Learning From Our Mistakes

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And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. What's the biggest mistake you have ever made? We want to hear your answer. Give us a call, 866-34TRUTH. That's 866-348-7884.

What's the biggest mistake you've ever made? And more importantly, how did you learn from it? Man, that's a great question. What hey, everyone. I am Ryan.

This is John sitting next to me. We are the team from the Clearview Today Show. Dr. Shaw is here with us as well. And we are excited to be with you today on Truth Talk Live.

Very grateful to our good friend Stu Epperson Jr. over at the Truth Network. Very grateful to the team at Truth as well. I'm excited to be on the show today. Yeah, it's going to be a great time.

This is our third time hosting Truth Talk Live. Dr. Shaw is going to join us a little bit later, but we want to talk to you guys because the Christian life is more than just I go to church, I get up in the morning, I do my devotionals. There's a lot of real hurt and real mistakes that come along with the Christian life. And we want to hear from you guys.

We want to hear how you're learning from your mistakes. You know, we talk about mistakes a lot in the form of like ministry, my struggles, these little things that I've got going on. And a lot of times our mistakes are just, oh, I forgot to send the email. Oh, I. I kind of, I was kind of rude to my wife.

That's a blunder. Yeah, just a little, but what happens when you're in ministry, right? What happens when you are, you know, in a, in a pastoral role and a mistake causes families to leave the church? What happens when you hire the wrong person and now there's a scandal? Yeah.

What happens when something really, really irredeemably bad happens and it's on my shoulder?

Well, you know, mistakes are processed differently depending on a person's personality, depending on their bent.

Sometimes people, when they encounter a mistake, they tend to be defensive. Like, let me explain to you why this happened or why I made this call.

Some people can think it's catastrophic. Like, I should have been perfect and this was not perfect. Therefore, I am bad. They internalize it. They've made a mistake, but they internalize it as like a self-worth kind of thing.

And maybe some of you out there fall somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. But the cold hard truth that we really don't want to face. Is that everybody makes mistakes? Everybody makes mistakes. It's a part of life.

You know, Jesus knew that. Jesus talked about how, you know, we make mistakes. Jesus talked about forgiveness, not only just forgiving yourself, but the Father's forgiveness. I'm thinking about when he was on the cross, he said, Father, forgive them. They know not what they do.

Imagine some of the people who were at the resurrection or who were at the cross hearing that Jesus has come back. Maybe some of them were some of those 500 eyewitnesses. Imagine you're like, oh my goodness, I have truly goofed up. But Jesus said, you know, Father, forgive them. They know not what they do.

And so a lot of times as we're making mistakes in life, you got to remember that. You got to remember God's forgiveness and you got to remember to forgive yourself. And we're going to be talking about that a little bit later. But again, we want to hear from you. 866-34TRUT.

That's 866-84348-3423. Yeah, 348-7884. Ryan, how long have you been in ministry, man? Vocational ministry. I've been doing this as a job.

12 years. 12 years. About the same. About 12, 13 years. Have you ever made any mistakes?

Yes, I have. Really? Good gracious. Yes, I have. I don't think I've made any.

Oh, I really don't think I've made any.

Well, hold on. No genuine. I might have made one or two. I Three or four. I mean, maybe like three or four million.

Seven or eight or nine hundred and five or six. And that's one of the things. When you start to realize, just like Ryan said, the mistakes are inevitable. But mistakes are also extremely, extremely costly. And you need a mentor figure.

You need someone in your life who's there to coach you through those mistakes. And fortunately, Ryan and I have that in the person of Dr. Sean. He's gonna be joining us here in just a second. But as we're doing that, we wanna let you guys know that there's someone in your life, or if there's someone in your life, who you can point to and say, that is my pastor, that is my boss, that is my friend, that is my mentor.

Then you are much, much better off than 99% of the secular world. You know, John, you're talking about having a mentor. And certainly I would agree with you that Dr. Shah has been a tremendous and continues to be a tremendous mentor for us. One of the greatest things a mentor can do is help you course correct in that making a mistake.

Yeah. Because we have a tendency to get stuck in our own heads or have a tendency to have this negative self-talk. And if you have that just echo chamber with yourself, you're going to either fall into that. Let me tell you why this wasn't my fault. And then you start believing that yourself, or you fall into that trap of, man, I'm terrible.

I'm just worthless. I'm not cut out for this. You need that mentor who can help you say, yes, this was a mistake. Let's talk about how to avoid it in the future. But also to say, let me teach you from the things that I've experienced so that you can avoid making those mistakes.

That's right. You may, there may even be a third option. If you're not one of those, you might be someone who's more like me where you weaponize grace. And what I mean by that is, you know, I grew up in a home where mistakes really weren't ever addressed. You can make a mistake and they'd be like, oh, come on, man.

What are you thinking? And that's about as far as it's going to go.

So, in my life, pretty much everything has worked out for the better. And I think what, I mean, that's that's great. It makes for a comfortable, easy life. But what it doesn't make for is a spirit of accountability to where when you make a mistake, you think, well, I mean, I know it's going to be fine. I'm gonna be okay.

I mean, my story has to end well, right? I'm the main character. But what I think what Clearview and what Dr. Shah has done for me is to help realize that the mistakes are costly and they vary and they can be costly.

Now, that doesn't mean, like Ryan said, that you live in that sense of dread and that guilt and that shame. And I think a lot of you guys who are listening probably can relate to what I'm talking about here if you live there. But no, neither also are you to be naive. You know, God doesn't want you to be naive. God doesn't want you to have this spirit of, well, I mean, everything's going to be all right.

Jesus saved the day. And look, in heaven, All these mistakes, they're gonna matter. Yeah. That's not true. You know, that's not true.

They're going to matter. In fact, Dr. Shaw's coming and sitting in. Welcome, Dr. Shaw.

It's good to see you. Good to have you on Truth Talk Live. How are you doing, my friend? We're talking about mistakes today. Making mistakes, how to recover from mistakes, what we can learn from mistakes.

And, you know, we come to the conclusion, Dr. Shaw, that we mess up. We goof up. I have to say this. You guys are the best team.

So, yes, I wish I could say it's like, oh, some terrible mistakes. No, overall, this team has been amazing. You, Ryan, John, David, and the rest of our group all around the building. I mean, I'm really blessed to have a team like this. Really blessed.

Uh, you know, as a good friend of ours who was on the show with us recently, he said it this way: there's a big difference between, you know, making a mistake and making an infraction. That was yesterday's.

So, if you're listening to Clearview Today episode, that was yesterday's episode with Dr. John Check. Great episode. Yeah, that's right. Mistake is something you can say, oh, I forgot to do this, I forgot to do that.

That can be rectified. Infraction is when someone is offended. And those are things we want to avoid. Those are things we want to learn from if you do make mistakes. That kind of an infraction.

That's right. And you guys don't do those infractions quite as much. I appreciate you saying that, Dr. Shaw. But I mean, I think John and David, who's here, the rest of our team will echo this as well.

We did not arrive in this state. We arrived pretty rough around the edges, needing serious course correction and redirection. And over the course of, you know, more than a decade for each of us and the rest of the team as well, you've done a remarkable job in showing here's why this matters. Let's course correct these mistakes, but also showing grace and saying, hey, it's not the end of the world. We're going to be fine, but here's how we can do better and here's how we should be better in the future.

That's right. Absolutely. One of the things I think as men, and I'm sure women have this kind of conversation too, but I appreciate that, you know, as men on this team, we're able to talk about these mistakes because when you do that, I always feel this sense of when I walk out, I always feel the sense of, you know what, tomorrow I want to do better. That's right. Not like.

I better do better because I'm going to be in huge trouble if I don't. It's like, no, no, no, this was a mistake, and this was kind of serious, and this is going to have consequences. But tomorrow I get a chance to do better. And I think that's the best culture. To thrive in.

And unfortunately, maybe you can talk about this, Dr. Shaw. A lot of cults, a lot of churches, and a lot of ministries and organizations. Don't have that culture. That's right.

That's right. And it becomes, everything becomes fatal. It's not fatal. It's not a good thing. We're going to have to work on this.

We're going to have to deal with this one. But it's not fatal. There is hope if we're willing to come together. And our team, I am so, so, so blessed. And I mean that not just because of this radio show today, but because that's what I truly believe in my heart.

I am so truly blessed by God with a team that even though sometimes we fumble, we fall, we have those infractions, but there is this sense of, no, I'm. I will do better. That's right. We're going to come together. And we are able to forgive, we're able to regroup.

And like you said, John, there's hope. That's right. When a team loses hope. When a leader loses hope, that's one of the worst things that can happen. Might as well quit.

I hope you won't. But hope is very critical to a leader. That's right. And we're going to talk about that a little bit more, but we want to hear from you. 866-34-TRUTH.

We're going to be talking about how to learn and how to have that hope from our mistakes. Stick around, we'll be right back. Truth. Uh You're listening to the truth network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live.

What is the biggest mistake you've made in your life? And more importantly, what did you learn from it? 866-34 Truth, we want to take your calls. In fact, we've got a couple of callers right in the queue right now. Amy from Virginia, you are on Truth Talk Live.

How are you, Amy? Amy, you with us? I think she's driving. I can hear something going on. Amy, can you hear us?

Welcome to Truth Talk Live. All right, we're going to try to get reconnected with Amy in a second, but luckily we have another caller, Mary from Virginia. Mary, you are on Truth Talk Live. How are you? Oh, maybe the phones are down, I'm not sure.

Mary, you're on Truth Talk Live. How are you today? Dr. Shaw, what's the biggest mistake you've made in your life and what did you learn from it? We're going to get back to our callers here in just a second.

Yeah, there's a lot of mistakes I've made in my life. If I were to sit here and say, no, it's been a mistake-free life, no, that's not true. I've made mistakes as a little boy. I've made mistakes when I was in school. I made mistakes through the years before God called me in the ministry.

I've made mistakes in the ministry. Uh but One of the things that I had the blessing and the privilege of having is mentors in my life. My dad Even though I didn't look at him as a mentor, he was a mentor to me. I watched him. I watched how he interacted with people.

I I watched how he would talk to people. And it was very frustrating for us as family because people would come over to the house and they would sit, and my dad would sit there and listen to them. And talk. There was this one gentleman who would come to our house every single day for a while, for a while. He was there every single day.

Good grief, every day. Every day. And I remember my grandma, who used to live with us, she would say, Is he back again? Not this. But what I noticed was my dad genuinely cared about people.

And that. Impacted my life. And I hope I am known as a pastor who genuinely cares about people. Absolutely. I mean, you have to care about people to do this thing that we do.

But also, I think you modeled that, and your dad models that in that knowing that people are going to make mistakes. You know what I mean? It's an inevitable part of our life, not only just working in the ministry like we were talking about earlier, but our Christian life as well. That's right. I think, and coming alongside as a mentor, which you do for us, Dr.

Shaw, helping us not just course correct those mistakes, but helping us learn. from those mistakes, I think is the biggest thing. A mistake, if you don't learn from it, is wasted. That's right. There's no point in having gone through it.

But if you learn from it, you can be better for it. That's right. That's right. Don't waste your mistakes. I want to try the phone one more time with Amy from Virginia.

Amy, can you hear us at all? Can you? Are we connected, Amy? What about Jessica from North Carolina? Let's try that.

Maybe Jessica from North Carolina. Jessica, you're on Truth Talk. Can you hear us?

Okay, we can try again in a little bit. You know, one of the things that I was thinking about, Dr. Shaw, when it comes to mistakes, especially mistakes in a ministry context or even just mistakes in our personal lives, is how. Costly, they can be. How do we not, as believers and as Christians, how do we not become?

Terrorized? How do we not become paralyzed, unable to move forward? Unable to move forward without being able to, you know, without being able to not have. have these mistakes in our lives cripple us.

Well, I mean, if you think about in the Gospels. Two men. Both of them walked with Jesus. One was Simon Peter. And the other one was Judas Iscariot.

Wow. Right? Two men who made some terrible decisions. Think about Peter. The decision he made was not that he denied Jesus three times.

The decision that he made was that Jesus told him, do not come after me. This is not your fight. And Peter in that moment of exhilaration, like he can say that I am the the you know the the stalwart, I'm going to stand with you, I'm going to die with you. And Jesus said, Before the night's over, you're going to deny me three times. Wow.

And Peter denied Jesus three times. Even cussed. Yeah, Jesus. Cursed Jesus. Man, that's one that you feel like you just don't walk away from.

I mean, yeah. I mean, you see that later in the Gospels. Peter just feels like he can't recover from this mistake. Yeah. That's right.

And then you see another man who, of course, we're talking about Judas Iscariot, who went and betrayed his master. He betrayed Jesus. Horrible thing to do. I mean, Jesus himself said, the Son of Man indeed goes, but woe to the man through whom he is going. That's right.

I believe if Judas had come before Jesus and said, Would you please forgive me? Would you please forgive me? Jesus would have forgiven him. Peter Came back. Judas didn't.

Wow. Big difference. When we make those even in fractions, we need to ask ourselves: you want to be like Peter? You want to be like Judas? Do you want to go down this path of no return?

Or do you want to be like Peter and say, God, I'm embarrassed? Yeah. I'm shameful. I messed up. I need your grace.

I need a lot of grace. And I know you're a God of grace. I don't have to remind you to show me grace because you already are doing it. But I need you in my life, I need your help. Or you want to be like Judas, who went out on his own terms.

People do that. I'm going to walk out on my own terms. He walked out and hung himself. Wow. You know, again, this conversation is not about suicide.

This conversation is about a man who would not humble himself and say, okay. I really Went down the wrong path. Can you help me? Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of people who are listening who maybe have sort of the worst hits real.

You know, you're talking about greatest hits, the worst hits real of just spinning with their wheels, trying to parse through these mistakes, and they just feel like they can't move on. They're just constantly beating themselves up over these mistakes. What advice would you give to those people to help them kind of? Move forward. to help process.

Well, your thoughts. You know, your thoughts are where we get into trouble because it's going to play that tape again and again of that mistake. Or if you were reprimanded or if you were corrected, you're going to hear those words again and again. And you have a choice. You can either hate that person who is reprimanding you.

or you can see that person's heart. People don't believe that, but I have been corrected many times. I've mentors in my life. I have given them the permission. to talk to me.

I've called them up for advice. And I didn't like the advice. When they told me, Okay, so this is what what you need to do. And this is how you're seeing this. And I want to scream and say, no, I'm not, even if I am, no, I'm not.

You misunderstand me. You don't understand the situation. You don't know what's happening. But let me explain this to you. Let me explain this.

Yeah, because if I could just explain it, if I can talk a little more, maybe you'd understand. Right. But here's the funny thing. I am the one who solicited their advice. I'm the one who pleaded with them to be a mentor to me.

And yet I'm upset with them.

So what do I do in those moments?

Well, I am a human being. At first my pride is hurt. You know, I am I am a little ticked.

So I walk around a little, you know, upset. People ask me, what's wrong? I'm tired. I'm just tired. It's just been a long day.

Yep. but I'm struggling up here. And then God in his way reminds me Does that person love you? Do they have the best in mind for you? Yeah.

Do you Did you s seek out their advice? Yeah. Then Why are you so angry? Yeah, absolutely. And then I have to swallow my pride.

It's about pride. I have to swallow my pride and say, Yeah, that it they they're really They really love me. And that's why They corrected me, or they said, You're looking at this wrong. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

That's a good check to think about who it is that you're talking to and know their heart. I think that's where having good, godly, trusted mentors comes in because you know that person. You know, even if those words might sting a little bit. That they have your best interest in mind and really if you're being honest They are right absolutely right And we appreciate all you guys who are calling in We're still getting the phone situation figured out So thank you. Don't hang up.

We'll be right with you as soon as we get that figured out But you know dr. Shaw a lot of these mistakes that we make we tend to take personal We tend to take it as though I'm I'm bad I'm not a leader. I'm not kind of like you said with Judas. He goes out on his own terms now. We don't think of ending it like permanently the way he did, but we still want to be in control of our own feelings.

And if we want to have a pity party, we'll dog on it. I'm going to do it. We're going to take a quick break, but I want to talk about why that's not the route to go down, especially as a leader. But you guys keep calling in 866-34TRUTH. We're going to be with you in just a minute.

Truth talk line. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Men, welcome back to Truth Talk Live. We are here live on Truth Network with our good friend, Dr. Abadan Shah, who is today's Truth Talk host.

And we're talking about mistakes. You know, all of us are going to make mistakes in the Christian life. Every single one of us, maybe except for me every now and then. No, I'm just joking, especially me. We're all going to make mistakes in our Christian life.

But listen, what do you learn? from your mistakes? More importantly, how do you learn? That's right. It's how you recover from a mistake.

And we've talked about the importance of good, godly mentors, having people in your life who can help you course correct, help you learn, and help you grow. That's really the whole game is not just camping in that mistake, but being better on the other side of it. That's right. You know, and our mistakes are not something that is just something to be where it's like, you know, I messed up, but maybe now I can do better tomorrow. Yes, that's true.

But how is this going to get me closer to God? How is this going to make me understand who God is better? Dr. Shah, where does God come in in our mistakes? I mean, if you think about it, you know, God has allowed.

That situation to happen in your life is not to hurt you, but to help you. Yeah, I mean, that's what, I mean, think about Peter that. situation that happened with him Denying Christ, it humbled him. It made him realize how much he needed God's grace. And so after the resurrection, Jesus came and saw him and he spoke to the disciples, he revealed himself to them.

But then he had to make a special visit to Peter, sat down with him. Do you love me? Do you love me? You know, the conversation that takes place. and there is a sense of humility.

God is that Peter who said, I will do this. I'm the boss. I'm the best.

Now it is Peter who sits there and says, Jesus, you know all things. Do you love me? His answer is ultimately is like, Lord, Yes, yes, but then he says, you know all the thing. What he's saying is You know how weak I am. Yeah.

You know what I'm struggling with right now. You know how much I'm hurt by the mistake that I've made, how much I'm trying to make things right. Right. And how I need your grace. I need you in my life.

Without you, I can't do this. Yeah. So if you want me to lead these disciples, I need you with me. Yeah. I remember when we talked.

Oh, go ahead.

Well, I was just going to say, in that conversation, you know, we mentioned earlier how to navigate around the pity party. Peter could have just camped and been like, Jesus, I messed up. I'm just terrible. I'm not worthy of being your disciple. I'm not worthy of being a follower of you.

He could have stayed there. But he didn't. How can we learn from that? And how can we then avoid the trap of a pity party ourselves? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, once you know who is correcting you, Peter knew that Jesus loved him. He knew that without a shadow of a doubt, that Jesus loved him and he had a task for him. Jesus correcting Peter was not just just a You can never do anything right, can you? No, it was not that. It was.

Hey, Peter. I'm going to Put you at the head of these disciples, they're going to look to you to lead them. There will come a day on the day of Pentecost where I'm not expecting Matthew. Or Bartolomew, or Thaddeus over there, to get up and speak, or even John and Andrew, you're going to get up and speak.

So, my correction to you is not to slap you down. My correction is to prepare you for that day, that powerful sermon. That's going to win It was not just 5,000, it was many more. Yeah. We'll get saved.

One sermon. You know, even Jesus did not have that success rate. Wow. That's insane. Man, that's so good.

I hadn't thought about that. I'm correcting you, but it's because I know the task that's ahead of you. I know what's coming up for you. Not just, I'm going to bring this up so you feel bad, or I'm going to kind of beat you over the head with your mistake. No, it's because I know what's in front of you.

I need you to get back up. And I think about all of the people who listened to that sermon, who saw Peter preach that sermon, and thought to themselves, like, why him? Why him? I could do that. I'm a better speaker than him.

And I'm into this whole new church thing, but. Golly, that could have been me. Peter's going to say something dumb. Yeah. I mean, I know Peter, and I know that.

You know Peter. I wouldn't do that. But not knowing that Peter had been corrected. Peter had been slapped down by God himself. Would Peter's sermon have been the same had he not made that mistake and been corrected?

No, I don't believe so. I believe all that had to happen for Peter to become that person who could stand up on the day of Pentecost and preach such a powerful sermon. Such a powerful sermon full of Old Testament references A sermon that was bold and yet full of grace. You know, you took with lawless hands. I mean, he's pointing to the Jewish people and even the dispersed people who are there in Jerusalem.

You took with lawless hands. According to God's plan. What a balance between Jesus was not an accidental death. He was not just a murder. No, he gave his life and yet you are responsible for it.

what happened to him. Wow, Peter Peter is the preach preach Peter is the theologian behind that message. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think about us when we look at our own mistakes, right?

Like we look at Peter and we look at this, like, okay, that's like not a rags to riches, but you know what I'm saying? Like, he had to go through that, he had to get that correction, and then he gets this. But I don't know if that's in my future. I don't know if God has me, you know, in his sights to do something huge like that. And maybe I don't even desire something like that.

And yet. I'm still paying for my mistakes. And right now, it feels really difficult to have to pay for this. But Michelle, what do you say to that person? I mean, just allow God's grace to heal you, reduce your pride.

Don't think for a moment that, man, this is fatal. It's not fatal. God has allowed, just like Peter, again and again, he was corrected. But the greater the correction, the greater the task.

So, some of the people, like I think about someone like Billy Graham. If you ever read his biography or autobiography, just as I am. If you've read it. Where does it begin? It begins with him.

Uh w um visiting Truman, I believe it's Trum Truman, I think it is, uh went to see him at the White House. And after that meeting. He decides to get with his f uh you know his his And kneel on the White House lawn and pray. That very, very famous picture. The very famous picture.

Mm-hmm. Truman did not like that because it was almost showboating. Mm-hmm. Did you know that Billy Graham begins with that story? Regarding his autobiography.

Not that I was born on a dairy farm and I went through this and I went through that, but look what God has done. And man, God is to be glorified. No, he begins with a horrible faux paul when it comes to. Presidents and how you protocol. Yeah.

Let me start this story off with a blunder. I mean, imagine the chance to even meet the president at all. Yeah. You know, you feel like you're going to be on your best P's and Q's because this could be a once-in-a-lifetime ministry opportunity. And to go to bed that night knowing the president is mad at me.

Yeah. He is tick. I've offended the president of the United States. And this is going to, and then you know, that story is going to live on in infamy forever. Yeah.

And I mean, of course, it did in Billy Graham's mind because very soon he realized, oh, that was a mistake. Because it was kind of using this wonderful visit, this opportunity given to him to shake hands with the president of the United States and sit across from him and pray for him, was being used as this is my moment. I am the evangelist of America. The American not realizing the president was not happy. Yeah.

And then later, and then the president kind of sort of rebuffed him a few times. Really? And then later on, Billy Graham had an opportunity to see him and he apologized. And Truman's words to him were: Well, I understand. You were not briefed properly.

It's not your fault. And so it was not like, oh, it was nothing. No, he did say, no, that should not have been done because you made it look like that you were going to pray for this White House to get right with God. That's how it came across. Yeah, of course.

Yeah. And so that talk about a miss. Talk about a, what's the word we're looking for, not mistake, but infraction. That's an infraction. Yeah.

That's an infraction. But go ahead. To lead your autobiography with that. And then Billy Graham, unlike anybody in the history of our nation, became. the the pastor of the president.

across across uh party lines. I mean, they would invite him to the house, White House, and sit with him and talk with him and and and even he slept in in the White House. I mean, you know, i i it was What an honor. Wow. And you think about how God still used Billy Graham, not only despite that mistake, but almost because of it.

You know, how he was able to come back from that and still lead because of that wisdom that he gained. That's right. You know, Dr. Chud, do you feel like? Because a lot of times we talk about God gives us wisdom through our mistakes.

But so, also, he gives us wisdom through other people's mistakes. And I guess what I mean by that is: if we were to go and visit the president one day, you wouldn't do that. No, thank you, Dr. Billy Graham in heaven, for teaching us not to pull that stun. Yes, well, why do we think, Dr.

Shane? Maybe we don't have time for this right before this final break, but if we can get it in, why do we think that it's got to be my mistake? I actually like making mistakes because I learned better from experience. I'm from the school of hard knocks, and that's just me. Where does that come from?

Most people. Are who say things like that. Are living with a safety net where their mistakes are not that costly. Wow. Oh, I bought that.

I'm sorry. W that was for a hundred thousand dollars.

Okay, yeah. I'm sorry. Sorry about that. Geez, my stomach sank when you said that.

Somebody has to pay the bill for the $100,000. Right. And judging from your attitude, it's probably not probably going to be you. And so you're looking at it as like, okay, I mean, yeah, I'm in a mistake. What do you want to do?

And so somebody's going to clean it up. We're going to move on. And so we need to realize that it is costly. That's right. And the older we get and the more we understand about life, you go, oh yeah, that is costly.

That is costly. Especially with our years, you know, as the older you get and the more time that you spend in ministry, you start to realize that the impacts of your mistakes last a lot longer than you think, and you have less time than you think.

Well, and I feel like ministry mistakes are often costlier than other mistakes. Certainly, you can make a financial mistake or you can make a relational mistake, but when it comes to ministry, I mean, mistakes can take on an eternal significance. Yes. What are some mistakes that people who are in ministry or maybe people who are ministry-minded, some mistakes that people tend to make and ways to avoid them? Understanding your people.

Okay. And of course, I can talk about your relationship with God. Um working hard praying Staying clean before God, all those things I'm assuming are happening.

So don't think for a moment that I'm saying, like, oh, yeah, you don't have to pray, you don't have to stay clean, repented before God, and full of the Holy Spirit, and keep your mind upon Jesus. That those are not. No, I am saying. that assuming those those points are being taken care of. What I want us to think is um more with our relationship with people.

Taking the time to get to know your people. is critical. What is it? Why does this person do what he does? Why do they think the way they do?

What is their background? What are the expectations?

Now it does not mean for a moment that you're going to meet everybody's expectations and cajole them and go along with bad behaviors and rude behaviors. No. At least you have an understanding of where this person is coming from. That's right. And you grow to appreciate that person more.

And you grow to appreciate yourself as a leader more, what God has called you to do. We're going to be right back after this final break, and we're going to talk about how to heal from these mistakes. You know, God has healing in store for us.

So stick around, we'll be right back. Truth. Yeah. Why? You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com.

Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. We're here with today's host, Dr. Abadan Shah. We're talking about one of the costliest things that happen in ministry, which is just making mistakes. And how do we learn from our mistakes?

Dr. Shah, if someone's joining us for the very first time right now, do you want to give a quick recap of what we talked about? Of course, mistakes are inevitable. There's a difference between mistakes and infractions. Mistakes are the simple things that you forget to do, as my friend described a little while ago.

Just things that, oh, yeah, I should have done that, my fault. I'll fix it. Infractions are where people get offended, feelings are hurt, people leave the business or leave the church, relationships break down. Those are infractions.

Now you are not responsible for every infraction that takes place because Many times that's not on you, it's the other person who did something that is wrong. But What should you do? Mistakes can be, I'm sorry. Infractions require A rethinking. You know, it requires forgiveness, requires grace.

And our focus is more on the infraction side of things. How can we now rectify this? If you have pride in your heart, or if you are a kind of person like, hey, I'm not wrong, and I'd rather walk out on my own terms, remember. The difference between a Peter and a Judas. That's right.

Peter. Made some Infractions. I mean, to deny your Savior, number one, to follow Jesus when He told you, do not come after me, and then to deny Him. vehemently with Cursing. I mean, that's an infraction.

That's bad. And yet, Peter humbled himself. And he was back with the disciples. And he found God's forgiveness healing and reinstating. He was once again reinstated to lead the disciples.

Judas, on the other hand, He committed an infraction, a horrible infraction, horrible. But he decided to walk out on his own terms. and kill himself, take himself out rather than seek The forgiveness and grace of his Jesus. Yeah. There's some sort of twisted, perverted, romantic idea that I want to live life and maybe even die my death on my own terms because I ultimately I did what I wanted.

I was the boss of my own destiny. And Dr. Shah, I think you just perfectly wrapped it up. It doesn't lead anywhere but destruction. You know, even if I've made mistakes, I'm going to own my mistakes and I'm going out with a bang.

Man, it's just not worth it on the other side. When holding those two disciples side by side, Peter and Judas both walked with Jesus, both made serious infractions. But it was in the response. It was in the recovery that we have the differentiation. We have this recovery from betrayal, and then we have this, you know, taking his own life.

Dr. Shah, how can we respond rightly when we have made mistakes, when we're in the wrong? Recognize that you and I are. Our Human beings, and we are prone to make infractions. That is in our nature.

It comes from sin. That's where it comes from. And so recognize that. Don't be ashamed or afraid to seek forgiveness. To say, I am sorry for what I've done.

Our culture struggles with that. Yeah. Because if I say I'm sorry, then, or please forgive me for that, then they will always treat me. No. It's okay to go, and the sooner you can do the better.

So, I'm very sorry for what happened there. Right? Seek that forgiveness. And then pray and ask God to help you heal and learn from that. It's not fatal.

Now there are things that can be fatal. Abuse or some money scandal or something like that. That yeah, those are those are tough mistakes that are or infractions that are very hard to recover from. But then there are other things that Yes, you can. It just requires humility.

It it requires a willingness to learn. And what if you make the same infraction again?

Okay. Well, seek God's grace and forgiveness? And humble yourself and jump back in. That's right. You know, going back to Peter for a moment.

he made another big infraction. And that was in uh with with Paul. Remember that? Yeah, I do. Paul was there with the Gentile believers.

And here Peter was sitting and eating with the Gentile believers. All of a sudden, some people from the church in Jerusalem showed up. And these were Judaizer type people. And what did Peter do? Like he didn't.

He slipped away and walked away from the Gentiles. Oh my goodness, what a horrible message to send to these young believers who are now coming into the body of Christ. Especially from somebody who's old enough to know better. He knew better. Yeah.

And what did Paul do? He confronted him out in front of all. He said, Oh, Peter, I'm not going to let you get away with this. This is a public sin. public infraction and it deserves a public uh uh a reprimand and he reprimanded him But how did Peter handle that?

If you notice later on in his epistle, He talks about Paul's letters. And he says Paul's letters Paul, that goober. No, he didn't do that. Mess him up if I see him. I wish he would.

He said just the opposite. He said, Oh, Paul, brother Paul, to the wisdom given by God to him. He has written some very weighty letters which ignorant people twist to their own destruction. I mean, he is talking about Paul with such High praise. Yeah.

Yeah. Peter, I mean, what an amazing. I want to get to heaven. I want to go and say, hey, just want to shake your hand and tell you. You're my hero.

We got some apologizing to do to Peter because we definitely give Peter up. Oh, man. You're a big old fisherman country boy who can't keep his mouth shut. That was one of the wisest men who ever lived. And through the course of making these infractions and being corrected, we have that on record forever in scripture.

Yeah, that's funny. It's one thing to be corrected and another thing to be put right into scripture. Yeah, that's right. Because when I go to talk to people, when I go talk to people, I meet them for the first time. I don't be like, hey, let me tell you all these times I got called out, all these times I got corrected.

And people will read about your corrections in their Bible songs. I just play like it never happened. I just came this way. But we have this Peter who, you know, in the beginning, when we meet him, he's this, he is brash. He is kind of, you know, out in front.

He is, he does have a very bold personality. And not that he loses that boldness, but he gets a sense of humility, of gentleness that's tempered through these different corrections. Absolutely. And God, you know, that's part of refining into who Peter was always intended to be. That's right.

I like how you said earlier, Dr. Shah, that there's hope for us. Yeah. Absolutely. Do you want to leave our listeners with that?

Absolutely. Nothing is fatal. As long as you're willing to humble yourself and seek God's grace, it's not fatal. It's not fatal. I have made some infractions in my life, but if I had believed the lie, and I believe it's a lie of the enemy that gets in our thoughts and just appeals to our pride, that, oh, I'm not.

No, if you're willing to humble yourself and say, okay. Gone? That happened. But if Romans 8:28 is true, not just about salvation, but also about my infraction that all things work together for good. Then God give me The the piece.

to know that you will use even that. to bring us closer as a as a leadership team or as a church. Give me the wisdom to know that you are working. Even this for good. Yeah.

And God does. That's right. That's right. And you know, for us who are living this life, just like Dr. Shah said, there's always going to be a mistake, and there's always going to be the next mistake.

I like to pretend that you know, I'm getting all the mistakes out of my way now in my 30s.

So though, my 40s, my 50s, I can just be the wise sage on the mountaintop, right? Like in the Hylian temple, that people come and I'm just going to give all my wisdom. I don't think it works. It's never going to happen. I'm going to be making mistakes, and so also you for the rest of your life.

But God's grace is always more. That's right. I always think about that, where God's grace is more than our worst mistakes. And Dr. Shah, as we're closing the episode, do you want to just give a quick, uh, a quick word on God's grace?

Absolutely. Seek it daily, live by grace, extend grace to the people around you. In those moments that we're where you're tempted to be just, I'm done with this person. Just walk away and think about how much others have shown grace to you. Right?

Also step into their shoes and what you'll find is Most of the time, I would say 99.9% of the time, your heart will move with compassion and go, my goodness. Yeah, considering what they've been through or what they're going through life. I need to show them grace. That's right. And and you will you will feel a sense of love towards that person instead of just hatred.

Yeah. I think the beautiful thing too is when we walk through those mistakes, when we've been corrected and when we experience that grace, just like you said, we extend that grace to other people, but we can also serve to help others avoid the mistakes that we've made. That's right. We can function in that mentor role.

So maybe we don't ever arrive and like not ever make mistakes ever again, but we do learn from our experience and then we help other people learn from our experience as well, help them avoid the mistakes that we've made. That's right. And I think the more time that you spend with the people in your life, these people who are closest to you, right? Maybe the people you offend. I've offended every single person in this room.

But you know, it's funny. We trust each other more because of it. You know, the people that I've always been careful with, I never really said too much. I really don't want to offend them too much. There'll always be that distance.

But I like what Dr. Shush said: the more that you get to know these people, the more you come to trust him and/or them so also with God. The more, you know, I've offended God, I offend God every single day. But. There's a trust.

I trust that his forgiveness is there. And so I don't go, and you same Dr. Shah, I'm sure you could say the same thing. I don't go headlong looking for mistakes. But I go boldly because I know that ultimately he's there.

That's right. Yeah, he's there. That's right. And learn about this. Read books on leadership, especially the kind that will help you learn from your mistakes.

John Max wrote a book called Falling Forward. Failing Forward? Yeah, I have it in my library. Great book because it teaches you to learn from those infractions and not feel like this is fatal. That's right.

God's grace is there. Turn to those mentors in your life and they will encourage you. They may correct you. Yeah. And you may get your feelings hurt, but get over it.

That's right. That's right. And know that they're correcting you because they love you. Yes. Know the heart of the person, the people that you're looking to.

I'm so thankful that we had this conversation today. And I hope it's been beneficial to those of you who are listening at home. It's been a wonderful journey through processing. mistakes. Through dealing with these things that happen to all of us.

You know, we can sit here and panic and worry about, I don't want to make a mistake. I don't want to make an error and just be paralyzed and not ever move forward. No, we learn from those mistakes. We encounter that pitfall. We stumble.

We fall, but we get back up and we learn and we're better for it. And it demonstrates God's grace to us. And we hope that more than anything else, that's what you've seen here today. Listen, we thank you. We're so sorry that the phones didn't work.

But next time we're on, we promise you we're going to take your calls. We're going to talk to you. We're going to learn your story. And more than anything else, we're going to share the gospel with you. Dr.

Shah, thank you so much for today's episode. Thank you so much. All right. That's right. We love you guys.

We'll see you next time on Truth Talk. Truth talk line.