Monday, April 29th | Children and Trauma (Part 1) (ft. Nicole Shah)

Howdy folks, it's me, Tom Sawyer, coming straight from Clearview Church in the heart of our beloved Henderson, North Carolina.

Gather round, gather round. We've got a spectacle you won't want to miss. Join us for a rip-roaring adventure down by the Mississippi with me and all my pals at Clearview Theater's production of Tom Sawyer.

From fence painting to treasure hunting, it's a tale that'll tickle your funny bone and warm your heart. Dr. Avidan Shaw is opening up the whole night, taking a look at the life of my good buddy Mark Twain. So mark your calendars and grab your tickets for an evening of laughter, mischief, and good old-fashioned fun at Clearview Church, Saturday, April 27th and Sunday, April 28th. Doors will open at 6 and show starts at 7.

Tickets are free, but they are going fast, so come over and see us at Clearview Church in Henderson and get yours today. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Avidan Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. You can find more information about our show at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shaw or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

That's right. You guys can help us keep the conversation going by supporting the show. You can share it online with your friends and family. Leave us a good five-star review on iTunes or Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasting content from.

We're going to leave a couple of links in the description, so you can do just that. Today is April the 29th, which means that our date, the word, is coming to you today from Deuteronomy 4, verse 29. From there, you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul. That echoes one of my favorite proverbs, too, which is really saying the same thing. I love those who love me and those who seek me find me. It's a promise. It's not just a logical like, oh, aha moment. It's a promise that if you seek the Lord with your whole heart, you will find him.

Not that it might be easy or not that he's going to make it obvious for you, but you will find him. I think that's just a really biblical truth that inspires me. It's a beautiful reminder that God wants to be known by his people.

So many other religions around the world, the deities that they chase after are shrouded in mystery, or they're removed from humanity, or they're vindictive or spiteful. But God desires to be known by his children. This verse is a great reminder. All throughout the Bible, it's a reminder that if you seek God, you will find him.

In seeking God, he will give you all the other desires of your heart if you seek him first. That's right. We want to remind you guys that you can have these verses to your phone every single day by downloading the Date the Word app. They are a partial sponsor of today's episode.

You can download it for free right now on iPhone and Android. Every single day connects today's date to God's Word with the hope of making it more memorable for you. It's Monday, man. It's a tired Monday.

My eyes are kind of heavy. It's been a long, long weekend. We just got through with our spring play, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer.

As Blink-182 would say, the play is over. Tom survived. Can't say the same for Engine Joe, yeah. But when did that come out?

The 1800s? If you don't know Engine Joe was the bad guy. I don't know. Maybe this ain't the show for you, man.

Maybe this ain't the show for you. How do you feel now that it's over? I feel good.

Tired, but full. It was a great weekend. Our team did such a wonderful job, from the tech team to the stagehands to the actors themselves.

Dr. Shaw's message was incredible in tying the story of Tom Sawyer back to the Gospel and the importance of living a life of integrity. It was amazing. It was wonderful. Oh, yeah. That's a big, big thing that we did.

But this is Monday. We're going to be doing all the small things. All the small things. Let's scale back from big picture.

Let's narrow it down. Just focus on the small things. Here we go. We're just going to let this breathe for a moment. Let's just scale it back, dial it in, and let the moment breathe. Come back down to earth.

Yeah, that's right. In this big, massive Tom Sawyer production, what do you think is one of the small things that maybe people didn't even know happened? On Saturday morning, Saturday is a full day for our actors. Our actors are here at 8 a.m. Saturday. That's a long day. I was here at 8 a.m. I don't even get out of bed for working it.

That's kind of crazy. One of the things that we love to do on Saturday morning is have a light rehearsal. What I mean by that is there are no costumes. There's no tech. There's no lighting. There's not even any lines. There's no stagehands.

There are lines. You are in character, and you are saying your lines, and you're going through your blocking, but it's really just a warm-up. It's meant to get you in the right mindset.

It's meant to wake you up. It's meant to be in character. But without fail, inevitably, at each one of those rehearsals, we did the same thing for Little Women. At each one of those rehearsals, there's some silliness that comes in. There's a lot of ad libbing, because they know, okay, this is my last chance.

Whatever I need to get out, I need to go get out. That's a way to kind of calm your nerves and just kind of laugh and ease into the day. I love it. It's one of my favorite things. Theater kids are silly.

Theater kids are very silly. One of our guys is playing the Sheriff. It's funny, because there's the scene at the end where Engine Joe tries to stab Tom, and then the Sheriff wrestles with him. But then, for the very first time, they wrestle to the ground, Engine Joe flees, and then the Sheriff gets up, and he runs off and just runs right past me and goes, Engine Joe, you scoundrel! Oh, man.

So funny. And those are honestly the things that kind of stick with you. In the midst of the stress of the show, in the midst of making sure everything is right, you remember those lighthearted moments, because those are the memories you take with you after the show.

Yeah, it's true. I don't remember a thing about the actual script or the actual play or the actual tech from Wizard of Oz when I was the Lion, but I do remember those moments in rehearsals where everything's just kind of silly. We had one at Tom Sawyer recently, and maybe we'll even attach it or show it on this channel or something, where the boys — so Judge Thatcher is talking to Aunt Polly after he believes that Tom is dead, and they're under the bed.

The boys are hiding at their own funeral. Yeah, and they're messing with his shoelaces. But they're supposed to be sneaky, right? But these boys — how old is your son? Your son is playing Tom. And then JW is 12. I think he's 12.

He may not be 12 yet. It's like 11, 12-year-old boys. So it's like, alright, guys, we want to very stealthily untie the judge's shoes. And they're like... It was like piranhas.

Ripping the actual shoelaces out of the shoes. It was ridiculous. So everybody just broke down and cracked up.

That's all the small things. Rehearsals get intense sometimes, but create those moments where there can be some levity, some lightheartedness. Your actors will thank you, and it'll ease some stress off you as a director. That's just one of the things that God has given you to enjoy.

So good. We're going to run that by Dr. Shaw. I remember the same thing with Little Women, the lightheartedness rehearsal, but I wonder if he does anything like that in preparation for messages. I don't think he just delivers it goofy. Yeah, no, I doubt it. I doubt it.

I will say this. I've walked in on him before standing in his office during one of the prayer vigils, practicing his sermon. I didn't know he did that. He definitely does. He'll stand at his desk and say it out loud. That's kind of cool. Let's ask him about that. If you do anything like that or you've been a part of organizations where they have that sort of lighthearted moment where you're kind of rehearsing and just kind of warming up, write in and let us know if that was helpful for you.

252-582-5028, or you can visit us online at cleerviewtodayshow.com. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Hey. Hey, you. Me?

No, not you. You, listening to The Clearview Today Show. You're here right now because you love Christian talk radio, and I'm 100% down for that. But what if I told you that Clearview Church also produces original music?

That's right. At Clearview, we're more than just a church. We're a vibrant family where everyone is encouraged to worship God right where they are. We wanted to make sure that your worship doesn't stop when you walk out the door on Sunday morning. Our music is more accessible than ever.

You can worship God in any situation. In the car, at home, in the gym, while cleaning your house, wherever you are, we'll be right there with you. You can check us out on Apple Music or on Spotify, anywhere digital music is consumed. We got a few singles out right now. We have an EP out as well. And right now, at this moment, actually, we are working on our first ever full length original album.

Hopefully that's going to be out sometime this coming summer. Clearview Worship on iTunes and Spotify is your 24-7 place for inspiration and worship. Follow us today and let God's message of hope, love, and faith be a guiding light in your life.

Amen. Let's hop back into the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text, 252-582-5028. That's right. We are here once again in the Clear View Today studio with Dr. Abbadon Shah, who is a Ph.D. and New Testament textual criticism professor at Abbadaba University, pastor, full-time pastor at Abbadaba Church. Did we do this?

No, absolutely not. We've got to power through. And the host of today's show, you can visit all his work on his website. That's abbadonshah.com. I want to launch into... Don't gloss past that.

With his very lovely wife. I want to launch into all the small things. Abbadaba Nicole. What just happened? I goofed up. Your tongue did like a fruit roll-up thing. You're like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

It did like that Pokemon lick-a-tongue thing where you go, like, and then it just comes back. Anyway, welcome back, perma-guess Nicole Shah. Thank you. Perma-guess, nice to see you. Nice to see you today. Thank you very much for having me. It was an unhinged introduction.

Let me try to sear us away from that moment. Dr. Shah, we just got through Play Weekend, the Adventures of Tom Sawyer here at the church. Wonderful performances both nights.

It was incredible. One of the things that we have done, and this is my, all the small things, kind of small thing that I enjoy doing in our opening segment. One of the things that has become critical to our success here in the Clearview Theater Ministry is a rehearsal on Saturday morning, not in costume, no tech, that is just goofy and fun. It is a light rehearsal. We still walk through the show, but it's just, I mean, people are saying lines that are just like completely wrong on purpose, or they have like a random prop, like they're supposed to go in with a knife and it's a rubber chicken, and it just like, everyone is laughing and it's just light and enjoyable. Like anything you wish you could do the night of, but it's too silly to actually do it. It's an intentionally silly rehearsal, and I just enjoy it because it's a chance for all of us to sort of breathe and relax before the intensity of the show. That's all the small things. Is there anything in your life where you will intentionally do something like silly or light in preparation for the big event?

No. No, you don't do that? I'm trying to think, what would I do that would be silly, light-hearted? It doesn't have to be a rehearsal thing either, just something that is silly or goofy or light before something that's really intense, just a way to kind of like, okay, all right, I'm ready. While you think, I know for sure every time I'm asked to sing the national anthem somewhere, I listen to like four or five fail videos. Yeah, those are pretty rough. Of people just terribly like messing up the national anthem.

I think if you do that, that you'd be tempted to imitate the mistakes. I just think the rockets red glare and the rockets were there, and the rockets were there. And the red glare was there. And the red glare was there.

And the red glare was also there. Yeah, I just think I just have to do it. And then in the end, if you remember the guy's face, if those of you who are watching and you've seen that YouTube video of the guys singing the national anthem, everyone was there.

We'll link it. It's so funny. But I know that he felt like, I wish the ground would just open up and swallow me. His biggest regret is that he was there. Did you say that was a traumatic event?

Oh, I would imagine so. You can see that in his face. It was like, he does this. He lays up at night traumatized by that. But when it comes to speaking, I've had two traumatic experiences in life.

Too traumatic. One was when I was probably about eight or nine years of age, and we used to have this competition during Christmas time. And it was, you get kids to memorize this speech or message and you get up and speak and then you have judges who judge them and give grades, and then somebody wins.

And then there are like extempore speeches and all that. And I remember the topic that my dad picked was why I am a Christian. And he wrote out the speech for me. I was going to say, so he wrote, he picked it for you? Yeah. No, he picked it for the whole church.

For my age group. It was why I am a Christian. Oh, I got it. Got it. Okay. And then I asked him to help me and he helped me with that. And it was deep.

Somewhere between Karl Marx and Karl Barth. I just completely lost it and I ran out of those. You left? You abandoned ship? Abandoned ship, ran out crying. Oh no.

Yeah. Oh no. How does that happen?

And then you still get a career in speaking in public. Then it comes to my second traumatic experience. It was not really traumatic. It was more of, it was, it was rough because I was working late night security. Oh, I think I know this one.

Yeah. I was taking intro to public speaking and I said, oh, no big deal. That's an eight o'clock class. I get off from security about seven. By the time I get back to my room, it's about seven, 10. I can quickly take a nap, seven 30, seven 35. The class is actually in the same place where I, the student dorm is or the male dorm is like forest hills, forest hall. All I have to do is just walk down the steps and turn and there they are. Perfect. I would lay down my seven 20 several times.

It's like 1155. I'm like, oh my God. So I failed the class. Failed the entire class? Yeah. Because I didn't show up half the time.

Oh, I thought this was a one time thing. Yeah, I thought this was like, I missed a presentation. No, I failed the class because I was not there half the time. So I failed public speaking. Oh no. I failed as a little kid and I failed in college.

I'd take it again. Yeah. I can't really talk. I did the same thing with my piano class. It was the exact same story, except I wasn't working security. I was just lazy.

I couldn't get up in time. But it was, it was a little traumatic. Yeah. I can imagine.

Yeah. Well, you know, we have Nicole on the show today. We're talking about marriage and family stuff. But we want to talk about in regards to trauma, how do we navigate through that?

And then how do we in turn help others navigate through that? Well, maybe this is a good chance for you to kind of let the people know, Nicole, like why is it notable that you're here with us and we're talking about traumatic experiences? I guess it's because I'm getting my master's degree in counseling ministries. And by the time I'm done, actually, I have to take quite a few classes, whether it's like on PTSD or trauma.

And I will actually have a trauma certificate, which I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at. But, you know, it's just it's not quite a degree. But it's... But a specialization. Yes.

It's a specialization along with my counseling ministry. So... Yeah. You know, we keep the show light and we keep it goofy and we keep it fun. But, you know, it is also important, I think, to note that a lot of our listeners are going through real sufferings in life.

And what do you think your daily encouragement would be for those people who are listening to a show like this, but saying, I love that you guys are having fun, but I'm right now really going through the ringer? Yeah, I would say don't let your suffering go to waste. Do not let it go to waste. When you're going through something, whether it's personal, whether it's financial, whether it's physical, relational, even spiritual struggles, don't let it go to waste. Don't let that time go to waste. Ask God, what is it that he wants you to learn?

Ask God how this can make you more equipped, better equipped for God to use you in a bigger way than you were before you went through that suffering. Don't let it go to waste. Often people let it go to waste.

They either spend their time talking about it, or they spend their time venting, or they feel sorry for themselves, or they're blaming someone, or they're looking for someone to pour their anger on. And yes, we all have that momentary lapse of judgment, and we do those things, but don't stay there. Rain yourself back in, give yourself to God, and see where God will take you. I appreciate that mindset so much because it shifts the focus from where we normally are, which is, I just need to get through this. I need to make it to the other side, and I just need to alleviate some of this pressure, alleviate some of the suffering, and then it'll all be fine. But what you said, Dr. Shah, don't waste it. There's something to be learned there. There's ways that you need to grow through this suffering, and it puts a purpose behind the pain that we deal with.

A couple weeks ago, I made a statement in one of our messages. I said, suffering can be sanctifying. And I had so many people come to me and say, that really helped them because they were going through something painful in their lives. But hearing that God was not absent from their suffering, but in fact, He was working through their suffering to shape them, to conform them into the image of Jesus Christ, that He was working all things together for their good, really helped them to know that suffering is how God works with us. We would rather get these lessons and these blessings or this next level of whatever we want through some other means. But think about it as cooking.

You cannot cook unless you turn up the heat. Suffering is how God turns up the heat for you to grow. You know, I think about a conversation like this and how, like you said, all those different avenues that people want to express their suffering, like venting, talking about it, blaming people and all that stuff. But then I think about a conversation like this where the whole goal is to help us walk with God through our suffering so that from the inside, we're being renewed and being sanctified rather than, like you said, just kind of waiting for God to bring me through it. Well, like you said, a lot of times people want to blame somebody and a very easy person to blame is God, because I can blame Him because it's not my parents or it's not my spouse, but it's God. How could He allow this to happen to me? Why me?

So He's very easy to blame, but like Abidhan said, He's working in your life. And if everything was always easy, we would never grow. We would stay right where we are.

We would never grow. We would never become the person that God wants us to be if we didn't have suffering. Initial reactions like that are okay when you initially, when you first get hit by that accident report or that physical sickness that you were not expecting or you were thinking man is all done or some relationship breakdown, initial reactions, yes, we get it. Initial reaction does not mean like the first few moments. Initial reactions may last for a few months. Initial reaction maybe even go on for a year, but you need to move past that. I know people who haven't moved past that initial reaction and I'm not talking about again the first few moments.

I'm talking about maybe even a year max, but let's start finding a breakthrough to okay. That was not good, in fact that was horrible, that was a shock, that was painful, but now we are at this place. Still struggling, but in a much better place, but I think many times people never get past that initial and they're still, it comes out. It comes out.

Oh yeah. What do you think contributes to that? Why do some people not make it through that initial reaction?

Why are they still stuck there? I would say they haven't processed it properly or haven't had the right influence in their lives or they're unwilling to listen to the right people and so they handle things the way natural people handle things. And we all do that and again, the initial response, whether it's few days, few months, even a year, understandable, but then you got to move on and for that, you need God ly wisdom. That's where you need Godly people. That's where you have to go, yes, this person is a great person, but I don't need to listen to them because they're not full of Jesus, they're not.

And listening to them actually makes things worse, I need to go here. That's why it's so important to, I feel to go, if you're going to go to therapy, if you're going to go to counseling, you need to make sure that who you see is not just Christian in name. There are so many counselors and therapists that have Christian in the name, but they don't counsel from a biblical worldview. And so they will get you all messed up.

Yeah, I think that's a great point. There's a lot of people who have been mistaken there, where they see Christian in the title or on the business card and just assume that's going to be Bible-based counseling. But a lot of times what counselors will do is they will say, I am a Christian, but I'm counseling using whatever methods are available to me, whatever psychological framework I'm working from, and it's not Bible-based, Bible-centered counseling and advice. Let me also clarify, for those of you who know a little bit more about these discussions, we're not recommending noothetic counseling. There is something called noothetic, which is like Bible-only, and that's it.

We don't say that. Yes, both of us kind of learn that way, although my field is not counseling, but I had to take psychology and counseling in my bachelor's as well as my master's pastoral ministry. But thank goodness both of us learn that you take what secular psychology and counseling has and you sift it through the Word of God, and what remains you use what doesn't you throw away. So, yes, we can learn a lot from the research that has been done, but then we have to make sure what we're learning, does it line up with the Word of God? Does it line up with the basic fundamental doctrines regarding man, regarding humanity and sin and salvation and redemption and sanctification?

If it doesn't line up, throw it away. Right. Do you think people get stuck there because they go to traditional counseling, feel better on the outside, but then see that it doesn't line up with the Bible, but they're like, well, I can't backtrack, so I need to stick with it? Do you ever feel like people do that or not really?

Not necessarily. I think that sometimes they go thinking that this is going to be a Christian therapist, but what happens is I think that sometimes those therapists will help them blame, help them focus their pain and their suffering on something, whether it be, oh, it's your spouse or, oh, it's your parents or it's your boss. If they're not Christian therapists or Christian counselors, a lot of times they don't worry about what's going on in here.

They're focused on what's causing you out here, what's causing you the problems, when a lot of our issues are our heart issues. Do you think there's a lot of that? Do you think there's some self-caused artificial suffering that happens? People who make themselves suffer in order to be pious or to, I guess, just because they're addicted to the feeling, you know what I mean? I think it can happen.

I think it does happen. It comes down to what kind of environment did you grow up in, and if you grew up in that environment where there was constant pity party and poor me and a lot of self-deprecating behavior, then yeah, of course, you may like suffering. You may like the idea of suffering because it feels normal.

It feels at home. Or as he was talking, a lot of times you want to belong and you want to fit in, and a lot of times there's this complaining attitude that people just kind of who are complaining about this one thing, they kind of group together, well, it's a way of attention, getting attention. Poor me, look at all the suffering that I'm going through. Look at everything that I'm... And you get attention a lot. A lot of times people don't care what kind of attention, whether it's negative or positive. There's also a flip side of that where there's those who want to maximize their suffering. What about those who kind of deny it or try to minimize it or be like, well, it's all good.

I'm not worried about it. Or trying to keep up the facade that everything is... I mean, I feel like I do that a lot of times where something is legitimately wrong, but if I just ignore it, keep it secret, nobody knows about it, it'll eventually fade away. How do you counsel a person like that? Well, I would definitely tell them.

Depending on whatever it is, you don't have to share your stuff with other people. You can share it with someone who you trust, me as a counselor, somebody that you trust, but you definitely need to work through it. And when I say work through it, I don't mean just self-help, I mean through prayer, through reading your Bible, through really praying through the issue, because God is going to give you the answers. God is going to heal your heart. He's going to heal those emotions. But it takes time. It's not an overnight thing, but I think that's where you need to begin.

Sure. I think that goes back to what you were saying at the beginning, Dr. Shaw, where there's something to be learned in suffering that our suffering can be sanctifying. If you're stuck just blaming or you're stuck being the victim, then you're not focused on what it is, how you should be growing. Or if you're just minimizing and trying to get to the other side, you're still not getting what the suffering is for. The best counseling session happens during the worship service. That is the best counseling time. When you're hearing the Word of God, of course, worshiping, fellowshipping, those are all very important things. But then when you sit down to hear the Word of God, at least at Clearview, I cannot say that for every church.

I'm not saying Clearview is the only church that has good, solid biblical teaching. But at least here, when we're doing that, when I preach, when I teach, when I apply the Word of God, what we're doing is we're counseling. And so this is where people work through the issue. So not every struggle that you have in your life or suffering you went through or even some extent trauma that you've been through that you have to have, okay, I need to have a therapist to work through this, or I need to sit down and really go through this, man, I gotta go through a lot. Not necessarily. If we did that, every single person would be in therapy nonstop.

And that's what sometimes the younger generation wants. Everybody is in therapy. If everybody's in therapy, then we all feel we're all in this together.

And it has this weird, sick, evil camaraderie. Yeah, because then the people who aren't in therapy must be the oppressors. They're the reason you're in therapy in the first place. And it also gives like a mass victimhood. All the people in therapy are there because someone had to put you there.

So how do I know who isn't there? Well, there's the people that aren't in therapy. The people that aren't in therapy are the ones who put us in therapy.

So it's stuff like that. So I would say listening to the Word of God is the best way. And that's why it doesn't matter what church you go to. True preaching. People ask me, what do you want from preaching? What is the ultimate goal that you're hoping for? Is that would people walk away with applying things and go, oh, I got three steps this week that I'm going to apply in my marriage.

Oh, there's four things I'm going to apply in parenting. So ultimately, the goal that I'm driving towards is submission to God. And so when you submit, what you're saying is, God, I don't have the answers, but I'm giving my life into your hands. Do what you will. That's so important in reframing how we understand suffering and how we understand God's role in suffering, in the suffering that we experience, how we navigate it, how we process it.

I know this is a much bigger conversation, and I want to dive into it in future episodes. So make sure you guys stay tuned. If today was helpful for you, write in and let us know at 252-582-5028, or you can visit us online at cleaviewtodayshow.com.

Don't forget, you can partner with us financially on that same website. Every gift that you give goes not only the building of this radio show, but countless other ministries for the kingdom of God. Nicole, you up for coming back tomorrow? I am. I'm coming back. Sounds good. Make sure you guys tune in. We'll see you tomorrow on Cleaview Today.