You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We've got a great conversation on the books for you guys today.
But before we do anything else, we want to welcome our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome to the studio, and may I be the first to say happy birthday, Mark. Oh, thank you.
Happy studio birthday. Happy studio birthday. It's so good to see you. Quick reminder to everyone who's listening. Actually, I got a couple of reminders today before we start anything else.
I want to let you guys know that Dr. Abadan Shah is on Pray Radio. That time has moved back to 7 a.m. on the East Coast. There's a couple other things.
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Shah, I think it's time for one of our fan favorites. This is something that is backed by popular request. It's called Pick It Up. And preach. Ryan, you want to explain the rules of pick it up and preach to our new listeners?
Happy to pick it up and preach is one of my very favorite games. We introduced it into our student ministry and it has rolled over into the radio show as well. Pick it up and preach is a game where we are assigned a random object.
Okay. The more random, the better. And we have Roughly 10 seconds to come up with an object lesson that applies to our walk with God, our spiritual life, our understanding of who God is and who we are in Him, and the one who most accurately represents that object in their object lesson. Is the winner.
So I'm going to pass out the objects today. Ryan, this is yours. You're just listening to this. I was going to give that to Dr. Shah, but I figured, Ryan, I didn't want to.
I don't think he's played a whole lot of Halo. Dr. Shah, this is yours.
So I'm giving that as a fly swatter.
So I've given Ryan a little figurine of the Master Chief from the Halo franchise. If you know, you know. And Dr. Shaw has a fly swatter. Ryan, I'm going to give Dr.
I tell you what. I tell you what. I feel like you've got the harder one. Dr. Shaw, do you want to go first?
I can definitely do that. Let's do it.
So I have in front of me a fly swatter. What does a fly swatter represent? Oh, well, of course it represents um something to help you when flies come buzzing around or that one fly that man just cannot seem to leave you alone. And so you have to just like Get him, you know, finish him off.
Now, there are two applications there with this fly swatter. Of course.
Okay, I'm going for the win here.
Okay. One is, you know, when the anxieties of life come, when the worries of life come, you can just swat them away with the truth of the word of God.
So the Bible can be that fly swatter. Right. Right? That's a great one. But it can also be a different kind of application.
I'm giving y'all something good here, folks. There's pastors right now writing this down. This is going in a sermon this weekend. I didn't prep for the sermon this week. And what is the second application?
More negative. The fly in ancient times was not looked upon as being this, well, it was looked upon. as as a as a annoying nuisance, but There were armies who would have flied as their Kind of like an inspiration. For real. Not a mascot, but an inspiration.
Wow. Because think about it. If fly is determined, It keeps coming back. You can swap, you can like, you know, shush it away. It's going to come back.
Yeah. It's going to come back. So. Generals and commanders would tell their soldiers to be like a fly. Wow.
Persistent. Persistent. Keep going back in. Keep fighting.
Now, we think a great. inspiration would be like A lion, yeah, you know, or bear or some like a wolf. No, a fly, think about it, it just keeps coming back. Yeah, you can't, you can't really like even persistence, yeah, even if you kill one, there's always gonna be, you're never gonna live in a world without flies, yeah.
So a negative application would be Be like a fly. Yeah. Through Christ in you. Keep pressing on, brother. I gotta give it.
Great job, Dr. Shaw. Great job, great job. All right. You have to follow that.
There it is. Yeah, you got to follow that, my goodness. But I give you a little more time. I think, I felt like you were so enraptured in that. I don't know how much prep.
I don't know. I don't know. All right. Okay. So here we go.
So, this is Master Chief from the Halo video game franchise. John Sierra 117. That's right. Wildly popular games, media surrounding it. Master Chief is a Spartan.
He excels above other soldiers. He has unique abilities. He's kind of an enhanced soldier.
So when we have that relationship with God, we're no longer just human. We have the Holy Spirit of God living inside of us that takes us to an enhanced state. We can't just say, I'm just human. I'm only human. I struggle with sin.
No, we have that relationship through Jesus Christ. We become more than just human. The thing that makes Master Chief special is the AI that's in his hand. That's Cortance. That's right.
This little blue figure right here, who is also, I just noticed, in the Funko Pop. shape, which I I pay very attention to detail. Cortana advises Master Chief, and Cortana is is riding shotgun with him every step of the way. Wow. Just like the the presence of God through the Holy Spirit leaves it lives inside.
That's right. And is with us every step of the way.
Now in Several of the games, Master Chief has to fight to get Cortana back. That's true. And most, as Dr. Shaw's reminded us, most of the Christian life is coming back to God.
So you should always fight when life knocks you down. You should always fight to get back into a right relationship with God. Brother, I got to tell you. And where does Cortana live, man? Where does he live?
Where does she live? She lives inside of Master Chief in a chip that he inserts into his helmet. But for our applications, The Holy Spirit lives on us. And dwells within us. I got to say it.
I can't choose. I think.
Well, I'll choose. I'll choose. I'll give it to Ryan. Really? Because the students love that kind of application.
Sometimes there are student pastors who will get up there and give. You know, whatever they were learning in the seminary, a big lesson on some theology, which is great. But if you don't make it applicable, if it's not relatable, if it's not on the level of the games they're playing and the fun they're having in their lives, if it's not on that level, you've lost them. Amen.
So. I give it to Ryan, and here's your trophy. You can take the flag spotter. Fantastic. Our verse of the day today comes to us from Romans chapter 2, starting in verse 28.
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter, whose praise is not from men, but from God. That's right. You know, Dr. Shaw, for the past few months, we've been talking extensively about this relationship between the Jewish background believers and the Gentile background believers that Paul was writing to in Romans.
We've been camped out in Romans a lot. And, you know, even though this was in chapter two, this is a little earlier in the letter. I think it kind of illustrates this idea that Paul is talking about, that it's like, it's not about what's on the exterior or who your family is. It's this change that Jesus Christ brings into us. Absolutely.
You know, sometimes there are people who are hanging on, as they would say proverbially. hang on to the coattails of their family members, their parents, their grandparents. Granddaddy was a preacher or my family built this church and uh, you know, uh w we we man we're we're like generational Christians. You need to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That's right.
Amen.
In a sense, what Paul was telling the Jewish people here, and also the Gentiles for that matter, he was telling them that just because you are ethnically Jewish does not mean you're automatically the people of God.
Now, of course, you are people of God, as in you are called to be the light unto the Gentiles. God still has a purpose for the nation of Israel in the end of times. having said that every single person a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, has to come through Jesus Christ to be saved. That's right. So before the coming of Jesus two thousand years ago, They were waiting for his coming.
Everyone who waited for his coming When they sacrificed the animals, they knew. That goat was not the substitute for their sins. The Lamb was not the substitute for their sins. They knew that all this was simply a demonstration, a picture. To help them understand when the Lamb of God would come and shed His blood on the cross for them.
So, all that was done. With the hopes that they will Do these sacrificial systems keep the law? That one day will be fulfilled in Christ. And those who had that understanding are saved. And many were.
I mean, of course, the main leaders like Abraham and Sarah. Isaac and Rebecca. Jacob, Rachel, Leah. Their sons down the ages, people like Moses and David Solomon Go down to the prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, all the way down to Even Malachi, they all understood. With the coming of Jesus, John the Baptist understood.
Right. Simeon and Anna, even prior to that, they understood that this is the one that we've been waiting for. It's important, I think, that you mention that because I think a lot of people, especially like people who are against Christianity or maybe have a little bit of Bible knowledge, will always put that in your face as some sort of gotcha. Like, what about the people who were born before Jesus? Like, all of these Jewish people who were observing, they didn't have faith in Jesus.
But it's like, yes, they did. Yes, they did. That's exactly what Romans 2, that Ryan just read. And then later on, Romans 9 through 11 is talking about, right? Exactly.
If we can believe that we trust in a Savior who is behind us in the timeline of history, is it so inconceivable to believe that people would trust in a Savior who is forward in the timeline of history? Absolutely. Does this tie back to what you were talking about with that Christ time where people, once they have that trust in God, they're able to kind of spiritually slide along that? Absolutely. Absolutely.
I mean, last show we talked about the three different ways of seeing time. One is that linear sequential way of seeing time, where you see life as past, present, future, and then there's going to be the end of time in the future. And somewhere there, either the prophecies to Israel will be fulfilled. Or they have been You know, replaced by the church and then. The new heavens and the new earth begin.
Now we are in the timeless world living forever and ever. That's one way to see Life. Right. Time. Another way to see time, which has sort of been popularized since the 70s.
is Again, linear sequential time, past, present, future. But then, with the coming of Jesus, there has been an invasion of apocalyptic time into our time. This is where The powers, the cosmic powers of sin, death, flesh. has have been vanquished. And a new age has dawned.
Now we're still living in this world because sin is still there. Although it's been defeated, it's still around. Satan is still there. Flesh is still there. The world is still there.
So we're still living in this double life. But As Time moves forward. we're going to see either prophecies fulfilled to Israel or Sort of have been replaced by the church one way or the other. This, this. Linear sequential is going to end.
And that apocalyptic time that began with the coming of Jesus now takes over. And we enter into a timeless world. That's the second way to understand time. But I believe Ann Jervis' work, which I sort of introduced towards the end of last show, Paul. Hall in Time, and then her article that she had written several years ago really helped me understand.
that there's a third option. And the third option is the Christ time. When you and I are united with Christ, keep in mind when we get saved, sins are forgiven, we're going to heaven, the Holy Spirit is inside of us, we're part of the body of Christ, all that is wonderful. But something else happens. We are now one with our Savior.
Mm-hmm. We are connected to God.
Now we never become God. We're only connected to the humanity of Jesus, and through that humanity connection, we are now connected to God. And because we are united with Jesus, we are also united with what she refers to as Christ time, a phrase that is, or a designation not found in scripture, but I think it's very real. Because what it's basically saying is that through these eyes of faith, through your connection to Christ, you're able to see the Old Testament, the past, and also what's coming up in the future in times of prophecy. Not that you're having visions of the future, but you can.
Better see and better relate to God's overall plan through this timeline. That's right. And you're able to step into that time. That's right. It changes as well things that we experience in the Christian life because I loved that when you introduced this topic in your sermon, it was a day where we had communion.
And it's such a powerful reminder that we need to see commune as more than just: here's a cup with grape juice in it, and here's a Round wafer, or whatever you do in your church for communion. It's the spiritual significance of being in that upper room. With Jesus when he is giving the bread and the word. Right, it's not, it's more than symbol. Because I think a lot of times when we think about communion or we think about baptism or we think about these things that we take part in, we're.
content to just say, okay, this is a symbol, this is a reminder. There's a difference in symbology and a spiritual reality. Right, right. I think we talked about this a lot, Dr. Show, when we were going through Romans 8 when we were talking about sin and death and flesh.
These are not like ideas. These are not like just illustrations to help us understand our condition. These are forces that act against us. Yeah, cosmic forces. Right, exactly.
And I think this is sort of going along the same road. Not that this is a force, the timeline, but there's a spiritual reality that we're not considering. We're content to just say, this is all illustrative. This is all symbolic. All metaphorical figures of speech.
But it's more than that. It's more than that. And we are called to live in more than that. It doesn't mean that we become. Um Kind of like hermits or something, like completely removed from life and The cares of this world.
No, we still have to face problems in life. We still get sick. We still have relationship breakdowns. We still have accidents. We still have to pay our bills.
All these things don't go away. But because we are in Christ, we begin to live and see life the way Christ sees it. If not, why even talk about being in Christ? What does that mean? Right.
Yeah, it's not just my perception. Of the way that the world is. I'm in Christ. Yeah. Either that means something or it's just some.
Wishful thinking of a first-century Jewish convert. Right. Right. But what if it's not? I've entered into a new reality while still existing in this one, but because of Christ, I'm with Christ in a different reality.
Do you think Christians are scared to talk about that kind of thing or think about it too deeply because we still want to live in this world? Like, I want to be grounded and real and not seem like a weirdo. Yeah, maybe just living in a parallel time. Yeah, I don't want to be odd and be like, oh, I'll put my head up in the clouds or something like that. But here's the thing: you don't have to have your head up in the clouds.
We're not asking you to have your head up in the clouds. We're asking you to see life the way Jesus sees life. This life, but the way Jesus sees it. That's not having your head in the clouds. Is simply inviting you to see life from the way He sees it.
How does He see it? How does he see the salvation history of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, God's people through the ages? Or go even further back to Job? Go even further back to Adam and Eve. Uh and see how Oh, Enoch walked with God.
So, also, you should walk with God.
So, when you walk with Jesus, you can see. The footsteps of Enoch walking with Jesus.
Okay. Uh or Noah. He also was. Walking with God. In a very depraved, sin-sick world where there were You know, these mighty men of old.
You know, if you read the scriptures carefully, it almost seems like they were, some of them were half man and half. Fallen angels. Imagine living in a world like that. Tell me what you think about this, Dr. Shaw.
So you're you're mentioning Let's take these Old Testament characters, especially the further back you go, you see more of a direct connection. Like Adam literally walked with God, walked around with God. Adam and Eve, yes, every day in the cool of the day. Enoch, Noah, these are men who walked with God and talked with him. And it says, like, Moses talked to him face to face.
Okay, you get further and further along this timeline, and now you get to us today where we. there's a separation, and I don't mean like a spiritual, but like Maybe kind of, we don't like walk around physically and talk with God. Is what you're saying about the Christ time is what they had. You also have. Absolutely.
I mean, that's the whole point. Enoch walking with God. How do you think he did? Because he lived in Christ's time. Mm-hmm.
Even though Christ had not been incarnated, he was living in the Christ time, walking with Jesus.
So We often wonder, it's like, what did what does that mean that he walked with God? Did God come like walk like appear and then they together take walks? Or did he know? By faith. that the pre-incarnate Son of God was with him, who would one day come and die for him.
And my answer is yes, he saw the preincarnate. Jesus The second person of the Godhead walking with him. And he found that to be more real than the real people around him in the world. I'm understanding. I think I'm getting it.
We, even though we are in Christ, we are Christians, we still Feel a separation that doesn't need to be there. Like God is in heaven, He's not of this world. I'm on this life, and I need to pass through to be with him. And the Christ time is saying that no, no, no, you are connected. What Noah had, what Adam had, what Moses had is much realer.
Than you're giving it credit for. Yeah. One thing I would also add is sometimes the pre-incarnate Christ appeared and manifested himself to say. Abraham. Right?
As he was in his tent, these three came up. And God renewed his promise that he and Sarah would have a son. And then he goes down towards Sodom and Gomorrah, as you know the story. Abraham stands there and makes this deal with God. What if they're 50, 45, 40?
You know, he goes down that list. There was when Jacob wrestled. with the angel of the Lord. I would say that's the pre-incarnate Jesus.
So there are times that God Himself, the second person, manifested Himself physically. Before these people, and they interacted with them on a very personal, real basis. I don't believe that happens now anymore. Um why? By faith, we need to just receive all the revelations that have been given to people of old and draw the principles from them.
So we don't need. A incarnation of Jesus in some form today.
Okay. So, before his coming, yes, there were times that he appeared here, there, and others, like Manoah. Right. You know, he asked that question: Who are you? What is your name?
He said, Why do you ask my name? Since it is wonderful, which is also. One of the names of Jesus. His name shall be called Wonderful. Counselor, mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
So In that sense, There was something Very visible that they experience that we don't. You've talked before about Job as well, kind of remarking that he will see his Savior. That's right. Is is there is there a significance between faith and sight? Between seeing, like believing and seeing, what is the relationship there?
Yeah, that's a great question. I think Hebrews talks about that. Faith is the evidence of things, substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. That's faith.
So by faith, They saw all this. And sometimes it was just a real presence. We're not talking about that. We're talking about when they saw through the eyes of faith that God was very, very real. We as Christians today are.
Either hesitant or uneducated or biblically illiterate that we do not Feel competent to exercise that faith to say, Christ is with me, He's walking with me, He is speaking to me. I can see his presence in the midst of this very difficult time, or in that hospital room where Uh it it just felt so low and so So alone. And but then in that moment I felt the presence of Jesus. I knew he was right there with me. We don't do that because it's like, oh, I don't want to be looked upon as some.
Crazy wacko, you know, who is seeing like a picture of the Virgin Mary or the statue that begins to cry or something weird. You know, I don't want to be like that. No. That's a whole different problem. Yeah, I think a lot of times, I think a lot of times what we say when we say, I have faith or this is my faith, is like, even though things are hard, I'm still going to call myself Christian.
I'm still going to profess that God is good. But there's this, I think there is this absence of belie or even conviction. Yeah. That, or maybe not conviction, but maybe just belief that I know this is true. Most of the time, I think when people say faith or I believe, it's really just like, I hope that this is real.
I hope that this is true. Or I'm going to act as if it is. Right. I'm going to, I'm going to sort of trick myself into following along with this. But for.
Faith is, like you just said, Dr. Shah, is seeing things. It's the evidence of things that are not seen. It's operating in a world where you can trust in more than just what your eyes can input. And evidence is a strong word because evidence is valid.
It's not like evidence. By definition, it can be ignored. You can't ignore the evidence.
Well, if you read the whole chapter of Hebrews, chapter 11, you will see God gives example after example. I mean, You know, I believe Paul wrote the letter. But it doesn't matter who wrote it. It was apostolic.
So It starts with Abel. By faith, Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous. God testifying of his gifts.
So, how did Abel know that God was testifying of his gifts?
Somehow God gave him that peace. He did not have a big check mark come up on that lamb that he offered. Or a receipt fell from heaven.
Somehow he testified of his gifts, and through it, he being dead, still speaks.
So, has Abel spoken to you?
Now, of course, I'm not looking for Abel to speak to me, I'd rather Jesus. Right. But what is Abel how does Abel speak to me? Through the Old Testament. Mm-hmm.
Through the Christ time, more specifically. But when I'm going through a difficult time where it is unfair because you're doing what is right. Abel speaks to you and says No, God going to give you a witness that that you are righteous, you're doing what is right. God is testifying of your gifts, how you're serving Him in the midst of difficulties and false accusations. And hate.
God is approving what you're doing. And there's a difference. Correct me if I'm wrong in this, but there's a difference in saying that God is spiritually doing that for you versus saying God wants you to remember that. He just wants you to remember what happened, and that's how He speaks. Yeah, but I mean, He being dead still speaks.
Yeah. Is there a time? I know we're running short on time. Is there a time in your life, Dr. Shah, that you can say without like.
We can always look at things like that was God moving, that was God moving. But is there a time that stands out to you to where you can say, man, I saw God there? Yeah, um there are many, many. Illustrations I can give from my personal life. But one was when I went through the book Experiencing God with Henry Blackerby.
I know people have different opinions on that book or that Bible study. This was back in the 90s. When I first heard about it, I was like, eh, yes. Who knows what is, you know, whose Bible study this is and why, what's the big hype around this book? And then I went through the Bible study myself.
experiencing God with Henry Blackaby and Of course, there is no such thing as a perfect Bible study other than the Bible itself. Right, that's right. But as I was walking through that study, I felt like God was speaking to me very, very clearly. and what he wanted me to do in my life. And I was in seminary at this time.
So I was already called in the ministry, but I could tell God becoming very clear: this is what I want you to do, this is where I want you to head, and I want you to trust me, and I want you to plant yourself and don't panic, and don't try to compete with people around you. Don't try to have the lifestyle they have. Don't do any of that. Trust me, I'm going to use you. That Was very, very, very helpful and a marker in my life.
I want to say this was 1997. When I went through that Henry Blackabee experiencing God Bible study. And I was like, man. Thank you, Lord. That's such a good reminder for us to be able through eyes of faith that see beyond just the physical to see what God is doing and throughout history to see ourselves as connected to both Jesus and to our spiritual predecessors.
That's exactly right. We live in this timeline, you know what I mean?
So it's not something that we're removed from, these are not theoretical. theological, philosophical, uh What you say? Just abstrandering, yeah, yeah. This is real life. Yeah, absolutely.
Guys, such a good conversation. Make sure you join us right here to continue this conversation on tomorrow's episode, same time, same session. That's right. Big thank you to our sponsors, especially LaBlue, Ultra Pure Water, and Mighty Muscadine. We're very appreciative of their partnership.
And like we said at the top of the episode, if you would like to be a sponsor for the Clearboot Today Show, write in and let us know at contact at ClearBTodayShow.com or 252-582-5028. Don't forget to subscribe on all of our podcasting platforms, and you can always support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. John, what do you want to plug as we close this? Just definitely want to encourage you guys to be tuning in every single day, 7 a.m. on Prey Radio throughout all the month of October.
Prey is doing a lot of analytics. They're getting our demographics all streamlined.
So we want to communicate to them that you guys want to hear this more and more and more.
So make sure you check out Dr. Abadan Shah, 7 a.m. every single day on Prey Radio. That's right, we love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear Read Today.
