You know, I've realized I'm kind of picky when it comes to Bible translations. Yeah, you are, because you're the guy that underlines half the page and then argues with the footnotes. And I'm a good arguer. But, you know, I care about two things, faithfulness to the original text and just being able to read it without feeling like I'm reading a dictionary. Which is why we're grateful for the support of the Christian Standard Bible.
The CSB was created to be accurate and readable, helping people engage God's word with confidence and clarity. And it's sponsors like the CSB that help make this podcast possible. To learn more, visit csbible.com. Uh That's when this work and family tension started really coming. Into play more was okay.
Now she's home raising the kids, and my schedule's not slowing down. And I just remember walking. Into the door after a long couple weeks away. And Sarah said the words that every husband really wants to hear. Um, we need to talk.
Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is Family Life Today. Hey, you know what I'm excited about today?
That we're going to talk about true love. True love? Yeah. The kind that endures. You just surprised me.
Where'd that come from? I'm just saying, this is where we're going today. Who doesn't want to hear that? True love. But not just true love, like this romantic story.
This is like true love that goes the distance, that has the highs, the lows. Gets in the mud. Yeah. From a famous couple. Matt and Sarah Hammond are with us.
They just rolled their eyes. If you're watching it on YouTube and you saw that, if you're listening to audio, you want to go to YouTube. What's really funny is, you know, they are a famous couple because, you know, lead singer of Sanctus Real for what, 10 years? 20 years. 20 years.
A Dove Award winner. Yeah, here's what I was going to tell you. This is funny. She's not going to like this. We had John Cooper on from Skillet a couple years ago and said, says to him at the intro, and you won four Grammys, he goes.
No, I was nominated for I didn't win any of them. Thanks for bringing the nominations are very common. Matt has two nominations for that. Matt two nominations for Grammys for a Grammy? Yeah, that's big time.
No wins. But still, whoever won those Grammys, they didn't deserve it. Hey, let's do a game with them. All right, go for it.
Okay, we're going to do a couple skeleton with you. Oh, okay, Matt. Mike, I want you to swivel your chair and turn this way. Yeah, yeah.
So don't look at Sarah.
Okay, okay. But Sarah, you can look at us. You can't look in the window either, Matt. You can't see her. You might have to close your eyes.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so here we go. It's Matt. Describe in detail what Sarah is wearing today. Oh, she's wearing dark blue jeans with a black shirt. A gray blazer.
It's like I mean it's gray. It's got like speckled with white and and black in it, but it's grayish. And she's wearing a necklace with two little rings on it. And earrings that complement them.
Okay, let me go a little further. True or false? Is she currently wearing gold hoop earrings? I do believe so, yes. True or false?
Her nail polish is Does she have any nail polish? Yes, she does. It would be like a kind of a cream color. Like, I'm color deficient, actually. I have a thing with my eyes because I can't see colour the same way.
And true or false, she is wearing nude lipstick. By the way, I wouldn't know that the color she is wearing lipstick. I wouldn't be able to tell you what color it was. This is unbelievable. Can we?
Okay, you can turn back now. I'm a guitarist, you guys. I was gonna say, he's an artist. I am like, I'm the guy in the relationship. I am blown away by this.
Hey, Sarah, close your eyes. What's Matt wearing? I'm like, I'm not attention to detail. He's attention to detail. He's creative.
He's wearing a cream shirt. In a black everywhere else. Yeah. Same thing I wear every day. It is true.
That's impressive.
So, I don't even know what Ann's wearing right now. I'm really. I mean, I don't think I could answer that question. Like, if you knew every part of it, it's a blessing and a curse. I'm kind of like a little OCD.
That's incredible.
Okay, Sarah. Do you feel like then that Matt sees you? Not only what you're wearing outside, I don't know if I've thought about it from like a positive angle, meaning like the OCD kind of he sees every little crumb on the counter. Oh, you do, yeah. Like, so he's attention to all the details, which can which overwhelm his senses, which then, you know what I mean?
Which I've learned to. But you're right, it is a compliment that he would know what I'm wearing. And yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, but it sometimes got to bug you. I do get bothered.
It's confession time now. Yeah, totally.
Okay, tell us: here's the next question: your latest fight. You have a good one? Oh, I'll let him speak to it.
Okay, okay. All right. What's the gracious way to say this? Was it recent?
Well, yeah, we had a fight this morning before we came. Pretty mad. We were parked outside in the other neighborhood chatting about. Trying to finish the conversation. How are we going to wrap this up?
How are we going to land the plane before we go over here? And this has happened every single time we've had to do anything together marriage-related. We always have a fight before it happens. Every time. No joke.
We'll be going, you know, just coasting. I'm thinking, man, things are just so great this season. We haven't had a fight in X amount of time. And then it's like, without fail, man, we're getting ready to go do something like this. Why do you think?
Well, I know what I think. I think we have two different perspectives of what we're talking about. That's hard. What's harder? Sarah, what do you think?
What are you in my opinion? We're talking about love stories here. You guys have a great one.
Okay, okay. So, this is a part of every love story. Is this part of it? And we do fight through, we repair.
So, even though in this moment, we haven't fully repaired. And so, you want to keep going right in the house, Leo? My opinion is: Matt has a very highly stressful life where a lot of people are watching him. And that, for somebody who's OCD and anxious, that can. make your wick short and you feel Overwhelmed.
Yeah, exactly. I think his disposition, whether he knows it or not, comes out, and I start to feel scared. And so then I start to react out of that. And so. I mean, I could go further, but stop there.
Yeah. Okay. You're being selfish. What?
Well, I started last night. Yeah, I started last night. You know, like, obviously, I booked Sarah's flights and I checked her in and I got all the hotel ready, checked into the hotel. I bought her clothes yesterday for options and like put them on the bed for her in case she wanted.
Well, no, like I went, I went and I picked up. I got every whole hotel room set. I put some snacks on top of her clothes that I knew she liked. I saved my graham crackers from the southwest flights that when she walked in the hotel room, she'd feel loved.
Okay. So I had this plan that I was going to like take her back to the hotel, which was like five minutes away, and then we would decide if we wanted to go eat somewhere. Yeah. Right as I got the car before I picked her up, I couldn't get the car plate to work on the screen.
So I had to hold the map in my hand. And there was like not really many restaurants around. And I was trying to text her on the plan about, hey, are you hungry? Where do you want to go? But her Wi-Fi wasn't working.
So I had no idea.
So I pick her up and I'm driving with one hand and I've got the map already set in the other hand.
So, both my hand and like the highway, all the traffic, people are zipping around me. This is Orlando. She goes, If you're hungry, I don't want to go back to the hotel. Let's just go straight there. I said, But I don't know where to go because I plan that we just run back to the hotel, make a decision there.
She's like, Well, that's silly. I don't want to go back to the hotel. I'm like, But I have my map in my hand, and it's four minutes away. And I'm finding other places. Like, let's not take the time.
It's 8:30. I don't want to eat super late. Let's just go. We don't need to put the suitcases back. Let's just go.
So then one is a planner and one is a planner and one is spontaneous. Yes. Yeah. And mind you, I had just been at home tending to all our children, getting them all set. We both have all this super big stress.
And I'm like, I'm free. Let's not stress. Let's just bypass the hotel. Let's go eat so we can get back faster. We just had different ideas.
Yeah. So I was frustrated because I'm like, okay, can we just get to the hotel and decide? It's just like my brain was like on that path. Yeah, it's you start eating. This is what I'm doing.
I was there. And she was just like, well, let's find somewhere else. I'm just like, I don't know how to do that. I missed my. The exit, I veered off the wrong way.
All the way to downtown Disney. All the way to downtown Disney at like nine. Oh, no. Oh, man.
Well, that would have been a good place to eat. He hadn't eaten all day and he was starving. I do think that probably I thought I was being calm, but it probably wasn't because I hadn't eaten anything.
So she probably thought she was being calm when she said, I don't want to go to the hotel. But to me, it came across as like so, I don't want to go to the hotel. Like, that's not an option. And I'm like, I just don't know what to do right now. I think I felt helpless in a way.
Does that make sense? I felt helpless and I was hungry.
So there you go. And then it came to, we were fine. Why are you fighting this morning, though? Same kind of thing. Same thing.
I think he was going to be. She wanted to sit down for a while. And I was like, well, can we just finish getting ready and then go sit and have some coffee? She's like, I don't want to have coffee. It's so funny when we have two girls and rest.
She's an artist. And so his feelings are hurt and he needed some repairs. And I'm just like, let's just be happy and just go. And so, you know, let's just get ready. And be happy.
There's two repair. Yeah, so but this is so common in North. The part that he lays out the clothes and all that stuff, that's pretty sweet. Like, that's like you can just put every husband under the pile that I'm supposed to lay out her clothes. I can give you a list of all the things I do wrong, I'll tell you.
But we. Often get in little, these little tiffs right before we get up to speak. Often is the right word. Not as often anymore. Yeah.
But I perceive it as he gets super short and snappy because he's stressed. But I take it. It's usually right before we walk on stage. Right before. Right.
I don't know if you're like that as a singer, but I'm like that as a preacher. Yeah, maybe not.
Well, I think leading up to, like I said, we're not really together. When you guys are speaking together, like I'm usually speaking or singing on my own.
So we don't, I don't even have to deal with that. But yeah, the dynamic of coming into this, it was that. It was just like some of the nerves, some of like the just. Trying to stay connected. And it's also spiritual warfare.
I think that's it for sure. From the moment we scheduled this interview, it was sort of like it revved up a little bit. Did you hear that, listeners? That means this is going to be good. Yeah.
This is going to be good. It already's out there going, okay, thank God I'm not alone. I think, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And that is, that's the beauty of a love story. It's, it's the picture of God with his people. Yep. How long has this love story been going on? 24 years.
24 years. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, I didn't know it was that long. You guys look so young.
It'd be 25 next July.
So this book has been out a little bit. Yeah. But tell us about it. Let's just like tell us what the title is and what made you write this in about 2008. Sarah had been home.
For a little while with our kids, after because she toured us. I guess I should really back it up to when we started. I started the band Sanctus Real with my friends. You were 16. Yeah, we were 16 years old.
So we were, you know, we were an independent band for a while. Met Sarah when I was 19. By the time we were 21, we signed a record deal, and Sarah and I got married the same year in 2001. Wait, I need you to go back and tell us how you met her. Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah. That's how it is. That's right. It's like a glowing. Yeah.
So we were playing a music festival in Columbus, Ohio. We played early in the day. That night, Third Day was playing. I was sitting kind of up on the hill looking down at the stage. And I just saw her on the outskirts of the crowd down there, just dancing and laughing and smiling.
And she had overalls on and bare feet. She looked so carefree. It really was kind of like OCD saw carefree and thought this woman completes me. And that's been the love story. And I just thought she was beautiful.
You know, and I was too anxious to talk to her that night. Story of my life. And got up the next morning to lead worship at a community-wide worship service. I didn't know her parents and her grandmother's church were all part of this. Gathering, and they had invited her to come up as well to be with them.
And so I get up there on stage to lead worship, and I look out, and I see her there the next morning.
So after I sang, I went and I introduced myself to her. Pretty quickly fell in love. That's it. Sir, is it the same for you? Are you looking at him like.
I actually was hoping he was looking at me at that big festival. I was trying to kind of get in his line of sight because I was like, oh, he's so cute. And he knew my brother. And the next day, I did not know he was going to perform at that thing. And then he happened to be there.
And so I had hoped he would come up to me, and he did. That's a God thing. Yeah, it is. How much longer before you were married?
So, yeah, about almost two years. Yep, September of or August, September is kind of when we started dating in 1999. And where was your career at that time? How were you guys doing with Sanctus Real? Yeah, so we were kind of just at that time, we had artists like Audio Adrenaline, Toby Mac, all had labels, Goatee Records, Toby had, which actually, funny enough, I'm an artist on now, but he had looked at Sanctus Real.
The audio aid guys were trying to get us to sign with their record label, Flickr at the time. We ended up going with Sparrow Records, but it was all kind of culminating around that same time I met her that we were going to, you know, get our thing you always dream of, at least in those days.
Nowadays, a lot of kids want to be independent, you know, make get famous on their own through social media. But back then, it was the record label, getting a record deal. Sarah, what did you think? Like, you kind of had an idea of what your life could look like, maybe, with an artist. Yeah, I'm so carefree.
I didn't think much about it. You never did. And my dream was always to get married and have babies. And so it was like.
Okay, then I'll just support your dream because I don't have a particular passion that I need to go chase after. I'll be the support essentially. We were very young. We even look back, we're like, wow, we were young. I mean, that.
Almost too young, you know, but but we did it.
So you did it. And a lot of people think, you know, I got a record deal, you're making all this money, and it's just this glorious life of singing and being famous. It wasn't that at all. You know, poor for many, many years. Yeah, I write in the book, even at some of the seasons that people would have thought we'd have been making a lot of money.
I saw some pretty bold numbers in there. Yeah, once you pay all the expenses, especially for bands, it's a lot easier for solo artists because they own everything. They own all their own merchandise and all that. And all, you know, a lot of the royalties go to them. But when you're a band, you split everything four or five ways.
You're all paying, you know. It's it's just a lot.
So we were poor for a lot of years and and it was hard. Happy and just feeling fulfilled. And I mean, outside of our conflict, yes, absolutely. Were you traveling with Matt? Yeah, for the first five years I traveled until I got pregnant with Emmy year six.
And then I stayed. I was six months pregnant. We hadn't gotten our tour bus yet. We hadn't had a big song quite yet.
So I'm six months pregnant. In between the back row of a Ford van and the back door, bouncing around on a sleeping bag with him sleeping. And I'm like, I should probably get off the road. This is probably healthy for my baby. And so at six months, You know, I got off the road.
So, and then that was it. I I would come out on the tour bus. Once I got a tour bus, I could come out with the kids and So that was nice. Yeah. That's when the tension, I think, of just me trying to figure out how do I keep pursuing this dream while I'm away from home.
It was like we had that adventure together for, you know, the first four or five years. And then I just felt like, okay, that's that's when this work and family tension started really coming. Into play more was okay.
Now she's home raising the kids, and my schedule's not slowing down. And that really was the tension that. The song Lead Me came out of. You know, I remember coming home probably seven or eight years after we were on the road and probably about 2008. And we were kind of in that point where we were figuring out, like, okay, like, where are things going with this?
Like, things are still growing, but are they growing fast enough for us to keep pursuing this dream? And, and I just remember walking. into the door after a long couple of weeks away and Sarah said the words that every husband really wants to hear. Um, we need to talk. That's when I run, yeah, okay, yeah, I uh.
And we did. And In the cycle of conflict that we were in, It was really difficult for me, I think, in that moment to not feel defensive. And that's just like the nature of it, right? Like, you're like, well, oh, yeah, well, we need to talk.
Well, yeah, we do need to talk. I got some things to say, too. You know, that's how you feel initially. Let's hear the size, Sarah. What was going on with you?
How many kids did you have? Oh, yeah, I was going to say that. We were on baby number two.
So we had already had another child. Matt and I, we really like each other. Like, we enjoy, we're best friends. We're very emotionally connected. When we're good, we're great.
Our issue is conflict management. That's really always only been our issue: conflict management. That's not a big deal. Just conflict man. Yeah, no big deal.
So, outside of conflict, everything's perfect. I mean, I. We love each other, but I just felt like Being in a band, it's like it was Dictated everything. And so, if the guys needed him on the road for 30 days, our salary didn't change, but his schedule changed. And so, it wasn't like, okay, you're going to go out and bust, you know, do five more shows this month, and that is going to benefit us.
How? It didn't. It would just benefit a business. You know what I mean?
So it was really hard to let him go all the time. And then when he was home, I think he, we were, like I said, we were really young when we got married. And I, The more I reflect, I think we didn't leave in Cleave Properly, maybe in some ways. And I think he would come home maybe with some expectations, and I would also have expectations. And then they we were just disappointed every time he came home.
This Valentine's Day, what if you skipped the roses?
Okay, that's fine.
Well, maybe not. And you dove into conversations meant to draw you closer. The ones you were secretly too scared to have. Yeah, Marriage After Dark is Family Life's newest podcast where a real married couple talks openly about healthy, God-honoring intimacy. Yes, the stuff you never ask your pastor or your friends.
And for more, go to familylife.com/slash marriage after dark. because intimacy shouldn't stay in the dark. I'm thinking of our listeners who, like, their spouse has a job, and it's becoming overwhelming for either the husband or the wife. I mean, this is our marriage. I'm guessing a lot of marriages on the road, but I'm gone a lot, and she's really resentful.
And even when you're home, sometimes. You're not present. Yeah. And also, I don't know about you. She's talking about me now.
Yeah. I'm just saying, I'm just thinking about all of us with our spouses and expectations and the way that goes. And it's hard to know how to navigate that when you're disappointed. when you feel like, wait, you're not. Living out your end of the deal.
I was resentful. About his attitude when he would come home. And so it wasn't that he was gone. I was fine with him being gone. I had a mom and a dad, and his parents were around.
I had help. I didn't like his. Attitude when what's his attitude? Like your disposition, meaning like I didn't like that um you weren't fully present or you were um Frustrated, or you had anxiety, or you were carrying all maybe it was an attitude. Yeah, I'm sorry, maybe that's not the right word.
I mean, was he like coming home and his mind was still one of the main things she said to me when she wanted to talk that day? And by the way, I will say, as much as we were in that conflict in that moment, one of the miracles of this moment that the song came out of was that I think. God really helped. in that moment me too. Just be quiet and listen and actually hear what she was saying to me.
And I do believe that God also gave her the grace in that moment to say it in a way that was really grace, that was really her tone was full of grace. Let's hear what it sounded like. And when I say attitude, I mean his. Disposition. Like he came home with all the heavy weight of every person in his line who told him the saddest story they had.
You know, the weight of carrying a huge band and all of their family's salaries and insurance. And he's got to make art that will sell albums. I mean, he had so much weight and pressure on his back.
So I understand he had a ton. But when he was home, I think he needed to kind of. Escape probably mentally, totally, but then he would escape from us. Does that make sense? And so, and your expectations, your home engages, you're the us, yes, and you're the leader of our ship, not me.
I want you to take over now, you're in charge. You be the boss. Is that what you said? I mean, I've always been- I remember her saying it's like you're here, but you're not here. Thank you for providing for us.
Like, cause you know, we're paying our bills at that time, even though we didn't have time to money. It was getting better. And, but she's like, but I need you emotionally and spiritually to be present. Here and lead us in that way. I mean, in some ways, that's the longing of every wife's heart.
Yeah, I remember one time I walked in the door, and again, I'm not on the road like you, but I was very busy starting a church and it's growing. I remember our boys were little. I walked in the door. This is before cell phones. Think about that.
There was no distraction like a cell phone. It was just your mind was still not there. I walked in the door, and Austin, our youngest, yells, Daddy's home. And Ann's in the kitchen, he goes. Yeah, he's standing there, but he's not home yet.
Yeah, that type of vibe. Yeah. And of course, the kids are like, What do you mean? He's standing there. And I'm like, I'm hearing what she's saying.
Yeah. And she was right.
Well, go back. That probably wasn't going to be there for maybe the whole day. Yeah. That's exactly right. And it was constantly that.
It was constantly that. And that's really hard. As listeners, we all get it. And we, as both men and women, can slip into that. Yeah.
Well, what a great day with Matt and Sarah. I just love these guys. I love how different they are. I love Sarah's honesty and Matt's honesty. Yeah, and you know, the story we've been getting about their life is in Matt's book, Lead Me.
And you can get it at familylifetoday.com. Click on the show notes and go buy that book. I'm telling you what. It's everybody's story because that tension of going from good intentions to action. is a challenge for all of us, so I'd encourage you to get it.
We know life is full of challenges and families today need biblical truth more than ever. Isn't that true? That is true. And as a family life partner, your monthly gift helps bring the truth into homes every single day through podcasts, events, and resources.
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