The game is on. The mission of God has commenced and opposition has reared its ugly head. But what exactly am I supposed to do now that I'm knee-deep in the game? Let's craft a plan of attack coming up right now on the Clear Read Today Show. A dookin' man that was that was really good.
You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Studio.
We're here for another great conversation with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. And if today's your first day ever listening, tuning into the radio, tuning into the podcast, we want to say thank you for joining us. And we're going to let you know exactly who's talking to you today. Dr.
Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, the mission is laid out before us. We are going, we are going forward with the blessing of God under us, the solid rock. He's our foundation, all that good stuff.
But people come against us, and we've been talking about that as leaders. How do we face opposition? And I think today is finally that time of what is it that we do? Oppositions are part of life. Anytime you try to do something that is worth doing, whether it's in the spiritual world or in the secular world, there will be opposition.
So be ready. Expect it. As I mentioned a couple of shows ago, one of my biggest mistakes has been walking into situations thinking this is foolproof. This is perfect. Wait, there's opposition?
Wait a minute. People seem right.
Somebody's not going to like this? Why?
Somebody's upset about this? And I've been in leadership for years. You know, I became a leader. When I was still in high school, when I was in ninth grade, I became a leader, began to rise the ranks of class leader and became the headboy. And if you know anything about School, especially schools that have been impacted by the British system.
I became the assistant head boy, became the head boy.
So I've been in leadership all my life.
So I know better that anytime you do something worth doing, there will be opposition. And yet there are times not all the time, because many times I'm ready for it. But there are times. that are naively Assume That everyone's for this. Yeah.
Everybody's behind me. And then, when I hear that, it hurts my feelings. It shocks me. It. temporarily dishevels me, takes me depends on the magnitude of the opposition.
It may be a day or two, sometimes it's a couple of days, that I'm like, I I don't know what's wrong, something is not right.
Something is n Oh, wait Hmm, yeah, that person said that, or they acted that way, or I heard from someone who heard from someone that this person said this.
So, personally speaking, I know you can't speak for everybody who's listening. There's millions and millions of listeners who are listening through Pray.com and Truth Network and all of this here. But just personally, how often is it when someone It comes against your plan or comes against your vision. How often is it like you're just looking for something to complain about? That is not a real issue, versus okay, yeah, that's something I didn't think about.
That's a valid point. What is the percent? What is the ratio? Do you think that's a great question? I would say.
Because I know in Nehemiah's case, that's not. You know, it's clearly this is opposition from the enemy. Right. The opposition of just just flat out troublemakers versus people who genuinely care and are a little confused or just not sure where I'm going with this. I would say the ratio of that would probably I would say b be maybe Two to eight.
Okay. Yeah. So very few in your in your career, very few like troublemakers. I want to get in here and destroy that. No, no, no, no.
It's more. Oh, oh, the eight to two.
Okay. Yeah, sure. I said two would be those who are like, hey, I'm not sure where you're going with this. I'm a little confused. Versus eight who are like, no, I want to cause trouble.
Gotcha. Most opponents just for opposition's sake. Yes, gotcha. Yes. Because people who are genuinely behind you, even if they don't understand what's happening, they're not going to go out there and badmouth you.
They'll be like. Knowing his reputation, he's not going to To purposely jeopardize our church, our organization.
So something is up. I need to maybe have a conversation, maybe try to figure out how I can help. Mm-hmm. How do you need me to help? And I'm fine with that.
Those don't bother me as much because I know where the heart is of the people. You know, they genuinely want something good to happen. They want the vision to come to reality. They're just not sure. And in those moments, I'm like, mm.
I should have done a better job in building consensus. I should have communicated better. I knew better. Why did I not talk to this person? I would say to.
Two out of ten. But the rest of the eight are people who are. Just they have their feelings Hurt because of some place they did not get the platform, the stage they wanted. Their feelings are more based on. Their experiences in life and how they were not given the prominence they needed, or they just love to get some people around them.
Who can be their followers, their little army, that's going to fight this this windmill mill And that's me. You know, I mean, they're going to fight this monster. Are these opponents, are they contentious in every area of life? Or is there something about a leader that brings that. out in them or brings that to the forefront maybe.
Various reasons. One is they grew up in In an unstable environment.
So contention became a normal part of their lives. There there is that group, and they're a combination as well.
So that is one group. Another group of people are those that they always have a low self-esteem and they feel like You know, why was it not included in this planning? Where is the inner circle? I did not get into the inner circle again. How does this keep happening to me?
I keep left out of all the important decisions. I had to be the one with pointing fingers, but yeah. And so they feel like, well, then I'm going to show some discontent somehow. I'm going to roll my eyes somewhere. I'm going to make a face somewhere.
I'm going to look at someone and kind of wait to see. Give them the side eye. Yeah, like, are you with me? Because, you know, we don't like this guy, right? Are you?
What? What do you, what?
Okay. You're. You sort of undecided.
Well, let me help you decide. Plus, together, not like we're laughing right now, but there's a bunch of pastors listening to this who are like, that's my life. That's my whole congregation. I am walking through that right now. That's my congregation, and I don't know what to do.
Yeah, right. And hopefully, today's. Show we can give you some wisdom from the word of God and practical example as well. Nehemiah, he's encountered these three people, and we kind of parsed them out on yesterday's episode: San Ballad, Tobiah, and Geshem. And they represent the kind of triumvirate of the world, the flesh, and the devil, these forces that oppose a believer's life.
And they're kind of represented or given life by these three men who come against Nehemiah. And they each had various reasons for opposing Nehemiah and the rebuilding of the walls. Do you want to recap that really quickly for our audience? Sure. What the actual opposition stemmed from?
Well, San Ballad the Horonite was a Samaritan or. Part of the Samaritan people. And he opposed the Jewish people coming back into Jerusalem because they're not his people. And them coming back and rebuilding their city and reinstituting the temple worship was detrimental to his business. Because now, how can he expand his business south?
Because these people are going to build the walls around the city of Jerusalem and put gates, and then there will be tariffs. Oh, I don't like that. I don't like that.
So that was his motive. Tobiah the Ammonite was part of God's people just based on his name. Yeah. He was we had lost Any desire, any zeal for the plan of God. He was living only for self.
That's all he cared about.
So that's Tobiah the Ammonite. Jewish people coming back back into the land, it's like, here we go again. We're gonna what are we what are we trying to do? Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob stuff again? Are have we not had enough?
of God's judgment on us. Have we not been Terrorized, By all the Assyrians who took away half our people, more than half our people, and then you guys from the south were gone too. We are finally trying to stand on our own two feet. And back, y'all are going into God's plan.
So He had His own motive. Geshem the Arab was to the south. He was probably the biggest one. And his motive was Yeah, business. Mm-hmm.
This is bad for business.
So All of them From the north. Because west is the Mediterranean Sea, so we're not that concerned about the west. But north. East? And the South.
was against the building of the walls around Jerusalem. and sometimes that may be what you're going through. You may feel opposition from every angle, or you may feel opposition from just the north and the east, or you may feel opposition from the east and the south. Or you may feel opposition from north, east, and south. Yeah, yeah.
And west is no better because that's the sea. Where are you going to go? Right. So your back is really up against the wall. That's correct.
There's no escape. And I think that's one thing that as leaders. Is a hard pill to swallow because I'm always the type of person and I'm getting better, but I'm always looking for an escape. You know what I'm saying? Not to confront this problem head on, deal with it, become the leader you're supposed to be.
How do I get out of it? Yeah, way around it, a way to circumvent it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And Nehemiah didn't have that option. No.
Right. So Nehemiah responds to his opponents, but he does in a way that I believe is very, very insightful. and helpful for all of us. whether you're in ministry, or you're a business owner, or in your family, You can learn from something that Nehemiah does here.
So First things first. Nehemiah chose to look towards God. Listen to verse twenty.
So I answered them and said to them. The God of heaven himself will prosper us. Mm-hmm. He immediately put God in that equation. I like that he says it to them.
He doesn't just like say, you know, hold on, let me get back to you fellas. And then he goes home and prays. He's already prayed, he's already done the spiritual legwork, and now he has the words to answer. That's right. If you remember what they said, they laughed at us, they despised us.
What is this thing that you're doing? What are you going to get out of this? Will you rebel against the king? And Nehemiah's response is: The God of Heaven Himself means God is behind this.
So many of us would defend ourselves. We would fire back. We would retaliate. We would explain all the reasons why they're wrong and we're right. But Nehemiah goes directly to God, and he brings God to bear right in that situation.
And that's the truth, because that's exactly what happened. God led Nehemiah, the cupbearer to the king, to go back to his ancestral homeland, which probably he never had gone to. being In Sushan being At the citadel, being right next to the king of Persia, one of the biggest empires in history. He had no reason to go down.
So He does. Why?
Because God led him there. I think one of your strongest traits as a leader that I've seen, and that I really admire you for, is that no matter what anybody says about you, no matter what any troublemaker ever comes to this church, I don't think anyone, even them, could ever say that you don't believe that God is here. You know what I'm saying? Like, me personally. I'm always going to try to make this make sense.
Let me explain this to you because clearly I didn't do too good of a job. I want to tell you why this makes perfect sense. I think genuinely you do a really great job of saying, look, either you believe all this God's stuff or you don't. And if God's at this place and if God's in this, then this plan is going to work. I think that's a real strong suit for you as a leader.
Thank you. That really means a lot. And I truly believe that. I truly believe that if God is with you, who can be against you? Mm-hmm.
Isn't that what the Bible says? If God is for us, who can be against us? That's right. And so these kind of people, just two you know, we did the two it's two eight. Two are people who are just genuinely concerned and genuinely confused and they just need you to clarify for them.
The other eight we're going out of ten the other eight are those who are just trouble makers. And for them, they just need to hear, Hey, God? Is guiding us? God's hand is upon us. This ministry is not about me, this ministry is about him.
This ministry is about The plan of salvation through Jesus alone, because He is the only way, the only truth, the only life. You don't get a second chance at this? And there's a real heaven and a real hell. Heaven is a place The new creation. Forever and ever in the presence of God with God's people.
And hell is a place of real burning, of real fire, devoid of the presence of God. And either you're going to heaven or you're going to hell. Mm-hmm. And I'm here on a mission. To take as many people as possible to heaven with me.
There's a bunch of pastors listening to this that said, Man, I wish I could speak like that. I wish that when the moment was on me, that I could say stuff like that. Yeah, but I fumble, I get frazzled, I get lost in trying to make this work or trying to defend myself. Yeah, and I know there are some really good, good pastors, good people, good business leaders, good leaders in general who know the Lord who struggle because feelings get hurt. Fear comes in.
Doubt comes in, discouragement comes in. And I just want to tell you, I just want to encourage you, if God is for you. Who can be against you? That's right. And that's exactly what Nehemiah says here: the God of heaven himself will prosper us.
Nicole and I have been at this church for coming up twenty eight years. And there have been many, many times when opposition came against us. And Yes. I would be lying if I say that I did not get discouraged. I would be lying if I say that I did not.
Want to quit. Yes, I wanted to quit. I wanted to give up. I just wanted to just be, you know, done with it. I just.
I don't know. And sometimes it came from people who were close. And then I had to decide, is this person Just concerned? Or is this person just a critic? One of my friends gave me a great advice.
He's been a pastor for many years as well. He said, a lady came to him And when he came to this his this church years ago. And mm starting from day one. She had a problem with him. That's a bad feeling.
Yeah. And every time, every time she saw him, she had something to complain about, something to fuss about. And she was a powerful person in that church. And she and he fondly said You know her name? She said, Listen, Miss So-and-so.
Every time we talk, this is what you do.
Now you can either be my coach. Or you can be my critic. You can be my coach. You can come to me and say, hey, listen, if we do it this way, this is going to benefit us. This is going to help you lead.
And I'm here as a coach. Or you can just be my critic, means nothing's ever right. Never gonna live up to your standards. And That's that. You can be my coach, or you can be my critic.
Please be my coach. But if you're going to be my critic every single time, I'm sort of done talking. Mm-hmm. And he said. That lady got it.
And she said, Well, I'd rather be your coach. And she said, from that day on, there was a great friendship that developed. Wow. And she became. his biggest cheerleader, his biggest supporter.
And that's what needs to happen. I love that.
So I hope some point in time, pastors, leaders, that you will. Throw out that challenge to people. Hey, you can be my coach or you can be my critic. That's right. It's up to you.
Yeah. If you're a coach, I want to listen to you. If you're just a critic. I think time's up. I think there's the book there, How to Turn Critics into Coaches.
There you go. There you go. Don't say the title out loud. Delete that. Cut that.
Put a bleep in there. Write that down. Write that down. Go ahead and patent it right now. That's right.
Get the office on the line. Oh, the U.S. copyright website is down. No. That's such a great concept.
And, you know, what could be a sticking point, what could be a source of contention, of continual frustration, meeting it head on and saying, hey, you know, you can help. You can have a part, a vested interest in this, or you can continue to throw up roadblocks. And praise God that that woman got it, that she got on board and that she understood the vision and that she, you know, shifted the way that she was bringing things and became the greatest cheerleader that that past year.
Well, that's a great way to parse out those people, like you said, who are there just to make trouble or who are there to do or genuinely confuse. Are they willing to change? Because if I had been in his position and I hadn't said something like that, I would think, okay, this woman's just a troublemaker. But through confronting it and through handling it that way, he actually was. able to to see the the good beneath the coach under the the coach underneath the critic yeah The second thing that Nehemiah did is that he renewed his vision.
You have to revisit. The plans You have to go back to the drawing board and say, What is it that I had placed here? What is it that we began doing. Look at the plan again. And For this you have to have a vision.
Nehemiah could have been distracted. He could have stopped the building for a better time, a more opportune time. Instead, he reminds the people not to lose sight of the vision. We, his servants, will arise and build. That's it.
This is why he came. This is why he left his cushy job in Shushan in Persia and traveled 700 miles across the desert, crossing the rivers, and came to Jerusalem. Mm-hmm. To build the walls. What if someone's listening and they say, you know, I don't have a vision for my life, I don't have a vision for my ministry.
Or maybe I've been so focused on the negative that if I ever did have a vision, I can't remember it anymore. you know, years ago when our church Was going through that period of transition.
So, so kind of. quickly highlight some things if that's okay. Sure. We came. To this church in 1998.
In 1999, I came as the pastor. And then I laid out a plan to the people. I said, this is how we're going to grow. And they said, absolutely not. That's going to be a hard no for me.
They said. We expect you to be here a couple of years, learn, use this as a training ground, and then go on to a better place, and we're just fine with that. Don't change anything. Don't come up with all those plans. Use this as a training ground and then move along.
What a bleak outlook. Yeah. But I mean, they were sort of. reconciled with the fact that their church was not going to grow. that this was the end and one of them will have to be the last one.
To turn the lights off, and that's it. That makes my heart sing. I know. It happens all over America. I know.
Was there a real fear in you that that was going to happen to Clearview? At the time, I'm guessing it was still Tabernacle, but was there a real? Or did you know there's no way I'm letting that happen? I knew that. If God had called me here, Then this church is not going to shut down.
As long as I'm alive. Because once I made that commitment, it was after talking to my dad, he told me stay there, because if you run today, you're going to run all your life. Once that commitment was made, I was going to stay whether there were going to be two people or even one person, I was going to be the pastor. And I'm going to continue.
Well, how are you going to make ends meet?
Well, I'm going to work two, three jobs. That's fine, because I was doing that. Yeah. I was a grader, I was an instructor. in the seminary for a time.
I was principal of a Christian school. For three, four years Nicole worked several jobs. And so we were committed. We were committed to staying no matter How many people? Do you find that that level of tenacity is missing in a lot of pastors today?
Oh yeah. Yeah, unfortunately. Because we see the big names in history, or we see the big names around, and we see them jumping from church to church to get to that place. Like Spurgeon, one of my heroes. But their story was different.
They did not leave because. Things were not going their way. They left because God was taking them to a greater place of influence. He said, well, how about you?
Well, we're already experiencing a greater place of influence right here. Right. Now, if you are in a town of ten people. And there are Three churches. And there are three people in each church.
At the end of the day, you're fighting over the one person who is unaffiliated.
Now, you know, you can stay there if you want to. But if you were to say, hey, I think God is leading me in a different direction. It's understandable. Yeah, like how much does the winner of that three-way battle really matter? Right.
Right, because you're pretty much gonna grab one from here and he's gonna grab one from there and y'all just gonna circulate that those three members of different congregation, except for that one guy. Who's like, I'm watching this. It's a lot of fun watching me. Watching y'all fight over me. But if you are in a community of, of a hundred people And there is.
There are only two churches. and each of them have ten people, you still have eighty out there that you can reach.
So, for you to say, I'm done, I'm out because maybe not. Yeah. Maybe not. Especially if you're in a community like ours, which is constantly growing, which is always under development, and more and more people are pouring in. Like our mission field will never be.
Like here in our community, it will never run dry. I wish more people understood that, too. It's not just a matter of moving this person from congregation to congregation. There are people who are in our community that don't go to church. They are not going to church.
Currently, they're not saved. There are some of them that are out in our community that are not Christians.
So, why are we so concerned with the handful that are in this church and this church when there's an entire sea of people who aren't going to church at all and haven't been reached with the gospel?
Well, just like you said with Charles Spurgeon, like his moves were not to elevate myself, was to elevate himself. It was for each community that he went to, the impact kept growing. Here too, really. Here, our impact is just growing.
So i it was different. My commitment was there. And then in two thousand five I had already decided by this point that we're not leaving. This is the church. People shut down the plan that I had in 1999.
That's fine. I'm still their pastor. I'm going to preach the word, I'm going to love the people, and I'm going to reach the lost. And I'm going to do whatever I can to help this church grow. I'm not just going to sit there and just preach and leave.
No, I'm going to try to implement things. But I'm in f I'm I I'm here for the long Game. Long game. That's it. Yeah.
And then 2005 We lost another p member in our church, a giver, a supporter. And they felt like the church wasn't going anywhere. And I said, no, no, no, the church is going somewhere. Stick with us. Stick with us.
Don't leave. We need you. And the person said, No, no, I'm done. I'm gonna go somewhere where I can make more friends and things like that. And and I was like It was very disheartening.
And that's when we made the decision To approach the church. And I went before the church again. This is my second special called meeting. It took me from 1999. like maybe October.
to uh two thousand five August, September, that period.
So do the math. How many years is that? Six years. Six years. Six years.
It took me six years to finally go against before the people and say, I think. We need to sell this building and move somewhere else. Our goal is to move But it's always to come back and reach this place again.
So, you gotta get that right because if you're moving to get away from a problem. Then you have the wrong perspective because God has placed you there to fix that problem. But sometimes you have to move somewhere else to have the resources to fix that problem. That's right. Yeah, that's a great point.
But you know, our time is up, so I'm going to stop there. But listen, tomorrow's show, I'm going to talk a little bit more about. How that process went. Amen. That's right.
And I hope, I hope our listeners are. I mean, I hope you're taking notes, unless you're driving, in which case, you know, dude, like talk to me. No, it's worth the risk. But it's these are such good lessons that I feel like are not talked about enough. They're not talked about in leadership training.
They're not talked about in seminaries. They're not talked about in the classroom where people are learning what it means to be a pastor or the leader of an organization. That's right. Where you have to have that level of tenacity where you say, I'm not moving, I'm not leaving.
However, we've got to take a hard look at what it is that we're doing and renew the vision that God has given us. That's right. It's going to make you a better leader and it's going to see you through the worst of the opposition the enemy throws at you. That's right. Share these episodes with someone in your life who would benefit from these.
Maybe you know a pastor who's struggling with at a church. Maybe you know a leader of a business who needs these principles to help revitalize his vision or her vision. Share these episodes. You can do that by following along on any one of our podcasting platforms and you can also do that by supporting us financially at Abadanshaw.com forward slash give. That's right.
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