Thursday, November 30th | The Longer Reading of Ephesians 5:30 (pt.3)

Hello, everyone. Today is Thursday, November the 30th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. And you're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com.

If you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com. You guys can help us keep the conversation going by supporting the show. You can share us online with your friends and your family. Leave us a good five-star review on iTunes or Spotify anywhere you get your podcasting content from. Make sure it's five stars, absolutely nothing less. I don't want to cry today.

We're going to leave a couple of links in the description so you can do just that. Tomorrow's fine, but not today. I don't want to cry today.

I don't need to be sad. The verse of the day today comes from 2 Corinthians 5, verse 21. For he made him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in him. Deceptively simple and yet very complex, as most of scripture tends to be. For he who made sin, for he made him, God made Jesus, who knew no sin to be sinful for us, no, no, made him to be sin for us.

Doesn't seem like that big of a difference, but it makes all the difference in the world. This is what we talk about as the great exchange that happened on the cross. Most of the time we think about Jesus dying for our sins, and that's true.

That did happen. He took all the sins of the world upon him, and the wrath of God was poured out upon Christ. It was not absolved. It was poured out on Christ.

That's a very important distinction. But then the rest of this verse is important, and we often gloss over it, that we might become the righteousness of God in him. Not only did Christ take our sins, but he gave us his righteousness so that we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

That's right. If he were to become sinful, if he was being punished for sin, he would be just like us. But to become sin, become the object of our sacrifice, means that he was sinless. He was that spotless lamb put to death for our punishment, like Ryan said, so that we may get his reward. We may join in the reward of his suffering. And I can tell you this, I do not deserve that. I really don't deserve it. But praise be to God that he actually made that happen for us. Doesn't give us what we deserve.

Exactly, exactly. I heard you had some advice no one needed today. I do have some advice no one needed today. So I am in student ministry. That's my field.

Been doing it for almost a decade now. And I have learned something critical to not only the success in student ministry, but just success in life in general. Speaking to our visually impaired listeners. Like our blind people.

No, not blind, but just those of us who need a little extra help. Some of these things right here. Some of this right here. Some of these things right here going on. Y'all can't see on the radio, but we're not touching our glasses.

We actually look sophisticated. This is specifically for glasses. If you wear contacts, I mean, you should keep extra pairs of contacts around anyway. But you need to keep an extra pair of glasses. That's true.

You need an extra pair with your prescription, or at least something that's close enough to your prescription that it'll get you by. Here's why this has come to the forefront of my mind. We had our fall retreat recently in our student ministry. Great time. Loved it. Had a bunch of kids, a bunch of teenagers out in the community serving. Learned more about God, grew up closer together. Great time.

On Saturday night, we always go do a fun experience together. This time we went to a trampoline park. Was it Defy? It was Defy.

We've been to Defy before. It was Galaxy Fun Park. It's a trampoline park, but it's also a couple other things.

They have go-karts, they have a drop tower, mini golf, a bunch of stuff. Great time. Loved it. Students had a blast. Adults had a blast. It was great. Did you have a blast? I did.

For the first about seven minutes. Oh, no. A lot of my students are athletes, and they're very good athletes. They're very skilled, very talented. I'm like, fun student pastor. I'm like, I'm going to get in the dodge ball room with my students. We're jumping around a trampoline park. They're just foam balls. We're going to be fine. We're bouncing around.

No problem. Out of nowhere, I get a fast ball to the face, and my glasses promptly break. Just snap right in half.

Well, no, no. They broke in this region right here, and my lens fell out. Thankfully, the lens didn't break. I was able to pick them up. These are pretty sturdy. You and I both have the thick plastic frames.

Is it an optical style? I didn't use any, but I'm looking into that in the future. Put the lens back in, and I'm able to situate them to where they're snug together so my glasses aren't falling apart. I'm like, okay, I'm done.

Evening is done for me. I stepped in the dodge ball ring with a ninth-grade softball player. She was very apologetic for breaking my glasses. I was like, hey, I stepped in the ring with you.

I assumed the risk. Later that weekend, Sunday night, we're out playing basketball. I'm out on the basketball court, not actively playing. They're like, Ryan, come play with us.

When your students ask you to come play with you, sure, obviously, you're going to go play with them. Pause. At that point, did it register to you like, my glasses have already been broken once?

No, I completely forgot. I am moving around. I'm not actively hardcore playing basketball, but my glasses fall off of my face, and then they did snap in half. Also, there was one point, a few years ago, we did a Christmas concert at the Performing Arts Center here in our town, and you dressed up as Junebug, this kooky character that we played in videos, and you had your glasses in the breast pocket of some overalls. Here's why, before anyone judges me, because I was Junebug, but then I was also singing in the concert, so I had to quick change, and I need to see backstage. I was going to walk backstage, put my glasses on, and then quick change into what I was wearing that night for the concert.

The glasses are in the front pocket of overalls. Yeah, for anyone unfamiliar with Ryan's Junebug character, he's a hillbilly who wears a tank top and overalls, so they're in the overall bib. He tries to jump up on the stage in character. This is during the performance. This is not during soundcheck.

Oh, no, no. There's an audience full of people. Like a thousand people. He's performing in front of a thousand-something people, maybe like 1,200 people, and he tries to jump up on the stage as Junebug and just snaps his glasses all in half. As soon as I did it, I felt it, and I was like, mmm. There's footage.

There they go. There's footage from the actual night of worship of Ryan leading with no glasses. I sure did. I was blind the rest of the night. I go back, and I watch that footage sometime, and I'm like, why the heck is Ryan... Oh, I know why.

We know why. And I went back there, and at the time, I was like, well, there's nothing to do right now about it except for laugh, so I went and told Elizabeth. I was like, yo, Ryan just snapped his glasses in half. She didn't find it funny at all. She was not amused.

She was really stressed out already and was like, no, no, no, no, no, and just walked away, and I remember looking at some of the other women on the praise team like, what did I do? They were like, why did you, why would you do that? When I was a kid, well, I wasn't a kid. I was a teenager. I was old enough to know better. I was tubing with some friends in Carr Lake, and they were like, hey, John, don't go out there with your glasses just in case they fall.

I was like, oh, right. I was already on the tube. I took my glasses off. I looked at my friend on the boat, and I was like, hey, Josh, catch, and I threw my glasses.

I don't know what the world I was thinking because I saw him just like a cartoon, fumble those glasses, and they went right down to the bottom of Carr Lake. My mom was livid. I sure did. I remember.

Oh, no. That advice holds true. Make sure, make sure you have another pair of glasses. Keep an extra pair. It can be a cheapo pair.

It doesn't have to be a pair you like, but just something to get you by until you can get a new pair. Because it's a dumb choice, which leads to like you being crippled. You literally cannot see. So think about, think about like if you don't wear glasses, close your eyes and try to go about your day. Yep. Just, just do that. Yeah.

It's, you can't do it. Yeah. Keep an extra pair of glasses.

That's right. I, I'm, Dr. Charlotte strikes me, he's, he's always very prepared for any kind of eventuality. He probably has like four or five spare pair. But I've never seen, I've never seen a spare pair of his glasses.

I guarantee. He probably keeps them at home in the medicine cabinet. I don't have to ask him.

We might be wrong, but I have to ask him. I would, I would, I would be floored if he didn't have a spare pair. Yeah. He's, I know he's very, he's very careful with his, with his glasses. Yeah. He doesn't go to get on the tube and throw his glasses across the lake. Catch. Write in and let us know your, uh, your ocular misadventures.

I'm interested to know if I'm alone in this or if you've experienced similar struggles. Those of us who wear glasses, if you know, you know, I Y K Y K. Yeah. That's right. Write in and let us know two five two five eight two five zero two eight. Or you can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com. Stay tuned.

We'll be right back. Elizabeth, my darling bride, what would you say is the most beneficial thing you could do for yourself in the morning? Probably drink an entire pot of coffee when sitting.

I'd say that's a close second. Now, the best thing you can do for yourself is to start every morning with a daily devotional. Only be one to talk about.

Well, as it turns out, we have two. Right now you can unlock the power of daily inspiration, wisdom, and spiritual growth in our devotional series 30 days through a crisis and 30 days to a new beginning written by our pastor, Dr. Abaddon Shaw and his wife, Nicole. The 30 days devotional series is designed to reveal new biblical truths every single day.

That's right. And every day is a new revelation to guide you on your Christian journey toward a more meaningful and purposeful life. You can pick up your copy today from our website.

That's clearviewbc.org, or you can grab both books on Amazon, Apple books, and audible. It's 30 days through a crisis and 30 days to a new beginning by Abaddon and Nicole Shaw. And don't forget, these are only the first two in an expanding devotional series. So keep your eyes peeled for future installments. Thanks for listening.

Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com.

Or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com. I just noticed that my coffee cup has David's face on it. I think that's because it's not your coffee cup.

Yeah, this is David's. I have one with my face on it, but it's at home. Mine broke. Yours broke? Yeah, mine like that.

Look at Pastor Shaw. He's got his too. I was just looking at it. I was like, you don't have one? It's not here. It's at home. Mine broke.

It's at home. Well, listen, we are back here in the Clear View Today studio today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism. Dr. Shah, inquiring minds want to know, those glasses, while they are chic and they are stylish, are they your only pair? All right, so now you're going to have to hear a story on these glasses. Let's hear it. Please. Let's hear it. So I got these glasses.

Ready for this? In 2005. Really? 2005. The frames. Wow.

Yeah. I was trying to do the math. I was in high school.

Then I would have been in middle school. These are special glasses. They're, I think, made in Germany, I think it is.

They're known as silhouettes, I think. I think, if I'm not wrong, somewhere they have the writing on it. But of course, the glass part has been changed, I would say, at least three to four times. But I've had the same frame since 2005.

Wow. And every time I've gone into the eyeglass place, like lens crafters, and then my eye doctor, I walk around, look around, and then I say, what's the best one you have? And they take me to the same cabinet with the silhouettes.

And they're totally different people. And they take me there and they go, well, these are the best ones because they're so light and they're so nice looking and they don't get old, the classic look. Do you have, if those were to break, like shatter, break in half, do you have a spare pair? No. Those are your only pair? Yeah.

I was so wrong. I assume that those glasses come in handy when you're bent over studying manuscripts, New Testament textual manuscripts. They do. Yeah.

Even there, sometimes some of those manuscripts require more help. Like you need, you need, what do you call? Like a magnifying glass?

Magnifying glass. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

That's incredible. Because some readings are hard to decipher. Sometimes some Greek New Testaments have very small textual apparatus, which is like on the bottom, you know, have all the textual readings and support. It is so small. I'm like, why?

And so even when I try to bring in closer, they just get blurry. So I'm like, okay, I can't, I can't see here. I cannot see there. We, we, we mentioned this on the Tuesday show, but you have two really, really impressive. I think you have more facsimiles than this, but you have two very impressive facsimiles. One of Codex Sinaiticus, one of Vaticanus.

Yes. And I remember when you showed it to me, cause in our English Bibles, we have like the book, like the chapters, they're like, they have like block quotes. It's all broken up into verses.

It's very aesthetically pleasing and it's easy to be broken up. And when you showed me those facsimiles of the, of the manuscripts, it was so mind numbingly. First of all, it was all in Greek, right?

And it was so mind numbingly same. Like, like, like There is no word space. No, no. Yeah.

It's just They're all running together. It's one Yeah. It's an entire gigantic page of a one block of text. Yeah. And for page after page, folio after folio.

So, you know, once you really know Greek and you're reading it for a consistent period of time, a long period of time, then you begin to see, and it's not an issue anymore, but for someone who doesn't read that on a regular basis, it is a struggle. Like, is that a new word? No, it's not. Okay.

There I find an in, okay, in, and then you can start something and it's tough. For fun. I know you spend a lot of your time studying Greek manuscripts, but for fun, do you ever study them out of the facsimiles or are they just kind of for, to have and to showcase, or do you like ever pull the facsimiles down and study from them? No, I usually don't. I mean, it's, I don't want to spill anything on them or make some, you know, have some problem with it.

I'd rather just keep them locked away. Which one is the one that's like really, really accurate? That's like not printed on the Vaticanus.

Vaticanus. Yeah. When you showed that one for the first time. That one's crazy.

Even down to little moth bites or something. It's replicated in such a way that the pages, I mean like the, the, the weathering and the wear and tear around the edge of the pages. I mean, it looks like you are flipping these ancient pages, but it feels like a modern book. It's crazy. It's insane.

It's insane. We're talking today about, there's a reason we're diving into all this about textual variants and the Codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. We're continuing our conversation, if you've been back with us all week long, about Dr. Charles' research regarding Ephesians 5 30, the longer reading that includes the phrase of his flesh and of his bones and why that's significant, why it matters to both our lives as individuals and our understanding of things like marriage of church life and of studying the Bible as a whole. Well, see, cause Christians just want that kind of easy Sunday morning, Buzzfeed top 10 list.

Here's how to have a good marriage. We don't think of that as diving into research of the New Testament. Yeah. Right.

Right. Well, as I mentioned to y'all last time, variants in the New Testament texts are nothing new. All the way back to the 17th century, a scholar by the name of John Mill began to accumulate these variant readings and his text had 30,000 of them listed. And since then, you know, there's so much more that has come out, more manuscripts people have become aware of. And now someone like Bart Ehrman will say, there are more variants in the New Testament texts than there are even words in the New Testament. He'll say that. And I think that's misleading, misleading because, and he will also say that, I don't want you to be confused, but then he says that in such a way that you pay more attention to his shocking statement than to his scholarly statement.

And people usually read it and there's plenty of scholarly information there, but they walk away with a shocking statement as the aftertaste than the scholarly statement, which is most of these variants are not a big deal. Yeah. Which most likely was the Galawang.

Which is very, very much like what he likes to do. Yeah. And so, I mean, you know, we talk about textual variants, and Erasmus was aware of them. Erasmus, going back to the 16th century, he was aware of textual variants. When he put out his Greek New Testament, side by side with the complutensian polyglot, they were aware of textual variants.

But you see, the issue that was happening back then was this. Latin Bible was the prominent Bible, right? That was the one that people, the priest had. And that's the one that people sort of depended on, even though they couldn't read Latin, they kind of depended on the priest to explain to them if he ever chose to explain and if they ever chose to ask him. But the Latin Bible was the thing. So to those people, having a Greek New Testament was almost like, why would you do that? Why would you go to the Greek? Now you and I will say, well, you go to the Greek because the New Testament was written in Greek, right? But the copies, they don't agree. There are variants everywhere.

They're mistakes. But here's a Latin and you can read it. Did they think the Latin was like this polished, variant-free copy? Yes. Was it?

Yes. That's what they thought. But it wasn't. Right. Because now we're aware of the old Latin and all those Itala and everything. So we know there are differences in the Western text as well.

But at least for those people at the time, it was like, why would you waste time on this when you can have this? Of course, the Bible was written in Greek, but don't you want the one that has been cleaned up? Yeah.

I was going to say, this is kind of a cleaned up, even more accessible version for you to use. Right. More accurate because we translated before sort of all these manuscript differences came about. Of course, Greek is better, but we got the better Greek manuscripts from which this Latin has come.

Why do you want to go to that? So that was the issue back then. And then slowly with the coming of the Renaissance, the cry of the hour was back to the sources. Back to the sources. When it came to the classics, back to the sources. Let's go back to Cicero. Let's go back to Plato and Aristotle and Hesiod and Homer. Let's go back to the sources. And also when it comes to the Bible, let's go back to the sources.

What does that mean? Go back to the sources. Here's the Latin Bible. No, go back to the sources, which is the Greek manuscript. Were the autographs considered gone by that time, by the time of the Renaissance?

People knew they were not there. But the original language that it was written in, they wanted to go back. Yeah. So it took a while for the shift to take place where we're going to get away from, like you said, the polished copy, the authorized copy to the manuscripts that contained the New Testament in the Greek language. To go back to that, there was a mind shift that had to happen.

Wow. Well, I wonder, like, so how did that mind shift kind of manifest itself? Well, when it originally began with like Erasmus putting his Greek New Testament together, at the same time you had the complutensian polyglot by the Catholic Church, sort of Cardinal Hymanus is working his team together. And even though they sort of finished early, Erasmus was, I mean, this was a race, like the race to the moon or the race of the transcontinental railroad, you know, the race.

This was a race. Who gets to finish and publish first? And of course Erasmus did, even though the complutensian polyglot was sort of completed, but they were waiting on official order to say publish now they're out there. So Erasmus beat him to it. Okay. Yeah.

What was the significance of that victory? Erasmus was a humanist, right? Erasmus was a scholar. I mean, a tremendous scholar and this was not done under the auspices of the church. Okay. This was done by a secular scholar, Greek scholar, Latin scholar.

Wanting to arrive at the truth and present it to the people at large. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Whereas the church was... We can still trust you, but yeah, you put this together, but how do we know for sure?

I mean, that's always the question. Right. Post-Reformation or pre? This is pre-Reformation.

Pre-Reformation. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Because from that came the Luther's translation.

Gotcha. Oh yes, yes. From that later on came, you know, the Knox's translation, John Knox. And then of course with that came the King James Bible and everything. There's sort of a similar attitude there with the King James. Like this is the...

This is the authorized copy. Yeah. Yeah.

Nothing, nothing. 1611 only. Which to be honest, David, you want to jump in on the 1611?

What do you have to say about that? Most of you guys, unless you really know what you're talking about, probably don't even have a 1611. Most of the King James only don't have the 1611.

Like what, like the King James was updated since then and they don't even realize it. Yeah. Insane.

But they say that. I mean, it makes a great 1611. Yeah. A great marketing 1611 only. I can see it printed across a hoodie and someone's like, what does that mean? Yeah. But it's like, I don't even have that Bible.

I don't even have that copy. If people are looking to wade into this world, like I'm just thinking of listeners and viewers who have been listening to these past few episodes and are like, maybe it sparked an interest in textual criticism for them. And they're like, this seems like something that I would like to pursue.

What are some avenues or what are some things you would recommend if they're just thinking about getting started in this field? Like resources? I would say read Bruce Metzger's text of the New Testament. Read the one before Bart Ehrman stuck his name in there. I would read that one.

Not to say that the one with Bart Ehrman is bad. But I just feel like it's slightly tainted or, or, or slanted now because of his view of Orthodox corruption. Also, Kurt Arlen and Barbara Arlen's book, Text of the New Testament is also a great resource to have. Then there are scholars like J. Harold Greenlee. You can read his introduction to New Testament textual criticism. You can read Dr. Maurice Robinson's introduction in his Byzantine Greek New Testament book. There's one that just came out in 2018.

It has a great introduction in the beginning. Take some time to read that. Could I, could I make two recommendations?

Yes. One of them is can we recover the original text of the New Testament by Dr. Abaddon Shaw and David Allen Black. And the other one, the other one is changing the goalposts of New Testament textual criticism. I was trying to think. I was like changing the goalposts.

I was like, oh, what's this? I've got it right here in front of me. Well, cause it's not a subtitle. It's the entire title. Also by Dr. Abaddon Shaw. And guess what?

Links for both of those books are going to be in the description below. But only Christmas. I mean, listen, we kind of present that as a joke, but it's, it's really not. It's, it's contributing in a large way to the field of textual criticism. It's really a return to form. Oh yes. Yes. So thank you for making that.

I didn't, I didn't start out saying that, but I appreciate you guys saying it. So definitely those are great books to have and there are many more out there that you can read and kind of cut your teeth on and they will help you introduce you to the subject. There are books. There's another one called Rethinking New Testament Textual Criticism. That's a great book. David Allen Black has edited that book.

There are many out there that you can read and study and develop your knowledge. And don't get discouraged because they will have some boilerplate language. I mean, there's information in there that you will very quickly realize you're not an insider, but push and shove. Get in there. There you go.

I love that. Because we've been talking about this Ephesians 5.30 issue for this week, but that's not the only issue that New Testament Textual Criticism deals with. This is just the one that you've chosen to focus on for this season, but there's lots and lots of other issues. Some of them you've written about in your other books.

Some of them you still have yet to scratch the surface. It's one of those things where—and I think we've said this in previous episodes—you're always going to find something new to fall in love with when you start studying the Bible. And I think the thing that a lot of Christians find themselves not engaging in conversations like these is because we really have kind of grown complacent with having the Bible so readily available to us. Well, and that's one of the benefits of a show like this with Clear Read Today with Dr. Shah is because there are very few people—in fact, you're the only person I have met in my entire life—who melds the heart of both a scholar and a pastor.

I've met people who do one or the other, but you are the only person I have ever met who can do both and do both well. So you, as listeners and viewers, have the benefit that we have of working alongside Dr. Shah and listening and hearing not only these critical issues, these textual issues, these very technical terms, but you also hear the pastor's heart behind it that teaches us why these impact our faith, why it's important to dig into God's Word and equip yourself to become a better believer and a better defender of our faith. You know way more scholars than we do, and you actually went to ETS this past week. Do you find that a lot where it's like, we're really honing in on this specific issue, and yet the heart behind it is, I just want to show you I'm correct, versus, I really love this text, and I want you to be impacted by this text? Is there an imbalance between—or do you feel like more biblical scholars have that heart of compassion and application?

I would say the closer you get to some of these guys, the more—of course, there are weaknesses in all of us, and you see the need to compete with each other and one-up each other. I mean, there is going to be that. That's our sinful nature, and I look forward to heaven where none of us will do that. Amen.

Same. And having said that, most of them at heart do care about the Word of God. That's encouraging. And yeah, yeah, they do care. Like I was with Peter Gurry in another book, Peter Gurry and Elijah Hickson's book, Myth and Mistakes of New Testament Textual Criticism. Great book. We have that available in our resources.

We do. Elijah Hickson came to pick us up at the airport, and I said, Elijah, thank you so much. Let me give you a couple bucks.

He's like, well, I'd rather you do something else for me. I said, yeah, sure. He reaches over, pulls out my book, changes the goalpost, gives it to me with a pen and says, can you sign this for me? Hey, nice.

That's awesome. This is Elijah Hickson, who is now the research professor at New Orleans Theological Seminary, a graduate of University of Edinburgh, I think it is. Just a tremendous scholar. He's written several books, and Myth and Mistakes, which is a solid book, and he's like, can you sign my book? I'm like, can you sign my book?

He's like, yes. So I signed his book and told him what a blessing it is to have him as a friend. I mean, great guys. Just super, super nice people. I think that's what makes this field special is that there's a humanity to it.

If we lose that humanity, we will eventually start to lose that trust. And I feel like that's what scholars like Bart Ehrman have done to the field, where it's like this heart of I'm right. I'm going to devote my life to showing you that I'm right. Where it's this is, the Bible is right, and I will fight for it, and I will fight the good fight that God has laid before me to do that, using the tools he's given me and the people around me who are genuinely good people who care deeply about this text. That's right.

That's right. So good. We're going to continue this discussion on tomorrow's episode, but maybe this sparked an interest for you. If you'd like to pursue a career, maybe even just learn more about textual criticism, or if you have questions about Dr. Sean, not just about what we talked about today, but about textual criticism, his work, and maybe some resources or recommendations for you, write in and let us know, 252-582-5028. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. Don't forget, you can click that link at the bottom, partner with us financially, and continue great conversations like this, getting out the gospel of Jesus Christ. I love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today.