The Blinding Power of Hatred; and the War on Cops

We have seen this weekend the blinding power of hate. What about the liberating power of love? Yeah. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

So yesterday morning, Sunday morning, I was preaching at my home congregation, which I do maybe every six weeks. And I was bringing a message on everything will be shaken. And how should we live in the midst of the shaking that's all around us, the turmoil and pain in the society, which I said is something that has been here through history and will continue to be here in intensifying measure until the end of this age. and talked about The recent shootings and talked about the terrorist attack in France and talked about so much that's dividing America. And then finish the message.

And someone came up to me and said, look at this. And it was the report of the shooting of cops, killing of cops in Baton Rouge, Louisiana yesterday. The very thing we're talking about, and the very thing where somehow we as God's people must rise to the top. By bringing a message of reconciliation, by bringing a message of justice, by bringing you a message of Eternal hope. This is Michael Brown.

You're listening to the line of fire, 866-34TRUTH. eight six six three four eight seven eight eight four My wife Nancy and our younger daughter Megan and her daughter Eliana were visiting our older daughter Jen and her family in Maryland over the weekend. They came home Sunday night. And we were talking about the recent events. And Megan showed me a picture of one of the officers who was killed in Louisiana.

There were three officers killed, three others wounded, one in critical condition. And Two of the officers were white. A third was black. married a new father. And he had posted on Facebook just last week.

About the pain he was experiencing as a cop now with everything going on in the society. And it was just very poignant. It was heartfelt. It was genuine. It was caring.

And there he is killed. Buy another. Black man. And obviously it was hatred of police. that drove this man to murder.

terms of his own statements that he's made. It was about, quote, justice. which for him meant murdering People in cold blood. And and I I wrote this down. I I posted this on Facebook.

with a picture of this slain officer. and his baby boy. And I made this comment. This is Montreal Jackson, one of the officers murdered in Louisiana today with his baby son. Apparently this black life didn't matter to the killer.

Suggesting that the killer's hatred for cops was greater than his love for his people. Such is the blinding power of hate. And that's why friends Whatever we do. we must rise above the spirit of the world. and rise above the spirit of the age, and not respond to hatred with hatred and not respond to anger with anger.

and not respond to violence with violence. We must overcome evil with good. Oh, there's absolutely a place for justice, of course. There's absolutely a place where God's people are advocates of justice. But we see what happens when irresponsible rhetoric goes around, when people's worst emotions are appealed to on all sides of the debate.

And right now families in agony and tremendous turmoil throughout the nation. I'm reminded of what Goldemeyer once said. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children More Than they hate us. We've got a lot to talk about today on the line of fire. As always, it will be constructive.

It will build you up in the Lord. It will challenge you to go deeper. Let's put down the flesh with its carnal emotions, which only lead to death and destruction. And let's exalt the Jesus principles for changing the world. We'll be right back.

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It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Regardless of motive. The death of these three brave officers underscores the danger that police across the country confront every single day. And we as a nation have to be loud and clear that nothing justifies violence against law enforcement. Attacks on police. are an attack on all of us.

That was the President, of course, speaking about the murder of the cops in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

So here's my question. It does not matter to me what your race is, what your ethnicity is, what your skin color is. Whether you're a follower of Jesus or not, in terms of your response to this question. Do you feel that there has been irresponsible rhetoric. on any side of this issue now.

that has led to bloodshed. Do you feel there has been irresponsible rhetoric? be it by the President. be it by Black Lives Matter? be it by Donald Trump.

be it by some news commentator? be it by protest groups. I'm asking you a broad question. Do you feel there is irresponsible rhetoric that has led to further bloodshed? I fully understand.

There can be a deep sense of frustration. One caller some days back said to me, so we feel there's injustice in the society.

So we wait for the courts to fix things and the courts do not fix things.

So then it leads to anger and rage. I understand that. When that anger and rage then leads to other sinful acts, then obviously it's destructive. And I think of Jacob, James, the first chapter, telling us that the anger of man does not accomplish God's righteous will.

So there is a righteous anger that is holy and that is good, that leads to right results and right action, and there is an unrighteous anger that is destructive in so, so many ways. I always get concerned. When I hear rhetoric, for example, a pastor rejoicing. After the slaughter of 49 at the gay and lesbian bar in Orlando, the massacre there, and the wounding of many others. And I hear this pastor.

Get online and put up a YouTube video rejoicing.

Well, that's good news. Good news because that's 49 less pedophiles and so on. I'm going to renounce that immediately. It's ugly, it's destructive, it's not God's heart. And it could encourage others.

No, he's not calling for violence. In his view, what the guy did was wrong. It should have gone through the courts, and the court should put people to death. In other words, that should be the death penalty in our society. That was what he was saying.

I'm going to immediately renounce that. Not because I'm trying to prove anything to the gay and lesbian community. Do you think me doing that is suddenly going to make me lovable and appreciate it? No. What they'll say is one homophobe who's not as bad as the other homophobe.

One bigoted homophobe criticizing an even more bigoted homophobe. I'm not doing that to impress people. Or to win human favor. I'm doing that to be responsible. I'm doing that as a witness, as a voice, to renounce.

That which is sinful and destructive, that which is contrary to the gospel, that which will drive people away from Jesus, and anything that might potentially open the door. Tax of violence. That's why I took on Theodore Schubat's dangerous position on this as well. that that could encourage Acts of violence because of irresponsible rhetoric. The same way, I've listened to some of the protests.

be it Black Lives Matter or others, and I've said that is irresponsible rhetoric, that is incendiary, that is destructive.

Now, I want you to hear something. This is from Alton Sterling's aunt. Alton Sterling was the man who was shot dead by police in Louisiana. His funeral was just a few days back. And not surprisingly, this is where the attack takes place in Baton Rouge, just a couple of days after his...

after his funeral. Uh out in Sterling, yes. Had a police record. Yes, he'd been arrested about 20 times, I believe. There were other strikes against him, illegal firearm possession in the past.

And police recall when they got reports of a man threatening someone else with a gun.

So they responded to the reports, understanding that Alan Sterling was that man and tried to subdue him with Taser. When he fought back, according to the police and reached for a gun in his pocket, that's when they shot him dead. Others watching the video said there's no possible possible way to justify this, the man never should have been killed. His 15-year-old son, his oldest son, speaking against violence, not wanting violence, obviously brokenhearted that his father was killed. You can understand how this can inflame emotions around America.

You can understand how police officers say, Hey, you don't understand what we're dealing with. It's his life or ours. You don't understand. We're getting shot at all the time. And here you've got someone with a record and someone who's not complying, resisting arrest.

If he didn't resist arrest, nothing would have happened. He'd be alive today. And if he was guilty of a crime that day, then he'd pay the penalty for it. In any case, in any case, this is what Alton Sterling's aunt, Vita Washington Abusale, had to hear. This is clip number one, and she's responding out to the latest shooting.

And I want you to hear this because it's riddled with emotion and with pain. pain and it speaks to us quite directly. We just had a meeting yesterday to make sure that everybody was on one accord. No justice, no peace. No justice.

That means if you don't give us the justice, you're going to see somebody like me, a black African American, African, on every corner. We don't call for no bloodshed. That's how this house started. With bloodshed. We don't want no more bloodshed.

So if you're not on a cord with us, leave. Go home. Go wherever you come from. This is our house. You can't come in our house killing us.

That's what you're doing because at the end of the day, when these people call these families and they tell them that their daddies and their mama's not coming home no more, I know how they feel because I got the same phone call. No justice. No justice. No peace. That's what we're calling for.

Stop this killing. Stop this. Let's kill it. Stop this killing! Yeah, it's uh it's it's hard.

Hard uh not to hear that without feeling the the pain of this woman. who lost a nephew. And now she's identifying with the families of the cops who have been killed. And I'm listening. I'm not putting everything in the identical category because we don't know all the circumstances involved.

In every shooting, what we do know is for sure that there are people bereaved, people in agony. And when you hear no justice, no peace, What does she mean? Does she mean go out and kill someone? Is that what she means? Does she mean if you feel there's an injustice, well now you go carry out an act of violence?

If you feel a cop took a life, you take a cop's life. No, she's saying the exact opposite. She's saying we're going to keep raising our voices if we feel there's injustice, if we feel we're being targeted, if we feel we're being treated unfairly. We're going to keep raising our voices, we're going to keep making our presence known. But we absolutely abhor bloodshed.

We absolutely abhor people, quote, taking the law in their own hands. And now you have someone else who is guilty of Cold-blooded murder, and of course, has paid the price as well, shot dead in the midst of it. Let us be very careful, friends. Let us be very careful to think about what we say To think about what we post on social media, to think about the message, what will it stir up in people? What will it produce in people?

Oh listen, I'm the last one to advocate apathy. I'm the last one to advocate. I just Eh, whatever. Bad things happen No, no We're talking about lives lost. We're talking about families fractured.

You know, I've never been in the midst of a gun battle or something like that. And so, the closest I've come is like most of us that haven't been in a gun battle or haven't served in the military in the midst of war. Closest I've come, and most of us have come to it, is. watching it in T V or a movie. I was just trying to meditate on the reality of the horror that these people have experienced and the horror of the shots ringing out and bodies falling and people getting phone calls about loved ones.

We must be responsible. We must say Am I cultivating in people a spirit of love or a spirit of hate? Am I cultivating in people a call for justice or a call for retaliation? Am I provoking people to get closer to God and reach out in love to make a difference? Or am I driving people by fleshly emotions?

866-34-TRUTH. You think there's been irresponsible rhetoric leading to bloodshed? We'll be right back. Shake the nation, change the world. Change the world.

Oh God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

What do you what is your response to the idea that the hashtag shouldn't be Black Lives Matter, it should be All Lives Matter? Yeah, you know, it's this interesting thing where people are frustrated that black people are focusing on the unique trauma that black people have faced in this country. And I would never go to a breast cancer rally and yell out colon cancer matters. And that's what people are doing here: they are. Frustrated by the fact that people are focusing on the inequity and injustice specifically targeted to black people.

We know that the way blackness has functioned in this country is unique. And that we have to deal with that trauma in a different way. We also know that. In focusing on black people, that other people will also benefit when we get to equity and when we get to justice. I think of All Lives Matter as a distraction technique that has probably been one of the most through line distraction techniques of the movement, but it doesn't get us away from talking about the key issues at hand, which are police violence and the world that we want to live in, which is a world where police don't kill people.

This is Michael Brown. That was Uh let's see. Uh Do I have the name right here? Yes, Duray McKesson on with Chris Cuomo on CNN, discussing a very valid issue. When we say all lives matter, does that downplay the idea that black lives matter?

Are we denigrating things? Is it like going to a breast cancer fundraiser and saying, yeah, but colon cancer matters too? Um I have only used. I have only used the The All lives matter. Statement when I felt we needed to draw attention to the overall pain and suffering in the nation.

So for example, Two weeks ago after the killings in Dallas. Here I'm looking at headlines earlier in the week: Black Lives Matter with the deaths of Alton Sterling and the gentleman in Minnesota. Looking at those two deaths and seeing the headlines: Black Lives Matter. And then late Thursday night, seeing the headlines from Dallas, Blue Lives Matter. Speaking of the police.

And I thought all of America is hurting right now. And yes, we need to shout out All Lives Matter. And that's what I said yesterday. I tweeted that out. It's not racist to say all lives matter.

when you have policemen lying dead in the streets, shot and murdered in cold blood. It is going to be both and that we proclaim. It is not to denigrate. black suffering, it is not to denigrate unique challenges that black Americans face. Absolutely not.

But when you have atrocities like this taking place where law enforcement agents are murdered in cold blood. twice well actually happened uh several other attacks as well but then these these two these horrific bookends in Dallas and Baton Rouge of course I'm gonna shout out then all lives matter It's the context. It's the context and the larger sensitivity. Since I've constantly addressed questions of injustice when they've come up and discussed them on the radio and asked the hard questions, of course. I can freely then speak of these other issues as well.

Now in the second hour, I'm going to have on the air with me Heather MacDonald, who's written the book The War on Cops. And I think you'll be shocked by some of the information that she produces.

So if you're unable to listen live on the radio, just go to the website, ask Dr. Brown, ASKDR Brown.org, and you'll be able to listen there. Or just go to the website later today, and the entire two hours of broadcasting will be posted. But again, to me, The big Issue is that we are responsible in our speech. I want to know how the words I say affect you.

In other words, maybe I'm not recognizing your particular situation, and in what I'm saying, there's insensitivity, or maybe there's a blind spot on your end that I can point out, or maybe you might say, Mike, you don't intend to do this, but the results are this.

Well, these are things that are important. That's why. As a talker, as a preacher, and teacher, and radio host, etc., and author, I'm constantly weighing words. I'm constantly thinking: if I say this, what will it produce? I don't mean to please people.

I mean to be responsible before God. Eight six six three. Three for truth. Let's go to the phones and we will start in Baltimore, Maryland. Rodney, thank you so much for calling today.

Oh, you don't. I'm doing well. Thank you, sir. Um to answer the question, I believe it's a media problem. Mm-hmm.

Part of the reason why I believe it's a media problem is Some of the information that I've came across recently about how the media or the news people are conducting their news delivery is real questionable. And it's like with the different stuff that we see in the news about the quote unquote. police brutality whether you see it as brutality or not. They're like real minuscule. Yeah.

completely just All out wrong brutality to this out there.

So it's like, to a certain degree, it's like they're showing you certain things. And that leads me up to another part, which is the reason why I called. From the research that I did, right, and I've been like listening to people talking to people in other um cities and stuff like this. the shootout that we're being told about concerning the Baton Bruce thing? We're not being told the whole story.

The situation was the guy. Evidently had a shootout with somebody else. And when the piece showed up, He shot the police.

Now understand that I'm not making that an excuse because Based on a video that I saw that the guy had posted before he did this. He basically His body language and by the way he was talking, he pretty much figured: if I do shoot this guy that I want to kill. Police are going to lock me up, so I'm going to kill the police. I'm going to die out there on the streets.

So I don't think it's a matter of He wanted to go and attack the police department. The reason why I say it is because, first of all, Yeah. I know where my target is. I can just go to my target. He could have watched the local police department in his own town.

He could have watched the police department that was in Baton Rouge. But it happened on the street between him and another guy, and then the police showed up, and then he shooted at the police because, like a lot of criminals, They don't want to go to jail. But it's like the media is putting a spin on it, like it's this is a continuation of the Black Lives Movement. And just by just by a coincidence on his um video when he posted before he went to do the street. He said he's not associating with anybody.

Yeah, he'd been apparently in the Nation of Islam before, but said he's not affiliated. For him, this was quote justice. Hey, hey, Rodney, I've just got to jump in. First, I appreciate you highlighting the way the media can report things because there can be a sensationalizing. And often the goal of the media is not to bring understanding or to bring unity, but to get ratings, to get viewers.

In that sense, the more sensationalistic, the better. I had not heard from what I had read any of the narrative that you just mentioned, Rodney.

So let me not say anything until I dig a little deeper. Obviously, if you're out wearing body armor, you're expecting a war. Um the question, of course, is What influences someone in a society? You may not be officially affiliated. but what influences us, what's driving us.

But what we've got to do, we've got to do is sit down and say, hey, there's nothing between you and me, Rodney. There's nothing between me and my neighbor. And in other words, we can't let the world intrude between us. And we must say, okay, let us come together and talk and listen and learn and stand together for justice and stand together for reconciliation. Got a break.

Uh friends. We have had on many guests to address these issues as deeply and fairly as possible. Check out the archives of our past shows and we've got a tremendously important resource offer at a great, great discount. If you go to the website, check it out. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome back friends to the line of fire 866-34-TRUTH. I just read another report here. Officers were responding in Minnesota to a domestic disturbance report. And apparently, a Hispanic man came up to the officers sitting in his car, 31-year-old. officer with thirteen years of service.

He was shot multiple times, apparently saved by his bulletproof vest, and then they found the assailant dead by apparent suicide not far away. Is this related to the attack on police? Is this Unrelated. God knows those details, but right now. Mm.

There's uh Tremendous pressure. I'm police officers. Um And when you read the statement. The officer who was slain in Baton Rouge, the black officer who was slain in Baton Rouge. posted on Facebook.

just a few days earlier. said he was physically and emotionally tired. Expressed how difficult it was to be both a police officer and a black man. He said, I swear to God, I love this city, but I wonder if this city loves me. He said, I've experienced so much in my short life, and these last three days have tested me to the core.

It was posted July 8th. And he talked about the challenges he had in the black community as a police officer. the way that they would look at him because he was an officer. And then because he was a big black man, the way other people would look at him as if he was a threat, if he was just in civilian clothes.

So he understood both sides, both sides of things. He said, These are trying times. Please don't let hate infect your heart. And then he is shot dead on Sunday, 866-34Truth. We go to Woodbridge, Virginia.

Helen, welcome to the line of fire.

Well, thank you so much. I'm one of the people who is just dismayed. at the Yeah. proliferation of guns in this country. Um if we think that is the answer to our problems, we can all order a coffin for ourselves.

is to control our emotions. to learn to listen, to communicate, to interact to listen and to debate and de-escalate All these tenths of the Superman. because on the airways all you hear is a mouse mouse stop. Everybody wants to bend. Everybody wants to bend.

Yeah. But nobody comes up with solutions. Um My question was Um to the police department. Why are they ordered to Shoot to kill. Why not?

shoot in the foot or or shoot the tires out of a car.

something like that. Why should you care? That has always bothered me, not in any of the particular cases in the past, but over all the years.

So I think Police and communities. need to have a Day when they all meet together. together. Sit around. Talk, play games.

and went To each other. and have some sort of a rapport Rather than Ah, sort of a Friends between the two. The community and They have a fan thriver band. Uh they're my friends. you know, no, it's it's adversarial and it needn't be that way.

And just to jump in because I've got a break coming out. Number one, I... absolutely affirm what you're saying in terms of the needs to come together and i believe in some communities that's done more than others but obviously to the extent relationships can be built between the police and the communities and community leaders then they realize hey we're all on the same side we're trying to protect your neighborhood we're trying to protect your lives we're all on the same side as as for the shoot to kill from what i understand it's that in the heat of a an exchange you're just shooting to incapacitate it in other words you can't at that moment think i better aim here i better aim there but i've got someone that may have an answer to that in the second hour and i'll be sure to ask that question thank you helen for weighing in My website, askdart2brown.org, I give many points as to what we can do to bring about change. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire today. This is Michael Brown. As always, we are talking through the issues. We are being as constructive as we can. We are listening to one another.

One of the things that we've talked about today is there rhetoric that is provoking violence? Is there rhetoric that is provoking people to dangerous actions. Uh I'm I'm looking at some reports, some news from Israel. And from uh Jerusalem. News teens encouraged to aim for martyrdom on a roll.

Schools, Palestinian schools, have honor rolls that list students to reach certain grade levels or achievements. And cities sometimes even acknowledge the accomplishments of their local star performers.

So does the Palestinian Authority, which cites those who achieve martyrdom. 16 succeeded the martyrdom Shahada of the homeland and withstood its difficult tests. For death is the martyr is the path to excellence and greatness and the path of those who know how to reach the great victory, said Wafa, the official PA news agency. The encouragement to students was cited by the Palestinian Media Watch as well as the Middle Eastern Media Research Institute. In other words, saying, Hey, what level can you achieve, scholastically, what level can you achieve here?

And they're saying, hey, some people achieve the level of martyrdom.

Some people to the level of martyrdom. Look at that. In other words, killing Israelis. That is something that is to be. commend it.

This type of rhetoric, this type of bombardment of the senses with these foul images. hailing someone that murders Israelis in cold blood. This perpetuates the cycle of violence. And this leads to more death and destruction. Whenever our position on any subject is, be it the Israeli Palestinian conflict, be it the question of justice in America, be it the the question of dealing with Muslims, etcetera, Uh Whatever we say must be careful and calculated.

Otherwise, we could easily lead to destructive situations. We could lead to Unstable people carrying out acts of violence. We could lead to people who are perhaps more stable carrying out acts of violence. 8663. three four truth uh we go to the phones uh ilicia welcome to the line of fire Hi, Doctor Brown.

Hello? Hi, Doctor Brown. Hey, you know, I was so intent on making sure I pronounced your name right, I forgot to say you're calling from Newark, New Jersey. Thanks for the call. Yes, thank you.

Okay, I wanted to say, um, As an African American, as a Christian first. I wanted to say that uh Saying that all lives matter. Basically Uh our community is like It's like adding fuel to the fire. It's adding fuel to a fire that's already existed. Yes, rhetoric can cause certain things to happen.

it can cause people to become violent. It can indoctrinate you to hate. Yes, rhetoric can do that. But it it started somewhere. It didn't start with rhetoric.

It started in our communities where we feel like we're over policed You feel like we're the You know, black men are what, 6% of the population, but 30% of the police shooting. I'm not saying that The police are. All the police officers are bad. And I hurt with the families who any family who loses a loved one. We don't want to see anybody dying.

But I feel like, especially as a Christian, I kind of feel betrayed and rejected by the Christian community as a whole in America. betrayed and rejected That's one of the emotions I feel, even more so than anger, because I feel like. when Pastor Saeed Abdini was in Iran. I was signing petitions. We wanted justice.

It wasn't fair. We hurt with his wife. We hurt. We've heard of the people. We're told as Christians.

You know too. pray for, even pray for Israel, you know, we're against Anything that isn't fair, killing, why are you targeting people? But when we're being targeted in the streets, I see some of my white Christian friends saying, well, they shouldn't have resisted arrest.

So basically just overlooking the fact that, you know, The officers, their first prim their job is to protect us, not to over-police us. And then I see that A lot of my friends They just don't understand systematic racism. They believe because they're not racist. It's made up. We're making it up.

You know, we're just, we're angry. We're feeding into the media, which the media plays a huge role in it. I don't believe the media. It's for reconciliation. I believe the media has an agenda.

Because You know the stories that are playing out. are just so one-sided depending on what network you're watching. If I watch Fox News, I'm getting a whole different story. If I watch CNN, I'm getting a whole different and it's the same story.

So I believe they have an agenda. But at the end of the day, I do we feel what I feel. the most part and some people that I've spoken to personally Still rejected by the Christian community. How can you not see? The injustices that African Americans face in this nation, especially since we were brought here as slaves.

We're descendants of slaves. We don't even know where we come from. It's a huge continent. And then some people, I had one guy tell me, get over slavery. I would love to get over slavery if there wasn't systematic ju racism.

If there wasn't You know, it's the the Jim Crow laws. People don't even they I don't know, you know if they don't learn it in school or if they just don't know or they just don't care to know. But there's definitely a lot of injustice. And I wanted to say for my last statement that You know, the Christian community is really failing. They're really failing on this one.

like they're failing African Americans. And I also feel like the way we're responding as African Americans is also a failure. Because I saw myself getting so angry. That I started saying. Oh, I hate, I hate, I hate.

And God had to really, you know, comfort me. Yeah. comfort me because the way I was responding, it it wasn't golly. At all.

So I just wanted to say Christians here Where he in America? we have to come together because The injustices that have been happening to the black Americans since the founding of this country. The the injustices? It's already here for the Christian population. Yeah, let me just jump in.

Thank you so much for. For sharing your heart and for your candor and for being clear in your speech.

So let me ask you a couple of questions for clarity, okay? Do you get to listen to this broadcast much? I I love I love this show. Yeah. Okay, so d do you feel that I have Been insensitive, or that I have failed the African-American community in the way that we've discussed things on the air and tackled the issues.

Be totally honest with me. I'm going to be honest with you. No, I don't. And that's part of the reason why I still follow you on Facebook.

Okay. And I still comment on your posts. And I also still listen to the radio show. Got it. All right.

Well, okay. I'm glad to hear that because that helps you. And that's not flat. No, no, no. I don't think you're the type that would flatter, to tell you the truth.

I think you're going to shoot straight.

Okay, that gives me context.

So, in other words, if. If you were seeing this being done more broadly in the body of Christ, then you wouldn't feel this way. No, I would feel like healing had we had a chance. That's very important to hear. Here's where maybe you can help.

uh your white brothers and sisters okay What's helped me is hearing from so many African American listeners. Who are law-abiding people, church-going. Raising godly families, hardworking, and they tell me about the injustices they've experienced. They tell me about how they're treated differently as black Americans. I mean, I've heard it from so many.

And remember, it's only the tiniest fraction of people that call in.

So one person calling could be speaking for 10,000 others.

So that really helped deepen my understanding over the years. To tell me, okay, there's something I never experienced, but that many fine black Americans experience. And so, how much more, you know, is this something deeper in our psyche than we even realize? What often happens on the white side is this, and I'm speaking in broad generalizations. Say that the killing of Michael Brown and Ferguson last year and the whole hands-up, don't shoot.

From everything we understand, that's not what happened. It wasn't hands-up, don't shoot, which is why even the Department of Justice. didn't indict him. But he becomes like the poster boy, and then all these white Americans say, but that's not what happened. You know, the kid robbed the store, and it wasn't the narrative.

So, what has to happen is somehow, because there are cases where it's almost like hands-up, don't you? You know what I'm saying? There's no justification for the violence whatsoever. Those are the cases that we need to focus on. Because what happens is white Americans will say, ah, see, it's an exaggeration, it's not accurate, and so on.

You're thinking, okay, maybe that report is not accurate, but what about this and this and this and this? All right, stay right there. I want to grab another second on the other side of the break, but thanks for calling and being honest. I appreciate it. Shit.

The next time It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks for joining us on the line of fire. And thanks to my faithful listeners and callers. You enrich our broadcast every single week, 866-34TRUTH.

So, Alicia, just one more point. points and then I'll let you run. Whatever you can do. to continue to communicate with bright white brothers and sisters. to help us better understand your world, your experience.

That's be patient, okay? Because sometimes we just we never grew up with it, you know, never experienced it. I didn't grow up in a racist home, I didn't grow up in a racist community, you know, I was in mixed schools and different things like that, uh, at least at certain times, and um, it just was not on my radar. And then I've ministered in multicultural settings all my believing life. But we have blind spots and we don't know it.

And that's where if you just lovingly and patiently remind us of the blind spots. That's all the best. And then, you know, when you mentioned Pastor Saeed, there's a case: okay, here's a pastor, he's arrested in Iran. It seemed kind of like. absolutely clear injustice situation.

to the extent that you can find like Rosa Parks people. Um you know, there was another young lady that refused to to To give up her seat in the bus in the early days of the civil rights movement. And they were going to bring her forward, but it turned out that she was pregnant out of wedlock. And the leader said, if we put her forward, it's going to bring reproach. Rosa Parks was an older, mature woman, and good track record, and all of that.

So when she became the poster woman of the movement, everybody could kind of rally around it. And that I think is the problem sometimes. I'm just giving you an insight in terms of why you can get an insensitive white reaction. I'm not justifying anything, but just giving you that insight. Does that make sense?

You know, because we're just no, but that's not true. That's not accurate. And what you have to say is: okay, how about this kid, 13 years old, unarmed, in an apartment stairwell? Why was he killed? You know, and that let him be the poster boy, because I think we could rally around that all the better.

So let's work together. Amen. We'll make progress little by little. And thanks for being so candid. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Brown. God bless you. All right, 866-34-TRUTH.

Let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina. Betty, welcome to the line of fire. I Dr. Brown. Hey.

Make this very clear, but out more. I'm an old black person. I'm here to civil rights movement participated in the civil rights market. Can I get you to try to speak right into that phone? I'm having a hard time hearing you, and I want to hear what you have to say.

Can you hear me now? Oh, loud and clear.

Okay, I'm an older black person. I participated in civil rights marches. Remember, Dr. King. All the things that we've done is this.

Okay, but Our race has lost its way. We were godly people, every immoral thing that comes down the pipe, we latch onto it. We uh let let you come to these government uh uh these politicians programs for black people which only do do nothing but cripple them. the poison that they spute out, the hatred that they do. uh they'll never get over that because they bless God.

When you leave God out of your life, when you leave God out of your children's life, What you have is a heathenistic society that goes for white people, also. You can't teach children how to murder innocent people. babies in the womb and think they're gonna go out and respect life. That doesn't happen. You can't embrace every immoral sexual thing and think you're going to reap great harvests.

That's not going to happen. Until America returns back to Jesus Christ. There's no hope for this country. It's only going to get worse. And all we can do is pray for each other and show each other God's love.

You know, Betty, I I absolutely Appreciate what you have to say and affirm that Jesus is the solution, that the gospel. Principles of the solution, and that we have to look at this in a holistic way. It's always troubled me. That says, if you look at the stability of the black American family. Before the days of the civil rights movement, compared to after, there was much more family solidity.

There were many fewer children born out of wedlock. May I say one more thing, please? Please. Then I have to go. They took black men out of it away from their families.

To give programs and things to the women all abandoned by themselves to raise their families. and told them they would take over the hell. And what came in through their door was immoral things. And then they planted this Hollywood mantra that's telling women they didn't need a man, a man, you didn't need the father in the home. We needed all those things, what makes families work.

and Hollywood have portrayed our children as drive-by killers and pants down around their legs. their rap fingers and all that negative stuff that's infiltrated into these young people's lives. I advise every parent out there, get back into the Word of God. Get your children into a Bible-believing church and try to save their lives before it's too late. Thank you, Dr.

Brown, for letting me speak. Oh, thank you for speaking so loudly and clearly. Much appreciated. All right, friends. Let me add a few comments to what Betty just said.

This is what Reverend Jesse Peterson. was saying last week on the air. And if you listen to the shows Friday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, So the week before last and then That Friday, then Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of last week. The great majority of the shows focused on race relations on issues of justice and reconciliation. And we had quite a few callers.

whose sentiments were very similar to Alicia's. Comments and sentiments. And then we had some that had a different perspective that focused on the breakdown of the family. And Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson generated a lot of controversy. You can listen to my interview.

We put it up separately. We put the audio on YouTube. And you can find it just by going to askdrbrown.org, a-s-k-d-r-brown.org, and looking on latest videos there. But, but. His point is That Government programs, as Betty just said, took black man out of the family.

You're not there when the government comes by. This way, the mothers get certain payments and more per kid, and so on. that that lies at the root of the problem. And that then rather than practicing love and forgiveness for the very real injustices that have come against blacks through history, including recent history. Rather than practicing love and forgiveness, other groups stir up hatred and anger.

And then rather than solving the problem, it only gets worse. Check out my latest article. Is white America trying to keep black America down? Is white America trying to keep black America down? Check out my latest article.

It's at askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, latest article. And you'll see that I address these questions head-on. as honestly and as practically as I can. And I also give 10 reasons why Christians should lead the way in racial reconciliation. That's another recent article.

They're all there on the website, askdrbrown.org. Hey, on another practical note, have you ever wondered about how to hear the voice of God? Have you wondered about how to be led by the Holy Spirit? And to be guided by the Spirit working within you, and how that goes together with Scripture or dreams or prophecies or things like that.

Well, I've got a complete class, a teaching series I did on this, eight lectures, 12 hours. That we're virtually giving away this week. I mean, a remarkably low price, digital download in particular. Go to the website, check out this week's resource offer. You'll really benefit by it.

You'll find it practical and rich in Scripture.

So that's ask dr. Brown, a-s-k-d-r-brown.org. And you can download this special resource offer and be listening to it this very day. My bottom line. If we're going to grow together, we have to learn to listen to one another.

Another, humble yourself before God. and your brother and sister. The War on Cops. We're about to speak with an expert on that very subject. Uh It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. That's 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown.

We have been spending many hours on the Line of Fire broadcast. Talking about racial injustice, talking about reconciliation, talking about what is real, talking about what is perceived. And now, with more killing of cops, this time a black man killing two white police officers and a black police officer. and then wounding three others, one of them critically. The questions come before us, what's really happening?

What are the facts about police brutality? Where is dangerous rhetoric being used to stir up hostile emotions? A few days back I was online researching some things and came across an interview that Heather McDonald did on the Rush Limbaugh Show about a brand new book of hers, The War on Cops.

So I thought, all right, if Rush was promoting it, it's probably pretty hot right now. I went to Amazon and Lo and behold, there was the number two bestseller on Amazon. I immediately downloaded it, started to read it with real interest. Heather is the Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of this new book, The War on Cops.

She's a frequent media guest on Fox and CNN and other national programs. Heather, I know you're slammed with interviews. Thanks for taking a few minutes to join us today. Thank you for having me.

Now you have based your book on some massive research that's been done. You're coming at this from an academic viewpoint. Did you have any clue that when your book came out, it would suddenly be one of the hot topics in America?

Well, I certainly I think it's a very good idea. Particularly surprising. I'm deeply saddened and terrified by these cop shootings. Uh because They're just a more extreme version. of what officers are getting on the streets in urban areas every day now, thanks to the lies of the Black Lives Matter movement.

And The assassinations themselves. That we've had this summer. are also not new uh outcroppings of Black Lives Matter hatred because there were two cops assassinated. in december twenty fourteen in New York City, Under the same a pall of hatred that has been spread out there So what's happening now is just a logical conclusion to the narrative that's been put out there, which is that black Young black men. Yeah.

Lethal risk. from white officers. shouldn't be surprised. if uh given the constant fomenting of race, hatred and victimology by the academic, establishment by the media establishment that people are turning now to violence and it's just a a terrifying, terrifying moment for this country. Mm.

We've just got a minute before this first break, but you speak of the lies. of Black Lives Matter? Give me a for instance.

Well white and Hispanic homicide victims are killed by police officers. Then then black homicide victims 12% of all all whites and Hispanics. who die by homicide, are killed by cops, Compared to four 4% of black homicide victims who are killed by cops.

So if we're going to have a anti-COP Lives Matter movement, it would make more sense to call it White and Hispanic lives matter. Mm-hmm. Alright, so you feel then that even if Black Americans can give anecdotal evidence from their own experience, their own upbringing, that somehow. things are being wrongly falsely inflamed and that studies indicate that things are being wrongly and falsely inflamed. Absolutely.

could end all shooting. tomorrow. have a negligible effect. on uh the black death by Homicide rate. The officers have Shave.

tens of thousands of black lives over the last two decades thanks to proactive policing they're the most Black Lives Matter government agency, we've got. All right, we'll be right back with Heather McDonald, the book, The War on Cops. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I'm speaking with author Heather McDonald's. He's the Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. To find out more, go to manhattan-institute.org. backslash war on cops, the new book, national best-selling book, The War on Cops.

Heather, right before the break, you said that the police have been the number one force in Black Lives Matter for years rather than demonizing them or villainizing them, vilifying them, that we should recognize the lives they're saving. What happened in New York City under Ruli Giudiani and what's happened now under Mayor de Blasio?

Well, in nineteen ninety, there were two thousand two hundred and forty five homicides in New York City. In twenty fourteen, there were three hundred and thirty-three. That's a drop of eighty-five percent. virtually unprecedented and unmatched in the country. And what happened was when Mayor Giuliani was elected in 1994, Policing was revolutionized at Yeah.

It it it the cops embraced an unprecedented mission, which is to actually prevent crime rather than just respond to it. And they became data-driven. held commanders accountable for crime in their jurisdictions, and they asked officers To become proactive, to go out and make. stops at 1 a.m. on of a known drug corner if he sees the suspect hanging out Hitching up his waistband as if he has a gun, get out of your car and ask a few questions rather than just drive on by.

Yeah. to get shot. and this revolution that came to be known as the Comstat revolution. Spread nationalism. and policing across the country.

became data driven and accountable and we the the nation is a whole whole had a 50% crime drop that's now at risk. officers are backing off of proactive policing. and crime is going up, something that I've dubbed the Ferguson effect. in New York City Uh Mayor Bill de Blasio. ran uh for mayor Attacking the And putting out lies very similar to what President Obama says which is that officers are a threat to his biracial Dante de Blasio.

This is preposterous. Dante de Blasio or any other young black men today faces a minute chance of being shot by a police officer. The risk to urban males Today overwhelmingly from other blacks. As of July 19th, this year there have been a whopping 2090 people shot. uh the police Chicago police have shot nine people Virtually all of them armed and resisting arrest.

That's 0.4% of all shootings. in Chicago. Uh the the people that are gunning down children. A three-year-old boy shot on Father's Day is now paralyzed for life. three children under the age of 11.

shot on fo on fourth of July. They're being They're black kids and they're being killed by other blacks. And you're saying that with the proactive policing that Rudy Giuliani helped implement, that that saved many, many, many black lives. And when you speak. the math, I mean if if homicides had remained at their nineteen nineties levels And the vast majority of people being victimized by homicide.

in New York City are black. If we had had two Each year. Yeah. without bringing it down yeah, ten thousand minority males would be dead today who are alive today thanks to the policing revolution that began in New York City and spread nationwide. And what exactly then do you mean by the Ferguson effect, obviously with reference to the hands-up, don't shoot rhetoric that went out with the the death of my namesake, Michael Brown and Ferguson last year.

What's the Ferguson effect? The Ferguson effect is the combined phenomenon of officers backing off of proactive policing. and crime going up in big cities uh last year with with large black populations. Homicides in Increased anywhere from 54% in Washington, D.C. to 90% in Cleveland.

Uh this should be I hope I hope uh Donald Trump makes this a major theme of his speech tonight, that when officers back off of proactive politics. leasing Black lives are lost.

Okay. And there are major studies that you based your book on. And there were some surprising facts that were uncovered in the studies. What about the likelihood of a black officer? pulling the trigger on a black suspect as compared to a white officer doing the same.

Yes, it's remarkable. It completely upsets the Yeah. The Black Lives Matter meme of white off, bad white officer, innocent black suspect. The Justice Department. department, no less, came out with a study in March 2015.

looking at the Philadelphia police officer. police department. And found that black and Hispanic officers were more likely than white officers. to shoot an unarmed black person Under the mistaken impression that Mm-hmm. had a gun.

the acting director of the National Institute for Justice. Found that in the New York Police Department, black officers are 3.3 times more likely to. to use their weapons at shooting scenes than white officers.

Okay. And, Heather, last question. You're again approaching this from an academic viewpoint. You obviously care. You made reference to being terrified by what you're seeing now, but you've got degrees from Yale and Stanford University Law School.

You've testified before U.S. House and Senate committees. But I imagine that your work is not just being responded to in an academic way. Are you getting some visceral, hateful responses because your narrative is going against the grain of what we're hearing? Oh, absolutely.

I am I am absolutely demonized by academics. by the media, the Black Lives Matter Chapter in Austin doxed me, a term I hadn't heard of before, but that what means to post my personal information on the web, my home address and home phone number. With the Message. racist journalism. Don't get a pass.

Yeah. So yeah, no, I this is um This is a true war out there.

Okay. people who support the cops are are also in the crossfire. Did you know this might happen when you put the book out? Um Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's nothing more risky today than questioning the lie that America remains a profoundly racist society.

There's too many people. with an investment in in racial victims. etymology.

Well, Heather, especially in that light, I appreciate your courage in putting this out. I found the book tremendously eye-opening, and the more readers, the more serious discussion it gets, the best. Thanks so much for joining us. I appreciate it, Michael. Thank you.

Thank you. All right.

Uh friends. Listen to the specifics. Listen to the specifics. without reacting look into the the points that are raised. And then come to your own conclusions.

Again, the book, The War on Cops, the author Heather McDonald.

So to just review Some stats that she mentioned. Under Rudy Giuliani's leadership, in New York City. The homicides dropped from 2,245 a year. down to 333. a drop of eighty five per cent.

And it was by proactive policing.

Now, we had a black officer call the show a few days back. and say that Racial profiling is different than prejudicial profiling. In other words, he gave this example, It's two in the morning. You are in a heavy black Drug area. A white guy comes in pulls up in his car at two in the morning, gets out of the car runs up into an apartment, comes back down two minutes later.

What are you thinking? Probably drug purchase. What else is that white guy doing there in and out of an apartment 2 in the morning? This is the example the officer gave. You then, the officer then goes up to that person.

Excuse me, what were you doing here? Oh, I work such and such a place. My colleague can't come in. He's got a hard drive, a flash drive I need it for work.

So I just came by to pick it up. Here it is. I was in apartment 2C, etc. And okay, all clear, good.

So he said that would be proper profiling. In other words, something looks suspicious. Based on the color of this person's skin at this time in this neighborhood, something looks suspicious, so we're going to check it out. Prejudicial profiling, though, would be where you say, I want to hand, you start to mistreat the person, you start to immediately find them guilty, you don't even check the thing out, and you are looking at them through biased eyes. That would be different.

That would be different. I've been to Israel many times, and especially when you fly El Al. They're going to question you, and suddenly you feel uncomfortable, and they're starting to probe you. And you're just going there for a trip. You know, you're going there with friends or family.

You're going for me, I'm going there to speak at congregations or something. And next thing, I mean, they're and it's true if my skin was a certain color, if I look more Arab. And if I had a certain accent. And if they found the slightest thing in my story they weren't comfortable with, the next thing they might be taking my luggage report. Literally.

Taking it apart. And it saves lives.

So, is there a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things? And. Heather McDonald has all this data. You might say, hey, she has the data, but I got my life experience. What are you going to tell me about my life experience?

I get treated differently because I'm black.

So the discussion continues. The discussion continues. But if by effective policing, homicides were cut down, and most of those homicides would have been against black Americans, haven't the police then saved many black lives? Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. Say It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I heard about how XJP and YU Try to make some statements on their Facebook page that. Accused The Israeli government of somehow being In cahoot with what's going on with regards to the conversation about racial injustice in America. uh with regards to police brutality in the African American community. And I'm just like Thinking to myself like, wait a minute, SJP. Let's be real.

The majority of people in your organization or are Arabs. Let's be real. Today, Arabs still engage in the African slave trade. Yeah. That is Chloe Simone Valderi.

She's a pro-Israel political activist, Zionist, and African-American. She is a Robert L. Bartley Fellow at the Wall Street Journal. And she's commenting on some post from the Students for Justice in Palestine. Are you ready for this?

Are you ready? Mm-hmm. This was posted on Facebook, July 7th. In the past 48 hours, another two black men have been lynched by the police. The total number of black people lynched by cops in 2016 now totals 136.

We must remember that many U.S. police departments train with the Israeli Defense Forces. The same forces behind the genocide of black people in America are behind the genocide of Palestinians. What this means is that Palestinians must stand with our black comrades. We must struggle for their liberation.

It is as important as our own. Alton Sterling is as important as Ali Dawab Shah. Palestinian liberation and black liberation go together. We must recognize this and commit to building for it. Talk about a statement that is riddled with error from beginning to end.

And I appreciate Chloe Valdari. Pointing out that there are Arabs still engaging in slave trade from Africa. Yeah, there are Muslim countries. that quite openly practice slavery. And slavery of of Africans quite openly.

It's in So I appreciate her. Taking exception to that. But Yeah. To refer to someone being lynched When you have A battle, someone resisting arrest, allegedly going for a gun and then being shot.

Now, whether that's the facts or not, God knows the details. But you compare that to some being quote, Lynched. and then to speak of the genocide of black people. There is no genocide of black people except in the womb. Except in the womb.

That's where there's genocide taking place, and that's where all Americans need to stand up together and say, let us help stop this genocide. It is a satanic assault on the African American community. And there's no genocide of Palestinians. The Palestinians who don't want to murder Israelis are thriving. Palestinians who don't want to murder Israelis have more freedoms than anybody else in the Middle East.

They've grown from 200,000 to 1.5 million in Israel. They are in the parliament, the Israeli Knesset. They serve on the Israeli Supreme Court. They have levels of position and influence throughout the country. Yeah.

Yeah. All right, let's listen to another comment from Chloe. We'll grab clip number 10 as she continues to interact with some of these statements. Here you are trying to critique and trying to denigrate another minority group, but you don't understand that African American history is such that when we marched and when we preached and when we spoke, we spoke with a language that was informed and cultivated. in the Jewish community.

We spoke with a language and a rhetoric. That was very much rooted in Jewish texts and in Jewish identity. And so for you to like try to. Write some on your Facebook page and try to like. inject this this racial animosity Is ironic, number one, because you don't know anything about black history.

That's obvious. You don't know the role that Israel, as an idea, as a symbol, played not only in our community as a collective, but specifically in Dr. King's speeches. But moreover, like, y'all. are the same people whose people are trafficking slaves in the Arab world today.

Yeah. Great points. In fact, we've got one more clip. And let's see. We'll just go to clip number 11, Joey.

This is great stuff. I I just think that's kind of critical and like You know. Ironic. that y'all think that y'all could yell stuff and write stuff that makes no sense whatsoever, that is disrespectful of my people's history, that is disrespectful of the legacy that we have. and at the same time still belong to a people.

Who Or enslaving black people. I just like legitimately, there are Ethiopian Israelis in Gaza today that are still. Held by Hamas. Like Where you at, fam? Where you at?

Like, like, you wanna talk about that or no? That doesn't really fit into your whole narrative, that doesn't fit in your paradigm? Of course not. Because to admit that the people you love, that the terrorist organizations that you like are all buddy-buddy and you're like, they're not terrorists, they're freedom fighters, whatever. Those same quote-unquote freedom fighters are literally engaging in the African slave trade.

Today. And you want to exploit my people's history? You want to exploit Jewish people's history, and you want to twist it and turn it into something that you can use for your own political gains. No, ma'am, not gonna happen.

Well done, Chloe. in refuting the rhetoric, the nonsensical rhetoric of The students for justice in Palestine. Oh, where there is injustice, let's address it. But for them to say, Oh, we're standing with black Americans, then basically you're saying that black Americans calling for justice are on a par with Hamas trying to kill Israelis. Not the kind of equation that Some black leaders want those who understand what the rhetoric is saying.

And then, yes, let's point out the slave trade that goes on in parts of the Muslim world to this day. most often exploiting Africans. All right, friends. As always, our goal is to be constructive. As always, our goal is to inform and equip.

if I ever say anything that makes you uncomfortable, Do the same thing as I do when you say something that makes me uncomfortable. Ask yourself, as I ask myself, is it true? Could it be that what this person is saying is accurate? And before you dismiss something out of hand, Often, it's good to see how much truth there is. how much accurate information there is in what the other person might be saying.

Maybe someone says to me, Hey Mike, have you seen this verse in the Bible? You know, I've been studying it the last year. and and I've studied it intensely in the original languages and and and I believe I have some insights and they tell me the insights and I immediately say, nah, it's not what it says.

Well, wait, have I even studied it for a minute? Maybe if they stayed in there for a year They're seeing something I'm not seeing because I only studied it for a minute. Or maybe your life experience is such that you can talk to me with some authority, or vice versa.

So, this is what we do on the line of fire: we commit to listening to each other, learn from each other, grow together.

Sound good? All right, we've got a lot more. Stay with us. Mm-hmm. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

One of the things we have done from our very first days on the radio is tackle the controversies. And that's what we've done for years before that. which means we're going to wade into uncomfortable waters. wade into difficult situations. wade into things that could potentially offend But do it in a way that glorifies the Lord, that's honorable, that speaks the truth and love, and that listens.

As well as speaks. And by God's grace, we built trust with our listeners. By God's grace, we have had. lots of fruitful discussions that have been tremendously helpful and edifying. And we've had many guests on to talk about many different issues from many different perspectives.

People, I agreed with every word. People I didn't agree with a single word, people somewhere in between. And that's part of the discussion, part of what we do here on the broadcast. I am never trying to provoke things for the purpose of listener ratings, God forbid. I am never trying to do something on the air that's going to be sensationalistic.

Just to get people to listen. That's immature, that's carnal. Will raise issues, and if it's a controversial issue and more people listen, great. I believe we have something to say. But the goal is to be constructive.

The goal is to advance understanding. I got a call from an African-American woman. Oh, a little less than an hour ago, earlier on the broadcast. This is Michael Brown, the number to call to get in the discussion today: 866-34 Truth. 866-348-7884.

Four. And she was an African-American woman from New Jersey, and she felt like the body of Christ has let down the African-American community. She felt that there's not been understanding, there's not been empathy, there's not been a standing together for justice. And then I asked her, Did she feel that way about me in the broadcast? She said, No, that's why I still listen.

That's why I interact with your Facebook posts.

So that was helpful for me to hear. Because if she said the same thing to me That would have troubled me because I believe before the Lord we've sought to address difficult, divisive issues with compassion, with understanding. and to feel the pain and the frustration of the body If ac across the board. And that we've learned from each other and listened to each other. That was really helpful for me to hear.

At the same time, I understand. That there are things we're going to say on the air that there's no way you're always going to agree with me, or I'm always going to agree with you.

So the question is as as we have more bloodshed now. And as we see the blinding power of hatred here, you have a black man. who murders three people and wounds three others, one critically. and of the three police officers that he kills, two are white and one is black. And there's a picture we have on Facebook of the black cop with his little baby boy.

to to show the blinding power of hatred. We're in a very volatile situation here in America. And we're committed to continuing to address the issues here on the line of fire. but to do so in a way that brings light and not just heat. and to do so in a way that is responsible so that what we cultivate is an attitude of greater love towards God and a greater love towards our neighbor.

A few days ago, We had on the broadcast. Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson.

Now, earlier in that same broadcast, we had on Janet Boynes, African-American minister. And she wanted to talk about the lack of understanding in much of the white church to the struggles of black Americans. We had Professor George Yancey on, African-American professor, talking about transcending racial barriers, and Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson on, who basically said that the whole idea of racism is a myth, which is a controversial statement, but I believe I understand what he's saying behind it. And then said that Black Lives Matter is worse for the black community than the Ku Klux Klan. Obviously.

This was upsetting to some, and I said, Well, I have to bring you back on so my listeners can interact with you for a whole hour, and he's willing to do it. but I got an interesting call. I came into our voicemail at our office. And I said, I'm going to play this. I'm going to play this for everybody to hear, and then we're going to interact together.

So stay tuned. A caller is about to weigh in. It's fire we want, for fire we please to stand the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

All right, I want to play this clip from a caller. And actually had my assistant reach out to him and they had a great chat.

So this is not from a critic of the radio show. This is from a friend of the radio show. But he was very unhappy with my guest, Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson. Listen to what he had to say. The guest he had on the Yeah, you can Inflammatory.

Um this back man does not represent anyone but himself. I had someone to shoot my radio and I'm a Christian. Yeah. So, I don't know, it's This guy's Very inflammatory. I wish that someone would just put a stock in his mouth and shut him up.

He Nobody agrees with me. No black person in the United States, you could probably find on one hand how many people think the way this person does, and if he's a doctor, It just goes up showed it. Um everyone with a degree doesn't have common thing. No one feels the way this guy feels. The data he gives is inaccurate.

It's not supported by any feelings about the black community.

So where did Dr. Brown dig this guy up? is the question. I mean, I have a lot of respect for doctor Brown. This guy that's on the show today He's an idiot.

He's Nobody in the black community agrees with this guy. Oh. He's very inflammatory.

So, if that's what he was going for, he he succeeded. Um, and if he wants to get somebody on that express some views that black people don't have he succeeded. I'm very disappointed in doctor Brown today. Thank you. Hey, so I so appreciate someone taking the time to call and to share that.

So, here's what I want to discuss with you. All right, here's what I want to discuss with you. Uh number one. Jesse Peterson is not doctor, he's reverend. Uh number two He's been on Media quite frequently.

He had been on the Kelly files with Megan Kelly the night before. I was part of a panel discussing Black Lives Matter. And uh so he's he's well known in that respect.

Now interestingly, interestingly. Uh we got The the phones lit up. Yeah, the phone lines lit up, and I was only able to get to one call, one conversation with one caller, and we were out of time.

So that's why I said to Reverend Peterson, let's do this again for the purpose of my callers being able to interact with you over the course of an hour.

So we just have to set that up and make sure that we time it appropriately in terms of. Um There are times when it's going to be best to do it and times not best to do it, depending on what's happening in the world of news. But hopefully, we can do that within the next few weeks. And again, the purpose is that you, our listeners, can weigh in. uh with him directly.

There's no question that the way he says certain things can be inflammatory. There's no question. Is that his goal? I don't know. I do know his message is that the Al Sharptons and the Jesse Jacksons of this world, have made the situation in black America worse.

that when you play into victimhood And when you provoke anger, that you don't solve the problems. that the solution to the problems not the welfare system and not to take the black man out of the family. and then incentivize the the families to not have the male presence there so that there can be more money coming in. Rather the solution is offer love and forgiveness. towards white Americans that have sinned against black Americans.

Be it in slavery, be it in segregation, be it in injustices since then. to offer love and forgiveness. to rebuild the family. To mentor young black men to help them be leaders of their families and communities, which is a major thing that he engages in. and to not fall into an entitlement mentality or a victim mentality.

That would be what he argues for. And in his book, The Antidote, he really lays that out well. In other words, what he presents as the solution Christ-centered solution. And one that It kills the flesh. and one that uh causes people to step into something higher and better.

Now, I again I understand how statements he's made could could sound incendiary. or it could be incendiary, or it could be inflammatory. And we'll have to ask him, does he say it for that purpose or does he say it because he's convinced it's accurate?

Now, there are plenty of listeners. who agree with that clip that I just played from that caller. Plenty of listeners. Would agree wholeheartedly, and say, Yeah, where'd you dig this guy up, and he doesn't speak for anybody I know. There are others, though, I can think of a call just earlier this broadcast about almost an hour ago.

From an older black woman named Betty in Charlotte. And she. was basically pointing a finger at that those trying to stir up anger. and saying the whole problem is in the broken homes. And the homes have been broken because of the whole welfare system.

and getting the man out, no, she repeated almost verbatim without hearing it. She repeated almost verbatim. What Jesse Lee Peterson had said. Got another call, if I remember, from Denise in Houston. And she another African-American called and she said, look, what I'm going to say is not going to be popular, but.

And this was maybe two weeks before, or excuse me, a week before Jesse Peterson. She said the elephant in the room that no one's talking about is the breakdown of the family. And she said, we have to rebuild our families, and then things will change in society around us.

Now, I just wrote an article. You can read it by going to my website, askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. and read my latest article. Do white Americans want to keep black Americans down? And my conclusion is that in a large-scale societal way, I don't believe that's the sentiment or desire.

A large-scale societal intentional way. In generations past, under segregation, slavery, and perhaps in some parts of America today. There are those, and certainly many individuals, That wants to keep black Americans down. But is that a national sentiment? A national desire.

Something that corporate America desires, corporate white America, I personally say absolutely no. You say, well, hang on. We look at other minorities. like Jews, less than 2% of the population. There was discrimination against Jews in the past in America.

Uh there there was um Harvard University tried to keep a quota so that the number of Jews would be down. The President wanted to do that and was Was uh overruled. But there has been there were there were peaches, you know, would say no coloreds, no Jews, things like that. There has been discrimination and yet Jews have And then the terrible suffering in Europe, the Holocaust. the slaughter of two-thirds of European Jews, and yet Jewish Americans have overcome uh discrimination opposition and risen to the top in every area of American society.

Same with Asian Americans, and think of the mistreatment of Japanese during World War II here in America. And the prejudices that would arise against other Asian Americans, and particularly Japanese, and yet they've overcome and are at the top in so many ways. Uh And then We've had callers who are recent immigrants from Africa. as one caller called himself a triple-African African American from Tanzania and Kenya. They've come over to America.

And they fared much better. They have done better educationally, they have done better vocationally. And they said, oh, yeah, our situation is very different from our black brothers that have been here through the generations.

So what is it then? that's keeping black Americans down. That have been here through the generations. Why? say the average income for a black American family Maybe Like one-third of the average income of a Jewish family or a Hindu family.

They're at the top of the list in America. Why is that? How can that be? To me, it's the system. It is the welfare system and this entitlement victimhood mentality that's been breeded saying it's up to the government to fix things for you, and this welfare system that has contributed directly to the breakdown of the American family.

because the black American family was much stronger. much more stable. In the days before civil rights They after. You think how can that possibly be? it should be the opposite.

Yeah, but I believe the policies have kept the people down.

Now, were the policies. The the the goal of the policies to keep black Americans down?

Some say yes, some say that the the policies of Lyndon Baines Johnson and others, the the the the civil uh the the welfare packages and things like that that that was another way, an overt attempt to keep black Americans down. I don't look at it that way. I look at it as a misguided attempt to repent of the sins of segregation and all the injustices that were taking place.

So it's systemic. But it's not systemic in terms of primarily in people's hearts. or intentional policies It's systemic as far as faulty systems. In any case, these are my perspectives. These are discussions we need to.

continue to have But at this point, with so many Americans grieving, with so much pain and upheaval. We need to come together. We need to renounce all rhetoric on all sides that leads to hatred, anger, or, God forbid. Violence. And We need to move forward as the body of Christ leading the way in calls for justice and calls for racial reconciliation.

We'll be right back. Hey, this is Michael Brown. I want to invite you to join me for our second ever trip to Israel, February 25th through March 6th, 2017. This is a great opportunity I get to interact with you, our radio listening audience, and our ministry partners as we experience the land of Israel together and it will be a life-changer. We've got a great price on the trip.

And if you're one of our monthly supporters or torch bearers, you're eligible to receive a special discount for this once-in-a-lifetime experience. Space is limited, and we're accepting applications on a first-come, first-served basis. For more information on the trip to secure your spot, go to askdrbrown.org, click on the Israel banner, or call our office at 704-782-3760. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

It is time for folks across party lines, across ideological lines, to condemn this violence, to condemn this insanity. We've got to come together. We've got to say that all lives matter. It doesn't matter what color you are, black, white, brown, red, it doesn't matter. All lives matter.

We've got to protect and value our political. You know that that phrase you just used is one that's seen by many as derogatory, right? And I just wonder why it is that you use that phrase when there's a certain segment of the population that believes it's a real dig on them. That was Shep Smith taking exception to Governor Bobby Jindahl. Speaking of all lives matter, I tweeted out yesterday.

I tweeted out yesterday. Let me find the exact quote. With policemen being gunned down in the streets, don't tell me it's racist to say all lives matter. There is a time to say certain things without question. when when the black community is is in pain.

and crying out and saying it feels like our lives don't matter. It feels like the nation doesn't care. It feels like our lives can just be trash and no one cares at all. To say, well, but all lives matter. No, that would be insensitive.

That would be denigrating. But when you now have cops laying there dead in the streets, killed in cold blood, ambushed. When you have that It's, I believe, important to shout out together. In that context, all lives matter. in a concerted way to stand together For justice.

for all. That's what I mean by it.

Now, I just tweeted out a poll earlier. Let's see. It's. Maybe an hour ago, hour and a half. In light of the recent killing of cops, is it racially insensitive to say all lives matter?

87% say no, 13% say yes. But demographically on my Twitter feed or demographically if we look at black Americans compared to the rest of the population That could be about 13%. Does this uh I I wonder, this is the one thing I don't know in the voting who's voting which way. if overwhelmingly white said not insensitive, blacks said Yes, insensitive, that would be very interesting. That would be insightful.

Uh if that was not the case, And blacks overwhelmingly said, no, in this case, it's not racially insensitive to say. All lives matter. And they were a good part of the 87%. That would be enlightening as well. And I put these questions out to try to understand where people are coming from and to try to get into the hearts and minds of those whose background may be different than mine.

866-34TRUTH. We go to Brooklyn, New York. Jeremiah, welcome to the line of fire. God bless you, Dr. Brown.

I appreciate your Program, and I think God for you. And the way God uses you. I have one thing to say. I have a problem with this issue. My problem with this issue is this.

I was born in East New Georgia in the ghetto. My mother always used to say You never just because you're born in the ghetto doesn't mean you have to have the mentality of the ghetto.

Well my question is this. Every time a white cop has a situation with a black person And and I'm not seeing it in a bad way. But They always use the word is a racist issue. I have a lot of black African American friends that they use that to play with it. You have a lot of people that were in the time of slavery that went through that situation.

But the African American group today was not there back in slavery time. But even though that they weren't there, they still screamed as a racist issue.

Now my thing is this. Why is it when a black person shoots a black mother when her child is in a stroller, when she her baby got shot by an African American, Or when a person got beat up in the street of New York by two African Americans, why can't they scream the same way? With that issue, as when a cop Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and Jeremiah, what's your own ethnicity? I'm Hispanic.

I'm Puerto Rican. I've had Spanish people gotten shot. And when we get persecuted or anything, you don't hear the Puerto Rican people saying, oh, you know, it's a racist Puerto Rican thing. But when it comes to black African American, I listened to a pastor called James David Manning, from behind him. And I've heard of him.

How he speaks on his own people. And it's true. In Brooklyn, they put up a statue. A biggie small. A drug theater.

But you can just statue in his commemoration. Yeah, Jeremiah, just to say this, and I haven't heard the pastor of whom you spoke, let me just say a couple of things. Uh many Americans Of all color have raised the same issue. I've had black callers on my show raise the same issue. Where is the outrage in our community when a three-year-old child gets shot?

I had a guest on earlier talking about gang violence, and here's a three-year-old paralyzed for life. Where's the outrage? And some have said, look, we're upset about that. But we're dealing with that internally. It's when we feel something's happening to us in the system.

Is failing us that we raise our voices.

So I understand that perspective. The key thing is. Where are the majority of lives being taken? Where are the greatest number of casualties? And what's interesting is that studies indicate that it's 3.3 times more likely for a black cop to shoot a black suspect As it is for a white cop to shoot a black suspect.

So, what I think we have to do, Jeremiah, is do our best to get all the facts on the table. hear one another out. Just as you're calling passionately and explaining things. To hear one another out and to see, okay, where is there race baiting taking place on any side? Where is there divisive speech taking place on any side?

Where Is there A mentality of victimhood being cultivated. Where is anger being stirred to the point of violence on any side? Let's all work together against that. And let's commit Where there is injustice, we'll address it. And where there is misunderstanding, we'll bring clarification, and we're committed.

To get the truth out. No matter what, whether people like it or not. Hey, Jeremiah, thanks for calling in. I do appreciate it. Friends, Make sure you take advantage of the articles on the website that deal head-on with these issues in the most practical ways.

So Ask Dr. Brown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, latest articles and videos. And friends, you'll find, you'll find the. Resource offered this week, tremendously helpful. If you've ever wondered about how to be led by the Spirit, how to hear the voice of God, how to be guided by God, practical biblical teaching, we're almost giving it away.

Go to the resource page, askdrbrown.org. My bottom line today. on our knees, on our faces, crying out to God.