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Some might call it bliss. I am Rob West. It's true that most couples at least occasionally quarrel about their finances, but could a better understanding of each other's values help spouses avoid that bickering? Shanti Feldhan thinks so, and she joins us today to talk about it. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's always a blessing to have relationship expert Shanti Feldhan on the program. Shanti, welcome back. It's always great to be with you. Shanti, you have an insightful article in the first edition of our quarterly magazine, Faithful Steward. It's titled Money in Marriage: It's a Matter of Value.
And it shows how important it is to understand where spouses are coming from if we want to avoid money squabbles.
Now, you start the piece with a great story about how you and your husband, Jeff, discovered this early in your marriage. And I thought it might be a great place for us to start today. Yeah, we this is one of those things that's kind of embarrassing to even mention, but you know, this is this is where the lessons come from, right? We were living in New York and we were both working these long hours. And, you know, in New York, one of the things that you kind of have to do when you're both working long hours is you just eat out a lot.
And for us, that was great. Like we had kind of, we had kind of had the money for it. But we would always get into these crazy arguments as we were sort of in the middle of dinner. And it took me a while to figure out what was going on. It took us a while because the waiter would always come over and say, you know, can I get you anything to drink?
Jeff would order water. I would order a diet of Coke. And then later I would ask for a refill. and Jeff would start shutting down. And it took us a while to recognize that, oh, by the way, in New York, I should say that refills are not free.
Right. And Jeff is thinking, apparently, what I did not know is that Jeff was thinking something about my motivation that was not what I was thinking. And it really all had to do with what each of you value.
Now, I know this became a lot clearer as you launched in to this really important survey and study that resulted in a book. And we'll talk about that, but unpack how you were able to began to understand what was going on beneath the surface as you continued through your work.
Well, we didn't actually realize until we started this big national project for helping people around their marriage and money. We didn't we kind of went back to the Diet Coke thing, which had become kind of infamous, and we went Oh, that's an example of one of the things that we found, which is that it turns out one of those issues that causes a lot of conflict in most marriages is that you're not valuing what the other person is valuing. And in that particular case, what we realized is that Jeff was literally thinking, like, if we keep ordering refills for $4.50, like we're going to be homeless in retirement. That was what was in his mind. Like, and he was thinking, you know, how can she be willing to do this?
Like, she doesn't realize how hard I'm working. Like, we have $125,000 in student loan debt. And clearly, she doesn't care about our financial well-being, right? There you go. She doesn't care about it.
Right. And what he didn't know until we were able to actually talk about it is that actually, no, it was something completely different, which was for me. We were newlyweds at the time. He didn't know that. I know this is weird.
But I don't like the taste of water. I know that's strange. But literally, like, it's a thing for me. I'm fine with staying home and cooking at home. But if I'm going out somewhere to eat, like, I can only enjoy a meal if I have like an iced tea or a dice Coke or something else to drink.
And he can enjoy a meal just fine with just water. This little tiny thing. Was just something that we didn't know about each other. And so we didn't know how to even, we didn't even know that this was a thing, much less how to honor what the other person valued. Yeah.
And that was a key understanding that was really a game changer for you all. And I know as you got into your work, you realized that, hey, we're not alone. This is very common. And in fact, there's all kinds of examples about how what you value is different than what I value. And it shows up in the money conversation all the time.
So when we come back, we'll unpack a few of those and maybe you'll have that aha that Shanti and Jeff had about how your understanding of your spouse's wiring and preferences could be a game changer. Shanti Felton here today. We're talking money and marriage. Back with more right after this. Stick around.
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That's chministries dot org slash faith fi. I'm so glad you've joined us today for Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. With me today, my friend Shanti Feldhaun. Shanti and her husband, Jeff, wrote the book, Thriving in Love and Money.
And folks, it is a game changer in terms of you understanding what are the drivers to the breakdown in communication, to the arguments, to the frustration around money and marriage. Because God's heart is that we would have oneness, that we'd have unity in marriage. And despite the fact that we have different backgrounds and different ways that God has hardwired us, this whole area of money management can be an instrument of peace that drives you toward God's ultimate plan for your marriage and your family and each of you in your walk with him. But it doesn't have to be a source of distraction or frustration. And thriving in love and money will help you get to the heart of that.
So pick it up wherever you buy. Books and Janti, we were sharing before the break that really at the foundation of this book is a massive study that you and Jeff did on this topic of money and marriage. I'd love for you to unpack a little bit of the data and maybe some of the key learnings from that. Yeah, no, we spent several years essentially trying to understand what is it that creates a great marriage around money.
Now, obviously, other people can do a much better job of, you know, how do you help people budget and all that kind of stuff. What we really wanted to uncover were what were the factors in your relationship that most matter? And what we talked about right before the break was one of them. You know, this concept of. Wow, the thing that causes the friction is often that you're simply just not valuing what the other person is valuing.
We found that this was really common, and depending on the survey question, this is anywhere from like two-thirds to like 80%, 85% of people fell into this category. One of my favorite ones, because I recognized it in myself, is that 67%, so more than two-thirds of people in a spending conflict, they're looking at their spouse. And while they're arguing over buying this refrigerator or that refrigerator, and they're thinking to themselves, if you would just look at this logically, you would agree with me. You're just not being logical. And the problem is, both people are thinking that.
Yes, exactly. At the same time. Yeah. And so that's one of the big issues that is running under the surface.
Well, let's talk about that for a second because I'd love for you to perhaps share some examples of what this looks like in the typical couple's life where they value different things and perhaps are thinking just that. If you would just think about this logically, we'd be on the same page here. Where does that show up?
Well, think about, let me give you just a silly example, because all of us kind of get these sorts of things. Imagine that you have a real desire. To buy a particularly expensive or nice or high-end membership in a gym or a golf club or whatever. And let's just say it's a nice gym, it's $150 a month, $200 the month. And for you, yeah, it's kind of expensive, but you know, okay, it's worth it, right?
It's that's okay. Your spouse comes back from Costco with two hundred dollars worth of stuff and you're like, why does it cost so much? Right. And it's the same amount. Yes.
But you're like, come on. Like, what we most need from Costco is toilet paper and whatever, and it should cost $75 or $100 per visit, you know, total. Sure. Those are examples of you're valuing two different things and you don't realize it. For you, the value is: wow, it's not just a golf club.
This is a chance for me to have a place that I network with people. This is a chance for me to make sure that I'm kind of up on, you know, how when I'm golfing, so I'm not embarrassed. Like, that's really important to me to actually be competent and to have the opportunity to take some lessons and that kind of thing.
So, it's not just a service that just happens to cost some hundreds of dollars a month. There's a lot of other stuff under there. It's being better at my job, et cetera. Yes. Okay.
Whereas your spouse may be on the other thing thinking, that's just ridiculous. Why are we spending that much money? For a monthly fees at the golf club, when really what we need are we need to be spending our money on consumables. Like going to Costco and spending $200, that saves me. From spending $400 at the grocery store because everything's much more cheap and consumables are worth it.
That's just an example, the idea of like things versus services. Those are two different types of things that people care about and and here's the thing There's no one right answer. That's the key is that for us to recognize that it's not that you're right and I'm wrong, it's that we're valuing two different things, and you have to, and this is not overstating it, in order to have a good marriage around money. You have to. Understand what's going on underneath what your spouse values so you can talk about it.
Yeah, and I know this shows up in other areas. You give other examples in the book, like enjoying the present and using money to deepen relationships versus saving for retirement. It could be giving great presents to the kids or grandkids versus building an inheritance. It can manifest itself in all kinds of ways, but at the heart of it is a difference in what we value.
Now, that leads to Shanti, one of the other big findings to avoid this conflict in marriage, which was communication, because the only way you're going to understand what the other values is if you're talking about it, right? Yes, and the issue that often comes up, and this is extremely common. The issue that often comes up is you don't realize you're not actually communicating about. What's going on in your spouse's heart and mind? You're telling them what you want.
Hmm. Which is fine, like of course, like everybody has their opinions, awesome. But just recognize that there is a heart underneath what your spouse cares about. And there's a heart underneath what you care about, and you have to understand that underneath. the surface stuff if You want a great relationship around money.
Now, you might be able to have great money. You might be able to have a great retirement account. You might be able to have perfect financial services and have not a great marriage around money. And I think people want both. Yeah.
Janti, obviously doing the hard work and uncovering and understanding each other's values is something we can do on our own just by talking about it. But what about the role of the advisor to walk alongside you in this?
Well, one of the things that we found actually in the research that was so encouraging for like the kingdom advisor community, the Christian financial advisor community, is that the average financial advisor, they don't want any part of that conversation. Right. That this is. Let me deal with the numbers, not the marriage, please. Exactly.
They're like, oh, I'm not a marriage counselor. And no, of course, your financial advisor is not a marriage counselor, regardless.
However, one of the things that people who have a kingdom mindset are trained to do, and I've done some of the training for some of the kingdom advisors in your world. Um, is actually to go, you know, what this is a bigger thing. Like, God cares just as much or more about the marriage as He does about the finances because if the marriage is in trouble, your finances could be great, and you're still not actually honoring God in this. And so, I really do encourage people to talk to their financial advisor about help me work through these values with my spouse so we know where to put our money. That is so good.
Well, Shanti, we're going to have you back because we just scratched the surface. But thanks for your time today. Absolutely. That's Shanti Feldhan, co-author with her husband Jeff of Thriving in Love and Money: five game-changing insights about your relationship, your money, and yourself. And folks, to learn more about becoming a Faith5 partner so you can read articles like Shanti's and our Faithful Stewart magazine, just go to faith5.com/slash partner.
Money touches nearly every part of our lives, but scripture tells us it also reveals our hearts. Hi, I'm Rob West. In my 21-day devotional Our Ultimate Treasure, I invite you on a journey of scripture, reflection, and prayer to rediscover what faithful stewardship really looks like, not just in your finances, but in your heart. You can get your copy of Our Ultimate Treasure at faithfi.com slash shop. That's faithfy.com slash shop.
Faith in Finance is grateful for support from Sound Mind Investing. For more than 30 years, they've offered financial wisdom for living well. SMI provides step-by-step guidance for do-it-yourself investors, from those just getting started to those getting ready for retirement. More information, including a short video webinar on profit and peace of mind no matter what's happening in the market, is available at soundmindinvesting.org. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance.
We're taking your calls and questions. Let's head out to St. Louis. Felicia, how can I help? Hi, yes, this is Felicia.
Thank you for taking my call. Of course. My husband and I had a couple of properties. We sold one property, and we used the we used a portion of that money to pay off debt. um to pay off my student loan debt, to pay off um his truck.
to pay off some small credit cards that we have.
So currently, we have no debt. We have no core notes. We have none of that.
So we just have our basic bills. The only debt we have currently is a mortgage on a house that we currently live in. I had taken, I had borrowed $14,000 from my savings. in order to have a dick put on the house.
Okay. I currently am close to having half of that to put back.
So my question is, once I get the funds back to where they were before I borrowed to have the deck placed on the house, should I invest? And if I invest, am I investing all of it? Or am I investing a portion?
So right now, I'm looking at about one hundred twelve thousand dollars that I'm looking to Put into investments. But I am a type of person who plays things safe.
So I'm not familiar at all with investing.
So I really don't know what to do.
Okay. Well, I appreciate the question. It sounds like you guys are doing a great job. And I love the fact that you're completely debt-free and you're working on getting your savings rebuilt.
So you ended up paying off the student loans, you paid off the truck, you put the deck on, and then you said you're replenishing the money that you used for the deck, but you also have the $112,000.
So is the $112,000 what is remaining from the home sale? Yeah. Okay. And does that include all of your savings, or do you have separate from that what I would call an emergency fund? I do have an emergency.
an emergency fund. I also have A raw I don't now. Let me be, let me be honest, totally honest here. I've had this raw for nearly. 10 years, and I have not put anything in it.
I think it's only sitting with maybe about $6,000 in it. If that works. And We have the money to do it. We have but in my thoughts is like. I just want to save it myself.
And I know doing that myself is not is not a benefit to me. My husband and I are currently in a position where we can save four thousand to five thousand dollars a month. And we glorify God in that because we have really come a long way. We have really worked hard to get to where we are today.
So with that being said, I just Don't know as we're aging, I really don't know what the best, I don't know the best steps to take. in order to Help that to grow as we're aging. Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate that.
So you said you have these roth IRAs, you haven't put anything really in them yet, but you have the ability to. You sound like you're living way below your means. I love that.
So that's throwing off, you know, a lot of surplus there. Do you guys have retirement plans available at work, either you or your husband? I do. My husband's job does not. My husband actually just returned back to the workforce.
He had his own business. and it did not allot us insurance and I was without a job for about two years. I had to return myself back to the workplace so we could have insurance.
Now he currently has a job that would allow him to have insurance as well, so we will utilize insurance for both his employer as well as mine.
Okay. So other than that, as far as savings plans, his current job does not but mine does. I work for the federal government, so I do have a savings plan. Great.
Okay. Is that a TSP plan? Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah, you know, here's what I would recommend, Felicia.
I believe you're in a really great position to connect with an advisor because what I would love for you to be able to do is to put together a financial plan. I realize you've got some apprehension about investing. You're wanting to, you know, get completely debt-free. That's great. You're wanting to build up some savings.
It sounds like you're fairly conservative, which is not a bad thing. But I think having somebody really develop a comprehensive plan so you can see, okay, what is our lifestyle spending now? What might it be in the future? And what asset levels are we going to need alongside your TSP and alongside Social Security and anything you might put in these Roths to be able to continue to fund your lifestyle into the future? And having that plan and have somebody really run those projections and help you understand what that looks like, I think will give you a lot of peace of mind and take a lot of the guesswork out of it.
And then, once you establish that relationship, that trusted relationship, then I think that advisor could help you begin to invest this money in a way that aligns with your values and your risk tolerance, not taking unnecessary risk, but giving you somebody that can make those decisions on your behalf in terms of what those investments should be. Because if you start to do that yourself and then you second-guess it, and then the market starts to pull back and you see that balance declining, you're going to pull everything out and that's going to kind of work against you. And I think you need somebody that can really be that trusted source of counsel, not only to develop the plan, which is going to give you confidence and peace of mind, but ultimately be the one to make those investment decisions for you. And I think the combination of your plan, retirement plan, your husband's new plan, the Roth IRA, the surplus that you have, and the amount that you've already put aside from the home sale that could. Be used to kickstart this investment plan, you've got plenty of assets and the ability to create more.
You just need somebody who can kind of orchestrate the whole thing for you and make the decisions on the investments. Does that make sense? It makes great sense, and I do appreciate your advice. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you.
What I would do as a next step, Felicia, would be to go to our website, findacka.com. Findacka.com. CKA stands for Certified Kingdom Advisor. There's about 1,800 men and women across the U.S. and Canada that have met the high standards to become CKA.
And they're going to share your values. They've trained to bring a biblical worldview, pastor reference, client reference, statement of faith, code of ethics, regulatory review. I mean, we kind of put them through it, but it gives us confidence to say, okay, if you connect with some certified kingdom advisors in your area, I'd interview two or three, find the one that's the best fit. What you're looking for is a financial plan, and then you're probably on the heels of that going to be looking for somebody to take over the investment management. And I think that will get you pointed in the right direction.
Okay, I do appreciate that. Absolutely. Listen, call anytime if we can help. Thanks for being on the program today. Hey, folks, our desire for you is that you would see God as your ultimate treasure and that money would be a tool to accomplish his purposes.
I hope today's broadcast has been an encouragement to you. We're certainly grateful that you've been along with us today. Thanks to my team today: Robert Sutherland, Devin Patrick, and Robert Youngblood. Couldn't do it without them. For those gentlemen, I'm Rob West.
This has been Faith and Finance, and we'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by Faith Buy and listeners like you.
