Upheaval in Charlotte

There is major upheaval in Charlotte, North Carolina. What can the church do to make a difference?

Okay. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT.

That's 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you so much for joining the broadcast. We are going to have a very important, constructive, helpful, edifying, forthright show on the line of fire, as we always seek to do, especially in times of upheaval and crisis.

Now, you're going to want to make sure you have the number today if you don't have it in your phone already. 866-34TRUTH. That's 866-3423. Three, four, eight, seven, eight. 884, and you are going to help make this show what it is today with your calls, with your input, with your comments.

This is a national broadcast. I'm always speaking to issues of the nation, very rarely mentioning where I broadcast from, unless I'm on the road. I happen to be in this city or that city or this country or that country. And I'll say, hey, I'm live here, I'm live there. But otherwise, I am broadcasting from one location, but speaking nationally, never speaking regionally.

But there's one city in America that gets our show live for two full hours, and that is Charlotte, North Carolina. Other cities, you may get the first half hour, the last half hour, the first hour, or the second hour. You might listen to a delayed broadcast over the weekend on American Family Radio on Sundays. But we're focusing today on Charlotte. This is the city, the one and only city right now in America that gets two hours.

Of the broadcast live every day on radio, not just on internet, but on radio. And it's also the city that I am physically closest to, the airport out of which I fly. uh on a regular basis So if you haven't heard the news from Charlotte, The nation is looking in this direction. Last night, According to reports, a black police officer shot a black male. According to the chief of police, who himself is an African American, according to him, the man had a gun.

They do have the gun. in their possession now that he had a gun He got in the car, came out of the car with the gun, did not listen to police. orders supposedly there are witnesses who can verify this and a black officer shot and killed him. There have been protests and riots in the city since then. About sixteen police officers have been injured.

There have been tear gas used. There are police choppers that are in the air. A major thoroughfare was shut down by protesters earlier. one leader with the Nation of Islam is calling for a boycott. economic boycott and charlotte saying well black lives don't matter then black money will matter Family members say the man had no gun.

He had a book. Police say there was no book. There was a gun, and they have proof of it. Others have said, well, why shoot to kill? You've got the suspect in the uh in in in custody, uh uh a bomber, Islamic bomber.

He was shot and wounded. Why is this man killed? Obviously, after a shooting in Tulsa just a few days back, in this case, with a white female officer shooting an unarmed black man, that has been confirmed. He was unarmed, him being killed. Obviously tensions are very high, but what we are not going to do is lean into the emotions.

lead into the anger. Lead into a reactionary response, we're going to do our best to respond with truth. With wisdom, With justice, with clarity, and we're going to get your input as well. 866-3666-6666666 348-7884. As always, We are going to be constructive and redemptive in the midst of a lot of upheaval right now.

Don't go anywhere. I know you won't. Shake the nation. Change the world. Change the world.

Give us strict to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

They jumped off their trucks. They said hands up. He got a gun, he got a gun. Pow, pow, pow, pow. That's it.

He had no gun. All right, that is. A woman who uh Said Excuse me, that she is the victim's daughter in Charlotte. Saying he had no gun. Another relative said he was disabled.

He had a book. By the way, I stand corrected. Thank you. We are on two hours also in Richmond and Des Moines, Richmond, Virginia, and Des Moines, Iowa. That explains why I was getting certain calls at certain times.

Thank you. Thank you for letting me know that. Callers called in to let us know. 866-34TRUTH. This is what the police chief, himself African American, Kerr Putney had to say.

Clip number one. This is the statement from the police chief in Charlotte. Our officers observed a subject, Mr. Keith Lamont Scott. inside a vehicle at the apartment complex.

He exited the vehicle armed with a handgun. The officers observed him get back into that vehicle at which time they approached the vehicle. to engage this subject. The officers gave loud, clear voices. verbal commands which were also heard by many of the witnesses.

They were instructed in the subject. Once he got out of the vehicle to drop the weapon. In spite of the verbal commands, Mr. Scott. As I said, exited his vehicle armed with a handgun.

as the officers continued to yell at him to drop it. He stepped out. posing a threat to the officers. And Officer Brintley Vinson subsequently fired his weapon. Strike in the subject.

Now again It was a black police officer who who shot this man. And That has not stopped the rioting that has not stopped the protesting that has not stopped the outrage. Let all the facts be known. let everything be put on the table, Let justice be done. I think we all agree that's what we desire.

866-348-7884. almost without fail. If we get a lot of calls on issues having to do with police. and alleged police brutality. I say allege because there are cases where it's real and there are cases where it's not.

But almost inevitably, And you can't say 100% of the time, but largely. The perceptions of white Americans towards police are much more positive than the perceptions of black Americans towards police, and I believe both are truthfully reflecting what they have experienced. In other words, I don't think anyone is making something up. I believe that it is based on life experience and it's often very different. Why is that?

Why is it That black Americans Largely thought O.J. Simpson was innocent and had been framed by police. and white Americans largely thought he was guilty and the evidence was undeniable. Is it that one group is smarter than another? No.

One group more educated than another? That's not the issue. Life experience. Life background, which means we each have something to say to each other. Because we have different experiences.

Right? A mother can talk about childbirth to the father and the father can only understand so much because he's never given birth. He's never carried a child. It's something only a mother can do. On the other hand, a father can bring a perspective that a mother can't have just because they're different and they have different life experience.

It also means not only Do you have something to say to me, and I have something to say to you? It also means that I might have a blind spot that I'm not aware of, or you might have a blind spot you're not aware of.

Now, I've talked about these things before. But please understand, these are issues that we are going to talk about when they come up, especially right now to bring this close to home. And I'm going to set up a few things, and then I'm going to go to your calls and take as many calls as I can. Uh I was emailing a staff member last night. part of our our ministry team here.

And he said, hey, pray for safety. The protests right now are backing right up into our neighborhood. In fact, as protesters are being driven back and there's tear gas being used, and again, about 16 police officers were injured. You know, one officer hit in the face with a rock, and vehicles attacked, and things like that.

So, you're talking about a real volatile situation, and obviously, protesters could easily get hurt in the midst of this. And choppers overhead. This is right where we live. This is right where we live. This is not just somewhere else around the country or somewhere else around the world.

We have a pastor, an African-American pastor based in Charlotte, who will be speaking with us about an hour from now. And I spoke earlier today. with someone that I knew who had served as a chaplain. working with the police. And that would mean that he would spend a whole day with police officers, drive with them and be with them the entire day.

So I asked him. About his experience in doing this.

Now, it so happens that the officer that was involved in the shooting last night was not based in the neighborhood. Where the shooting took place. He was from another area and was there to serve a warrant, and while there, they they saw this gentleman allegedly with a gun Hence the things that followed. You say are they trigger happy? Maybe so.

Are they profiling black men? This area could be dangerous. Maybe so. Is it because they are racist? Is it because they have reason to fear for their lives?

These are questions that we must ask. And by the way, Some of you may get uncomfortable with the questions we ask, but we have to. We have to. We're talking about human beings, both the man who was shot and both police officers, human beings with families. loved by God, for whom Jesus died, Neighbors, colleagues, friends, co-workers.

And this is our nation, which is being torn up right now.

So you better believe we're going to ask uncomfortable questions. But I asked this gentleman who had served as a chaplain about Uh his his impressions and he said one thing is Everything the cops do right now is under a microscope. Everything they do is under a microscope. In other words, here's someone pulled over for a speeding violation, and another car is going to be pulling by wondering: okay, what are you doing? I mean, there's a white officer and there's a black suspect that was pulled over for speeding.

You might have another car with other African Americans pull over to see, okay, what's going on here? And is this guy going to be harassed or mishandled or something like that?

So everything they do under a microscope. And Hopefully Police will welcome body cams, hopefully. their attitude would be wonderful, let everyone see what we see. Look, if you're acting rightly, you want everyone to see a note, don't you? Yeah.

He also told me that to his knowledge, The Charlotte Police Force was racially diverse. to his knowledge was racially diverse.

So I asked this gentleman who had served as a chaplain, When you've been out all day, have you ever heard racially derogatory comments? Again, these guys are opening up their hearts, they're hurting, they're people going, you know, life's going on, and there's a chaplain driving with them and talking with them and then going on calls with them and things like that. He said, no, he never heard derogatory comments. Not to say there's not a racist cop out there. Sure there are.

Be it white racist, a black racist, an Asian racist, Hispanic racist, whoever, anti-Semite, I'm sure they're there, they're human beings. You gotta have a mix of that. But he never heard that. That never came up. He also wanted me to know that there are seriously committed Christians who are serving on the police force.

And asked him why do you think They become cops. He said the ones that he's gotten to talk with, it was not a power thing. It was that they wanted to clean up the community. They didn't want the crime, the violence, the drugs. And that's why they were cops.

And then I asked them, are they fearing for their lives? They said, yeah, in their mind, they're going to their job, like you're going to your job as a computer programmer. or as someone working in daycare, or as someone working in a grocery store. Or someone is a custodian in a building, or someone else is a school teacher, they're going to their jobs, but every day they know their life could be at stake.

Now Why do I bring that up? Only because for the most part you won't hear the police perspective. For the most part, Uh Is that the whole story? No, I'm just giving you a perspective. And there's not a side I'm on except the side of justice.

and the side of reconciliation. and the side of healing, that's the side I'm on. And I trust if you're a follower of Jesus, each and every one of you, That you are on that same side with me, that we are siding together for justice. We are siding together for reconciliation. We are citing together.

Siding together for truth. We are citing against brutality. We are citing against exploitation. We are siding against whatever problems are ravaging communities, whether it's breakdown in the family or drugs or crime or wherever it is.

So as God's children speaking constructively, How do we address the problems? That's what we're going to talk about. And your calls are next. As soon as we come back, we are going straight to you. Our colleagues, I'm eager to hear your perspectives.

Let us speak the truth in love one to another, and let's all say, Lord, I'm listening. Where I need to hear something, where I've got a blind spot, help me to hear. We'll be right back. Shake me. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. At the end of the day, for me, it's not about the cops versus black people. It's about black people being killed and oppressed and hurt every single day, being treated as if we're not citizens, we're not equal, we're not human.

That is Corin Mack, president of the NAACP. uh weighing in on yet another police shooting and here she's saying it's not a matter of Racism in the police versus white versus black, as much as black deaths. Don't seem to matter. 866-34TRUTH. Want to hear from you.

I've got a lot to say also, but want to hear from you. We'll start in Boston. No, we don't. We will start in Richmond with Rayanne. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hi, Dr. Michael Brown. Hey. Um I have a strange question to ask you about what's taking place with the police brutality and the bombings in New York and New Jersey. Is this the end of times, doctor Brown?

Are we or is it just that people have given up and our society has become so without Christ in their life or without the Holy Spirit working in them? Are we headed down that road. Is that what all No, no, no, I don't No, I mean listen, uh we're obviously Always heading towards the end of the age, every day it's closer, but no, this is just to me another blip. Another, yeah, we're talking about human lives, we're talking about people, so it's not a blip in that respect, but no, compare this to the Civil War in America, where a nation almost completely fell apart. And we we lost more than a half a million people.

uh with with the war Over slavery. Compare this to world upheaval in World War II, with what, maybe 20 million people dying as a result of that. Compare this to an atomic bomb being dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and things like that in terms of times of war. Compare that to the terrorist attacks in Syria. And the upheaval in that nation.

So it's a time of concern, for sure, and a time that America is really being challenged. And above all, we need to take the signs and get on our knees before God. But if you're talking about end time book of Revelation type of upheaval. No, no, we're we're nowhere near that. And the fact that we just be doing regular radio broadcasts and you're going to work and we're having our families in our homes and life is pretty normal in that respect.

No, no, that type of end time upheaval is completely off the charts. But It's just another symptom. We're in a fallen, messed up world, and we need to pray, and we need to wake up as believers and do what we can to be voices of wisdom, reason, and justice. Reconciliation eight six six three four truth. Uh, let's go to heart.

All right, let's go to Ken in New Jersey. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Doctor Brum. Hello. All right.

Yes, Dr. Brown. Yes, please go ahead.

Okay. How could we get the truth out of the police? We're not going to get the truth out of the police anyway. because the police is not the police is investigating the police and the police is not going to bring the truth out.

Okay, so why why do you why do you think, sir? Yeah, why why do you think hang hang on one second hang on one second? Why do you think the police chief in Tulsa immediately said to the nation, The man was unarmed. He did not have a weapon, and there was no weapon in his vehicle, and we will get justice. And why did she say that immediately?

And why did this police officer say that there are witnesses? to the man having a gun and not Listening to police orders. I mean, why would one police officer say no gun? We want the whole world to know that, and there will be justice. Why would he do that?

And another officer, police chief, say something else, and a black police chief. I mean, Why why would they Why would one give out damning information and the other give out information if everyone knows it's false? That's because you have no choice. But let me say this. Since all this Kind of shooting is going on.

I wouldn't say that there's like how you claim it's to a black policeman shooting a black man. It doesn't matter if it's a black, white, or whatever police. A police is a police. And what is happening is that No, you get scared. Who should you be scared of?

The police? Or should you be scared of the thief? You don't even know. You may get a better chance off with the teeth because you may just rub you and go. But with the police You mean who's their life?

All right, but Ken, what percentage, let's just ask this then. What percentage of black men and women are shot by police. Compared to shot by gang members in neighborhoods, shot by fellow black Americans who are criminals, because every sector of the population has criminals. What is it, a thousand to one? 5,000 to 1, 10,000 to 1.

that that blacks are being killed by other blacks. as opposed to police officers.

So, and when you have the police officers then pull back Because they feel that whatever they do is going to be accused of using access force. And where they're guilty, sir, they're guilty. Where they're guilty, let them be exposed. Were there cover-ups let them be exposed? And it's becoming increasingly difficult to cover up.

Good. I'm glad. Let there be more evidence. All right. If you're a police officer and suddenly you see people pulling out cell phones to take pictures of what you're doing, in the heat of the moment, is that a cell phone is that a gun?

understand things can get volatile and difficult. But but in point of fact Yeah, um Talib Starks. In his book, Black Lives Matter, Talli Stark's an African-American. Said for the last three and a half decades, blacks have accounted for more than half of America's homicide victims. Yet a group that literally calls itself Black Lives Matter somehow didn't care to exist until Trayvon Martin was killed by George Zimmerman.

Evidently, not one of those black-on-black deaths prior to Zimmerman Martin was sufficient to start a Black Lives Matter crusade.

Furthermore, during the 503 days between Trayvon's death and Zimmermann's verdict, Thousands of blacks were murdered, but their killers didn't have George Zimmerman's pigmentation. They had dark pigmentation.

So those lost lives, like the thousands that were killed pre, during, and post-Trayvon's life, didn't matter to a group that deliberately named itself Black Lives Matter.

So here as a black man. As a black man, he's taking issue. He said the national tally of black males 14 and older murdered in America over a 30-year period from 1975 to 2005, 1976 to 2005, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, is 214,000. Six hundred sixty-one.

So that's That's obviously a big, big issue. Don't those lives matter.

So, sir. Where there's a breakdown in the justice system, let it be exposed. where the courts are unfair. Sentencing a black man to a disproportionate sentence compared to a white man. Where that exists, let it be exposed.

Where there is any systemic injustice. prejudice, racism, let it be exposed. On the same hand. Uh on the same token, let us not exaggerate reality and they police into the villains. as if they're the primary threat.

to black lives right now. That's not the case. Hey friends, we are addressing everything head on. With our website Equipping You, Strengthening You, go to ask Dr. Brown, ASKDRBrown.org.

Take advantage of the resources there. And if you're helped by this broadcast, let us know. Stand with us. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It's time for the voiceless majority to stand up and be heard.

It's time to change the narrative. Because I can tell you from the facts. That the story is a little bit different. as to how it's been portrayed so far. Especially through social media.

Yeah, again, that is the voice of Police Chief Kara Putney. As he is weighing in on what happened in Charlotte last night, the city is in. A state of upheaval. And uh according to Charlotte police, they warned the suspect to drop the gun before shooting. According to family members, the man had no gun, but rather was reading a book.

Um I'm looking at. Oh, let's see. Here is a report from. Black Panther leader. I res I mentioned it earlier saying Saying that, excuse me, a nation of Islam.

Did I say Black Panther? I think I did earlier. Stan corrected. Outspoken leader of the Nation of Islam calling for an economic boycott of Charlotte. That is, B.J.

Murphy called for the boycott today at a news conference of black leaders, saying if black lives don't matter, black money shouldn't matter. Again, the question was: was the Suspect armed Was he doing anything to get the police's attention or to threaten the police? And again, it is a black officer who shot the. black man Why was he shot dead? Was there something else that could have been done?

These are, again, all questions have to come out. Will there be a fair investigation? Will the truth come out? Will we know? If you're a white American, do you feel confident that there will be a fair outcome?

If you're black American, do you feel that there will be a fair outcome? Do you think the police can be trusted? You think the courts can be Trust it. 866-348-7884. I asked you a question on Twitter.

And said, please only respond if you're an African American. And I think demographically my Twitter followers are about the same. number, percentage as in the population in general.

So the the response I'd get would be representative and reflective of of that portion of the population that that would be following me. I said, please only respond if you're an African American. Do you feel that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson represent you? Because obviously, these are voices that are being heard at Al Sharpton in New York with the sister of the. Black man who was shot in Tulsa, in this case by a white police officer, and it was confirmed that he was unarmed.

There was a charge that he was reaching into the car for something, and that was the concern from the officer. And then an attorney for the family said, Look, you'd see from the video and pictures that the windows were up. He wasn't reaching in for anything.

So Al Sharpton is speaking with the twin sister of the man who was shot and killed in Tulsa. And by the way, you may have two totally, completely unrelated cases. One where the shooting was merited, one where the shooting was unmerited.

Okay, that could be the case. But I said, you feel that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson represent you? I gave four choices: absolutely, somewhat, not much, not at all. That's just the first handful of votes that have come in, but between not at all and not much, 88%. Only twelve percent said somewhat, so six said absolutely.

6% said somewhat. 11% said not much. 77% said not at all. And yet who's before the media? That's why this police chief was saying that the voice of the majority, the silent majority, needs to be heard.

So. How do we sort these things out? We're going to be right back with your calls: 866-348-7884. I have been tremendously helped by the perspective of my African-American friends who've called in for years now, sharing more of your life experience with me that has helped to fill in blind spots in my life experience, which was very different.

So I appreciate that. And you know me, I'm going to do my best to be honest. My goal is not to make everybody happy. My goal is to speak the truth and love and thereby help you be equipped to serve and make a difference. Great to the phones when we come back.

Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. Sand. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, we are going right back to the phones starting in Washington, D.C. John, welcome to the line of fire. How you doing, doctor Brown?

Thanks for taking my call. I was contemplating several things as I listened to your show, and it's always challenging to me and uh So one of the things that I realized that I you know, just so you know, I'm uh I'm a fifty year old uh White male. And so I sit in a certain demographics, but I've had to dig out a lot of fret. that I've had in my life through different experiences. And as a Christian, I I just want to know if you'd agree.

with me on the that You know, we have to be really careful about the The media. Influence and the party line that we take, you know, I think it's important. For justice to be served, absolutely, and I think God's a God of justice. But I also know that God's view on justice is different than man's. And so a couple of callers back, the ladies was saying, is this the end times And all of that.

And I think to some extent this is that form of godliness that you know is a deceit in the sense that people want justice, but they're not willing to be just about how they approach it.

So for example, the police chief down in I think you said Texas announcing that In Tulsa. Yeah, and Tulsa. And a conclusion. that was not based in knowledgeable fact and and therefore there's a a desire for justice. Yet.

not a process Right, yeah.

So, what we have to do, John, and I appreciate you searching your own heart and looking for areas where there might be prejudices or wrong ways of looking at people. We can all have that, regardless of who we are or what our background is. But What what often happens is we get inflamed by the media. We get inflamed by opportunists. We get inflamed by people who want to use the latest crisis to make the news, who want to use the latest crisis to fund their organization or to increase their profile.

And you have to ask a question. Generally speaking, say look at the elections. Is the media inflaming tensions and exacerbating divisions, or is it helping bring people together? Obviously, the former as compared to the latter. Broadly speaking, about secular media, it's the same here.

So we have to do our best to get facts first. Before we respond, and then we don't just react in an emotional way. Yeah, emotions are fine, they have their place, but they can't rule us. We think things through. And we say, okay, this is right, this is wrong, and then we take our stands accordingly.

866-348-7884. We go to four. All right, boy, a lot of callers can't stay on today. 866-34TRUTH is the number to call. Let's go to Boston.

Elizabeth, thanks so much for calling the line of fire. Yes. Hello, doctor Michael Brown. I appreciate you being there. I thank God for your service.

And my name is yes, I am Elizabeth Hooper. I was attacked by Officer Paul. They gave him a slap on the wrist. Put him on a desk job, promoted him to lieutenant. I called 911 that the landlord, the former late, he's now late to elderly man, who's a good man, but his older son tried to rape me.

I called to tell that when the police officer came, I was happy. I opened the door. The door hit me in my breastbone. He choked my neck. He tried to break my neck off, twisted my head behind me, and then attacked me.

His partner didn't do nothing. other than lie on the police record, you know, trying to back up a fellow cop, but he wouldn't come to court, no, and he didn't show up, but brought it Who ain't promoted to a lieutenant? to a a sergeant or a lieutenant, gave him a double-breasted jacket. He would come by the house, stick up his middle finger, he said one he would threaten me with one of these nights we're going to get you, Miss Hooper, when I sit on a a horse cart and trying to get fresh air in a hot summer night. He lied under oath when he lied in court.

I screamed out, Your Honor, he's a liar. And then he laughed. I said, See, he's not even denying. And he laughed, and then a court sheriff came and touched me on that arm and that shoulder way. He twisted my neck and my hair.

He said, You can't talk I said, Well, nobody gave me a a a a a a what do you call it? a court appointed attorney. Nobody g gave me the Amanda rights. And when officer elitha late and said, Well, you just be here a few hours. They got here the story, got documented.

Instead, that Paul Dunlap has him take me down to the courthouse And and Reverend Reverend um um Dickerson. He's a witness 'cause he came and bailed me out. He was the only one number I could think of as doing all this. They didn't give me no food, no blanket. I'm a frostbitten hypothermic, severe hypothermic, severe frostbitten of woman and frostnip because there was no heat.

And I'm not sure. Yeah, Elizabeth, let me just add uh first I I feel terrible that that you had this experience. He pulled his revolver and told me to run nigga. All right, so so so here's the thing. This is a national radio show and specific names are being mentioned.

We can't get into cases or anything like this in a setting like this. No, no, no, no, I no, I now the commissioner of the Boston Police and still he won't call he won't return my call and resolve it. I've been calling every month. Since this happened, I want a pardon. I wanted to get work they see it lost I lost cheek.

I go to the hospital for my leg wounds and things. They would play. You know where they would put me uh Dr. Ma uh um Now here's my question for you though. Here's my question.

Do you feel Honestly, in your own experience, that this happened to you Because your skin color. Yes, sir. He called me nigga. He cuffed my hands. I wasn't the one to be cuffed.

I wasn't the one to be pushed up against the car. Life's major surgery. I got the scars because I got so badly infected. I had to say, young man, would you please button up my coat? When he saw.

He said, oh. And do you feel that the court were afraid to speak up because they know what the Whitey Balls, the cops would do, they would kill them. When you can call speaker and brought that right in front of everybody and people would tell me later, well, they were afraid to speak. I understood that too and I forgive 'em. And do you feel that you did not receive fair treatment in the court because of your skin color?

because of my skin color and because of the fact. That when I go to the court, the only one that did right was the judges. Every time I go to try to make that complaint with the court, They take my stuff, lock me up in jail. And I signed my name to get my stuff back. Or they locked me up in jail, doing to bring me before the court.

are before a judge different strain judges And the judge would ask, Well, what's this woman doing here? And I just scream out, See? See, your honor, God is my witness And then the uh officer said, You can't speak here I said, Well, nobody else will speak for me, if I don't say nothing, nobody gonna know nothing Yeah, well, that's the goal. Yeah, let me let me let me just say this. First, Uh again, let's Let's just Bring this to the Lord.

Father, you know everything. You know every detail. where there has been injustice, where this woman has been mistreated. Where there has been racial prejudice. Lord, would you bring it to the light and bring justice.

And if everything is as she says, Would you bring those to her to ask forgiveness for what they did?

so she can look them in the face and say, I forgive you. Father, we put that in your hands. and Lord, however she has been wounded unjustly and hurt, bring full healing and restoration. Hey, uh Elizabeth, um Thank you for calling. Again, I'm I'm only sitting here as a radio host, a minister of the gospel, but a radio host.

And all I can do right now is thank you for calling and pray because we don't I don't know details and I'm not there in the court system. But uh when you hear this call, friends. Are you nodding your head saying, Yeah, I've been mistreated also because of the color of my skin? And I'm not paranoid about it, but I can tell you it's happened. Or are you listening saying those things never happen?

What's your perspective? As you hear that, hey, Elizabeth. Thank you. Thank you for calling. eight six six three four eight 7884.

Let's go to Ibrahim in Georgetown, Massachusetts. Welcome to the line of fire, sir. Thank you, doctor Brown. This is Cripple A. Ah, okay.

Yes, yes, I remember you. An African, African-American. I remember a triple-A. How could I forget that? Yes, thank you.

So again, I always like to start with being able to distinguish between African American and black.

So every time we hear that somebody has been shot, it is for the African American, not black. Um Because, uh It's a problem that affects usually the African American population.

So that out of the way, I think to be able to the the pro the problem is not police brutality and shooting.

So let's say that Um the the police shootings go go down up to zero, that it no longer happens in the African American communities. I don't think that would solve any of the problems that that community has. I think that community doesn't ha feels like we don't have opportunities. and they're profited in Angry And so the res the responsibility to Because they they they feel that's the way to do it, even though it's the wrong way to do it. Tell you what, let me just jump in.

I got a break. We'll come back to you.

So, speaking as an African, African-American, saying that his experience coming from Africa has been different than the experience of many blacks in America who are. previous generation African Americans. We'll be right back. Age the world It's fire we want, oh fire we It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Once again, we are having constructive conversations about. race relations in America.

and the situation that many black Americans find themselves in. What are things that we can do redemptively as God's people? How do we address these issues?

So back to Ibrahim and a Triple A, an African, African American. What year did you come over to the States again? Um I moved permanently five years ago. From what country? From Kenya.

From Kenya. Okay. Yeah, so back to your perspective on even if you had no police shootings of Innocent black victims that would not change the problems faced by black Americans.

So What are those problems? What's the solution?

So let's talk about something like homicide, you know, black on black. That's not going to change. um the poverty and employment Those are the real issues that are affecting the the African American population. And Yet the race issue becomes the main uh agenda or the push I've got to use to be honest, a little uh off in terms of the times that we are in America. Uh we are we do not the civil rights movement has already run its course.

because now things are open. There are opportunities to pursue. But running on that agenda of civil rights, It's not going to bear any fruits because you cannot even pinpoint those issues that you're dealing with. I mean, yes, there are a few cases. of you know that shooting, another shooting there You know, which I mean which we we don't go uh we don't get the real details most of the time.

But the real concerns that were driving the civil rights movement is not the issues that we have now. That's why it's a very confused movement. Right now, it's a It's connected to the game movement. I mean, it's all over the place. And You ask people who support that movement what solution will be, they they don't even have an idea where they're going.

You know, they don't have a It's just a matter of renting out.

So I I do think the Um I do think it's going to be a major challenge because it doesn't have a goal, it doesn't have a mission, it doesn't have it's just there, it's a fr it's a frustrated lot that doesn't really know how to address its problems. And yes, so if you ask and I appreciate that, what are the clearly articulated goals Obviously, everyone wants to see justice. We agree. on that. But what are the goals that are being set?

And what's going to bring about deeper lasting change. 866-34TRUTH. We go to Charlotte, North Carolina. Will, welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Doctor Brown.

Thank you. You bet. I wanted to kind of talk about I think I don't know if it was you or you were quoting someone else, and I think Abraham just kind of alluded to the same point of black on black crime. And I just don't understand what the relation between black on black crime and police brutality have with one another, they're apples and oranges. Yeah, so let me just comment and then you can explain.

Yeah, I was quoting a Talib Starks, an African-American, from his book Black Lives Matter. And he was saying, if black lives matter, then what about the thousands more victims, you know, gang shootings and things like that, a three-year-old kid shot by drive-by violence. If black lives matter, why don't they seem to matter when it's at the hands of other blacks, as opposed to if it's a white killing a black, then black lives matter.

So that's the comparison. There are there are there apples and oranges for sure in terms of if there's police brutality or if there's systemic injustice or racism or violence. Yeah, then we're comparing apples and oranges. But that was the context of the quote, if black lives really do matter. Then, as an ex-gang leader, an African-American ex-gang leader said, Black lives do matter, but it must matter to black people first, meaning.

Problems within the community where there are more lives being taken.

So that's the context, but over to you for your comment.

So I don't that point that the author of the book is making is I completely disagree with it because the difference in my perspective or the way that I see it is black on black crime or crime in general is far more difficult to manage. Then You know, police brutality.

So you comparing Or the outrage of African Americans over black on black crime is obviously there, and people who say that it's not there. Whenever people do say that, it just is an indicator to me that they have not been involved with black communities too much because. there are programs and movements and people who are in the trenches getting their hands dirty every day regarding the black on black crime that's taking place in our communities, but it's a very, very, very difficult task, I mean, to handle that.

So the the difference to me is managing police brutality and think about the the history of The police brutality and the things that have gone on in the black community, managing those things, in my mind, are far easier. to to deal with And to say, hey, we've got millions of gang members across that have absolutely we have absolutely no idea what they're doing on a day-to-day basis. They're doing stuff at the whim of there's no leadership there. But with within the the the police uh precincts across the country, you know, those are things that can be that can be handled, that can be and and and by the way, so so in my mind, Outrage is issued. should be at a higher level.

when you're talking about police brutality or police corruption. When you're talking about criminal behavior, you know, right, because of what we expect from police and justice, et cetera, and because of the power and authority they have. All right, let me insert some real quick, and I want to let you respond, but we're short on time, so I'll try to be concise. One, what if someone said, yeah, the police brutality is a result of their fearful for their lives because of the high crime rate? You'll hear that.

And two, maybe it's easier to address police brutality, but if the bigger problem is gang violence, et cetera, doesn't there need to be more energy and more public outrage about that?

So back to you, Will. Yeah, so absolutely.

So I agree with the, you know, there's a certain level of fear. With with that comes with policing in any community, right?

So, but but yeah, obviously if there's more crime, there's gonna be no uh another level of fear. Uh but that fear in my mind does not excuse Um you know, police brutality. Overreaction. Yep, agreed. Agreed.

Yeah, or or overreaction. I mean, there should be more training there. What was your other question? I'm sorry. Yeah, the other question is.

Since the bigger problem, though, in terms of lives being lost would be gang crime and things like that, shouldn't there be the that's where we need to hear Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson. I don't doubt you that you say within the communities there's outreach, but that's not what the rest of the world hears or the rest of the society hears. But listen, Will, I apologize. I wanted to give you the maximum time. I'm out of time, but let's continue this conversation.

This is the conversation we need to have. And thank you for weighing in and taking exception. I appreciate it. That's why we have open phone lines, and this is the kind of constructive dialogue we need to have.

So I'm out of time, but thank you, sir. And we'll continue. We'll continue to talk.

Next hour, I'm going to speak with African-American Pastor Gabe Rogers, based in Charlotte, North Carolina. My bottom line today. The church must lead the way as being salt and light, which means exposing the wrong and being a moral conscious. There is major upheaval in Charlotte, North Carolina. What can the church do to make a difference?

Okay. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. This morning, I spoke at Chapel Service for Inspiration Network, and I brought a message, changed what I was planning to address, and spoke on 10 reasons. My Christians should lead the way.

and racial reconciliation. The whole nation right now looking at Charlotte, North Carolina. We are on two hours live in Charlotte, North Carolina. I fly in and out of the Charlotte airport on a regular basis. And with the shooting of a black man by a black officer last night, it triggered riots, protests in the city, helicopters overhead.

Tear gas being used, more than a dozen cops injured in the aftermath of riots and protests. What's the right response? What's a righteous response? What's a godly response? We'll talk about that.

And I'll be joined by a local African-American pastor shortly. 866-348-7884 is the number to call. And let me share with you these 10 reasons why Christians should lead the way in racial reconciliation. To read the article yourself, go to ask Dr. Brown, ASKDRBrown.org, and just click on Digital Library and type in the word racial or reconciliation, and that article will pop up for you, among other resources.

So my 10 reasons in not in a half hour or an hour, but in three or four minutes. Number one, We're called to be salt and light. That means we illuminate the darkness and we provide a moral compass for the nation. In the words of Dr. King, the church must be reminded that it is not the master or the servant of the state, but rather the conscience of the state.

It must be the God and the critic. Of the state and never its tool. But he also gave this warning: if the church does not recapture its prophetic zeal, it will become an irrelevant social club without moral or spiritual authority. Number two, we have unique unity, having the same Father and being saved by the same blood. Number three.

We are called to be peacemakers and ambassadors of reconciliation. Didn't Jesus say that the peacemakers would be called children of God? Number four, as those who have been forgiven We can forgive others. Number five, in Jesus there's neither black or white, yellow or red. In that sense, we are all 100% equal, equal standing in God.

No higher, no lower, no caste system, no class system. We're equally priests of God, equally branches of the vine, equally sons and daughters of God, equally members of the body of Christ. 6. We know the life-changing power of the gospel, and with God all things are possible. Sure, there are gospel-based solutions for the traumatic things taking place in our nation.

Number seven, we have a common enemy: it's Satan who wants to kill, Satan who wants to destroy, Satan who wants to divide. Number eight. We understand spiritual warfare and the power of prayer. We're not just dealing with natural forces. There are demonic forces who want to bring destruction.

Number nine. We understand the power of the tongue. We know that death and life are in the power of the tongue. Proverbs 18, 21, Proverbs 12, 18, the words of the reckless pierce like swords, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. We can speak words that bring life, not death, words that bring healing, not harm, words that are constructive rather than destructive.

And number 10, we know how the gospel has changed America in the past. Christian leaders led the way in abolishing slavery in the 1800s, overcoming the objection of other Christians who upheld slavery. And the civil rights movement was birthed in the church and often spread through the church. overcoming bigoted views that remained in other churches.

So, if the gospel could bring down the walls of slavery and segregation, surely it can bring down the walls that separate us. Today. As a fellow follower of Jesus, I urge you to make a positive contribution in whatever sphere of influence you have, be it. Large or small. We're going to speak with a pastor right here in Charlotte, North Carolina.

We come back, and your calls are welcome. 866-348-7884. Shake. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Earlier today, I was speaking with Matt, my producer, about who we could bring on that could speak directly to the situation in Charlotte, North Carolina that is being looked at by the entire nation. He said, yeah, Pastor Gabe Rogers immediately gave him contact info and so glad that he had the opportunity to join us. He pastors Kingdom Christian Church in Charlotte.

He's also a professor at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary and an African-American man, married to an African-American woman with a largely African-American congregation, and Christian first and foremost above all.

So I believe he is an ideal man to bring on the show right now. Gabe, welcome to the broadcast. Thanks so much for joining us. Hey, Dr. Mm-hmm.

It's a pleasure to be on your show again. Wonderful.

So let me ask you first, just your general feelings, what's going through your heart and mind as this hits our own area right now?

Well, you know, Michael, I will be candid and honest. My heart Morn. uh when I saw the footage seeing our young men out they're uh throwing rocks um getting emails from Members of my church who have husbands in law enforcement saying, Pastor, please pray. For my husband, who has to work 12 hour shifts, I want to make sure he comes home. My heart mourns because Like no other time, we are in a time of lawlessness.

Um I most certainly totally disagree with racism. I'm totally against. any and every type of hate And on the other side of the coin, I am also against reactions. uh uh that are lawless that further compromise. Us as a people.

And when I say us as a people, I'm not just referring to African Americans, I'm referring to mankind. The Bible teaches us that in the last days, nations will rise against nations.

Well, I kind of think that's where we are, and it's very sad. And I think we got to do a better job of promoting The love of Jesus and helping our culture to understand that Christ is still the answer. We've got to train our children at home. Even Michael, we have to know. and teach our kids how to respond to authority.

That when someone says freeze, that we do just that, even if we have a gripe. Uh and we know how to function in those spaces.

So my clear position on all of this is and Is that we gotta value both sides of the coin and understand that racism is horri horrible, put plainly. And that we also have to know how lawlessness and looting and all those folks who are taking drastic advantage of a Person losing their life for their own benefit is also very wrong. Sir Sir, do you feel that there is still in America systemic racism. You know, Michael, I'll be honest, I do feel like there's systemic racism still alive. I don't think it's going anywhere.

Um I'm I'm as you've noted, a highly educated man myself. I have a PhD and Pretty strong background, but I myself in my own career have come up against glass ceilings. before. I think the saving grace has been the good old adage of Psalm seventy five, that promotion doesn't come from the East, West, North or the South, but it comes from above. And so when Christ is promoted in our hearts, we understand that at the end of the day, no one can withhold anything from us That Christ has for us.

So is systemic racism here? It absolutely is here. But is the greater problem hate? Um I think that's the greater issue. Um and By all means, we don't need to do away with forms of law that keep our society civil.

So, why do you think it is, and this could tie in with what you just said, that your average, and this is, I'm speaking totally broadly, totally generalized, your average white American has more trust in the police and the justice system than your average black American, which was highlighted with the OJ trial. And as I have open lines with my radio show, as I hear from callers around the country, you can pretty well break things down demographically when you hear about the latest police shooting, that there's going to be a higher mistrust among black Americans that the police acted rightly. And among white Americans, a higher trust that the police were doing the right thing. Is that based on our life experiences and some level of inequality, or is there something else going on? You know, I do think it's two-pronged.

I would most certainly say that we'd have to look at some data. and recognize that There there are stronger indications that African Americans get harsher judgments when going to court that African Americans have been dealt with differently in many contexts. historically.

So I think that mistrust theme can be vouched for in some of those reigns as being valid because of experience.

Well, this is this is sort of what we've been taught culturally s on a social level. But I also will, and this may be outside of your question, but I want to make sure it gets in the interview. I also don't vouch for the hypocrisy. amongst African Americans, which is We are so upset over the death of folks who were killed by Caucasian officers, but. uh eighty percent or more of the Black Murders in Chicago, which is a bloodbath.

Our black on black prompts. Um blacks abort more babies than they give birth to.

So, you know We gotta stop, you know, shutting our eyes to ourselves. There's a beam and moat concept going on. We're trying to remove one piece of the the problem without recognizing what I would consider an internal problem when our young boys are shooting each other down every day. In neighboring cities, if you will. And we've had some of that happen in Charlotte.

I've officiated and preached the funerals. of twenty year olds, twenty five year olds. who just made bad decisions in life.

So I think there has to be a broader look at This And not just hone it down to systemic racism, although, Michael, I will go on record as saying, yes, it's still here and it is still a problem. Yeah, and by the way, I don't doubt you. It's not my own experience or background or the way I was raised, but I don't doubt you for a split second. Otherwise, I'd have to write you off and write off countless callers who've shared the exact same things, law-abiding, God-fearing Christians, honoring authority, who've talked to me about what they've run into, what they've had to overcome, difficulties and challenges.

So I don't doubt that for a split second. And it is important that these things are addressed. The problem is when we're addressed the wrong way, when they're addressed with, say, looting and rioting, and the people doing it fit in with some negative stereotype of some inner city criminal, then instead of others that need to see the problem, they just say, ah, see, it's those troublemakers and information, right? Yeah. And, you know, when you mentioned the hypocrisy, yeah, there are two issues.

If there is systemic racism, it must be addressed. And then on the other hand, Where are the Al Sharptons and the Jesse Jacksons over the other killings? And I was just looking at stats yesterday that African-American author Talib Starks presented. But he had a total of those killed in the Jim Crow era, so whenever it was in the 1800s up to, say, 1960-something. And it was like 3,600 lynchings.

It was just a horrific number. Absolutely horrific number. But he said that's the number of black fatalities at the hands of blacks every six months. in America today.

So, how do you then feel? And we've got two minutes before the break. I appreciate your time because there are a bunch of questions I want to get into with you. But how do you feel? You yourself, as a Reverend, as an African-American leader, as a professor, as a PhD, so serving at various as a counselor, professional counselor.

How do you feel about the Al Sharptons and the Jesse Jacksons? Do you feel that they're helping black Americans or not?

Well, I'm I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm appalled. I'm appalled at their initiatives On on so many social levels except for the ones that really count, like abortion. Uh like the blood bath. that are in Chicago that I just mentioned. You know, I I I think that There has to be a greater emphasis placed on Teaching our youth in our home.

It's funny, we're doing this interview today. You know how many young black men I saw today in my counseling practice?

Well, guess what? I showed them video footage. I showed them video footage of what they should not be.

Well, I'm hoping that people like Anal Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, who should be leaders, would start standing up and saying, hey, guys, When authority says freeze, Yeah. Just that. And if on the back end we got to come and sue or we got to come and do something else, You'll still be breathing and you'll still be alive. But when you do go forward and take your own initiative and take things into your own hands, guess what? You're not here to tell us what really happened.

You're not here for our activists, for our attorneys to get involved and really do something about this. And exactly, Michael, to have our youth out in the streets uh acting in such A way that further confirms Confirms what other people want to think about African Americans adds to the problem. Yeah, so rather than Fight against the systemic racism, it gives fuel to the fire of racists. Wise words from Pastor Gabe Rogers, kingdomchristianchurch.org. If you live in Charlotte, check it out.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I'm speaking with Pastor Gabe Rogers, Kingdom Christian Church is the congregation he leads. I've had the profound joy of ministering to his flock a few times and absolutely love being with them. To find out more, go to kingdomchristianchurch.org. And just one quick note before I resume with Pastor Gabe. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, you know that Terrence Crutcher was shot.

Video showed him with his hands up. And here's a black man shot by a white female police officer. Immediately, the police chief publicly said, I want it to be known he was unarmed and no weapon was found and there will be justice.

Now, he wasn't throwing his police officer under the bus, but he's saying right off the bat, yeah, this concerns us. And here I'm reading this note from... The Tulsa Regional Chamber, Chamber President and CEO Mike Neal. First and foremost, we at the Tulsa Regional Chamber wish to express our heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Terrence Crutcher. We grieve with you for his loss.

His family members are part of the Chamber family.

So is his loss also felt deeply within our community. In the midst of this tragedy, we command Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan and Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett for meeting with the Crutcher family and community leaders as the details of the story first became known. Both Chief Jordan and Mayor Bartlett have exhibited professionalism and transparency in handling the situation thus far. And we trust this will continue throughout the investigation.

So here's a police chief and the mayor immediately meeting. With the family, it doesn't bring the man back, but these are the kinds of things that need to be done.

So, Gabe, back to larger concerns within The African American community right now. One thing anybody will immediately spot visiting your church is: you're about families, you're about kids, you've got moms and dads actively involved, working men and women, and yet there is a disproportionate number of babies born out of wedlock in the black community, disproportionate number of babies aborted. disproportionate number of people On welfare, and this is post-Civil Rights Movement. Do you think that this is part of? An intentional desire by some sectors of society to keep black Americans down and hence these policies meant to be helpful are actually harmful?

Do you think it's Satan causing a breakdown of the family or their people mean well, but they've hurt others with the welfare system? It's a big question, but you're a thinker and you've addressed these issues for years. Speak to me candidly. Yeah, well, I love almost every answer you threw in there, Michael. I will most certainly.

I think that it starts with Satan. I think it's evil. I think that anytime there is a moral decline, it is. put candidly because Of evil and some things that have been put in place. We know, going years back, even from the creator of Planned Parenthood, she She was clear about getting the Negro preacher to be evasive of certain issues and to.

champion certain causes and Somewhere along the line, convinced our people to denigrate family values. And that's where we have landed. You know, back when I was a child. Having a baby out of wedlock started to become more and more popular. We know as of today, 28% of all black men will end up in prison.

28%? That is an astounding statistic, especially when you add that to those who will be killed. an abortion or on the streets. Even those who Yeah. Murdered like the Person in Oklahoma.

who were saddened by Being shot in such a scenario. But I think our big problem is the moral decline. I'd like to share this, Michael, Deuteronomy six. Uh and and seven teaches us that we should teach our children diligently. We should talk to them.

when we sit in the house and when we walk by the way and when we lie down and when we rise up. Basically, the Bible teaches us that we should teach our kids in the home how to perform as dad. My three sons will learn how to be good fathers. Not because parenting was subcontracted out to a teacher in the public school system, especially these days. They're going to learn how to be good dads because of what they see in me.

Right now, Gabe Jr. He says it every day. Daddy, he's only five. I want to be a preacher and a businessman, and I want to fly all over the country.

Well, guess what? He is being cognitively trained now. To think like a man, to have responsibility, to love his wife, to do those things as early as the age of five. And I think one of the major fallacies that happen with African Americans is DADs became unnecessary at a certain point. Many of our men, and we're to blame for that, bruised our women over time.

We went to jail, we died in the streets. And we are getting the product now. We are reaping fatherless sons. Who would have learned authority? Let's keep that in mind.

A boy learns authority from his dad. One of the things that makes my three boys act right, and one of them's too young for this, but one of the things that makes them act right is we got to spare the rod, spoil the child philosophy, so they know they have no choice.

So by the time they go and meet Dr. Michael Brown, In seminary school or at the college and university, guess what? They're answering you, yes, sir. No, sir. That is their immediate answer.

Because they have been trained. And I think that if we want to Win the culture back again, we're going to have to go back to fundamental values on this stuff and really tap back into. Um raising up children and youth and strong men Who knows how to regard their homes. And then, of course, our sweet wives, daughters, and sisters. will have a solid foundation to layer upon.

And the thing that's so ironic is that in many ways In black American culture, family is even more highly esteemed than in certain white American circles. And yet, there's been this tremendous tearing down of the family, but it still comes back to: if we have, we start right here, we start today. Following Jesus and following biblical principles, beginning in our personal lives and families, that fixes 99% of the other issues. Uh you you nailed it. You knocked it out of the part.

When Jesus is Lord, When we seek first the kingdom of God, Righteousness, everything else. Is added unto us. It works that way. And it's amazing to your point, Michael, how society is looking for answers in so many different in other domains Instead of breaking down and remembering that if my people who are called by my name would humble themselves, pray, seek his face, turn from their wicked ways, He'd heal our land. And if African American communities are going to be healed, Guess what we got to do?

We got to do what some folks did even in the times of slavery. You know what they knew how to do, Michael? They couldn't do much, but they'd start singing songs like Let's Go Down by the River.

Well, when they began to sing that song, Let's Go Down by the River, that was a song siphoning the group that later on. Let's meet down by the river for prayer. and they would pray. And the blessing of coming through the Jim Crow era. Was that our forefathers were able to pray and break the bind of the enemy?

And this is the reason why men like myself today can build a new church as we're doing right now. We own a counseling center, we own certain other things. What is the power of prayer in destroying darkness? Yeah. And To find out, sorry, to jump in there to find out about Pastor Gabe Rogers and his church, kingdomchristianchurch.org.

We'll be right back. Yeah. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. We are focusing on upheaval in Charlotte, North Carolina, riots, protests after a black police officer shot and killed a black man last night. According to his family members, he was reading a book.

According to police, he was armed with a gun and made threatening motions, and therefore he was shot and killed. Of course, massive uh upheaval over that and About a dozen or as many as 16 officers injured, cars trashed, police using tear gas, and this is right in our backyard.

So, speaking with Pastor Gabe Rogers, and Pastor Gabe holds a PhD. He is a counselor and a professor at Gordon Columbo Theological Seminary, pastor of Kingdom Christian Church. If you're in the greater Charlotte area and want to find out about their church, its dynamic, I've been blessed to speak there on a couple of occasions and thoroughly love my time there. Go to kingdomchristianchurch.org. Pastor Rogers.

Big question for you, sir. Mm-hmm. the welfare system Which leads to an entitlement mentality. Let's say that in the aftermath of segregation, People meant well. We're trying to even things out.

We're trying to help those that did not have help. Has this empowered, and this is not just black Americans, but those who are impoverished in general or in inner cities, has this system helped? Or has it hurt? The advancement of people who, one way or another, because of society in the past, have been underprivileged, helped or hurt. You know, I like the answer of hurt with an astrid.

There are some well-meaning. pure individuals by which work the welfare system. I've been blessed to work with Pro Two Had systematic monies to help them get their counseling services and such. and who have legitimately got on their feet. Um and got got back on track and and and do quite well in life.

So I say hurt with that astridge because I think the overwhelming micro impact has been That it has systematically hurt, as you put it, not just African Americans, but all those. impoverished who at a certain place in that system just found it easier to stay on the system. Um There is no incentive. What's the real incentive to come out of entitlements? What's the real incentive to decide?

this glass ceiling of just getting by on well enough.

So anytime there is just a handout as opposed to a hand up, I think that it is harmful. One of the things I've noticed, even I can use the model of our counseling practice, we find that those folks. Who pay a copay? Instead of those folks who just get services freely, guess what? They come back a whole heck of a lot more often.

They're a lot more committed to their work. They're a lot more committed to getting better. Because unfortunately, sometimes Free means taken for granted. And I think that Whether it be housing, whether it be monies, and again, I say that with a preface. That there are some well-meaning people who come through a helping system and are doing quite well today.

That's theatric, but I think it has hurt. Many of us And that it has just become common practice. And it then becomes, and I'll stop here, it becomes generational. because whereas some of our kids grow up seeing dad get up and go to work, My parents just celebrated 50 years of marriage, and one of the things I saw my dad do is he got up and went to work every day.

Well, guess what that did? It it made me a work working man.

Well, When our kids grow up and they don't see that, they begin to shape their minds around life with a handout. as opposed to life with working for what you get. Ah, all right.

So I'm going to speak to counselor Gabe Rogers, Dr. Gabe Rogers, when we come back. about the entitlement mentality. and the victim mentality. Hey, how many young people wanted to vote for Bernie Sanders and get a free college education?

This is not just a black issue, young people issue. This is across our society now. Give us strength to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey very important announcement to all of my friends listening right now, driving in your cars, in your homes, all over the Dallas-Fort Worth area. I'm coming your way this next week.

So, One week from tonight, September 28th, a special equipping session at Gateway Church: how to deal with the challenging issues of the day: moral, cultural issues, hearts of compassion, backbones of steel. That will be at Gateway Church, September 28th. I believe that starts at 7 in the evening. And then next night, I'm specially staying over to have a listener rally. This is going to be an intimate meet-and-greet meeting at North Richland Hills Campus.

So, Gateway is hosting this for us at North Richland Hills Campus. That's 7501 Davis Boulevard in North Richland Hills, 7 to 9. 7 to 9 on Thursday night. I'm going to give you a short, inspirational, encouraging word, tell you about some of what we're doing in ministry, take you behind the scenes, answer your questions live, face to face. I'll get to shake your hand, take some pictures together.

So put that on your calendar, September 29th, meet and greet, 7 to 9 p.m. at the North Richland Hills campus of Gateway Church, 7501 Davis Boulevard, in North Richland Hills.

So I'm speaking with Pastor Gabe Rogers, holds a PhD as a professional counselor and a seminary professor.

So, Gabe, let's talk now with your counseling hat on about the entitlement victim mentality. Obviously, that can get played into when you have race riots, that it just becomes a matter rather than looking at larger issues, you can just focus on we're the victims. And then again, larger issues of justice don't get rightly addressed. It can happen in the larger culture. Young people thinking the world just owes me a better place, a happy life.

I'm entitled, why is that so prevalent in our society today? How do we address it? How do we fix it?

Well, you know, you knocked it up the park when you said young people Feeling as if everyone owes me all my love to the millennial generation, but I will tell you. that we raised up monsters. Um we we we raise up monsters when We did not. implement and institute values, teaching them to work, teaching them how to put one foot in front of the other and do better. than the generation previous to them.

Many of them have come in a spoiled in this space. And so the entitlement systematic Damage just kind of continued on and on, and I can do it with my counseling hat. Michael and Pastor had at the same time. Of course, I'm thinking about some folks who. we've literally at our church given cars to more younger couples and been a strong blessing to help them get back on their feet And I tell you, we don't see those people within two months of those gifts.

So I I think we did a disservice Um When we took work ethic out of society, it's funny how the Word of God teaches us, Deuteronomy 28, 12, that God would bless the work of your hands.

Well, you know, we've allowed a lot of those values to just roll right on out. And the entitlement mindset of I can just get by right here with what government is giving me, or I can go church to church and just get by on benevolence, or I can do whatever as long as someone's giving me something free. Has created a monster both culturally and societally. And again, that's not just a black problem, but across the continuum. And I think it's we're looking at the harvest of what we produce.

All right, so as pastor, counselor, father, professor, you put on all the hats at once, whatever you like. How do we address this? How do we fix it at a practical level? How do we work against this entitlement, me first, generation selfie mentality? I love it, Michael.

Number one, the church is going to have to get back in place. With preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean, I'm just going to put it candidly: pastors. Have to go back to teaching, discipling. Uh because discipling is different from preaching.

Uh but discipling, getting in the trenches with families. We got to start raising up well meaning young men. We got to teach our young men how to cut their hair and and pull their pants up. We got to teach them the Word of God. We got to teach our young ladies how to preserve their bodies.

Um for the long term. And we got to get back to, again, that Deuteronomy six concept where we also, letter B or part two of the answer, teach it in our homes. What you're seeing going on socially right now, and I know you and I agree to this, you have preached dynamic messages about this. at my church. And I mean I just love you for it.

But what we're dealing with right now is a Jesus lift society. We're taking God out of everything. If you go back years and you would remember, Michael, when. They took prayer out of the school. They take prayer, want to take it out of armed forces, want to take it out of everything.

If we don't get back to fundamental godly morals, Um And all that we do We will continue to produce monsters and reproduce monsters. And I say that with much care. I am in no ways calling anyone who was recently gunned down a monster. I don't know any of these people, and I don't know the full story, so I'm careful when it comes to that. But I do know that as a general Yeah.

what I see across the board. And our young people are folks who don't regard law. Don't regard authority. And if we don't go back to instituting that while they are children, They will grow up, and it most certainly will be too late. And that's the problem when you try to train a 25, 27, 30-year-old.

On how to act appropriately. And Michael, we're talking about fundamental. Rules of respect and engaging. How to act appropriately when you're doing that after the fact, you got an issue. because sometimes it's too late, even from a cognitive putting my PhD hat on from a cognitive formation.

This person is already formed, and unless the grace of God, which it can do. gets practically put in place and breaks down some of those walls and barriers, guess what? Personality-wise, they are who they are. One of the reasons why, and I shared this earlier, but one of the reasons why I know how to shake someone's hand. Uh and not give them DAP.

Yeah. not give em pound, as I had a father who taught me how to shake hands. Who taught me how to shave? You follow me? And some of us, and many of our youth, don't have it in no fault to their own.

Well, guess what? Us men. In our community, that's now our responsibility. The coaches, the pastors. the professors, the community leaders.

I spend countless nights with young people in my offices. And married couples, you name it. Just trying to get them to understand you don't have to be in that statistic of being divorced by year five. That doesn't have to happen.

So we have to get in the trenches. We got to break curses. and we got to reinstitute at the end of the day Jesus Christ. back into the moral fiber of our culture. Revival.

Yeah, revival. Yeah, real holistic revival that produces disciples. Absolutely. And it is interesting. I've got to get my hands on the exact report, but it was a very simple statistic that when you had in the inner city communities or in African-American communities a higher percentage of young men in church, lo and behold, you had a lower percentage of crime.

And it's going to be the same with any of us. If we're in the Word more, with God more, we're going to do right more, and we're not going to do wrong as much. All right. Two minutes. Last question for you.

You have also stood strongly in terms of moral and cultural issues when it comes to redefining marriage and things like that. You talked about the importance of having fathers in the home, but now with the redefinition of marriage, you can have a situation where you have two dads. or two moms. Again, you've got years of counseling experience. What's missing when you have the absence of either a mother or a father?

How important is it for a child to have both in their upbringing? Both of them are sold germane, and that's what makes The movement towards two dads and two moms, so evil and so wicked. You see, a young boy needs his mom to nurture. To be caring and to be understanding, to rub his head for the first time. And that same young boy needs his dad.

To take them outside and have them box them up under a basketball goal and dunk on them and take. Tell him to get back up and come on, shoot again. You know, he needs that. He needs the muscle of his father. He needs his father to nurture him, too.

He needs his dad's thug. But he most certainly cannot be made into a man as he would be with just his mom. Thank God for those folk who had the grace of God and they still became great men despite a father. But he needs a necessary dad, and he needs a sweet, loving mom. To care for him and walk him through.

See, oftentimes, and I know I'm down to 60 seconds. We we get away from God's best. Can you raise a child with one parent? Of course, you can. 'Cause God will be a father to the fatherless.

But what's God best, Michael? And that's what I always tell people. you know, it's just God's best for my four children to have. Gabe and Stephanie Rogers to raise them up to be um well meaning people in this society. And I think that that's what we gotta get back to, because if we keep making exceptions just because certain groups of people want it their way.

We're gonna be in big, big trouble. Yes, we are. I'm with you step for step, sir. And you knocked it out of the park. KingdomChristianchurch.org.

Gabe, thanks for joining us today.

So much money. Hey friends, this is Michael Brown. I want to encourage you to join our support team today. Become a torchbearer, one of our regular monthly supporters that enables us to broadcast the line of fire around America and around the world. And oh, every month we sell back into you in many, many different ways.

Join our team, become a torchbearer. Go to ask Dr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, and click on donate. Got a It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I want to share my heart with all of you for a moment. Thank you so much. For being faithful listeners.

Thank you for your many calls of appreciation, your many notes of appreciation. Oh, yeah. I get blasted day and night in the most hateful, ugly ways imaginable. It comes with the turf, it comes with following Jesus in a public way. But I am so appreciative of the many words and notes of appreciation that you send our way.

And one thing that blesses me is that when we talk about controversial issues, Issues that divide so much of our culture. On this broadcast, we don't divide, we come together. Oh, I'm going to offend people by speaking the truth. I'm going to offend people by sharing openly and honestly. Deeply held convictions, I have.

And sometimes what you say may offend me. The question is: are we speaking the truth? Let's think it through together. But overwhelmingly, We are going to draw people together to do the right thing about the issues. You know how easy it is for me to get on the air as a radio host and provoke all kinds of emotions and kind of preach to one particular choir.

And everybody's all stirred and shaking their fists, and all the ratings are great, the controversy, but we haven't helped anything. All I've done is stirred people up in the flesh. All I've done is stirred people up so that they're worked up and reactionary. as opposed to Let's look at the situation and let's come up with redemptive wisdom. And let me say again, the church is needs to lead the way in racial reconciliation.

We have commonality in Jesus. I've said this so many times. I want to say it again. We have a unique unity in Jesus. We have a unique calling in the Lord together.

So I've been in India and seen it there. Untouchables and high caste working side by side, even intermarrying, which would be absolutely unheard of. Why? Because they're one in Jesus. I was speaking at a meeting some years ago and talking about the 60s and the craziness of the 60s.

And there's this old joke because of all the drug use and the hippie craziness of the 60s. If you remember the 60s, you weren't there. You weren't living the life of the 60s as many of us were. I was talking about the 60s. I was talking about the Eastern religions and the crazy movements going on.

And I started asking people in the congregation where I was speaking, many of whom were roughly my age, were you doing crazy things in the 60s? Were you protesting? Yeah, we at this campus, we took over this building. And were you into Eastern religion? Oh, yeah, I was a Buddhist.

I became a Buddhist. Oh, yeah, I was into transcendental meditation. And then there are two couples sitting next to each other, a white couple and a black couple. The white guy raises his hand and he goes, I was in the Ku Klux Klan. The black guy raised his hand.

He goes, I was in the Black Panthers. And we all laughed. And these two hugged each other. That's. gospel unity.

You say, yeah, but it's not just hugging each other. They're real issues. But that's where we start. We start with our unity and with mutual love and respect, And if I care about your life and I care about your well-being and you care about my life, you care about my well-being, we can find real solutions to the problems that are dividing us today. I want to encourage you to pray for the work that we do.

People say, how is it you take all the attacks you get, you get maligned and attacked and death threats and death wishes and doesn't seem to bother you. One reason is I've got prayer support. Another reason is I'm called to do this and there's grace to do it, but I have prayer support. Can I encourage you to be part of our prayer army? Part of our prayer warriors.

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Some of you to give that amount is a real faith stretch, but if the Lord lays it on your heart, Stand with us today. Would you, if you appreciate the broadcast and the work that we're doing and how we are your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity, go to ask dr. Brown, askdrbrown.org, and just click on donate, and you'll see the option to become a torchbearer there. on a totally separate note. Totally separate note.

Breitbart.com reporting this.

Now, of course, this is a strong pro-Trump website, but they are reporting that after. Donald Trump met with Egyptian leaders, including the Egyptian President El-Sisi. After Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump met with them, they had high praise for Trump. And we're very critical of Hillary Clinton.

Now, this is especially noteworthy because this was Trump's first meeting with Muslim leaders.

So, if he is offending Muslims in general or alienating Muslims in general, that is not. Evident at that point, at this point, in terms of his meeting with an Egyptian leader. And what's interesting is that another part of the delegation was upset with Hillary Clinton because, being part of the Obama administration and agreeing with certain policies of the Obama administration over the years, that The Muslim Brotherhood, which almost tore up Egypt, was supported by the United States. And they're concerned that Hillary Clinton would continue in that wrong policy.

So isn't that Interesting. Very interesting, for sure. And I thought I should report that to you. And don't forget, you can still get Jonathan Kahn's book of mysteries. It is already a best-selling book, getting some very excited reviews.

You can get that and sort through it. 365 mysteries. You'll find many of them eye-opening, edifying, with wow, and others like, well, I'll study that more. Let me look at it. 365, not just one, one for each day of the year.

You'll also get the interview we did on the line of fire and my exclusive book, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah, say exclusive because you can't buy it, but we'll give it to you when you order. Go to the website again, ask Dr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. My bottom line today. The solutions to our country start with each of us individually, getting our lives rightly aligned with God, then from there to family, from there to community, from there to the nation.

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