An Interview with J. P. Moreland, an Activist Mom Takes on Teen Vogue, and Commentary on the News

Christians in the midst of a fallen culture. How do we shine our light? I'll speak with Professor J.P. Moreland today. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Welcome friends. To the Mine of Fire Broadcast. This is Michael Brown. I am delighted to be with you today.

Number to call 866-348-7884. 8665. Three for truth. As always, number to call. I'm coming your way.

From Hamilton in Ontario, Canada, today. If my voice sounds a little different, I'm in another part of the world. If you're anywhere near Hamilton, Ontario, come hear me tonight. Speaking tonight and tomorrow night in a small little place called Copetown. Come here every year for a number of years now.

And in Oh, about a half hour from now, I'm going to be speaking with Professor J.P. Moreland, respected philosopher and apologist. And in the second hour, Speaking with a woman better known as the activist mommy, we've got a lot to talk about. Today. Friday night I really just wanted to wind down Friday night, Saturday day, if I'm not out ministering, that is the Sabbath time for me.

And if I feel led to write during that time, I'll do it. It's ministry, it's not work for me. But otherwise, I'll do my best just to wind down. and not write and not do some of the things that I normally do. But I was just so burdened.

I was so burdened. I felt I had to. I had to write. An article. to fellow leaders.

brothers and sisters in the ministry. and urge them please Please. Speak. It should In love. when it comes to homosexuality.

You say, why that subject again?

Well, the evangelical world was quite shaken last week. when Professor Eugene Peterson It was the author of the paraphrase of the Bible, the message, the Super Super popular paraphrase. When he said at an interview that if he was asked to perform a same-sex, quote, marriage wedding, that he would do it. And he mentioned that it was never really a big issue to him in the church world. That sometimes a congregation may have had a gay or lesbian couple, but their spiritual life seemed the same as everybody else.

And just not a big deal.

Well, within twenty four hours, he posted a major retraction. Washington Post published it, Christianity Today published it, and he said, no, I wouldn't do that. I have respect for the church. Historically and today, I have a biblical view on everything, biblical view of marriage, one man, one woman. And instantly, instantly.

the shaking going all around them? What's the church's position? And The the I'm not here to throw doctor Peterson under the bus. We, without success, tried to make contact with him since last week. Hopefully, we still can.

And I'm glad he issued the retraction, although certain parts needed to be stronger. But here's the problem. Wherever I go around the world, And all over America. believers come up to me and say thank you for speaking about these things because very few are. That should not be the case.

The Bible is absolutely clear. God's word is absolutely clear on the subject. And we're talking about The the greatest Spiritual cultural challenge that the church is facing in America and even in other nations. And it is an inquisition in terms of you're going to have to take a stand one way or another. and you will be penalized for standing for the truth.

And you'll be penalized for speaking the truth in love, but we must, we owe it to our kids, to our grandkids. We owe it to those attending our congregations who identify as LGBT. We owe it to the nation. The time for ambiguity, the time for dancing. Around issues.

The time for skirting around things is long since. Over. You can read that article on our website, askdrbrown.org. We'll be right back. Age the world O God of burning, cleansing flame.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us today on the line of fire. This is Michael Brown, and I am delighted to be with you. 866-348-7884 is the number to call. Have you downloaded the introduction? And the first chapter of Saving a Sick America, absolutely free.

Say not yet. What are you waiting for? Do it. Take a minute to do it, especially if you're listening online and you can easily just sit there at your computer as you're listening. Go to savingasickamerica.com.

All right. Saving a SickAmerica dot com. And You'll see right there how you can download free. It'll say the first chapter, but you actually get the introduction and The first chapter, which trust me will have you rivet it while you're there, watch the trailer. Three minutes.

Long, excerpt it from the introduction. I think it will catch your interest. People are writing to us and saying, wow, it's a compelling video. They're stirred by it, they're gripped. And then, if you want to order the book, there's instructions about doing it there at savingthasickamerica.com or What you can do.

We only do this with the first printing of the book.

So we'll mention it now and not again for a while. Mention it this week and not again for a while. But the first printing of a new book. We found that folks really enjoy this, that we number the first copies that come in, one to 100, 100 to 500, however many orders there are. And then we sign them.

Specifically, with a scripture reference as well.

So it's kind of a collector's edition of the first printing of a book. And you can order that on our website, askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. I preached at my home congregation. Fire. Yesterday morning.

And my message was go for souls. Go For the lost, every one of us has something that the world needs. Every one of us has something that the lost need. And if we will give ourselves Uh be it in prayer. Be it in Sharing the gospel with a neighbor, an act of kindness, something where we reach out with the love and truth of God.

We have something that the world needs. And I shared something. From my book, It's Time to Rock the Boat. which came out in 1993, okay? Came out in 1993.

And it is A call for God's people to rise up and preach a confrontational gospel. And I want you to hear what I wrote. This is 1993, okay? And I wrote it in the midst of the beginning of the Bill Clinton presidency. I wrote it in the midst of us.

you know, thinking, okay, back then, if we could just get the Supreme Court one more appointee under George H. W. Bush, it'll go in a certain direction. Yes, very similar to what we've been thinking for decades now. Here's what I wrote in 1993.

The Church of America must come to a difficult conclusion. You must face the cold, hard facts. It's too late for our nation. It's too late for moral reform. too late for a social transformation.

Too late for a return to the good old days. unless masses of sinners get saved. Otherwise, there is no hope. For too long, we have sought to make ungodly people godly without converting them from sin. We've tried to make immoral people moral through words, actions and votes, but it won't work.

It can't work. Those who are accustomed to evil cannot do good unless the Lord grants them a new heart. We must go after the souls of lost men and women. That is the call of the church. I don't want to lay a guilt trip on you.

I don't want to make you feel sad. But Can we do this by going to an exam at the doctor's office? And you go in, you get a physical examination, and you find out how your health is. And if the doctor says, okay, this is wrong, that's wrong, it's not to condemn you, it's to recognize a problem so you can then address it.

So Here. You have a situation in our own spiritual lives. Many of us are used to it. Many of us are so caught up in it, we don't even realize that we are in it. But can I ask you a question?

When's the last time? You shared the gospel with someone who doesn't know the Lord. Again, I'm not saying that to condemn. We're doing an examination. When's the last time you shared the gospel with someone who didn't know the Lord?

It could be face to face. It could be online, social media. Could be by letter, phone call, could be a stranger. Could be a loved one. When is the last time You shared the gospel.

with someone that didn't know the Lord. Ah. Maybe it's been a while.

Some of you, hey, just today I share the gospel all the time. Great.

Some of you, it's been a while. Maybe. Let me ask this. Have you ever led anyone to the Lord? Since you've been a believer.

Have you shared the gospel with someone in such a way that they came to faith? Or were you part of a chain sharing the gospel that someone else took it the next step, someone else the next step? and someone ended up getting born again, where you played a direct role in someone's salvation. Or perhaps you were Burdened to pray for someone. That was lost.

And you, by praying for them, helped pray them into the kingdom. You know, you were burdened for them and you prayed for them regularly, and not long after that, you got saved.

Well, surely your prayers. Played a role in that. Again, I'm not saying this to condemn. But I am saying this to examine your life and to say, okay, do I really have a burden for the lost? Do I really believe people are lost?

Remember our Saviour Jesus. Said to Peter and John, the others, follow me, and I'll make you fishers of men. As one of my grads pointed out, he didn't say, Follow me and I'll make you apostles, or prophets, or evangelists, pastors, teachers, but Follow me, and I'll make you fishers of men. That remains our call. We follow him, we will become fishers of men and women.

Jesus himself tells us in Luke the fifth chapter that he came into the world to seek and save the lost, and he repeats that elsewhere. That's why he came into the world, and he died for the sins of the whole world, and now it's for us to share the good news with others. And the most radical thing that we could do The most radical countercultural thing that we could do is share the gospel with people who do not know Jesus. And if we can help lead someone from death to life, from the kingdom of Satan to the kingdom of God, from darkness to light, from bondage to freedom. We can do that.

the impact that we will make is dramatic.

Now look, here's what happened. Many of us who were not raised in the faith Many of us were Partying in the world, sinning freely in the world. Maybe you were raised in the faith, fell away for a period of time, but that was me. I was in the world, living in sin, not raised in the faith.

Well, when I got saved, my circle of friends, they're all lost sinners.

So I'm talking to them day and night as I'm coming to faith. Once I come to faith in my early days of being a believer. And talking to them and inviting them to church services. And this is all we're talking about day and night. And then a number of them got saved.

And over a period of time, the ones that we're going to hear, heard, the ones that we're going to come to church services did. others didn't. We we separated. I wasn't partying, getting high with them. They weren't going to prayer meetings with me.

It's not that we became enemies, but our lifestyles did not intersect the way they used to. If I'm at a church service at night and they're getting high at night, well, obviously, we're in two different places. And then what happens is you end up in kind of a bubble. where the great majority of people that you spend time with are other believers. And our fellowship activities are around other believers.

And our focus is around other believers and the needs of the people and the congregation and family. And it's good to care about our brothers and sisters and obviously to put our families first in terms of our where we minister and give our time. But what about a lost and dying world? What about the neighbors on either side of you or others in the community? What you may be a mom home with kids, there are probably other moms home with kids, or you get to see them or a local playground or.

There are opportunities. Lost people in a grocery store, someone that needs prayer. Is there i i if we ask God, Lord, can you give us a list? Just like people give you a list of job openings somewhere, right? Or real estate available, houses available.

If we said, Laurie, do you have a list of unsafe people that are right? within ten miles of me. We probably have thousands of names. that God would give us, you know, or hundreds of names. A co-worker at work.

Someone you ride public transportation with, a random person you end up sitting next to that you normally don't.

Someone at a restaurant. we are surrounded by a lost and dying world. And while we must cultivate revival in the church, it's critical, it's essential, it's the will of God for us to be revived. If we are revived, America will be shaken. But the only way America can really be turned, friend, The only way America can really be transformed is with the gospel being preached.

With lost sinners being saved. That's the only way we're going to see any type of real reformation in the society, in the culture. And it was. Uh C. H.

Spurgeon. who said in prayer, oh, that the Lord would saturate us through and through with an undying zeal for the souls of men. C. H. McIntosh, no Christian is in a right condition if he is not seeking in some way to bring souls to Christ.

David Brainerd. I cared not where or how I lived, what hardships I endured.

So that I could but gain souls for Christ. All right, we'll be right back. The next time change the world change the world, for fire we please It's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Hey friends, this is Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire 86634Truth. In a little while, I'll be speaking with Christian philosopher and apologist J.P. Moreland.

I am broadcasting from a different office here in Hamilton Ontario in Canada. And in the in the room with me, there is a fish tank, decent size fish tag. And Dylan, it looks like where that pump with the air is still there.

So, whatever we had to unplug something of some kind of filter, something else is making a lot of noise, but Seems to be okay now. And oh, wait, I don't see any fish in here.

So, there are no fish. We don't have to be concerned about turning the thing off if we're going to hurt the fish. There are no fish there. All right. The first segment I talked to you about our need to speak with clarity.

about the great cultural and moral issues of our day.

So here I am in Ontario. Where it is the law. We were talking as we drove up last night. it from the airport in Buffalo. It is the law.

in the province of Ontario. If you have a child say an eight-year-old child. The child a boy identifies as a girl. All right? And you, as his parents, say, Johnny, you're not a girl.

I know you really feel like you are, and you want to be, but you're not. God didn't make you like that.

So we're going to pray. And we're going to talk to some friends that are really wise, and we're going to try to find out why you feel that way. But no, you can't go to school wearing a dress, and we're not going to call you Jane, okay? But we love you, Johnny, and God made you just right, and we're going to find out why you feel like this.

Okay, Johnny. Johnny. is is upset with that and goes to school crying. And this teacher says, well, John, why are you crying?

Well, I know I'm really a girl and my parents, they won't accept it. And they don't know that I know and they don't know. And well, that teacher could then report that to the government. All right. because this is now under the category of child abuse.

The government could then take your child from you. This is in the province from whence I am broadcasting now. All right? This is actually the law here. And what happened is One conservative leader got out, was replaced by a lesbian activist.

And then a number of new regulations were passed by one guy who's now in jail as a pedophile, according to what I was told last night. But there is a radical activist agenda. and nothing being made up here or exaggerated, okay? I'm talking to educated people who live here and who are telling me the details And I had a professor on, a Canadian professor on, who talked about these very things a few weeks ago, a number of them in Canada. You say, well, why should we be concerned about these things?

There is a reason to be concerned about these things. Picture your kid being taken from you, because the categories of, quote, Sexual orientation. And Gender identity. Have now been listed. under potential child abuse issues.

So let's say you're a kid. was coming to school. And the teacher noticed that there were Uh uh the the child was looking sickly, all right. The teacher noticed that there were bruises on the child's body. When they asked the child about it, the child got very quiet.

And so they get some child welfare services to look into it and find out that the child was being beaten as an alcoholic father. And he's beating the child and he's having Control, well, they could take that child away for that child's own safety. You could understand that. Right? Government intervention.

Well, the government could intervene if a kid identified as the opposite of their biological sex and the parents didn't affirm that. They could be taken from the parents by law. And then taken to be raised by someone else that would say, okay, Johnny, you really are a Jane. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine it?

But it is the law. Can you imagine drag queens? Reading stories to two-year-olds, two-year-olds, in libraries in America and talking about drag and being a drag queen to two-year-olds or three-year-olds. You don't have to imagine, it's happened.

So we address these issues to awaken the church to stand for righteousness. because none of this would be happening. If the church in America had been awakened and spoken the truth in love. and address these issues and at the same time, Reached out with compassion. to those who identify as LGBT.

We would not be in the situation we're in today. At the same time, This is the second segment of the show. Today. And this is just tying them together in case there was no clear connection for you. At the same time, while we stand for righteousness, while we do what's right, while we speak what's right.

America as a nation needs the gospel. Uh atheist Muslims, Buddhists. Jews, Hindus. People of no particular faith, people of all types of syncretistic Faiths combining different beliefs. All right.

Traditional Christians who don't really know the Lord. church going Christians who are Christian in name only and are just Hypocrites. All right. America needs the gospel. Yes, there must be awakening in the church.

We must repent of our lethargy. We must repent of our complacency. We must repent of all of these things. Yes, yes, to all of the above. And We must share the gospel with broken hearts for dying world.

You say, I don't know. I don't even think about it.

Well, then pray that God would give you his heart for the lost. Does he show you that people are lying? Not just a nice neighbor or co-worker. That person doesn't know the Lord according to the gospel. They're lost, they're outside of God's grace.

If they were to die right now, they would be lost. They would not be with the Lord forever. It's a great tragedy that people die without the Lord, but it's a greater tragedy that we didn't tell them that the price had been paid. I mean, picture someone going to their execution Just because someone failed to tell the warden that a pardon, a full pardon, was issued because the person has been found to be not guilty. Think of that.

Can you imagine? We have a friend Who years ago Was asked by his brother when he was going out, hey, could you just go play these numbers for me at the lottery? I got a good feeling about the lottery. one of these multi-million dollar affairs at that point. And the brother Uh went out, but forgot I do it.

to stop at the store and play the numbers for his brother.

Well, that night the the guy who had the numbers and wife, they're watching T V and where they've got the the Power Ball thing, whatever, they're gonna show you, you know, what the numbers were, and they come up and it's like, we won. Wait. That's our number we won. Those are the numbers we played, only to find out that his brother forgot. to play them.

Friends, it's It's a far worse tragedy that You don't share the part the good news, the forgiveness. people who are lost. We have a life-changing message, friend. May God give us His heart for Lost Design World. All right, we'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Well, every October, there is a very special event in Greater Charlotte, North Carolina. It is Southern Evangelical Seminary's annual apologetics conference. As far as I know, the biggest in the nation. often several thousand people there.

And it's a whose whose list? of top apologists, Christian thinkers addressing all the issues that we all deal with living in this world in a biblically sound, intellectually sound, philosophically sound manner. As I live near Charlotte, I get to participate in this regularly. I'll be speaking this year. And we have the joy of getting some of these special guests who are highly in demand to join us on the radio in advance of the conference.

And one known to many of you is Professor J.P. Moreland. Many of you have read his books. He's Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology, Biota University. California.

He's taught there for 25 years. years And some of his books are classics that are widely read both in the secular and Christian world. It's a great joy to have JP Morland on the air with us today. JP, thanks so much for joining us. Oh, Dr.

Brown, if I may, call you Michael. It is really an honor to be with you. Thank you for having me on. Oh, thanks. And I just presumed to call you JP, so allow me to do that.

Absolutely. Thanks. Let me ask you this. I know my own background, coming to faith as a Jewish believer in Jesus, and then being challenged by the rabbis. I was kind of thrown in the deep end of the pool and had to learn to swim.

How did you get involved in the whole area of philosophy and apologetics, bringing these two together? Yeah, good question.

Well, I came to Christ in 1968, right, kind of in the Jesus movement. I was a physical chemistry major. at the University of Missouri. And so I I didn't know anything about The humanities I I thought philosophy was psychology misspelled, so I uh I started sharing my faith. And I was getting my rear end kicked.

I didn't have answers to anything. And so I began. To just try to read to answer people's questions and my own questions. I eventually I joined staff of Crusade from seventy to uh seventy five and It was really as a result of evangelism and discipleship leading people to Christ and the questions they were getting. That I realized that most of these questions came back to the same.

ultimate discipline, and that was the discipline of philosophy. And so I actually started studying it and reading it. and found that unbelievably useful in just helping answer people's questions. All right, so so free. for you, the academic study of philosophy ultimately down to something practical.

In other words, it's not the question of a tree falling in the forest, if there's a sound or not.

So how is it and we've just got about a minute and a half before the break, then we'll have some further time to get into it. But how is it that you say it all boils down to philosophy?

Well, people make claims about things you can know and what you can't know. I mean, you can only know what science proves.

Well, I don't believe that, but that's a question in a field of philosophy called epistemology. People claim I believe the soul is real and consciousness is real, and we have. Will and there's life after death. Philosophy helps me provide clarification and answers to that question. Philosophy studies systems of determining.

Right and wrong action, and so on. And you can develop these in such a way that they're consistent with scripture. And so philosophy deals with fundamental questions. What should the state look like? For whom should I vote?

Is there one party closer to the what the state ought to be than another? I mean, these are all interesting questions. Got it. And friends, J.P. Morland, Professor Morland, has been equipping students at Calpa T Luxor 700 by Oliver 25 years.

And somewhere along the way, you've either run into his writings or run into someone who's been influenced by his writings. We'll be right back. Age the world O God of burning, cleansing flames. Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey friends, to find out more about the Apologetics Conference coming in the middle of October this year. Write your Charlotte, North Carolina.

Go to conference.scs.edu. conference.ses.edu to find out more. My guest JP Moreland will be speaking. JP, do you know your topics for the conference?

Well, they're still kicking a few of them around, but I am going to be on a panel That's going to talk about the relationship between Christianity and science.

So that should be a pretty lively fun Exchange. Me, ex excellent. Oh, let me ask this. Yes.

Well, your influence, the influence of Professor William Lane Craig, It's had an impact on philosophy departments or even Raising up a connection between the gospel, biblical worldview, and philosophy. Can you give us a little bit of a picture of some of the shift that's taken place? Because we're not only hearing the bad news and the apostasy of campuses and the liberalism and the progressivism, but there's some positive things as well.

Well, first of all, let me just acknowledge, Michael, you're right. Secular campuses today, and unfortunately, a lot of Christian campuses. are just insane. The stuff that's happening there would nobody would believe it if they were told it. Everything's upside down.

But the good news is that for about the last I'm going to say 30 years, there has been a growing kind of awakening in the field of philosophy. And as a result of that, You can't Go to a top five. thirty or forty school in the United States and do a PhD in philosophy. without a good number of the grad students there being Christians. And you can't pick up a journal in the field of philosophy anymore without there being an article in that journal.

by a Bible-believing Christian.

Now, they wouldn't all consider themselves evangelicals, but they'd still. to the resurrection of Jesus and and the God's a Trinity and so on. And so what this has done is it's it's provided cover For Christian groups like Crew and the Navigators, they know they've got somebody on their side on the faculty. that if they get picked on, they can go to that person and get help. And it's also created an atmosphere where younger people are being drawn into the field.

And so Believe it or not, Michael, I think our best days are still ahead of us. But it's really made people have to take seriously. the questions about life after death and God and the resurrection, they can't just poo poo that anymore. They have to they have to it's become increasingly anti intellectual not to treat these topics seriously. Fascinating.

When you mention campuses becoming insane, it really is that. It is intellectual and moral insanity. I was speaking to young people this past Wednesday night. And there was a student there from USC. She's in in a Uh video design.

Department, and she said it's ninety percent extremely liberal. But she said every class. Every professor, every student. at the beginning of every class. they have to give their PGPs, their preferred gender pronouns.

Are you kidding? Throughout the whole school. Yeah, every single class she has in the department. And of course, it goes. On and on and on.

And You know, what's there was a fellow in Seattle, a short white guy who was going interviewing students at the university there. And he was asking them if he identified as a woman, is he a woman? They accepted that. If he identified as a child, is he a child? They accepted that.

If he identified as Chinese, is he Chinese? They accepted that. If he identified as six foot five, is he? They said, No, you're not. At a certain point, the brain kicked in again.

But I see though this As crazy as it is, as positive in that this thing cannot work. In other words, when you completely throw out reality, perception becomes reality. When you when you More in a biblical worldview, et cetera, you're gonna, the things that are self-destruct, no?

Well, you put your finger right on it. You cannot have a university ultimately without a significant number. of Christians on that faculty that are presenting a biblical worldview for two reasons. Number one, universities will become pluralversities because if you don't believe in a single rational God that stands behind every field of study at the university, Then you have no reason to think that they should have that art should have anything to do with philosophy or psychology. But if you believe in a rational God, you would believe that all these different disciplines come from the same mind and they should be integrated with one another.

But now we have pluralversities where eighteen year olds get to make up their own curriculum when they become English literature majors. The second thing is you actually have no purpose. I mean, what's the purpose of the university?

Well, you'd have to answer that in light of what the purpose of life is. But I mean, if there's no God, there really is no purpose in life. And so you get these nonsense. There are two kinds of universities today. I heard a lecture at Duke University.

By a I can't remember his name. This guy's a real all-star, but he said they're truth universities. and their social justice universities. And social justice universities literally make the objective of the school. to correct the wrongs and ills and to restore social justice.

And those universities have something like twelve to thirteen to one liberal to conservative faculty. They don't want diversity of conversation. They run conservatives off campus and won't listen to them. Why? Because they don't care about their students learning the truth.

They want their students to be A certain kind of revolutionary truth universities, and he named some. They have five to one liberal to conservative, but that's a lot better. And they welcome a diversity of thought. They want conservatives to come to campus and lecture because they figure their students can't arrive at what's true if they don't hear arguments from both sides. How refreshing is that?

But that's not happening anymore, is it? It's just that these are indoctrination centers for liberal secularism. Right, and for example, rather than learning English literature and reading William Shakespeare, you can't because that's white heterosexist privilege.

So everything gets filtered through that lens, and what you end up finding out. Shades of animal farm is that this has nothing to do with progressivism. It has to do with one class now taking over and oppressing others. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it's all about power. Because if you don't have authority, that means something that intrinsically ought to be obeyed. then you've got nothing but power and who can impose their views on others. completely not unchristian idea, but it's all you've got if you're a secularist. Yeah.

And you can't even get alone and pray for God to change hearts or just be convinced that as you put out the truth, it'll make a difference. You have to force people to conform. And that leads me to one last question. One of the books that we have used at times in classes at our ministry school is your Kingdom Triangle book. You cover the Christian Mind, Renovate the Soul, Restore the Spirit's Power.

So, here as a Christian intellectual, as a thinking man, as someone used to sorting things out, epistemology and empirical evidence and all that, you have become a committed believer in the gifts and power of the Spirit being for today. If you could give us the two-minute version of your journey, that would be awesome.

Well, it just seems like that that's what the scriptures teach, that the kingdom is here. And we ought to be seeing demonic deliverance. We ought to be able to pray for the sick and see some healed. And I have credible evidence that this is happening. I've prayed for people.

and and seeing people healed.

Now it it happens 10% of the time or something like that. But I have seen too many of these things. I cannot not believe in them. And so We just do the best we can. We never tell somebody that they're going to get it.

We just pray we're going to bless them. But we asked for God to heal, and He still does. And I've seen the supernatural, I've received words of knowledge from people that were. There were two specific to be made up. I have friends who've delivered demons from people and the demon said things to the person that no human being could know and he was accurate.

You just there's no way to explain these things. And so I just believe that the The supernatural kingdom makes a lot of sense. There's evidence for it, and it's part of the Christian life. Yeah, so scripture first. We see what the word says, absolutely, then our experience confirms what's written in scripture.

I found many people become cessationists. Despite the testimony of the word, because they had bad experience. And I tell them, I think you're right. Start with the word, right? I think you're absolutely right.

And that will also help rule out some of the goofiness that's often associated with the supernatural. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, sir, we so appreciate your work. I've never met. I don't think we've met face to face, so hopefully we have to meet here at this conference. Yeah, I will kiss you down and make sure we spend time together, at least with a handshake.

So, thanks for coming on. Keep up the great work. You too, my friend, and God bless. Bye-bye. God bless.

Thanks. Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey friends, I've got a special announcement to make to you. If you live in greater Charlotte, North Carolina, or even within a few hours. Mark this on your calendar.

Saturday, August 2nd. Sit. Saturday. August Yeah. This is going to be a special afternoon equipping session.

on the key moral cultural issues of the day. Dr. Frank Turek will be speaking. I'll be speaking and then. We're going to be having a friendly debate.

with two local ministers. As to the question, do love and tolerance require acceptance? They are both Either actively embracing of LGBT activism or saying that the scriptures embrace committed homosexual couples.

So we're going to have a friendly dialogue. I am so pleased that these two pastors, these two ministers have said that they would gladly do it. They seem to be well educated, and I'm sure they'll be well spoken.

So it'll be Frank Turek and I in dialogue debate with them about these issues. Saturday August Death. Dylan, we've got this on my calendar on our agenda.

Okay, just to find out um time details or how to connect Go to askdrown.org, A-S-K-B-R-Brown. Board. All right. Go there, and when you're there, you'll see the details for Saturday, August. Yeah.

Okay. Let me come back to the subject of defense of the faith. Maybe you're a young person and you're going to be going off into college, all right? maybe you're fairly new in the States. and your friends at work really ridicule your position.

Maybe you get bombarded on social media. What you believe is so unscientific, what you believe is so primitive, what you believe is so backward, what you believe is so wrong. How could you be so stupid? Please understand. That the gospel will always be foolishness to those who don't know the Lord.

In other words, no matter how brilliant our presentation, The idea that God sent his Son into the world to die for our sins, that the Savior of the world is a crucified Jew. that salvation is only found in him. That these kinds of things will be preposterous to someone who doesn't know the Lord. And no matter how intellectual you are. No matter how educated you are.

No matter how astute you are in presenting your argument, there will still be people that mock. But understand. That we have solid reasons to believe what we believe. that when you get challenged by your professor young person going off to college or going back to school. when you're a professor who knows so much more than you know, your professor gets up there and he or she starts Railing on your beliefs and mocking these fundamentalist Christians and mocking the idea of anyone taking the Bible seriously.

Please understand. That as much as they may mock and as much as they may Denigrate your faith. for solid answers.

solid responsive. You may not know them. Because you may not have the educational background to be able to spar with the professor. That's where you're a student and the professor's the professor. Maybe you're new in the faith.

And and you've got folks at at work. That that have been Maybe studying the issues for ten, twenty years, and they've got this mount of evidence against what you believe. Just understand. There are plenty of people just as smart as them. just as educated as them?

maybe just as brilliant as them? and they can refute every one of the arguments these people are bringing. Seriously. You know, when I came to faith as a Jewish believer in Jesus at the age of 16, heavy drug user in 1971. I didn't I was bombarded with objections from learned rabbis.

What did I know? I barely knew any Hebrew. I barely knew the alphabet. And here they were studying Hebrew since they were children. And I'd raise my argument that I got from reading the Bible myself, or maybe I heard from my pastor or something.

or a friend came up with it. And they go to their books, you know, written by great learned rabbis in centuries past, and they'd smash what I was saying. But what I found out was, as I kept studying and digging, that we had answers for all the objections. And That a fair study of Scripture would lead us to faith in Jesus Yeshua as the Messiah of Israel. In the same way, I'm not a philosopher.

But you have men like J.P. Moreland and William Lane Craig, and they are brilliant. They are scholars, they are respected philosophers. And they can debate. You're a philosophy professor who mocks the idea of a God or mocks the idea of the Bible being God's word.

And they will have Sound philosophical answers. Or or there Scientists and mathematicians like John Lennox, and on and on the list goes. brilliant, learned people. And they can refute the arguments, not just by saying, I believe this. But saying logic is against you.

Science is against you. Philosophy is against you. whatever it is, they have answers. I want to encourage you, never. Feel Intimidated.

Never feel intimidated because you are on the side of truth. Never feel intimidated because you're not believing a myth. You say you have All I know is Jesus changed my life.

Well, that's what you need to know, that's the fundamental. That's the thing that no one can really steal from you. Leonard Ravenhill always used to say that a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument. You remember John 9, the man born blind and healed, when the religious leaders would say, Well, he must be a kind of sinner, some kind of sinner, because he healed you on the Sabbath. He says, Sinner or no?

I don't know. I'm not a theologian. But this much I can tell you, I was blind, but now I see. That's the story of many of us. But friends, it doesn't end there.

It doesn't end there. It is not just a matter of. I was blind, but now I see. It's a matter of I was blind. But now I see, and now I've been walking with God for 10 or 20, 30 years, and I've seen His faithfulness, I've seen His hand.

Over this time. Or I was blind.

Now I see. And I'm also thinking and studying and learning. And the more I study and think and learn, the more I see we have answers for the objections. Even the big, big issues of science, the origin of the universe. No answer.

No solid scientific answer. We have one. The origin of life. Hmm. No scientific answer for that.

We have one. And God is the one who created the truths that are behind science. It's not that God's a hefty science, but that all scientific truth is what He created. And then when you get down to the tiniest microbes and things you can't even barely see under a microscope, and then you find out it's like a factory with all where'd that come from, DNA, where'd that come from? We know where it came from.

God designed it meticulously. The world doesn't have answers. We do. But most of all, we have answers about eternal life and knowing God. Never.

Feel intimidated. You have a message that the world around you needs. Hey, friends. Remember to go to askdrbrown.org, askkadrbrown.org. We've got a bunch of new articles and videos up there just for you.

Don't miss them. Change the world. A Christian mother of the world. 10 is outraged with the latest issue of Teeing Vogue. You should be outraged too.

It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, Range, for joining us on the line of fire. This is Michael Brown coming your way from Hamilton, Ontario. In a moment.

I'm going to be joined by a mother of 10, Elizabeth Johnson, better known as the activist mommy. We're going to talk about something very disturbing, but something that you can act on.

something about which you can do something. eight six six three four eight seven eight eight four. Let me just take a minute and step back. and give a broader perspective. All right?

We are in this world. We understand that. We are in a fallen world where sinners sin. I'm not surprised that sinners sin. I'm not surprised that the world is crazed with sex and crazed with drugs and crazed with alcohol and crazed with materialism and crazed with greed and crazed with all the things that consume us.

And that the world is addicted to sports and entertainment and on and on. I I'm not not surprised because we're in a fallen world. And in the midst of all these things, there can be good. And in the midst of the human race, there is much that is positive because we're created in the image of God, but we're fallen.

So none of that surprises me.

So I'm grieved in this fallen world. I was watching footage from a Concert years ago. I just wanted to watch for a couple of minutes to kind of take in what people were feeling. It was Elton John. Singing Rocket Man at Wembley Stadium, and this massive crowd there, and they're getting into his music.

And although he himself is not a godly man, we understand that. Uh he's he's very gifted musically and He's written some beautiful songs and And powerful. powerful music for the lyrics that others have written for him. Anyway, I'm watching and looking out at this massive crowd and thinking: is this people? Is this sheep?

Just a flock. And thinking about the longing that's in human hearts and People longing for fulfillment and longing for purpose. I just had a burden for the people and a burden for Elton John. I don't mean that, you know, Rocket Man, whatever. It's not some wicked song with wicked I'm just saying watching that, I was reminded of this world that's out there.

people seeking, people in need, people hurting. My heart was going out to them. That's how I live my life. But there are things that happen That are extreme. That they slap you in the face.

They are so ugly. They are so much. In an aggressive posture against your values or beliefs. They're coming after kids or grandkids with a certain mindset or agenda. The thing is so grievous.

That It gets your attention. And that's what happened. with this recent issue of team vogue. And you have to understand Because I'm in the role that I'm in as a voice, as a spokesman by God's grace, on radio and in writing. and online and on T V.

and preaching and so on.

So I've I've got many outlets to be a voice. Day and night. People send me things. I'm talking about friends. I'm talking about staff.

I'm talking about people don't even know me. They'll send me things. And have you seen this? What about this? What about this?

And again, it's these tipping point things that stir us and say, okay, here's something where I have to act. There's trash, there's junk all the time, but here's something that's so grievous that I have to act, I have to take a stand.

So, we're going to take that up with a mother of 10, committed Christian woman. We come back and ask the question: okay, what should Should we do? What can we do about these things? We will be right back today on the line of five. Shake the nation.

Change the world. Change the world. Oh, God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You may know her as the activist Mommy. She is a mother of 10 Elizabeth Johnson. You can find her at Facebook, Twitter.

Twitter. as the activist mommy. She's passionate about protecting families. And she's launched a grassroots campaign called Operation Politen Vogue.

So Elizabeth, great to have you back on the line of fire. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you, doctor Brown. It's always so good to speak with you.

Well, there's a lot of junk happening in society all around us. We can't police everything. We can't object to everything. Otherwise, that's all we'd be doing. But there's certain things that just cross a line And if we don't speak up, I feel we're being negligent What is it about this team vogue?

recent issue that for you as a mother of ten has crossed the line. I already knew that Teen Vogue, Dr. Brown, was not an upright publication. My children would certainly never read. Teen Vogue.

But when some parents sent me this article that they had written, published. encouraging sodomy amongst their audience which is targeted to twelve to seventeen year olds. That is the target audience for teen vogue. When they were encouraging sodomy amongst young people, minors, I was live it as a mother. I knew that I had to do something.

I want you to think about this. If Gigi Engel, the author of that article, Had texted. the words that were in that article to a twelve-year-old. She could be prosecuted. Yet she can publish that and Team Bo can publish that.

teenagers worldwide to see. And no one even blinks an eye. And I said, No way I'm gonna make somebody blink an eye. I'm gonna make Gigi Engle and Teen Vogue regret the day that they ever published this article.

So what did you do to take your stand?

So I made a video. Um I went and got a Team Vogue magazine and made a video. Uh in which I burned the pages of this Kingboard magazine. It basically say, Parents teenagers, this is garbage. And we have got to go to our local libraries and our stores.

and our gas stations, and we've got to see if they carry teen vogue. And if they do, we need to care enough about the youth of America to say no more carrying teen vogue, pull teen vogue. From the shell. We cannot continue as Christians. Technology Go to church, be be content.

to go to church on Sundays and sit in our pews Wow, this over sexualization and perverted perversion of our young people continues to happen and us just sits silently by. No, I watched the video. I sent it to others to watch. What kind of response have you gotten to the video? It's been overwhelming.

It's gotten over eight million views so far. Very large conservative and Christian pages have shared it, such as Conservative Daily, Breitbart, CBN News just had me on live. site and uh interview me and they are um are uh About to publish an article on it as well. It's gained a lot of traction. I've gotten overwhelming support.

And overwhelming hate, of course. On Twitter I am being um you know attacked in the most uh in in the vilest of of terms. Um but I'm gonna read you something, Dr. Brown, if you'll let me real quick uh from a file Okay, he went into his program. This is what he said.

I went into my local Kroger, grabbed all nine magazines on the rack. I walked right up to the manager and asked him if he would allow his kids to read this. No joke, folks. He literally ripped them up and told his loss prevention team to write them off as stolen. I'm now shopping there for the rest of my life.

Yeah. I love that. Daddy Bear rose up, and I believe that that's the kind of righteous indignation. And love for our young people that we have to recapture if we are going to push back against. the sexualization that these progressive empower are clearly trying purposefully to foist upon our children.

Right. What we are saying is please stop. Sexualizing our children, and please stop using our children as pawns in the culture wars. And Elizabeth. First, we're speaking as Christians, so there's only so much we're going to say.

as as believers, even if we were all sitting at it. Table together privately, we'd only say so much. all the more on radio. And we've got little kids that listen to the show. They'll come up and tell me they listen regularly.

So we have to be careful in what we say. But I I saw a link to the article before I saw your video actually. I was mortified. I couldn't. I read part of it.

I was completely mortified. This is a 62-year-old adult. I was mortified by what was being promoted, by what was being said. You're talking about a part of the body that God made as a disposal system. And they're like, oh yeah, five, try this out.

I mean, it's the vulgarity of it, the the aggressive nature of it, it's absolutely mind-boggling. I could not imagine any store manager who even has the slightest concern for the clientele saying that's okay for teenagers walking into that I'm fine with them getting that magazine. Tell our listeners how outrageous it is within the confines that we can only say so much. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness, you're right.

You can't even you can't even utter the word. It is so outrageous and so vile and so morally degenerate. And you're not the only one. Parent. Everywhere.

That's why this video, I've had another video reach 12 million. But this video went just like double the speed of that one. Parents were so outraged that this was being foisted upon minors, and this isn't even legal. I want you to understand that: that the law forbids, federal law forbids knowingly transferring obscene material. Um, two children under the age of sixteen.

And if you're convicted of this, you can face Fines and imprisonment up to ten years. The law is normally on the side of decency, as you know, Dr. Brown. The problem is getting. Leaders and law enforcement to do the right thing, the courageous thing, to not be cowards, and to enforce.

The good was. The laws are fine, that's not the problem. The problem is. We have cowards in places of power who don't want to get attacked by the LGBT, you know, silencing bullies who want to marginalize us as Christians and stamp out our voice. They're not willing.

to be uh put in that place. And so they just sit back. and allow our kids to be pimped and prostituted without doing anything about it. I'm done with it. Enough is enough.

Parents are saying enough is enough. These people need to be prosecuted. These publications need to be pulled from the shelves. Yes.

And again, we're not talking about if someone walks into an adult bookstore and decides, a thirty year old man, that he wants to buy pornography. I wish it wasn't there and I wish he didn't have an interest in it, but You know, he can do that. There's not a law preventing him from doing that. If he, whatever he does with his part, They're in his house. You know, that Whatever, if he's not breaking the law that's between him and God, we're not trying.

To enforce morality on the nation, we're saying there are lines that we have in place for good reason. And when it comes to influencing minors and obscene material being presented to minors, especially telling them, try this out. What about health risks? What about all the other issues that are related to this? No, no, experiment.

You need to try this out. That's what it's telling them. Look, I know, as a teenager, I got into drugs because the rock stars did drugs, and others said, You need to try this out. And then some people, you. This stuff has influence.

Kids are going to read it, and now they're going to try this out. And if the blood of those kids, the results of this, the problems, sexually transmitted diseases, others could be put on Teen Vogue's head, it would be absolutely shocking. Shocking. What can you tell us about the author of the article? Oh, G.

G. Engle. Um is simply a journalist. Dr. Brown.

She is not. A uh certified a trained sex educator She's a journalist. She's not a medical doctor. She's simply. A liberal The writer.

And she is giving twelve-year-olds extremely dangerous. advice about a very dangerous sexual practice And which People who engage in this. They get sexually transmitted diseases, as you've mentioned, loss of vowel control. I mean, I could list twenty things right now. That are terrible that happen to people who engage in this behavior on a frequent basis.

And I want you to know when Gigi Engl posted this, published this article, and with team votes, Ultimately, get rest on the back of team boats. Hang on right there. We'll pick this up on the other side of the brake. Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us. On the line of fire, your voice, the moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

I'm speaking with Elizabeth Johnson, better known as the activist mommy. Elizabeth, if Want to watch your video about Teen Vogue? It's a short video. It's crystal clear in terms of what you're saying and what you're asking folks to do. What's the best place to go watch it?

Yes, the video is only two minutes long, and if you just go to my Facebook page, The Activist Mommy. It is pinned to the top of the page. It will be the first post you see there. Click share on that and type in the hashtag. Pull teen vogue, and the hashtag has been trending.

So that is great news that the word is really getting out. Um the The author of the article, G.G. Engel, and the digital. Um Director, uh editorial director, Philip Cardy. Have felt such heat coming down on them that they have actually been responding on Twitter.

You'll see those responses on my page as well. They're quite. quite uh tumorous. And so they are feeling the heat, and we are about to start a campaign. pressuring the advertisers to removed Their funding from Team Vogue.

And again, keep watching on my page, The Activist Mommy, so if you can help us. Begin to send messages and apply pressure to the advertisers. Hey, this is what the left does all the time, right? When they want to shut one of us down, they do it to you, Dr. Brown.

When they want to shut one of us down, they call the people where you're going to go speak, except the speaking engagement. They find your advertisers and they call them and they begin to lie about you. We're not lying. We're just bringing forth the facts. And we're saying, here you have it.

Is this what you actually want to support? Most people would say, no, this crosses the line. You do not peddle. Yeah. the miners.

Right, and especially when you're peddling aberrant and especially dangerous sex. miners Impressionable kids, I mean, the lack of responsibility in this is really mind-boggling. And that's why if someone says, look, No one's making your Kids read this. No one's making your kids.

Well, you're not, this is not a selfish thing. You're not thinking about your kids. We're thinking about other kids. And then again, if we don't say something, the point will come when people will tell you what you can and can't teach your own kids in Christian school or what you can and can't teach your own kids in homeschool. I'm in Canada.

Now, and some of the laws here are shocking to see how far things have gone.

So, we speak up for the sake of others, but ultimately, these things do impact us. And then, look, friends. The gal who wrote the article for Team Volks, she needs the Lord. We need to pray for these folks, but you pray for their salvation while standing against.

Something that is absolutely wrong and evil. And really, I can't imagine how Team Vogue could defend this. What are they saying in defense of their column? Team Vogue itself is being silent on the issue. Uh Philip Cardi, listen to this.

He's the digital Editorial director. of a magazine that is Targeted to young girls, and he's a male. bottomite. He is a homosexual. Why is a male sodomite?

To be digital. Editorial director of Team Folk magazine, but he is, and he has tweeted a long list of tweets. about how he engaged in sodomy as a high schooler And he had health problems because of it. And he wishes he had had an article like the Team Vogue article when he was in high school engaging in sodomy.

Now, interestingly enough, and this is where we got cut off at the break round. When Gigi Engle first posted the article, it had no information in it. about faith. The most dangerous type of sexual activity That you can engage in, pretty much. And she has no warnings in there about safe sex.

I thought the left was all about teaching safe sex to kids, right?

Well, when they came under Intense scrutiny, not only from those of us on the right, but even from those on the left.

Okay, this is not just a Christian issue. When they came under scrutiny, they edited the article, and you can see at the bottom of the article right now, if you go and click on it, that it says. We have added instruction here on safe sex, something to that effect.

So the recklessness with which this was published. just shows how little Team Bo cares. About It's consumers. Yes.

And again, the envelope will keep getting pushed further and further if no one stands up. And there are plenty of non Christians who love their kids who will be offended by this. plenty of of people of all different faiths. uh who who love their kids and will be offended by this and I'm sure there are plenty of young people that that They'll see things, and it's not what they desire either, but you get pushed, you know, peer pressure, and all of this.

So what you're asking folks to do on the video then is to go to any store. Your local grocery store or Walmart or drugstore, whatever it is that has magazines. See if they have team vogue, and then take, ask for the manager politely. And you want to open up to this page? Is that what you want to do?

Ask them. Is this what you want in your store? And are you asking folks to just not carry this issue or to tell Teen Vogue we're through with you? Oh, we are asking them to pull them permanently. And let me explain.

That is only one of a long list of abuses that have taken place with Keen Vogue. They printed an article in May, Dr. Brown, that said toddlers. Even toddlers understand consent. You and I both know where they are headed with that.

They printed a video and an article that said, toddlers understand consent. No, according to the law, you cannot consent. Until you're at least sixteen years old, in some states, eighteen years old. according to the legal definition of sexual consent. This is outrageous, Dr.

Brown. And then in my video, you'll see. Um, other issues in in in the mag in the uh in teen vogue. Where they're teaching people to th there's pictures of of homosexuals kissing and and I'm not gonna go into it all 'cause I don't want young people in your audience audience hearing it. Very inappropriate, very hypersexual.

Um, this you know, you've gotta wonder What the motive. Is here, and it must just be. the more controversial, the more sensational and the more sexual the more they can sell. I mean, as the body price, The Bible says in Ephesians 5:11, have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. But it doesn't stop there, does it?

What does it say to do? But reprogram. Expose the unfruitful works. Of darkness. It doesn't say expose the unfruitful works of darkness if it is affecting your child in your home right now.

No, it says expose them. And that is what God has called me to do. And I pray that I am inspiring others. Let's expose this darkness. The left.

Let's push back against this darkness.

So, my kids and grandkids. Can live in a country where they have freedom of speech, where they have religious liberty, where it's not hate speech, to quote what the Bible says about sodomy. Yeah, and with that, Elizabeth, we are out of time. Thank you for what you do, friends. Go to The Activist Mommy on Facebook, watch the video.

Take action and pray for repentant. Salvation is for the editors and writers of Team Pole. Keep up the courageous work. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us today on the line of fire.

866-348-7884 is the number to call. Hey, I've got a special announcement. Everyone listening to me in Greater Charlotte, North Carolina.

So if you're within an hour or two. We're even three of Charlotte, North Carolina. Join me at Southern Evangelical Seminary. Saturday. August 5th.

Together with Dr. Frank Turek. We're going to be giving a biblical worldview how to address key moral and cultural issues of today. And So pleased to announce that two local ministers Yeah, that's most of North Carolina. Come on.

And South Carolina, surrounding states, that's it, Johnny. Bring them on. Uh Dr. Frank Turik and I will be having a friendly debate with two local ministers on the question. Does love and acceptance requi excuse me, does love and tolerance require acceptance and affirmation?

In other words, can we love people, be accepting of people without affirming who they are or affirming what they do or affirming how they live, what they believe?

So it's going to be a great, great day. We'll focus, of course, on the issue of homosexuality and the church. These ministers will be debating us, having a different position.

So, to find out more about this, all right, it's very cheap to register for the day. Go to my website, askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. And then, while you're there, just look for the itinerary, and you'll find that for August. Fifth. I am in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

Tonight and tomorrow night. If you happen to live near here, come by to the meeting tonight. I'll be speaking tonight and tomorrow. I don't know what I'm speaking on yet. Be praying after the radio show to get God's mind for tonight.

I I want to address an article. That was sent to me. Nancy sent it to me over the weekend, and we were chatting about it. And I want to address it on the air in a moment. And it has to do with the question of Men Stumbling over the way women dress.

Yes, certainly an issue comes up, especially during summer. How much is the man's responsibility? How much is the woman's responsibility? We're going to talk about that in a moment. on the other side of the break.

But let me just share something with you about How I decide. What's it talk about on the radio? How I decide what to write. About.

Now sometimes we have special guests on. And it's because someone wrote a book, and we want to share the contents of that book with you. or someone's in the news for a particular reason, so we bring them on. But when we are setting the agenda on our own, If there's major news happening that affects us, And It's worth talking about on the air, then we'll certainly talk about it because this is the world we live in. Right.

And I want to do my best to give you a biblical worldview or a biblical response or godly reflections or spiritual reflections or how we relate to the situation. Obviously, during the political season, When there's so much focus on this and so much division in the nation over it, we'll talk about those issues and try to bring a kingdom perspective. But aside from things that are happening in the world and news around us that call for a response, I I am writing and addressing what I have on my heart. Things that burden me. Things that concern me.

things that others are bringing to me and saying, can you please address this? Can you please talk about this? And we're dealing with this in our family. We're dealing with this in our school. We're dealing with this in our community.

We're dealing with this in our church. And therefore, things that I believe are important, I do my best to share in a constructive way. That's why I write. I feel burdened to write. It's not like I'm thinking, what's the latest controversial issue I can address?

No, you know, I'm actually happy to live for 24 hours without controversy. That would be amazing if that happened, but that's not the norm for me. All right, we'll be right back. Shake the name. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Uh Thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire. This is Michael Brown Eat Tick.

Three, four, Yeah. All right. I I want to address an issue There was an article that Nancy spotted on Facebook. Folks were talking about it.

Some of the Christian ladies were talking about it. And I thought it's worth. Addressing on the air. The article is called I Don't Accommodate Uncontrolled Men. And it's a Christian mother, and she's writing and and saying, look, she's raising her son, she's raising her boys in such a way That they're not going to look at women just in a lustful way.

If a woman's beautiful, they'll be able to appreciate that, but without. everything can be lustful. And she's had it with guys saying, look, the way you dress causes me to stumble and so on. And there are other ladies who are joining and saying, yeah, that's all we ever hear and it's not right. We're not even at home we can't even be at home in our own skin and so on.

I understand. that there can be pressure put on women.

So that if God gave you curves, you're a nice figure, you're well endowed, that you think you can't even leave the house because someone's gonna say you're causing them to stumble. And I was talking to a young woman that graduated from our ministry school years ago, and she's an attractive woman. And she said, Yeah, when she was in school, you know, if you get written up, you know, your clothes aren't modest enough, or it's causing guys to stumble. And she said it was really hurtful. I understand that.

I can understand that it gives me an overreaction, or we can go too far and things like that. And look, as a male, I'm responsible before God, right? I'm responsible for my life, for my eyes, for my thoughts, for my actions. We're all responsible before God. We understand that.

And I know, look, in the Muslim world, you have women covered head to toe. There are even some cultures where they only have one eye where the woman can see out, because you don't only want to see two eyes.

So I understand things can go to an extreme. And I know, ladies, some of you could wear a burlap sack, and guys would lust after that.

So, you are not responsible in that regard for someone's holiness, okay? But I had a real problem. With a number of things in the article, and Nancy did as a wife and mother and woman herself.

So let me share some of the things that concern me. Number one, the idea That men are just socialized to think lustful thoughts after women. Nobody socialized me. When I was a boy and I started noticing girls, nobody was socializing me to do it. My dad didn't teach me that, you know, to look at women a certain way.

I started to notice girls a certain way. As a boy, I started to have lustful thoughts towards other girls. And we would tell our daughters as they were growing up the way guys can be and the way they can check girls out and look and what they're trying to see and so on and so forth. And they're like, no, I said, that's how guys are like that. There is a reason that magazines at the checkout rack, they have gals in bikinis more than guys in briefs, right?

Because guys are more visually oriented. And even within a marriage, guys tend to be more sexually interested, just generally speaking. Yeah, women get into sex and women can fall into pornography and all this and women can listen with their eyes. But the way we're wired, we are wired differently. It is just a simple fact of nature.

Don't think people are being socialized.

So my husband doesn't have this problem.

Well, if he doesn't, more power to tune. But maybe he's just not telling you if he does, okay? Because it's the norm with virtually every guy I've met for decades around the world. They're going to notice certain things, relate to certain things a certain way.

So don't pass it off as being socialized. And I don't believe, I don't care how wonderfully you raise your kids. I don't believe that a fourteen, fifteen year old boy Is going to see some gal in a bikini and notice her just the way he'll notice a rainbow. Isn't that beautiful? I don't believe that.

And there is going to be sexual attraction and desire. That's just part of the way we're wired. What we have to do is control things. Yes, walk in self-control, but how about this? Aren't we called to walk in love?

What about love toward your brother or sister? What about that? What about the principle of Romans 14 that if eating meat causes my brother to stumble, then I won't eat meat? I'll do without. That's what I see lacking in some of the attitudes.

Because we're thinking about me, me, me. That's the world's way of thinking. As a believer, there are lots of things I don't do for the sake of others. I I was going to post something the other day, just a silly comment on Twitter, and I thought, you know, If I post that, some people will read it. They just love reading truth from me and serious things from me.

And if I post that, I may be just over the table joking around. It was a silly political comment. But to someone else, it would seem lower and demeaning for me. I thought, you know, for the sake of others, I just won't do it. It's a minor, tiny thing, okay?

But there are plenty of things I wouldn't do so as to stumble. No, I can't prevent anything. What if someone stumbles because I'm on the radio? What if someone stumbles because you smile?

Okay, you can only go so far. But to the extent that I'm Then think about others. Are you thinking about others? Are you walking in love? That's a major question to ask.

And doesn't Jesus say very plainly, chapters like Matthew 18 and elsewhere, That those who caused little ones to stumble, better that a millstone were hung around their neck and they were cast in the depths of the sea. In other words, if I knowingly put a stumbling block, before one of these quote little ones. Before a child of God or just a child in general, God looks at that with real. Severity.

So if you know, for example. That God has blessed you. With a nice figure. You're well endowed, okay, to whom much is given, much is required. maybe you can't wear that super tight shirt the way some other gal does because it makes you look a certain way, and you'll notice guys turning their heads and looking.

But why do people wear certain outfits? Aren't there certain things you do to draw attention to certain parts of your body? Is that what you want to do? Aren't there warnings throughout Scripture telling men don't lust after women? Aren't there doesn't Proverbs the fifth chapter talk about a a man should be satisfied with his wife's breast and speaks of that, right?

Because God made us certain ways. And can I ask you a question? Aren't clothes meant to cover us? The purpose of clothes is to cover things up. Uh do we walk around in our underwear?

No.

So, is that different than just stripping down into bathing suits around each other because we're at Reddit Beach? I mean, does it make it any less? Immodest, just questions to ask. And why is it in Genesis the second chapter, Genesis chapter two, that Adam and Eve, just the two of them? They're naked, but now that they have certain awareness after the fall, they're ashamed, and God covers them.

They try to cover themselves, and then God gives them more adequate covering. There is some sense. Of decorum or propriety. I'm not talking about a married couple alone between them and God. I'm talking about just the possibility that others, God, others could see.

They want it to come. cover up, they had that sense. It's something God put Within us.

So when Peter and Paul both talk about modesty, It's not just talking about the cost of things. Don't just wear expensive jewelry or make a hairdo or something. Modesty is also talking about modesty as as we understand it. walking in modesty.

So look. No one's trying to put you in bondage. Let's say this: some people are trying to put you in bondage, and I'm sorry for that. All right, and there might be certain laws or customs or ways that some of us have done things that put certain people down or made you feel squeezed in. I'm sorry for that.

But Walk in love with your brothers and sisters. Look, when I go to a church service to preach, or I go there to worship, I'm not going there to check people out the way they're dressed.

Okay, I'm going there to worship. But if some gal, I'm talking about a believer, not some unbeliever that walks in there, doesn't know anything. But if some gal comes walking in and she's standing a certain way, moving a certain way, she's revealing parts of her body, I'm trying to, I do not want to look at that. I want to look at the Lord. That's a stunning butt.

That's not right. That's not fair. It's not conscientious of others. And if we walk in love, okay, so fine. I got to wear the sleeves a little longer here.

Okay, I can't let that button down over here.

Okay, I understand that. And again, Yes, some people want you to cover head to toe, and if you d don't do that, you're not modest. There are legalistic things that can bring people in bondage. But would you just pray? As sisters and say, hey, give me a heart of love towards my brothers because I may not be wired the same as them.

All right. And help me not to be a stumbling block, help me be a blessing. I was preaching at a church in Italy one time, northern Italy, and they kind of boasted about how free they were and how they weren't under the law. And I've never to this day been in a service where the ladies were so scantily clad. It was like and they're all complimented.

It's like this fashion show. And there was another guy there from the States visiting, and he said to me, How can you even go to church here? It's so much, he said, I've never seen this much flesh in the world. It shouldn't. Be like this.

So let's walk in love. Let's cultivate modesty. Let us Stay away from legalism and let's all take responsibility for our own lives before God. Yes, but come. Can we at least have a bit more understanding and walk in love?

All right, that's what I wanted to share with you. If you want to comment or weigh in, 866-866666666666 Three Fortruth is the number to call. And I'll yeah, I I'll I'll take some calls on Other subjects as well. We've just got a few minutes left in the broadcast. My question: have you?

Have you Downloaded the introduction and first chapter of Saving a Sick America. I'm telling you, you want to do it. It's free. Go to savingthesickamerica.com and then watch the three-minute trailer. All right, you'll want to do it, you'll be stirred, and then I'll tell you on the other side of the brain how you can pre-order the book.

We'll be right back. Haze the world O God of burning cleansing. Flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Burn up every trace of sin to bring. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire 866.

348-7884.

So go to Saving a Sick America, download for free. It says the opening chapter. You'll actually get the opening chapter and the introduction as well.

So I think you'll find it tremendously, tremendously edifying, eye-opening. During it it will get a little bit of a drink. Get your attention for sure. And then to pre-order the book. Remember to pre-order the book.

You can get a signed and numbered copy only from the first printing and only through our website.

So, if you'd like to pre-order a signed and numbered copy, do that on my website, askdrbrown.org, and we'll try to get the book to you ahead of when it gets into bookstores on September 26th.

Okay, 866-2666. 3487884. The little chat that I just did, this little rant. that I just did, we have posted it on Facebook. And I'm going to, let's see, share it on my personal page as well.

Let's see here. Let's ask folks what's their take.

So you can watch this later today at askdrbrown.org. 866. Three for truth. All right, we'll go to the phones. Sebastian in Vallejo, California.

Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hi, thank you for taking my call. I had a question on teaching in the church. what do you see as the top three teachings in the Bible that are very hard to get through to people. For example, I've been focusing on the fact that the church is not a building I was just wondering what you thought about What are some of the crucial teachings in the Bible that people people here over but they just not You just don't get it.

Uh yes.

Well, There are several different angles to answering your question, Sebastian. In other words, there are the most important teachings. that maybe people just don't grasp There are the Yeah, yeah, there are teachings that people just find difficult in general. For example, teaching people about who God is is obviously a major foundation. God being triune.

God being Father, Son and Spirit, that's very difficult for the human mind to grasp. But it's something that we teach. That's important. But I would say if you're asking about things that people have a hard time. Grasping.

Maybe we intellectually affirm it. but it's not that real to us. I would say one is that we are passing through this world and then we step into eternity. We may know it. We may talk about heaven and hell.

For the most part, I would say there's very little sense of reality to that for us. That, for the most part, the things of this world are far more real to us. I would say that your average American Christian man. It's farm work. interested in sports.

than in the world to come. that his home team losing or winning has a greater impact on his emotional life. than whether his neighbor is lost or saved. I can say that as a brother to my brothers. that maybe Christian women have much more interest in the things of this earth.

or looking a certain way or having a certain possession, Than in the world to come.

So it's important that we live in light of eternity. That, yes, this world is important. This is the one opportunity we have in this life. This is the one opportunity we have here on this planet. Yes, yes, absolutely.

very important But it becomes much more important when we realize that we are only passing through. And this is where we are now in light of eternity.

So that's one thing. I think another thing that people have a hard time really understanding is who they are in Jesus. meaning and again, there are hundreds of possible Things that we can emphasize. I'm just sharing a few that strike me in terms of. Hard for people to get.

Um We are conscious often of our shortcomings. We are conscious of our struggles. We are conscious of our Ups and downs, temptations, issues, we're not always conscious of the fact that we are children of God, that we are born anew. That we are not sinners, but we are saints. It used to be our nature to sin and to do evil.

Now we have a new nature in Jesus where it's our nature to live for God. Yes, we still fall short, we may sin, but we are no longer. Sinners. that that that is often hard for people to take hold of. Many times we are self-condemning.

Many times we we are Self-loathing. And we're so I did this wrong, I did that wrong, I failed here, I failed there. And we fail to realize. uh who we are in God. The eternal life we have in Him.

that our primary identity is being children of God. My primary identity is not someone who struggles with anger or someone who struggles with greed or someone who struggles with lust or someone who struggles with food. My primary identity is I'm a child of God. When I renew my mind to that, everything makes a great, great difference. You mentioned one that's interesting, which is our conception of church.

So, yes, we are much more conscious of going to church. Than being the church. It's a major focus of my book, Revolution in the Church. that it's much easier for us to go to a building and perform a religious Service. Once a week and to give our money there, much easier for us to do that.

Than for us to be the church twenty four-seven in the society around us. And that's why I always try to encourage changing of our vocabulary. referred to the church building as a building. Right, and refer to God's people as the church, or refer to God's people as you know, we are His people, we are His congregation, we are His messianic body. I I would say in in short, Sebastian.

And I've I've I'm out of Come here. That the things where we have to think differently than what our eyes see and our ears hear and our hands feel and touch where we have to renew our mind to spiritual realities. Be it eternity. Be it who we are in Jesus. Be it The nature of the body, nature of the church.

We often fall short there. That's because we tend to think in natural terms rather than renewing our minds And now we see in supernatural terms. Hey, I'm out of time. Thank you, sir, for the call. Remember, download your free copy of the intro and first chapter of Saving a Sick America.

Go to savingasickamerica. com to do that. And And watch the trailer while you're there. The trailer. Watch it while you're there.

And then, Go to askdrbrown.org to order, pre-order your signed and numbered copy. I'm sure once you begin reading, your heart will be thrifted. There is hope. America can return, but it's only through the gospel. All right, we'll be back with you tomorrow.

God changed the world. Hang to the world.