Gospel Generosity with Dr. Nathan Harris

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That's faithbuy.com slash give. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. 2 Corinthians 8-9.

Hi, I'm Rob West. That verse is among the most cited on the subject of generosity, and for good reason. It links generosity with the gospel. Dr. Nathan Harris joins us to make that connection even stronger. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance – biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Our guest is Dr. Nathan W. Harris. He's vice president for strategic initiatives at the University of Mobile and author of the new book, A Short Guide to Gospel Generosity, Giving as an Act of Grace. Dr. Harris, welcome to the program. Yeah, thank you so much for having me on today, Rob.

I'm grateful to be here. Sure. The term gospel generosity may be new to some people, so would you take a moment here right at the start to define it for us?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can give you a real simple definition, and it's this gospel generosity is generosity that's rooted in the gospel. I can tease that out a little bit more, and I'm happy to do so. But I often say that generosity is not merely a virtue for the Christian life, but really is a cheerful disposition that springs forth from the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ. Generosity is a fruit of the gospel that arises from new life in Christ.

It's something that's empowered by the Holy Spirit and that we've seen modeled by the Father throughout all of creation. Gospel generosity is that sign of a radical reforming of a believer's head and heart to joyfully serve the Lord through their stewardship or their resources. So the long story short, generosity for Christians is not just about giving, but it's about proclaiming and portraying the saving work of Christ in their life.

Oh, that's powerful. I love the picture that that gives of our generosity as an overflow of gratitude for what Christ has done on our behalf. Now, Dr. Harris, as we talk about giving, people naturally gravitate toward questions about the tithe. So let's go there. Are Christians called to tithe, or are we called to something greater?

Yeah, I'm really asking some tough questions to start this off. There are a few questions that can provoke a healthy debate like this one. But Christians throughout all the age have asked this question, and I recognize that they've come up with different answers. But for me, as I read both the Old Testament and the New Testament in my Bible, I can't help but conclude that tithing, specifically the requirement of 10%, is not a calling for Christians. And I know that some listeners are going to be thinking, whoo, I'm finally off the hook, I don't have to give.

No, that's not the response that we want to have either. We aren't obligated to give. Christians see giving as an incredible gospel opportunity. So in a sense, we're called to something much greater than tithing. We're called to live our lives generously, humbly, selflessly, and with an eye and mind on the kingdom of God. Yeah, that's helpful. So how then should the gospel transform our hearts, our minds, and even our approach to managing money?

I love that question. There's an old phrase that's often attributed to Martin Luther, the great reformer. Whether he said it or not doesn't matter as much as the content is just so true. And the quote says that there are three conversions in one's life, the conversion of the heart, the conversion of the mind, and the conversion of their pocketbook. And I think it was Spurgeon who later added that it was often the pocketbook that was the most difficult for conversion.

And while I laugh at that, and we may be laughing when we hear those quotes, they should still cause us to pause and think. When we encounter Christ and put our faith in Him, we experience a conversion of our heart. Our hearts are filled with the affections for Jesus.

We desire to serve Him. A heart of stone is replaced with that heart of flesh. We experience a conversion of mind, one that no longer thinks of the things of this world, but is thinking heavenward as we read in Colossians. And if those things are true, spoiler alert, they are true, then all aspects of our lives experience conversion. And yet in my experience, I've seen how people submit their lives to Christ while keeping their finances to themselves. So on one hand they hold out Christ, and on the other hand they hold their finances out as far as they can away from it. And I think it was Spurgeon, again, to quote him, he said something along the lines of that you can't hold on to Christ while also holding on to your money. So if the gospel transforms your mind, then your thinking isn't just on your wealth, it's on Christ. If the gospel transforms your heart, then your affections aren't for wealth, they're for Christ. So that gospel transformation that we experience when we come to Christ informs the way that we view money, steward it, save it, spend it.

And yes, it informs even the way that we give it. Oh, that's powerful. What a picture of what our life should look like as a steward, a money manager of the King of Kings.

Well, we've just scratched the surface, so we're going to have to have you back. But Dr. Harris, thanks for stopping by today. Yeah, thanks so much. That's Dr. Nathan Harris, author of A Short Guide to Gospel Generosity Giving as an Act of Grace. Pick it up wherever you buy books. Your calls are next, 800-525-7000.

We'll be right back. Every day we hear life-changing stories from listeners just like you who see money and possessions as tools to invite more people into God's kingdom. Instead of chasing wealth, you've chosen to embrace God as your source of love and provision.

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But we also want to be reverent as we approach the Scriptures, really understanding that it is the counsel of God's Word that is the source of truth. So let's pull out those principles and apply them to the practical decisions and choices you're making today, and whatever aspect of your financial life you're thinking about. Perhaps it's staying on budget and building a spending plan. Maybe it's your long-term investments. Maybe it's getting that credit score up or paying off credit card debt once and for all. Maybe you're struggling with where the real estate market is and whether you should refinance or whether this is a time to buy a house.

Perhaps it's giving. Any of those topics and more in play today. Again, the number to call 800-525-7000. We have lines open and you can call right now.

Let's go to Illinois. Hi Carolyn. How can I help you?

Hi. The reason for my call, it's I guess it's sort of a two-part question, but I also wanted to express when I went to the bank, I was offered an opportunity to have a HELOC. I don't need it, but they have a promotion going and there are no fees and this and that. But one of the things that I want to point out is that when I was going through the paperwork, it was because of this program that I was able to understand much better what I was reading and go back today and ask questions. I was able to ask questions about the index in terms of what you're going to pay in interest, the index and then the margin that they add on and then the ACR and all those things were very clear to me in terms of being able to ask intelligent questions and understand what they were saying. So I just wanted to let you know that it was because I listened to this program that I was able to comprehend that. I'm so glad to hear that. That's great. Well, I'm delighted we could have been a resource for you. It's always helpful when you go in somewhere and you have a little bit of a knowledge base to build on and ask the right questions.

So that that thrills me to know Ann Carolyn. Well, specifically related to that HELOC, what are you thinking about? Okay. Well, again, I don't need the thing and they were offering it.

And if you have anything that you want to say about them, that's fine. The nature of my question was that I noticed with this HELOC and I've noticed in the past, like for instance, if you're buying a car, when they do a hard check on your credit, what they come back with seems to be significantly different than what the consumer products offer. So for example, I never fall below 800 when I'm checking online. But for example, today Equifax showed 780 when the information that I got in the mail from the bank.

Now, when I go online and with the consumer resources and I check Equifax, it says 804. And even if you do a hard check, generally, you know, it's not going to be a 20 plus spread difference, and it wouldn't bounce back that quickly. So my initial question is, is why is there such a significant difference between what the consumer has access to versus the, you know, corporate or whatever?

Yeah, it's a great question. And you're exactly right, they can vary pretty significantly. And it comes down to the difference between consumers and lenders using different formulas that weight information differently. So for example, lenders may use different versions of a FICO score that's industry specific for certain types of loans. And so that means it's a different algorithm. And it places weight on different factors versus the consumer version of that that might use a completely different formula that results in a higher score. So they should be of course, in the ballpark. But it's not unusual for them to be different by any means. And that's why a lender is always going to want to pull their own credit report, even if you were to say, hey, I just pulled this the other day, here it is, they're not going to accept it, because they want to run it through their own formulas, because they know that they're using certain, you know, formulas with certain weightings for a specific type of loan that you're seeking.

So that's usually the difference there. With regard to that HELOC, you know, some folks will say, well, I ought to go ahead and get it, even if I'm not going to use it, because what if I needed into the future, and I couldn't qualify for it. And as long as I don't borrow against it, I'm not having to pay anything. And I would just challenge that a little bit, even if there's not upfront fees, which usually there are some costs, closing costs, and so forth. But even if they're saying, listen, we won't charge any of that, then often there are other expenses, there might be an inactivity charge, there may be, you know, other kind of monthly charges that they impose upon you, that, you know, will cost you something over time, you also have the impact to your credit, because that's another loan that's outstanding, even if you're not using it, that's credit that's available to you, which will be factored in. So I think I would just make sure you have a purpose for it. And if you don't, I'd probably be inclined not to, there might be some that would say, as long as there's no fees, and you'd want to double check that, that it's worth getting just to have access to it, if you needed it down the road, I would probably opt not to.

The last reason is often there's a temptation to use it because it's there, even when you don't really need it. So anyway, I hope those things are helpful. Thanks for your kind remarks about the program, Carolyn. We appreciate you being on today. All right, let's go to Wisconsin. Gary, how can I serve you?

Hey, how you doing? I got about four years left on a 2.9% mortgage, $17,000 left, a good percentage. But I was wondering your opinion, if I should sell some gold being as high as it is at $2,700 an ounce, to just pay this off and not have any more debt?

Hmm, yeah. Well, I can't tell you whether or not to sell gold or not, because I have no idea where gold is going. And I'd rather you own gold because it's the right fit for your portfolio, you've got the right percentage allocation. And it's there as a long term holding because, you know, a part of a properly diversified portfolio means we have assets that are uncorrelated with one another. So in times of strength, certain assets are doing well, others are doing poorly, could be that we hit a recession and gold continues, it may go down from here.

Anybody who would tell you they know which direction it's headed from here would not be being truthful. At the same time, you're right, gold is, you know, hitting, bumping up against an all time high, you know, here we are north of $2,700 an ounce. My first question to you is what percent of your overall investments, Gary, are in gold currently? Let's see, probably about 30. Okay.

Yeah. So that would be a little higher than we typically recommend. I mean, I would say, you know, typically, you'd want to stay around 10%. Now you've been rewarded handsomely for having that kind of allocation. And you may decide that's the appropriate allocation for you, I would say historically speaking, it's probably a little rich. Bottom line is you've got not a whole lot left on this mortgage for years to repay it.

If you've got some surplus, you could probably accelerate it beyond that. But given that really attractive interest rate less than 3%, I'd probably say, if anything, diversify out of gold and into the broad market, I'm not feeling really compelled to pay off the mortgage with the exception of if you really just feel a conviction from the Lord to be debt free, go for it and don't look back. Apart from that, you've got a really nice interest rate.

I'd see this, whether it's the gold or a diversification into stocks and bonds, as part of my long term investment strategy, I'd probably, if it was me, prioritize that over paying off the mortgage unless there's a conviction to do so. I hope that's helpful, Gary. Back with more after this. Stay with us. We're grateful for support from Timothy Plan. For more than 30 years, they've served clients on a biblically responsible journey to invest in a way that honors God and gives dignity to people's lives. More information is at timothyplan.com. The investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses are contained in the prospectus and summary prospectus available at timothyplan.com.

Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners LTD and ETFs distributed by Foresight Fund Services LLC. Well, it's so great to have you with us today on Faith in Finance. It looks like all the lines are full. We'll get to as many questions as we can today. Let's dive right back in.

We'll head out to Nebraska. Hi, Bobby, how can I help you? Oh, yes. I was wondering, I have a debt out there that's been set to collections. How can I, what would be a good way to consolidate all that so I can start getting that taken care of?

Yeah. Well, Bobby, I love that you want to try to get on top of this, get out from under that debt and hopefully establish some rhythms that keep you from getting back in this position. Let me ask you, what type of debt do you have?

Maybe you can just kind of give me a breakdown. Oh, I think one's an auto loan that was, it's been repoed. Another one, I think there might be a little bit of medical bills and then there's another one. So I had a bank account, I had a credit union.

You could overdraft on it up to like $500 and I don't know exactly how much I was over, but I didn't make the payments to get it back under and they sent that to collections and that's where I know of. I don't know if there's any other stuff out there or not. Okay. Any credit card debt to speak of? I did have a credit card through like the Buckle or something like that.

I think that might, maybe I was sent to because I know I never paid on that either. Okay. Yeah. Now tell me kind of where you're at just in, you know, from this point forward and as you look back in the recent past, I mean, do you feel like the challenges that got you in this situation in the first place and some of these accounts that were unpaid for a period of time and then went to collections and it sounds like you've had a repossession? I mean, has there been any kind of change in your financial management as of late?

Yeah. So back then I was, I was big into partying and addicted to drugs and I sold drugs and I went to prison for it. Well now I'm clean and sober. I don't do none of that kind of stuff.

I actually have money in my bank account. September, September 10th, 2021 was the biggest start of it. And that's when I gave my life to Jesus Christ. And now I'm just trying to get everything back in line and, or get everything to where it needs to be.

Man, to God be the glory, Bobby. That's incredible. I'm so thrilled to hear that you've invited Christ into your life as your savior and that you're sober and God has rescued you from that. And you're wanting to get back on track as a steward of God's resources. That's amazing.

So I'm just delighted to hear that. Here's what I'd love to do because I realize you want to honor these old debts. It sounds like you don't even know fully what's out there. I realized that was a season of your life where probably you don't recall everything that was going on and maybe don't realize what's still kind of hanging out there financially. So what we're probably going to want to do is pull a copy of your credit report or have you do that from each of the three credit bureaus, Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax. That will allow you to get a handle on what's actually owed because, you know, as you mentioned, a lot of these are probably not with the original creditor.

They've been sold to collection agencies and pulling those credit reports will be the best indication of what do you actually owe today and who owns the debt? Who do you actually owe it to? And that would allow you to make a list of those liabilities. And then I'd love for you to perhaps work with our friends at christiancreditcounselors.org.

They typically handle mainly credit card debt, but they could help you establish a single monthly payment that you could pay through them to each of these creditors. The key is I'd rather you not take out a new loan. I mean, you know, number one, the terms would be terrible because, you know, I imagine your credit is trashed and I'd rather you leave this right where it is. You know, these collection agencies, especially the medical debt, they're going to be very willing to work with you, especially given the situation.

But I don't want to take out a new loan in order to do that. I'd rather leave them right where they are and then have somebody help you negotiate a payment plan. And then if you could just make one monthly payment to Christian Credit Counselors, you know, they could pass it along for you. But before we do that, if you'd be open to it, I'd be happy just as our gift to you to connect you with one of our Certified Christian Financial Counselors. This would be somebody who's especially trained in this type of work and debt repayment and budgeted budgets.

You know, they really come at it from a biblical perspective. They could encourage you and pray with you, help you set up a plan to get it paid back. And we would cover the cost of it if you'd be willing to do it. And I think that could get you pointed in the right direction. And I think you'd feel a whole lot better if you know you're working towards something. Even if it's going to take some time, at least you'd have a plan and know that if you stick to it, we're eventually going to get all this cleaned up.

But how does that sound to you? Yeah, it sounds like a good idea. Thank you. Absolutely, Bobby. Happy to do it.

And I'm just delighted that the path God has you on and what he's doing in your life. So let's do this. You stay right there.

My team will pick up the line. We'll get your information. We'll get one of those Christian financial counselors in touch with you. Again, there'll be no cost.

They'll work with you virtually, either over the phone or, you know, a Zoom call and help you get all the pieces in place and get a plan moving forward. Let me just pray for you, and then we will get your information. Father, thank you for the chance to talk to Bobby today. Thank you for the testimony that he shared of how you have intervened miraculously and that, Lord, you extend to us the free gift of eternal life.

You're willing to come in and wash us clean as sinners and reconcile us to the Father through your shed blood on the cross. And, Lord, we celebrate today that Bobby made that decision to place his faith and trust in you, that, Lord, you've allowed him to get free from the addiction of substance and alcohol. We pray that that would continue to be the case, that he would be able to trust in you for that.

You'd walk alongside him, and that in this journey to get his financial stewardship in line, that you'd give him the wisdom and the, really, the diligence to put a plan in place and stick to it, and that he'd be able to celebrate as that comes to pass. So we just thank you today for who you are and for your love for us, and we ask all this in Christ's name. Amen. Bobby, God bless you, my friend. Thanks for being on the program today. All right, let's finish up in Alabama today.

Hi, Milton. Go ahead. Thank you. I got a question about refinancing my VA loan. I've been receiving phone calls from my current lender and others.

So last month, I tried to apply and see how it would have been if I tried different banks, and one of the banks that I wanted to get up along the tourney that my score wasn't high enough so that I shouldn't wait. Okay. So I would like to know your thoughts on that. Yes, sir. I appreciate that. What is your current interest rate on the existing loan?

7.25. Okay. Yeah, you're not at a place right now where you're going to save enough to justify it, because there are fees and expenses related to refinancing. And on top of that, with your credit score being low, is it below 650? Yes, that's what they told me.

Okay. Yeah, so you unfortunately are going to not only are rates still high, but you're going to have to pay a premium because of your credit score. And so you're not going to improve your situation by refinancing.

In fact, it'll probably get less desirable. So I would say stick with your current mortgage and let's focus on getting that credit score up, which means paying your bills on time, decreasing your credit utilization. So let's get your balances coming down. And don't go out looking for additional credit. And over time, that credit score will come up, and hopefully when it does, the interest rates will be lower and it'll be a good time to refinance.

So I'd sit tight, focus on getting that credit score up. Thanks for your call, Milton. God bless you. Hey, a big thanks to my team today. Grateful for Jim and Devin and Sandy. If you want to become a Faith Buy partner, do that at faithbuy.com and click give, and then come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye. Faith and Finance is provided by Faith Buy and listeners like you.