Should Christians Be Involved In Freemasonry? - Part 2

Blessings to Israel presents Discerning the Times, a program committed to encouraging you to view current events through the lens of the Bible. Now in honor of the one and only true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, please join us for today's program.

Welcome to Discerning the Times. My name is Brian Thomas. So great to be with you as always. And this week we're going to continue our interview with Pastor Jon Pinnell, the pastor of Calvary Chapel of Lake Villa. And we are going to continue our discussion on Freemasonry and should we as Christians be involved in it.

So I will pull him in shortly. But before I do, I want to share a clip that is referring to the secret handshakes and the preferential treatment that goes on within those who are a part of Freemasonry. Show us what happens when you shake hands with a Mason.

Sure. What you'll see is they put the thumb there and that would be the third knuckle from the thumb. So you see this very frequently. This is the entered apprentice. There are two for fellow graph, but Master Mason is right there. And whenever I've shaken somebody's hand that way as a Mason, it's almost like a jolt.

They get it. Masons will always go in to make that handshake because it's innocuous enough to know that, well, if you're not a Mason, you're not going to respond. But it's also obvious to a Mason to know that if you are, he's trying to communicate to you.

The next thing that happens is he says something to you after you make the change. If you don't know them, he will say, so you're a traveling, you're traveling. It means, you know, you're a brother. Are you traveling? Are you a brother? And, you know, are you on your journey in Freemasonry with me? So you say, yes, I'm traveling. Yes, I'm a brother. So that way.

So the handshake plus the request, are you traveling or are you traveling? And the answer, yes, then they know that they know that you're both the same. You've got the same principles and you belong to the same lodge. So not the same lodge, but the same brotherhood. So the same brotherhood whose laws transcend all laws. They're above all these other laws.

Yes. So that's one thing. Now, you also mentioned about the different signs that they gave in public when they have to. You mentioned something about asking for help in danger.

Perhaps you can give us some of those. Well, there was a situation with another lawyer who was a Mason that appeared before a judge and he gave him the sign of the inter-apprentice degree. And the judge understood that he was a Mason and therefore gave a favorable ruling to his client. There are all different kinds of examples, but that's the benefits that you see because it was he was bound by a Masonic oath and there was a request there.

He had to honor it. So and the big distress you think you showed us before, but the Mason in distress, he's got three. What is that against the hand grand healing sign of distress? And there's a statement that you make with it, which takes place in the third degree of Freemasonry, which is the death, burial and resurrection ceremony that the master Mason goes through. And it's, oh, Lord, my God, is there no help for the widow son?

This is the sign of distress. This is how your hands were placed on the volume of the sacred law when you swore your Masonic obligation, your oath. And is there no help for the widow son refers to a mockery of our Lord. The widow is our lady. The Lord is the son.

There is no help for him because we don't believe in his resurrection. That's a fraud. We believe in the Masonic resurrection.

That's only through principles of Freemasonry that you're raised to eternal life. So about the gestures, this, this. That's correct. And so that's that's that's a big sign of distress. That's the big one. And you are bound at that point by your obligation to assist that brother in need, even if it requires you to give your own life.

Now, what happened? What is the other symbol beside for the second degree and the second degree? Yeah, you swear the oath this way. That's called the due guard, the entered apprentice degree, the due guard in this. The due guard is how you have your hands positioned on the volume of the sacred law when you swear your oath. The due guard is this and the sign is the penalty of the oath entered apprentice degree, the fellow craft degree. The due guard is this and the sign is this. The penalty of the fellow craft degree is having your chest torn open and your heart plucked out and placed on the temple. And then finally, in the master mason degree, your hands are placed on the scriptures this way during your oath. That's the due guard. And the sign is this.

Having my body severed in twain and my bowels taken thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered to the four winds of heaven. So those are the signs. If a mason gives any one of those signs, whatever position he's in, maybe he has to do this. Maybe he has to do this.

You know, it's kind of covert. But that immediately alerts you that that is a brother in need and something needs to be done. In fact, I was doing business in another state and I thanked my cab driver with that handshake.

And he lit up and he said, hey, brother, the lodge is down the street, whatever you need. We have a meeting next week. You're more than welcome. Just with the handshake. All right.

So that was a long clip. Thank you for bearing with me on that. But I wanted to share it because I think it really speaks to what we spoke of last week, John, when we left off speaking of the brotherhood and the secrecy. And I've actually heard some people say this is the reason why some commit crimes and they go to court.

And that's why they get off with little to no punishment is because of these type of brotherhood alliances. But what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I am thinking about the. Lodge itself and.

The home page of the lodge where my dad was a member looking up online about the lodge. They had two statements on there, not just a man basin. And then this statement is the one that really stood out to me. We make good men better.

And if we could be honest, anyone would want to become better. And so maybe the appeal of Freemasonry. But we live in a time in a society right now where joining the Masonic Lodge is becoming popular again with younger men from 20 to 30 years old.

And I think partly because. The church is at times failing to teach young men how to be men these days. We have a society that is definitely not teaching that. And then you have this organization that is secretive, but you go through the process and it helps you not only to grow mentally, but they're saying to help you grow spiritually as well to have a mastery of mind would be a phrase that they would use.

And to have a brotherhood, a fraternity of brothers that will bring you spiritual and mental enlightenment. So it has quite a bit of appeal to that. I've heard about the Masonic handshake. I never knew anything about that.

All I know is when I shook my dad's hand, he tried to crush me and he could do it. But I never noticed anything that seemed secret. I know that maybe that stuff was happening and I just was not aware of it. But definitely as we closed out last week, my dad most likely benefited from the lodge.

Where he worked because of the illness that he had was he was off work for a long time, and yet they still held the job for him. And my oldest sister, because I was pretty young when this happened, but my oldest sister said that because the Masons made sure that he had that job. So these things happen. The brotherhood is true in that sense, but also they protect their brothers. And sometimes they would say only in the case of murder or treason. Other than that, you have to protect your brother.

So if it's anything lighter than murder or treason, then you have to protect the wrongdoer. We know that that is not right. Right. Right.

Interesting. And to our audience, anyone that missed us last week, Pastor John's father was in Freemasonry, a high ranking member. If you missed that episode, please visit our website, blessings to Israel dot com. And you can find that there.

And I encourage you to listen to it. And John, I think you really touched on something there when you said that the church is really failing in this area. And I agree with you totally because it is within our nature. I think God put it all within our nature to belong. And with what we are looking to do is we belong to the body of Christ. That is the way in which we unite to one another. But there are many out there that are looking to unite in ways outside of Christ. And that is why we see these different organizations coming up. But I think if the church would really do its due diligence with building up me, and I think that would be lesser of a desire to to turn towards things like Freemasonry or fraternities.

And I don't know about your experience, but I often hear when pastors do address me and in church, it seems like they're often putting them down. They're emasculating me and telling them how bad they are, how weak they are, as opposed to trying to build them up. And I tell people, no man is going to want to go and be a part of something that's always tearing them down. They want to be a part of something that's building them up. So I really think the church is missing in that area.

Yeah, I agree. And what are we teaching our young boys and teens? What example are we setting for them in that sense? And the culture is definitely doing that. Yeah. And many of the churches are trying to fall in line with the culture.

Right. Which is always, always horrible for a church to do, because we should be counterculture in the sense if the culture is going away from God, then we don't want to travel that same direction without. And we want to stand strong on the truths of God's word and having a biblical worldview. And when I looked at this, my very first message that I did, and I've only done one message on the Masonic Lodge at our church, but I took it from the viewpoint of having a biblical worldview in the sense of whether you're talking about being a Mason or part of a sorority or part of any other organization.

You should have the principles of faith as a foundation to determine whether you would want to follow after the fraternity or the Masonic Lodge, whatever the thing might be. You should have that foundation of faith to guide you and direct you. And I think these foundations need to be taught not only to our men, but our men need to be teaching these things to our voice and to our team. And again, showing them what it means to be a man today. We live in a culture where they're not even sure whether there is male, female and just ridiculous stuff going on. And we need to take that stand and be real men for God in this world we live in. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

We really need that because, as you say, a culture is trying to just totally take away genders at all. And then when you do see commercials and sitcoms, when a man is there, he's being betrayed as a bumbling fool and that he doesn't know what he's doing. And it's always the woman running to the rescue. But we need to to show us the church that, no, God created me and to be the head of the family, the head of the wife and leaders. And God knows what he's doing. God is really a slap in the face to God. For me, when when people portray that, well, God in his word says men are to be the leaders in the head, but yet portray me as being unintelligent and weak.

And so we really need to combat that. But I want to now ask you, John, is Freemasonry a religion? Because people do debate that. But before you answer, I want to play a clip. This is a man that is interviewing a Freemason out on the street. Lucifer, what is your problem? Just that, sir. I'm a Christian, sir. I'm pure and virtuous and wholesome and innocent.

How can you say anything about me, sir? You need to be born again. I am born again. Did you just say that you are Lucifer? I am Lucifer. OK, define Lucifer for me. Pure, virtuous, wholesome, innocent individual that's out to help people. Lucifer is? Yeah.

Say that again. Lucifer is a pure, holy, virtuous, virtuous. Now, see the Lucifer that God created? That's the same one. Oh, man, this is great.

I'm going to put this on the Internet. Oh, God bless you, brother. Because that's exactly what the Shriners and Masons teach is that Lucifer, Lucifer is light. No.

And what about those hospitals? You know what, sir? Jesus said, many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did not, we did not do these good deeds in your name. And you'll say away from me, you workers of iniquity.

I never knew you. Jesus said it? In Matthew Chapter five.

Mercy. No, that's hard to believe. So you're a Christian and you don't know that. Actually, I really am. Because I'm pure and virtuous. You're pure and virtuous. OK. Have you ever been called worshipful master? No, because I've just been too busy. I've been working, working, working to help people.

What kind of work? See, this is what a Mason confesses that Lucifer is light. All right. Now, I do want to say up front that I don't think this man represents all Freemasons, that all Freemasons are going to go around saying they are Lucifer.

So I don't want to paint that picture. But, John, we've talked about there is a spiritual component to this. And would you go as far as to say that Freemasonry is a religion?

Yeah, I would. One of the difficulties of Freemasonry in the sense of they have their theologians, I guess, but they have so many of them, there's not really an agreed book. But one of their known scholars, his name was Albert Pike, and he said of Freemasonry, he said that every Masonic Lodge is the temple of religion, and it's teaching our instruction in religion.

And so when you come into Freemasonry, the very first degree, as you're coming in, the candidate would say, and this is the words that they will say in that first degree, that the poor candidate is in a state of darkness and now comes of his own free will and in accord, properly prepared, humbly soliciting to be admitted into the mysteries and the privileges of Freemasonry. And so they go on to talk about the spiritual growth and the mastery of mind over the material world. So it actually, even with the recording you just played, it has that works for salvation playing in there with them that they are trying to have spiritual growth, the mastery of mind over the material world. But it conflicts against Scripture itself, which tells us that it's not a works of righteousness that we have done in Titus 3, 5 through 6, but according to his mercy that he saves us through the washing and regeneration, the renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out abundantly on us through Christ Jesus, our Savior. So it's taken away from Christ and really putting the individual as the means by which he is working his way to heaven.

Wow. Yeah, you're so right, folks. There is no way we can do enough good works. The Bible clearly says that our best is as filthy rags before a perfect holy God. We can't work our way into heaven, into eternal salvation. We can only do it by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. And that's the great thing, Pastor John, is that Jesus made it easy for us.

He already did the hard work. All we have to do is accept it. But of course, again, as we stated last week, Satan, he perverts things.

He twists things in order to deceive us. So I want to now transition into the ritual process, because is there an oath or pledge that is required during initiation to get into the Masonic Lodge? Yes, the initial pledge is the declaration of belief in God. So you have to have the grand architect in the sky is a term that they use for God.

And so that is kind of step one. If you say, I don't believe there is a God, then you won't go any further in the Masonic Lodge. So the belief in God, we talked about this last week as well.

It really depends on what religion might be attached to the lodge. So there could be different religious books here in the United States. Usually it is the Bible. In fact, for my dad, it was the first Bible that he ever received. And when he was given the Bible at his initiation, they told him, my dad would repeat the story. They told him that in this book you will find the answers to life. And then my dad would go on to say, I did find the answer.

His name is Jesus Christ. So that's kind of the weird thing. God brings us differently, right, to faith. And some people have, you know, I was raised in a Christian home. That's kind of my testimony.

I came to faith at an early age and received the Lord. But my dad didn't have that testimony. He came from a divorced household. His dad was an alcoholic. He was kind of, his mother divorced his father when my dad was 12 years old. And my grandma said that my dad, you know, John A. 's old enough to take care of himself now. So at 12 years old, apparently my dad was old enough to take care of himself.

He didn't need the man around the house. So he was always lacking in having that example. And then when he saw the church, again my dad's testimony was, I saw, I knew plenty of Christians.

They used to sit with me at the bar stools at the bar. And so he saw the fakeness that was there with that. But he was always searching. And even the lodge, it didn't fill that void in his heart. I mean, he became a grand master at the lodge, but still he was searching and finally found the truth in Jesus Christ. So sometimes God brings us in a way that would be unexpected. And even can use a Bible at a lodge meeting being given to an individual to help his search to find the true Christ.

And my dad did find the true Christ. Amen. Well, praise God.

Praise God for that. Also, I want you to speak about, I've heard you talk before in previous interviews that there are rituals that are performed at a member's funerals or at a member's funeral. So I would like for you to speak to that. But before you do, I want to play another clip that speaks to the secrecy that we see within Masonry. Then there are members like those in Colonial Lodge number 1821 of Washington, D.C. Most of them are in their 20s and some attracted to Freemasonry by Dan Brown novels and movies like National Treasure.

They formed a new brotherhood called the Freemasons in honor of the builders of the Great Temple. Who here was sort of drawn by the mystery? I mean, I think it's a combination of history, tradition and mystery as well. You know, there's ritual.

We don't know what it is. Exactly. That's alluring. I mean, that's the reason people joined Freemasonry and not the Rotarians. So what about those secrets? What would happen if I found out the secret handshake and I weren't a Mason?

You wouldn't have to kill me? The secrets of a Mason represent my integrity as a man. I took a promise that I would not tell you what the secrets of the Mason are.

Also a big secret? The meetings. No non Masons or cameras are allowed. But St. John's Lodge number one of New York City agreed to give us a glimpse of one. For meetings, Masons dress up in their Sunday best. And just like the original stone cutters, wear aprons. At the center of any lodge room is an altar. And all the activities of the lodge take place about the altar. And then there are the ceremonies. Each one teaches a moral lesson related to the legend of one Hiram Abif.

The architect of King Solomon's temple. They can be a little unusual as pointed out in this recruitment video. Even while blindfolded, try to concentrate on what you are asked. What is said to you and what is happening around you. Everything will be explained to you in later sections of the degree. When a candidate comes in through the door, he's blindfolded because symbolically he is in a state of darkness. Because Masonry is all about moving from darkness into Masonic light. That it's about being unenlightened and then enlightened. That's right. As for what happens after that, well, that's a secret.

Yeah, so John, we heard them speak there about, as you said earlier, about the light. Also, if you will, though, talk to us about the apron. And how, what is it, how is it used and what part does it play even in funerals? Yeah, the apron would be at that first degree again. You would get an apron during the first degree, so my dad received a Bible. He also received an apron that he would wear. We don't know what happened to that apron. I didn't want any of my dad's stuff from the lodge, so I didn't keep any of it.

I have three sisters and they have some of that. But no one knows where the apron is at. But that was one of the things. When my dad passed away, I was 28 years old, and they do what is called a Masonic funeral. And I wouldn't allow the funeral to be held on the day of my dad's funeral, but they did do one for him at the week. And so it was the night before, but what they have is the apron be put over the midriff of the deceased. And he would also have the Bible that he received from the lodge in the coffin with him. And that apron, to them, this reading from one of them, a mason named Felix Collins, he says a lambskin apron.

I don't think my dad's was lambskin, I think it was just cloth. But it's an emblem of innocence and a badge of the mason. We are continually reminded of the purity of the life and the conduct, so essentially necessary to gain a mission, admission into the celestial lodge above where the supreme grand master of the universe forever presides. So that right there, it's essential to gain admission to the great lodge in the sky, we might say.

So it shows kind of a work sword. Once again, it keeps coming back to that, going from darkness to light. You go through these degrees, this process, it is a good works for salvation process that they are presenting. And we know that it's by grace we've been saved. That is true faith, according to Ephesians 2, 8, 9. And that salvation is the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. And then here we have the masons. It's kind of a boasting process that they go through trying to shore up their good works. Yeah, that is so true. And to close us out, John, as we are near the end of the program, if you would share any final words of wisdom that you have for anyone that is desiring to be in the Freemasonry.

And before you answer that, I want to play one last clip that is actually speaking to the very thing that you were just saying as far as the boasting and having special privileges. So I want to get your thoughts on this as well. Dr. Carlson, the masons claim that they can trace their history all the way back to King Solomon. What about that? Well, Masonry actually began in 1717 AD. Well, that sure doesn't get it back to King Solomon. But what they do is they have all these stories and legends in the Masonic Lodge that they say that when King Solomon was building the Temple that Hyrum of Bith, his architect, lost the true name of God. And so masons are now on a search for the true name of God's lost name.

How he lost his name is beyond me. But masons claim that they have discovered the true name of God. And when you get to the seventh degree, the royal arch degree of the Scottish Rite, they say that the true name of God that was lost, that all masons worship is jubilant.

It's written in their ritual books, JBO. It is a combination of three deities. They say that the true God is a combination of Jehovah, Baal, and remember Elijah fighting the prophets of Baal, and Osiris, the Egyptian sun god. And they say that that makes up the Trinity.

I'll tell you, folks, God is not going to share his glory with pagan fertility cults of Baal back and with Osiris, the Egyptian sun god. And yet this is what they say in the seventh degree is the true name of God that all masons worship. Then when you get to the 17th degree of the Scottish Rite, you discover that they have a secret password and they whisper this word only in the Masonic Lodge and only masons. They say, no, the true password that will get them into heaven. And they are given this in the Masonic Lodge. Well, we have seen thousands of masons come out and I have learned what they all say is a secret password given to them that they will say when they enter eternity. And the secret password in the 17th degree is Abaddon. Well, the first time I heard that I said, you know, I've heard that somewhere. And in the book of Revelations chapter 9 it says that the chief demon over the pit of hell, his name in Hebrew is Abaddon. The chief demon over the pit of hell. And masons say that is their secret password that will open up eternity to them.

All right. So Pastor John, final thoughts and any words of wisdom? I was just interviewed Mason that my dad actually put through the line is what they call it. So he was the one that sponsored this man. And I talked to him after my dad's death and he went back to, you know, naming I remember this as the chief architect of Solomon's Temple.

I kind of just laughed at him in even saying that. But, you know, we're reading the Bible that David made the preparations for the temple itself in 1 Chronicles 22 and 29 and 1 Kings. We learn of a man named Hiram, but he was the king of Tyre. And he supplied men and logs to assist Solomon and actually had Hiram from Tyre help to build and be the bronze and the metalsmith for the temple itself.

So they're tying a little bit of biblical truth and kind of stretching it out there. I think the one thing that's important for me is to not be on the attack for those who, you know, are a Mason. I met a Mason that came to our church once and he had a Masonic hat on. So I kind of greeted him and saw the A with the G inside it and said, oh, you're a Mason?

My dad was a Mason and we talked a bit and that man became part of our church for quite a while. And he would have cancer. And the very last time I would talk to him, he said to me suddenly as we're talking, Pastor John, you're right. And I said, what am I right about? He said, none of that other stuff matters. It's all about Jesus. And so I realized he was remembering the very first conversation that we had when I first met him. And a few years later, when he's basically near his deathbed, he realized that it was all about Jesus. And I was able to do the funeral and to share his words with his Lodge brothers and to encourage them that none of this other stuff matters.

This is what your Lodge brothers said. It's all about Jesus. And we need to know that, too, that it's about Jesus.

And when things kind of sound like, wait a minute, that's that's not in the Bible. Then we need to get back to that biblical foundation and to write ourselves and to be leery of any organization, any ism, racism, Marxism, socialism, keep building on that foundation that God has given us through his word. Amen. Well, what a great way to close things out. As you said, it's all about Jesus.

That is the truth that we all need to know. It is all about Jesus. Well, Pastor John, we only got through about half of the material that we had planned because this is such a big topic.

But we're going to have you come back if you're willing and available in another month or so and continue talking on this topic of Freemasonry, because you have so much great information that I know people will be blessed to learn. How can people find out more about you and follow your ministry? Well, I think the easiest way would be going to our church's website at CCLV.org, the Calvary Chapel Lake Villa.

So the initials CCLV.org. And you can learn about our church. And we have video and teaching ministry and radio station and podcasts and all that information there.

All right. Well, Pastor John, it's been such a blessing to have you for these past two weeks. And I praise God for what you are doing. And we look forward to speaking with you again. And we just pray that God will continue to bless you and your ministry as you continue to speak in his word and his truth. So thank you so much for being with us.

It was my pleasure. And to our listening audience, thank you for tuning in. Please come back and join us next week as we continue to discern the times by viewing life through the lens of the Bible. Until then, remember to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bless God's great nation of Israel until the only wise God be glory through Jesus Christ forever.

Amen. Thank you for tuning in to Discerning the Times. Please come back and join us next week as we continue to encourage you to view current events through the lens of the Bible. Until next time, remember to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bless God's great nation of Israel and seek first the kingdom of God. Discerning the Times is presented by Blessings to Israel.