The Seven-Ring Circus

I don't know if you've thought about this, but you're going to be married to somebody different 10 years from now than the person you're married to today. I mean, they may have the same name 10 years from now, the same driver's license, but as Jackie Bledsoe points out, they're going to be a different person. Stephanie is not the same person that I married in 2001. I'm definitely not the same person.

And we try to figure out how do we continue to learn that, what's the habits that we can do to continue to figure out so we don't drift apart and say, you know, we're just, we kind of grew apart. I don't really know him. I don't really know her. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.

I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. So if you're going to be different 10 years from now and your spouse is going to be different 10 years from now, how can you make sure you're growing together in that process, that you are still one?

We're going to explore that today with Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. I think all of us can kind of look at our marriages in stages or phases, don't you think? Absolutely. Everybody kind of travels. We don't travel the same journey. But we usually start out in an infatuation stage.

Right. And there is kind of a reality phase. We talk about this at the Weekend to Remember marriage getaway. There's that euphoria and then there's we're getting married and then there's, oh, it's different than I thought it was going to be.

And then there's, oh, you're disappointing me. And I mean, we all kind of move in and out of those phases and have to figure out when we're in the middle of that, what do we do? You know what I do at the Weekend to Remember? You probably, we've done what, a couple of these together? We've done these together, yeah. I always sing songs during that part because at the Weekend we talk about the romance phase, which moves to the reality phase, which moves to the renovation phase.

And when I was teaching that, it reminded me of a Stevie Wonder song, which we all knew became a commercial. I just called to say I love you. That's the romance phase. You know, but then after a while, it could be six months, could be six minutes, but you get to reality, it's like, I just called to say I'm wondering about you, right? And then the third one, renovation phase, is at some point you're just like, I just called to say I'm going to change you, right? And I guess we're laughing because it's cute, but it's true. Almost every couple encounters those phases at some point. And yet every couple thinks that's not going to happen to us. Right, right.

But it does, and it's normal. We've got some friends who are joining us this week on Family Life Today, Jackie and Stefana Bledsoe, guys, welcome back. Thank you so much. Thank you. Jackie and Stefana speak at our Weekend to Remember marriage getaways along with us.

They live in Indiana, parents of three children. They've written a book on the seven rings of marriage. You're really talking in this book about phases or stages that we go through, and you see there's kind of a predictable pattern that moves from romance to reality to renovation, some of these things, right? And, you know, when we first shared this, it was really just our marriage story. And there were so many couples like, oh, that's what ring we're in right now.

We're right there. So we then, after the fact, realized, yes, this is common for many couples to go through. And what we learned from our own story is like early on in marriage, we thought if there was a tough season, that was the completeness of our marriage. This is where we're always going to be. And we didn't know what was coming next.

You don't know what to expect. You don't know that the couples that start great and like, oh, we'll never be at that stage. The couples that are in a mess are like, we'll never be at that stage, the good stage. And so when we realized there was something else, then we could, okay, now what do we do to continue growing so we can go through all these rings and just be more mature, be more connected and just have our marriage really live in glory and honor to God. We talked earlier about the seven rings and about the fact that it starts with an engagement ring. You use that as a metaphor and then a wedding ring. What are the five that come after that as we work our way through this? Can you take us from engagement all the way through? Next, after the engagement ring is the wedding ring and then you go to the discovering. And that is typically when you come together in marriage, you're new in marriage, and you're starting to see things that you didn't see when you were engaged. Oh, it's the I'm wondering.

You're kind of like, what in the world? And if we're honest, we might be like, okay, like Stephana said, did I make the right decision to saying yes to this? And so that discovering is an amazing and enlightening stage. And you're saying that's a normal phase.

It is. Yeah, I think most of us show up in marriage with our best representative in the dating phase. And then as you get comfortable and you begin to recognize who you have for life, you begin to question, you know, had I known this, what would I have said?

Here's what I think happens. We come into marriage with an incomplete picture of the other person. We know certain things and the things we know, we really like. The things we don't know yet that we didn't I mean, you can't know somebody fully in an engagement or even in the early years of marriage.

These things that we don't know yet about the other person, we fill in the blanks with what we assume is the best. I'm sure you're going to act this way. I'm sure you're going to think this way.

I'm sure this is going to be how you do. And then you get into marriage and go, oh, it's not the way I expected you to be. That's the discovering phase where we go, you're different than I thought you were going to be.

I expected that if this ever happened, you would do this rather than that. And I know that when we were engaged, I really thought we have been so purposeful. We have shared everything with each other. I know you inside and out. But do any of us really know each other inside and out until we've lived with one another for a while? Because of course, you're going to see things.

Dave and I have used it as an illustration that we stand with one another as we're speaking and we just have all these suitcases lined up. And we think that we've unloaded all the suitcases, but there's so many that are hidden. And you can't get to those that are hidden because you don't, it's not that you're purposefully hiding them. You're just not aware of it until that other person makes you bring it out. And they can see the worst side of you can come out.

So true. And I would say too, even things that were really good at the beginning, my friend says it like this, what was once appealing can become appalling. And so some of those things that you really were attracted to and all of a sudden it's like, ah, that is kind of annoying right now. I know, Stephanie, you talk a lot about the way I organize things and all that. And it was great.

It looked great as an attractive bachelor. And then when I was in marriage, like everything doesn't always have to be clean all the time. I remember saying to him, I never have met a person that has more pet peeves.

Everything is a pet peeve. But earlier you thought what? I loved it. His car always smelled good. It was organized.

There was a place for everything in the car. It was great. I was like that with Dave. I was like, you are so laid back.

It's amazing. I'm intense. I'm high strung. And you just make me chill more. And then we got married like, you are so passive.

You need to get up and go. Here's the principle there. Every strength that gets overused becomes a weakness. And in the same way, I think it's good for husbands and wives to recognize that thing that you see in your spouse that you would go, that's a weakness. There is a hidden strength there that's being overused.

So Mary Ann has high standards about things. That's a strength. When she overuses it, she develops a critical spirit. That's a weakness.

Dave is relaxed and easygoing. That's a strength. When he overuses it, it's passivity. Every strength has a corresponding weakness when it's overused.

And what happens in marriage is those strengths that we were attracted to, we start to see them up close, more regular, or they get overused. And we go, no, I wanted not that much salt in the stew. I wanted a little less of that. Well, and here's, I would take it to the next step, Bob. I would think it's my job to help you be better at that.

Because it's super annoying, so I'm going to help you not be super annoying. And that's the question. You bring it up in your book, should we try to change our spouse? Because when we start to see those, that's our first thought is, you know, I just called to say I'm going to change you. Is that a good move?

Yeah, I definitely think it's not. We're not going to change that adult person that we married. I think it's more an opportunity for us to grow and to recognize that the Lord made him just the way he made him.

And if I can see those things in him as strengths, then I will be better off. Stephana, how did you do that? Because you talked about that was really bothering you.

So what changed? It was really prayer. It was time with the Lord, honestly, just asking him to see myself first, you know, that I not always see flaws in him because I'm not perfect. And I know that. So asking the Lord to help me to have grace in my relationship with him.

Yeah. And that's one of the beauties of the discovering as well is we kind of accidentally find out some of these things. But when we start, when we also find out stuff about ourselves. So in going back to the foundation and relying on Christ in prayer, he will start to reveal you when you're starting to want your spouse to be changed to line up with your idea of what they're supposed to do or not to do. And this is one thing that we get couples to do is we want you to be intentional about that discovering.

And so if you're just going in early on, it's accidental. But then you're like, okay, because we're growing, we're going to change over 5, 10, 15 years of marriage individually. But how do you become intentional about continuing to grow closer and learn who your spouse is? Stefana is not the same person that I married in 2001. I'm definitely not the same person. And we try to figure out how do we continue to learn that? What's the habits that we can do to continue to figure out so we don't drift apart and say, you know, we're just we kind of grew apart. I don't really know him.

I don't really know her. That becomes something that we didn't intentionally do. And I found that this one quote in your book, I've never seen this before.

I don't know who Joseph Barth is. Marriage is our last best chance to grow up. You don't ever think of it that way. But one of the discoveries I think is universal. Tell me if I'm right, is you discover how selfish your spouse is. Initially what you see is like, I can't believe she I can't believe he said selfish.

And I love how Tim Keller in the meaning of marriage, he says every couple has a three part discovery. One, my spouse is really selfish. Number two is, yeah, I'm selfish too. Number three, they're much more selfish than I am.

When you read that, you go, oh, I've been there. And that is exactly what happened with us as I saw Ann was so selfish. I was very slow to see how selfish I was. But the chance for me and you and all of us to grow up is that part where we go, yeah, my spouse is selfish, but I'm a lot more selfish. And if I don't ever recognize that, it's a discovery about your spouse. But there's also this, I got to discover this about me.

If I don't understand this, we're not going to go anywhere. But if I do discover I'm selfish, I can change. I can let God change me and that's going to change your marriage. Talk about that a little bit, because that selfish thing is huge. Did you really think I was more selfish than you?

We all do. Come on. And here's the truth. There's no way she's more selfish than you. I am the most selfish guy on the planet and marriage showed me that. I would not have seen that, I don't think, until marriage has that beautiful, it's horrible, but it's beautiful because you're like, I got to deal with this.

I think what you just said is key to that. One, you're speaking to the youngest child and an only child, so you can imagine the level of cater to me in our marriage. Honey, maybe that's our problem.

We're both the youngest. No, but as you go, your spouse is selfish and you are selfish, but God starts to change and recognize you more than them. So you start to say, there's no way she's more selfish than me. We can't really judge that, but basically God starts to put the focus back on you. It's like, here's what you can do. You can't look at her for everything that goes wrong or you can't look at him for everything that goes wrong.

I want to show you you. And when we get to that, it's not, it's really just him working on us. You know, we can't say, well, how do we handle this selfishness? God is going to focus on you. And he's going to make you change whether you like it or not. And as long as you're submitting to him, that's why the foundation is so important.

Every single ring, we point back to the foundation because that is going to direct us during that season of our marriage, that whatever challenges we're facing, whatever highs, lows and everything in between. But he will work on you individually as he works on your spouse individually too. Stephana, talk to the wife who has been diligently praying for her spouse. She feels like I've been serving him, trying to see the best in him for 25 years.

And he's still saying he's good. You know, there's no interaction. She's asking you because she's married to that guy. No, no, I'm not at all.

You're amazing. But I know there's so many women that her husband has no desire to really work on their marriage. He thinks he's fine and she just keeps going.

She keeps pursuing Jesus. How would you encourage her? I think the first thing I would do is acknowledge it is tough.

It's not an easy thing to do. But if we will surrender all of what we are dealing with to the Lord, he will give you the grace to walk through that. And I just remember a season where he gave me a scripture and I literally wrote it on a note card so that I could put it on my dashboard, so that I could put it over the sink, wherever I frequently was spending my time, I would see that reminder to me. And it was Galatians 6 and 9. And it said, Do not grow weary in well-doing, for at the proper time you'll reap a harvest if you do not give up.

And in that season, that was just a great reminder that he sees me, that regardless of what is happening between Jackie and I, the Lord has not forgotten me and that I need to continue to spend my time knowing that and reminding myself with that. Yeah, I saw that scripture everywhere. You didn't have to look that up. You've had that memorized.

Yeah. She literally had it engraved on her iPad. So, when she said she had it everywhere, everywhere she could put it, she had it. So, I've seen it, everybody's seen it, and I know for a fact that season, in all seasons, it's kind of pushed her through as she's continued to deal with whatever we've gone through in marriage.

And it is interesting. I just had this thought. We often say that we can't change our spouse. God does that.

And Anne and I have been on stages hundreds of times and literally said those words. Don't try and change your spouse. That's God's job. Just change you.

I still 100 percent agree with that. But at the same time, as you're discovering things about yourself and about your spouse, God wants to use us as a vehicle or a instrument to help our spouse become like Christ. So, if there's a belief, like I was sitting on the couch watching something. Anne's in the kitchen, and I'm watching something that her brother and I have a common relationship with, a person that was playing in this game, this sport game. And Anne says to me, hey, you should call my brother Jim and talk to him about this at halftime, because Jim would love to hear what you're talking about.

Now, I've got to be honest. If she would have said that to me 20 years ago, I'd be like, what are you telling me to do? Why are you telling me to call somebody? You know, you're always trying to change me, you're always trying to, you know. But she has believed in me for so many years and spoken life to me and trusted me and loved me, that when she said it, it wasn't a condemnation.

It was an idea that made me want to go, she's right. And so, in some ways I look, I'm like, I'm changed. And God did this, but she did it, because she spoke enough life and belief in me that I didn't see it as a harsh word anymore, like, I hate how you don't think this way. It was just like an encouragement. I pick up the phone, he's like, I can't believe you called me, man, I'm loving talking to you about this. And I wanted to go, yeah, that was my idea.

It was her idea. And I would have never done it without that little prodding, but I thought, you know, God does use our spouse to change us if we do it in a way that is received by our spouse. So, if you're talking to a couple in the discovering phase of marriage, and they're discovering things where they go, this is not what I hoped for, this is not what I expected, what's their best strategy in that phase of marriage? How do you get through that? Do you just keep your mouth shut and pray and put the scriptures all over your house? Or do you confront things? What do you do?

I think it starts with a conversation with your spouse, recognizing that, first of all, you're on the same team, that you're not trying to hurt them. And do you say that? I think you do.

I think you do. You have to have that safe place to have conversations that may be more difficult. We call it speaking the truth in love. And so, you might even quote that, say, I need to have a moment to speak the truth in love to you so that that can be prefaced and received. But I do think you have to have those conversations and to be able to say, you're not perfect, I still love you. And there's an illustration a pastor counseled us with that kind of helps you get a perspective on what's happening.

And I think that's one thing that we'll tell couples is, OK, here's the perspective. And he uses a hammer and a chisel as the illustration, and he's making a sculpture. So, there's a guy who's creating something. God is yielding the hammer. Sometimes you are the chisel and sometimes you are the hammer. I'm the hammer. God is going to use me to hit Stefan as a chisel to make this thing that he's trying to create in us together, this marriage. And then sometimes it flip flops. She's the hammer. So, God's still yielding it.

So, he uses both of us to create something greater in marriage that we would have no idea. But it hurts sometimes. It's painful. If you're a hammer, even though you're hitting, you're still getting some pain or getting some contact. When you're the chisel, definitely you're getting hit by something hard every single time. And it's like, this is uncomfortable, Lord.

That sounds terrible. It does. And it is hard sometimes, isn't it? But the outcome is beautiful, which is what you're aiming for. And you've got to recognize we're aiming for something that is bigger and more beautiful. And so, yeah, we're going to go through some painful periods.

But doesn't the Bible tell us that suffering produces character, that when we press through these? I've never forgotten somebody we had on Family Life Today years ago who said in the state of Oklahoma, they had done some surveys. They went to people who had filed for divorce but had not gone through with it.

So, in every state, there are people who file and, for whatever reason, don't go through with it. So, they went to these people at least five years after they had filed. And they said to them, today, how would you rate your marriage on a scale of one to five, with five being the best ever and one being terrible? And 83 percent of the people who had filed for divorce five years or more earlier said, our marriage is a four or a five. The couples who had persevered through the hard times, this is really, you go from the discovering phase to the persevering phase. It's the couples who persevere in the hard times who get through them, get out on the other side and say, we're in a better place. We've grown, we've learned that the hammer and the chisel did its work. We've got something more beautiful, more glorious here. Oftentimes, it's just couples saying, okay, let's get through this together.

And there can be glory on the other side of this. I think all of us would agree, our marriage looks nothing like it did at the beginning. Right. Aren't you guys, wouldn't you say the same?

Absolutely. And it has been through those hard moments of the chisel and the hammer that has formed something beautiful. And aren't we glad that our marriage doesn't look like it did in the early years?

We may not be glad in the moment, but man, I'm so thankful that God can use those tough times to shape us. And I think the easiest thing to do would have been to walk out. Oh, yeah. You know, it's like, it's so hard. I mean, I say that, I can feel how hard it was. Not that it's never hard now, but it was like unbearable at times. Like, I'm never going to be happy. We're never going to have what I thought we would have.

The dream, the visions, they just seem unreachable. And you're like, I'm going to quit. My parents quit. They probably did the right thing. I'm going to do the same thing. And I look now 40 years later and go, oh my goodness, my, it was worth it.

Yeah. I've shared this before, but there was a season in our marriage early on. We'd been married for five years, a variety of circumstances. We were living in a new city and a house.

I'd bought this house that Marianne had never seen before. It was just, it was not a good season. She's pregnant with our second child. She's depressed. I'm coming home at night and wishing I didn't have to come home at night. I didn't want to come to this. This wasn't the home I was in. I'd been at work all day.

I come home. She's miserable. She's unhappy.

And I remember there was a night I was out in the backyard and I was kicking dirt around in the backyard, you know, kind of looking up, just talking at the stars, talking to God and just kicking the dirt and going, here's the thought I had. I am not going to get a divorce because I can't and I won't and I shouldn't, but I understand why people want to. And to be in that place where you go, I don't want to be here. I don't want to be in this.

This moment is not pleasant. Now I can look back on that, having been married, coming up on 42 years and go, was that hard? Yeah.

Did God work through that? Absolutely. Am I glad we're together today? For a million reasons I am. Did I feel that way in the backyard?

No. I just thought I want this moment to stop because this is unpleasant. And that's, again, we're back to the enduring in hardships, which once you discover, oh, it's not going to be the way I thought it was going to be, then there are going to be some things you've got to endure, but perseverance pays off. You know, as we're talking, I'm thinking, oh, I would love every engaged couple to hear this conversation, wouldn't you? Because this is the reality.

It's not going to be easy. It's not maybe what you think it'll be just all like, oh, this is wonderful and I'm always going to love you, but it's more beautiful and it's the reality of marriage. Yeah, I think that that is what our hope is, is that couples will see that there are more rings and that they will be filled with hope that they can go through the hard rings and get to other rings. I think that is, that's the point is that we didn't realize that there's more to this. We just thought this is where we're going to be. And also that we were the weird couple going through this, like we're the only ones.

We're the only crazy couple that experiences this type of stuff. Whenever we're doing premarital counseling, I will say to couples now, it's going to be hard. And Marianne will say, it's going to be great. And I will say, yeah, it's going to be great and it's going to be hard. And she said, but it's going to be great. And both are true.

And so we want couples to understand there's real greatness and joy and you will love being married and there's going to be some hard stuff, maybe some of the hardest stuff you've ever faced as a human being. Yeah, I know that there's a Christmas movie I want to watch every year. And what is it? She never wants to watch it.

No, I do like it. It's called Family Man. Family Man with Nicholas Cage and Leonie.

And I'm not recommending it. There's some things in there I would not recommend, but it hits my heart because, and again, the whole gist of the thing is you have Nicholas Cage, this single man who's living the life in New York. He's got the cars and the, you know, the penthouse suite and women and money and a big corporation. And it's a glimpse, you know, the whole movie's like, this is what might have happened if you would have married your college sweetheart, but they didn't. And so they give him this glimpse that he's married with two kids in a little house in New Jersey. And by the end of the movie, he is like, this is what I missed. And every time I watch it, I tear up because I think of my mom and dad.

You know, and it's like they walked away from that and I was the son. So I think it hits me probably stronger than most because it's like, I think couples lose the vision of what it can be if they hold on and they persevere and they fight for their marriage. There's something that is beautiful. And again, it's hard and it's really hard. It never gets not hard. It's always going to be difficult. But to keep that vision that there's something worth fighting for, I'm not going to walk away.

I'm going to hang in here. I'm going to keep the wedding ring on and I'm going to fight for it because there's something beautiful that I can't even see yet. But if I hold on, and Anne and I are there, I think we all are, it's like we're living the family man vision. We've got a glimpse that's real and it's worth fighting for. And I think, Dave, the key too is holding on to Jesus. I mean, we're holding on to him as we're holding on to one another. And I think that's the key. You're making me think of Andrew Peterson, who wrote a song called Family Man. He says, I'm a family man traded in my Mustang for a minivan. This is not what I was headed for when I began. This was not my plan, but it's so much better than.

And that's the point. That's the vision you guys cast in the book, The Seven Rings of Marriage. And we're making that book available to our listeners this week. Any Family Life Today listener who can pitch in to help with the ongoing cost of producing and syndicating this daily program, keeping our website up and operating, all of the resources we produce, the events that we host, you make all of that possible when you say, I like what Family Life is doing and I want to see it continue. I think this is important for me, for my family, for our community. If you can say amen to that, then go on our website today and make a donation or call 1-800-FL today to donate to the ministry and ask for a copy of Jackie and Stefana Bledsoe's book, The Seven Rings of Marriage, your model for a lasting and fulfilling marriage. It's our thank you gift when you donate today. Again, you can donate online at familylifetoday.com or call to donate at 1-800-358-6329.

That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. And by the way, thanks to those of you who get in touch with us and who donate. We really do appreciate hearing from you. It's always nice to hear about how God is using family life today in your life, in your marriage, in your family. So thank you for sharing that with us when you get in touch with us.

Now, I want to remind you about an event that we have coming up about three and a half weeks from now. On April 24th, on a Saturday, it's the 2021 Blended and Blessed event hosted by Ron Deal. It's for couples who are in blended marriages, blended families, or maybe you know somebody who is. Maybe you have a ministry at your church to blended couples. You have a heart for helping blended couples. This event is a one-day online event to talk about how we can help strengthen the marriages and families of blended couples in our world. There's more information about this one-day livestream event. It's taking place again on Saturday, April 24th, and you can go to our website, familylifetoday.com to find out more.

If you're in a blended family or know someone who is, pass this information along to them. Plan to join us on the 24th for the one-day Blended and Blessed event. And be sure to be with us again tomorrow when we're going to talk about the outer rings of marriage, about the phase we should all be aspiring to, the stage of marriage where we are prospering and where we are mentoring others. We're going to hear more tomorrow from Jackie and Stefana Bledsoe. Hope you can be with us as well. Thanks today to our engineer, Keith Lynch, got some extra help from Bruce Goff again today, and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapeen. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.