America Pushes Back, and New Life Out of Lesbianism

Well, I said that 2015 would be the year of pushback, and of course, it is continuing now in 2016. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth.

That's 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey, just to let you know, we are going to give some books away in the next few minutes that will be a blessing to you.

So stay right by your phones, 866-348-7884. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. A bunch of things I want to talk to you about today. Most importantly, how the culture wars are far from over. Most importantly, how the church and how conservative institutions are pushing back.

And how we can make a difference regardless of who ends up being our president in the years ahead. Before I get into that, I want to mention a couple of other things. I I said on the air about the whole Melania Trump plagiarism issue that to me, the idea that someone would plagiarize from Michelle Obama's 2008 speech, so the presidential nominee's wife in the Democratic Party 2008, now you're going to have the presidential nominee's wife of the Republican Party 2016, that you're going to plagiarize that and think nobody's going to notice it.

Something's Something suspicious about that. I I couldn't see that happening. I also couldn't see that this wasn't plagiarism because when you watch the side-by-side video, I mean, they've got them like interspersed one next to the other. You can't deny that Michelle Obama's words are being used. Although they're generic and things that other people would say, the way they're said, it's clearly.

taken from that speech.

So the explanation that's now been given By the Trump speech writer is woman said, Yeah, been a long-term. A speechwriter for the Trump organization. I spoke with Melania Trump about the speech. She said there were things she wanted to say. And that she had admired Michelle Obama for a long time.

And here are some quotes, here are some things from Michelle, some themes that she wanted to use, and put them in. And the speechwriter incorporated them without thinking, I should check the actual speech to see if this is verbatim or what. That makes perfect sense to me.

Now, yes, you could have checked the original speeches and said, Where did you get these from? But talking over the phone with Melania, that's what happened. That would make sense to me, because otherwise, intentional. Knowing plagiarism of something so obvious in a parallel situation, that makes no sense to me. And it couldn't have just been.

coincidence that the same words were used. Actually That's a totally viable explanation. Oh.

So actually, no big deal, and interestingly. that did share Milani Trump's heart. Just for the record.

Okay, one other thing. I'm holding in my hands five copies.

Well, I've got one in my hand and four on the table here. I've got in my hands the book by Nick Hall, Reset. Jesus changes everything. with forward by Josh McDowell, Luis Palau. and Ravi Zacharias.

Highly praised book from many, many different quarters. And apparently, something like 350,000 people gathered in Washington, D.C. on Saturday for a special event.

Some of the people I mentioned, like Josh McDowell, Robbie Zachariah, spoke at the event. The the few parts that I watched were quite centered on getting people back into the word. getting people back to sharing their faith. Josh McDowell gave an incredible talk and opened up about some things in his life I had never heard him talk about. Maybe he always does.

I had just never heard that kind of unreal to hear him speak so openly about what he experienced as a boy and homosexual rape that he experienced and so on. Mm-hmm. It was amazing stuff. But I saw that there was controversy about the event. I posted on Facebook and Twitter: hey, glad to see this is happening with a link.

And some people went ballistic, very upset with the event. Are you kidding me? Why would that be? We're going to talk about that, but... Nick and the publisher were kind enough to send me five books of reset Jesus changes everything.

We come back, I'm going to start giving them away. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Alright, let's give a copy of Reset away. By the way. It's a hardcover book And part one, the setup, part two, hitting reset, reset my faith, reset my plans, reset my self-image, reset my relationships, reset my purity, reset my habits, reset my affections, reset my generation.

So, a great read. Let's just see. Oh, Toby Mack. Says, I have no doubt reset will leave an undeniable mark for the gospel. I don't know why I'm trying to sell this to you, I'm giving it away.

So, the first one we're going to make real quick: caller number six. Call number six. 866-348-7884. A copy of Reset by Nick Hall is yours as a gift from Nick. And the publisher, MultNoma, 866-348-7884.

All right. Let me tell you why. Uh By the way, I always enjoy watching phones ring off the hook for special offers.

So we do have a winner. We do have a winner. But hang in there. I'm going to be giving away more books.

So stay tuned. We do have a winner, though. Thank you. Here's what concerned me. And it is a certain critical attitude.

that in the words of Jesus strains out a gnat, but swallows a camel. In other words, in the ancient world, with things being so much more out in the open, and there are plenty of places I've spoken now it's like this. You can get flies and all kinds of bugs in your in your drinks, so you'd have a strainer, strain the stuff out, and then you could drink accordingly without swallowing the gnat. or the fly.

So Jesus said you're straight out of gnat, but you swallow a camel.

So here's a gathering with hundreds of thousands of people coming together. The event had to be cut short because of the heat. But hundreds of thousands of people gathered together for this event. You've got some of the finest speakers in the body of Christ who are going to be there. people who are exalting Jesus, people who are pointing others to the scriptures.

And The whole purpose of the event is not celebrity, it's not to lift up a man. If you saw Nick Hall leading it, the last thing on his mind is being the big shot there. That just seemed evident from how he conducted himself and everything else. And um all right, so Brian Schmidt. Of Mithlothian, Virginia is our winner.

Brian, congratulations. Again, we do have a winner, and we'll be giving out more books in a little while.

So hang in there. Uh So I start getting reports on Facebook, Twitter.

Some people very upset. But the Pope is going to be addressing this gathering. And it's the whole thing, all roads lead to Rome, and it's an ecumenical gathering. And that's all they're seeing. They're not seeing hundreds of thousands coming together.

They're not seeing people coming together around the word. They're not seeing people coming together around Jesus. What they should have said is, why would the Pope even want to make a statement? He approached the organizers. He approached the organizers.

They didn't. Reach out to the Pope and say, Sir, we'd like your endorsement on this event. They weren't thinking that. And basically, all the speakers are Protestant evangelical speakers.

Now picture this. Picture Franklin Graham. Being asked to address a Catholic gathering, all right. It's all Catholics, basically, all day, with all Catholic leaders speaking. You would wonder, okay, has he compromised his own views?

Has he become Catholic? That's what you would think because he's participating in their event.

So I didn't get to see the Pope's statement. But I imagine it would have been a simple Jesus-related statement. I don't think he would have been saying a Hail Mary or something like that. From my perspective, I would have expected him to say it's important for young people to follow Jesus or to live godly lives, whatever. And you might have said, well, is he selling out to Protestant evangelicals by participating in the event?

But the last thing would have been: this is this. Catholicism exalting, Pope exalting, all roads lead to Rome, event. And yet that's what some people were saying. I got you. You can't rejoice with hundreds of thousands gathering together.

You can't rejoice with speaker after speaker saying, We got to get back into the word. We've got to turn to Jesus. We've got to live godly lives. We've got to be people of prayer. We've got to share our faith.

You say, well, how do I feel about the Pope giving the benediction speaking? I have to see the actual video, and then I would tell you. But that would be the last thing I would major on. That would be the last thing that would be an issue to me. And then Someone discovers that there's an app with this, I guess, how to find a church or something like that.

At associated with the event, and when they looked, there was this thing how to find a gay affirming church. I could almost guarantee you, based on the speakers who were involved, based on the nature of the event, I could almost guarantee you. That got in there completely by error. They were trying to put something together about how to find churches and things like that, and that got in incorrectly. Because once it was pointed out, the thing was removed from what I understand.

And yet people are they're blasting me. Check this out. They're blasting me. For being all roads lead to Rome, ecumenical compromise or weak on gay issues. Yeah, yeah, this actually happened.

Because someone reported That this event, one of the apps, referred people to gay affirming churches. Obviously, by complete error, because that's not the theology of the people involved. That's not their belief system. That's not their values. Look at the people who were speaking And yet, others are going to stand there and condemn.

The whole event Rather than saying Isn't it wonderful? That people were praying and crying out to the Lord together. Isn't it wonderful that so many young people came from around the nation? And prayed and sought the Lord. Isn't it great that they were encouraging people to dig into the word, get into the word afresh, dig into the word, get in the word, share your faith, do a reset.

stuff that is very important. Very important. There was another event where over 70,000 gathered in California, mainly young people, and they prayed, fasted 12 hours together. There were some great gospel messages. There was much repentance and seeking the face of God.

And at one point, the Catholic leader bowed low to the leader of the event, and then the leader of the event bowed down before the Catholic leader. Would I rather that didn't happen? Of course. Of course. The bowing down in front of each other, and what this could imply with the bowing down in front of a Catholic leader and back and forth.

Of course, I wish it didn't happen. I understand there was this mutual expression of humility. And this Catholic leader could very well have been a born-again man. They're born-again Catholics, and they're born-again Protestants, by the way. and their lost Protestants and their lost Catholics.

Do I affirm Catholic doctrine? No. Otherwise it'd be Catholic. Never been ambiguity on my end. Do I believe they're born-again Catholics?

Yes. In any case, I wasn't Please with that. happening either. But that's all some critics talked about.

So hang on. You got 70,000 people gathered together for 12 hours for prayer, fasting, repentance, with clear gospel messages going forth. And that's what you're going to major on? You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of the the religious leaders.

In John the fifth chapter, when they saw a man healed on the Sabbath carrying his mat, instead of saying, Who healed you? Oh, by the way. By the way, um hang on, um Uh You shouldn't be carrying that mat. You don't carry it on the Sabbath. But wow, that's amazing.

That's incredible the seeds were healed. No, no, that's not what they said. They said, who told you to pick up your mat? That's all they saw. They knew the man.

They knew the man had been healed. They knew he'd been a cripple and he had been healed. They knew that. They New. That But But That's what they saw Breaking our tradition rather.

Then Who healed you? What? A miracle. 866. Three four truth.

is the number to call. We come back, I'm going to give away another book. And I'm going to talk to you about push back in the culture. push back in the culture. The culture wars are far from over.

And let me just tell you this: I've got a minute before the break. The culture wars are far from over, one reason being they keep coming our way. One reason being they keep going further and further and further. One reason being that they are Uh They are coming our way in an unavoidable way in the schools. in the courts in the places of business, in the stores, in the churches.

Through the media.

So this is not going away. as one of my activist friends said I'll stop when they stop. In other words, as long as these things are knocking at the door, We're going to respond, but it's not in the sense of retreat. or fear or hopelessness. In the sense of God's kingdom always triumphs, one way or another.

In this generation or the next, in this age or the age to come, God's kingdom always triumphs.

So, our attitude is one of faith. And Expectation. Check out my latest letter. It is an open letter to Hillary Clinton about black babies. I'm wondering how she could be so compassionate towards black babies out of the womb.

And so hard-hearted towards black babies inside the womb. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So I said that last year, last year. was the year of pushback. I didn't mean that was the end of it.

I meant it was the beginning of it, where more and more Christians in America, more and more conservative organizations would be standing up against radical gay lesbian transgender activism, caring for people. The church always does, but standing against the activism. And I said that the bullying would backfire. and that gay activists would go too far, that the overreach would go too far and provoke a response. And that is happening right now.

Uh 24 states Now Protesting the Obama administration's transgender activism when it comes to the schools. And in Massachusetts, where some radical things have taken place, the Massachusetts Family Institute is taking a stand. And I'm joined with Andrew Beckwith. I'm going to bring him on in one moment, but I've got another copy of Nick Hall's reset book to give away. Caller number seven, 866-348-7884.

Beautiful little hardcover book, a great read. Reset 866-348-7884. Yours free.

So. Caller number, what'd I say, seven? All right. The book is yours.

Okay, let's go to the phone with Andrew. Beck with, thanks so much for joining us, sir. We've often spoken with mass resistance in Massachusetts and known that Massachusetts has been at the Front of the pack in terms of radical LGBT activism. But, sir, if you could let us know what's happening now and about how you and your organization are pushing back, that would be terrific. Sure, great.

And thanks, Dr. Brown, for having me on. It's a real honor. I appreciate all the work you're doing on these. critical issues and putting some truth and light out there.

Just twelve days ago, the governor of Massachusetts signed into law we what we've deemed to be the bathroom bill. It's essentially a transgender Public accommodations. Oh.

bill, which says that For example, men who identify as women can use the same bathrooms, locker rooms, towers and public change facilities. As women. And so obviously, that is a threat to the privacy, safety of real women. and children. And we fought long and hard uh against that legislation.

But it was finally passed with sort of an overwhelming and unrelenting pressure from the Transgender activist. community. But the good news is in Massachusetts, we have the ability to repeal bad laws by putting it on on the ballot and letting the people vote.

So Today, just an hour or so ago in front of the Statehouse to Boston, we launched the Keep Massachusetts Safe campaign. keep MASAFE. org, and that is to collect about thirty two thousand signatures And to that'll allow us to get this bill On the ballot for November twenty eighteen. It's too late in the game, and this was done intentionally by the proponents of the bill, too late in the game to get it on the twenty sixteen ballot for this November. But Our plans to get it on the 2018 ballot and hopefully, in the next two years, do enough education and mobilizing of activists and voters that we can repeal.

this trash under bathroom bill. and take it off the books here in Massachusetts. All right. And one of our great stations, Andrew, is WEZE that we're on right now, Blanketing Boston. And of course, we've got listeners all over Massachusetts.

In a moment, I want you to tell our listeners what they can do to get involved. But first, let me play the devil's advocate here. What's so big about this? Why make such a big fuss about it? After all, you're just talking about sensitive people.

They're suffering enough rejection and pain already. They just want to go to the bathroom in peace. You're making them into sexual predators and monsters. What's the big deal? How do you respond to that?

Well, the predators that we're concerned about aren't necessarily folks with gender identity issues. That's one of the problems with this bill, is the definition of gender identity is so broad uh that anybody who claims To be of a different gender is covered by the law. In fact, there were attempts to amend it to specifically exclude registered sex offenders. And the advocates of this bill dismiss those amendments.

So You can be a reticent sex defender, a male. Go into a women's locker room. just sit there taking a long time to put your socks on. observing everything, women in states of undress, and then just claim that you're actually a woman. And not only would you not be in trouble legally, But if I is a as a concerned husband and father tried to eject you from that women's locker room, I could go to jail for up to a year.

Yeah. Extraordinary. Uh in a target A dressing room. Of course, Target has said nationwide that a man can just walk in, dressed as a man, in fact, identify as a woman, and stroll into the lady's dressing room.

So not just bathroom, but dressing room.

So here you have a man who identifies as a woman. and he goes in there and he is filming He was caught doing it by his own admission. He was filming the women changing and saying, for him, that's like pornography because he's still attracted to women. He doesn't right, so I guess he identifies as a lesbian now. Exactly.

But you don't you don't have to dress. A certain way. You don't have to have any psychological evaluation or doctor's note or anything like that or any surgery hormones. You can just. quote identify.

based on a sort of sincerely held conviction. But obviously, that makes it right for abuse. And we had a situation in Target right down here in Revere. in Massachusetts. And I spoke to the uncle of the teenage girl in that situation And they're very upset.

But this is happening, I think, at targets all over the country because they've sort of uh made themselves A target known as that's one of the real Lies that keeps getting peddled about these bills by the proponents is that there have been no problems. They keep repeating that talking, but no problems anywhere in the country where these bills have taken root and that's simply not the case. Again, if you go to our website, Keep MA is a Massachusetts keepmasafe.org. We have a listing, I think, over 30 instances. from across the country that have happened.

Yeah. And that's where people can go to sign up. again in the e-mail list. And once the petitions are printed there, being worked on by the Secretary of State's office right now. in the next probably week and a half once those petitions are ready.

We can start printing them out and having people sign them going to local grocery stores. libraries or wherever people gather and start collecting those signatures. Yet on the ballot. We have a vote. seventy five days roughly to get that done.

Keepmasafe.org. Everyone listening in Massachusetts, tell a friend and then go there as soon as you have a moment. Keep Masafe. masafe.org and get educated. Understand what the issues are.

And you know, Andrew, we often feel like, what can I do? But here, literally, every signature matters. And what you're simply saying is, let. The people vote. Let's put the facts on the table.

And you know, we always hear about someone had sex change early on and hormones, and nobody would know that this person, this person born male, is not actually female. No one would ever know that. And you'd never wonder if you saw them walk into a bathroom. Then we never would have wondered. We never would have known.

There never would have been an issue.

So if the thing wasn't broken in that sense, what are you trying to fix? The fact is, there are plenty of people that everyone can tell. Here's a man identifying as a woman, and now we just have to sit back. Listen, I was working out yesterday in a weight room near where I live, and some young lady came walking and walked past me, went in the bathroom. and then was gonna come out and I guess hit the treadmill or something.

And I thought. Uh there's no world. In where that we lived, in that I could go walking in there into her bathroom where she was without her feeling uncomfortable, no matter who I tell her to identify with.

So, friends, go to keep. MASAFE.org. Keep Masafe.org. Get informed. Let's get this on the ballot.

Let's vote and make a difference. Andrew, thank you, sir, for what you're doing. Keep us posted. And Rita in Brooklyn, congratulations. You're our next winner.

Once again, keep MA Safe. Yeah. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back friends to the line of fire 866-3487 884 is the number to call. And let's see.

Let me...

Now let me go right to the phones. Straight to the phones in Maryland. Bob, welcome to the line of fire. Yes, sir. How are you today?

Doing well, thanks. It do you recall, uh There was used to be a A radio program on called Steel on Steel. And the host Mm-hmm. Kathleen cannot remember the last name at the time, but anyhow, she used to have Malachi Father Malachi Martin on. I'm more familiar with his name.

I don't remember that show.

Okay.

Well our tea. Um He was pretty. predicting I think more is on What he knew as opposed to You know, uh you know like a supernatural thing that The last true pope. was going to be John Paul II. And then after that.

Yeah. The Pope would be of communist persuasion.

Now, then the next Pope. Yeah. John Paul was, I can't remember his name. But then he said, suddenly, after about a year, he said, God told him to step down. And then the new pope.

came from May. A communist country in South America. Yeah. and liberal theology and global warming and stuff.

So you think what it What do you think about that?

Well, it's always a curiosity, but certainly the next Pope was was anything but communist, Pope Benedict. He was a hardline German conservative and would have been strongly anti-communist in many ways. As for the current Pope, he does have some socialist leanings for sure. Um But What can I say? I don't see clear evidence.

of that Um definitely some socialist leanings. But would he be outright communist? I don't think so. I'm certainly no expert, though, on all of his beliefs. Oh, me.

And let me ask this: though: was Malachi Martin saying that this would be some apocalyptic type event, that this would be something of tremendous significance for the Catholic Church? I think he was saying that it was something that really had been planned for a long time, basically. It was just. Yeah. Um Yeah, so I wish I could have got the cassette somewhere.

Got it. Yeah, well, listen, I'm not. There's maybe an intended event eventually. Yeah, I mean, listen, I've heard. All types of things.

I had heard from a friend who's worked in Italy for decades that the next pope was going to be black from Africa. That didn't happen. You know, during the days of the Reformation, the Pope was the primary candidate for being the Antichrist.

So you've got some some professing Christians looking to the the Pope as the number one spiritual leader in the world, and you have other professing Christians calling the Pope the Antichrist. I do remember years ago, and I'd forgotten about it, about a lot of priests going to like South America and Central America and Mexico. Preaching liberal theology, which I didn't really know that much about. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely within the Catholic Church, you have the strongly conservative wing, and Benedict would have represented that.

You've got the radical, radical conservatives that almost write off all of the Vatican. You've got your large. groups of Catholics who are fairly nominal, and then you've got your liberals and your radical liberals. And I would think that that the current Pope, Pope Francis, would be in the the liberal side, but not the radical liberal side. Which ends up putting normally political and social causes way ahead of other spiritually related causes.

But I As far as I can tell, we'll have some other popes after this current pope and we shall see what his influence is for better or For worse. All right, Bob, I appreciate the call. And I'm sure you've got some other listeners who are now going to try to dig up what they can find out about the Father Malachi Martin prophecies about the communist Pope. Has it been long planned? What do I know?

I've got no inroads to the enclaves of the cardinals. But I'm not big on the conspiratorial theories. I could be totally wrong on that, though. Who knows? We'll be right back.

Shake the nation, change the world. Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire 866. 348-7884. A little while. I'm going to give away one more book of Nick Hall's Reset Jesus Changes.

Everything with forwards by uh a forward by josh mcdow luis palau and Ravi Zacharias. That's quite a trio. to write a forward for your Book. All right. In my book, Outlasting the Gay Revolution.

One of the points that I made was that if we lived by certain biblical principles, that we would outlast the gay revolution. That For example, by celebrating gender distinctions, we would outlast the attack on gender. By honoring marriage as God intended it, we would outlast the redefinition of marriage. Either Jesus would come first or we would outlast these things. And I did say that there would be pushback.

that there would be pushback. that there would be an overplaying of the hand. On the side of our ideological opponents.

Now, let me make it plain. As followers of Jesus, we love God and we love our neighbor as ourselves. As followers of Jesus, we show compassion towards all. As followers of Jesus, we open the doors of our church buildings and our house meetings and say, everyone's welcome. To hear the gospel, everyone's welcome to find wholeness and new life in Jesus.

and we work with patience and compassion towards those who struggle. and those who are having ups and downs. And if two men came into our church service next Sunday holding hands during the worship. Uh we would not kick them out. We would not have an usher go up to them and slap their hands and separate them or something foolish like that.

Uh Our people would know to, to, when I say our people, my home congregation, they would know to invite those folks out for lunch. and get to know them. and try to lead them to Jesus. And if they claim to be followers of Jesus, then we talk seriously, we do some serious theological talking. And we would address the issues.

And if they said, well, look, we're searching, okay, well, then keep coming, keep searching, keep listening. If they said, no, no, we're absolutely convinced that we can follow Jesus and practice homosexuality at the same time, et cetera, then obviously we would have issues with them fellowshipping with us. We couldn't receive them as members or anything like that. That's one thing. When it comes to laws being passed in our society, When it comes to marriage being redefined, When it comes to the Department of Justice pushing transgender activism on our children's schools, And saying that billions of dollars of federal funding will be withheld.

unless you allow a fifteen year old boy who identifies as a girl to play on the girls' softball team and to share the girls' locker room and bathroom, that's where we push back That's where we say gay activists have overplayed their hand. I'm being joined now by Matt Sharp. He serves as legal counsel with Alliance Defending Freedom, where he plays a key role on the Freedom of Conscience team. He is a graduate from Vanderbilt University School of Law, member of the Bar in Georgia and Tennessee, and has admitted to practice in several federal courts of appeal and district courts. Before Matt comes on, let's do this.

Caller number eight. Caller number eight. You get a free copy of the hardcover book by Nick Hall. Reset Jesus changes everything, super practical and inspirational. 866-348-7884 Caller number eight.

The book is yours.

Let's go to Matt Sharp. Matt, thanks so much for joining us. Please tell us about the lawsuit now. By 24 different states coming against the federal government on transgender activism. Yeah.

So this is showing just how radical what the administration is doing. And so there's been two separate lawsuits filed. One of them was led by Texas and another one led by Nebraska, but a total of twenty four states that are suing the Department of Education and the Department of Justice Basically, saying you don't have the authority to do this, to issue this mandate requiring us to allow boys to go into girls' locker room showers. bathrooms, overnight accommodations. You don't have the authority to do this.

It violates the plain language of Title IX, it violates our authority as a state, and it violates student privacy rights. And so we've got a large chunk, almost fifty percent of our state standing up to the federal government and saying, enough is enough. You're not going to do something like this that hurts our students and takes away state authority.

Now, Matt, when's the last time something like this happened with so many states saying no to the federal government?

Well, I think the most recent example was the Obamacare cases several years ago when a lot of states joined together and were challenging another mandate there. And I think what we saw there Parallels what we're seeing here. There was a portion of that case that dealt with a Medicaid expansion, and I won't go into all of the details, but the federal government was basically telling states: you've got to agree to this new expansion of Medicaid and our new interpretation of it, or we're going to take away all of your federal Medicaid funding. And the states said no, and the Supreme Court agreed with the state. And that's exactly what's happening here.

The federal government is threatening billions of dollars in education funding to states. And this is money that pays for things like special needs programs. Free and reduced lunches, and the federal government is telling states: unless you agree to our radical redefinition of Title IX that allows boys into girls' private facilities, we're going to devastate your school districts, your state education program by. taking away all of this much needed education funding. And I'm hopeful that the Supreme Court will do the exact same thing here that it did there and say, federal government, you can't do that.

You can't hold a loaded gun to the head of states and threaten their much needed funding if they don't go along with your radical new interpretation of the law. All right, so we've got at least three levels of issues. We've got the federal government's overreach into the states. Then we've got the whole purpose of Title IX and how that's being turned upside down. And then we've got, as you mentioned, the radical reinterpretation of it.

So the word sex now means something else. Let's talk first then about Title IX. What was the original purpose of Title IX and how is that now being turned upside down with this new mandate by the federal government?

So Title IX was passed 1972, a little over forty years ago, and it was designed to address a problem happening at a lot of colleges and universities in our country. They were discriminating against women. They were putting quotas on the number of girls that could be enrolled at the school or they were limiting the majors they could apply for.

So you'd have a girl that wanted to be a doctor, and the school would come along and say, no, you can't be a doctor. Girls have to be nurses.

So Congress stepped in and said, we want to stop this type of discrimination. We want to make sure that men and women have equal access to all of the educational opportunities at our schools.

So it was specifically designed to remedy the problem of women being denied equal opportunities to men. And repeatedly throughout the law, they referenced you can't dis you have to treat one sex the same as the other sex. And so there was just always this understanding of male and female, different, but ensuring that they get equal opportunities. Never ever was it intended to extend to gender identity or any of the other things the administration is saying. In fact, girls and female sports expanded massively.

and the college level and things like that after Title IX, because now you had this outlet for women to be women, competing against women and funded to have female sports.

So there was great expansion of sports programs.

So now, pathetically and ironically, you could have biological males getting scholarships that should have gone to females simply because they identify as female, which completely undercuts Title IX. Absolutely, it does. I mean, you can imagine girls that have spent years and years and years honing their skills in a particular sport. And then at the last minute, some boy shows up, claims he's a girl, Steals that girl's spot on the team, steals her ability for a scholarship to attend the school she'd been wanting to. In fact, we're already seeing this happen.

Up in Alaska, there was a boy that tried out for a girls' track team, ended up placing third in the state track meet. And so I'm thinking, what about that poor girl that finished fourth? She spent years of her life preparing for that, and then along comes some boy, and rather than her getting an equal opportunity to compete with other biological girls, She was denied that, was forced to compete against a male. and ultimately denied a third place finish, a metal finish. And who knows what implications that can have for her down the road.

Yeah, and the mother was not happy at all. And it may have been that it was a fourth to fifth, but whatever. She would have had her place on the medal stand because I think they had four people standing there, and she got bumped off. And it's against a biological male. And we know just by nature, that's why we have in Olympics, men competing against men and women against women, because men on average are going to be stronger and faster.

And now the Olympics are struggling with this because they want to have this radical egalitarianism and everything's open. And so you identify as a woman, you could play.

So in that scope, I mean, Bruce Jenner theoretically could have been competing against all the women back in his day, which would make him the greatest female athlete of all time. All right. I just have a couple of other questions from Matt on the other side of the break.

So we'll be right back with Matt Sharp from the Alliance Defending Freedom. And I want you to understand the nature of the radical reinterpretation of the word. Sex by the Obama administration, something that was never intended by the crafters of Title IX and these other relevant statutes, now getting threatened. And yeah, a gun's being held to the head of states like North Carolina, where I currently live. You comply or you lose billions of dollars in federal funds.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I'm speaking with Matt Sharp, legal counsel with the Alliance Defending Freedom, about a lawsuit being brought by 24 states saying no to the Obama administration, saying no to the Department of Justice. Saying we will not go along with your transgender activism in our schools. We will not allow this to be forced on us.

So, Matt, the radical reinterpretation has to do with the word sex.

So, explain what the Department of Justice has now done and if they have any authority or legal precedent for what they're doing. Sure.

So in this May 13th, dear colleague, letter that the Department of Education sent out to every school and every college in the country, They said you now have to treat a student's gender identity as their sex.

So if a boy walks into school one day and says, I may be biologically a boy, but I now identify as a female. From that second forward, the school must treat him as a girl in every aspect. Name, pronoun, dress, and of course where they use the restroom, shower, change, all of that. No parental involvement is required. In fact, the school could actually get in trouble for reaching out to the parents if the student didn't want them to.

Nor is there any medical diagnosis or requirement that the student be taking hormones or have done this for a while. It's just that the moment a student walks in and says, I am a boy or I'm a girl, for all regards, that school has to treat that student as that sex. And so what they have done is redefine sex. It no longer means what your biology, what your anatomy, what your DNA and chromosomes say. Rather, it is what you subjectively think you are is now what it means to be boy or girl.

All right. Is there any precedent for this in the courts? Has any definition been changed at any point on any national level? Not at all. In fact, just the opposite.

So there have been six court cases across the country that have all looked at this question of what does sex mean under Title IX? And specifically, does it mean that a boy gets to access female restrooms and locker rooms? And in all of those cases, except the most recent one out of Virginia that's still on appeal, those courts have consistently rejected it and said nothing in Title nine requires this. In fact, Title nine is clear they meant when they drafted it that sex means boy and girl based on your biology anatomy. Because when Title nine was being debated, this exact question actually came up during the debate.

someone said, well, if we're creating equal opportunities for men and women and they get equal access to all of the programs, does that now mean guys can get access to girls' dormitories and locker rooms and play on girls' sports teams? And the sponsor said, of course not. Whenever there is a privacy or safety concern, we want to make sure that schools can still have separate facilities, programs, sports teams for boys and girls. And so they wrote that into the language of Title IX. And for forty years, everybody has known that sex means boy or girl based on biology, anatomy, et cetera.

And it is only in the past year that the administration has started to take this radical new interpretation that sex is no longer how you were born, but rather what you subjectively think you are on any given day. And there are colleges now that are not allowed to. tell incoming students that the guy that's going to be sharing a room with another guy is actually still female. but identifies as a guy they're not even allowed to inform them. That that's that's how for Things are going.

So, this is part of a larger activist war, almost a war on gender distinction themselves. I mean, it can affect colleges that are female schools, and now we'll have biological males there.

So, this is part of a massive Can of worms. And Matt, do you expect more grassroots pushback as this continues to expand? It has nothing to do with having compassion for a kid who's struggling. It has to do with implementing social madness. Do you expect more pushback across the country?

I do. As we're seeing the consequences of this, of what it means, as we hear situations like I think there was a guy in Idaho that pretended to be a female in order to take pictures in the changing room at Target. We're going to see the consequences of policies like this. We're going to see the impact it has on girls losing opportunities, on kids having their privacy violated and so much more. And I think we're going to see more and more grassroots effort What's so encouraging is to see the positive response.

We've been working with school districts and others across the country on this issue. And consistently, they've tried to show great compassion to a student struggling with gender identity issues. And they'll say, all right, you're not you're a boy, but you're not comfortable using the boys' restroom. We'll give you an accommodation. We'll let you use a single star restroom or a nurse's restroom.

We want to have a safe place, a place where your privacy and dignity is protected, but we got to give the same to everybody else. And that's compassion. But the other side refuses that because what they don't want is they don't want safety. They don't want compassion. They want to dominate and they want to make everybody fall into line with their radical ideology.

And Matt, if folks want to get behind ADF or find out more about this particular case, what's the best way to do that?

So they can visit us at ADFlegal. org, or we've set up a new website called safebathrooms. org that they can visit to learn more about all of the cases that ADF is involved in, to hear stories of victims of sexual abuse and how these policies impact them and find out resources that they can take and give to their own school district or local college to adopt good policies that protect everybody's privacy and safety. All right, friends, especially that second website, safebathrooms.org. Matt, keep up the good work.

We expect great progress in the days ahead. Appreciate it very much. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. All right.

That was Matt Sharp from the Alliance Defending Freedom, safebathrooms.org. Let me repeat. The issue here is not one of having compassion on a kid who's struggling, but to give you the analogy that I've given over and over and over again, let's say you've got a kid in school who's blind. All right, you've got a blind kid in school. You don't have a special school for the blind in your community.

So you do whatever you can to accommodate that child. recognizing that child has a handicap, they have a legitimate need, and you want to accommodate them as best as possible, but you don't impose that on the whole school. In other words, you do not say everyone has to close their eyes and now learn to read with Braille. ready to try to accommodate that one student with a handicap. If you have a boy who who believes he's a girl.

There's no scientific evidence that he is a girl, but he believes he is and he's troubled by having to use the boy's room. All right, we have compassion on that child struggling, whatever the cause of the struggle might be. But We don't impose that on everyone else. If you can find, as they said, a nurse's bathroom or a single-stall bathroom or a faculty bathroom, the child can use that, but you don't traumatize all the other kids. You don't traumatize all the other kids because the one kid struggles.

You don't traumatize the 15-year-old girls by having a biological male share the locker room and bathroom with them in the school and play on their teams unfair to the other girls because the kid is confused about his gender identity. If you said, no, no, no, he's absolutely a woman in a boy's body, okay, still in a boy's body, and you don't put a boy's body in the girls' rooms.

So, sanity will prevail. It may take a while. Things may get more insane before sanity prevails. But trust me, either Jesus comes first or or sanity prevails, because culture cannot maintain itself. like this.

Please check out the website. We've got a great resource offer for you. My 12-hour teaching series, eight lectures on how to be led by the Spirit. Full of the word, full of wisdom, full of great stories, full of practical application, 60% off for the download, which is already low price.

So take advantage of that at askdarchybrown.org. My bottom line today: don't be discouraged. Jesus is Lord. It's time to push back.

Well, another great story. You can't deny the reality. God does save people out of homosexuality. Uh It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. That's 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome, friends, to the Line of Fire broadcast. 866-34-TRUTH is our number. And I want to encourage you friends. that we have a special secret weapon. that no one can Deny.

They can Fight against it. but they can't overcome it. They can't silence it. It is the weapon of testimony. It is the weapon of changed lives.

It is the weapon of what God has done in people's lives. I I was at a meeting one time. And we were, it was a city council meeting. in Charlotte, North Carolina. And there was a social issue.

controversial social issue that was taking place in our city at that time. And The speaker said, This is my position. Each speaker had, I think, three minutes. There were 10 speakers. Each had three minutes to make their point to the city council.

And it so happened all 10 speakers were on the same side of this particular social issue. And our congregation had showed up in good numbers to pretty much fill. the city council meeting hall.

So this gentleman stood up and said, This is my position, but if you agree with it, I'd like you to stand. And with the exception of a couple of people, everybody stood up. And you could see the city council like, whoa. Whoa. If you deny a certain thing, If you say there is no such thing as rain.

There's no such thing as let's say snow.

Some parts of the world have never seen snow. Everybody's seen rain.

Some parts of the world have never seen snow. There's no such thing as snow. And I've heard rumors about there's no such thing as snow. And I say, okay, we're in the Northeast. All of you who have seen snow yourselves stand up.

It's a stadium with 100,000 people packed in, and 100,000 people stand up. It's a little hard to argue against that. We have something wonderful, which is the power of personal testimony.

Now, Our authority is Scripture. We don't base doctrine on personal testimony, but personal testimony can confirm doctrine.

So if God promises a particular thing. And we believe that promise based on Scripture. And then See that confirmed in our personal lives, that is pretty neat. That is when you say, wow, praise God, God said it, and now I've experienced it, and now I know this for myself. How wonderful.

So I'm going to be speaking with a special guest today. Uh her name is Michelle Smith, and I'm holding her book in my hands. called Prodigal Pursued. out of the lifestyle Into the arms of Jesus an extra Lesbians journal She was a former assistant district attorney. She spent nearly 25 years.

as an out loud and proud lesbian, I'm reading from the back of her book. She was a feminist, separatist, anarchist. She wanted to New Age beliefs, witchcraft, Buddhism, agnosticism, and all the other isms available to explore. At last she encountered the undeniable, indescribable love of Jesus and everything changed. Today, Michelle not only reaches out to touch the LGBT community with the love of God, but also speaks to the church.

Sharing a message of hope to those who feel they have lost a loved one to the LGBT lifestyle.

So we come back. I'm going to talk to Michelle Smith, flipping through the pages of this book right now. And by the way, A great book to give to someone struggling. or to someone wondering. about these issues and boy I'm looking at some old pictures of Michelle here.

And you better believe Yeah, you better believe everything we just read is what she lived. Wow. We'll be right back. Shake the nation. Change the world.

Change the world. Give us strict to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Jesus really changes lives. This is Michael Brown. If you know my story. At the age of 16 when I came to faith in 1971, I was a heroin shooting LSD using hippie rock drummer.

I was speaking at a fine church in Jamestown, North Carolina. right near Greensboro. A couple weeks ago. Fine church there. Many of you that were there are listening right now on some of our great stations, AM and FM.

in Greensboro. And over the final meal with the pastor, found out that Okay. He had been a drug addict. He had shot heroin. Are you serious?

Him? This godly, fine pastor? Jesus really changes lives. But the one area where we're told, no, no, no, he really doesn't change lives, is when it comes to homosexuality. I discovered this years ago when I was sharing the testimony of a close friend.

And it was in the early days of the intranet, and I was interacting with some folks about this, and they said, no, no, no, he was never gay. If he's not gay now, he was never gay. Or he's just a bisexual, or he's just repressing his real identity. But people don't really change. If they do come out of homosexuality, they're miserable.

If they claim to be heterosexual, they're lying. But either way, they don't really change.

Well, my guest, Michelle Smith, her book, Prodigal Pursuit Out of the Lifestyle, Into the Arms of Jesus, an ex-lesbian journey. Her website, prodigalpursued.com. I read the bio off the back of the book. Right before the break. And I've been flipping through the pictures, shaking my head.

It is a delight now to meet on the air Michelle Smith. Michelle, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I'm happy to be here with you.

Michelle, when did your book come out? Prodigal pursued. Uh Mother's Day this year. Mother's Day. What kind of responses have you received so far?

You know, I've received really positive responses across the board. I've gotten people have gotten in contact with me through my website and have sent me emails telling me that. My book was an encouragement that it spoke to them, it spoke about their own journeys. Back to God and out of the lifestyle. And then I've also heard from a lot of parents and siblings of people who are still in.

the LGBT lifestyle, and that it's been very encouraging to them and uplifting for them to know how powerful prayer is and that God really is transforming lives today.

Now, I want to get your whole story as much as we can cram it in here in the time that we have, and then talk practically about ministering to those who identify as gay or lesbian. But let's start here. When was it that you surrendered your life to Jesus and said no more to the life you were living? It was six years ago. And um after twenty about twenty three years of living as a very Um activist active lesbian uh life.

I was never whole I was never um I don't do anything halfway, so I was as full on in that as I could be. And six years ago, I actually sat down with a Catholic priest Who responded in perfect ways and told me that being a lesbian would not prevent me from coming back to God. and wouldn't prevent me from having a relationship, but it was something that we had to talk about, and it was something I was going to have to address. And for me, that was the final thing that I needed to hear that enabled me. Yeah.

All right, so let's talk about your upbringing. People always want to know: well, what happened and when did you start to identify as lesbian?

So, how were you raised religiously and what kind of family? Yes, I was adopted at birth, and I was raised in a Christian family. We went to church every Sunday morning, Sunday evening if there was a service, Wednesday evening. I was in love with Jesus. I was going to be a missionary.

I I just loved I love Billy Graham Crusades. I read voraciously. any Christian book that was available to me, I read them. And I loved God. But when I was seven, um, An older male neighbor exposed me to pornography.

And between that and then the fact that I was a reader who also read. Um Kind of what we would call mommy porn books now, and I was reading them when I was. Um, in my early like my twelve to fourteen. And I was getting exposed to bisexuality through those books, and then I had this pornography. the visuals of the pornography as well.

by the time I was fourteen, I was thinking of myself as bisexual, but I knew that, that was wrong, and I knew that I shouldn't be thinking of myself that way. And so struggled from fourteen to eighteen kind of with those thoughts and those ideas. That was during the 80s. During the 80s, the church really didn't have a good. um theology for dealing with people who had same sex attraction And so I basically believed and thought that I was going to hell because I had same sex attraction.

So in light of that, by the time I was eighteen, I decided that if I was going to go to hell because I was having thoughts That I felt like I couldn't control, then I was going to go all out and I was going to go to hell for good reasons. And that's when. Yeah, let me just jump in then. This will be very obvious to you, but others it may not be so obvious. Why didn't you look for help?

Why didn't you sit down with pastor leaders and say, hey, I'm struggling? with with these uh these problems, why was this something that you're pretty much battling on your own?

Well, I think that it's a combination of things. One, teenagers in general tend to not think that adults can really understand them, and I think that, that fed into it. And I also had heard sermons. The eighties was the time when AIDS was really breaking out in the media. It was something that people talked about.

I'd heard sermons about AIDS being the wages of sin. I was pretty clear on what my leaders would probably say to me. And I wasn't willing to Risk Exposing myself because I held out hope that in my own willpower and in my own control, I would be able to conquer this, and then nobody would need to know that I had been battling it. Right. And I asked the question because many people don't understand how difficult it is.

Look, even today, Let's say you're you're a pastor. And you're struggling with pornography or something like that.

Well, who do you tell? I mean, if you tell your other church leaders, maybe you're going to get sat down. You tell your denominational leaders, or you're afraid to tell your wife that would hurt her too deeply.

So I'm just going to kind of suck it up and get tough and get through. And then when you have something like this, as a young person, especially in the 80s, I mean, there's something wrong with you. There's something wrong with you. You can't dare tell someone because you're going to be totally ostracized.

So it's the exact opposite of what should happen where we recognize, hey, everybody's going to struggle. Everybody has fleshly issues.

Some go very, very deep, you know, to the core of our being. That's why we have a Savior. And that's why we have compassionate leaders and friends. And I tell young people, I was just asked this question the other day. What happens if my friend, you know, a teenager said, what happens if my friend comes out and tells me they're gay?

I said, say to them, and. In other words, you're my friend. You know, first defuse the whole thing. Right. So you're still my friend, and then try to let them open up to you, and then just try to bring them to find a place of wholeness in the Lord.

But yeah, it's so difficult, and people don't realize it. That's why I wanted to jump in.

So then, at the age of 18, you made your decision. I did. Um I um It was a A long battle, like I said, and right after I graduated from high school, I left home. and pretty much abandoned myself to all the things that I had not been doing because I was a good Christian kid.

So drinking, experimenting with drugs, lots of sex. I mean, I wholeheartedly jumped off the cliff. I didn't play on the edge, I just went. And that's when I eventually started getting involved in alternative religions as well. Because I was always seeking that relationship with God that I'd had when I was a kid.

Got it. Now, when when you talk about the way you were living at this point, were you were you living uh i in sin in a bisexual way, or had you just given yourself over to lesbianism uh that early? I had just given myself over to lesbianism at that point. Um I had Dated a couple of guys in high school. Neither one of those relationships went particularly well.

Um and so I just figured women were much easier. I understood them. They were just like me. And so I just gave myself over to that. And did you begin to believe that that's who you really were and you were maybe born that way as opposed to now you describe the process in which you opened up to these things?

What did you believe? Yeah. Yes, absolutely. At that during the twenty three years that I was in the lesbian lifestyle, I wholeheartedly believed That I was born that way, that it was my destiny, it was my complete identity. I mean, it.

Being a lesbian dictated not only who I slept with, it also dictated who my friends were, what movies I went to, what books I read, who I voted for. Mm. All right, friends, we come back. I'm speaking with Michelle Smith. This is a book you want to get: Prodigal Pursued.

Out of the lifestyle, into the arms of Jesus, an ex-lesbians journal, the website Prodigal Pursued. Dot com. Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm speaking with Michelle Smith, author of the book Prodigal Pursuit Out of the Lifestyle Into the Arms of Jesus and ex-Lesbians. Journey. Michelle, some in the LGBT community.

I would say most. Take exception to the idea of the gay lifestyle. In fact, they'll say, What's the gay lifestyle? It's like everybody else's lifestyle. You get up in the morning, you go to work, you have a family, you have friends, you relax.

You know, that's the lifestyle. Yet, you use the term often, and you speak about it on the air, you have it in your book, lesbian lifestyle, as someone who has been there and done that. How can you phrase it like that? Why is it something that you refer to as a lifestyle?

Well, I think that it goes back to what I was saying just before the break, which is being a lesbian was my identity. And as such, it it dictated or at least influenced heavily. many of my decisions. What parties did I go to? Who were my friends?

What movies did I watch or not watch? What books did I read? Who did I vote for? What issues how did I feel about certain people based on how they felt about the LGBT Um people group.

So I do think that it's that it was a lifestyle much in the same way that I live a fitness lifestyle because I make choices about what I'm going to eat or where I'm going to work out and when I'm going to work out based on my lifestyle choices of fitness and my goal of fitness.

So, I think that it's somewhat disingenuous to say it's not a lifestyle. I think we all have lifestyles. And we make choices based on on kind of what our lifestyle is. If we're vegan, we've chosen a lifestyle. All right, so in other words, and the reason I probe this is to give people better understanding.

In in your viewpoint, having been uh all in For these 23 years before the Lord brought you back to Himself. And again, I just want to read this from the back cover. Spent nearly 25 years as an out loud, proud lesbian, feminist, separatist, anarchist. She wandered through New Age beliefs, witchcraft, Buddhism, agnosticism, all the other isms available to explore.

So obviously, you're not saying that all of those things are part of, quote, lesbian lifestyle, yet. Having been raised in a good home, now having been six years. out of the lesbian lifestyle, would you say that the average heterosexual's life and relationship to family and things like that is just the same as the average homosexuals or are there differences? I would strongly say that there's differences. Again, I have a longevity of 20-some years in that community.

Living in different states and being involved to differing degrees in the community in each of those states. I can say that while there is A desire on the part of many in the LGBT community to have exactly the same quote unquote lifestyle as their heterosexual friends and neighbors. there are differences, and there were certainly far more differences in the eighties and nineties, the acceptance rate has has changed that somewhat, but Um But I think that there are differences that I mean, I'm going to be really controversial here and say the domestic violence rates among The LGBT is higher than among heterosexuals if you look per capita. Um like female female female abuse seems to be worse than male female abuse, for example. Um there's alcoholism.

The levels of alcoholism is higher. The the rate of depression is higher. There was a study that came out recently, and I believe that was out of the Netherlands. Where they were trying to figure out what was the common denominator for d for um suicide rates. And they actually found that That homosexuals had a higher rate of depression leading to suicide, regardless of how accepting everyone around them was of their identity.

So I would say that there's a lot of issues and problems among the LGBT people group. That are greater or exacerbated when compared to their heterosexual counterparts. It's not to say there aren't caring people. It's not to say there aren't great neighbors. It's not to say there aren't committed relationships.

It's not to say they're not hard worker. On and on. It's simply to say God didn't make men to be with men and women to be with women. And therefore, it cannot be a life that is blessed the way a life is lived according to God's order. And by the way, the study that I had read from the UK, when they had looked at higher rates of substance abuse, higher rates of depression, higher rates of suicide in the LGBT community, gay activists said we can't blame this on homophobia.

In fact, homophobia, quote, homophobia, didn't occur in the report. They said it's our lifestyle. We tend to be partying more.

Now, of course, they didn't come to the same conclusions we did, but they just said our chosen lifestyle is different and it leads to these various problems. And obviously, you're not going to have the same level of long-term bonding, commitment, family stability. uh in in a homosexual Uh Population as you would in heterosexual, just on average, and that's what you saw over 23 years. It is exactly what I saw, yes. All right, so before we get to how the Lord brought you out.

You are out and proud. Yes. What did that look like? What did that sound like? When I was in my twenties, it looked a lot like I was very much an activist.

I believed in public displays of affection, which during the Kind of the late eighties and early nineties was when um gays and lesbians would get together in you know, you would you would be with a partner at a restaurant or on a public street and you would hold hands, you would kiss, whatever, and it was a shock factor to to shock the straight people who were around you into seeing you for seeing your identity as it was. Um So I marched in parades. I wrote um articles for an anarchist newspaper. Um I Um Yes. I mean, I if I had a choice between shopping at a regular business or a business owned by somebody who was LGBT, I would choose the LGBT business every time.

I mean, I was just I was very active in pursuing Um legal Protection and legal rights and acknowledgment from society at large. And did you alter your appearance to send the message as well?

Well, I suppose you could say that. My head was shaved or nearly shaved throughout most of those twenty-three years. I thought it was funny when I got mistaken for a boy. Um but it it was never my I was never um I was never confused about my gender. I never felt like I was.

a male trapped in a female's body. I never had any of the dysmorphia. I just Um I wanted to co-opt. Anything that was male that indicated power in society and in sexual politics. Fascinating.

All right, friends. We're gonna get to the punchline. We're gonna find out how Jesus Came into Michelle's life and transformed her. And then asked Michelle to speak directly. To those who identify as LGBT.

That are listening, and to families who have family members who are going through the struggles right now together. The book Prodigal Pursued, the website prodigalpursued.com. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Jesus is a wonderful Savior.

Jesus can transform anyone. If you're listening right now, and fighting terrible depression and hopelessness. If you're listening right now and you're addicted to drugs or alcohol or another. substance of some kind. If you're listening right now.

and are struggling with sexual addictions. If you're listening right now, struggling with gender identity issues. Sexual orientation issues. My guest, Michelle Smith, has a message of hope. An encouragement for you.

Her book, Prodigal Pursuit, Out of the Lifestyle, Into the Arms of Jesus, an ex-lesbian's journey, her website, prodigalpursuit.com, after 23 years living as an out and proud lesbian. Six years ago, she surrendered to the Lord. She had been raised in a Christian home, exposed to pornography at the age of seven, and by the time she was 18, she decided this is who I am, and gave herself to lesbian relations and substance abuse, and then out and proud. Lesbian, activist, as much as she could be, now following Jesus these last six years. Michelle, what was it?

How did God get involved in your life to bring you back to himself? What got you to that point of saying, okay, no more with the new age and the separatism and anarchy and feminism and Buddhism and witchcraft and agnosticism and all the other things you followed? What brought you back to the Lord that you knew as a child?

Well, when I um When I moved to Kansas and was an assistant, got hired as an assistant district attorney. I knew that I needed to have a quote unquote normal spirituality. That was how I phrased it. All of the Buddhism and the witchcraft and everything else was just all part of my spiritual seeking. What I didn't know at that time was what I was doing, seeking a relationship with the God I knew as a child.

So, what I decided was, since I had no interest in being a Christian, was I would um become Jewish. Really?

Okay.

And so I had been studying Jewish mysticism, and I thought, well, being Jewish is fairly mainstream, so I can do that.

So I met with a Reformed tradition rabbi who told me that it was fine to be a lesbian. And I studied with um with Rabbi Davis for um for two years. And just for my listeners that don't know, Reform Judaism has nothing to do with the Reformed Christian faith. Reform Judaism is extremely liberal and therefore affirming of not only practicing lesbians and homosexuals, but that you could actually be a rabbi and be a lesbian or gay rabbi in the Reformed tradition.

So, this was the route you're going to take.

So, as a district attorney now, it wouldn't be good that you're into Buddhism or something like that. But Judaism, that's fine. Yes, yes, that's very mainstream. I thought that was very normal.

So, So I studied with Rabbi Davis for two years, and he said to me one day, he said, It's time for you to pick a date to actually come into the Jewish. faith and and make your conversion.

So pick a date. And I went home and within about three days my mom called to tell me that my aunt had died. And um that was my a very dear aunt, only eleven years older than me, and it was an unexpected death. That was very upsetting, and I drove to Oklahoma with my girlfriend at the time for the funeral, and while I was sitting in the funeral, um home listening to the the sermon. I heard a voice say, you can't give up Jesus.

And I turned to my girlfriend and I said, Did you say something? And she shushed me and said, No, be quiet. And I heard the voice again, and I actually heard it three more times: you can't give up Jesus. And I knew that it was by the time it said it the third time, I knew it was God, and I knew that I was not going to convert to being Jewish. And so that started two more years of seeking, and I could not find a church that would accept me as a practicing lesbian And Um I'll tell you what, we'll find out on the other side of the break.

You couldn't find a church that would accept you as a practicing lesbian, and we'll be right back. Angel world O God of burning, cleansing flame. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm speaking with Michelle Smith, her book, Prodigal Pursuit Out of the Lifestyle Into the Arms of Jesus. an ex-lesbian's journey.

So, Michelle, right before the break, we cut you off in mid-sentence. You were a district attorney. You were going to convert to Judaism so you could have more of a mainstream acceptable religion. You heard a voice saying you can't leave Jesus. You can't deny Jesus.

And now you're looking for a church that would affirm you. as gay and Christian. You couldn't find one There are more and more churches like this around. Why do you think you couldn't find one?

Well, what I got cut off was saying was I could find them, but I didn't want to be a part of one of those churches. By walking in those churches, it's like something in my spirit knew That they weren't Telling the truth. And I wasn't willing at that point to admit what it was they weren't telling the truth about. I just knew they weren't living, lively churches, and I didn't want to be a part of them. And so eventually made my way, ended up in a Catholic priest's office, et cetera.

And while I was struggling, I struggled for about a week before I finally gave in to Jesus And I was arguing, or I was talking with a girlfriend at the time, and I said, This is my identity. Being a lesbian is my identity, it's who I am. And I said this. It's as if I was Right-handed my entire life, and now you're telling me I can't be right-handed, that's a sin, and I have to be left-handed. And immediately when I said that out loud, What dropped into my head was a paraphrase of a Bible verse, which was.

Um That it's better to go to heaven with one hand than hell with two. Wow. So. So you didn't know where your little analogy. Was going to get you.

No, I didn't. But when that happened, when that first dropped into my head, I knew. That I was going to be obedient. I was going to acknowledge Jesus as Lord. Over my life.

even though at that moment I didn't agree with him. But I was going to Bend my knee to him as Lord. And then what happened was, because I took one step in obedience towards him, he rushed in with just so much love and transformation And I was just I have been overwhelmed for six years with his um unending and enduring love for me. Tell me honestly, tell our listeners honestly, Michelle. who you were on the inside.

What level of peace, joy, fulfillment, satisfaction? on your average day in your old lifestyle compared to your average day in your new lifestyle. You know, I um I did not think that I was. Unhappy or dissatisfied. I was never depressed.

That's not my personality. When I was a lesbian, I thought that I was Great. I knew that I was always questing and searching and seeking. That was kind of an inner drive for me. And people would even comment about it.

But after I came back to Jesus, I just became Calm. I didn't have I no longer have that drive to seek and search and find. Because I've already found what I was seeking, which was Jesus. Um There's an old from the beginning saying that says we all have a God shaped hole in our heart and will never be satisfied until He is in it. And that's exactly what I look back on my old life, and I say.

I wasn't unhappy. But I was never as happy on my best day then as I am now. And what about this feeling of being loved? You were. In many relationships, before I take it, you're single at the moment, but this depth of feeling loved by God.

Is there a security you have now? Is there something that you have that's different than before? There is. There is. Over the six years, I constantly feel like I'm learning more About Jesus and God, and God's you know, God is one of his names is all sufficient.

And I've had to learn that all sufficient isn't that he's going to provide for our daily bread in a real mundane kind of way, but he's all sufficient in he can meet all of my needs for love and all my needs for kindness and caring. And I've had to learned that. It wasn't something I understood from the very beginning. But I'm not lonely. I mean, I have a very full life.

He's brought wonderful friends into my life. I have a ministry. And I even even when I am by myself now, I am not lonely, but I was when I was a lesbian, I was lonely in rooms full of people. Mm-hmm. Right.

And again, these are things that many people just can't understand until they hear from someone like you, especially when you didn't characterize yourself as depressed, or you wouldn't have characterized yourself as lonely on that same level in the past. But when you've experienced the love of God, a new life, then you realize it's like you've been in a cave with limited light, and you come in the sunshine, you realize, ah, This is what light is. Is really about. Obviously, people want to press the sexual attractions issue, romantic attractions. And I have friends.

That of Literally, had them transform some supernaturally overnight from homosexual to heterosexual. I have others that have had a modification and attractions and desires. Others that say, No, I still have these attractions. I just say no to them. Is that a big issue with you right now, or is that quite secondary?

It's pretty secondary. I feel like God gave me a pretty dramatic transformation from the beginning. Um not 100% that all desires and attractions were removed like in one snap of a fingers. But essentially, once I said I was willing to give up that identity, then the same-sex attraction went away and the questing after that went away. I'm very open to marriage to a husband right now.

God has not brought that man into my life, but I'm open to that. But I still very much in the beginning, learned what taking thoughts captive meant and how to do that. And I have a number of things that I talk about in the book, techniques that I've used successfully to take thoughts captive. in order to not give myself um you know leeway. It's like I It's like looking at chocolate cake and wanting a piece of chocolate cake is not gluttony.

But if I sit here and think about nothing but the chocolate cake and wish I had the chocolate cake and would be willing to take the chocolate cake away from somebody else who was eating it, I've now entered the sin of gluttony. And so taking the thought captive of, Chocolate cake is nice, but I don't need a piece right now. That's simple. Right. And I'm not.

I'm not repressing myself. I'm not being inhumane to myself by denying myself a piece of chocolate cake that I, in fact, do not need. Exactly. And it's important that you say it like that because you know what your critics are going to say. And of course, as much as you're getting great responses to this, you'll get slammed by critics who can't accept the possibility of change or a new life that you're experiencing in Jesus.

And in my book, Can You Be Anne Christian? It's one of the big points I make, the whole identity issue. I don't come from this background in terms of my own struggles, but I've talked to enough people and I understand spiritual principles that how we identify is of tremendous importance.

So, Michelle, we've got a couple minutes before the break. What would you tell someone right now? That's struggling. They identify right now as gay or lesbian. But God's pulling on their hearts.

What would you say to them? I would say this, Jesus' first miracle in the Bible was when he changed water into wine. And you know, Dr. Brown, because of how smart you are and what a scholar you are, that that water wasn't just water, it wasn't just drinking water, that was ceremonial washing water.

So it was dirty. That was not clean water at all. And he actually changed it into the very best wine. That's what the Bible says.

So Jesus' first miracle was to change the identity of something. And I would encourage anyone who is struggling, give that identity to Christ. My only identity is found in Jesus Christ. I join Paul when he says that. That I have been crucified with Christ, and it's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.

And by giving my identity over to Christ, he will change that. Just don't take it back. don't keep giving it to him and then when it gets hard, you take it back because that's easy, because he will, in fact, change it permanently if you just let him have it. Yeah, a ab absolutely. And All of us who've walked with the Lord have had Him do these deep, profound things in our lives on one level or another.

Hearing it from Michelle, again, I'm sitting here with her book, Prodigal Pursuit. I'm looking at the pictures. You can see the transformation just that simply. And will this book be helpful for parents and family members? who have kids and others struggling with these issues, would they find this helpful as well?

Yes, yes. I've I've been told by by many parents that they have found it um useful. I talk about my mom in there and how she was um you know, how she behaved in the beginning and then how she behaved towards the end and how that was helpful in my journey back. And her prayer, and how powerful that is. All right, the website prodigalpursuit.com, the book Prodigal Pursued, Michelle Smith.

May the Lord be with you to touch many, many gays and lesbians in the coming days. Thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. Brown. Hey friends, this is Michael Brown.

I want to encourage you to join our support team today. Become a torchbearer, one of our regular monthly supporters that enables us to broadcast the line of fire around America and around the world. And oh, every month we sew back into you in many, many different ways. Join our team. Become a torchbearer.

Go to ask Dr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, and click on donate. It's fire we want, for fire we eat. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on the line of fire. Let me give you our number.

I've got two books to give away. Gave away a few in the first hour. I've got two more books. Nick Hall. He led a gathering of, I've read, 350,000 believers in Washington, D.C.

on Saturday. Men like Robbie Zacharias and Josh McDowell spoke. And in fact, his book Reset, Jesus Changes. Everything has a forward, a joint forward by Josh McDowell, Louise Palau, and Ravi Zacharias. It's great little hard cover.

Endorsements from a wide, wide range of leaders, many of them very, very well known.

So, uh, published by Multnomah, but we're giving it away. I'm not trying to sell it to you. Uh, so it's it's about Resetting your life. The setup, living the dream, more to life, don't settle, good and also true, and then hitting reset. Jesus reset my faith, my plans, my self-image, my relationships, my purity, my habits, my affections, my generation.

So. Yours free.

Caller number six. 866-348-7884. Free copy of this great little hardcover book. Reset Jesus changes everything.

So listening to My guest, Michel Smith. Talking about coming out of an out and proud lesbian lifestyle, which for her also included. New Age beliefs. anarchism, feminism. All types of other strange beliefs, isms, agnosticism.

She said if there's an ism, she was into it. Became a district attorney. and from ages 18 past her 40s so 23 years As actively involved in the lesbian community as she could be. That would mean, as she said, not just the relationships, but the movies she saw. the places where she shopped, Etc.

Uh This this was um Uh this was Who she was, it was her identity. When she met the Lord, When she met the Lord, everything changed. When she met the Lord, everything changed, and here's how it began. Even though she didn't like it. She knew Jesus was Lord.

We do have a winner, but hang on, I've got one more book to give away. But we do have a winner, so thank you so much. We do have a winner. Uh Her feeling, it wasn't based on feelings or emotions, it was based on obedience. That's when she Yeah.

that everything was different. Right at that moment, God rushed into her heart and changed her dramatically. Take the first step of obedience. whatever is going on in your life. Take The first step of obedience.

If you know something is displeasing to the Lord, Say, even though I don't know how to change, Even though part of me doesn't want to change, even though I don't like this, I know that you don't want me to do it. And by your grace I'm saying No more. And by your grace I'm saying No more. All right. Mm-hmm.

That's where you start. Or you might say, I know one woman, she left her husband, it was in a lesbian relationship for years. And she said she didn't want to change. She didn't want to want to change. But there is something within her.

that even though she didn't want to even want to, there was that barely, maybe I would want to, but I don't want to something so deep and so weak But that's what she presented to God, and He helped her. He helped her and delivered her. Whatever's going on. First, acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus and bow your knee. Even if you say, I'm bound by this, I don't know how to change.

And I don't want to in the flesh, but I want to serve you more than anything. He will help you. Sandra from Natalia, Texas. Congratulations. All right.

Let's do one more, caller number seven. Call number seven, nicol, reset, hardcover, free. by the generosity of Nick and Multnomah. 866-348-7-884. Call number seven, so we'll do this quick and we'll give away one more before the show is over.

So For everybody listening, here's where things start. Here's where they start. They start with you saying, Jesus, I acknowledge you as Lord. And I want to do your will. Even though my flesh is screaming, I don't want to.

Even though my mind is saying, you can never change. even though it seems insurmountable. Whatever it is you're going to. For me, a couple of years back, it was dealing with food issues. Do you know what food issues?

Uh So Mm-hmm. We Start there. And we do have a winner, so thank you again, but we do have a winner. It starts with saying Jesus your Lord. And I don't want to keep living the way I'm living.

Be it Drug abuse, alcohol. Sexual addiction. be it homosexuality. be it stealing, be it lying. Be it just being backslidden or whatever.

Right where you are. Right where you are, God is. Do you understand that? And he's watching you this moment as if you're the only person in the world. He's watching you.

If you'll just say Jesus, I acknowledge you as Lord. And I want to live for you. God, help me. set me free. Help me.

If you help me, I'll follow. If if you throw me the rope, I'll take it. It's by his grace, it's by his power. And he will give you the grace to respond. I'm telling you, friend.

It'll be the first day of a brand new life, whether you're coming to Jesus for the very first time. whether you're returning to him. whether you're a believer who's been bound. This can be the first wonderful day of a brand new, radically changed. life.

That's the power of the gospel. Jesus died for every sin you and I ever committed, every single sin, even the ones that are so. Embarrassing, so shocking, we don't want anyone to know. He died for them, he rose from the dead. We put our trust in him, he'll never.

disappoint us. And if you've cried out to the Lord and He's come into your life, let us know. Shoot us a line at the website askdrbrown.org, askdrbrown.org. And we'll be blessed to pray with you and for you. And congratulations to Renee from Denton, North Carolina, on your.

Free book today. Have you wondered about how the Holy Spirit speaks? How you can be led by God, how you can really know the voice of God. Does he only speak through scripture? What about dreams?

What about Visions. What about inward sense perception? How can we really be led by the Spirit? I did a teaching on this a few years back, some years back, eight lectures, 12 hours, super practical, super biblical, inspiring, encouraging. It's at a really low price, but you can download it.

It's 60% off on the website, so it's almost a giveaway. Go to askdrbrown.org, order it, order for your friend as well. AskDrBrown.org, my bottom line today. You better believe to this moment, Jesus is in the business of radically changing climates.