Hey there, David Robbins, President of Family Life, and I wish you could have been with us earlier this morning as we joined our staff in a staff meeting and had Dennis and Barbara Rainey sharing their heart and remembering four decades of God's faithfulness to the ministry of family life and to Him fulfilling His mission amongst marriages and families all over the world. We had a blast recounting different stories of how God has shown up and been faithful to this ministry and the mission that we've had for decades of effectively developing godly families who changed the world one home at a time. I'm so grateful how you continue to be engaged in this mission, and it sure is fun to get to hear from familiar voices as they not only reflect on the past, but also invite us into their own journey currently. Enjoy hearing today from Barbara Rainey. I just was this numb person for months and months and months. I was so perplexed and confused about God because the God I thought I knew wouldn't have done that.
The God I thought I knew would have prevented that because I was His child, and I was loyal to Him, and I was serving Him. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are David and Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com.
This is Family Life Today. Well, it's not every day you get to introduce a mentor on Family Life Today, but I'm going to let you introduce Barbara. I'm really excited for our guests because Barbara Rainey is with us today, and I know many of you love her like we love her and Barbara. And Dennis, we're the first people that shaped us spiritually in terms of, oh, this is what it looks like to have Jesus at the center of your marriage and family.
We had never seen it before. You guys have been mentors to us, even from a distance. We've watched you, we've learned from you, and so it's an incredible honor to have you back with us today. Well, it's so fun to be here. It's so fun to see you two across the table. It's fun to be a part of what God has given you to do after what we have done.
I mean, we've watched from a distance and have marveled and just enjoyed watching what's happening. But to be here with you is very, very different than watching from a distance, so it's a real treat. I feel like my sister's here with me.
It's really fun. I know, you are. We can be sisters. We can be. Yeah, in case anybody's wondering, this is the former president and founder of Family Life. I mean, I know that most listeners, but here's the good thing, there's new listeners. There are.
And they're like, I know the name, but I'm not sure who. Some of you have, maybe you've bought some decorating, beautiful decorations for your home from Ever Thine Home, which Barbara was your creation. Yeah, yeah, that was a really great season the Lord gave me. I mean, our Christmas trees and our holidays were filled with things that you've created. Well, you tell what that did and does. Well, my vision for that was to make Jesus the centerpiece of Christmas instead of Santa Clauses and snowmen and all those things that are fun and they're happy for kids, but that's not the real meaning of Christmas.
And so that's where we started and we had so much fun producing ornaments and all kinds of different things for Christmas and then we expanded to Easter and we're still doing some things for Easter because Easter is a very under-celebrated holiday and it could be a lot more and should be a lot more. Tell everyone what you're doing now because your life has not slowed down, if anything. Maybe it's accelerated. In some ways it has accelerated, but in different ways. It's always been busy.
It's always been full. I can't wait to hear what you're going to say because I read your blog. You read my blog?
Yes. It's fantastic. Oh, thank you. And you're really such a great writer.
And I turned it over and she wrote it. I mean, it's like every week there's multiple and you're in seminary and you're learning and you're sharing what you're learning. I mean, it's growing all of us. Well, it's been a really good season.
It's been a hard season, which I think we can talk about later, but it's been a good season, too, because I don't know, I just feel like I'm doing more of what God made me to do. I knew that when I was raising kids. I knew that that was where I was supposed to be. But, you know, I think all of us moms have this sense that there's more to me than even I'm aware of when you're doing diapers and cooking three meals a day and doing laundry all the time, and that's all you do. And we asked the question, who am I? I mean, is this really all there is to me? Yet we know in two really there's more. But we have this idea because we think this is our whole life. Will I ever do anything? It feels like it's going to last forever.
Exactly. And I remember thinking that. Will I ever do any of these things and these passions that are still in here? The we husbands are besides you trying to tell you you're great and it felt like you didn't hear it. Because you were in the mire.
I didn't either. I didn't because I thought that can't be true because I'm just so sinking every day and failing in a bazillion ways. But anyway, I'm in a season where that's behind and I can cheer on my girls, including daughter-in-law girls, and what they're doing. But I just have the space in my life to do other things. So I am in seminary, as you mentioned, and really enjoying that. It's stretching me in ways I never expected.
Primarily the technology side is the hard part. But I'm enjoying it and I'm learning a lot and I am writing a lot and finding that that's really been more fun than I expected. I kind of started writing because I had to. I had to write things at Family Life. I had to write things for different reasons. But I'm writing now because I want to and because I do enjoy it and I like it. And it's resonating with so many of us. Well, thank you very much. And even as we were thinking through, like, what should we talk about today?
This topic is something that was at the forefront of your mind, this topic of being disappointed with God. Yeah, yeah. Why? I hope it becomes a book. Yeah, I bet it will.
Well, thank you. I bet it will become a book. Well, I hope so. I want it to become a book, even if it never sees the light of day for other people, because it's just going to be a good process for me.
And I want it for my kids and my grandkids, but I hope you're right. Yeah. You know, it's been such an interesting journey because disappointment, I think, well, I know disappointment is true in every human being's life. We're disappointed by friends and people and jobs and our institutions fail us. Marriage.
Marriage, on and on and on. It's everywhere. And it's so much a part of our lives that we sometimes don't even see it and we're not aware of it. And we think this should be wrong.
This is wrong. It shouldn't be like this. But disappointment's a part of our lives always. And when you add being a believer onto that, then you have a different expectation. And many of us have an expectation of God.
And I had this and nobody taught me this. I just came to this conclusion on my own that because I surrendered my life to Jesus and because I was trying to live for Him and because I wanted to please Him and because I was in full-time missionary work. All of these things, I made these assumptions that my life would be easier. That we would be exempt maybe?
I didn't think it would be pain-proof entirely, but I did think that I was going to get a lighter dose. But the disappointments just kept coming and the hard things just kept coming. And they didn't come constantly. There are seasons. Most of us have seasons of hardship and then God gives us a reprieve and things are good for a while and then something else. But sometimes the season is long and sometimes it's unending and we all know people who are dealing with things on a daily basis.
And they're hard things and we don't understand why. I remember when I came to Christ, it was my going into my junior year in college. It was going to be my third year to play football and I just finished my sophomore season. I don't want to talk about me, but it was the best season I had.
Pre-season All-American pick. So going into the season, I'm like, and I just get my life to Christ. And I'm like, I had this success and I was empty. So I find Jesus and I'm literally sharing Christ on campus.
I get involved in Athletes in Action. And seven weeks into the season, tear up my knee to the point where I can't straighten it to this day. And I literally remember laying in Ball Memorial Hospital and screaming at the ceiling like, this is not what I thought I would get with you.
I thought it would be even better. What is going on? It was that disappointment that we all experience. Last night and this morning, I talked to my brother who has just recovered from cancer, prostate cancer. And just two weeks ago, he went to the doctor and he had this sore on the end of his toe. And they took his toenail off and they found melanoma. Talking to him this morning, he's entering into surgery today. Right now.
While we're doing this, he's going to lose probably his big toe. But all he did yesterday, he kept saying, why me, God? Haven't I been through enough? Why am I going through more?
How much can I take? And I think all of us ask those questions. Yes, we do. We all ask those questions. And at the heart of it is, what are you doing, God?
Which is the blame side. And God can take that though. That's the thing that I've discovered in the scriptures is that God, he can take that. And he knows that we feel that way. And he wants us to say that to him. But he wants us to go past that.
Go ahead and vent it all and express it all. But he wants to take us past that and say like he said to Job. And he began to speak to Job. I mean, how long? Nobody knows. But think about how long Job suffered. It could have been months.
I mean, who knows? It was just, I'm sure he thought it was going to last forever. But in the end, Job saw God. And when he saw God, everything was okay. It hadn't gone away. It didn't minimize his suffering.
But he was okay. And I think God wants to do that with us. He wants to take us through our disappointment, through our blaming of him and show us himself. And that actually happened in one of the stories in the Gospels where, and you may know this story, where the disciples got in the boat and they were going across the sea, which they did multiple times. And Jesus got in the boat with them and he got his blanket or his shawl or his coat, whatever, wrapped himself up in it and went to sleep in the front of the boat. He was tired.
We forget he was human. He was tired. He needed to sleep.
It had been an exhausting day. And the disciples start rowing and they get out across and the storm comes and the waves blow and the boat's filling up with water. And they're doing their best to keep the ship afloat and to stay on top and probably not bother the master who's sleeping. And so they try and they row and they work and they work. And these are seasoned fishermen.
Yeah, sailors. And they knew what they were doing. So at first, you know, it just was, we got this. And then after hours, they realized we don't have this and we're sinking.
And so they finally wake him up. And the first words out of their mouth were, do you not care that we are perishing? Yeah. It's interesting they said that, isn't it?
Yes. And I love that story because what they said to Jesus' face in the flesh, they're staring at the Savior and they still sent it to him. It's what we feel in our hearts. It's what we say in our hearts if we're honest with ourselves. Take us back into your journey. Because if you write about this, you have felt it. We've all felt it, but you're writing about it because you're passionate about it. Where do you feel like it started for you?
It started ages ago. Although I didn't really see, early on, I was like the one that I mentioned earlier who didn't express disappointment to God because I thought that was wrong. I thought that was demonstrating that I didn't believe.
So I didn't say that. But when I was 28 years old, I had a heart episode we discovered after this heart episode that I had a congenital heart defect that I was born with that I had no idea even existed in my body until one day my heart started racing at 300 beats a minute. And it raced for that pace, 300 beats a minute, for eight hours. And I'm laying in an intensive care unit.
Dentists could only come in once every hour for five minutes. And we have two kids, and I'm laying there thinking that I'm going to die. And he's in the waiting room thinking I'm going to die. I'm wondering, what is happening to me? What is happening, God? And yet I didn't ever voice, you don't care about me, God.
Or I didn't voice, why are you doing this to me? I just was so shocked and bewildered and perplexed because I did not understand what God was doing. Did you talk to him? I'm sure I did, but I think I was in such shock that I really didn't know what to say. And God graciously touched it, and I assume he touched it, because there's no other explanation for why it went back to normal. But it did go back to normal, and I was fine physically, but I was not fine as a person. I was on autopilot for the next year and a half or so. I was afraid all the time. I was suffering, I'm sure, from PTSD, which nobody knew what that was at the time.
But I look back on it, and I'm thinking, yeah, that's what I had, because I just was this numb person for months and months and months. I was so perplexed and confused about God, because the God I thought I knew wouldn't have done that. The God I thought I knew would have prevented that, because I was his child, and I was loyal to him, and I was serving him. And he didn't prevent those things, so I was very confused and very perplexed.
But I remember at the end of the day, or at the end of the season, whichever it was, I remember thinking kind of like what Peter said when he said, But Lord, who do we go to for you alone to have the words of eternal life? At the end of the day, I just said, Okay, I don't get this. It makes no sense. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know why you're doing what you're doing. I don't know what this has to do with my life, but I trust you.
That was kind of my bottom line. That took you a year to get there? I don't remember exactly how long, and maybe I was kind of there all the time, but I remember finally coming to that place at some point. I mean, in some ways, you're feeling like he's asleep in the boat. Well, sure. Look what's going on in my life, and you're not even... How many times have we all felt like he's asleep in the boat? Like, do you see what's happening? Yes, and we know he's all seeing, and we know he's present, and we know he's with us. And in control. And it feels for all the world like he's not around, like he's not there, like he's oblivious. But he's not. There's just this gap in our perception.
And I think it's okay, and I think he wants us to experience all that. I know your story and your background. Not only did you have that, that you had to have that fixed, but then Laura had it. And we got hers fixed when she was 15 or 16 or something. I mean, gratefully, there was an easy fix by the time it came around to her.
It took a while for us to find a solution for me. I mean, you've lost grandkids. Yeah, we've lost a granddaughter. We've gone through some little valleys. We've had a journey with a prodigal.
We've had a lot of stuff, way, way, way, way more than I ever dreamed when I was a baby Christian and thought the road ahead was covered with rose petals. So what happened to you to get to the place where you could express your disappointment? Because a lot of people maybe are listening like, can we?
Can we do that? Oh, I know there are people listening who are saying that. Because I've talked to them, and they feel that it's almost treasonous, in a sense, to say to God, I'm very disappointed in you.
Why did you do that? And it's real hard for people to do that. Interestingly, the answer to your question is, it's been recently. When we turned over the leadership of Family Life six years ago, I started journaling. I mean, I'd journaled off and on for years, so I've got some journals and they've got some entries in them.
But I was never a consistent journaler. But there were so many changes in our lives that happened, and the whole process was great. We loved David and Meg. Everything went well.
We're so proud of the Family Life team and what's happening here, and everything couldn't be better. But that doesn't mean it was easy for us. There were adjustments in our marriage, because Dennis was now home 24-7, and he never was. There were adjustments in all kinds of different areas in our lives.
And we just have had one thing after another for the last six years, lots of things. And so for me to be able to process, I started journaling about six months into that journey. And I have not stopped since then. I journal every day. And what it's become, more than anything, is it's become more me, the way I talk to God. Because for so much of my Christian journey, my prayers have been interrupted by kids, or interrupted by things, or start and stop.
It doesn't feel like a conversation. It feels like I'm reading a grocery list or rattling off, you know, blessing me as I run down the road going to whatever meeting or whatever. And since I've started journaling, it really feels like more of a conversation. And so every day I started explaining and expressing and trying to put into words what I was feeling and what I was experiencing and what we were dealing with and asking God, What are you doing in this? What do you want to reveal to us? What do you want me to see about myself, about you? And I think in the course of that, I became freer and more relaxed. And I started writing that I was disappointed and I was struggling.
And this is hard and I don't understand what you're doing and why are you doing this? Over the last six years, my conversation, even though it still feels very one-sided to me on my end, I know that He is in it and I know that He's listening and He's working through all of that. And I've just seen such a change in the way I, in my perception of God, I see a change in the, I don't know how to explain it, just in my relationship feels deeper, it feels stronger, feels more stable. More intimate.
More intimate because I'm being transparent with God. He knows it all anyway. I mean, how crazy of me to think that I can't tell Him the things that He already knows.
And yet you still feel like He loves you, even in the midst of you saying everything. Do you have anything that you've written that you could read to us? Oh, now you're digging into her journal.
I have to do that next time because I don't have it with me. Okay. Because you're such a good writer and I think you're so good at expressing what you're feeling. I think that's helpful for people to know.
It's very helpful. She said that too. Well, you know, some of us are verbal processors. I'm married to a verbal processor.
I am too. I'm married to one. She's sitting right here. Oh, okay. And you're married to one too? No, he's not.
No, she is. Okay. I keep it in. You keep it in. She lets it out.
I know what's going on in his life, but I don't know what he's feeling. But I know what she is because it's you. Well, Dennis is out and he's verbal processor and I'm not and I never have been. And so this has been really good for me because I'm processing on paper.
Maybe that's what I need to do. And that feels safer to me because I can say what I want to say and what I really feel deep down inside. And I know God's okay with that.
I don't know that my husband's okay with it always. Is your soul healthier because of it? Oh, for sure. I mean, if I'm listening and I'm like, man, I am struggling with disappointment for whatever reason.
Would you say this is one of the first necessary steps? You've got to figure a way to get it out, whether you're yelling at God in a lament or you're writing it? I think it's really healthy for us to talk to God. I mean, when you look at the Gospels, the disciples had conversations with him.
They were so honest and transparent with him because he was right there. And we forget that Jesus is right here and we can talk to him like they did. Because we know about prayer, we think our talking to God has to be a prayer. It has to be in a certain way. We have to say certain things. Eyes closed, head down.
All of the things. And I've been writing some things recently for the blog and I wrote in one recently, now I want you to talk to Jesus as if he's standing in front of you because when the disciples saw Jesus in that room on resurrection night, they did not get on their knees and close their eyes and pray to him. You're right. They talked to him. Yeah.
They talked about how they felt and they're disappointed. I mean, Thomas wasn't there then. But I mean, they talk to him because he's a person. And we forget Jesus is a person and he's with us. And so for me, writing in my journal is one way that I talk to him as a person because I know he's with me and he sees what I'm writing and he knows anyway.
And it's just been really, really healthy for me. Let me ask you this, Barbara, because we were interviewing a very well-known pastor and I was telling him about when my sister died at 45 years old and her four children were under her roof. I remember telling him, I told God, I'm so mad. I'm angry with you. I'm angry that you've allowed this to happen.
It just doesn't make sense. And what he said to me, he goes, you know you're in sin. Seriously, Ann? And I was taken back.
I bet you were taken back. Because he's my father. I would tell my earthly father, I'm mad.
I don't understand. Was David in sin when he wrote the Psalms where he's complaining? Well, it says in the Psalms, I pour out my complaint to God.
And I think we don't take that literally. And he intends for us to. He's our father.
He wants to hear it all. I think he does. I think he does too. I think there are a lot of examples in the Bible where it shows that. And I never see God reprimanding.
No, he doesn't. Even with Job. Explain what you've kind of discovered in Job. Because Job was like God. Chapter after chapter after chapter. He was telling him how he felt and what he was going through. And all he got was silence for chapter after chapter after chapter.
I mean, it was a long, long time. The great thing about Job is that we see, which Job didn't see, the front end where God gave permission. And that is such a comfort to me and to all of us that nothing enters our lives without God's permission because he does care for us. And he does monitor what comes into our lives, even though it doesn't feel like it, like with your sister.
I mean, that does not feel good at all. But God was in control of that. And he has a plan and he will bring her through and he will bring good out of it.
But back to the story of Job, though. He went a very long time before he heard anything at all from God. And when he heard from God, God turned the tables on him and started asking him questions. And you don't think he was asking in a reprimanding or mean kind of way?
Oh, I don't think so. Because I did when I was younger. Like, where were you?
I probably did when I was younger, too. But I think what God did is I think he pulled back the curtain for Job to say, okay, who am I and where were you? And I want you to see me for who I am. Because I think the message of the Bible is when we see him as he is for who he is, it answers all our questions. We see him as he is and we worship him and we love him.
And that's what happened to Job. He listened to this speech by God and he listened to all of this. And all of a sudden, I could just see him going, oh, I'm so sorry, Lord. Forgive me. I forgot how great you were.
I forgot how much you loved me. Because when we're in pain and when we're suffering, we're so into ourselves. And it's okay.
God made us that way. But we are so prone to forget. And so when we're in our pain, the challenge is to continue to look to God. So that's part of why the journaling has been so good for me.
Because when I'm in these seasons of disappointment or hard times, I just write it all out because it allows me to express what's in my heart. And I know he's listening and I know he cares. And I always, at the end, remind him that, but I will trust you. Which is interesting about the Psalms, speaking of the Psalms, that all of the Psalms end that way, except for I think there's only one. Yeah, there's this journey you follow. David and the other psalmist, they pour out their complaints, but they always end by saying, yet I will trust you. And I think as long as we end with I will trust you no matter what, God's perfectly fine with whatever we say. That was my prayer about my sister. I don't understand.
I'm so mad. I don't get it, but I know that you love her. That's right. I know that you love me, and I will trust you. So as we close, and I know you're looking at some scripture, Dave. No, I was just looking up a Psalm. When Job says, now I've heard you, I've seen you, I'm just trying to make sure I said it exactly the way he did. But he literally, at the end of that speech by God, he says, now I- I repent.
Yeah, because it's like I knew about, but now I see. And that's the hope that we all get to that point, because sometimes we don't get there. We're stuck. Well, and I think that's what God's trying to do is he wants us to see him.
Yeah. As the listener who's just in it right now, what would your encouragement or what would your step be for them? We'll hear that specific encouragement from Barbara Rainey here in just a second. But first, I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to David Ann Wilson with the co-founder of Family Life Today, Barbara Rainey herself, on Family Life Today. It's been such a treat to have her here with us today, and she'll be back again tomorrow. This weekend, we're reaching out to ask for your support in prayer for the upcoming Weekend to Remember event. Weekend to Remember is a marriage getaway designed to enrich and fortify marriages. And our next event is taking place in Scottsdale, Arizona, from Friday, which is tomorrow, all the way through Sunday. So with over 80 dates and locations available all over the nation, you have the flexibility to choose a venue that suits you best. You can go on a Weekend to Remember marriage getaway as well.
That's right. So for more details and to explore all the different locations that are available to you, head over to familylifetoday.com and check out today's show notes. As you've heard, Family Life has a lot to offer you for marriages and families, and one of the things that we offer in addition to Family Life Today is our podcast network of programs.
There are lots to choose from, including Married with Benefits. Our host is Brian Goins, and he's joined again by Harvard-trained researcher and author Shanti Feldhahn. This season, we're talking about the surprising secrets of highly happy marriages, the little things that make a big difference. You can subscribe now wherever you get your podcast or head over to our YouTube channel.
Just search for Family Life's Married with Benefits. Okay, here's that specific encouragement from Barbara Rainey. Well, I would encourage two things. One would be to be truthful with God, be honest with Him. Use a journal, use your computer, and type it out, whatever. Sometimes I type mine out because I have so much to say. But write your complaints to God. Write your disappointment.
Express what you're feeling to Him because He knows it anyway, and He is your Father who loves you, and He wants to hear you say it to Him because He's a good Daddy. But then secondly, get yourself in the Bible to read the Psalms. It's one of the things I've done every day for the last six years. I read one portion of the Psalms every day, one Psalm, sometimes three or four. But there's so much in the Psalms, so many words and phrases that are expressing what you're feeling. It's remarkable how many of the Psalms are writing exactly what we feel. And again, I think God gave those to us so that we can put words to what we're feeling, and the Psalms help us do that.
And because the Psalms always go back to trusting in God, so I would say journal and read the Psalms every day. Now tomorrow, Barbara Rainey is back to explore coping with disappointment and loss of identity through biblical insights on Mary and Martha's story. That's tomorrow. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of David Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
