Money in Marriage: It’s a Matter of Value with Shaunti Feldhahn

Hey everyone, Rob West here. You've heard me talk about faith and finances for years and a common question I get is, how can I align my faith values with my banking decisions? Well, we recommend our friends at Christian Community Credit Union who've been serving Christians for over 67 years. Visit JoinChristianCommunity.com to learn more. That's JoinChristianCommunity.com. by American Share Insurance.

This institution is not federally insured. Well, it's always a blessing to have relationship expert, Shanti Feldhahn on the program. Shanti, welcome back.

It's always great to be with you. Shanti, you have an insightful article in FaithFi's new quarterly publication, Faithful Steward. I was so excited to get it in our first issue. It's called Money in Marriage, It's a Matter of Value, and it shows how important it is to understand where spouses are coming from if we want to avoid money squabbles. Now, you start the piece with a great story about how you and your husband, Jeff, discovered this early in your marriage, and I thought it might be a great place for us to start today.

Yeah, this is one of those things that's kind of embarrassing to even mention, but this is where the lessons come from, right? We were living in New York, and we were both working these long hours. In New York, one of the things that you kind of have to do when you're both working long hours is you just eat out a lot.

For us, that was great. We kind of had the money for it, but we would always get into these crazy arguments as we were sort of in the middle of dinner. And it took me a while to figure out what was going on. It took us a while, because the waiter would always come over and say, you know, can I get you anything to drink? Jeff would order water.

I would order a Diet Coke. And then later, I would ask for a refill, and Jeff would start shutting down. And it took us a while to recognize that, oh, by the way, in New York, I should say that refills are not free.

Right. And Jeff is thinking, apparently, what I did not know, is that Jeff was thinking something about my motivation that was not what I was thinking. And it really all had to do with what each of you value. Now, I know this became a lot clearer as you launched into this really important survey and study that resulted in a book, and we'll talk about that, but unpack how you were able to begin to understand what was going on beneath the surface as you continued through your work. Well, we didn't actually realize until we started this big national project for helping people around their marriage and money, we kind of went back to the Diet Coke thing, which had become kind of infamous. And we went, oh, that's an example of one of the things that we found, which is that it turns out one of those issues that causes a lot of conflict in most marriages is that you're not valuing what the other person is valuing. And in that particular case, what we realized is that Jeff was literally thinking, like, if we keep ordering refills for $4.50, like, we're going to be homeless in retirement. That was what was in his mind. Like, and he was thinking, you know, how can she be willing to do this? Like, she doesn't realize how hard I'm working.

Like, we have $125,000 in student loan debt. Clearly, she doesn't care about our financial well-being, right? There you go.

She doesn't care about it. Right. And what he didn't know until we were able to actually talk about it, is that actually, no, it was something completely different, which was for me, we were newlyweds at the time, he didn't know that I know this is weird, but I don't like the taste of water.

Yeah, I know that's strange. But literally, like, it's a thing for me, I'm fine with staying home and cooking at home. But if I'm going out somewhere to eat, like, I can only enjoy a meal if I have like an iced tea or a diet coke or something else to drink.

And he can enjoy a meal just fine with just water. This little tiny thing was just something that we didn't know about each other. And so we didn't know how to even, we didn't even know that this was a thing, much less how to honor what the other person valued.

Yeah. And that was a key understanding that was really a game changer for you all. And I know as you got into your work, you realize that, hey, we're not alone. This is very common. And in fact, there's all kinds of examples about how what you value is different than what I value. And it shows up in the money conversation all the time. So when we come back, we'll unpack a few of those and maybe you'll have that aha that Shanti and Jeff had about how your understanding of your spouse's wiring and preferences could be a game changer. Shanti Felton here today.

We're talking money and marriage. Back with more right after this. Stick around. Including equity, fixed income and balance strategies. They are led by industry veteran Bob Doll, CFA, a regular guest on the faith and finance program.

More information is available at crossmarkglobal.com. Have you ever wondered where your money goes when you deposit it in a bank? Christian Community Credit Union believes in helping advance God's kingdom through everyday financial transactions. For over 67 years, they have provided values aligned banking solutions to thousands of Christians and ministries. Consider Christian Community Credit Union as your banking institution by visiting joinchristiancommunity.com membership eligibility required. Each account is insured up to $250,000.

This institution is not federally insured. I'm so glad you've joined us today for faith and finance. I'm Rob West with me today. My friend, Shanti Felton, Shanti and her husband, Jeff wrote the book Thriving in Love and Money. And folks, it is a game changer in terms of you understanding what are the drivers to the breakdown in communication, to the arguments, to the frustration around money and marriage.

Because God's heart is that we would have oneness, that we'd have unity in marriage. And despite the fact that we have different backgrounds and different ways that God has hardwired us, this whole area of money management can be an instrument of peace that drives you toward God's ultimate plan for your marriage and your family and each of you in your walk with him. But it doesn't have to be a source of distraction or frustration and thriving in love and money will help you get to the heart of that.

So pick it up wherever you buy books. And Shanti, we were sharing before the break that really at the foundation of this book is a massive study that you and Jeff did on this topic of money and marriage. I'd love for you to unpack a little bit of the data and maybe some of the key learnings from that. Yeah, no, we spent several years essentially trying to understand what is it that creates a great marriage around money. Now, obviously, other people can do a much better job of, you know, how do you help people budget and all that kind of stuff. What we really wanted to uncover were what were the factors in your relationship that most matter? And what we talked about right before the break was one of them, you know, this concept of, wow, the thing that causes the friction is often that you're simply just not valuing what the other person is valuing. We found that this was really common and depending on the survey question, this is anywhere from like two thirds to like 80, 85 percent of people fell into this category.

One of my favorite ones, because I recognized it in myself, is that 67 percent, so more than two thirds of people in a spending conflict, they're looking at their spouse while they're arguing over buying this refrigerator or that refrigerator. And they're thinking to themselves, if you would just look at this logically, you would agree with me. You're just not being logical. And the problem is both people are thinking that. Yes, exactly.

At the same time. And so that's one of the big issues that is running under the surface. Well, let's talk about that for a second, because I'd love for you to perhaps share some examples of what this looks like in the typical couple's life where they value different things and perhaps are thinking just that. If you would just think about this logically, we'd be on the same page here. Where does that show up?

Well, think about let me give you just a silly example, because all of us kind of get these sorts of things. Imagine that you have a real desire to buy a particularly expensive or nice or high end membership in a gym or a golf club or whatever. And it's and let's just say, you know, it's a it's a nice gym.

It's one hundred fifty dollars a month, two hundred dollars a month. And for you, it's kind of expensive. But, you know, OK, it's worth it. Right.

That's OK. Your spouse comes back from Costco with two hundred dollars worth of stuff. And you're like, why does it cost so much? Right. And it's the same amount. Yes. But you're like, come on. Like what we mostly from Costco is toilet paper and whatever.

And it should cost seventy five or one hundred dollars per visit total. Sure. Those are examples of you're valuing two different things and you don't realize it for you. The value is, wow, it's it's not just a golf club. This is a chance for me to have a place that I network with people. This is a chance for me to make sure that I'm kind of up on, you know, how when I'm golfing. So I'm not embarrassed. Like that's really important to me to to to actually be competent and to have the opportunity to take some lessons and, you know, that kind of thing. So it's not just a service that just happens to cost some hundreds of dollars a month. There's a lot of other stuff under there. It's being better at my job, et cetera. Yes.

OK. Whereas your spouse may be on the other thing, thinking that's just ridiculous. Why are we spending that much money for a monthly, you know, fees of the golf club when really what we need are we need to be spending our money on consumables, like going to Costco and spending two hundred dollars. That saves me from spending four hundred dollars of the grocery store because everything's much more cheap and consumables are worth it. That's just an example. The idea of like things versus services. Those are two different types of things that people care about. And here's the thing.

There's no one right answer. That's the key is that for us to recognize that it's not that you're right and I'm wrong, it's that we're valuing two different things and you have to and this is this is not overstating it. In order to have a good marriage around money, you have to understand what's going on underneath what your spouse values so you can talk about it. Yeah.

And I know this shows up in other areas. You give other examples in the book, like enjoying the present and using money to deepen relationships versus saving for retirement. It could be giving great presents to the kids or grandkids versus building an inheritance. It can manifest itself in all kinds of ways, but at the heart of it is a difference in what we value. Now, that leads to, Shanti, one of the other big findings to avoid this conflict in marriage, which was communication, because the only way you're going to understand what the other values is if you're talking about it, right?

Yes. And the issue that often comes up, and this is extremely common, the issue that often comes up is you don't realize you're not actually communicating about what's going on in your spouse's heart and mind. You're telling them what you want, which is fine. Like, of course, like everybody has their opinions.

Awesome. But just recognize that there is a heart underneath what your spouse cares about, and there's a heart underneath what you care about. And you have to understand that underneath the surface stuff if you want a great relationship around money. Now, you might be able to have great money. You might be able to have a great retirement account. You might be able to have perfect financial services and have not a great marriage around money.

And I think people want both. Yeah. Shanti, obviously, doing the hard work and uncovering and understanding each other's values is something we can do on our own just by talking about it.

But what about the role of the advisor to walk alongside you in this? Well, one of the things that we found actually in the research that was so encouraging for like the kingdom advisor community, the Christian financial advisor community, is that the average financial advisor, they don't want any part of that conversation. Right. Let me deal with the numbers, not the marriage, please.

Exactly. They're like, oh, I'm not a marriage counselor. And no, of course, your financial advisor is not a marriage counselor regardless. However, one of the things that people who have a kingdom mindset are trained to do, and I've done some of the training for some of the kingdom advisors in your world, is actually to go, you know what, this is a bigger thing. Like God cares just as much or more about the marriage as he does about the finances, because if the marriage is in trouble, your finances could be great and you're still not actually honoring God in this. And so I really do encourage people to talk to their financial advisor about, help me work through these values with my spouse so we know where to put our money. That is so good. Well, Shanti, we're going to have you back because we just scratched the service, but thanks for your time today.

Absolutely. Folks, if you'd like to dive deeper into how values shape money in marriage, be sure to read Shanti's article in Faithfi's new quarterly publication, Faithful Steward. To have Faithful Steward delivered to your mailbox every quarter, become a Faithfi partner by visiting faithfi.com slash give.

We'll be right back. Every day we hear life-changing stories from listeners just like you who see money and possessions as tools to invite more people into God's kingdom. Instead of chasing wealth, you've chosen to embrace God as your source of love and provision.

At Faithfi, we're passionate about meeting people where they live and work through our national radio program, app, resources, and website to influence widespread positive change in our culture. Please consider becoming a monthly partner at faithfi.com slash give. Are you a financial advisor or CPA seeking to build your practice on biblical wisdom? Not only does the certified kingdom advisor education provide you with deep biblical insights, the CKA designation sets you apart. Each year, almost 50,000 people search for a Christian financial advisor. Join our community and share your expertise with clients looking for someone who shares their faith and values.

Find more information at kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified. Great to have you with us today at Faith and Finance. We're taking your calls and questions today, 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. You can call right now. To Louisiana, Ken, thanks for waiting patiently, sir. Go ahead.

Thank you for taking my call. Yes, sir. Yes, I'm 65 years old and I have a conventional IRA.

It's a little over a million dollars. And I'm wondering, should I start converting some of that traditional to a Roth since I'll be required to take that RMD at 73? Yeah, not necessarily, Ken.

I mean, there's a case for that potentially, but I wouldn't say just automatically. Are you still working right now? No, I'm retired. You are retired.

Okay. Yeah, so you have to begin taking that RMD, but not until April 1st of the year following the year you turn 73. So you've got a good bit of time here before you have to start taking a required minimum. Secondly, you know, if you were to convert this roughly million dollars, even if you did it over several years, I mean, you could have hundreds of thousands of dollars in income tax that you would have to pay as you make, well, you'd have several hundred thousand dollars each year of income that would be taxable.

So not necessarily the tax bill would be hundreds of thousands, but, you know, that's a lot of tax that would be paid on a lot of income as you recognize it in the conversion. The other thing I would say is, keep in mind, one of the great ways to satisfy that RMD, so long as it continues to be available, is something that you can start doing once you're 70 and a half, and therefore you could also do it when you're 73 and that required minimum kicks in, which is a qualified charitable distribution. And so any giving that you're doing out of checking or savings right now, let's say you're weekly tied to the church, or just, you know, end of year giving or whatever it is, you could replace that instead of sending that check out of your checking account, you could just start sending it from your IRA directly to your church or another ministry or charity. Again, it could be the same amount you're already doing. I'm not necessarily saying you have to give any more, but the qualified charitable distribution allows you to get that money out of your IRA without ever paying any tax on it, and satisfy your required minimum. So that's something that a lot of people miss. So if you wanted to take advantage of that, you wouldn't need to convert anything to a Roth. Does that make sense? It makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

So I think you're in good shape, but remember, you're still looks like about eight years away from needing to take an RMD, and I don't think you necessarily have to convert anything to a Roth. But hopefully that gives you a few things to think about, sir. Lord bless you and all the best to you in this exciting season of life as you seek out what God has for you in terms of what's next. Thanks for calling. Angela, go right ahead.

How can I help? Hi. I was wanting to ask, me and my husband have started making more money as a household, but we haven't financially advanced in our lives, like our savings hasn't grown, we haven't made any debts for like our goals or anything. And he is not a believer, and he does not believe in tithing. He thinks it's a big scam. Well, he won't tithe out of his money at all. And I always tithe 10% and save 10%, and that's just how I am. And I come from faith-based with that, that he was just adamantly against it and doesn't believe in any of it.

And I know how it's blessed us just as a family from tithing, and I know how it's blessed me specifically, but I don't know how to try and help him understand that it's not a scam and that it is an opportunity for God to open more doors and bless us with more finances. But how would you suggest I approach that? Yeah, I appreciate that question, Angela. This is actually a question that we tackle in the first edition of Faithful Stewart. And so I'm going to have my team get your information.

I want to get you a copy of the new publication as soon as it's out. But let me tell you kind of how we approach this. You know, when a believer feels called to give to their church but faces opposition, it really does create a delicate situation when you have a non-Christian spouse, and it requires wisdom and grace. You know, Ephesians 5 21 encourages us as Christ followers to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. And so I think the principle here that's the key idea for this situation is that the marriage is more important than the money.

It's essential, I think, to prioritize unity and harmony in your marriage over financial disagreements. Ron Blue, who's one of my mentors and the popular author of Master Your Money and other books, he will tell the story that when his wife, Judy, became a believer before he did, she didn't insist that they begin giving to the church. Instead, she just lived out 1 Peter 3 1 and 2, which talks about winning the other person over through your conduct rather than persuasion. And Ron will tell you that Judy just patiently lived out her faith, and that caused him to remain open to the gospel and ultimately surrender his life to Christ. And if she had pushed, he will tell you it might have turned him away from both her and the faith. And so I think a few suggestions, and I'm not saying this is necessarily the way to go, you need to work this out before the Lord and with your spouse, but perhaps first listen openly to your spouse's concerns.

And it sounds like you know what it is, he said that he thinks it's a scam. But I think you being willing to listen fosters that healthy dialogue and shows that you care more about their perspective. Then I think you take the opportunity to explain why giving is meaningful to you. Share how generosity aligns with your faith and frame it as a personal conviction rather than an obligation. And I think this approach allows your spouse to see the giving as an expression of your values without feeling pressure.

And then if disagreements persist, well, I think you explore creative compromises, for instance, you might budget individually for causes you each value. And this way you can give to your church and your spouse could give in a way that allows him to experience the joy of supporting something he cares about. But I think at the end of the day, Angela, remember, God owns everything.

He doesn't need our money. He wants your heart, he wants unity in your marriage, and ultimately he wants your husband to surrender his life to Jesus as Lord. And so I think at the end of the day, you just need to trust God's timing in my perspective. And I think unity and generosity are biblical callings, but God's ultimate desire is for hearts to be transformed and surrendered to him. So I'd pray for your husband.

I'm sure you do that regularly. I'd lean on God. And I trust that your faithfulness will speak volumes and that will foster peace and unity in your marriage. And ultimately, let's pray that your husband surrenders his life to Christ.

Does that make sense? Yes, thank you. OK. All right. Listen, I appreciate your call today. I'm going to pray for you before we go. Father, I just lift up Angela to you. Lord, just give her wisdom and grace and understanding. Be in every one of those conversations.

Help she and her husband to come together in unity around managing your resources. And above all else, Lord, may his eyes be opened and his heart be softened. May he ultimately come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and surrender his life to you.

We ask that you would go before us in every conversation they have. And we ask this in Jesus name. Angela, God bless you. Thanks for calling today. Folks, that's going to do it for us. Big thanks to my team today, Sandy, Devin, Taylor, Jim. Can't do it without them. If you want to support our work here at Faith and Finance, faithfi.com, just click Give. We can't do it without you. God bless you. See you tomorrow. Faith and Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.