Marriage First

All right, so I want you to fill in this blank. Are you ready? I like filling in blanks.

Let's do it. Okay. More than half of all parents feel that they are blank. Clueless.

I didn't even finish in their first year of parenting. Yeah, definitely clueless. Clueless.

Have no clue. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. More than half of all parents feel that they are blank.

Is this like a real thing? Like there's an actual blank? Well, I was reading this great book. Because it should be clueless. And it's failing. Oh, that too. So clueless and failing in their first year of parenting.

We are failing because we're clueless. Did you feel that? Oh, absolutely. I mean, bringing home son number one, looking in the crib and thinking, I have no clue. I don't know what to do. Of course, I didn't have a dad.

I didn't really have a model to look back on. But yeah, I mean, being overwhelmed with what do you do? And I felt like, I don't know what I'm doing.

And whatever I'm supposed to be doing, I'm failing at it. And so I think a lot of parents feel that. And that's why we're excited today to have- You need a good parenting book. Yeah. And we've got one. With Becky Bodwin. Becky's been with us.

And we're excited to have you back, Becky. Welcome to Family Life Today. Thank you. Yeah.

And I love the title of your book, Enjoy Every Minute and Other Ridiculous Things We Say to Moms, which you've got 12 ridiculous things we say to moms as an author, as a speaker, as a mom, as a mom getting ready for a wedding. Yes. You know.

How many years have you been married? 26. To Bernie. Yes.

Becky and Bernie. That's cute. Yeah. Thank you. And so, but you've been writing for a while. You've been speaking to moms for a while. And so you wrote this book and we've been already talking about some of the myths or some of the things that we hear that are kind of crazy. Yeah.

What have we hit? Oh, we've hit, you know, Enjoy Every Minute, the title of your book, Wait Till They Become Teenagers. There's all these great ones. I mean, I'm just telling you, pick up the book. You're going to enjoy every single one of them.

But the one that's interesting today is, let's see, it's your seventh one. Kids Come First, You Can Work on Your Marriage Later. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that because that is a very common thought. Yeah. You know, the kids are the priority. They're most important. They come first. Your marriage will always be there.

You can work on it later. Whatever way you say it. It's like the kids are the priority in the home. Yeah. Are they?

Are they not? As you're even talking about that, I would kind of compare it to maybe we do that with our health too. Like I don't have time right now to be healthy.

I'll do that later. So I feel like with marriage, it's not something that will just on its own continue to grow and get better and better and better. It's something we have to pay attention to. But I think it's so common and just a very natural thing for the demands of parenting to just kind of push our marriage to the back burner where we just feel like we don't have the energy, we don't have the money, we don't have the time.

Maybe we don't even have the desire to even work on this because everything is about the kids. I can't tell you how many women I've talked to that that is exactly where they are. When I say like, Oh, don't forget to put that marriage as a priority. And they're like, I don't even know what that means or how to do it. How am I supposed to do that?

I can't even get my hair washed once a week. So when you talk to women, how are you getting them to do that when they're feeling like they have no time to themselves, let alone to work on their marriage? Well, I think for all of us, it's going to be different depending on the health of our marriage. So my husband and I, I'm very open and honest in the book about writing about our struggles. We have gone through a lot in our marriage. We came into a marriage workshop at our church probably 20 years ago. I had called and said, we would like to come to this workshop.

It was called restore. And they said, well, this is only for people who are really kind of like on the brink of divorce. And I thought, well, I mean, we're really struggling, but I don't think we're at that point. And then three months later they did the workshop again.

And I was like, I think we're like, I think we qualify now. Not that we were thinking of divorce, but things were just getting worse and worse. So not everybody has that as their story.

Not everybody has the struggle that we have had with learning how to resolve conflicts and dealing with our family of origin issues and the baggage. So a lot of people have, and I think that they would be able to relate, but we came into that workshop and we never left. We stayed and we became apprentices. We became table leaders and we just became a part of that ministry because it helped us so much. Did you have kids at the time?

Oh yes. We had children, um, you know, and we went to counseling. I remember one of my favorite pictures in our home is hanging on the wall and it was a picture that our older two daughters drew while we were in counseling, fighting with each other, but really fighting for our marriage.

And they could probably hear us in the waiting area where they would sit. The counselor would give them this big pad of paper and some pencils and crayons. And we came out one day and they gave us this picture and it's Bernie and I and all these like a computer and a bicycle and a, um, a pot to cook on the stove and I felt like all these different things that we did and they wrote at the bottom, like number one, mom and dad. And I have that hanging in our home because I remember at that point just feeling like we are failing so miserably and I don't know if we can pull this together. I don't know if we can get through this, you know, so it was a gift I think in the sense that we had to pay attention to our marriage because it was so broken at one point.

But I think, you know, there's a danger if you don't do the work and that's your story, but there's also a danger if you'd say, well, we don't really have those problems. We're just kind of drifting apart because the season that we are in right now, sending our daughters off to college, we know a lot of couples who are feeling like we don't really have much left. Like what is there really between us? We don't even know each other anymore.

It wasn't necessarily hostile between them. It was more like we're just like roommates and we haven't invested anything into this relationship and now there's nothing left. So I talk about all of that, but I, so I just encourage moms, whatever your marriage looks like, invest in it and find people who can come around you and who are for you and your husband. And I think that's really important, especially if you're struggling because I'll just say for me, it can be easy to go and find people who will sympathize with me. You know, I can tell them my story and they can say, Oh, that's so terrible.

You know that your husband said that or did that or whatever, but to have people who are for you and your husband and your marriage. I'm thinking of one of my best friends and at our worst point, I remember running out of the house at like midnight. I got in my car, I drove to my friend's house in my pajamas and rang the doorbell and I came in, I sat on our couch, I cried, I told her, you know, just how hard things were. We were in a stuck in a cycle of just fighting and not being able to resolve like the, you know, you would talk about those bricks that can be between you.

We had a wall of bricks that we just did not know how to break down. And so she prayed with me, I came home and the next day we got flowers and I looked at my husband and he was like, I didn't send them. He was probably thinking maybe I should have, that would have been a good idea, but we got them and there was a card on it that said, Becky and Bernie, we are on your side. And they had written their names and I still have that card and I never, we have never forgotten that.

We are on your side. They're for us and for our marriage and that's God's heart towards us. So I just encourage moms, whatever that might look like, whether it's a date night and figuring out how to just spend time together and have fun, whether it's counseling, finding somebody, a third party who can help you, whether it's a marriage workshop, like what we went to or anything that you can do to invest in your marriage.

Yeah. And obviously we've got the weekend to remember that really, really, really helps couples. But I want to ask this as a dad, cause I wonder what you two moms would say. I feel like it's, what? You know where I'm going to go?

You have no idea where I'm going. She has no idea. Maybe she does. It just feels like sometimes moms fall more in love with their kids.

Did you know that? Then they do their husband and I don't mean in love, but it's just like priorities and their needs come first. Again, they have needs. They're little toddlers or even though as teenagers, it can often feel sometimes as the husband and as the dad. I mean, she loves me, but I'm secondary right now because the kids have needs and she's with them all.

I don't know. It's just sometimes you feel like, wow, I'm not number one in this house. I was at one point and I may be again someday if I stay around, but right now it feels like they're the priority and they're number one. And I'm, and so it's sometimes you're like, I'm not going to pursue time in this marriage because I don't feel like a priority. I'm going to defer to Becky. I'm speaking for some men.

I don't know if other guys feel that way, but I'm guessing there's some guys going, yep. I know that I did that. And I can remember thinking I'd rather be with the kids than with Dave at times because I was mad at you sometimes. And part of that was because we let our marriage slip. We continued to date, but our date night started slipping.

I remember going on dates thinking I don't have the energy to really go there. And so we would talk about nothing. We would just eat, talk about the kids, talk about work, and that was it. And I knew that Dave didn't want to talk about the marriage and I felt too tired to talk about it. And it really took us to a bad place in terms of I lost everything.

I didn't feel much for Dave. And I think that's the easiest time for that to happen is when our kids are young because we're exhausted. And we honestly, in our marriages, we can be resentful too. And I think it's so critical that we really do address those issues.

Becky, what do you think about that when dads feel like, oh, I'm not nearly as important as the kids? Well, I'm thinking about what you said. And I think what I would like to kind of add to the conversation is... You don't want to counsel us right now, do you?

No, no, no, no. One of the things I talk about in the book is just the way that my husband and I would communicate in that kind of a situation. So what I would call what you said is the story. It's the story you have in your head. So it's, I'm not important. I'm not a priority. And I'm wondering what maybe the wife's story might be. The wife's story could be I'm exhausted and he doesn't even notice. Or it could be... Everything is more important to you than us. Yeah. Oh, we are in a counseling session right now. I like it. I am not a counselor. It's our table time.

I am not at all a counselor. But I feel like the thing that has transformed our communication the most is being able to verbalize our stories as separate from facts. That's a good... I haven't heard that word, your stories. Yeah.

I think Brene Brown talks about that. That's one of the things that... That's the language that we used in the marriage workshop that we've been a part of for 20 years. But the way that we learned to communicate was to be able to just verbalize the facts separate from the story. So the facts could be, we've got these kids and we don't get to spend very much time together. It could be a fact that we haven't been on a date in six months. It could be a fact that both people are feeling kind of distant if you both agree that that's a fact. But our stories, I think, is what messes up our communication the most because the story is if we think it's a fact, if you're going off of that, I'm not important, he doesn't see me or she doesn't see me or I'm not a priority, that can lead to a lot of miscommunication. So I think getting to the point where you can talk about that, being able to say what your feelings are and feeling sad because we just haven't had time to connect with each other and affirming each other. That's another thing that's built into the cycle that we kind of use to communicate, affirming, you're doing so much, I know you're exhausted, I'm affirming who you are and what you're doing. And then one of the stories I have to tell you that I have, it may or may not be true, is I just kind of feel like maybe I'm not a priority. And that's so much easier to hear than you don't care about me.

Does that make sense? It's really good. Really wise, too. It's life-changing to be able to just name it in that way. And what it does is I think it takes the defensiveness down, because it's so easy in that moment to say, well, you don't feel like you're a priority.

I don't feel like I'm a priority, you know? I remember the time your dad was up and he sort of said that to you. I remember thinking... Oh, thanks for bringing that up. Well, I mean, her dad and I had never talked about this, but he's just sort of... My dad was there for the weekend and he's observing us and he's watching our family dynamic and he says... Our story.

Yeah. He says to me that night, man, you really are good to your kids. And I was like, oh, thanks, dad.

That means a lot. He goes, poor Dave. Too bad you don't treat him as well as you treat the kids. And I got super defensive because my mom treated him like the king. And I felt like, well, you know, I'm not going to treat Dave like he's Jesus and he's the king. And I was so, so terrible. But later when he left, I said, Lord, is that true?

Do I treat Dave like he's nothing? And I'm highlighting our kids all the time. And so I said, if that's true, Lord, I need to hear that and just show me through other people, through the word, through whatever, like speak to me. And so later, maybe a week later, I get a letter from my dad. I don't think I've ever had a letter from my dad in my life.

And it's this Ann Landers newspaper clipping that he put in an envelope that basically the headline was, when your husband feels like the kids are more important, it will destroy your marriage. And I was like, oh, no. But it was good for me to hear. And sometimes when other people can observe what's going on, I was able to hear it. Dave had told me that, but I was more defensive. I felt like God was getting my attention that time and it was helpful.

But I would say this, it was very easy for me at the time to not pursue her. Again, I'm feeling neglected. I'm feeling like the kids are more important. And yet I'm not doing anything intentionally to say, I love you. And I see what you're doing as a mom and it's exhausting and overwhelming. I'm just standing over here going, what about me? What about me?

It's like a victim. And I would even say to the dads and the husbands right now, go after her. Because the thing that changed that captured some romance back in our marriage was I started pursuing her and she did me too. But she is exhausted and the kids are all consuming. And it was very easy just to sit over there and wallow in the pity party instead of going, wait, wait, wait, wait, what am I doing about this? You know, the date night thing.

That's my job. I need to get that on the calendar. I need to get the sitter. I need to get her out of the house. And when we got that back on the calendar and I got her out of the house, it was an hour as we sat at a restaurant before she was fully there. Because again, she's a mom and she's got all these things going on back home and it's like, you know, you're looking at her like, are you here yet?

You know, and eventually she would. And we even put in our vertical marriage book that there needs to be a daily, weekly, yearly sort of rhythm. And the daily is like, what would it look like to pray with your wife, pray with your husband every day?

And I know some are like, are you kidding me? How do we do that? Even if it's a one minute prayer, just that connection on a daily basis, what would it look like to really make a weekly date a date? You know, as you say in your book, the marriage has, it can't wait till later. It has to be right now, you know, and our kids, now that they're adults and married, date. And I think it's because they saw mom and dad date when it was hard to do. And there were times like, are we really going to, it was like, oh, it just, it brought something back into our marriage because when we went on that date and was adamant that we're going to talk about our relationship, you know what I mean?

So that was something that ended up happening. And then once a year, the retreat annually, it's like, you know, pray daily, date weekly retreat annually is once a year, do what you did. Go to a store, go to a weekend to remember, go to a vertical marriage.

I don't care where you go, just get away for a weekend and put something into your marriage. Cause it's the hardest time to have a great marriage. Isn't it? Yeah. And we've been married 40 years. Our kids are all grown and I'm going to tell you it is worth it. Yeah.

Invest in your marriage because when your kids are gone, you won't look at each other and say, who are you? I think we look at each other and like, this is fun. I mean, it's the best in some ways, the best years of your marriage.

Yeah. I mean, we love the kids and we want them in our home, but it is an empty home now. And you look across the table and you're like, I'm in love with her. And if we hadn't have done all the hard work in the hardest years, we may not even be sitting in the same house. And there's so many that they look at each other after the kids are gone and their whole life has been about the kids and they have nothing.

And these are the best years if you paid the price. And so if you're a mom and maybe you're working or you're a stay at home mom, maybe you're nursing and you feel like I have no time to invest, for you to even show interest in your husband, say, tell me what's going on at work. Like I want to know, share your world with me and not feel resentful because a lot of times we're always comparing whose life is harder right then. But to really ask like, what's going on? How are you doing, hon? That means a lot to either spouse, I think.

You say under that marriage first, cause I think you said the four sets of five words. Yes. What is that all about? You know, things like that make me interested.

Like what are you talking about? I have heard moms say this was their favorite story in the whole book. I work part time outside the home and this older couple had come in. This was a few years back. They had just moved back to the Chicago area because she had Alzheimer's. So they were probably in their late seventies, maybe eighties coming in and I could see the deterioration every time they would come in. Sometimes she didn't know where she was, you know, repeating things. He was so patient with her, but I could see the frustration of him having to repeat things to her. And then he started coming without her.

And then they had to move back to Florida because she needed full time care. And then when he would come up to visit his kids, he would still stop into my place of work to visit me. And one day he came in and we just sat down and talked and he just poured his heart out and just, I could see in his eyes the pain of losing his wife gradually the way he was losing her.

So I listened and as he got up to leave, he kind of like said almost like under his breath as he was leaving, I affirmed him and just said, you are an amazing husband and you, you have loved her so well and you are. And I said, I'll pray for you because that's the only thing I could think. And I didn't mean it like there's nothing like it's a last resort. It's like, it's maybe the only thing that will help you.

I'll pray for you. And as he was leaving, he looked back and said, four sets of five words and just was kind of like walking out and I didn't get it. So I asked him to repeat it and he said, four sets of five words for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer in sickness and in health till death do us part.

And then he was gone. And I just stood there thinking, we all want to grow old together. I think when we get married, that's what we want. And the only way to do that is to live out these vows every single day. So I love Dave, how you came back and you even just what you said about how you weren't pursuing your wife and to put it back on the, the marriage. It's not even so much, I'm not a priority.

You're not a priority. Are we making our marriage a priority? Can we start there to do the work over the years so that we can get to a point where we have grown old together, whatever that will look like in keeping our vows every day. What a beautiful story. And our kids are always watching. I know that story is my story because it's my parents and they were married 70 years. And I think growing up, I thought, I wish dad would treat my mom better. I wish he would serve her.

I wish he wasn't all about himself. And then when she started getting dementia, Alzheimer's, he started cooking. He'd never, ever cooked or done anything, cleaning, taking care of her. And mind you, now I'm an adult, but I'm still watching their marriage.

I'm still watching them. And he did that, Becky, like he cared for her. It was the most beautiful, remarkable serving that I've ever seen in my life.

And it got to the point where she didn't want to be anywhere out of his sight. It was pretty remarkable, wasn't it, Dave? Yeah. I mean, we moved them right before the pandemic out of their forever home into assisted living. She was at a place where she needed care beyond what he could do.

He had two rods put in his femurs from cancer. I mean, you know, and right now I can see us loading up the truck. Yeah, look at it. Dick and toot. I could just see him.

She's gone now. But you know, you think of a wedding picture and everybody thinks it's so beautiful because you get this perfect couple. They're the best they're ever going to be. They're young and beautiful and hopeful.

Yeah. And they may not even be young, but it's the best, you know? And you smile because those wedding pictures are glorious. But when you see a couple that stayed together because of those words, for better, for worse, sickness and health, and we don't look as good, you know, physically gravity wins, you know, but that picture when you've stayed together through the kids, through the teenage years through and you fought for it, that's a glorious picture, you know? And so I would say to a couple that's struggling right now with their little kids or their teenagers, hang on, fight for it. Those four sets of five words is a vow that God will help you keep and hang onto it, fight for it.

The best years are coming. Dave, will you pray? Like us, just pray for. Yeah, let's pray. Father God, thank you for really being there when life is overwhelming, as we've been talking about, and giving husbands and wives and moms and dads, supernatural Holy Spirit power and grace and patience. When we can't muster it up in our own strength, even peace, when there's no peace in the home or in the marriage. God, you alone are our help.

There's no one else. And so we surrender our lives, we surrender our marriage, we surrender our kids, we surrender the future to you, and we ask you to be what we can never be. And we pray protection over our kids. We pray a powerful future over them and that you just bring grace to our mistakes, because we will blow it many times as parents, but you can oversee all of that and raise amazing children to be amazing adults.

And we could never do it without you. So we surrender again to you today. And I pray for the couple or the home right now that's really, really hurting. I pray for grace. I pray for peace, supernaturally, the flood fill their home. In Jesus' name. Amen. Thanks, Becky, for being with us.

Thank you for having me. Grace is the right word, isn't it? If we don't have grace, then we're in trouble when it comes to parenting.

But God's grace covers a multitude of parental sins, and we can find hope in that. Dave and Ann Wilson have been talking today to Becky Bodwin, who has written a helpful book called Enjoy Every Minute and Other Ridiculous Things We Say to Moms. Becky's book is a book we're making available this week to Family Life Today listeners. Those of you who want to join the team and help extend the reach of family life today, help us reach more people more often with practical, biblical help and hope. Your donations are serving to disciple young moms and dads, young husbands and wives, people who are turning to us from all around the world. Our mission is to effectively develop godly marriages and families, and your donations help make that happen. So again, if you can make a donation today, we'd love to say thank you by sending you a copy of Becky Bodwin's book Enjoy Every Minute and Other Ridiculous Things We Say to Moms. Donate online at familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, the website familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-358-6329.

That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life, and in the word today. You know, David Ann's conversation today with Becky Bodwin reminds us that parenting is both exhilarating and exhausting. There's great joy and there is great challenge in raising the next generation. David Robbins, who is the president of Family Life, is here with us. And David, as the dad to four kids, you've experienced both of those feelings, right?

I have, absolutely. And really, in a season right now where there's been a lot of exhaustion and Meg and I are finding ourselves with some empty tanks that we're needing to address with one another. Meg's parents came for a visit. We were so grateful for them to get to come see us and our kids and our new home. And while they were here, Meg's 85 year old dad got COVID and it got scary, but the Lord was faithful and he made it through and we just sent him and his wife home. And Meg and I looked at each other going, man, we need to be intentional.

We are exhausted and empty. And what we did is we pulled back out Family Life's new resource, The Dates to Remember. We took out Moment One and we had an amazing, it prompted an amazing two hour conversation. And it just reminded me that when we feel exhausted and empty, when we listen to one another with empathy, quality conversations can fill an empty tank. And Meg and I were able to hear one another and where we're really at and that resource, Dates to Remember, took us to that place. It did the hard work of setting up the conversation where we could really go to the places underneath the surface that we needed to go to looking back at the season that we just walked through. So if you're finding yourself exhausted at all, if you're feeling like you need some intentionality to just a little bump and set in order to have some real honest conversations and quality conversation with one another, I would really encourage you to check out the Dates to Remember resource that we've got. There is information about Dates to Remember on our website at familylifetoday.com.

You can order it from us online or if you have any questions, give us a call at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Thank you, David. And we hope all of you have a great weekend. Hope you're able to worship together with your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday, especially if your house is a mess.

If there is clutter around, if you're having a hard time keeping things picked up, straightened up, whether it's you or the kids, doesn't matter. We're going to have a conversation about that Monday. We're going to hear from Kathy Lip, who has some great suggestions how to deal with our messiness. So I hope you can tune in for that. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I am Bob Lapine. We will see you back Monday for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.