You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Studio.
Got a great conversation. We've been having great conversations all week. And guess what? We've got another one for you today. That's right.
Right here in the studio with Dr. Abadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. That's right, you guys can give it up for Dr. Shah. Welcome.
Thank you, studio audience. Thank you, studio audience. Your checks will be under your chairs. Dr. Shah, how are you, my friend?
I'm doing well. Is there one under my chairs? Actually, there's a. If you look, there's the keys to a Porsche. Oh, Oprah.
And you get a car. And you get a car. And everybody gets. Like, Oprah would give out cars to all the studio audience. You think that was real?
I don't know if it was cars, but they gave out um Bags of this and and Set of books or whatever. I mean, it wasn't. I don't think there were cars they were giving out, but they were. I remember everyone used to joke that they got a car. I don't know if she actually did it, but everyone used to joke, like, you get a Porsche, you get a Porsche.
Yeah, yeah. No, it wasn't that. I think that day is done. That day is done. And I'm so glad it is done.
Was it obnoxious? Like daytime TV, stuff like that happen? Oh, are you talking about just Oprah, or are you talking about just all daytime TV? Daytime TV. Daytime TV, but I mean, I guess specifically Oprah, yeah.
Oprah was a very talented person, no doubt. She is very confident. She has really mastered the art of talking to people and really. holding not just her own, but also Really being an authority in that conversation. She's really done very well with that.
Because it's not easy to sit down and have a conversation and still come out on top, and people love you. But Then there are things that Oprah did that was an agenda, that was a way to. promote a certain Way of seeing life and morality and ethics that I feel like it really impacted a lot of people for the negative. Yeah, I can imagine. A lot of uh how do I say this, housewives who were watching were definitely impacted with Oprah's view of the world, Oprah's view of God, Oprah's view of religion.
Oprah's view of morality and None of those were good. That's wild. I think you're 100% right. That era of TV definitely captured that demographic. Oh, yeah.
And sort of painted the worldview. Like, this is where not only I'm tuning in for entertainment, but I'm tuning in for information on how I should see the world around me. Yeah. How should I live? How should I see the world around me?
How should I vote? I mean, that was also coming through Oprah. And so I don't think that was very healthy. Yeah. And I think we're, in some ways, Seeing the repercussions of Oprah's show in today's world, I think you might be right.
Yeah, well, luckily, we've got a great palate cleanser in this show. Oh, I like that America. I will say this: there is a segment that I've been wanting to bring back for a long time. This segment has sort of been a little bit missing, but fellas, welcome to the gripe. Welcome to the gripe, Vine.
Welcome to the Gripe Vine. If you're new to our show, this is a segment we used to do all the time. Every Tuesday, we would do it where we'd find something in our life to just those little things that get under your skin.
Something that I need an outlet to gripe about. A little gripe. But lately, things have been pretty good. Things have been good. Things have been great at Clearview.
Things have been good at home. Things have just been good all around.
So there hasn't been a whole lot to gripe about.
Well, this morning. I got it. I got it. All that changed. Gavin's in school now, so we're getting up at like 6:30, 7 in the morning.
This morning, I was awoken. At six, I have a real good dream. Like, I was dreaming real, you know, those dreams where you're like, I could live in this. Were you parkouring? I wasn't parting.
I don't even remember what I was doing now, but I remember I remember waking up and feeling disappointed, like, oh man, it's still dark outside. And now there's no point in rolling over and going back to sleep. I felt something wet and cold on my arm. Oh, my God. Like, I was like, oh, I drooled a little bit.
And so I was like, oh. That's not drill. That's that's all that's really wet. And so I was like, Ellie? Oh, Ellie, you drooled on my arm.
And she was turned the opposite way.
So I was like, That's not what's happening. But again, I'm like dead asleep. I'm like just coming out of sleep.
So none of the thoughts are coherent.
So I'm like touching my arm. And it's solid. It was a slug. Oh. Bed.
I was like, and like, my brain went from like really sluggishly asleep to like high alert. There's a killer. No pun intent. I'm sorry, no pun intended. No, no pun intended.
I didn't even catch that. No, like I was in like active flight, fight or flight mode, and I just took it. And I didn't mean to. I meant to sling it at the wall. I slung it at Ellie.
Oh, no. And it went past her face and onto her pillow. And I was like, Ellie, Ellie, there's a slug in the bed. And she, she got up and flung it into the floor when she got up.
So I was like, this just got really chaotic. That's not the way you want to be woken up. No. In the morning. Not it.
Especially on the first week of school for Gavin, for your first child. I was so furious, but it was that kind of anger. And I know, like, as dads, you guys get this because I remember my dad used to get like this. You're so angry, but you have no one to be angry at. Yeah.
It's nobody's fault. It's just life. It's just life. Just furious for no. I mean, you can't take it out on anyone or anything.
You're just like, I don't like them. Like, I'll come home as summer is the worst. I see them outside because it's hot and it's wet. And they're on the outside of the house or on the door. And I'm like, oh, gross.
And I'm revolted, but it's like, eh, whatever. I'll just get some salt, sprinkle. On it, whatever. But when they start getting in the house, now you got a problem. I have a problem, definitely.
Well, I hope the rest of the day went better for you. It went pretty good. We came here, we ate a good lunch, we did a Spanish class. That was good. See, see?
So, the day's been pretty good. How about for you? Very nice. Good day. Day's been very good.
Very good. We're rolling through the week.
So, today is kind of midweek for us.
So, we got a lot to do to get ready for the weekend, but things are going well. Digging deep tonight. I'll be praying for you. Thank you. Absolutely.
How's your week been so far? It's been very good. Thank God for that. God is faithful. God is good.
And I'm grateful. Before we continue, I do want to remind you guys that there is another podcast on the that's not on the horizon, it's here. The lighthouse. Weekly devotions with Dr. Abadan Shah.
Every single Saturday, a new episode drops at 8 a.m. These are just weekly devotions, something to keep you in the loop with God, right?
So every single day.
Now, a Clearview podcast drops. We've got Clearview today, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, the Lighthouse, and Sunday, guess what? Sermons by Dr. Abadan Shah. But we wanted the Lighthouse to be a weekly pick-me-up for all you guys who listen to Dr.
Shah's messages, especially those of you who don't go to Clearview, that little boost that's going to get you through up until Sunday.
So we want you guys to go and subscribe to that. That's on. Amazon. That's on Spotify. That's on iTunes.
And it's on our website, clearbc.org. That's right. Go ahead and subscribe. Get your daily dose of not only the word, but your daily dose of clearly. And it's only $40, so why wouldn't you?
That's true. No, it's free. It's free. Free podcast. It's free.
I would say every single thing we do here is free. The only thing, no, that's not even true. I was going to say the only thing behind a paywall is pray, but that's free too. Yeah. You can get all of Dr.
Shah's exclusive content on Pray on the free account. There's no reason for you not to. That's right. Our verse of the day today is coming to us from John chapter 11, verse 26. And whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
Do you believe this? That's the question, isn't it? One of the things that you taught me, Dr. Shah, is that belief is a core theme in the Gospel of John, that like more so than the other three gospels, that John is very hyper-focused in, hey, you better believe. That your belief in Christ, not just I believe that he exists, but I believe that he is Lord, is really central to his.
Look, Jesus often asked questions of his audience, and we don't do that enough in our conversation. Conversations. We don't do that enough in our sermons. And I try to put that into my sermons more and more, which is asking the audience a question and then letting them think about it. Think about it.
How to respond. But this question that Jesus posed to Martha, I believe it was, about The resurrection. about j uh Lazarus's death and you know, I am the resurrection of the life. Do you believe this? Do you believe this?
The one who lives and believes will never die. Do you believe this? And what What I want us to think about is, again, we can talk about resurrection, we can talk about belief in Christ, we can talk about the miracle of Jesus raising Lazarus from the grave after four days being in the grave, we can talk about Mary and Martha's faith, especially Martha's faith that was shaken. But what I want us to Doist Look at this a little bit differently. Which is The questions you ask are very important.
Because if you ask the wrong question, you will get the wrong answer. True. If you ask a question like I believe Martha asked, or Mary asked, I believe, is why didn't you come? You know, if you had come. It was kind of a question, you know, why didn't you come?
She didn't Phrase it like a question, but it was intended to be a question. Give me an explanation of why you didn't come. Right, right. You're blaming your situation, blaming somebody's delay.
So think about the question that Jesus asked Martha. He said, He who believes in me, though he may die, he shall live. And he who lives and believes shall never die. Do you believe this? Do you believe this?
So what do you think about me? Right. That's what Jesus was asking Martha. It was that Martha was asking the wrong question to get the answer that she actually needed. Yes, yes.
Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
So explain to me why you didn't come. Right. Yeah. You call yourself the Messiah and also our friend. Like, why wouldn't you show up?
Why didn't you show up? Often the question we ask in the midst of our trials: God, why are you not friends? Fixing this problem? Why are you not handling this problem? And I have to remind myself.
to make sure I Restate that question because I'm going to get the wrong answer.
So we just did, and I mentioned this on yesterday's show too. We just did a pretty lengthy series here on the Cleavy Today show about alcohol. And I would say that's, and maybe you can kind of speak to this, that's one of the most popular wrong questions that Christians ask: Can I drink? Whereas we're not reluctant to say yes or no, but it's just so far from the point that going down that rabbit hole of are you allowed to really is it's pointless because we're we're always going to arrive back at the true point. Yeah, the better question I would be is, should we drink?
I think that would be a better question. Yeah, I feel like a lot of times when you follow that line of questioning, are we allowed to, it usually ends up in a pointless place. Yes. Am I allowed to? How close can I get to this without sinning?
You're going down the wrong trail. Yeah. And the better question would have been, should we drink? And there the answer is. No, because you have a lot more to lose.
than to win. Should you drink? No, because you may cause someone to stumble. Another question, should we same question? Another answer is: no, you're called to be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.
That's right. And the priests in the Old Testament were told not to drink. Aaron and his sons were told do not drink. We are now the priests before God.
So you need to be sober-minded. How can you be sober-minded if Temporarily, your mind is not there. Just like you woke up this morning, temporarily, your mind was not there. I was not, no, I was not there at all, but something snapped me too real quick. Yeah, sobered me up in a way.
You know, as a pastor, Dr. Shah, Nicole kind of mentioned this yesterday, but people will come to you for those answers. And a lot of times, when they're coming just for an answer, they end up asking the wrong question: Can I drink? What do you think? What's your opinion?
Please tell me that I can drink, or some other thing. And so, you know, what Nicole mentioned yesterday was you want to walk people to where they're discovering the answer. Yeah. You don't want to just say, Hey, Here it is. You want it because it's more powerful, I would assume.
If you lead them to a place where they're Um Where they're discovering the right question and therefore the right answer. Is that a difficult process to walk people through? It is. You have to really be sharp. You really have to be on top of your game.
Uh prayerfully And Think through the person, even though you haven't had a conversation with them, you should at least have some idea what is going on. You don't walk in cold. I often tell our team, you know, plan out ahead what you're going to say. Be very Deliberate about it, be very intentional about it, know what you're going to do.
So, also, when you go into a counseling situation, you need to be somewhat aware of what is happening and then somewhat. Draw out a principle that's going to help them if you had only 30 seconds with them. What would you say to them? What if you did not have time for the whole interview? What if you did not have time for the entire counseling hour?
What would you tell them if you were about. To be jumping on a plane and leaving.
So I think through that. Yeah. It is difficult when somebody comes in cold and says, I don't want to say anything. I want to just meet with you and then tell you. I prefer not to.
But sometimes it happens.
So, in the first few moments, I'm thinking through what is the real issue going on.
So, those moments where they're kind of laying everything out, that's the critical moment where you're parsing out, okay, what is their desired goal? What is it they're trying to get to? There's not really a situation where I would assume. I can just tell them. This is what it is.
Because you want to walk them. I don't know if you. Did you guys ever see that movie Inception? I wouldn't assume you would ever take actual life advice from Hollywood, but in this case, one of the themes of that movie is: an idea is only really going to stick if they have it. And so you want to walk them to that point.
That's true. That's a cardinal principle in good, good counseling, which is you help them find the solution. Right. Not give them the solution. Right, right, right.
So. Do you have people who come to you who just straight up don't want that? Just tell me what to do and I'll go do it.
Some people come just for confirmation, as we talked about in yesterday's show.
Some people come for just tell me what to do. And some are in between somewhere there. And so the ones who just want me to tell them what to do. Hi. Yeah, I I do tell them.
Because people are different.
Some people Need a little bit of pushing.
Some people need a little bit of pulling.
Some people need a little bit of patience.
So you have to kind of decide what is it this person needs from me? Should I give them a push? Or should I give them a pull? Or should I be a little patient with them? What do we need to do?
So. Um You have to really be on top of your game. Pastor, again, pastors are supposed to be Christian, but what I mean is like a person who's operating from a biblical worldview, from a worldview where Christ is our Savior and our King. I try to pray over. Every situation.
Yeah. And then say, Holy Spirit, help me. What do I say here? Yeah. Helping people make that journey, make that navigating that path toward where they need to be, even helping them see things that they may not want to realize about themselves, but kind of walking them through that process.
And we had a moment like that in a message recently where you kind of walked the congregation through the process of realizing there's no such thing as a healthy family. And we kind of pride ourselves on this idea, like my family is this and my family is this ideal that people aspire to be. And my family's held up as a paragon of what families ought to be. But in reality, and you've mentioned this in the message, none of us are a healthy family. We all come from dysfunction.
Well, that's sort of what you were saying. Like the goal is wrong. You know what I'm saying? If you ask the wrong question, you're going to get to the wrong answer.
So it's like, how do I get to a healthy family? And the world is certainly glad to tell you, oh, you do this and you do this. By this 12-step program. Yeah, yeah. Take a break from church.
Spend more time with your families. Take a break from all these responsibilities and just pour time into them. Then you'll have a healthy family. But you've asked the wrong question.
So, of course, you're going to get to the wrong goal. And also, some people have the idea that I don't want my family to be weird, like too Christian, or too spiritual, or too church, church, church. And what I often find is that they have deeper problems. They have huge problems that they are trying to cover up because they don't want to look weird before the world. They don't want to look like all the churchy Christian, straight jacketed family kids and I'm like I would take that over.
what the reality is in your life, because the reality is a mess. 100%. You're not happy. You're disappointed. You're hurt.
You're embarrassed. You're angry.
So. And you are like, but I don't want them to become too Christian, too, too, too, like, you know, I want my son or my daughter to be. Oh man, yeah. Conservative. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. I'll go to church. I love Jesus. But I want to be one of the boys at the party.
When it's time to turn it off, I want to be a kid. I want my girl to be like, man, she is just this person that everybody wishes their daughter was like that. The sorority queen. Oh, yeah. Yes.
But at the same time, She's also very loved Jesus and just has a heart for the world. But at the same time, she's fun and party. I mean, Okay. I hope that really works out for you because, in reality, it never, ever, ever works out because there's a principle. That's right.
And the principle is: you can't serve two masters. Great point. And I'm so sorry that somebody's. you know, warped understanding of how to raise a Christian family messed you up. Because they are here trying to be the healthy family, and they are also living in delusion because they're trying to be legalistic or they're trying to have the everybody's perfect and we're perfect and you're perfect, and we're all perfect.
And that's not the reality either. Do you think that those warped senses of like a delusional This delusional idea of we're going to have the healthy family. Do you think that's what leads to the dysfunction? Or do you think the dysfunction is there brought in by like just sin and everyday. Flaws, and then we cover it up with this ideal.
Well, bottom line is we're all dysfunctional. You know, that's one thing we need to do: first, abandon the idea of the healthy family. There is no such thing. It's not even that it's the wrong goal, it's that it does not exist. It doesn't exist because Adam and Eve were not healthy.
Ken and Abel not healthy. And I know the older generation prided themselves on being the healthy family, but that involved sweeping things under the rug. That involved pretending that bad things didn't happen. And that we're fine. We're fine.
I don't know. You're making a big deal out of it. We're fine. Everybody's fine. And they were not fine.
So then a generation came that said, we're going to expose all. The problems, and we're going to sweep every we're going to dust everything right back out in the floor.
So we don't talk about this often on the show because we get tons and tons and tons of comments. Most of them are good.
Some of them are not so good. But I do notice, Dr. Shao, when you said that, I do notice that typically Gen Z millennials that when they write into the show, it's like, hey, love the sermon. Me and my wife listen every day. God bless your ministry.
The people who push back are usually older. They're usually in their 50s, 60s, 70s. And they're like, I don't know what any of this. This man is not tough. And it's usually those older people who don't want to confront that fact.
Yeah. Yeah. But then my real question. My question to them is How is it really in your family? Right.
If it was you and God sitting back, forgiven me, I don't exist, I'm not that important. How is it you would answer if God said, How's your family? Would you lie to Him? Because he knows everything. He already knows.
He knows it all. Shoot, that's worse than lying in counseling. Would you, at that point, say, God, it's not good? Yeah. I'm disappointed.
Things didn't turn out the way I was hoping. I tried to do everything right. But it was not. And We were misled, or I was misled, or I was trying to create a persona that didn't work out. Whatever.
What would you say to God? Because He knows it all. That's right. Because if at any point in time, you say, Oh, we're perfect. God will say, No, let me show you a clip.
This is what happened 20 years ago. This is what happened two years ago. This is what happened last night. What are you going to do now? Do you think that comes from I want to look perfect for other people, or I don't want to admit to myself that I'm not perfect?
I think somewhere they got the wrong idea of what. A family should be. You know, they got the wrong idea, and or a message, or a book, or a conference, or a Sunday school teacher, or a pastor, somebody communicated to them: you need to be a healthy family. And if you just do this, this, this, this, this, you'll be a healthy family. Do you think they see dysfunction as a death knell?
Like that's the death, like that's the death of our family?
Well, I'm not going to say it's the death of the family. They just see it as something. To avoid. Yeah. But I guess, like, if someone were to say, Hey, your family's dysfunctional, I would be like, Yeah, sometimes.
They have this sense of shame, like it's an unlike it's an unfixable problem, I guess. Or it's just shameful to have. I would say they would feel like they failed. Gotcha. Mm.
They failed, and they, and you don't get to do life twice.
So, this is. the biggest mistake they made. And I had to confirm that years ago, um, growing up. You know, are we a dysfunctional family, or are we a resilient family? Because that's the goal.
Healthy family is unrealistic. Dysfunctional family is the reality, but you don't stay there. The goal is to become resilient, which is how do we bounce back from the traumas of life? Because we're going to go through trauma. We're going to go through...
Crisis How do you come back? and by the grace of God, For the glory of God how can you move forward? And still allow God to work all things together for good. Do you think we can answer that now, or is that its own episode? I think I think we can begin.
We've got like seven minutes if you can. It will require more time.
Okay. How do we begin that process? We've acknowledged that we're dysfunctional. Healthy families don't exist. We are dysfunctional people and we are dysfunctional families.
What is that process? What's the first action step? Where does that trajectory lead us to resiliency?
Well, Nicole talked about it in the last show when she said, you know, we need to seek professional help individually, as a couple, as a family, seek professional help.
Now, I don't know, that sounds like, oh, we're going to be in therapy. I mean, that's the last thing I imagine our family doing is going to see a counselor. Must be, we must have really messed up. I don't want to admit that I've messed up to myself, let alone someone else. There is a place for actually making an appointment with someone like Nicole.
You know, we have at Clearby, we have lighthouse counseling. You can come and make an appointment with her and talk to her and all that. Or. Be part of a small group. Be part of a Sunday school class.
And hopefully, that class has a good teacher, and a class has a good support system where you can. Find that There are people there who care about you and will love you and encourage you and hold you accountable as you're facing the difficult time. Not having anything like that, whether actual sitting in a Room with a counselor or being with a group of people who are your people, who help you go through life. It's a huge mistake. Not having anybody and thinking, I can B fine just by myself.
Or even a family, as Nicole mentioned in our message a week ago. Even a family that is isolated. Like we're together, but we're not connecting with people, is also a family that is headed towards dysfunction. And, you know, speaking of lighthouse counseling, you know, Nicole also, I didn't realize this until very recently, but Nicole is also doing sessions over Zoom.
So if you're not, if you're not in North Carolina or even not in the Triangle area, you can always email us, info at clearviewbc.org. Info at clearviewbc.org. You can call the church office, 252-438-8433. In-person is always preferable when it comes to meeting and counseling, but if that's not an option, if distance is a factor, Zoom is certainly a possibility. Yes, if you listen to the show and you're like, you know, I definitely love all the wisdom that Dr.
Shah and the team give out, but I want that personal touch, you know, that's an option. And we've been working, and you guys especially have been working very hard over the last three years to make that an option. Yeah, because there's a great need, a huge need for. Not just Christian counseling, but biblical counseling. And when I say biblical, I'm not talking about neuthetic counseling.
Biblical counseling in the sense of taking the Word of God as our foundation, but learning from psychology or counseling or therapy that's in the world, but filtering everything. Through the Through the word. That's right. Through Old and New Testament. Absolutely.
And that's what helps us. Uh take the best of what the world has. But throwing away everything that is contrary to what The Bible says. That's where true help comes from, is where it is from God's word.
So if we filter everything through God's word, we'll be left with the best parts of those psychological systems that have been developed or those strategies that people have put forward. But it's all done through God's Word as the lens and the framework.
Well, that's our identity as Clearview. You know, of course, we're a Christian church, but our core value is that we're a Bible-believing church. Yeah, because Christian church, you know, of course, anybody can take that word, and of course, we know what that word means, but it's become so, you know, are all of these different other factions, Christians that don't follow the Bible, that's what they'll say. But to say that we're a Bible, a biblical counseling arm is a very, very powerful thing. Very distinct.
I think you're right. There's a huge need for that. Yes, that's right. Yeah. So, you know, just kind of mentioning a couple more things right here, your goal should be to become a resilient family.
Of course, seek help, build family resilience. And maybe we can talk about this further, maybe bring Nicole back on the show. Absolutely. You know, how to strengthen your family's belief system, which is. There's a term in counseling right now.
It's called meaning-making. Means as you're going through counseling, you have to ask the right questions. What is God trying to teach me? What does God want me to learn? How does God want me to respond?
Because people are watching me. What is it that's happening here? You have to really think about these things. Don't just act or react to people or situations or even yourself, but think about what is God doing? Why is this person doing this?
Why is this situation going this way? What is God doing? interject God into your problem. Interject him, bring him into that problem and say, What is he doing? What does he want me to learn?
Because he is not unaware. That's right. He's very cognizant of what's happening. He's very involved.
So the question is, God, what is it? What is it? And I'm submitting my will. And where I cannot submit my will, we ask that your Holy Spirit will make me submissive. to what you have for me.
Amen. That's right. Guys, make sure you tune in tomorrow. We're going to continue this conversation here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible.
Don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast from. You can also support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. John, what do you want to close with today? All of you fine folks over at Pray.com. We are getting ever closer to 50,000 followers.
We're going to have a big celebration episode when we do. And don't forget about our new podcast, The Lighthouse. These are weekly devotions with Dr. Abadan Shah, just like Ryan said, Apple, Spotify, Amazon, anywhere your podcasting content from. That's right.
We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
