This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. We're grateful for their partnership in helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. To learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. Yeah. You can tell them all day long the importance of repentance, but if you're saying, Hey, I'm sorry, I lost it on y'all, but y'all are being unhinged, and then you're blaming, like, what do you expect?
Your 10-year-old's gonna come back, hey, I'm sorry that I did that, but you were blah, blah, blah. Where we teach them to excuse their sin if we're excusing ours. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson. And I'm Ann Wilson.
You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is Family Life Today. We've got Abby Wedgworth back with us today. And you guys, if you didn't listen to yesterday's episode, go back and listen to it. Her book is called Help: I'm Ruining My Kids: A Gospel Guide for the Mom Who's Desperate for Change and Who Isn't.
Let's talk about it. As a husband and dad, how can we as men help our wives? The mother of our children, when they're struggling with the shame piece, the The anger piece, the overwhelm, I mean, all that. You know, we see it. And, you know, the tendency is to just downplay it and say, it's not that bad.
You got a good life. You're a good mom. That isn't what you need. Yeah. What do you need?
What's the best thing? What would you say to a husband or a dad? Say, here's what we want. Yeah. Here's what we need.
Well, I think if we are thinking about our identity as a sinner and the sufferer, your wife has practical. physical needs, you know, like um That's really a lot for someone's nervous system, all of that noise and chaos. And I talked to the friend the other day, and she was like, you know, it's just so nice to have him because the baby screaming just doesn't affect him at all. He can just take the baby and the baby's screaming, and he's fine, you know? And so, if you can let her take a walk, move her body, see a friend, think about the things that.
Filled her up before she was a mom. And if you can help her get access to some of those things, you think about her human needs. Can you help her get some more sleep? Can you help her get human connection or whatever? Like, is she feeding herself?
Can you get some of her favorite snacks and help them be handy? Or does she need to go to the grocery store? But she isn't because it's really hard to think about putting four people in the car and all the variables that come with mid-aisle meltdown. Like, I think look for ways to care for her physical needs and offer. It's hard to ask.
And I think the other piece is like, she really needs to hear the truth of the gospel. And as much as I just soar when I hear David name the things I'm doing well. or when he tells me I'm a good mom. Like the benediction that I really need to be reminded of. Is that I am God's daughter, with whom he's well pleased.
And that there's nothing I can do that the blood of Jesus doesn't cover. And to be told, like, I see God at work in you. I think I need to be pointed to those eternal realities that don't feel dependent on me. Why do you think that makes you your emotions rise up? I was just grateful for Jesus.
Like, we could never do enough good to outweigh the bad. And that, I think, I have spent so much time on that treadmill. Yeah, as a perfectionist, that's good. Yeah, I just feel really grateful for grace and. I think I'm reflecting too, just on like having a husband who knows and loves the gospel and what it has meant to me for him to.
Speak it over me and to Naebe. I see God at work in you. I see how. How he's changing you, or I saw how you responded with patience. And I mean, it is important to name the good.
I do think it's important to attribute it to God's enabling grace because what we don't want to do is inadvertently put more pressure on her to perform. And that's really it. You know, one of the things you said, just help. Help. Just help.
Jump in the fray.
So hard because I think, I mean, we've, and I know you've written a book about like speaking life to your husband and not booing him or whatever. But like when there's so much chaos, I think a mom's instinct is to reach for more control. And so you might feel like everything you're doing is wrong or you're, you know, she doesn't want your help, but you're right. I think you got to. Man, I've been like doing it.
I mean, even if you just showed up and said, I'm taking the kids, I'll see you in three hours. Oh, Dave used to do that once a month with our three sons. Yes, it was day out. Tell you. When I was alone in the house, which you never are, you fantasy.
Yes. Until they'd be gone for a few hours. And I'm like, what should I do with myself? You know, David started taking the boys. We had two services at church, and one of them was Sunday school, and then the next.
And I started staying home for Sunday school for a season while he took the boys. And I got an hour and a half in the house by myself. And he would joke with people that he would leave an ogre. And then I would walk into the church lobby, like miscongeniality. Because it just was so, it just so filled my cup to have a minute alone and I could get things done and nobody was in the way.
I didn't have to worry about hurting anyone's feelings. You know, like it just was a true break. And that can be so life-giving. One of our daughter-in-laws, I was asking her a question, something like, What's been good in your life lately? They have four kids, three sons and a daughter.
And she said, Well, This might sound crazy, but our son Austin, every single day, he'll bring her. This latte that he's made with this, he's a coffee guy, and he's made this like incredible coffee for her. And it looks beautiful. And she said, He just hands it to me. And she said, it's amazing.
That's so sweet. It's like, I mean, it sounds so simple. But the fact that he thought about her, that she's not going to have time to make anything for herself that's any good, except she's eating the crumbs and the crusts and the leftovers from breakfast, lunch. And so for him to come to her and hand it to her is like, it's so simple. Yeah.
But it's this incredible gift to her. This is like a prudent time, I think, to say that husbands are not omniscient.
So, like, if you're a woman listening to this, being like, Yeah, I would love if someone brought me a latte or something. Like, you can ask. Ask. And because sometimes it's really hard to know what to do. Yeah.
But I, or just like praising and thanking for the things that are working. When David makes the bed, it's like, I feel like I can do anything for, like, if I walk in, the bed's made and I don't have to make it. It's just such a gift. Tremendous. Dave is good at that.
Like, I remember one time, like, as a mom, you're just always cleaning up after everything. And people he started folding a trifold in our shower towels and he'd hang it up perfectly and then he'd fix mine. Or he'd make the bed or just he's like, he's clean and I like that too. Yeah. That means the world to us like we're teammates.
Yeah. So just as a husband, thinking this is the first I've heard this. How can I be a better moment for Dave? Dave.
Well, No, no, no, no. I'm just saying I like doing that and I want to help, but I never knew that you really noticed it that much. I notice all of it.
So that's that's good for guys to hear that. Yeah, you know, there's guys out there, yeah, just do it. Even if she never said anything, it doesn't matter. You're helping her out. Yeah, you're a teammate, you're a partner.
And sometimes I will whisper to David, hey, would you say? Say this so it'll be your voice because I get so tired of my two voice. And so I'm like, hey, it's time to call them for breakfast. Will you do it? And hey, boys, come to breakfast.
And they come. And like, I didn't have to yell. You know, like, I just get so tired. Yes, the hog call all day.
So it's nice. If there's something I can whisper to him, like, hey, it's about to be a transition, will you give the five-minute warning? It's just nice. Hey, let me just pause and say this. Our financial partners are the heartbeat of this ministry.
And when you join this monthly giving community, you're not just donating, you're building something eternal. And we'd be so honored to have you on the journey with us. We really would.
So here's the question: Will you join us today? I hope your answer is yes. And if it is, go to familylifetoday.com. You can click the donate button right there and become a part of the monthly partner program. Let's talk about fig leaves.
Ooh, fig leaves. Yeah. Let's talk about hiding. Yeah. Let's go in there.
Yeah. Well, you're referencing right after the fall, poor Adam and Eve. It's like so sad. It makes me teary to think about just this tragic scene of everything was blissful. They were naked and unashamed.
And then they eat the fruit and they're covering themselves with fig leaves. And God, of course, says, Who told you you were naked? You know, it's like they just, the glass is shattered and the shards are everywhere. It's just the worst. This is in reference to like we use fig leaves to cover ourselves.
And of course, God then provides a better covering for them before Adam and Eve, as they are leaving the garden, he provides them. Clothing with animal skins, which, of course, a death had to occur for that. The first blood was shed. Blood was shed. First sacrifice.
Yes, so that they could be clothed. And we, as believers, when we blow it, we should reach for that better covering that Jesus provides for us. We're covered by his blood.
Okay. And you know, Hebrews 9 talks about That sacrifices aren't needed anymore and they weren't effective because they couldn't cleanse our consciences. But the work of Christ can cleanse our conscience. That's a marked difference in the sacrificial system. We reach for fig leaves all the time instead of that, even though we have it.
And fig leaves for a mom might be what we were talking about about like, well, at least my good works outweigh my bad, or at least I'm better than her. You know, like there are moms who don't even feed their kids' breakfast or are giving them red dye and I'm all organic, whatever. You know, like we soothe ourselves with performance or comparison or, and we've got to run to Jesus instead. It's just so important.
So, it's important for us to be able to recognize when we are soothing ourselves with something that's not gospel, because it's not going to hold. You know, it does not keep us warm when we're chilled with The thoughts of what we've done wrong, but the gospel covers everything. I mean, how do moms hide? Mm. I think social media, it's just so fun to go into another world scrolling.
Yeah, and I mean, I was thinking in a different way. I was thinking, how do you cover? Oh. Like when you started, you're saying, I had I was yelling at my kids. Yeah.
Do moms hide that? Like, I'm not going to tell anybody that. I don't, I'm not it's like a secret, or do they feel like you? Like, I'm just going to tell.
Well, shame leads to isolation, right? Because we think if someone knew this. They wouldn't want to be my friend. Or if someone knew this, they wouldn't respect me. If someone knew this, they wouldn't love me.
That breeds isolation.
So I don't think we make the intentional choice of like, I'm going to cover this, or I'm not going to talk about this. But I think we are so convinced we're the only person for whom it's this hard. Where we see our kids behaving in a way that we think, I did this to them. Nobody else's kids. are becoming a rage monster in their room and piling all their clothes on their floor.
Nobody else's kids are slamming doors and breaking them. Nobody else's kids are fist fighting. We see what's happening in our homes or in our hearts or in our actions. And we think I'm the only one. And it feels too risky to share.
But sin grows in the darkness. And so it's so important for us to confess because when we don't name out loud. What's going on? Two things happen. One, we withhold from ourselves accountability.
of somebody saying, hey, how's that going? Which is so effective for change. I mean, you can just look at the fitness community and see the power of accounting. I love group fitness. I'm going to go.
They're going to ask where I was, you know? And it's the same way in motherhood. I have a friend who, our husbands are both elders in our church. We have a group text, actually. They're like five of us.
We call ourselves the not-so-elder elder wives because our husbands are these young guys. They have little kids at home and they have these late meetings. And so we're all like, prayer's up with these solo bedtimes Monday night, you know? But like, we will tell each other, like, hey, I blew it tonight, solo with the kids, I lost it. And then we will preach the gospel to each other and, or like, hey, I see you.
It's not okay. Jesus covered it. I love you. And there is so much power in that because when we are seen at our worst and still loved, It's the gospel. That's the gospel.
And that's the cure for shame. Yeah. And I will say, I feel like we're living in a time where people are way more vulnerable and willing to expose the truth of their sin, basically. I can remember, I went to a Bible study, women like, I need this so much. I'm so excited to be here.
We just had a little group of us, maybe five of us, standing talking. And I remember saying, How my son was holding an orange juice. I had an orange juice glass in my hand, and he wanted it. And he was pulling it out of my hand. And I was saying, Hun, don't pull it out.
Just wait a minute. And he was pulling and pulling. And I said, Do you want it?
So I let go. That orange juice just flung in his face. He's all wet and he's screaming. And I told this group of women that I'm like, Well, if you want it, well, that's going to be the consequence. They were horrified.
And I was so guilt-ridden by their faces. And I'm like, I can't share this stuff here. Oh, wow. Yeah. But what I realized was, I have to have somebody.
That I can expose my sin, or even my frustration, or maybe my tactics. Maybe it wasn't even sin, but somebody says, Oh, I understand how hard that is. Or I've done the same thing one time. There was so much like horror. And I'm thinking.
You guys have never done anything like that in your lives? Like, come on, somebody.
Somebody step up. It's good to show up and go first that way. I'm thinking surely someone else is stronger. Do you think most moms have those kind of people? Or do you think moms really don't?
I think, you know, if we're calling someone and being like, the kids were so horrible today, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or I yelled at them or whatever. And then, what you're getting back is, yeah, they're the worst. Like, that is not pushing you towards godliness. That's not what you need in the moment. It's not what you need.
But I think it's really hard to display the sort of vulnerability that invites that vulnerability. Even writing this book, there's a story that I tell. Oh, please tell me.
Sometimes I open my eyes at night, just like. It's gone to print. It's a story where like, you know, I just basically scream into the middle of the room. And the way you would scream into a pillow, but there's no pillow. Like, just, I felt so out of control.
And this was like, While I was writing the book.
So, like, it was like last week where I'm just like, ah, you know, and all the kids in the room. Oh, yeah, they were all three were there. Yep, they were there. And that, but like, I know why it happened. I know what was going on.
But I, you didn't kick a hole in the wall, though. I love you, Anne. I know you kicked a hole in the wall one time. You wallpapered it back over. But I think I called my sister and was just like, I can't believe I told that story, or I have so much insecurity about what people are going to think of me when they read this book.
And she said, The people who are going to read this book and think ill of you are not the people who need to read it. This whole thing is putting my money where my mouth is, being like, I'm going to go first. I'm going to let people know that you can be. An author, teacher, speaker, Bible. Teacher and still yell into the mill room with your kids.
And because what had happened for me in that moment in the context where I tell that story is really thinking I should be past this. You cannot believe. I just struggled that way. And I just told someone: writing this book has been so good for me. All this truth is in the forefront of my mind.
I can't remember the last time I yelled at my kids.
Well, now I can. It was five minutes ago, you know? And, but the thing is, it was: I want to be perfect. I want to get to that point where I don't need Jesus anymore. And will you ever be?
Never. Never. And that's why perfect parenting as a goal is an enemy to faithful parenting because all of us say that again. Perfect parenting as a goal is the enemy of faithful or faith-filled parenting because we cannot depend on God more when we are trying to need him less. That's deep.
Yeah. And that's really deep. That's what that moment is. And it's, that's why I say the exposure of our sin is a mercy. That's what this friend meant.
It's like anything that drives us back to the heart of God and helps us maintain that posture of dependence is a gift. When I hear kids, grown kids talk about their moms and be like, my mom was the best. My mom was a saint. I'm over here like, my kids will never be able to say this about me. You know, yes, they will.
Well, but what I want them to be able to say, Anne, is my mom. Was not perfect, but she was a fast repenter. That's so good. And because they can take that all the way to the gates of heaven. But because you're a fast repenter, What happens, and you probably prayed this too.
Oh, Jesus, let them please forget all the things that I did that might hurt them. Kind of your book. But also, like, What they remember is the repentance. Yeah. Because in our parenting book, we had our kids write at the end of the chapters.
And I was amazed like the grace that they gave me. Amazing. But also our repentance and them seeing us, that teaches our kids where to go in their repentance. They go to a good father who sees them, knows them, forgives them. And even beyond that, I mean, that is paramount, most important.
It's like repentance is the recipe for eternal life.
So let's give it to them. Right. Show them how to do it. And they don't need a perfect parent. They will never be perfect.
They need an example. They wouldn't need Jesus if we were perfect. Exactly. They have a perfect example. And he can't be a perfect example until he's their perfect savior.
So we just point, point all day long. But the other piece of this is repair is so valuable because it's a gift to their future marriages, their friendships, their relationships with imperfect church bodies for them to learn, hey, rupture can happen. And restoration can occur. And that actually builds resilience in children. It makes relationships stronger.
So be encouraged that, like, the very ways that you think you are ruining your kids are actually providing opportunities to really fortify them as people. But more is caught than taught. I will say, you can tell them all day long that importance of repentance. But if you're saying, hey, I'm sorry, I lost it on y'all, but y'all are being unhinged, or and then you're blaming, like, what do you expect? Your 10-year-old's going to come back, hey, I'm sorry that I did that, but you were blah, blah, blah.
Where we teach them to excuse their sin if we're excusing ours. But more is caught than taught. They will follow. Yeah, I do think if they did see a model, it was two sinners as parents. that walked through a lot of suffering.
And repented. Yeah. Ann is the best repenter ever. She Is so quick to say, I'm sorry. With more with them than with you, though.
Yeah, probably. But I mean, that was the model that was caught. Again, They're not perfect. We're not perfect, but they saw that. Yeah.
Because there was so much defeat. Yeah. Because we blew it all the time, but there's victory in Jesus. Did you blow it? Oh my goodness.
Are you kidding me? This is totally her. Probably you. Moms see their sin.
So quickly. Oh, I see David.
Well, she saw it with me as a host. But you're always harder on yourself. You were pretty hard on me, too. I guess you're harder. Yeah, but you're way more laid back and chill with the boys, where I was like tense all the time.
Let's get into a little bit of. Our wounds. Because you get into that in your new book, too. Yeah. We can think about.
What's going on in our present? We can think about our sin issues. We can think about our physical, bodily needs, and how all of that impacts parenting. But one of the things I really realized as I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me is that we are super formed by our past as we show up to the work of parenting. We can think about this in terms of wounds and gaps.
So, a wound is when something happens to you that shouldn't have happened. You go to a parent for compassion, you get screamed at. That creates a wound. A gap is a place that you needed care as a child that you didn't experience it.
So, you go for care to a parent, and they're not there. They're drunk, passed out on the couch, or you're a latchkey kid, or whatever. That's a good distinction, though. A gap in your care, wounds and gaps. And so, when we show up to parenting, our wounds and gaps show up with us.
Our past convinces us that we don't have choices. that we have to operate in this certain way that we've Learn to depend on to keep ourselves safe. And what's helpful about this is that, you know, sometimes as moms, I think we so identify as the villains that we forget that we are also victims of a fallen world. And even then, maybe somebody's ears just like perked up or they got defensive because we don't want to have a victim mentality, right? But we need to receive God's care.
for the wounds and gaps that we've experienced in our past, and here's why. Because we try to keep ourselves safe. To cover those parts, we developed coping mechanisms and God is our refuge. And strength. And if we are not depending on him, running to him as our refuge, then we will sin to get the things we need to keep ourselves safe.
We'll sin against our kids to get them.
So even the last part of that scripture An ever-present help in times of trouble. Yes. One thing that I would encourage women to do is to just like make a little tick with the year that you were born and draw a long line and then just kind of mark major events. In your life, or think about phrases that have really stuck in your head, things people have said to you when those things were said. Take a lay of the land of your past and a timeline.
Yeah. Just get curious. Like, I wonder how. This is showing up. And my parenting.
What that does is it just keeps you from. Operating in a knee-jerk way. And it helps you have some choices, even if you can't figure out the answer. Just to be curious helps you have the time to like punch in the alarm code before it's full-blown sirens.
Well, you two had a great day talking about how you ruin your kids as moms. This is so relatable for us as moms, the things we're feeling, but the truth of the gospel, how to change maybe some of the things we're doing. And we're going to have Abby back with us tomorrow for one more day. But let me tell you, you can get her book right now. Just go to familylifetoday.com, click on the link in the show notes to get her book, Help.
I'm Ruining My Kids. And by the way, subscribe to the podcast. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you like what we're doing. You need to share with others and keep it coming to your inbox every day.
Subscribe and You'll be on a journey with us. If you need more on this or any kind of parenting help, you can get more at familylife.com/slash parenting help. It's going to be a benefit to you because we all need some help. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a Crew Ministry, 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah.
