Have you heard about the change happening across the U.S.? If you have children, you no doubt want them to become faithful followers of Christ. So how exactly do you do that? Hi, I'm Rob West. Whenever you take on an important task, it's vital to have a plan. That's certainly true for raising faithful children. Brian Holtz is here today to help you actively disciple your children in a framework you may not have considered. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, our guest Brian Holtz joins us again today. Brian is the incoming CEO of one of our favorite ministries, Compass, finances God's way.
He's also the author of Financial Discipleship for Families, Intentionally Raising Faithful Children. Brian, great to have you back with us. Thanks, Rob. It's great to be with you again. Brian, you were here last month to talk about this book, and we were barely able to scratch the surface.
So perhaps we can pick up the discussion again. I know your goal is to help parents train their children as financial disciples. So let's define that. What is a financial disciple?
It's actually exactly what it sounds like. Financial simply meaning that it's relating to money and possessions. And we know a disciple is a person who learns and applies the teachings of Jesus. So a financial disciple is simply someone who learns, applies and multiplies the Bible's teachings on money and possessions. Now, you write that financial discipleship has five pillars. So why don't we walk through those today?
Sure. So the first is ownership. This is the realization that God owns it all. He doesn't just own the 10% of our modern tithe or even the 23 and a third percent of the Old Testament tithe. First Chronicles 29 11 tells us that everything in the heavens and earth is his. And Psalm 24 one says the earth is the Lord's and all it contains. He was, he is, and he always will be the owner of all things.
Next is surrender. So if it's all God's, then what's our part in this thing? Well, we're called to be stewards or managers. First Corinthians four two teaches us that is required of stewards that they be found faithful and being faithful means using all that's been entrusted to us to achieve his goals and to grow his kingdom rather than our own. Next, we come to choice.
Choice is where the rubber meets the road. This is about following through with our commitment to handle our finances God's way. My favorite teaching on this comes from Matthew 7 24 through 27. This is the parable the wise and foolish builders in this parable Jesus confronts us with our tendency to hear what he says, but not actually apply it. If we're to be wise builders, we have to actually do what he's instructed.
Next we go to multiplication. Once we've navigated these tough decisions and chosen to follow God's instruction, we have to share it with others. The Great Commission in Matthew 28 18 through 20 tells us to go and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to obey all that he's commanded. Jesus's vision for us is never to keep it to ourselves.
We have to put this lamp on a stand for the whole world to see. Finally is eternal focus and this is a return back to why we do this in the first place. We don't do it for the here and now. Life is so short and eternity is so long and scripture is clear that what we do here and now will impact our eternity forever. We need to stay focused on the eternal outcomes of our financial decisions here on Earth. Well, those are so important and I love that you've broken those spiritual components down to how we can really affect financial discipleship in our kids lives. But you also write about the importance of using practical opportunities.
Share a few of those with us. Absolutely. Practical opportunities are really about giving our kids and grandkids appropriate chances to put God's financial principles into practice. So for example, work and income. Have we given our children and grandchildren appropriate responsibilities and rewarded their efforts? Have we given them opportunities to give and to spend? Do our children and grandchildren have financial responsibilities and freedom to make decisions on how to use the money? Planning and budgeting. Have we taught them to count the cost of financial decisions, helping them realize that a decision to buy something today is truly a decision to not buy something tomorrow? And accounting for their finances. Do we walk alongside them, helping them remember the financial goals they had set and offering them wise counsel?
Studies show that up to 90% of learning is done through personal experience. So we need to give our kids and grandkids practical opportunities to apply God's financial principles. Oh, this is so good. I can't wait for our listeners to get a copy of this. Now, I understand you have a great way for them to do that, right?
Absolutely. They can buy financial discipleship for families on our website, compassone.org, the word compass, the number one dot org. And if you buy two or more, you get a 33% discount because we want people to read this with a friend, a coworker, anybody they can, because we're all about discipleship. That's great. Brian, thanks for stopping by. Thank you, Rob. That's Brian Holz with Compass Finances God's Way. Stick around. As 2023 comes to a close, we are thankful for the generous and faithful supporters of faith by who believe in the message of financial faithfulness found in God's word.
This season, we want to get back to you for your support. We'll send you the book leverage using temporal wealth for eternal gain for just a few more days. You can request your copy with your gift of any amount at faithby.com. Start the new year by aligning God's purposes with your finances. That's faithfi.com. Welcome back.
This is Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls today. 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. By the way, you don't have to call. Just send an email, askrob at faithfi.com.
That's askrob at faith, the letters fi.com. To Birmingham. Hey, Matt, go ahead. Hey, I am 66, almost 66 and a half. I'm looking at retiring in the end of 2024 at 67 and a half. I have a mortgage that I owe about 161, $161,000 on. And I have all my bases covered, but I have an account that I have about $127,000 in that I am planning to use to pay off the house at the end of 2024. And my question is, I got into debate with some people, my house mortgage is at 3.5% interest rate and the 127,000 has gone almost 5%, well, 4.30.
Yeah. So I'm trying to each month make sure I get $1,500 of principal towards the house and $1,500 going into the savings account. Is that the way I should do it or should I just put a whole bunch on the house or put it all in savings?
Yeah, you know, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. And I don't think this is purely a math equation either, you know, because there's some there's more to you paying off your house than just whether or not you can make more money elsewhere. There's the peace of mind. There's the ability to be completely unencumbered, which gives you more flexibility to follow the leading of the Lord. There's, you know, less need than for income, which might free you up to do some things you might not otherwise do. You may have a conviction from the Lord to be debt free. And if so, I wouldn't look back, I would follow that conviction.
Now, if you're saying no, I feel like you know, I don't feel like the Lord is telling me to get out of debt. I just want to do the thing that makes the most sense on paper. And I want to kind of push these non financial considerations aside. Well, then certainly you could make the case that, you know, you're making a little bit more outside of that in essentially a risk free investment. I mean, you will have to factor in the taxes on that interest.
And you make it may end up being a wash or close to it. And then in that case, I would probably just go and pay off the house and be done with it. But keep in mind, these interest rates where they are aren't going to last forever on CDs and high yield savings.
Because as the economy slows and stalls, eventually the feds going to have to lower rates and then they won't be available any longer. So at that point, you probably certainly would. Now, some will say, well, you should go invest this money in the stock market. And over, you know, a five or 10 year period, you should by far outperform that interest on the home.
And I would say, yeah, in a typical decade, you should if you, you know, choose high quality investments, and you have the right strategy, but a you're adding risk to the equation. And B, you know, you're potentially missing the non financial piece of this equation, which are the items I mentioned a moment ago, but give me your thoughts on all that. I like the way you think I didn't think about the tax ramifications on the interest. I am debt free others or we are my wife and I, other than the house. So yeah, I feel very, very strong and adamant about we're not retiring until the house is paid off. Zero debt. Well, then I think you've got your answer, despite what your friends and your brother in law and everybody else say.
I'm joking there and it may not be your brother in law, but despite what anybody else says, I think you've got your answer there, Matt. And here's what I can tell you. And all the time, the years I've been doing this and the thousands of calls that I've taken, I've never had anybody that called me and said I paid off my house last year and I've regretted it ever since.
Never once. So you go do that. Focus on paying off that house and then go find God's calling for the next chapter of your life. All right. Amen. Thank you. All right. God bless you. Audrea, thank you for calling.
How can I help? Yes, I was just calling to, I'm going into a new chapter in my life. My son is going off to college. He's 18 in November. I'm a single mom, teacher, been teaching for 27 years and want to retire at some point. But I'm trying to figure out, I've got a new, less income coming in November when he turns 18. His grandfather's helped me through the years. And so he's not going to be paying after November.
My son will be moving out. But I'm trying to figure out, I've got about $10,000 in credit card debt and I know that's not horrible, but I just don't want to continue with the same pattern and continue going higher. So I'm trying to figure out what to do. Should I take the credit card offer or put it back in like at a home equity line?
I don't know how to work it. Sure. No, I'm so glad you did. And I think it's really important to go into this next season with a plan.
And I totally agree. I'd love for you to be out from under that just so that lessens the burden on your monthly finances, but also just get out from under that interest, especially now with the average credit card interest rate north of 20%. This is going to add a lot in the way of interest. My preferred approach on this, Audrea, is what's called debt management. So generally, the rule of thumb is if you have less than $4,000 in total credit card debt, you can probably just do it yourself and what I call snowballing the debt. It's a pretty common term, but essentially means you line them up from smallest to largest balance, cut back wherever you can to free up as much margin each month as possible. And I realize, you know, that's not easy to do on a limited income, but you try to free up, let's say a couple $100 a month, whatever you can, you pay the minimums on all of them. And then you start with the smallest balance and go smallest to largest.
And the thing that really makes that so effective is when you start with those smaller balances, you can usually knock off one or two of them in a few months or less than a year, which gives you the motivation to keep going. And the best plan is the plan that you'll ultimately complete and get out of debt once and for all. But when you get beyond $4,000, it becomes problematic and costly to do it, especially with these high interest rates. So debt management is the way I would go then. And essentially what happens is there are pre-negotiated lower interest rates through what's called a credit counseling program or debt management. So every creditor has their credit counseling rate, and it's going to be something significantly lower than today. You might be paying 20 now, and in credit counseling, you might get eight or nine or 11% interest. So what happens is you pay one monthly payment, probably around 3% of the total balance, about $300 a month, to the credit counseling agency, and then they distribute it to your creditors. So they don't pay off the debt with a new loan or anything like that.
It stays right where it is. But with the combination of this level monthly payment every month and these reduced interest rates, it allows you to get out of debt on average 80% faster. And our friends at christiancreditcounselors.org have worked with hundreds and hundreds of our listeners, Adrea, and we've never had anybody say it wasn't a great experience. I mean, they're believers, they'll help you with your budget, and they'll get you set up on the program, and then you just make that one payment every month. And then once you're out of debt, the key is to keep your lifestyle right where it is, and then redirect that money to other priorities aligned with your values. Does that make sense, though? It does, but I've got it all with one credit card, and it's at a pretty good rate.
It's just that I don't make enough to, like if I'm kind of like a month behind in income. What is that interest rate? It's at 11. Okay, and is that temporary or is that permanent? It's been permanent.
I mean, it's gone up some since, you know, everything's gone up, but it's not near as high as others. Yeah, I would check with them to see if you could get it down. If not, then you could just leave it right there. And then the key is just to try to keep your expenses as low as possible. Let's do this. I've got to take a quick break, but you and I will finish up off the air.
We'll be right back. My grocery bill went up 11% this year. Gas, utilities, rent all went up, but my paycheck the same. I also pay for my own health care, a huge expense. A friend recommended Christian Health Care Ministries as an option to insurance and CHM helps pay for medical needs while allowing some breathing room in my budget. Open enrollment is here, so make the switch today with potential cost savings up to 40% Christian Health Care Ministries at CHMinistries.org faith buy. We're grateful for support from Movement Mortgage, who provides residential home loans in all 50 states guided by a mission to love and value people and a goal to redefine the mortgage process. Movement seeks to help others achieve their financial goals. You can find out more at movement.com slash faith movement mortgage LLC supports equal housing opportunity and MLS number 39179.
For licensing information, please visit in MLS consumer access.org. Welcome back to faith and finance. I'm your host Rob West.
The number to call is 800-525-7000. I'm looking forward to hearing from you as we take your calls and questions from across the country. In fact, let's head out to Missouri. Hi, David. Go ahead.
Sure. The company I work for was just recently sold and so I have a 401k that I have a few options. I can roll it over into the new company's 401k. I can roll it over to an IRA or I can take the money with the penalties. I don't want to take the money with the penalties, but my question was whether or not the IRA is a better choice or the 401k. Yeah, it's a good question. How much is in that 401k, do you know? About $140,000.
Okay, yeah, so it's a significant sum. You could do either. I kind of like the idea with that amount of money of rolling it to an IRA, it gives you a lot more flexibility in the investments that are selected, but I would probably use an advisor to manage it just because it is a lot of money and having somebody that really has the time and expertise to build and manage the portfolio based on your values and goals I think would be great. Do you have an advisor that you've worked with in the past?
I don't and listening to your show, you've talked about the Kingdom Builders and I saw I will approach it that way. Yeah, I mean it's a certified kingdom advisor, a CKA and there's about 1400 of them around the country and so you could go to our website, faithfi.com, click find a CKA and I'd interview two or three. That would be one option and again that's going to give you the most flexibility in terms of how the portfolio is built because essentially you can invest in anything and through a self-directed IRA you could even invest it in real estate or any number of asset classes. But even if you just want a traditional stock and bond portfolio, then this person could manage it for you. The other option is the more simple approach which is just roll it into that 401k with your new employer and then just put it into whatever the menu of choices you would have selected or you will select for your new contributions moving forward. And once you're ready to retire and separate from the company, then you could roll the whole thing out and get an advisor at that point.
But I think you've got enough built up that it's probably worth considering going ahead and getting an advisor right now and then perhaps you could do some retirement planning at the same time. Okay, that'd be great. Yeah, cool.
Faithfi.com, just click find a CKA. David, thank you for calling. To Plainfield, Illinois, hi Agnes, go ahead.
Yes, thank you. First of all, what is your take on missing a car or buying a car? My daughter has just graduated and I've always thought of buying a car not losing. So she agreed to it, but the thing is that the high interest rate is going to drag her. So, and I have some money I put aside for a car, but now I don't need to buy a car anymore. So I wanted to use it to buy the car for her and then whatever she can pay monthly instead of paying it to somebody else with high interest rate, she can send it to me. And even if she doesn't want to send it, that's fine.
But my question is, how do I do it? Do I buy the car in my name and her name or I buy it in my name or in her name? So what is your best thought about that?
Yeah, how do you want this to be structured when it's all said and done? You want her eventually to be the owner of the car. You just want her to be able to pay you, essentially buy it from you with you being the financing for it and then charge her a more reasonable interest rate, is that right? Yeah, she can pay whatever she can pay just so because the high interest rate that gave it to her and I would drag her.
And I don't want to, she's a fresh star. She just finished school, she had a job, but I would just want to help her. And then do I buy the car in my name or buy it with her name and then eventually transfer it to her or what do you suggest?
Yeah, very good. So yeah, I think if you're wanting to purchase it and then let her buy it over time, typically what you would do is you would purchase the car and then essentially you would enter in an agreement with her to sell it to her. But you would do owner financing where you have a written agreement between the two of you, you have a fixed repayment schedule and a minimum interest rate. And the IRS publishes the acceptable interest rate.
So you'd want to work with probably your CPA to put all of that in place. And then eventually she would pay you those monthly payments based on that repayment schedule that you come up with. And then eventually she'd own the car and take title to it, but until then it would be yours and then she would have to pay you out.
The only consideration there is just the potential for the relational damage if she got into a place where she couldn't afford to pay it anymore. But it sounds like, Agnes, that you're willing to give this to her if you had to, or if she was unable to pay, you would be okay with that. Is that right?
Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, I'm okay with that, but do I have to go into all these contracts, this funding and everything? That's fine. If you can't pay in the future, that's fine. Yeah, I mean otherwise you'd make it a gift to her and then you'd have to let the IRS know that you did that. And it's not taxable, but it would be a gift because if you're just giving her an asset that you purchased or you're not charging the minimum interest rate that they expect for a loan, then they're going to consider that a gift and you're going to need to tell them that you're making the gift.
And so that's why it's better for you to go ahead and buy it. Now you're the owner and then you come up with a written agreement and a fixed repayment schedule and a minimum interest rate that fits her budget, but that's more reasonable than she'd get on the open market right now with conventional rates being higher. So what I would probably do is contact the CPA, a certified public accountant, let them know what you're trying to do and they can help you come up with that agreement, the fixed payment schedule. They'll tell you what the minimum interest rate is and then you could essentially buy the car and then sell it to your daughter over time, but do it in a way that fits within her budget.
Just recognize that whenever you become a lender, it changes the relationship, so you just want to be careful with that. Thanks for your call. To Waterford, Michigan.
Hi Paul, go ahead. Hi, I'm calling about a cemetery plot that I purchased back in the early mid 80s. I wondered, I want to sell it and I'm wondering, do I have to pay capital gain tax or would that be just under income, like under a regular income tax? Are you selling it for more than you paid for it?
Yes. Yeah, so that would be considered a capital asset and so it would go on your tax return as a capital gain. I talked to your CPA about that.
That would be reported on Schedule D as a capital gain on your 1040. Okay, thank you. All right. Thanks for your call, Paul. We appreciate it. I hope you'll make plans to join us again next time for another edition of Faith and Finance. Faith and Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
