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Children and Trauma (Part 3) (ft. Nicole Shah)

Clearview Today / Abidan Shah
The Truth Network Radio
May 1, 2024 6:00 am

Children and Trauma (Part 3) (ft. Nicole Shah)

Clearview Today / Abidan Shah

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May 1, 2024 6:00 am

In this episode of Clearview Today, Dr. Shah talks with Nicole about how Trauma affects children and how we can be prepared to help the kids in our lives.

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That's and use that promo code T-O-D-A-Y. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. You can find us online by visiting or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. Or you can email us at contact at

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We're going to leave a couple of links in the description so you can do just that. Today is May the first. Wow. It's already May. May the first.

May firstly. May of... And you're talking about 2024, right? That's correct. That's insane.

Unless we've time traveled and I haven't noticed. You know what? You know what? This month and NSYNC have in common.

It's gonna be May. All right. So May the first, which means that our date, the word today is coming to you from Romans chapter five, verse one. Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. That is probably the best assurance you can give any human being on the face of the planet. You have peace with God. God does not have beef with you.

It's like, thank goodness. Thank God for that, because what does it say? Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. It reminds me of Hebrews, that hall of faith where he has to walk down all these people who were justified, not by the things they did, not just by their obedience, but because of their faith.

Abraham, by faith, Jacob, by faith, Moses. It just reminds me that you also are justified by your faith. Your faith in God is what gives you that peace. I love that the reality of without Jesus, we would not have peace with God, because it says we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. So yes, it is your faith, but that faith itself is a gift from God.

That faith is a gift through Christ and what he's done for us on the cross. So never lose sight of that gratitude that we should have as believers for what Christ has done for us. That's right, and we want to remind you guys, all these verses that we read at the top of every episode can also be yours.

You can use the Date the Word app. They are a partial sponsor for this show. I want to thank you for sponsoring this episode. Make sure you download it today on iPhone or Android.

It's 100% free, and every single day connects today's date with God's word, with the hope of making it more memorable for you. You know, it's a rainy, cold, dreary Wednesday morning right now. Unless you're listening to this not on the day that we recorded it, in which case it's probably fine. It's probably sunny. Well, here's the thing.

That's kind of the thing. Right now, it's rainy and it's cold. Yesterday, it was very nice.

It was like a beautiful, sunshiny day. But now it's raining, it's pouring, the old man is snoring. And tomorrow, it's going to be a blizzard.

What? Yeah, tomorrow's going to be a blizzard. And then after that, earthquakes. Hail fire is raining down.

After that, very sunny. Hail fire? It's sheets. It's little chunks of ice and rock falling from the sky, but they're also on fire. They're also on fire.

Sure. And then after that, sunny again. I'm sick of North Carolina not making up its mind. And this is something that people have known about this state for years. It's silly.

This state can't figure out what it wants to do. It's like a woman trying to get ready for a date, and it's like, What about this outfit? What about this outfit? I'm going to wear the green one. It's like, all right, fine, wear the green one. She's like, all right, you wear the green tie then. It's like, all right, I'll wear the green tie. How does this outfit make me look?

Like a natural disaster, North Carolina. Yeah, and then we're getting ready to leave, and it's like, wait, I thought you were wearing the green one. Why is that red? She was like, I didn't like the way I looked in the green. But I'm wearing the green tie.

She's like, it's okay, nobody's looking at you. I don't know, man. I just can't stand getting up and not knowing whether or not I need a jacket.

Go ahead. I'm just saying I just feel like other states don't have to deal with this. Everyone in Seattle knows it's going to be raining. Everyone in Florida knows it's going to be hot. I remember, I'm not originally from North Carolina. I grew up in South Carolina. So when I moved to the northern brethren of the two states, I remember talking to someone. I'm like, man, the weather is like kind of up and down and here and there. They're like, oh, yeah, if you don't like the weather in North Carolina, hang out for five minutes. Yeah, true, true.

And I was like, what? And the longer I've lived, we've lived here for, gosh, more than 10 years now. That's definitely true. And I don't know what it is because South Carolina is close enough to also be hit by this, but just for some reason isn't. There's rainy, but the weather's not usually a yo-yo. It's like when it's hot, it's hot. It's really just hot all the time. There's not really a cold in South Carolina. Not the part that I'm from, anyway. I guess it's funny to me because I just don't see, there's like a bubble around North Carolina where everything is just changing inside the bubble. Then I go to Virginia and it's nice.

Or it's bad, but it's one or the other. And here it's like, I will wake up, right now I'm in a t-shirt and I wore a jacket, but tomorrow I won't need the jacket. It'll be really, really, really nice. And then the next day after that it'll be cold again. It'll feel like we're back in December.

Yeah, it's like the worst of both worlds. You can't predict it. Yeah, you can't predict it. Exactly. It vacillates between two extremes. There's no balance at all.

No. I wonder how it compares to, I know the weather, the temperature is different, but I wonder what the up and down was like in India. I guess it was hot all the time. Rain and then sun and then cold and then heat and then just kind of like over and over and over again. But even that, monsoon season, it's just constant.

It's static. Yeah, it's just always storms. I wonder if the yo-yo was there like we experience here. Nicholas, I know you didn't grow up in India, but when you went there, was it just hot all the time?

Or was it, you were too young. Yeah, it's too hot. It's hot. It's really hot. Let's ask Dr. Shah when he comes in. Because I feel like in North Carolina when you walk out the door, at certain points in the year, you have to take an umbrella, snowshoes, a hoodie and shorts.

And maybe snorkel gear. There's an episode of Big Bang Theory where Leonard's talking to Raj's parents over Skype and he's like, so is it hot in India? He said, of course it is. It always is. It's India. It always is. It's India. Let's ask Dr. Shah when he comes in. If your experience with North Carolina weather has taught you anything, let us know. Yeah, please.

How do you deal with it? 582-5028. I've been living here my whole life and haven't figured it out. Or you can visit us online at We'll be back after this. Hey, what's going on, listeners? My name is Jon.

And I'm Ellie. And we just want to take a second and let you know about Dr. Shah's new book on the market right now called Can We Recover the Original Text of the New Testament. Boy, that is a long title. True, but it's a very simple message. The original text of the New Testament is not only attainable, but there are lots of different ways that scholars go about discovering it. There's a lot of people out there saying that the original text is lost forever or that it's hopeless to actually try to find it or that there's many texts of the New Testament. But alongside Dr. David Allen Black, Dr. Shah has actually compiled papers from some of the world's leading experts in textual criticism, including one written by himself on various methodologies for extracting the original text. And listen, if you're interested in textual criticism, this book is a great introduction to the field. You can pick up your copy on Amazon or you can buy it from our church website. That's We're going to leave a link in the description box so you can get your copy today. Love that. Ellie, let's hop back in.

Let's do it. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. That's right, and we're here in the Clear View Today studio with Dr. Abbadan Shah, who's a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism. I almost forgot what his degree was in. I know it's in the Bible.

It's in New Testament textual criticism along with permagest, Nicole Shah. Good to see you again. Hi, everybody. Good to see you. Welcome back.

Welcome back. The weather outside is, what's the opposite of friendly? Delightful. It's delightful.

It's writing its own. But the sunshine is so, see, now you've got to find something to rhyme with delightful. The weather outside is finally nice. We're past North Carolina's bipolar season of going back to frigid winters.

Careful. And then the next day. As soon as you say that, we're going to get mid-May and have a day in the 40s. I can't believe it, but there's a winter storm warning issued for tomorrow. This is insane.

You hate to hear it. How are you guys liking the nice weather now that we're finally in spring? I love it. Spring and fall are my favorite seasons.

I like the middle seasons, not the really frigid or the really hot. That balance, right? That balance in life.

Yeah. We're continuing the conversation that we've had the past few days. People are writing in there loving these episodes, and it's really helping people navigate and parse out and sift through the difficult situations they're facing in life. We want to continue that discussion about trauma and about stress and about how it impacts in light of that. Dr. Shaw, what is the daily encouragement you want to leave with our listeners today? Well, daily encouragement is that lean on Christ.

When you're going through pain, suffering in life, lean on Him. It does not mean that it will be easy. It's just that His yoke is easy. That's right. His burden is light.

That's right. So we think, oh, if I give it to Him, it'll all be easy. You'll still have tough days, but there's a difference.

And I don't know how much time we have to unpack that. But trust me when I say if you have Christ with you and if you're leaning on Him, life has far more meaning and purpose through that suffering. I think it's an identity thing.

You know what I mean? When we're identified with Christ, it's way easier to lean on Him and to come to Him in those times. And I think it's kind of really the heart of what we're talking about today, because I think a lot of times we've been talking about trauma and stress and all these things.

And for people who go through those traumatic experiences, I think they automatically identify themselves as just, I've gone through a traumatic experience, now I'm traumatized. Now I'm in that category. That's my identity. That's who I am.

Defining trait. Right. Yeah. Things that happen to you do not define who you are. True. So that's the one thing you got to remember is that anything that happens to you isn't anything that defines who you are. Right. And again, to clarify, yes, those things do make an impact on our lives.

What Nicole is saying here, and what I agree wholeheartedly, is that they don't have to confine you into being, now you are that label. Right. Okay? We're not, for a single moment, minimizing your suffering, your pain, or even your trauma, because there's a distinction there. But all we're saying is don't let that forever cripple you in life. Right. Labels are very dangerous. I don't care what label you live under, it's very dangerous. You know, I'm traumatized.

I'm gifted. You know, because then you have to live up to these certain parameters of that label. Right. Yes. Or if you're labeled as a troublemaker, or you're labeled as a troubled child, or we learned very early, especially when we were in the educational system, don't label children. Yeah.

True. Don't label yourself because then you're confined. And sometimes the parents would want us to label them, you know, they wanted the child so they can have this benefit or that benefit. And yes, there were real genuine cases where that kind of help was needed, and I'm glad those parents were able to advocate for their children and get the help. But then there were situations where I think the parents wanted their child to be labeled that so that they would be in this protected category, when the child was not really in that category, but now they were forcing him to be in that category, and we as educators had to make a call, I mean, are we going to just be like, you know what, it's not worth the fight? Go ahead.

Do what you want to do. Yeah. Or should we stand on principle and say that's not right, because in our professional opinion, this is not right. Yeah. Sometimes I stood for that, and we were lambasted for it, or how dare you, or you don't understand, you are not educated.

Let me send you some 15 documents so you can read. And we're like, we read the documents, we've studied this, we know, and we do know there are genuine people who are needing that help, but I don't think in this situation that's what's happening, and you shouldn't do that. I think there's a difference between a label and a diagnosis.

Yes. Because there seems to be a lot less of that these days, where we have to look at the situation. We see if it fits into this category, or fits into this label, and then we're quick to put them there, you know what I'm saying, rather than, like you said, look at the situation and see if it acts this particular situation. So these things can both be true, but I don't see that as much in today's culture.

Yeah. Diagnosis versus label, that's great that Nicole said, because, yeah, diagnosis, and again, parents don't force that person to diagnose your child, to be that, because you can do that sometimes. Some people just give up, it's like, whatever, I'll sign that paper so you can leave me alone. And now, okay, you have to live with this. If you think about any labels that may have been put on you as a kid, as a teenager, how constricting were they? You have to think about that, and when you label someone, or you want to be labeled as traumatized, or whatever that psychological term is, how are you, how are you? Able to rise above. Rise above it.

Yeah, you're boxed in at that point. It's not just that's a part of who you are that becomes your identity, that's all of who you are. But could it ever work for the positive? Would you say that you were labeled in school as a leader, as a straight-A student? Would you say that it worked for the positive on the whole, but there were still some ramifications too? I don't think it was as much of a label that was applied to me.

It was not even a diagnosis, because we don't diagnose people who are doing well. But I think it was more based on achievements, that I was achieving this, achieving that, but volunteering here, showing up for things that other people are like, I'm not going to that. Right.

I don't have time for that. And I would show up. It was like, yeah, so this weekend we need some volunteers. I remember this one situation where, because I was in scouts, and so we would learn how to march and things like that.

And there was also, kind of like what we have here, the... The Boy Scouts? Not Boy Scouts, but we have a program teaching them how to be in the military and all that. Oh, ROTC. ROTC, yeah.

My mind just went blank on it. I got you, got you. We had something similar to that. I was not in that program, but nobody volunteered. So I was there, and I showed up and I said, I'll do it. And they said, okay, well, we're going to teach you how to march, and this has to be a very slow march, you have to kick your heels as you march and all that. And so another guy was there who was in the program, and together we did it, and we were able to lead that parade.

And it's like, I shouldn't be doing this, but since I showed up and actually learned and practiced, I'm doing it. And I had a uniform, I had everything, and we had learned how to salute. I mean, it was all kind of crazy. And you enjoyed it.

Yeah. Maybe that's an example of something you were talking about, where someone from the outside could look and say, well, he had that foisted on him, he had a put on him, so he had a lot of pressure to succeed. But it's like, no, I actually wanted that. I had to show up after school, I had to be there, I had to march as other kids were making fun of it. And then when the day came, and it was a big to-do, it's like some big government leader who was coming and was going to be at the school and do the inspection, I'm up there in the front. You were the one. And a few years later, I'm the head boy.

So it's all adds up. But I want us to kind of focus a little bit more, because I think the response we're getting is that people want to hear on this topic of trauma, because that is the negative label that is being thrown about and applied and even self-applied. But trauma is something so much more than just, I had a difficult time. Yes, something happened to me, and now I'm struggling with it. There's a neuroscience to it.

That's right. So what is trauma? Trauma is the wound that you get from either being in a traumatic experience, that you also, you're seeing it, you're witnessing it, or you can even hear about something. Okay, so there's an element to where it's almost like secondhand, like you're not directly involved in the event, but you're experiencing it somehow. Well imagine, like we talked about in the last episode, about children who have full access to YouTube and all these different things, and what if there's something going on and they click on it, and it's a video, a homemade video of somebody just being in a place where something is going on, and they see it. They're not in it, but they've seen it. So what does that do when they see it, when they actually see it happen? What is it physically doing to their brains?

Well there's several different things you have to look at. First of all, you have three areas of your brain that are affected by trauma. The first one is your brain stem.

Now we have to look and to see what that controls. It controls our breathing, our sleeping, our temperature regulation. Then you have your limbic system, and in that limbic system you have the amygdala and the hippocampus. Now the amygdala, it keeps our emotions and our survival instincts regulated. The hippocampus, that connects this part of your brain and even the frontal lobe with the brain stem. It connects those upper and lower parts of your brain. It helps you to express your emotions, and it has a lot to do with your memory function as well. Then you have the cortex, which we hear a lot about with the prefrontal cortex when it comes to teenagers and children where that particular part of their brain is not fully developed until they're about between 21 and 25.

So that part of the brain develops last. This is the part where it helps us to stop, to think, reflect, concentrate, problem solve. All of these are to do with our emotions and our behavior. So in the event of a trauma, your hippocampus releases cortisol, and it's a hormone in our brains that helps us to regulate the responses that we have to any stressor. So sometimes when that happens, your body can get stuck with these different things, whether it be your fight, flight, or freeze. So it's interesting that you're saying that as you were talking about the different areas of the brain, I was thinking about what are the typical responses you see in somebody who's traumatized.

That shell shock, kind of catatonic, unresponsive. Some people experience memory loss. Some people are triggered by specific smells, which your hippocampus deals with as well.

So it's interesting as you're pointing these out, you can start to see those signs that you've seen in other people, or even popular media, like, oh, well that makes sense now that I understand what's happening there. Or even when people have dreams and flashbacks and stuff, it's like they're reliving that moment again. Having trouble sleeping or the memories are coming in. That's the whole idea of PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder comes in. Well you have to think too, just think about your reactions when there's been no trauma, but what are memories brought up by when you think about things?

Things you see, things you smell, maybe something you hear. There's so many different things that can bring up those even good memories if you're not traumatized. So when you think about trauma, you've got to think about those same things as well that are bringing up the bad. The responses to trauma that we experience, there are so many shatterings that happen. There's a shattered belief about self at that moment. When you go through trauma, now you're traumatized.

Depending on the trauma, we may no longer believe anything good about ourselves. We tend to isolate ourselves from other people because we are unsure of who we are, unsure about ourselves, unsure that we may be able to withstand that pressure now, that stress, because this happens. It's like, I don't want to be in that situation because I know if I'm in that situation, this happens. Well, usually the trauma that he's talking about there that's very isolating is trauma that involves someone else, another person that has done something to you to traumatize you. So then when you are around other people and it's not necessarily that person, but just people in general, those things can trigger you, so to speak.

So that isolates you already. And it's not even just a person, it may be just a situation. It doesn't have to be a person that triggers that, it's a situation.

Crowds can do that to some people, especially if you've been through a terrorist attack or soldiers who have been in a crowded situation where things very quickly escalated and was not fun, crowded situations, you feel like, uh-uh, I need to get out of here. But there's nothing wrong. It's just a concert. You're having a good time.

It's a fair. I know, but there's something could happen here that happens. Shattered belief about other people, we may see others as an enemy because life is no longer safe. And then shattered beliefs about the future, if there's any hope in the future because of all that's happened. So there are a lot of shattered beliefs and also about God. People no longer believe about God, that God is faithful and God is there and God is active in our lives. It's a really weird place to be when you start having shattered beliefs about God, because I guess I could understand if there are people who are like, this happened to me, so I no longer believe that there is a God.

But then to believe, but then no longer believe that he's good or that he's powerful. You know what I'm saying? It's a weird place to be, and I'm grateful that I've never really gotten to that place.

But I also wonder how people can live like this. You know what I mean? It's tough. Yeah. It seems like a very hopeless. Yeah. Yeah.

What place to live? Well, I feel like it's also where we have to put blame somewhere, especially if something has happened to us, to someone that we love or we've seen. So we have to blame someone. And some places there is blame to be placed because there was somebody who caused that trauma. There was somebody who did the abusing. There was someone who caused that terrorist attack. I mean, there is a legitimate place to place the blame. But as we mentioned, keep in mind that sin and Satan is behind all of this. Of course, those people need to be held accountable, and they need to be dealt with. So if somebody has done that and that was wrong, evil, make sure you contact the authorities.

Make sure you talk to the right people, whether children or adults, no matter what stage you are, if they have done something like that, okay. But ultimately, keep in mind, behind everything, behind the curtain is the enemy who wants to traumatize people, who wants to steal, kill, and destroy, who wants to devour. Never forget that. Right?

And he operates with lies. Yeah. We do have to remember that Satan is behind all of this, whether it was a person that did this or it was just a natural disaster, it's all Satan, and it's all because of the fall.

Yeah. It's all because of the sin. I think that reminds us of the spiritual reality behind what we face, too.

Oh, yes. It's not just temporary situations. It's not just getting through the next day in life. There's a bigger picture.

There's a spiritual battle that we're going through. Yeah, more than just the stages of life. Right.

More than just where I grew up. Yeah. Do you think it's fair to say that how you handle trauma, I guess, determines whether or not you're traumatized? Because you have something traumatic happen to you, but if you handle it well, if you handle it with wisdom and godly proceedings, I guess, then you can come out of it untraumatized. Well, you might be traumatized, but you can come out of that. You can be healed from that. And it's not necessarily just that spiritual healing, but I'm talking as in physical healing as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Because it takes counseling and it takes the grace of God and just day by day, taking those steps to help yourself to become more healthy. And if you don't feel like you can completely free yourself from that, whatever that was, okay, there have been men and women of God throughout history who were in some form traumatized. I think about Moses.

Right? Moses had this stutter, right? He had this stutter. He was, when God called him to come back to Egypt and to free his people, he said, I can't, I can't speak. And I often wonder, was that stutter there before?

Yeah. And then of course, Paul, as we mentioned before, 2 Corinthians is the book for you. And maybe we can, as we continue this discussion, because I want us to focus on how children sometimes have to deal with trauma and how adolescents and teens have to deal with trauma.

And we'll put the spotlight more on Nicole and Ryan this time, because they are both in counseling fields. In both those situations, turning to 2 Corinthians can provide great source of comfort and godly wisdom, because Paul talks about his thorn in the flesh, something that he prayed for and he pleaded with God that he would remove it, and it was not removed. But it says, God said, my grace is sufficient for you, for my strength is made perfect in weakness.

That's right. And so Paul says, so I'm going to boast in my infirmities, so the power of Christ may rest upon me. And then he concludes, so that when I'm weak, I am strong. Amen.

I love it. So important for us as we're walking through these difficult situations in life to keep the proper perspective and to look to Christ every step of the way. Amen. And so for you, write in and let us know, 2525825028, or you can visit us online at Don't forget, you can partner with us financially on that same website.

Scroll to the bottom, click that donate button, and let us know what's coming from our Clear View Today Show family. Jon, what are we doing tomorrow? Tomorrow, we are continuing our conversation, albeit we are shifting it a little bit. So we've been talking about sufferings and the traumas of life. We're going to narrow that field down to parenting. You know, when you raise kids, you want to protect your kids from the ugliness of life. But it's also important to set them up for the inevitable sufferings that are going to happen.

How do you balance that? That's what the show is all about. We're going to be balancing the two extremes and find God somewhere in the middle. That's right. Joined by Permiguess Nicole Shaw again tomorrow as we continue the conversation. And wherever you are on the parenting journey, whether you have little kids, grown kids, teenage kids, or you don't have any kids, you yourself have parents. So you've encountered these relationships in some capacity. That's right. We want to talk about that tomorrow. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today. Good work.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-05-01 08:12:27 / 2024-05-01 08:26:23 / 14

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