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Well let those sounds bring back some memories if you will. Maybe fumbling to get your locker open. Maybe you're scrambling to get to class or you're trying to find the right seat at the table during lunch. It's a tough season to go back to, oh, I don't know, seventh, eighth, ninth grade. There was so much that we experienced then.
And school for today's kids is really hard during this time. And everything is new and intimidating. And it just seems like it's on steroids for middle schoolers. Today's guests on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly are former teachers and authors, Sue Acuna and Cynthia Tobias. And they're going to equip you to understand and support your middle school child through all the pressures they're facing.
Yeah, yes. Yesterday we talked about the physical and emotional changes middle schoolers go through and some crucial conversations to have with them. It is a normal time to back up as a parent because you're trying to give them space. But I think middle schoolers, what we heard yesterday is to lean in. Make sure they feel listened to, heard, that you have good dialogue with them, that things are open and honest, and that you don't have all the answers, that you really need to hear your kids and respect them.
If you missed it last time, get the app, download it, listen in with us. There was so much good content last time. And, you know, here at Focus on the Family, we're here to help you through that journey. That's why we published this book, Middle School, The Inside Story. Here's the great part that Cynthia and Sue, the byline, which is what kids tell us but don't tell you.
They did a bunch of research. They're both school teachers. They went out, talked to students, where are they at? What are they feeling? What are they sensing?
And we're going to cover the other part of that today. Sue and Cynthia, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Good to have you again. Good to be here. Thank you.
Well, let's get rolling. I mean, I think we piqued the interest last time. I remember those middle school years and they were just so unique. Let me say it that way. Cynthia, what are some tips for parents who are trying to communicate with middle schoolers?
I've heard parents describe it like I'm from Earth and my middle schooler is from Mars. It's like we're talking a different language. We don't really connect. We don't communicate.
So how do we, as the adult, do a better job in creating a way for that to happen in a healthier direction? One of my favorite stories that they told us, and I think we were both a little bit surprised, but we said, you know, your parents worry that. That they don't know what's going on in your life, and they're not sure who your friends are, and you don't want to talk to them, you don't want to tell them what it is. And one honest middle schooler said, Well, if you really want the tip, he said. Volunteer to be the carpool driver.
And then don't say anything. Don't react, don't say anything, and pretty soon everybody forgets you're there. and you find out a whole lot of stuff, and don't react to it. And we found out that that really works.
Well, how can it not work? But, you know, some of the parents, let's face it, we all have temperaments. I I can just Envision a parent, mom or dad, who feels this burden. to correct, to Um teach. To admonish.
I mean, it's part of what we do, and you're telling me not to say a word? Cynthia, how do I do that? How do you catch yourself as the adult and frame? That emotional moment to say, okay, bite your tongue, bite your tongue, bite your tongue, especially if that's hard for you.
Well, sure, but Sue makes a good point and when she tells a Parents. Look, you're moving from Parent to manager, in some ways. You used to do all the telling. what you wear, where you go, but when you get into middle school, it really becomes more A management. You talk in the book about, you know, these moments of.
I don't know, reflection. But one is where you recommend a parent Respond appropriately if their child complains about the amount of homework they have. What child does not complain? I mean, I'm thinking that's every parent.
So when that child complains, I've got so much homework to do tonight. What's a good thing to say as the parent? Oh, I remember that feeling, which is empathy, right? And I just preach empathy. As opposed to what?
as opposed to well, you better get started. Yeah. You gonna do that before dinner? Yeah, or, right, you better do that before you go out there. That's how I get done until you better.
You don't have a choice if you want to get that grade. It's the same thing I want my husband to say if I come home and say, Do you have a lot of work tonight? I want him to say, Well, you better do it now. I want him to say, That's a great tonal quality to run it through. I want him to have some empathy and say, That's a bummer.
Yeah. Do you need a snack first? Can I get you something? Boy, a 13-year-old would appreciate that too. Yeah, one is far more encouraging, the other more directive, commanding, demanding, right?
And one communicates understanding. Yeah. Boy, that's good. And you're trying to model that so that that's how they'll pick up how to treat others.
Okay, Cynthia, here's the bomb question. What are the most common mistakes parents tend to make? in communicating with their middle schoolers. And you have a list. I got it in front of me.
Let me hit it, and you can respond. Interrupting, downplaying feelings, yelling, using always and never. Uh not really listening, belittling in front of others, being judgmental, solving their problems, being sarcastic. Let me get these. Check, check, check.
Okay, yep, I think I did all of those. I mean, I thought I was a pretty good parent, but this is convicting. And we've spent a lot of years making sure they're happy. And it's hard to give up that feeling of, I need to make you happy all the time. Yeah.
And they don't want that, they don't want you to solve their problems. They want you to understand what they're going through. And hopefully, a wise spouse, you're not saying, yeah, every time she does this, she breaks a glass. I mean, that's not the way we speak in marriage. They're very much responding like adults.
And I think that's where the tension comes with parents and middle schoolers, is they're still thinking of them as five-year-olds, and they're feeling very much like adults, middle schoolers are inside.
Well, and I think that's probably the biggest. Aha, of this whole program today and last time is just start, you have to start treating them. like adults, right? And it's time and that's the best, best outcome you could have. How can parents Sue, I'll aim this at you.
How can parents help erase the stress of kids who are nervous about the transition from elementary school to junior high? I mean, boys, let's put this in a boys' context and girls. The frightening thing going from sixth grade to seventh grade is. P E Because now you're getting dressed, you're putting on... Certain garments in PE, you're going out.
I mean, I remember one of my first experiences going from junior high to high school. And this guy, as an experiment of his, I'm standing behind him and Glenn was his name and he's a friend and he's a believer now. He wasn't then. Thank you, Glenn. But he was standing in front of me and he was a grade ahead of me and he was a swimmer.
He had muscles where I had no muscles. And he turned as he was talking to another guy and punched me right in the sternum and it cracked my sternum. And it was so out, like, why did you just do that? And he continues to talk to the guy going, see, he's a freshman. He hasn't filled out yet like we have.
We're more filled out. I was like just his hanging skeleton there. But that's the kind of thing you dread as a boy is now you're the object of a science experiment at PE class about how you're not as developed as the other guy. And I think it's good for dads to say, this is what I look like in sixth grade, but look what I look like in 10th grade. Lie low.
I mean, that's not bad advice, especially if you're a lower classman. Lie low, but it does get better. Or find even pictures of professional athletes. Here's what they look like at 13. Here's what they look like at 20.
Hang in there, it will get better. I think. That's a huge message for middle schoolers, especially junior high. Hang on. You're not always going to look like this, and this is just part of the growth process.
And some boys are going to be bigger.
Now, explain, like the girls, I'll let you explain that because there's a lot going on for them. Other girls are developing more quickly. It's obvious. And they're feeling like, am I ever going to get there? And, you know, just describe what girls are dealing with.
And I think the first thing always is, I remember that. I remember that feeling, looking around, your bodies aren't the same as everybody else. Wait it out, and even maybe, you know, it's not too young to talk about some kind of a simple, age-appropriate makeover. Let's talk about what good colors are for you, something that's really Innocuous as opposed to emphasizing your body shape or something. But what are colors that look good on you?
What are lengths that look good on you? Are you more comfortable in skirts or pants? But they're going to be constantly comparing themselves. To everybody else. How much of that are we demonstrating or illustrating for our kids?
You know, how much time do we spend in front of the mirror getting our makeup on? And how many comments for dogs? I wish I could lose 50 pounds. I would look so much better.
So watch what you say. Yeah, good idea. That's so true. Cynthia, we mentioned homework, but let's bring this back. I remember Trent and I, we had such, and Gene, Trent and I, such a battle because he was really bright.
He's finishing his master's in biochemistry. He wants to go on for a PhD in neuro research. But in high school, it's like I already get A's on the test. Why do I need to do the homework? And we would say, well, 50% of your grade.
is based on the homework being completed. I know, but I'm good with the C. And I know the concepts, and it's kind of boring to do the homework. We battled that all along. Then he got to college.
Knocked out of the park. I mean, he's up there at like a 3.95 all all the way through.
So like he he knew his Desires and knew what he needed to do, and it was hard to budge him. I would say we struggled all the way through to senior year.
Well, you know, the important question is what's the point? Right. But teachers They they don't They don't go along with that because they're a lot of times.
Well, the point is you have to get this and this and this and this in order to get your grades. That's very frustrating to a kid who says, Why should I have to do 25 practice problems when I already know I'm going to get an A on the test? And it's It's a true question, and it's a legitimate question. And um It there's no real good solid answer other than We need to change some things. I can remember working with King Schools once and A gal who was really, really sharp, fifth grade, sixth grade in that middle school area.
She already knew she was gonna go to Bryn Mawr and she was gonna do all these things. She was just sharp. And one day she was especially sharp in math. But one day she just told uh the teacher, I'm not gonna do the homework. I'm And he says, you can't get an A if you don't do the homework.
Right. I don't care. He said, It's going to ruin your whole grade point average. I don't care. I don't understand why I have to do this.
And so the teacher and I talked, and I said, Well, what if you asked her? What if you just tried and said How about you do as many? Answers as many questions on the homework as you think you need to do in order to prove that you're going to get an A on the test. And then if she gets a night, she promises to get a 95% or higher on the test or go back and do more of those problems. And he said, well, But they tried it.
And Sometimes she did 30 problems, and sometimes she did three. But he said she got an A. And it does show you need some. Insight into your child and their learning styles. And that's a whole nother book that you wrote: How Your Kids Learn.
Right. And, you know, that's so important as well.
Well, this is focused on the family with Jim Daly. And our guests today are Cynthia Tobias and Sue Acunha. And they've collaborated on a book that is essential if you have kids who are approaching the teen years, if they're preteens. Middle School, The Inside Story: What Kids Tell Us But Don't Tell You. Get a copy from us here at the ministry.
And when you're online doing that, be sure to take our free parenting assessment, which helps you understand where you're at in your parenting journey and maybe some things that you can work on. These and other resources are going to be linked in the show notes. Cynthia, let me ask you: some of the red flags we should be aware of when our Kids are going into junior high and their time in junior high. Because emotionally, intellectually, things can change because of the environmental pressure on a child. An extroverted child can become quite sullen and withdrawn if there's things going on that we don't even know.
So, what are some of those red flags we need to pay attention to? This is where I really learned a lot from Sue because I was teaching high school. I was used to dealing with high school kids who've kind of passed some of those marks. But, Sue has a really good handle of it and I learned a lot.
Well Sue fill it in. I think two things parents really learned about are depression and eating disorders.
So, things I watch for would be kids who withdraw more than usual. Kids want their own space, but if they're constantly alone and they won't answer your questions, what's going on? Nothing. I don't want to talk about it. That's a concern.
If it keeps happening, I mean they're maybe they're having a bad day, but if if this is going on for weeks and you can see their eating habits have changed, maybe they're not eating at all, then you know something's really wrong. One sure sign of uh an eating disorder is like wearing big, baggy clothes or taking ni little nibbly bites. You have to be you have to be aware. And for parents today, a lot of times that means coming off your phone and really taking a look at your kid and see what's going on. And being engaged.
Maybe not affirming how skinny they are. Or even commenting on it. Or even commenting. My daughter-in-law has taught me, make no comments about your weight or anybody else's weight. Just don't even make it a topic.
Wow, that's good. That's really different from how we grew up, huh? You know, one of the things that, again, with social media is new, and I'm not sure we as parents know how to. manage this well. And we're hearing more about it.
What put it and it puts a lot of fear into us as parents is kids that are taken into a friend group and then they're bullied and then even you know, where comments are made, you should just kill yourself. And a handful of kids have done it and it gets into the news, obviously. It's horrible. But how do you have that kind of a discussion with your daughter or your son about what can occur in that cyber world and the pain in it and the viciousness of it? I mean, we don't want to heap a bunch of anxiety under our children, but how do we manage that?
Odds are pretty good that they know someone who has already gone through this. And that would be a good, more neutral question to ask. Hey, do you know any of your friends who have been? Bullied online or who are really depressed about it, and then they can start talking about it, which gives you a chance to talk about what we should do if that ever happens to you. And like I said, it's hard to admit that you're being bullied, but even to come and say, I don't like what this person is saying.
But also, parents need to monitor phone use. This is one of the hardest things for parents: to not let them take their phone, their smartwatch, their iPad. Into the bedroom. without Some rules that some limitations. You wouldn't let a stranger show up at your door, say, I want to go talk to your daughter in her bedroom.
You wouldn't let that happen. But she can absolutely do that on her phone. Yeah. And one of the things about suicide, the discoveries I made, both as being a police officer, but then also with the kids. A lot of times at that age, they don't think it's actually permanent.
They think they're gonna kill themselves, and everybody will be sorry, and then they'll come back. And everything will be okay. Wow. And I was blown away by that. But there is that.
There is that mentality out there. Talk to them and establish that relationship, especially with Christ and with eternity. And, you know, they may just decide, well, I'll just. kill myself and they'll be sorry and Then I'll come back when I feel like it. Yeah, I mean, building up that plan and purpose.
This is a good place to mention our counseling department.
So, I mean, this is a very serious topic, but it is present, and we wanted to make sure we at least touch on that.
So, if you're struggling in any area of the parenting journey, especially around the middle school years, but any form or shape in your parenting, give us a call. We have free counselors. They'll talk with you for 30. to 60 minutes and give you some perspective. They may even refer to a counselor in your area that you could pick up the discussion with.
So, know that that's here. That's part of what donors fund at Focus on the Family. Take advantage of it to make sure that you have some perspective. Let me throw this question out here. Discipling your children.
Can look very different at different stages. I mean, you know, elementary school, you got the little book and you're trying to do things. What does middle school discipleship look like within the family? You you model it. This is where it's really important.
I know growing up, my sister and I, we had at supper time after supper, we always had. A devotional book? And the scripture when we prayed. My dad was adamant about that. And when we went through the even the real awkward time, that was an anchor and that That's really important.
The other thing that I found was interesting, Sue, Talked about, you know, when parents, the b the middle schoolers Pull away. And they don't want to have hugs and they don't want to have all that. Kids stuff. Kids stuff. She said, but they still do desperately want the touch and need the touch.
So you can sometimes sit on the couch and just let your. Let your leg sort of touch theirs. And nobody says anything, no big deal, but it's still a connection that says, I see you, I love you. I'm not going to bug you, but you're still really important to me. Yeah.
Speak to a minute kind of broadly to the elementary parenting, the middle school parenting, and the high school parenting. You guys, you know, you taught, I think, two of those. Cynthia, you with high school teaching, Sue with junior high.
So when you're, we've kind of touched on it, but really to be black and white for parents, maybe they have their kids in elementary school right now. What does that look like as they move through? Very concrete things like in junior high, your parenting needs to shift. You've touched on it, but here at the end, I want to make sure parents are grabbing it.
So that they understand. High school is yet another kind of distancing to allow them independence, making good decisions, et cetera.
So go for it, Sue. Yesterday, Cynthia mentioned that you want to become more of a manager.
So imagine you're training a new employee. Elementary school, you've got to tell them everything. They don't know anything. Middle school, junior, high, they're starting to get it. You can kind of check in with them, have some guidelines.
High school, you've got to let them try it on their own, but you're still there as their fail-safe if something goes wrong.
So you've got to slowly back away, like we said, work yourself out of a job. Give them some independence. Let them try it. Be there when it goes wrong. Be there to hold them together.
Again, this gives you structure in how to think about doing this.
So it's not just emotional. It's not flippant as the parent. Do it because I told you so. I mean, that's a terrible thing to say. In fact, one of the one of the biggest complaints was they interrupt me and they won't they get mad if I interrupt them or they're looking at their phone and they're talking to me and I'm starting to tell them something and they just interrupt me.
And that it's that modeling. The other thing I wanted to say, which is really obvious but really important. Middle schoolers, they need more sleep. They have to have sleep. And we start school at.
With the bus picking em up at six AM And it's difficult because the lack of sleep affects everything. And they're growing. I mean, that's why they need to sleep. The growth is going on. Yeah.
And, you know, Cynthia, you're mentioning modeling. This has come up a couple of times in the conversation. Just real quick, talk to the parent that thinks my job really is going to be awesome when I'm cool to my kids in middle school. I want to be the cool. I'm not going to be a kid versus the parent.
Yeah, I want to be the cool parent. Just again switch that. Do you think it's cool when your kids act like that? Is that what you really want them to be acting like? It doesn't make sense.
Okay. Yeah. So don't try to be cool. Be the adult in the room. Oh, they think you're a dork.
You're trying to be cool.
Well, and if you ask them, whose parent is cool? Oh, so-and-so's parent.
Well, what makes them cool? Then you know. And they'll say things like they know when not to use our language. They understand our language, but they know when not to use it. Or they don't try and dress like us, but they don't dress dorky.
Kids will tell you what you need to know to be cool. Let me ask you this: even though it might not seem like your junior higher wants to engage you, Barnett Research and others say that my parents' influence is what's most important to me. I mean, it seems like counterintuitive, right? Because they're so connected to friends and culture at that time that they're trying to. Kind of get through all that.
But again, the research is showing us that kids believe. The most important relationship in their life is their parents, still, even through high school. I mean, most of us are going, what? That doesn't make sense. But it shows you that core connection, doesn't it?
Yeah, I know we're both thinking the same thing here. Our point is, they will always need you, but they need you differently. They are differently. Differently. They don't need as much control.
They need more understanding. They still need guidance. They absolutely still need your comfort and reassurance. Yeah. I don't know about everybody watching and listening, but I tend to learn by my mistakes and by other people's mistakes.
I mean, I just observe that. And say, okay, I don't want to repeat that. If I can, keep from repeating that. You had a mom come up to you after a seminar, Cynthia. It fits this category for me because she was so frustrated with her rebellious teen daughter.
How did that conversation go, and what did you say? She was ultra-frustrated. She said, I just don't understand. My daughter doesn't do anything I say. And I've told her over and over again what she's supposed to do.
And she doesn't do it. She doesn't do what I tell her to. And I am the boss, and she won't respect me and she won't do it. She said, I've just about had it. Can you tell me?
she said and stopped. See that girl over there standing? I looked, and there's this Fo arms folded, sullen girl, she goes That's my daughter. Can you? Tell me how to make her love me again.
Hmm. Is there a point in no return? Hopefully not. But you can't make your kids love you again, you can't. You have to earn it and you have to.
Do a lot of the things we're talking about here, and especially. The the barking orders, the doing that, it doesn't work. You know, I I want to be mindful of that parent that may be going, Oh my goodness, that's me. That's what I've done. What can they do differently now after hearing this?
They feel that conviction, conviction's a good thing. What can they do sue differently now, tonight? Admit it. Admit it to your child. What does that sound like?
Play that out for me. I think maybe I've been a little bit too bossy in not giving you enough credit for what you're capable of doing.
So, if you want me to change one thing, just give me one thing, because I can't completely change myself. But what's one thing you would like me to do differently? And then wait. Parents have a tendency to want to answer their own questions.
So they'll say, What can I do differently? Do you want me to do this? Do you want me to do that? Ask the question and wait. And and at first they might say nothing.
No, I I really think there's something. Just wait. Silence is a huge. tool for building communication. Just wait.
You can listen for and make this agreement with your child to say: if I say something that's really off or, you know, just say, ouch. Yeah. Hang. Why I don't understand why you can't just do what I tell you to do. Ouch.
That's good. I I didn't me I didn't mean it. You know, I just less Let's do a do-over. Yeah. I like it.
Yeah. It's kind of a catch word to say: okay, this isn't going in a good way, it hurts. I like that. I like that. I'm going to use that even with my 20-somethings now.
This has been so good. And I want to encourage you that there's more. The book is full of material, things we weren't able to touch on. Excellent stuff. Also, we have the seven traits of effective parenting assessment that I'd love to have you take.
It's absolutely free. It takes probably about seven to ten minutes. It'll show you the things that you're doing well and some areas to improve in. There'll be some resources recommended that can help you in those weaker spots. But what a great assessment to be able to do and to be able to know what I need to strengthen my parenting skills in.
That's a good thing to do. And of course, picking up the book is another good thing to do. Middle school, the inside story, what kids tell us but don't tell you. And if you make a gift of any amount, we'll send you the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. You can do that monthly or a one-time gift.
Also, don't forget our Karen Christian counselors are here to help you. If you're hitting the wall and you've heard this, maybe you feel guilty and you don't. know what to do now, call our counseling team. They'll set up a time to get back with you and they'll walk you through some additional things you can do. In terms of supporting the ministry, last year alone we helped 80,000 parents through crisis.
Do you want to be part of that? Why don't we work on hitting $100,000 for next year?
So join us in this journey, helping parents to build a home that loves the Lord, they love each other. Won't we have a better culture if that's the case? I think the answer is yes. Yeah, donate monthly as you can or make a one-time gift of any amount. And we'll send the book by Cynthia and Sue called Middle School: The Inside Story: What Kids Tell Us But Don't Tell You.
And then, of course, the resources that Jim has mentioned, all available at our website. And we've got the link in the show notes. Cynthia and Sue, thanks again for being with us. This is so good. I wish I could turn the clock back and be in junior high as a parent again, but you know, you only get that one shot.
And this is really helpful. Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, coming up next time, I wonder if you're ready for storms in your marriage? Just the way that life works, even for believers, and sometimes I think especially for believers. The storm is gonna hit, and at that point, Will your marriage be part of the problem? are part of the solution, and that's why you want to prepare. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Chat GPT and AI can offer you ideas and attempt to give you answers, but it can't listen with compassion, pray with you, or guide you with wisdom shaped by faith. When life feels overwhelming, real human connection matters. At Focus on the Family, we believe in the power of professional help and biblical wisdom. That's why we offer a free confidential consultation with a caring Christian counselor to walk with you through life struggles.
Whether you're navigating challenges in marriage, parenting, anxiety, grief, or something else, our counselors are here to help. If you're hurting, don't wait. Hope is real and healing begins with a conversation. Request your free confidential consultation today. Call 1-800-AFAMILY.
That's 1-800-232-6459 or visit focusonthefamily.com. Slash get help. That's focusonthefamily.com slash get help.
