hey, here's a mistake I made. Too many of us are afraid to share about our parenting failures. And there's a lot of parents that needed to hear that. Well, I mean, we discussed off air a little bit. Dane Ortlund said that if you say to your child, I love you, but I don't enjoy the things you enjoy, the child doesn't feel love.

They hear everything after your butt. It's like, I love you, but you're into chess. I think chess is a waste of time. You're into orchestral music. If you're not going to enjoy what they enjoy, it's a way of saying the same thing you would do with your spouse. Like, you're into that. I'm not into that. They feel like I'm alone and you're not really.

It's like, no, love means I'm going to sacrifice. I'm going to serve. I'm going to learn and enjoy what you enjoy. I may not enjoy as much as you do. Like, you stand there and say, this is the biggest waste of time ever.

And we're all sitting there going, are you kidding me? This is awesome. Well, I do remember this one time.

There was some racing game and it actually had the steering wheel. You might even know what it was. So I went down and I put it on. I'm playing like, this is amazing. When our boys saw me doing that, it was like I gave them the greatest gift of their life. I'm like, Mom, what are you doing? Like, guys, I'm good at this. And it was so interesting because all of a sudden I entered their world and it gives me more of a voice.

And so as a parent, if you have just been the naysayer, like this is the dumbest thing, which I understand and feel. But just to say, man, I'm sorry I've responded to some of the stuff that you've liked so much. I'm sorry that I responded that way. I want to enter your world.

I want to know why you love it so much and what's important to you. That's a good one. Let's get the next one. I do want to say something about that because I think when we do that, because I've done it too, I'm like, some of the toys my kids play with, I'm like, this is so dumb. Why do you, you know, but when we do that, you know what we're teaching them to do is we're teaching them to hide it. We're saying like, that is something mom and dad don't like.

We think it's dumb. So they're not going to share that with us. I want my kids to share everything with me. I want them to be the one they come to.

So I said relationship is more powerful than rules when it comes to parenting our kids. I think we could also say that about shame and grace. Grace is the tool we want. We want to lean into grace. Don't lean into shame.

Don't shame your kids. All right, Drew, you get another one? Yeah, sure. So this one is... We've got two.

We've got three to go. Okay, this one I would say don't give up. Don't give up on your kids when it comes to any aspect of parenting, but this is also true of video games. You're going to get tired of having the same conversation over and over and over. You're going to have to come back to the table again. You're going to be rewriting your screen time rules for, I mean, if you have young kids, you're going to be rewriting them for the next 10, 15 years. That's your future. Every parent is like, this is so depressing.

Your kids are going to be 16 and you're still trying to figure out what should the rules in our home be about screen time. So don't give up. Keep coming back to the table. Keep talking to them. Keep asking questions. You're going to get tired of hearing them talk about their favorite video game.

You love your kid. You don't care about the video game that they're talking about. I mean, they're just talking minutes. Hours go by and they're still talking about Zelda or whatever.

Yes! I have lived that world and not only did they do it, now I have grandsons that are speaking the same language in my ear like it's happening again. But their enthusiasm about it and even them being able to share about it, that's pretty special. So don't give up on the conversation and don't give up on the boundaries. And continuing to have conversations around the boundaries and setting them and forcing them and don't give up in either space. You know, it's interesting. I was thinking the fact that our son's kids play video games means our sons let them or actually want them to.

They're saying, it was a good thing for me and now I'm a man. Again, there's boundaries. We've got to be careful.

We have our rules. But they're encouraging our grandkids to play video games like it's not a bad thing. It can be. But if you handle it in a healthy way, it can be a very productive thing and a great thing for a parent to do with his kids.

And they're very careful about which video games are age appropriate and what they're allowing them to play. And many times, I know that Austin's playing with them as well. Yeah, for sure. Alright, so we got three. Mine's so lame. I'm sitting there listening to you guys. That's great wisdom. Mine is identical really to what we've said the last two days and even now, but I have an illustration. Mine would be don't condemn what you don't understand. Engage. And again, we've said this, but it's easy as a parent to stand 50 feet away and point our finger even at sinners rather than stepping into their world.

Again, it's a different example. But say, what if I walk beside you and understood why you... So as a parent of a video game child, we can condemn what we've never even looked at. Like, Ian, walking in and seeing this thing. This is the biggest waste time ever.

It's like, what would happen if we sat down? And I did this. I sat down and watched the game they're playing. And at first I was like, this does look like a waste of time. But I look over and they're really laughing.

And they're competitive. And it's like, they are really enjoying... There's nothing wrong with what's on the screen. It isn't evil.

It isn't violent. It's just trying to accomplish a certain level at a certain level and they're throwing the thing because they didn't do it and they pick it up and try it again. And I'm like, they are really enjoying something. Why would I condemn this?

I need to sit here long enough to start to understand it and then be a part of it. And here's my illustration, because I think as parents we do the same thing with music or any other medium that our kids may be into that we don't understand because we're in a different generation and they're enjoying something. So I was a musician and I was in bands my whole life. And so my kids are starting to listen to different music that I don't listen to and don't even like.

And I think, initially, this is evil. The stuff they listen to is not, you know, Amy Grant back in our day. It's not a Christian singer.

They're not glorifying God. They're singing about other things. So I remember, here, I'll tell you. I've got my guitar here.

I walk in my son's room. I don't know, this had to be early 2000s. And I hear a riff I like. I should have an electric guitar, because it was Distortion with a great drive pedal.

But tell me if you know this riff at the beginning of the song. Oh, yeah, yeah. Blink 182.

Blink 182! Say It Ain't So. All the small things.

All the small things. Say it ain't so. I know, know, know. Carry me home. Da, da, da, da, da, da. I mean, it was a great song, right?

We had all three boys sleep in the same bedroom. So I think it was my middle son, Austin, who ended up being a singer and a great... In a band. In a band.

In high school. Anyway, he's playing this and it's loud. And I immediately think this is evil. This is wrong. This is bad. But as I walk in the room, Drew, I'm like, that's good guitar playing. So I was gonna condemn it and say, you got to turn that off right now. I don't know what this song is about. And it was one of those parenting moments like, no, no, no, engage.

And I remember walking over. Hey, man, who is this? Blink 182. And trust me, I know enough about Blink 182.

There are videos you don't want to watch. These guys don't like clothes sometimes. But, you know, as I stepped into their world and said, tell me, like, you like this song. And it wasn't just the guitar. It was the lyric. You know, it was about this little thing. And so it was one of these conversations like, let's talk about the lyric.

And we did. I'm like, what are they trying to say? And I could tell they were like, dad's in our world. They lit up because I was interested in something they did rather than saying this is wrong. Hey, you got to go listen to the Beatles. You know, listen to my music.

It was like, no, I want to engage in your world. I think video games same way. It's like you not only watch it, but what would happen if you picked up a controller? We never had, by the way, Drew, we've never had a game controller in the studio.

And we've got two of them sitting right here. Well, Dave, I'm thinking about that back with Austin because he got in a band after that. He really got into music. And he they had a talent show in middle school in the eighth grade. He was in eighth grade.

So all these kids are getting up there doing stuff. And Austin chose to do a song, a secular song. And he asked Dave to play the guitar as he sang the song. And I was like, what eighth grader wants their dad on this stage with them, right?

Proud dad moment right there. I know it was pretty impressive that you did that with him, but he asked you to do it with him. Yeah.

Yeah. And I remember even that song was not a song I knew and I had to go learn it. And trust me, it was intricate guitar, open tuning the whole thing.

And I could tell Austin was like, my dad learned my music. And so, yeah, we have a video of that. We're not going to show it. But I'm walking up there. But I think that's what can easily happen as a parent in whatever world. But definitely in the video game world, as you stand away and condemn rather than stepping in. And if you think what Jesus did, he stepped in and you mentioned it, gluttons and sinners Jesus hung out with. Yeah. The other side of that is gluttons and sinners wanted to be with him. Yeah, they wanted to be with him.

I mean, if you think about Christians today, who wants to hang around us? Yeah. They're repelled by us. They're inviting him to parties at their houses. They should be drawn to us.

Yeah. And sometimes our kids are repelled by us as well as parents because all we do is point a finger and give a rule. And there are times there needs to be strict rules on anything, including video games. But if they realize, no, I want to understand. I want to listen. I want to engage.

I want to experience what you experience at your level. I think they're going to invite us into that world. And even when they may be playing a game and going, you know, Dad, I think this might be a little too violent. You agree? And you go, yeah, I think you're right, son. Yeah. I agree with you. Those are powerful moments.

Yeah, those are cool moments. So that would be my thing. Don't stand away and point your finger. That's a good one.

That's what you guys already said. I just copied. I was thinking about this. I wonder if it'd be good to know the video games enough to even if you have gamers that you're sitting around eating dinner, to ask them, tell me your favorite video game character.

And then why? Yeah. I asked our granddaughter that one time, like, tell me your favorite movie and why you like it or what's behind it. It was so interesting because it was actually Bethany Hamilton, who's a surfer who had her arm bitten off by a shark. Yeah. That's her favorite character. And I said, why do you think?

And she said, because something catastrophic happened to her, but she came back. And so you're identifying things in their character and their identity that's really unique. So even for a gamer, like if I asked you, Drew, who's one of your favorite game characters that you ever played? Yeah.

And sometimes there isn't a character. Well, you're asking him right now. We want to know. That's what I'm asking him. Yeah.

Oh, that's a great question. I mean, even Zelda. Wasn't Zelda one of your games? Yeah.

It is one of my favorite. Link is kind of a bit of a OneNote character. This is sort of a weird answer to that question, but I think what I like about video games is that we sort of inhabit the character. Right. So you learn about yourself a lot of times. Yeah. And you play a video game, especially in some of these modern games where you're having to make moral decisions and things like that. You are playing as Link or whoever, but you're also bringing yourself into that space. So it can be sort of illuminating and challenging in a way that can be helpful, I think, at times.

That's good. It'd be a good question to ask kids. Like, why? Yeah, it's a great question.

Like, what makes you like them or identify with them? Yeah, the best thing I like about video games is most of the time you get new life. Yeah, that's right. So you die. It's spiritual. You get resurrected, you know?

Yeah. Like, I just died. No, you didn't. You got another shot.

You got three more shots. Keep going. And so it's a never quit. I'm kidding. Yeah. But there is some aspect to that. Yeah. Okay, we got – anybody remember what we got so far?

We all remember what we said. On-off switch. On-off switch.

Don't just pair it with on-off switch. Yours was? Don't walk in the room and say, this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life and what a waste of time.

Third one was? My second one was don't give up on your kids. Like, keep having those conversations. Keep thinking about what your boundaries need to be. And my last one was don't condemn. Engage.

Step into their world. Okay. One more. All right. My last one, I love that a lot of our kind of don'ts revolve around relationship, building relationship with your kids.

I think that's beautiful. This last one does have a little bit to do with rules, I guess, in a way, but it gets into relationship too. But I would say don't be ignorant about what your kids are up to. Don't be ignorant about the world of video games. Don't be ignorant about anything that they're spending time on. I would say don't let your kids on social media if you can avoid it. So don't be naive. Yeah, if they are on social media, you need to know what's going on on there. And probably have their password, you know? Yeah. And I think the same is true of video games.

Know what they're up to. It's not that hard to educate yourself about video games these days. There's some great resources. Common Sense Media is not a Christian website, but will give you some great reviews of what kind of content is in video games.

ESRB.org. And just get online. Watch some videos on YouTube or Twitch of people playing whatever game it is your kids want to play before you let them play it. But know what's going on. You should learn how to set up parental controls on all their devices.

You can learn how to common sense as well, right? Yeah. If your kids have phones, which, I mean, I think you should avoid that as long as possible, too.

That's a whole other conversation. But if they do, you know, lock those things down as much as you can. But don't assume that just because you put some parental controls on their devices that everything's fine. Kids are way savvier than we think. They're super smart. They know how to get around technology these days. They grew up with it.

Not like we did. So you gotta be savvy, too. And so don't pretend like everything's fine. I'm not saying that you should be, like, conducting investigation every day with your kids. Interrogation. Interrogation, yeah. Again, relationship, relationship, relationship, right? But know what's going on.

Let me ask you as we're talking about that part of it. You have a 12-year-old, but you also have a 5-year-old. Sometimes your 12-year-old could be playing games that your 5-year-old, you wouldn't want them to see. Would you put a boundary on that, or would you just not bring that game into the house? You know, we haven't run into that too much yet, because my 12-year-old doesn't really ask to play much that would be inappropriate for him to see. But that— But as they get older, if you have a 17-year-old with a 12-year-old— I'm gonna have to think about that some more. Yeah, your kids are younger. Yeah, because right now, one of the rules that we have is that they have to play in the family room, in the living room, out in the open.

And I think it's a good rule to have that they're not—they don't get to close the door and lock themselves up and play. Or even be in the basement. Our video game system was in the basement when they were younger. We were—video games were new. I wouldn't put it in the basement anymore.

I'd put it in a place where we can all see what's going on and hear what's going on. Yeah. As they get older, I think you can allow maybe some time where they're gaming where everybody else is not around.

Maybe. But even then, you gotta figure out ways to pop in and make sure you know what's going on. This conversation is illustrating that there's no one-size-fits-all set of rules for parents. But the big thing is just stay in the game. Be engaged. Keep asking questions. Keep showing up. Don't give up.

Hey, last question. Or a comment from you, Drew. The thought of video games becoming an escape. Or I'm bored.

I'm just gonna play video games. Not just as a child, but even as an adult. Yeah. Well, the average gamer is like 35 years old.

Yeah, there you go. And so, you know, working in the NFL with NFL players, often these guys would come home and would hear from the wives. He comes home from practice and plays video games all night. That was not just every once in a while.

That was a lot of guys. And I'm not saying it's an NFL thing or anything, but I would hear that and go, I think he's escaping something. Part of it's I'm drained and I'm tired and I need to rest. But it's easy to escape your own marriage. You're having problems. It's not going the way you want.

Or your kids. And you just... And again, it could be anything, but often video games can stimulate you in a way that you get lost. And it feels good.

It's like, I'm gonna write. I'm not sure I would do this and have a conflict with my wife tonight. What would you say about that? There's sort of two sides to that, I guess. We all need escape. We think of escape as inherently bad. It's not at all, really.

Our imaginations are a gift from God. And everybody does it. We all escape, whether it's through the latest fantasy novel or a little Netflix or fantasy football. Hey, don't. No, no, no.

You can't touch that one. But yeah, like what you were talking about earlier, shaming your kids. Imagine if your kids walked into the room while you were on your fantasy football draft and they're like, this is the... This is the biggest waste of time. Yeah, like, Derek Henry's not even on your real team.

This is a fake team. And you're just watching his stats to see if, you know... We can say that too. Wait, it is a fantasy. Yeah, so we all need some escape. And I think it can be good. It can be healthy.

What we can't afford to do as followers of Jesus is stay there and camp out there. And we know there's times when it becomes unhealthy and it becomes an escape from real relationship, from really engaging the people that matter most to us, from living on mission, from our spiritual formation, from growing in relationship to Jesus. We all need conversation and accountability like we all do. And so model that to your kids, that you're someone who's correctable. That if your kids say like, hey, you're on your phone a lot. You're on your phone all night. That your response isn't like, you don't have any right to say that to me, but your response is like, oh, you know?

You're right. I'm sorry. Let's talk. Let's go for a walk or whatever it is. Conversation and accountability don't stay an escape. We need it to some degree like it can be healthy in moderation, but we can't stay there. We need to just have that open conversation constantly where we're approachable, where we can revisit those boundaries for ourselves.

Because if our kids see us respecting boundaries for ourselves and for the sake of our families and our relationships, then they're more likely to think that's important. I think that conversation with Drew is really helpful. And I really wish that we could have had a book like that.

I knew you were going to say. When our kids were growing up. What I loved about the conversation with Drew about gaming and our kids playing video games is it was bigger than video games. It was a parenting conversation about how do you engage as parents with whatever it is your kids are excited about or into. And video games is huge in this culture. We knew it in our day.

Absolutely. And now we're grandparents and it's big for our grandkids. But man, this is a really valuable conversation for parents. They never talk about this. I don't think most parents have had anybody give them some guidance on how to navigate this video game world.

So this is a program that will change homes. And it's not something that's going away. So to learn to have those conversations, to learn to put in boundaries, that's really helpful.

And let me say this to the listeners that love what we talk about. You're going to spend a lot of money this year on video games, probably. Your kids are.

And I'm not saying that's a terrible thing, although you got to be careful with that. But let me ask you to consider what you do spend money on. Because one of the reasons we can have shows like this is listeners like you become partners with us.

Absolutely. Family Life Partners, which means they don't just pray for us. They financially give to this ministry. You can spend money on video games or you can spend money on shows like this that will help families navigate the video game world or any world that your kids are living in. So I'm challenging you and inviting you. Jump in and join us. And you will help more shows like this get into homes in your neighborhood and around the world that will literally change you, your neighbors and our legacies. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Drew Dixon on Family Life Today.

You know, I just agree with Dave there. What we're doing here at Family Life Today is something that you can be a part of. And if you want to partner with us financially, you could simply go to familylifetoday.com or give us a call at 800-358-6329.

That's 800 F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. And while you're at familylifetoday.com, I want to let you know that Weekend to Remember gift cards are now 50% off through November 27th. You know, it can be sometimes it can be really hard to choose where to go like right now when you're thinking about a weekend to remember getaway. So a gift card can allow you to buy now and then register for your location later on, because sometimes these things are happening all over the country and you don't know where to go. So when you think about Weekend to Remember, you may even have another couple come to mind. And these gift cards really do make great gifts as well.

So all of them are half off right now through November 27th. You could go to familylifetoday.com, look for the banner on the screen and get a Weekend to Remember gift card. Now, coming up next week, parenting challenges in the digital age are extremely complex and head scratching. Well, Dr. Colin Outerbridge is going to be here with Dave and Ann Wilson to talk about just that. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.