This faith in finance podcast is underwritten in part by Guidestone. Guidestone envisions a world transformed by Christian investing. Through screening, corporate engagement, and impact investing, our investment strategies allow investors to be more proactive with their investment dollars to make a meaningful difference in the world while preparing for their financial future.
Learn more at guidestonefunds.com slash faith. Happy Valentine's Day. Have you gotten that special someone a bunch of flowers, box of candy, or a balloon or two? Hi, I'm Rob West.
Valentine's Day can be a great time to express love to your spouse or sweetheart, but do you always need to spend money to do it? Dr. Gary Chapman joins us today to talk about love and money. Then it's onto your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, our guest, Dr. Gary Chapman is certainly well known. He's the bestselling author of the five love languages. And now you're speaking my language. Dr. Chapman, great to have you back with us. Well, thank you, Rob.
It's good to be with you. And a very appropriate day given the subject matter you write on very frequently. Let me ask you, how should the five love languages play into gift giving at Valentine's Day? Well, I think for one thing, you need to know whether or not your spouse's love language is gifts. If it is, you best do it well.
But if it's not their primary, it's not as important. But I think because it's a national holiday celebrating love, I wouldn't let it pass by if I were you in a marriage without doing something to express love on Valentine's Day. The other thing I would say, Rob, don't be disappointed if you do something really, you think it's just really exciting. And your spouse doesn't have the response you want them to have. Because if gifts is not their love language, they may not respond as happily as you think they should respond. Don't be disappointed and don't criticize them for that. Yeah, especially if you're a gift giver, that's your love language personally, you might expect them to reciprocate.
But if it's not, you're not going to get the same result, right? That's exactly right. That's great. Now in your work as a pastor and a counselor, Dr. Chapman, how often do you see money become a challenge in marriage, even an obstacle to healthy communication? Well, you know, a lot of research indicates that differences over money is one of the biggest conflicts we have in a relationship. And I found that too in my own marriage and in the early days of our marriage, it was one of those things. Of course, we didn't have any money when we first got married. But we still had problems on what to do with what little we had.
But yeah, I think through the years, I've counseled a lot of people for whom that was a problem. You know, one that I remember was pretty huge. When they got married, you know, her preference was to live in an apartment for several years and save up money to buy, you know, a larger house that they would really like to have. Now, his idea was get the big house now. Those things are going to be much more expensive two or three years from now.
Yes. Well, she finally acquiesced, you know, and went with that and they bought the big house and they're back in my office now two years after they bought the house. And she's saying, Dr. Chapman, we got rooms we don't even have furniture in. And she said, the other thing is, I haven't bought a new dress in two years. Yeah, I can't buy anything. I just feel like we're strapped because we bought this house. You know, I had to help them think through, you know, what's more important, your relationship or the house you live in? Yeah. And I reminded Jesus said, life's meaning is not found in the things that we possess. Life's meaning is found in relationships, first of all, with God, and then with each other.
That's so good. And so often, Dr. Chapman, you know, we come from obviously different backgrounds, money was handled differently, one might come where money was plentiful, the other family that struggled financially, that plays into it as well, doesn't it? Absolutely. You know, our background and what we experienced growing up, as well as our personality, you know, because some people are savers, and some people are spenders. And, you know, we all have different personalities, different concepts.
Listen, you will never marry someone that you don't have conflicts with. For one reason, God made us. And God doesn't make any two things alike.
We're told every snowflake is different. Yes, the person you marry is gonna be different. So yeah, we're gonna have conflicts over money, as well as a lot of other things in life. We have to learn how to solve those conflicts without arguing and trying to put the other person down and demean the other person.
Yeah, so important. Well, when we come back from our first break here today, we'll give you some thoughts. Dr. Chapman will give you some thoughts on how do you find that common ground? What are some of the keys to working together to have that growing marriage? And then specifically, what facilitates healthy communication around money in marriage? Well, here on Valentine's Day, we're talking money and marriage with Dr. Gary Chapman. We'll continue to talk about the love languages as well. There's five of them.
Do you know your spouse's love language? You need to. Dr. Chapman will unpack those for you a bit as well. We're celebrating Valentine's Day here on Faith and Finance with Dr. Gary Chapman, and we have much more to come just around the corner.
So don't go anywhere. We will be right back. As a faithful listener of this program, you know that there's life-changing financial wisdom in God's Word, and Faithfi is here to help you and millions of others learn to be good and faithful stewards. As a nonprofit organization, we rely on help from monthly Faithfi patrons, supporters of this mission, to help us continue and expand our outreach. Has God provided financial answers for you through this ministry? If so, consider becoming a monthly Faithfi patron. Visit faithfi.com and click Give. Have you downloaded the Faithfi app yet? You need to do that today because this is going to make your life easier. Yes, you can manage your money through the in-app envelope feature, but also plan out future goals.
I want to buy a house in five years and I'm on track to do that. Here's also what I like. You can connect with people around the country. It's like social media, but better. Ask a question, get an answer, and share what you're learning about money and investing.
So why don't you grab your phone right now and download the Faithfi app? Great to have you with us today on faith and finance. It's Valentine's Day and we're celebrating that with our good friend, Dr. Gary Chapman. He's the author of the five love languages. And now you're speaking my love language among many other books. In fact, Dr. Chapman, we were talking before the program today, your latest book just came out. I'm incredibly excited about it.
Share that with our listeners. Yeah, it's applying the five love languages to adopted children. It's the title is Loving Adopted Children Well. We think it's going to anerote it with a co-author who has two adopted children and who teaches at Liberty University in the counseling department. So we're excited about this book. Very good. Well, it's going to be a great resource.
I know for a lot of folks. Well, we talked before the break, Dr. Chapman, about the differences that we each bring as a married couple to the marriage relationship. In one of your books, you're speaking my love language. You write about the importance of couples identifying their differences and you make the comparison of coach versus first class thinkers.
Tell us what those are and how they cause challenges. I don't know. How about you fly, Rob? But you know, there's a difference in coach and first class.
Yes, there is. And so people have those ideas. You know, first class thinkers, they always want the best of everything. You know, the best shirt, the best dress, the most expensive, whatever, you know, whereas the coach who thinks like, you know, sitting in a coach, they're thinking, looking for a bargain. You know, the difference often arises when they're buying a car. You know, one of them wants all the things that I can get on this car.
The other is looking for simplicity and a little less price. Yes. So, you know, understanding the fact that we do have these different concepts in terms of marriage is very, very important as we focus on making money an asset to our marriage rather than a liability.
Yes. Now, the goal I would imagine is not to make a coach thinker a first class thinker and vice versa. And if it's not about changing our spouse, what is the key to finding common ground? Well, I think they have to come to first of all, understand the fact that it's okay for us to have different perspectives on this. But remember, we're a team. So we want to hear each other out and we want to focus on, okay, we're going to have different opinions.
Now let's, let's hear it out. You see, I remember one, a couple, uh, you know, he, he, before they got married, oh, he'd take her out to these nice meals and all this kind of stuff. And she thought, man, this is wonderful. This guy really loves me.
You know, it was okay. You know, after they got married, he would take her out to a restaurant and she would always order the cheapest thing on the menu. And one time he said to her, I don't understand it. And why do you always order the cheapest thing on the menu? And she said, well, I just want to save us some money.
You know, she's the, she's thinking coach, you know, save us some money. He said, yeah, but you make me feel like, you know, that I can't afford to buy you a good meal. He said, I want to buy you a good meal. So she called the waiter and said, waiter, change mind.
I want the filet mignon. He got his wish, but you see, she didn't understand that her ordering the cheapest thing on the menu was not an asset for him. It was a negative for him. It was like, you know, she feels like I can't support her. I can't give her something nice. You know, once she found out that she changed her mind and got the filet.
That's right. And had a great meal. Well, communication is obviously critical when it comes to any facet of our marriage, but that certainly includes this area of money. So what have you found in your years of counseling couples as some of the keys to healthy communication, specifically in this area of money management? You know, I think the first thing is to learn to listen to each other.
As we've said already, we're going to have conflicts over money and other things, but learn to listen. And what I mean by listening is not just, you know, sitting there while they talk, thinking about what you're going to say. Put yourself in their shoes. Realize they have a different background from you. They have different perspectives.
Let them share their thoughts and you try to look at the world through their eyes so that you can honestly say and ask questions if you need to. You can honestly say, you know, honey, I can see how you would think that way. I can see how that makes sense.
Now let me tell you where I'm coming from. And then you share your side and if they will listen to you and ask you questions to clarify, they can honestly say to you, well, you know, honey, yeah, I see where you're coming from and I can see how that makes sense. Now, how can we solve the problem? Because we're on the same team. We don't want to win an argument. You win an argument, your spouse lost.
It's no fun to live with a loser. Why would you create one? You know, so be different. Allow it to be different.
But then now how can we solve the problem? And you look for something in the middle, you know, that maybe you can both agree on or maybe one of you will go to the other side. And so, you know, I think in this situation, I think, I think let's go with your idea.
Yeah, that's very good. You know, when we talk about money management on this program, we say it's important to start with your values and priorities. You know, where is God taking us as a couple? And how can money be a tool to accomplish that? How important is it for couples to have common priorities and goals when it comes to managing their finances?
It's very, very helpful. In fact, I encourage couples to do that before they get married. It's just that I don't talk about, you know, what do you feel about, for example, you feel about giving, you know, if one of you grew up and you've always tied, give 10% of your money to God, and the other one didn't do that, you better discuss that before you get married, you know, let's decide what we're going to do. The more we get on the same page before we get married, the more likely we can follow that plan and pattern. But if you didn't do it before you get married, then you've got to do it somewhere along the line. Are you going to be battling over these things, you know, week after week?
Yeah, very helpful. Let's talk for just a moment about the five love languages, of course, words of affirmation, quality time, gifts, acts of service, and physical touch. We've talked about gift giving in light of Valentine's Day, regardless of whether your spouse is a gift giver, and that's their love language, you better have a gift ready by the end of the day today. But apart from Valentine's Day, Dr. Chapman, how should couples think about the five love languages, specifically in light of reconciling their differences about managing money? Well, I think if people learn each other's primary love language, and they speak it on a regular basis, and then drop the others in, you know, just for cherries on top of the ice cream, I think they create an emotional climate in which it's going to be easier to handle their conflicts. Because when you feel loved by the other person, you know, they're there for you. And you have that emotional sense of feeling loved. It creates a positive climate so that we can do what I suggested earlier, listen to each other empathetically, and put ourselves in their shoes, and then focus on solving the difference, rather than trying to win an argument with our spouse. So I think understanding the love languages and speaking their primary love language makes a huge difference in terms of solving conflicts about money. That's well said.
Well, we're about out of time, just about 30 seconds left. What message do you want to leave with couples on this Valentine's Day? Well, I'd say make the most of today, you know, do something, do something, but don't let it be the only time that you express love to them. And gifts is not the only way to express love.
Get your spouse's love language down, heavy doses of that, sprinkle in the others for extra credit, you're going to have a growing marriage. I love it. Dr. Chapman, always appreciate our time with you, sir. Thanks for stopping by. Thank you, Rob. Good to be with you. All right.
That's Dr. Gary Chapman. He's the author of The Five Love Languages and the author of Now You're Speaking My Language. Hey, it's probably too late for you still to get that reservation at your favorite restaurant, but it's probably not too late to go down to your bookstore and pick up Now You're Speaking My Language. So if you don't have a gift, maybe I just fixed that for you today and you can make it a great Valentine's Day. All right. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we'll take your questions at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey, helping you apply God's wisdom to the practical decisions you're making today.
We'll be right back. We're grateful for support from Eventide Investments on the Faith and Finance Program. Eventide's approach to values-based investing is grounded in the belief that humankind was created in the image of God with intrinsic dignity, value, and worth. Eventide calls this investing that makes the world rejoice. More information is available at eventideinvestments.com.
That's eventideinvestments.com. We're back. I'm Rob West, and this is Faith and Finance. Thanks for listening today. Thanks for taking the time. As we head into our calls and questions, I want to take a moment to ask you if you've downloaded the FaithFi app.
You can use it on your desktop or your mobile device. All right, let's head to the phones. By the way, if you have a question, just call 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.
To Nashville, Tennessee. Hi, Kevin. How can I help, sir? Hi, Rob. Thanks for talking to me. I'm looking at making a career change, and I've always enjoyed, you know, I've been pretty good with my money, and I've always enjoyed financial stuff. And so I was just wondering if you could give me some advice as to which career path I might pursue for someone looking for a career change.
Yeah, it's great. I love the fact that you're dialing into your interests and passions, how God has wired you. Certainly, there's a lot of need for folks to help those who have been entrusted with, you know, wealth, whether that's a significant amount or a more modest amount. We all want to be good and faithful stewards and wise counsels to keep part of that. You know, I think the first question is, you know, figuring out exactly what your interests are. Are you wanting to, you know, help folks and coach them in things like, you know, putting a spending plan together, getting out of debt, perhaps relational issues, more of the personal finance for the everyday steward? Or are you looking to perhaps get into more of the professional financial advice that would be in the area of comprehensive financial planning, perhaps investments or wealth management, that type of thing? Do you have a sense of which direction you'd like to go? If I can give this answer kind of a bit of both, I enjoy, you know, direct instruction with people like I don't, I don't have much of an interest in like selling a product. But if I could advise people as to, you know, better ways to manage their money, that kind of interests me. But I wouldn't rule out like some of the, I think it's the corporate aspects of money management.
Yeah, sure. Well, a couple of things I might suggest for you just to maybe do what we call low cost probes, where you might kind of take a peek into the various kind of worlds in biblical finance and figure out what is most aligned with what you'd like to do. One is what we do here at Kingdom Advisors, which is, you know, you could find a local study group there in Nashville, which is a group of financial professionals that meet in cities across the US and Canada every month using our content here at Kingdom Advisors as the backdrop to a meeting to talk about how you begin to implement your faith into your financial practice that would allow you to rub shoulders with the other Christian financial advisors there in your city.
There's no cost to attend. And you could find a local study group at kingdomadvisors.com. The designation that we offer certified Kingdom Advisor, you could, you know, begin to explore that, although it does have an experience requirement that you would not be able to meet early on. So I think one of the other opportunities would be to see if you could connect with some of those Christian advisors there in Nashville, and there's some great ones, and see if they might have an entry level position that would allow you to come in and, you know, begin to learn the business while you're studying to earn and what I would recommend is the certified financial planner and the certified Kingdom Advisor. Now, these are pretty big commitments just in terms of the time that you would have to put in to earn those designations, but those would really give you, you know, the training and the skill set you need to begin over time to do comprehensive financial advice at a professional level, and then the CKA would allow you to bring in the biblical worldview.
But you'd probably want to find a local advisor who's a believer that you could, you know, come in and get started with there in your city. The other approach is something called a certified Christian financial counselor. It's issued by the Institute for Christian Financial Health and, you know, this would be a great place for you to start there as well. It's a fairly new certification, but it's one we're really excited about and it would give you really kind of the basics, the training that you need to begin to help people with their finances and get paid to do so. Again, it's called the certified Christian financial counselor designation, and if you wanted to explore some of the businesses that others have set up after earning the certified Christian financial counselor, just head to our website at faithfi.com. That's faithfi.com forward slash cert cfc. That's cert, short for certification, c-e-r-t c-f-c. And you'll see a listing of the first dozen or so certified Christian financial counselors that we have on our site, and you could click into each of their own websites and begin to learn kind of what services they offer, how they charge for it, that type of thing.
And if it began to really resonate with you around, wow, I think this is something I might want to do, then the certified Christian financial counselor certification may be a great starting place for you. All right. That's great advice. Thanks so much, Rob. All right, Kevin. God bless you, my friend. Thanks for being on the program today. We appreciate it.
Let's head to Pennsylvania. Hi, Steve. Thanks for calling, sir. Go ahead. Good. Thanks for taking my call. I just was forced to retire.
I'm trying to figure some things out. I have a 401k about $40,000. I have a car debt.
What's left on it is $7,000. Is there a way to withdraw slowly from the 401k and not have it being counted as income? Because that would also affect my, if my income goes up, my benefits from the state for insurance go down. Is there a way to withdraw from the 401k to avoid that being counted as income? Yeah, there really isn't. Are you still working with this employer? No. Okay.
Yeah. Any money, although when you get beyond 59 and a half, there's not going to be any penalty, any money that comes out as a distribution will be added to your taxable income for the year. I mean, the only way around that would have been while you were still working, you could have considered borrowing from your 401k and then you'd pay it back. Although that's not a deal because you're paying it back with after tax dollars, even though you're paying interest to yourself and it's being deposited to the account. I'm not a big fan, but that would have been a way to do that without it being taxable. But once you separate from employment, you don't have that option either.
So there really isn't a way to get it out for anything other than creating a taxable event. What is your age, Steve, if you don't mind me asking? 63. 63. Okay.
Yeah. Once you get over 70, we could roll it to an IRA and if you had money you were contributing to your church or to a ministry out of savings or your checking account, you could replace that with money coming out of your IRA through a qualified charitable distribution and then use that cash that you would have contributed from savings to pay down the car. And that would be the only creative way that you could get that money out because that doesn't become a taxable event through a qualified charitable distribution. But that's only available once you reach age 70 and a half.
So at this point, if you want to use that money to pay off the car, it's going to have to be added to your taxable income, which as you said, could create problems even beyond just you having to pay some taxes. All right. Okay. All right. Thanks for calling, Steve. Absolutely, sir. God bless you.
Well, that does it for us today. I'm Rob West. Thanks to our amazing production team and to you for listening. I hope you'll join us again next time right here on Faith and Finance. Faith and Finance is provided by Faithfi and listeners like you.
