Secrets of a Stronger Marriage: David and Meg Robbins

OK, got a question for you. If you were going to ask any married couple, or even a couple going to get married, and I'm talking, they may be church-going couples, they may be Christian couples, they may have never been in church their whole life, what do you think the goal of their marriage is?

What would you say? Happiness. I don't think it really makes much difference if you're a follower of Christ or not. Most people, Christians and nonbelievers, they want to be happy. In fact, they found the one, and that one is going to make them happy, and then they get married, and often that doesn't take place. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com or on the Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. We're going to talk about the purpose of marriage today.

We've got David and Meg Robbins in the studio, president of Family Life. And obviously, when you guys got married, was that what you were thinking? Man, I found the woman. I found the guy that's going to make me happy. I remember. Were you way more mature than that?

Well, no, was not more mature, but I do remember thinking, I found someone who will do ministry with their full heart. I would say this. That's a different perspective than most people. I mean, most people are honestly, I found the woman.

I found the guy. I'm going to be happy. We're going to be fulfilled as number one. Maybe ministry is down there, but not top of your mind. And you said, no, it was top of your mind.

It was top of my mind, but what I want to pull back is the reality of, it was kind of to meet my own needs. Hey, be my sidekick in ministry. Come on, let's go do this together. I've got a plan.

I've got a calling and join me. And let's just say that marriage is about joining your callings toward a new calling and a new oneness of what God has. And that took some time to kind of unearth and it wasn't happy in that process.

I mean, Meg, did you pick that up? Did you feel like he's got a plan and I'm just sort of a sidekick? I think during our first year of marriage or so, I mean, we had definitely talked a lot about our calling and wanting to have an impact for the Lord. And so I mean, we both, that was super important to me too. So I knew that was definitely a part of who he was and who we would be. But I think that, yeah, I mean, the first, our first year of marriage, he was already really established as a leader in ministry on the campus where we were.

And I had just, I was actually still a student when we first got married. He was the one who was kind of like the big L leader. And it wasn't until we went overseas that really shifted for us and we became much more of a team.

I was definitely before that time, kind of the sidekick for David. I don't think we knew that. No, we didn't know it until we were overseas and we realized, oh, this is what being a team really looks like.

Well, let's just say you guys are unusual. Most couples don't come into marriage thinking, yeah, we're going to change the world together. Dave and I had that perspective because of our crew background. Like, oh, we're together so that we can impact people.

Why do you think most people don't have that perspective? Well, and if I'm honest, I will say that even though that was our perspective, even for me as a young, you know, I was very young, I was still in college and you did make me very happy. You know, I loved our dating relationship and I couldn't wait to be married.

So there was still even a part of me that thought this is going to make me happy. I mean, I think we had some people that gave us perspective that marriage is hard, you're going to have to work at it. So I think people think that because when you're dating and when you, you know, you're in that place where you're thinking of the future and you're dreaming, you're super hopeful that this person is going to continue to make you happy and meet that desire to, yeah, just for life to be flourishing because of this person. And you don't, you don't realize it, but I think people put so much hope and expectation in a person and their ability to make them happy, you know, rather than your own choices, your own life.

You're ultimately for us, your relationship with Jesus, you know, that's where you're going to find not happiness as much as joy that lasts. I think ultimately we know that even on our best days, we can't satisfy one another completely. Like that is God's lone ability in our lives. And yet we can bring flourishing and happiness and marriage can be amazing. And marriage is amazing.

With that said, it also exposes a lot of the ways we need Jesus. And you know, I just think about our entry into marriage and marriage simplified a lot of our three years of dating. We're like, finally, you know, I don't have to take her home at the end of the night.

This simplifies a lot, but then fast forward to moving overseas and a lot got exposed. And so there was a simple season to start where there was a lot of happiness, but then a lot got exposed when we were in a place that was not comfortable, that was not known, especially in my life. It was a season of obscurity for me when Meg really began to flourish and I started seeing how much I needed to grow in order to make us, you know, flourish together. I think one other reason why people expect the purpose of marriage and what I'm going to get out of this is I'm going to finally be happy is because that's what the world is telling us. Every movie, every book you read, I mean, not everyone, but anything that's about marriage and even fairy tales from when you're a little girl and they lived happily ever after.

That's like the end of the movie, you know, so you just assume. But I think even stories, you know, You Complete Me from Jerry Maguire or whatever it is, I feel like that is the message that we hear for years and years leading up to marriage. I think really for us, the first time we really got a picture that God had a bigger dream, a bigger mission, purpose for marriage was sitting at the weekend, remember, as an engaged couple, two weeks before our wedding.

That was, wasn't it? It was like the first time anybody had ever opened God's word and said, what is God designed for marriage? Obviously now we teach that, but we had never heard it. So on our wedding night, two weeks later, before we crawled in our wedding bed, we got on our knees and we prayed a prayer that was different than we would have prayed if we hadn't gone to the weekend to remember. Literally, we said, God, we're not asking you for a good marriage, but a great marriage that will one day impact the world for your kingdom. That last part of the prayer came from a perspective from God's word that we had never had before. And I remember as we struggled in year one and then as many have heard, struggled in year 10 and struggled a lot in all the other years too, we sort of thought God can't use us to impact the world because he uses really good marriages and ours is sort of broken. We felt disqualified.

Yeah, and it's the opposite. God's like, no, I have a purpose and it's bigger than you two just being happy. I actually want to use you to impact the world. And here we are. I mean, it's amazing that we're sitting here talking about this. So we all speak at the weekend to remember now. It's still something we teach at the weekend to remember. So if somebody came up to you guys on a sidewalk or at a volleyball match that you're with other parents. Sitting in the bleachers a lot these days.

Yeah. I mean, you guys are on sidelines with other parents and said, hey, does God have a plan? Is there a mission for marriage bigger than being happy?

How would you answer it? Marriage is the amazing reflection of how Jesus pursues and loves us. That is what marriage is at its core. It is meant to be a husband like the bridegroom, Jesus himself, who is with everything he has laying down his life, lowering himself in order to pursue the bride, which we image bearers of God are his bride, that he is coming to redeem and restore and out of that redemption and amazing building of God's kingdom happens. That is what marriage is.

It is a reflection. Our marriage can be one of the loudest gospel messages we ever preach. Now we have to preach the gospel with our words, obviously, because Romans 10 tells us that, but yet the way we are able to encounter Jesus in our own failings and then extend the grace of Jesus to one another in those failings ends up declaring the mystery that God actually has come to save sinners.

And he has come to not only save them, but to redeem and to restore them in order to be able to live out something by the power of his Holy Spirit that they can't do on their own. You know, we just taught that we can remember in Minneapolis, and we're trying to make the point. David, he just nailed a whole 50-minute talk we give.

You'd think he was the president or something. Yeah, you know, we know this stuff. But, you know, the big idea there is, like you said, that somehow this is almost a mystery, Paul says in Ephesians 5, that, you know, marriage reflects the bride and Christ. And so it's like somehow the way we love one another reflects to our neighbors the way God loves us. Now that's in one sense, like, wow, that's awesome. The other sense, like, that's really scary that our neighbors and those parents you're with on soccer fields are looking at us and they should get an idea of what the gospel, the good news is. This is how Jesus sacrificially loves his bride by the way we treat one another. I told this story one year when we were with the Detroit Lions.

Here we are talking about football again. Here we are, we had a quarterback come in from another team and he was just on fire, Christian man, and John Kitten was his name, and he had this vision that God wanted to use the Christians to reach the locker rooms. Long story short, the Bible study on Monday nights, which was for couples and anybody, singles, bring your girlfriend, married couples, anybody could come.

You know, we've been Detroit Lions chaplains for 30 some years. We typically get 8 or 10 people because it's pretty high commitment to come to a Monday night study during an NFL season. When John's there and Jennie, his wife, and they had kids, this thing starts to grow and grow.

And by week five or six of the season, there's 50 people coming, 45, 50 people every Monday night. We find out they're driving two cars to get a seat at the Bible study. And it was just crazy. And I remember one night there's this defensive back sitting there, and he's like the wildest dude on the team. And I should have been really excited that he was there.

And so the Bible study was just getting really sad. Well, you were excited he was there. I mean, I was excited, but here's what comes out of my mouth. I'm like, dude, what are you doing here? Just like that. Instead of like, hey, I'm glad you're here.

I was just, it sort of came out, I'm sort of shocked. And I'll never forget this. John and Jennie are sitting right beside me. And the Bible study, people just sitting down and I go, what are you doing here? He goes, I want what they got. And he points to John and Jennie. He goes, they got something I've never seen.

I want it. And I thought right there, I go, that's the purpose of marriage. They are living in such a way that somebody that's far from Christ said, I want what they got. And guess what?

He gave his life to Christ before that season was over and got baptized. And I thought that is the beauty of our marriage reflecting to others. This is what the heart of God is like. Don't you think our culture ever more so is looking to that and wanting that and longing for it and is attracted to that, a really solid marriage and couple.

I mean, I think there's a freedom in it. What our marriages can display when you're committed forever, you know, when you've made a covenant commitment that no matter what I see in you, I'm staying here. And what we experience with Jesus is that same covenant commitment. No matter what mistakes I make or things I think in my head or whatever it is, he's never going to be repulsed by me or turned from me. And in our marriage, we have the same opportunity because we all know that if there's anybody who knows, all the junk is certainly my spouse.

David knows all those things that not everybody knows. He sees the good, the bad, the ugly, and there's plenty of it, you know? And yet that commitment of, but I love you and we're going to work through this because we know forgiveness and we know we've experienced that from Jesus, we can give that to one another freely. And, you know, there's just a security that comes from that too. I think that's why the culture and the world is attracted to it. It gives glimpses of God's glory.

That's what marriage does, that's what family does. And it ripples into people. And I just love thinking, okay, the guy who came to know Jesus, who you couldn't believe was there, how is he rippling into other people's lives now? That's the model he saw. So he's going to go show and tell of what he saw in the same way. And what I love about the kidneys is the example of they lived it and he wanted what they had, but they were also intentional and it wasn't passive.

They were gathering people. He came with the vision and there are practical things we can do to help reflect Jesus to the people around us. Ooh, let's talk about those. What do you think are some practical things that we can do as couples? I mean, first and foremost, I think as we even go into this zone of, okay, what are ways we can take steps of faith? First and foremost, you can just talk to God and go, God, you know the place you've put me.

I'm where you put me. And I want to hear and see what you see and hear what you hear and give me eyes to see what's going on around me. And in doing that, I think it's really important that we genuinely love people. I mean, that's ultimately what Jesus did. He genuinely loved people and there wasn't an agenda or, and they weren't a project. And I think that just before we get into practicals, one of the things to not do is to make someone your project.

There's nothing that repulses people more, you know, especially in our day and age. So we really need to have a heart check of, all right, we want to be a marriage on mission. We want to think intentionally about the people around us that God has put around us that we have unique favor with or someone that we keep bumping into, or it just gets put on our heart and go, God, why do you keep crossing my path with that person?

Or why do you keep putting them on my heart? But as we think about that, like, let's ensure we're not making them our project because we can water as 1 Corinthians 3 says, others can, you know, plant seeds, but only God can make growth happen. And so continuing to understand our role. Let me add to you guys are in this prime season with the age of your kids, that you're around different parents all the time. People that are empty nesters, I'm hearing them come up. David and I are talking to people that are saying, our kids are gone.

Now what? You know, now we're thinking, what's the purpose of our lives now that our kids are out of the house? But I like what you're saying, David, pray, God, who are you bumping me into even being intentional about the people we're around of loving them?

Well, that's good. And I think that family, it really is kind of that universal language. Every culture, every nation, every group of people has families, you know, and whether you come from a broken family or a solid, wonderful, loving family, or you lost your parents.

I mean, everybody has a story connected to family and often some combination of both heartache and goodness. And because of that, you referred to this earlier, Dave, but you know, I think there is something about just being honest about the broken places that we experience because others are experiencing those same felt needs. You know, whether it's, I really wish that I was doing these things differently with my kids as I'm raising them, or I can't figure out what to do with this one child who just keeps doing the same thing over and over, or maybe it's just that we keep having the same conflict and it's just like a cycle over and over. People around us are experiencing those same things. And when we get honest about what we're experiencing and how we're coming back to Jesus and back to one another, I mean, I just feel like kind of cracking open the door of what's really going on in our own home and in our own hearts is one of the most impactful things we can do.

But we kind of underestimate that. And I used to think, well, we really have to be at a certain place in order to have an impact on others. But that's like the biggest lie that the enemy would ever want us to believe, that we have to really be mature and in a really healthy place in order to impact others when the reality of maturity is humility and depending on Jesus and walking with Him.

It's not that you have overcome and never struggle as, what do I do as a parent? That's dependency is maturity in my opinion. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the exciting things when we understand as a married couple that there's a bigger purpose. He wants to reflect himself to the world through us.

It gets you excited like, oh my goodness. So even the trials and problems we have, don't hide them, let people see them and then let them see Jesus in it. I know that, you know, for 12 years, I think it was 12 years, I coached high school football because my boys were in this high school and I wasn't like on the staff, but I was just a helper. But every day when I would walk from the school building locker room down to the varsity field, there's this little ramp. And every single time I made that walk, I prayed. Just to remind myself, I'm not here to win football games, although of course we want to do well. I just needed to remind myself, God's called us to make an impact on our corner of the world. That's a family life principle right there.

This is the corner He's putting me in right now. And I would literally just say, God, I'm here to make boys into men, followers of Christ helped me shine today, my language, my attitude, everything. It was just this little walk, this silent prayer. It was just a reminder, this is why we're on this planet. And man, all those families ended up in our home, in our church.

I mean, couples, families, legacies were changed because a guy coached high school football and he had a bigger vision than just winning football games. That's what it's about, right? And you were praying a prayer to God opened my eyes. What are you doing around me?

And it's no wonder that those people ended up around your kitchen table. And I, to get really practical, there are planned things that we can do and need to do. And there are organic things just to go, God, I want to be responsive in the moment. We were so blessed two weeks ago to have a neighbor who noticed our tire was flat and we had never changed this tire on this big car that we had that's fairly new.

It's a 2009 with a lot of mileage, but it's new to us. And anyway, he got under there and helped us change this tire, spent two hours. We were so blessed by a neighbor that chose to take the margin to invest in us. Like our trust with him is at a totally different level now or taking margin and even emotional margin on the bleachers to go, I'm going to actually start the conversation. I'm going to initiate it. But there's also planned things we can do. You know, the example you gave with the kidneys is a great example of hosting a small group to go.

People want healthy marriages and families like that is a universal longing, like Meg said. And so whether it's picking up a resource like vertical marriage, the small group you guys did going on mission trips, one of the things we looked at each other and just said, you know, we thought 20 years ago that we would be ones that would take our family on mission trips and have our kids engaged in mission with us. And we're like, well, we haven't been doing that.

So how can we change that? Well, family life has started family life mission trips, just so you know, it's family life.com slash missions, and some are for couples, some are for kids of different ages. And we've gone on a few now, maybe you reflect a little bit just on how meaningful it's been. Yeah, we took our kids last summer with family life, partnering with Filter of Hope.

And we went to the Dominican Republic, and it was phenomenal. I mean, it was amazing, even just for us being around people who don't know Jesus in a context where they have a deep physical need to we were bringing clean water filters. And I think the most powerful thing for us personally, that we experienced was just watching our kids who the first day the way I love about this opportunity in particular is there's kind of something for everyone to do. So, you know, one person can kind of drill a hole in a bucket and another person can explain how the water filter works. I think one of our kids job was just to hold the clean cups, you know, for the water and then like another person's going to kind of, you know, explain how the water filter works.

And then somebody else will share their story and maybe talk about how there's actually a more amazing living water for you. And in that process, our kids kind of went from, yeah, yeah, you talk about Jesus, and we'll drill the hole in the bucket on the first day. But as we went through the next few days, by the end, they're like, can I be the one to tell about Jesus? Just seeing them slowly move through that process and gain courage by watching other people or their peers take steps of faith or other teenagers on the trip. And then other people who, other than us, coming alongside them, other parents or other, you know, young 20-somethings saying, hey, you got this.

You can do this. Why don't you give it a try this time? And it was phenomenal. I think it really impacted us as a family just to think about, okay, this is obviously a different context. We're not every day going to be in a different country. But how can we go home and think through who are the people God's put in our life who don't know Him or, you know, need the truth of Him or the hope that He has to offer? And how can we, as a family, love on those people? And what does that look like in our everyday life? We can say, because we're a little bit ahead of you in life with grandkids now, we did mission trips with our kids, and it marked them for life.

They're not going to forget those moments. And one of the things that surprised me is when you invite even a neighbor or a friend that's not a church-going person, they often will say yes to a mission trip because they want to help the world. And then you get them in that environment, and there's your marriage, again, making an impact on a neighbor. You know, I think about being a marriage on mission, and 1 Thessalonians 2, 8 comes to mind. So, being effectually desirous of you, we were ready to share with you not only the gospel of God, but also our own selves because you had become so dear to us. And as we love people well and not have an agenda, as we're intentional and organic, ultimately that we would grow so desirous of people and the beauty of the gospel, that it would be our first love in such a way that we can't help but to express it out to the world around us.

This isn't something in the past. This is something in our current that we're experiencing together personally and in our marriage. And from that place, we're going to pass it on.

We've got to pass on the greatest thing that's in our lives if we're really experiencing it. And so, as we do that, one of the simplest things to do is you can always start with your table. If you don't know where to start, and mission trips seem like, well, not now, or leading a group, you're like, I don't know.

I need to like, you know, order the thing and see what the content is. Those are good steps to take. You can start with your table. Not everyone may come to church with you, but pretty much everyone will say yes to an invitation to your table. And the thresholds of trust that happen when you get someone around a table, over a meal, it seems a lot like how Jesus did ministry. And you as a family can have people in your home and watch God as you take interest in their story and really get to know them, do amazing things by you just loving them well and sharing your story. I'm Shelby Abbott and you've been listening to David and Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on Family Life Today. Yeah, start with your table, your own kitchen table in your home, your dining room table in your home, your coffee table, over a meal, and watch your life and the lives of others change for the glory of Jesus. I love this conversation today and it resonates so close with my heart, that missionary spirit in me that has made me be on staff with crew and now family life for so many years.

I love it. And I also love knowing when to say no to things or when to recognize that maybe my limitations are a good thing and not necessarily a bad thing in this hurry, hurry, hurry world. You know, earlier this week we had Kelly Kapik on Family Life Today and he's written a book called Your Only Human, how your limits reflect God's design and why that's good news.

Man, need to hear that. This book is going to be our gift to you when you partner with us financially here at Family Life. So you can go online to familylifetoday.com or give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329.

Again, that number is 800, F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. And feel free to drop us something in the mail if you'd like to. Our address is Family Life 100 Lakehart Drive, Orlando, Florida 32832. Now, if you know anyone who needs to hear conversations just like the one you heard today, would you share it from wherever you get your podcasts? And while you're there, you can really help others learn about Family Life Today by leaving us a review. Now coming up next week, Ed Welch is going to be with Dave and Ann Wilson talking about fear and anxiety.

Most of the time we recognize that as a bad thing, but Ed began to realize that anxiety was actually a gift from the Lord in his case. That's coming up next week. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.