Invest Like an Owner with Robin John

This Faith and Finance podcast is underwritten in part by The Good Investor, a book by Robin John. This Faith and Work memoir hopes to inspire readers to view their work and investments as opportunities to honor God and bring blessing to the world. You can learn more now at goodinvestor.com. That's goodinvestor.com. What if we stopped investing like bystanders and started investing like owners and neighbors in the story of our finances?

Hi, I'm Rob West. When you invest like an owner, our portfolios can reflect faithful stewardship and create real-world impact. Robin John joins us today to share practical ways to move from passive investing to purposeful ownership. And then it's onto your phone calls at 800-525-7,000. That's 800-525-7,000.

This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.

Well, I'm delighted to welcome back my friend Robin John, co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management, a Boston-based investment firm devoted to investing that makes the world rejoice. Eventide is also a proud underwriter of this program. Robin, it is great to have you back. It's always so wonderful to be with you, Rob. Robin, when you joined us last time, we discussed your book, The Good Investor, and how investing can be a spiritual act that brings joy and how business has the power to either honor or erode human dignity.

But that conversation only scratched the surface, so I want to dig a bit deeper into that today. Let's begin with a foundational idea from your book. Robin, you draw a clear distinction between investing and speculation. I want you to unpack that for us a bit and explain why that difference is especially important for believers. Yeah, investing is very different than speculating.

I actually think that, you know, speculating, day trading, and things like that. tend to be much more like gambling. But when you're investing, you're buying shares in a company. you are buying a piece of the company.

So, when we are investing in a company, we want to invest in companies that are generating healthy profit. Healthy cash flows. Companies that we are believing in, companies whose products and practices. We as Christians believe are good for the world.

So we are partnering with these companies, we are rooting for them, we are sharing in the profits. That's very different than speculation. Yeah. try to ride the market's short-term movements. Yes.

If, Rob, if you told me you knew exactly what the market is going to do between now and the end of the day. It would be hard for me to believe you. You could show me all the graphs and charts, but speculating is like gambling. That's right.

So yeah, so it's real investing. Christians that understand investing, I believe. Can have peace in knowing. That their capital is with companies. that are run well by good management teams.

that are supporting good causes. And real investing shouldn't be about looking at the stock price each and every day. Yeah, that's exactly right. And we're actually participating in God's design for economics and the deployment of capital into businesses, creating human flourishing, which is why I love this so much.

Now, Robin, you often emphasize the idea of being an owner. Talk about what the real difference is when we start thinking like owners rather than traders, let's say. Yeah, I often say that ownership confers ethical responsibility. You know, when we are owning something, you know, whether it's a store or or a convenience store in our neighborhood. We really care that we run it in a way that aligns with our values.

that we are having an impact on the community. that we are serving our customers, we are loving our employees. That we are serving our community, that our work, our business, our investing is good for the world. That is very different than thinking as a day trader. Uh you know, day trading is just about Making money for yourself without really having any sort of a sense of what your money's doing in the world.

And it's very short-term oriented, very high stress. uh real ownership is about knowing where your money is. and having a view of the impact that your money is having in the world. investors We are not only sharing in the profits, but we are influencing the companies through voting proxies, for example, through engaging with management teams.

So we have a huge opportunity. And I would say a responsibility. To steward our investing well, to reflect Christian values. into the world. Through the stewardship of our capital.

That is so well said.

Well, Robin, when we come back from the break, we're going to unpack this a bit further. How does this apply then to index investing? We'll get Robin's take on that. Also, we'll have him explain what he calls a neighbor map, the neighbors that are impacted by the companies we're invested in. We'll also talk about corporate engagement.

We're talking with Robin John today. He's the author of the book, The Good Investor, and much more to come just around the corner. Stick around. If you love what you hear on this program, there's even more waiting for you at FaithFi.com. Explore podcasts, videos, articles, Bible studies, and devotionals, all designed to help you see God as your ultimate treasure and money as a tool to advance his kingdom.

Pursue wisdom, practice generosity, and steward God's resources in a community with others who share your faith. Visit FaithFi.com to take the next step in your faith and financial journey today. That's faithfi.com. Faith in Finance is thankful for support from The Good Investor, a book by Robin John. In his book, Robin shares his journey from an immigrant child struggling in school to co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management, a faith-based investment firm.

This Faith and Work memoir seeks to inspire readers to view their work and investments as opportunities to honor God and bring blessing to the world. More information is available at goodinvestor.com. That's goodinvestor.com. What does it mean to invest like an owner?

Well, Robin John is here to explain that. Robin is co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management, a Boston-based investment firm devoted to investing that makes the world rejoice. Eventide is also a proud underwriter of this program. You can learn more at goodinvestor.com. That's the name of Robin's new book and just a powerful read that takes Robin's story and really helps you to understand your opportunity in aligning your faith with your investments.

Now, Robin, before the break, we were talking about this idea of seeing ourselves as owners, not just traders when it comes to investing and the opportunities that gives us, as well as the ethical responsibility that is conferred by ownership. And I want to take that and then carry it into a popular investing strategy right now, which is really the automatic index investing. You say it's the own everything approach. From a faith perspective, why do you have concerns with that? Yeah, you know.

Index investing is also known as passive investing. As Christians I don't think that we could do anything passively in this world. We have to be extremely thoughtful. And you know, Romans 12, for example, in verse 2 says, Do not be conformed. But renew our minds so that we may test and approve God's good pleasing and perfect will.

That same chapter goes on to say: let your love be without hypocrisy. Hate what is evil. Cling to what is good. The Bible tells us in Ephesians. to have nothing to do with the useless works of darkness, instead expose them for what they are.

So, as Christians, I really do think we need to be careful about what we are partnering with and supporting with our capital. Do we really want to support things like tobacco and abortion and pornography and gambling? By investing in these broad indexes. I don't think we do. I don't think we should.

I believe that as Christians, we have a huge opportunity. To pursue good profits and avoid bad profits, I do want to let our audience know that recently. Eventide has launched What we call systematic ETFs. These are exchange-traded funds. Historically, we have managed mutual funds.

And we are now also managing exchange traded funds.

So for investors that Says, hey, I don't really care to outperform or look very different in the market. What we've created are these systematic ETFs that Seek to track the market. As much as we can without being invested in the whole market.

So we are tracking different benchmarks as much as we can within a more limited universe. And we're hoping to serve the needs of the investor that is used to the experience of investing in the market. Oh, that's powerful. You can learn more at Eventide Investments.com, where you can get those index-like returns that you're looking for, but making sure that you're still aligned with your values.

Now, Robin, that is really helpful as we think about avoiding companies that are misaligned with our values. There's also this embrace side to faith-based investing where we invest in companies that are loving our neighbors. And you paint a picture in the book, The Good Investor, about a neighbor map. Explain that for us. Yeah, first of all, you know, we want to embrace good.

That's the major theme in the Bible. Our God in Genesis 1 is a good God who does good work that He calls good. And then he commissions us in Genesis 1.26. to do good work and he makes us in his image in order to do good work.

So, you know, I do the work of investing.

So, I want to do what God would call good investing. A big part of good investing is to ensure that a company's products and practices. are good for the various neighbors. that the company interacts with. And by the way, the neighbor principle.

Uh we first see it in Leviticus 19 where It tells us to love your neighbor as yourself. And if speaking to business people. It speaks to the vineyard owner, the farmer, and tells them to love their neighbor as themselves.

So at Eventide, we asked ourselves who are all the neighbors to a business that a business is supposed to serve? and we came up with six neighbors. Uh the customers So we were asking questions like: Does the product serve a real need that the customer has? or is the product harming the customer in some way? The employees Is the management team loving and serving well their employees so that the employees could serve well their customers?

Yes. Are they paying attention to safety, fair pay, humane scheduling? providing pathways for advancement. We look at the supply chains. Our suppliers treated us valued partners.

Are there ethical or safety concerns within the supply chain? host communities How is the company interacting with their host communities? How are they creating good jobs and adding value in their communities? We look at how the company is treating the environment. That's the fifth stakeholder.

is the company caring for creation, including the animals. When we care for creation, one of the things that we don't realize as Christians sometimes. is that One of the ways to love the poor in the world is to care for the environment. I'm born in India. And I see that it is the poor that are hurt the most.

When there is water pollution and air pollution.

So we love the poor when we love the environment. And finally, society is the company's products and practices bringing value. And enhancing the broader society are all the, basically, all the stakeholders in a way represent society. I think that's well said. And the exciting thing is that there is now empirical data that says that companies that do the things Robin just described, loving their neighbors well, it's actually an added source of alpha, meaning these companies tend to outperform, which is the way you would expect it to be because that's God's design.

And yet, we see the evidence prove that out. Robin, one of the other benefits you have when you take ownership of these companies is speaking into the company. We have just a couple of minutes left. Share quickly the opportunity around engagement. Yeah, we are partners in these companies.

When we are investors, we are co-owners. And we want to treat management teams and the companies as though we are partners with them.

So when we see issues in the companies, we engage. We start by asking thoughtfully, respectfully questions. and we try to find common ground with management. We don't want to be competitive. We want to be co-owners and investors and build trust and dialogue.

At times, we are engaging with the senior management of the company, sometimes the CEO. And we do all of this within a compliance framework at Eventide. A lot of our engagements are to promote our values as Christian investors.

Sometimes we engage on things like employee safety practices, sometimes drug pricing concerns.

sometimes slave labor issues within the supply chain. high interest rates that we feel are almost predatory. We've engaged on abortion philanthropy, abortion-related travel reimbursements.

So, there are many ways that we engage with management at these companies, and ultimately, we want good companies to be even better.

Well, I know it's an incredible opportunity as you engage with these companies.

Now, Robin, we're about out of time. You all have put together a phenomenal new website at goodinvestor.com. What will investors find there? Yeah, I think uh the big concern investors have is not knowing what they're investing in.

So, one of the tools that we built at goodinvestor.com is a screening tool.

So our audience could put in their holdings, their ticker symbols right into that tool and know what they're investing with. They could also connect with a financial advisor that understands faith-based investing on goodinvestor.com. Excellent. Robin, we really appreciate you and our partnership, my friend. Thanks for your time today.

Thank you so much, Rob. That's Robin John, co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management. Folks, check it out today, goodinvestor.com, and screen your portfolio or connect with an advisor. We'll be right back. You're young.

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All right, let's head to the phones. Carrie is in Florida. Carrie, go ahead. Hi, thank you for taking my call. Of course.

We had that my parents back in twenty ten did a life estate warranty deed on their house. And my Four of us and my parents are on the warranty deed. and they had a a life estate where they could live in it, obviously. Yeah. Now, my mom passed away eight years ago in um 2018, and then my dad just passed away in December 2024.

96 years old. Had a wonderful life, so we're not we're rejoicing in his life, but um. We're looking to sell the house. And um The question for me would be is for all of us is Yeah. I'm hearing that there's a life expectancy table I need to look at for what we would use as the value of the house.

when we sell it for capital gains or if there's any losses based on what we're going to sell it for. I'm trying to understand that part. Yes, good question.

So you said it was given, it wasn't given to you, but it was through a life estate, correct? Yes, we're all tenants in common. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

So you are going to need to visit with a tax professional to help you kind of work through this. But you're right. You know, with the life estate, essentially what happens is you have the ability, you know, you are the remainderman. And, you know, by doing the life estate, it allowed your parents to be able to live in the home throughout the rest of their lives, but it transfers the remainder interest to the children. But they retain possession and control for life.

And so it's still included in their estate at death. And because it's included in the taxable estate, then it receives that full step-up in cost basis to the fair market value as of the date of death.

So, even though the deed was put in your names back in the early 2000s, the tax clock resets at their death because of that life estate. And so that was key. And so, you know, at this point, you've got to decide: are you all going to keep the house or sell it?

Sounds like you all are wanting to sell.

Now, there is an official life expectancy or life estate table that's used by the IRS to calculate the value of a life estate and the remainder interest at the time it's created. And so, you know, that table that's produced by the IRS is updated periodically. But most advisors and attorneys use that, you know, for this purpose to calculate essentially, you know, what the remainder interest would be for that life estate.

So you're going to want to get a tax professional involved to determine the taxable value of what was given away, you know, based on this table. And that would be something they would do all the time.

Okay. So that would be the value of what we would Thank you first. Like when my dad passed in the house, we'll say we're at two hundred and we're selling it for two twenty five. that twenty five is not just the only capital gain. We have to figure there's other Um components.

Is that what Yes, that's exactly right.

So they created the life estate and gave the remainder interest to the children so that your parents retain that, you own the future right, and then essentially, because those rights are split, the total property value is divided between the life tenants and the remainderman using that actuarial table. And so that is going to determine essentially the value from a tax planning standpoint. And so it gets a little complicated, but that's where the advisor will come in.

So for now, you effectively own a certain percentage of the value of this property, and that's where the table will come in to value that life estate.

Okay. It is not as clear-cut as I originally thought then.

Okay. Yeah. It is a little bit more complicated.

So I think that's where you need to get with a tax professional who can walk you through that at the end of the day. But they'll handle that for you. That's what they do every day, and it shouldn't be that complicated. But we appreciate your call. It sounds like your parents were well planned, and I'm delighted to hear that.

Call anytime if you have further questions. Maria's in Pennsylvania. Marie, go ahead. Yeah, hello. Um thank you for I'll take you my call.

So I have three months of income. Saved out. And I have about $2,300 in savings. And I have a Small like $500 left on a HELOC and about $500 on a credit card, both of which have like 7% and 8.9% on them. My question is.

Mm. Yeah, I I consider my savings separate from my three months of saved up income because Um, you know, if there was an emergency car breakdown or something, I didn't want that to come out of my three months of saved income, yeah.

So, um question is help Is there a percentage? Um of what you should have in your emergency fund. That's one of my questions. Do we want to answer that one first or go on? Sure.

Yeah, you know, I think the key here is: I'd love for you to have three to six months' expenses in your emergency fund, but not if you're carrying high-interest credit card debt. I mean, I think the HELOC is separate. Let's just get on a reasonable payback to have that paid back in a reasonable period of time. But with regard to the high-interest credit card debt, as long as you've corrected the problem that got you into the debt in the first place, and maybe it was the lack of an emergency fund, I would spend that emergency fund down to as low as one month's expenses, maybe even $1,500 to get out of credit card debt. As long as that meant you could start building it back up, but there's no reason for you to be paying 22% interest when you've got money in your emergency fund.

You know, as long as you keep a thousand or fifteen hundred dollars, I'd attack that credit card debt. But then let's get on a budget and make sure that you're not going to just build it right back up. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Five.

Unfortunately, I'm out of time. If you have a follow-up question, let's get you on tomorrow, Marie. I really appreciate your call today. Lord bless you. Folks, so grateful to have you along with us today on the broadcast.

We'll be back. Tomorrow, Lord willing to do it all over again. Our goal: help you see God as your ultimate treasure and live as a wise and faithful steward. Big thanks to our team today: Pat, Devin, Jim, and everybody here at FaithFi. Have a great day.

We'll see you tomorrow. Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by Faith Buy and listeners like you.