If you wonder why you keep Lashing out at your kids or returning to that sin or dealing with. Pornography, you've got to understand these things are not random. They're deeply tied to brokenheartedness we've experienced. With these longings, Jesus wants to gently Set us free and heal us. I've had a longing for 40 years.
You know what it is? Anybody that knows you would know what this is. Go ahead and tell them what my longing is. I don't know if this is what you're talking about. Bruce and Jim in the studio.
What do you guys think it was? They're in the audio. I have not said anything to you guys about what I'm going to say. What do you think my longing is? Championship Ring.
Detroit Lions Super Bowl victory. Is that how long it been? I thought maybe like stone and the maybe not, but you kinda already got that. Got what?
Son in the NFL. Yeah, we had one of our kids in the middle. I also said something about music. I thought maybe like if it was music, it'd be. Oh, it'd be something with Paul McCartney.
If I could sit down with Paul McCartney. Jam with him on stage. He's the only guy I think I would get an autograph from. I could care less about autographs than I wouldn't get one from him. But, Ben, forget all that.
That was just a funny way to talk about longing.
Okay, with that later. Is it a desire? You know, is it the need or a desire?
Well, you, you're the guy. What's the longing? What's the longing then? Yep. What would you say?
His longing, what would be different than a longing or a desire and a need? A lot of times I use longing uh synonymous with need. Uh, and but I think there are, I like that, it's a need, not a want, it's a need, but it depends how you define a longing. I think what you're talking about is desire, and there can be good desires, there can be. Unhealthy desires.
They're Can be, well, I guess that's that's all there is, those two. But I talk, we talk about uh seven longings or seven relational needs. Tell our viewers and listeners. Like, what do you do? How is this a part of your ministry?
I'm the co-founder with Josh McDowell of a, now it's a nonprofit called Resolution Movement. And we re-solution people with biblically based trauma-informed answers to all kinds of hurts and struggles. Whether people are dealing with mental health or need healing in some aspect of their life or dealing with sexual brokenness, we create messages and resources mainly catered towards Gen Z. And so We do a lot of U-version plans, podcast episodes. We write books, small group things.
I go around and speak, and it's an amazing opportunity to. Leverage what I've learned in my healing journey, the things Josh McDowell learned in his healing journey, and to help other people not have to struggle and suffer without answers the way that we did for years. Do you think we all should be on a healing journey? Yes, I think it's discipleship. I think of Luke 2 to 52.
If I'm not mistaken, Jesus grew in wisdom, mental. uh stature physical and in favor with God. And people spiritual and favor with man, relational.
So I think there's a spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, relational aspect that all of us need to grow in, yet so often we just focus on the spiritual aspect, which is so important. We need biblical literacy or the Bible, but they're only getting just on the emotional or therapeutic side. You're saying there's a blend. Yes. Is it 50-50?
Is it 70-30? Yeah, I guess it depends on how you slice the pie. I mean, at some point, Some point everything is spiritual because we're made in God's image.
So the answer is yes. Yes. And I think too. As we're talking, Ben, so every listener And viewer. And viewer.
could benefit going on a healing journey. I mean, that's true for us. I'm thinking of even our kids who we feel like they grew up in a pretty. normal there wasn't time Tons of trauma. They grew up in a perfect family.
No, but they still have trauma and they still have hard things. And so I really think everybody, this is going to be a conversation everyone will benefit from. If there's something I think we underestimated, and I think a lot of couples do when we got married, is the amount of baggage and trauma we were bringing into that marriage. I'd love to hear that. And how it affects us in our relationships.
Yeah, and our perspective was. I'd love to hear what you have to say to this because as I was reading through Free to Thrive, hold your book up. I want people to see. that are watching on uh YouTube, free to thrive. You give it a little office moment.
Actually, I don't watch the I don't watch the office. What am I talking about here? There you go.
Well, the subtitle, How Your Hurts, Struggles, and Deepest Longings Can Lead to a Fulfilling Life. We, I think I knew, you know, two divorce, I mean, two alcohol parents, divorce, adultery, all going on before I was seven years old. We had a sibling die. Single mom and me, when I, and my little brother died within six. six months of the divorce.
This is back in the 60s. I was the only kid in my elementary school without a dad. It was very unusual then. Come to Christ in college. And as Anna and I get married, my perspective was 2 Corinthians 5:17.
The old is gone, the new has come.
So, all that stuff, my past, is in my past. I'm a new creature in Christ, the old is gone.
So I sort of, and I think Anne had the same thing. She has sexual abuse in her past. She's bringing that in. We both had this perspective. Yeah, that's part of our story, but it's past.
It's way back there. And now we're in Jesus and here we go. And we didn't realize it's coming. I mean, even on a neurological level, all of our experiences live in our brain and the pathways we develop, the ways of thinking and acting. Like we get this.
When somebody has a stroke and has to relearn how to move their arm or something like that. And so, why would we think it's any different when living outside the Garden of Eden, all the things we grow up with, the lies we believe, the trauma, the hurt, the abandonment that lives in our brain, and the pathways that are firing off, like those have to be rewired as well. Romans 12:2, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so, all of us have to go on that healing journey. And I think that's a core part of discipleship.
Interesting, you know, when you quote... Romans 12.2. Never had this thought before. This might be a bad thought. Who knows?
But verse one, do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, really, the matrix of this world. In some ways, the matrix of this world, of course, we always think of that like worldly mindset, culture. Could there be an aspect of that that the world's mindset is just bury your trauma? Mm-hmm. overcome it and walk in.
Rather than no, you need Jesus to renew your mind, which means you're going to have to step back into it a little bit to understand it and process it so that you can be free to heal from it. And you're the expert, I'm just throwing out laymen's ideas.
Something I talk about a lot is the ways of this world. You look around anything outside of God's design, it's trauma, it's fear, it's sin, it's even burying our brokenheartedness. Think about how often Jesus talked about brokenheartedness. Proverbs 4:23, guard your heart, everything you do flows from it. And so often, things have happened to our heart.
And we think that because Like y'all mentioned, you know, a lot of what we talk about is: I'm a new creation, yes, and amen. Yet. Things have happened to me, and my brain has been wired a certain way because of my life experiences. And Jesus wants to renew that. He can do that in an instant.
But so often, as we know, growth is a process over time with people and truth and renewing our mind, and sometimes good Christian therapy and all kinds of things. You know, before we continue, let me say this. At Family Life, we really believe strong families can change the world. And when you become a Family Life partner, you can make that happen. And I don't know if you realize this, but your monthly gift helps us equip marriages and families with biblical tools that they can count on.
And that's a pretty cool deal. And we also want to send you exclusive updates, behind-the-scenes access, and an invitation to our private partner community, which is also pretty cool.
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Alright, let's get back to the conversation. What do you think? Yeah. Have you ever run into the idea that if I Try to step back and process the pain, the hurt, the trauma. That's not spiritual.
It's more spiritual to just realize it's nailed to the cross with Jesus. I just move on. Have you ever had that thinking like? I shouldn't do that because it's done, it's over, I'm new in Christ. I shouldn't do that.
It's more spiritual to not do that rather than the actual spiritual thing is to process it. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of ways that we minimize and downplay. Our pain and other people's pain. And so a lot of times it can be a spiritual smoke screen. Oh, it's more spiritual to think about things that are true, noble, right, and pure.
Does that mean I'm always never supposed to think about something painful that happened in the past?
Well When Jesus encountered Martha and Mary, when the friend Lazarus died in John 11. He empathized with them, he mourned with them, he grieved with them. Ecclesiastes says there's a time for everything, and so there is a time for us to look back and process that pain and seem to make sense of it, make sense of our story with God and others rather than to try and bury it because we actually don't bury it, we don't leave it in the past. Yeah, if we try and leave it in the past, we're actually burying it alive and it's going to come back. It's going to crawl us.
Yeah, we don't leave our family of origin in the past. We carry it with us in our brains, in our body, neurologically. We bury it alive. And the thing that I still stuck on that you said was. This is discipleship.
When I think of discipleship, and you've been in crew, you've been on staff with crew, with Josh, we're all about spiritual. We call it discipleship, but in my head, I'm always like, Oh, yes, spiritual discipleship. You're saying, No. There's more to discipleship than just the spiritual aspect. Yep.
I've never really thought of that. Yeah, I made me think about Elijah, right? The prophet Elijah, when he had this mountaintop experience, saw God do so many things, and then he. No longer wants to live. He's independent.
And then what does God tell him to do? Not to pray a bunch, not to go to the temple. No, he says, you need a nap, and I'm going to provide for you good food, and you need to rest. You need this physical. Physical aspect of discipleship to care for your Mind in your body.
And that's how God. Shows up. And I think what one of the many themes that's being communicated is we are. holistic beings. We're not just spiritual.
Yeah. Well, walk us through your story. Yeah, I grew up surrounded by Christianity, going to church, met Jesus at a young age, really understood how to have a personal relationship with Him. And while that relationship with God was restored, you know, I believed. That Christ lived a perfect life for me, died for my sins, rose again.
I was all in.
Somehow, at an early age, God just graced me with having that relationship. That relationship was good, it was restored, but other relationships were broken, particularly in my family life. My dad was in ministry, and yet he was also an alcoholic, and he was emotionally and physically abusive. Name-calling, manipulation, bullying. Was that all a secret in your family?
And then my mom didn't intervene. And so here I have these two people that I'm supposed to be loved by, accepted by. discipled by and then I'm seeing my dad act one way in the home and then one way around other people. Uh that is a maddening experience for a child. And so, what I did with that at a young age is I shut down.
I thought I was a problem. Shame. There's something wrong with me. And I started. Developing different psychological symptoms, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts.
Obsessive-compulsive disorder. And trying to navigate that. You know, on my own. And you're still like, you've still given your life to Jesus. You're there spiritually.
Yeah. One of my therapists said Jesus was your greatest coping mechanism. Wow. Yeah. And so I'm so thankful that he was there when.
Other people weren't. Yeah. Um But what I did with that pain was unknowingly I was just struggling and coping and trying to survive. Fast forward to age 12, I get introduced to pornography and masturbation, quickly get addicted to that. Um food.
Started dealing with body image, addicted to food, binge purge cycle. over the course of time. Gained a hundred pounds. then lost the hundred pounds um and was just Coping so much, and what I you buried everything alive, yeah, yeah. And all the while, I'm crying out to God to free me.
Yeah. Um And trying to utilize these spiritual principles because I'm growing up, you know, in a missionary family. I'm growing up in the church, I'm talking to Jesus every day. I had. you know I was reading the Bible here and there but my I was You know, that whole thing about praying without ceasing, like that was survival for me.
You were death. Talking, yeah, talking to God. Every day. Um Did you feel so Hopeless? It seems like the only thing you had to hold on to was Jesus.
Yeah. Hopeless and And But like The reality of the scripture that eternity is written on our hearts like that. That was so real to me. at at a young age that like That even by the age of seven, I was sharing my faith. with With my friends and seeing them come to Christ.
And so. Um In a sense, like seeing them become free and you felt. Yeah, in some sense, I was saying, come follow Jesus, he'll heal you, he'll set you free, but he hasn't done that for me yet. I knew eternally he did. Yeah.
Um But in The brokenness before I entered into my healing journey. I was so stuck in those things, and the spiritual aspect of my life was so disconnected from. The relational aspect, the emotional, the mental. the the physical and uh And so it was it was a it was a long Long road of aloneness. Did you have a friend or anybody you could turn to?
Not really, not about this. And also, as a kid, a lot of this I share looking back as I've made sense of my story. In the moment I didn't. I couldn't put the pieces together. It was I'm bad.
I'm bad. This is who I am. I'm broken. This is just the card I was dealt. And there wasn't an understanding of the why, what was contributing to all of these things.
Ben who I'm I'm thinking like I think I was seven. The first time I thought Because sexual abuse had happened with different people. And I remember at one point at seven, after three different people, I thought, oh, it's me. I'm the one. It's my fault.
I'm broken. And I'm wondering how many people suffer in silence with that thought. Oh, it's me. And that shame piece can feel overwhelming. And I think as kids, we don't know what to do with it.
And it comes out in all different ways, but like, do you think there's a large percentage of people that just feel so stuck and so full of shame? They don't even know how to verbalize it. As a kid, you don't even, it's just a part of who you are. You don't know if because it's an outside, something has happened. You just think it's me.
You don't even know where to go. Is there a large percentage of people that are living that? The majority of people. You think? And I think it's been Satan's number one tactic of spiritual warfare since the Garden of Eden.
Get you to buy the lie of shame. that you're bad either because of what you have done or what has been done to you. you're not you're Um It's not like you've done bad. You know, guilt says, I have done bad. Shame says, I am bad.
Like, this is who I am. And then.
So, I think so many people are growing up believing that it's even in the church, right? God loves me, but I'm still bad. He kind of just tolerates me as opposed to no. The Bible starts in Genesis 1, not in Genesis 3 with the fall. That's good.
The truest thing about you is that you are made in God's image. You have so much value and worth. You are worth the cost of Jesus on the cross to God because he wanted a relationship with you. And I think sometimes we hear Um Sinner, like the language of that we're sinners rather than how much. I mean, if you look at the New Testament, 99% of the time Christians are called saints.
We still wrestle with sin, but our primary identity is beloved. And saints. Which takes us to the conversation we were having even before we started. of how you really took off On TikTok, share like what you said to us like what What happen that that just took off, that you got a bunch of followers. In 2022 I was I got on TikTok.
I was doing three videos a day, and I was sharing. My faith and how to have a personal relationship with Jesus. And I was looking at what. young people are struggling with. and things that I had struggled with.
And so I kept doing these videos on Jesus doesn't want you to fear tomorrow, Jesus doesn't want you to fear the Jesus doesn't want you to fear. Period, you know? And I would talk about how we can be consumed with fear, and we see this happen, and a shooting there, and then we're just. Growing up in a people are growing up in a climate of fear and it Wires your brain a certain way. Especially our kids and grandkids.
It's insane. And Talking about how you can trust Jesus and have a relationship with him. And he's not going to let anything, nothing happens unless he allows it to happen. Like he walks with you and he's there for you. I was doing like these.
10-second altar calls inviting people to place their faith in Christ and saying, if you prayed that prayer for the first time, say, I prayed that prayer in the comments. And over the course of six months to a year, There was over a hundred thousand people who commented that they prayed to give their life to Christ for the first time. And these are mostly Gen Z. Gen Z and Gen Alpha. I mean, there's like eight-year-olds on there who.
We're like, I'm only eight. Like, I'm not even supposed to be on this thing, but I'm trusting Jesus. Don't tell my mom. Yeah, yeah. It's like, I don't even know who you are.
Like, your photo is a meme. Like. But that show to me that's evidence of like, man. Kids are desperate. People are desperate.
Well, in a sense, I mean, you know this better than any of us. You were tapping into their longings. Yeah. The topics you were raising is tapping into these seven longings. I don't know.
Should we go to those or do we need to hear the rest of your story? Because I wonder what happened last time we looked at you. You didn't know. We can circle back at the end to the end. But yeah, on that topic of fear, one of the seven longings we talk about in the book Free to Thrive is the assurance of safety.
And it's one of the top two. Longings, I see so many people struggling with today. Really? The assurance of safety that's to be protected and provided for. emotionally, physically, and financially.
And do you think COVID just spun that out of it? Oh, yeah, wrecked it. Yeah. You know, full tornado on that thing. Yeah.
So much now. And it's, I think we were built for the concerns of a village rather than to be constantly looking at social media and seeing that happened there, that tragedy there, that tragedy there. And then, what it does in our minds is it causes us to blow out of proportions. The probability of that happening to us. Oh, especially if you're a kid.
I'm telling you, if you're listening as a parent, this is a conversation. We have got to have with our spouse, but our kids, like, this is the stuff our kids are feeling. And discipleship is talking about this stuff. Yeah, exactly. And so the assurance of safety That like causes this deep core belief that I'm secure.
Like, I'm secure. God's going to provide for me. My parents are providing for me. Um And yet so many people In our digitalized world, you can. Grew up feeling pretty secure and safe, like you've got food on the table, your parents are taking you to soccer practice.
Um Hopefully they're engaging. with you and helping draw out what's happening within you when you don't feel safe. And you have these experiences that get marked down in your brain that Hey. I'm okay. Like mom, dad, they're going to protect me.
Yet all that can be true and you can constantly be Hearing about these things on social media and seeing these things, and it can wire your brain. To develop a phobia or to develop a fear of. things things happening. haven't talked about this publicly very much, but in Uh twenty twenty twenty I Um So, the world shut down and whatnot. And I developed a series of.
Phobias. I had dealt with claustrophobia and fear of heights before, but. it got so bad to the point where even like leaving my house caused so much anxiety. And it was And then I did three years of intense therapy focus on this. It got to the point where I.
I wasn't flying on planes anymore. And here I am, a speaker, you know, with Josh McDonald Ministry, and I'm driving 14 hours to a speaking event. Are you kidding me? The therapist, I, I, I. Talked to the way he described it was: everybody's got a cup full of water, and that's your tolerance level, what you can tolerate.
And the moment It starts running over.
So that you can keep going, your mind puts that onto something else.
So You're loaded with stress. 2020. Um you know dealing with this dealing with this You're not slowing down.
So, here is something that your brain develops to try and keep you safe. Via a phobia where you can't fly. And like, thanks, brain, you know? It's like a coping mechanism.
Sounds like a brand. It's almost like a survival protective mechanism. to get you to slow down To also make life more manageable. And so my brain got wired that way where. Even the thought of flying again caused so much anxiety, but then what's wild is as we talked about Romans 12:2.
I went on this journey of. Um Exposure therapy and slowly exposing myself to things and starting out with like a 10-minute flight and a 20-minute flight, and then now I'm flying all over again, and God, God rewires our brain. And I think there's something to be said for. The Psalms and things that we see throughout scripture. I think of.
Psalm 23, where David is saying, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. In my opinion. He's using this visualization technique of: hey, I'm going into this place of fear. It may trigger fear in those old neurological pathways. Yet, God is with me.
I can do this. I'm not going to fear. And Applying that type of principle, going into these situations, overcoming my fears, is how God really healed me and brought about that assurance of safety. Um And A lot of the fear went away.
So God did heal you from that. It made me think of I was having an MRI done. To for a possible cancer diagnosis several years ago, but I mean, being in an MRI tube is not like comforting or relaxing. There's bang, bang, you know, it's terrible. But I remember that.
And because you can like. you can get super anxious in those. I took my mind like Jesus. I'm just going to walk with you because I thought of Psalm 23 and I pictured in my mind, and this is the beauty of the complexity of the brain. I'm going to picture heaven and what it would be like to walk those streets and to be with you, and then walked to that stream and the valley.
It's amazing how. that can take us to a place of peace. in the midst of absolute chaos. Yes. But I love that.
And I love that God healed you, but it took work because he could have done it because we're all like, can't he just do it overnight? Yes. He could do it in a minute. In a second. The amount of people that prayed for the neurons in my brain to rewire miraculously.
Um and I was praying every day, but he wanted to take me through a a process. I remember early on in that process going, God, would you heal me? And I Felt like he said to me I am. And it was in the process that he was. It just wasn't how I.
Because it's through this process that now you're helping other people, which makes sense. Yeah, and it's so interesting. You know, all seven of the longings. As a parent. I mean, obviously, it applies to us individually, but as a parent, you read it and you're like, oh my goodness, my kids.
Our experience in every one of these. I'm in many ways a person in their life that can help. Yep. You know, assure them, even the assurance of safety.
So that's one, you know? I get a few more. I mean, the first one, obviously. Oh, yeah, I need all of those. That's all of me.
Yeah, and one of the reasons. These are so important is because, in the research Josh McNow and I did, we found that if People experience these growing up, not perfectly because we live outside the Garden of Eden, but if you experience a lot of these consistently, 90% of the things you could struggle with aren't going to be there: anxiety, depression, porn addiction, body image, shame. Struggling to trust God, lies, lies you believe about God, because we know how our interactions with authority figures, parents, growing up, we copy and paste that onto God the Father, especially. And so that's what I love about these is because whether even if they weren't met, God created you to have them met, even now as an adult.
So it's not too late. You can heal and have these met.
Now, what about the kid who, well, I'm thinking of the parent who's thinking, I met these. We did a good job. My son, my daughter felt accepted, felt affirmed, felt acceptance of their feelings. going ahead of myself, but you know. And yet their son or daughter has struggled in big ways.
Is that an indication that, well, Some of these were lacking?
Well, I would say a couple of things. I would say one gently, one is at truth or is that an assumption? And the best way is to If you do, if you did meet them, you know you can go to your Son, daughter, adult son, or daughter, confidently and ask them. And yeah. Be prepared because your children will tell you.
We've done it. Yeah, and. I felt like Dave and I did. As best that we could in our own brokenness. But there were still things that.
Yeah. We didn't do. Yeah. And the second thing I would say is If we were created, and this will liberate parents. If we were created for the Garden of Eden, And Say we raised kids in the Garden of Eden?
And everything was perfect? think about in a fallen world. where you have Fallen people, raising fallen people, One of my friends, Jay Stringer, says: honor and honesty are two sides of the same coins when it comes to our parents. They're not God. And so may we honor them in their humanity that they are not God.
and honor the good things they did. I I'm convinced there's no It's not that black and white. There's no perfect families, no. Yeah, no perfect families, no terrible families. Like, there's good and bad mixed in.
And that's why it can be so hard when. Maybe you look back and you're like Man, so many things were so good and yet There were several themes that really wrecked me and we can minimize kind of ever bringing that up. Um because we we immediately go into blame when You can name things without blaming somebody and seek restoration and reconciliation. With these longings, the second longing that so many. People don't have met.
And I would say this is like a foundational longing. Yeah. And there's so much research around this one, is acceptance. Uh to be Approved of um included and loved as you are in this Communicates that I'm valuable, I'm worthwhile, I'm accepted. I love Romans 15.7.
Uh which says accept one another Then, just as Christ accepted you in order to bring praise to God. And There was a study done last year, 2024, in Hong Kong of 3,600. I think it was teens or or Young people, I'm not sure the exact age, but they found that those who felt accepted by their parents had lower psychological symptoms.
So lower anxiety, lower depression. There was also a study done about 10 years ago by Harvard that showed those. Who have a high level of self-acceptance? More gray matter in their brain, and in the part of the brain, I think it's the limbic system where it's firing off, you know, fear and the fight-or-flight part of your brain.
So, you're actually, if you are dealing with self-acceptance or you have self-acceptance, a high level of it, you're going to be less anxious, less worried, less fearful. And that's evident by brain scans. That's crazy. Here's where I go. If acceptance is that.
critical obviously it is If I'm a Christian parent and my son says he's a girl. Trans or Gay.
Son or daughter? How do I accept? You know, how do I know you're not on that sooner? This is really important. I have to accept them.
This is. almost life you know altering how i respond Help the Christian parent navigate that. Just an easy one, Dan. Just go hard. Exactly.
This is probably one of the most complex ones because, you know, acceptance, it's showing somebody that you. Value them, that you want to be around them, that you care about them, you care about who God has made them. It's looking at their gifts, helping them develop it. It's affirming their personality, like not just saying, I love you, but I love this about you. I love you and this thing about you, and treating people the way.
Jesus would. I think where it gets really challenging is in a culture where What you do, or who you're attracted to, or your identity. Um Your self-proclaimed identity identity When you see that inner worldview core to who you are. that makes it really challenging for people. Because then they believe, well, you're accepting part of me, but not all of me.
That's what they'll say. Right, which is not true, which is where I think it takes a lot of conversations and sharing that in the Christian worldview You are valuable. Because of Genesis 1, you are made in God's image. You're not. You're not valuable because of your personality, because of your gifts, because you're.
Sense of self because of your attractions, because of any of that, because of what you wear, because of what you look like. You're valuable because the core of you is made by God and deeply. loved and valuable. And If people can start to understand the world view difference there about how. Christian Sea Identity and lovability, and how I would say the world does it, and the self-sense of identity.
Perhaps there would be a little more understanding. Yeah, I mean, it's such a difficult one because, in some ways, they're feeling like the world accepts me. And you're saying, you know, I'm made in God's image, but I think I am made by God. With attractions toward same sex. And you're saying, I'm looking past that.
I'm looking to the core who you are. You know, that's a sexuality.
Well, you're saying your identity isn't your sexual identity. And that can seem to people dismissive and. Really, really hard and yet True at the same time. And so I don't know. What would you guys say?
And yet you're saying that, like, no, I'm proving my love and acceptance by you by being there for you, by hearing you, by encouraging you, not necessarily in some of the choices or preferences that you're making or have. But I'm still here for you. And so I think that is a hard one, but I think it's true. And that acceptance one. I'm I'm thinking of the listener.
These to me These are the areas that I want to want to disciple my kids. As I'm listening to you, Ben, I'm like, I want to disciple them spiritually, but when I look at these, this is just me as a mom, like, okay, I'm going to look at these. They all begin with an A, acceptance, appreciation, affection, access, attention, attention of feelings, attention of safety. Affirmation of feelings. That's what I meant.
Affirmation of feelings and assurance of safety. Like these are things as a parent, you can look into, like, okay, I can look at this and think, ah, ah. How are we doing? How am I doing with myself? Because if we're as a parent not accepting who God has made us to be and struggling, Yeah.
It's easy for our kids to see that, and it's hard to maybe give that away. Yeah. Exactly. To the depth that we have experienced God's love and forgiveness is the depth that we can extend it to other people. Dan Allander says you can't take other people further than you have gone yourself.
And so the invitation of discipleship I believe, is to understand Our journey, our story. How we grew up outside the Garden of Eden, what we experienced outside the Garden of Eden that. We never should have, and how that has impacted us, and where we have experienced. brokenheartedness. Um You know, Jesus talked about how he came to heal the broken hearted, and set the captive free.
And I heard trauma therapist Adam Young say there is a linkage there between the broken heartedness we experience and the captivity in which we find ourselves in. And so if you wonder why you keep Lashing out at your kids, or returning to that sin, or dealing with. pornography, you've got to understand these things are not random. They're deeply tied to broken heartedness we've experienced. And where The journey of discipleship, where Jesus wants to gently Set us free and heal us.
And um With these longings, they're relational, like relational wholeness. We're made in God's image. God is triune. Uh three three persons, one being, eternally existent in community. The New Testament mentions one another 100 times exactly.
Overwhelmingly, we need one another. And if it's commanded 100 times, that's discipleship. Like there's there's no such thing as a As an isolated Christian on an island who's Effective and not going to be devoured by the enemy, or not going to be silently suffering and struggling to grow because they're dealing with so many things on their own. I mean, how do you help a person? This is what you do.
connect their unwanted behaviors. With their longings. Yeah, so many of us don't slow down because we're afraid of what we'll find when we do. That's it. Yeah, so it's a coping mechanism.
We just keep running. Our idols reveal our wounds. Like there's a reason why. Even Good things become God things. And it comes out that way, you know, sideways if we don't.
If we don't deal with it, and so connecting those dots is exactly why we wrote this book because we wanted to help. systematize the way that people could identify Trauma, unmet needs in their life through charts, diagrams, walking through the seven longings. How is this met by my mom? How is this met by my dad? Or important people?
How is this partially met? And then, of those things, how did that make me feel? What did it cause me to believe about me?
Well, what did it cause me to believe about God? What did it cause me to believe about other people? Those right there are so much.
So big. And then we've got a list of like 50 different coping mechanisms that you can go through and say, oh, deal with that. Netflix binging, deal with that.
Now you're getting a little too personal, Ben. And then we walk you through. How to start finding these uh fulfilled now In healthy coping mechanisms by God and others, but the most simple way. Like I get messages all the time of people struggling with pornography or Um they're struggling with anxiety. And The best way is to get curious with yourself, to start questioning, like.
What happened the day before? What conversations did I have? What was I thinking? What stress or pressure was I feeling? And then you look at the seven longings and say, oh, I probably wasn't feeling acceptance.
I mean, baseline for a lot of people, it's acceptance. Like, ultimately, They don't have a porn problem. They have a rejection problem. Let me clarify that. Pornography is a problem.
It is destructive and harmful and sin, yet. There's something deeper going on behind that. Everything we do flows from our heart. And so for people, Experiencing rejection rather than acceptance growing up. experiencing rejection, thinking they're going to fail, somebody disagreeing with them, a spouse, a boss, having an overwhelming task and you don't do that well on it or it makes you feel incompetent.
Those things are going to set you up for your coping mechanism of choice.
Well, talk about, you've mentioned it a couple of times, porn. We've had Jay Stringer on. It's been a while. You know, one of the things that's unique, I don't know if other people do this, but Jay has written about I can even connect the kind of porn. you're drawn to to your Your wound.
I recently preached on porn at my church last two or three months, and one of the stats I came across was seven out of ten. Churchmen. Have looked at porn in the last month. These are church guys.
So obviously there's something. Broken there in this world. I know there's people listening right now or watching, they have this secret. In their unwanted behavior, this is one of them. There's others, but this is one.
What's going on there? Is it the longing of affection? Yeah, give us all the above. I'm thinking of the people that are listening that have A porn problem, an eating problem. Like, there's our problem.
Okay. Alcohol. We realize, okay, I do have that. Or maybe I'm just anxious.
Now, what do I do? Yeah. Well, I led porn addiction recovery groups for six years, the first six years in ministry. Really? And.
As of August 1st, I've been free from porn and masturbation for 12 years. Wow. So you can be set free from that. And I was addicted for 10 years. I couldn't imagine my life without it.
I didn't want to. It was. The most Addictive thing I've ever walked through because it releases a superflow of dopamine in your brain. It's the new crack cocaine, it's in everybody's pockets. It's so easy to get addicted.
It's anonymous, accessible. And it's the ultimate coping mechanism. And because of what it does to your brain, And it's so highly addictive, it quickly can rewire your brain, leading to an addiction, which is so hard to get out. I actually wrote a digital download called Five Steps to Quit Porn. That you can get at resolutionmovement.org under our resources tab.
But I share the five core steps that God used to set me free. From it for good, because we can walk in true freedom. We can have a new brain. I can't remember the last time I was tempted to look at porn. It's been years.
Like, God can actually do that. And One of the key things, one of the key five steps is identify why you do what you don't want to do. And it has to do with What are the seven longings? growing up that significantly went met went unmet, How did that shape my perception of myself? God, other people.
And when that comes up now in the present. How am I coping with that?
Okay, so for me, you know, talking about acceptance growing up, feeling rejected by my mom, by my dad. In middle school, bullied by friends. I thought that I was Worthless, that I was unlovable, that I was a reject.
So, fast forward to college. What happens when Things constantly bring that old feeling up again. Like when my Friend and I get into an argument. Yeah. The teacher embarrasses me, the professor embarrasses me for whatever reason, or I study really hard and put my best into something.
And then get a C.
Well, all of those things I'm going to read through the filter of rejection because that's what I know. And so, in that moment, what it's going to do psychologically in my brain is engage all of those old neurological pathways of trauma and rejection. With it in the moment as an adult, bring all of that up at once.
So, no matter, so no wonder. I would go to Porn to try and escape that. because anything was better than reliving That pain and the deep lies and the deep shame. Yet porn was the trap where Dealing with shame. And rejection led me to it.
But then after I just felt more shame and rejection and it's just this toxic psychology trap. Yep. Mm.
So okay, so what did you so You know, you're triggered. All of that happens. You realize, oh, this is acceptance. This is what happened. This is what.
what hurt my view of myself, my view of God. Then what? In the moment. Uh you you start to recognize what's going on. Oh, this is coming up again.
I'm feeling like a reject. One, taking thoughts captive, like the Bible says, so telling ourselves that we are. loved, chosen. I would think back on experiences. Um Where God proved his love and acceptance to me.
I would think back to This worship event I went to, and I was crying, and God spoke so clearly to me that He loved me. And so, in that moment, when the fight-or-flight part of my brain where the trauma is stored is coming up, telling me I'm such a reject, I would actually go back. And think back on an experience that also was engaging the limbic system in my brain and relive it. And then in that moment, I would start to see a shift.
Now I believe I'm accepted. I would also reach out to a friend. This was a big one. Like, even when you, like, you're, you're so overwhelmed, triggered, whatever, you can't really think. I would call up.
A friend. healing. I committed to a life of no secrets with Two other guys, and we were calling each other, processing our emotions in our early 20s as single guys. and talking about the themes that were stressing us out, bringing up trauma. And what we found was, we started to develop a lifestyle of reaching out rather than acting out.
And then later I started doing research on that. And I was like, this is interesting. Corn releases a high amount of dopamine in your brain. You know, it also releases dopamine in your brain. Having a life-giving conversation.
Not the same amount, it doesn't release the same amount as corn, but it's God's way. And so I was actually able to find what I needed God's way. And when I would call up that person, I felt so accepted and seen, like, man, that must be really hard. Like, there's obviously the aspect of calling your friend, you felt real intimacy. Mm-hmm.
Porn is superficial. Yes. It's not inspizzy. Exactly. It gives you a hit, but...
Mm-hmm. You feel less after than you did before. I think the way I'm looking at it, you remember the old cartoons with the Devil and the angel on your shoulder. It's almost like you're triggered and you have two pathways that you could walk. The easy, if we've walked down this pathway so many times, the one that it's like the enemy takes us on.
We're so used to it that we just naturally, my friend used to call, because we've done a lot of healing things. When you come home from work or come home from something, you put on your old baggy sweatpants. It feels comfortable. You just put on those clothes because you've done it every time. And so you just automatically put them on.
To put on something different. It's like rewiring your brain, salvage denim for the first time. Oh my goodness, it feels so uncomfortable at first to put anything different on, but I love the idea of recalling because think of all the times in scripture, scripture, Moses would tell the people, remember, remember God's faithfulness. And so we have this choice to go down this other street. But here's the tension.
that we all know, they said we'd rather go back to Egypt. Mm-hmm. They'd rather go back to what they know to what they don't know. Baggy sweatpants. It's it.
sometimes, you know, that that old thing that's more That is more known and more comfortable feels safer than the risk of the unknown. Yeah. Oh, that's it. I think about remembering. I remember years ago, John Piper said that remembering gives us faith for the future.
That's good. I was like, that is so good. And I think. Even on a neurological level, how it engages our brain. Like, that's why God tells us to remember, because when we're struggling to believe, If we remember.
It activates Our limbic system where we are almost re-experiencing. What he did in the past, now on a biological level in the present. And it helps us believe: no, I am going to go God's way. Like this is going to be more satisfying. And then it starts rewiring your brain.
So for me, now, 12 years porn-free. I'm not tempted to look at porn. The temptation is to not reach out for help. My brain, it goes, Oh, you're stressed, you're anxious, you're. You know, getting exhausted.
Maybe I'll wait a day before I reach out to somebody and process this. You know, it's. It's interesting how that temptation changes to isolate. Yeah. How old were you when you started to really process through everything we talked about earlier?
I mean, I look at, again, I'm looking at your book, Free to Thrive. When did you start to? Yeah. Understand and process to the point where you're really starting to thrive. What's the end of the story?
Because we started with your story. I I think we're Always on a journey, right? Of healing and greater levels of freedom and discipleship. Um But I would say Uh the when I was 23, I guess it was. I went a year without looking at porn, but I wasn't free.
It was just. willpower trying like oh I'm I'm fighting to resist. Then that first year of the healing journey, therapy, going through, um, The Life of No Secrets for a Year. That was the year where we... We were in group counseling and started to really peel back the The setup, so to speak, in our journey, the setup from the enemy.
From what we had experienced growing up in our family, the setup of the lies, of the coping mechanisms. I did a Year-long outpatient process with a certified sex addiction therapist, and it was so helpful. in connecting the dots and understanding Why am I doing what I don't want to do? What is this actually about? Romans 7.
Yeah. Yeah. And a light bulb moment going off. Oh, this is making sense. And then it can start to shift from shame and condemnation to.
Like grace, like It doesn't mean my porn use was okay. But it makes sense. I was suffering so bad emotionally and relationally. It makes sense that I would choose that Um And then starting to A big thing was relearn who God is and who He says I am. And Learning that in the scriptures, having it modeled by mentors and.
The guys that I had a life of no secrets with. My My Therapists used to say, We're wounded in relationships and we're healed in relationships. And so, over time, of new experiences with godly, safe people, spiritual fathers, spiritual. Mothers, great mentors, great friends. Throughout the years.
Um Getting in those environments. And then another big thing was I had to cut the. trash talking voice of shame in my in my head. I just did a post on this on Instagram. Three signs you're in an abusive relationship with yourself.
And I'm convinced that most Christians are. Oh, I was terrible. Sign number one is you tear yourself down. I would do it to motivate myself, you know. You're so worthless.
You're ugly and fat. It's like awful things Satan would say to you. And I call it, we have to, and Romans 12:1 and 2 are my favorite verses because I feel like. That has been transformative. It's training your brain.
And it's biblical. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I'm not.
I wonder how many lies the enemy has to tell us when we do such a good job of telling them to ourselves. Exactly. And if we can stop telling ourselves. Like, cut out that voice in our head and start telling us. That we are 1 John 3:1, love children of God.
Psalm 8:6, created a little bit lower. than God and crowned with glory and honor. Genesis one made in God's Image, like this is who we are, and then think about times we've experienced that. Whenever those lies come up, it starts to God really heals us through it. Wow, hello, I was just looking at it.
If you treated a friend the way you treat yourself, they'd leave. That's shame, that's that's that's harsh. God never calls you worthless He never condemns you. If the voice in your head tears you down, it isn't his. I guess everybody needs to follow Yeah, follow him.
Ben V. Bennett. One of the greatest passions of my life is growing spiritually stronger. Going deeper, learning more, and connecting to Jesus more. And maybe you feel the same.
Or maybe you want to explore what it looks like to follow Jesus. You can go to familylife.com/slash stronger faith. And we've got resources there that can help you grow in your faith. And I really hope that you'll check it out because I'm confident that you'll find something there that will make an impact in your life. Go visit familylife.com/slash strongerfaith.
I gotta ask you this, because you said something about you're wounded in relationships, you're healed in relationships. Apply that to marriage. I know you're not married, but in marriage, We feel the wound. We're sort of shocked by it because we didn't expect it because we found the one. And there's a part of it.
And she's it and he's it, right? We feel like our spouse will heal those wounds. All they do is trigger them. Right. Yeah.
And so when that happens, I think a lot of us in the church as well think. I married the wrong person. I'm wounded by her, I'm wounded by him. I'm not going to be wounded by the next one. When I heard you say we're wounded and healed in relationships, I thought That means the same relationship sometimes.
You don't leave your marriage to go to another relationship to get healed. Unless it's abuse, there's abuse. Yeah, there's abuse. Yeah, we say get help. You know, you're not supposed to just.
But if it's this, it's like, no, stay in there and fight for this because this relationship's actually going to be what God's going to use to heal you with the same person that wounded you. Is that true? Yeah. What I've seen, I guess, in dating relationships I've been a part of, and then married couples who have been in some of the healing groups I've led is the first step is awareness of your story. Like, We're fighting over how to cut the tomatoes.
Perhaps it's maybe not about the tomatoes, you know? Perhaps it's because you experienced this and I experienced this, and it's basically this giant trigger cycle. But the beauty is, triggers can lead to transformation when you understand your story. And If you're able And I've been able to practice this to talk about. What happened?
What did that cause in you? What did that remind you of? Then it gives you grace for the other person and to say, I have compassion. on the eight-year-old who was yelled at for cutting the tomatoes from by their mom. And so I can own my part and be more sensitive on that.
And then that can actually become, rather than what the enemy wants to use to divide a relationship, to divide a marriage, that can be used to heal. Marriage, a bridge, yeah. We've said that, and we've done that quite a bit with couples of share. Even with a small group of couples, I think it's really important to share your story. We call it your timeline story of the good and the hard.
But we also tell the people in the group: listen. Listen for the things that have been really hurtful and then respond to them. And don't let the person that's told you like they just need to listen and receive. And so listen for that, but also listen for like This is what I see in you in terms of being made in God's image, like these beautiful things. I've seen couples do that with one another.
They've been married for 10 years, but they still haven't shared sometimes those deepest, darkest wounds and hurts. And when a spouse or even another couple will say, That had to be.
So hard. Do you realize like How horrendous that is. When you're living it, you don't realize that because you've internalized it and condemned yourself. And then, when they say, but this is what I see in you, people will just sob.
Sob. And I think, as a couple, we need to know each other's stories and the pain. And that's being healed in relationships. Hey, where does forgiveness? Fit in the journey.
So I'm guessing you had to forgive some people. Yeah, yeah, and I think I'm going to write a book on forgiveness.
Sometime because I think we get it wrong a lot as Christians. I think we have more so a a worldly view of Forgiveness. Meaning, a lot of people in the world will say Ultimately, there's no real justice. I basically give somebody a pass, I fall on my sword, but who's paying the debt? Because that person who abused me can't make it right.
And so, the way I forgive forgiveness is forgiveness is surrendering the debt. of the wrongs somebody owes you to God the just judge. And He's gonna sort it out. And so where Where I got to, forgiveness used to be really hard because I thought it was like, well, there's no justice for the abuse I went through. It's like, I just get off free.
Yeah, exactly. But when I started to, God showed me this in the scriptures. No, it's surrendering the debt to God. He's going to sort it out. I could start saying.
Well, that's easy. Like, I know you. You've been there since day one. I trust you. I'm not going to sort this debt out myself.
Like, you're the ultimate debt collector, if we're being real. Maybe that sounds too dark, but he's the ultimate debt collector. Um he's going to sort it out. I know that I've had to be forgiven. And so I can give that person grace.
And it's scary that You know, there are debts that I have owed. I'm thankful that Christ paid the payment on the cross for me. Yet it's. It's very freeing. To forgive and to surrender it to God and to trust Him as a just judge, that there is.
cosmic justice for the scenes we've gone through for I mean, even if you think about around the world, crimes against humanity, like atrocious things that have happened, like. God is just, and his justice is good. And, um, And you have to know him and be in his word. I believe that. How'd it go for you with your dad?
Uh well, for me, it was Forgiving. It was surrendering that. It was, um, And I think Well, for me, forgiveness and for many people, I think Forgiveness is a decision to surrender that debt to God, but then there's a timeline of. The emotions Surrounding it. The anger, the grief, the stuff coming up again, the.
Um Forgiving, but People not need, not thinking they need to be forgiven for things, which I won't get into, but is a maddening painful experience. Um and just Uh, sitting with that and processing that, but um. It's good to be in a place of forgiveness and and to to even move past bitterness or resentment, and even mostly to move past When people don't think they need to be forgiven or deny things, uh, to not be bitter about that either and trust God, so. Really good. I became a man at around the age of thirty two, thirty three, and they're like, What?
So that was the year I forgave my dad. You know, Lewis Smead's in a book on forgiveness says, when you forgive someone, you set a prisoner free only to realize you're the prisoner. I didn't understand. I always thought I'm locking him up. You walked out, you don't get to come back.
I'm like, I'm liking me up. I am not able to be the husband she needs and the dad my kids deserve. Until I go on this process, and that was a big deal. I feel like I don't think I really was free to be a man yet until I dealt with that.
So, I'm, you know, I'm guessing that was part of your journey. Here's my last question: the hat you're wearing. Oh, yeah, I wanted to ask you that too. Which people that aren't watching, they can't see it, but it says, Suicide stops with me. I'm guessing you get a lot of comments on that in the airport.
Yeah. I remember after starting resolution movement, To help people with mental health and sexual brokenness and whatnot. Um One of my friends.
Well, so I've lost people to suicide. One of my grandfathers died by suicide. One of my friends I was talking with. One of his friends led a mental health movement, died by suicide, and We were just talking about like, this stops with us. We're not going to go Out this way, as hard as life gets.
And we want to help other people. Stop. From making or from ending up in that place. And so. Having wrestled with depression and suicidal thoughts, and it's.
Almost like uh like we're covenanting that we're gonna We're going to reach out. We're going to trust each other. We're going to. a walk with God and one another. through this and try to help other people.
Stay alive. That's awesome. I love that. I think one of the things that I'm going to take home, or I want. I'm looking there.
I want our listeners to really think about, especially men. Because I I can't speak to women like you can, but. Do you have a couple guys in your life that you don't go two or three days? Not calling. Yeah.
and sharing secrets or struggles you are holding just Between you and God, and you know, you're losing those battles, you don't win those battles, you lose more. I mean, what a piece of advice of wisdom from you to say. Who's in a foxhole with you. That there's no secrets. And you don't have 50 of those.
You only need a couple, but you got to have them. And I think, too, with women, it's easy. We all get busy. We're just. Surviving.
But there's something about getting real and getting down to earth and getting into our stuff. I was with a group of women who are great friends who were just laughing. I'm like, I had this need because our kids were a little, like, let's stop talking about nothingness, even though that's it's fun, it's fun, but like, We're living at a time where it's hard. Like, I'm struggling. I know you guys are too.
Let's get into it. And I'm more of an intense person, so I'll take us there. But it's easy to get lazy. It's easy just to drift away from God, away from people. And man, that's exactly what Satan wants for us to be isolated.
So your ministry is phenomenal. And by the way, I mean, y'all made all these seven longings available so that if people are listening and they got two of the longings and having trouble keeping up with them and wanting to know what the other five are, they can go to familylife.com slash seven longings. Is that right? Yep, that's where you go. And by the way, Free to Thrive, the book is in our show notes at familylifetoday.com.
Just click on the link there. And the name of your ministry again, Resolution. Resolution Movement. Yeah, we'll put a link there as well so you can connect with Ben. And Ben, I was thinking, I'm like, I feel like it'd be so good for you to pray for people that are just feeling that stuck.
Yeah. They're desperate and they're suffering in silence. Yeah, I would love to. Let's do it. Father, you are holy and set apart.
And other and The biggest word that comes to my mind is is worthy. worthy of our time, our thoughts, our worship. Our stories. And we know that our stories aren't over. Um A lot of times.
Healing is just around. the other corner. I've seen that in my life. I've seen that in so many people's lives.
So Jesus, I think about your compassion. your desire Um to heal the brokenhearted. I think about how you wept over Jerusalem. I think about Um How different translations say that you are indignant at times. over the suffering you saw.
Uh in people. And we know that the struggles, the trauma, the mental health issues. the addiction, the sin struggles. People are suffering and feel trapped, and like there's no way out, and are going through the emotions and going through the same things again and again. And, God, I just pray.
Um You would deliver. People, that you would set them free, that you would. Help them know the next best step to take and to see this as a journey one step at a time. God, I pray. Um that you'd provide Relationships.
Wisdom, God, you say that if we need wisdom and ask for it, you'll give it to us. God, would you bring wisdom into people's lives about The seven longings, the unmet longings, the themes they've been through, how it's coming up now, and what freedom. Looks like God, I just pray for A fresh wind of encouragement and this discouragement. Seems like it is happening all around the world, and we see it by the numbers of suicides growing up and. People in crisis.
God, would you just? Lift our eyes to where our help comes from. Do you keep people Here Focused on you, focused on Healing, discipleship, evangelism, reaching. Other people for your kingdom, and may we be able to preach a message that says. Come follow Jesus.
He'll heal you. and set you free because he has done that for me. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Amen.
Thanks, Ben. Thanks, Ben. That was awesome. Thanks for having me. What a great ministry.
Hey, thanks for watching. And if you like this episode, you better like it. Just hit that like button. Yeah, and we'd like you to subscribe.
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