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Visit blueapron.com slash terms for more. Mm. This is Jane Pauley. When Oprah Winfrey talks, everyone listens. That includes me.
218. Yes. That's gonna ring a bell with you, that number. Yes. Uh why?
Because that was the weight of uh Mike Tyson when we went to uh World Heavyweight Championship fight and they announced that Mike Tyson was 218 pounds. and I was 218 pounds. And I remember feeling like Whoa. I weigh as much as the heavyweight champion of the world. And now I know, it's so interesting that you would bring up that number because now I know from working with Dr.
Anya Yastroboff, I know that. My body, Jane, was always seeking 211 to 218.
So usually by the time I would hit 211, when I first went on the diet for the wagon of fat and pulled out the wagon of fat. When I did my first marathon, once I get to 211, I'd go, oh, I gotta do something.
So I'd go on a fast, or I'd go to a retreat, or I'd, you know, start some really severe program to try to take the weight back down. But now I understand that the biology of me, which is different than the biology of you and everybody else, everybody, all of us has our own, was always seeking that set point or enough point, as Dr. Anya likes to call it, that enough point of 211. that no matter what I did, No matter how hard I worked, no matter how many marathons, no matter how many races, no matter what. It was always trying to get my body back to 211.
So 218. 211, 218. 218 was, it was June of 1988. And you must have been uh astoundingly affected by that experience of having because um You begin the four-month fast, the Optifast diet.
So four months later, we see you. Yeah, pulling out that wagon of fat, that infamous wagon of fat. 145 pounds. Yes, 145 pounds. Yes.
And then, this is what we talk about this in 1996, about how. Um You couldn't zip up the Calvins. Yeah. And did those genes, what was it about those genes that had power?
Well, I think that I'd bought those jeans when I was in Baltimore. And first of all, to own a pair of Calvin Klein jeans. And I was at a weight where I felt At the time, my most powerful, my most confident, my most Um you know, lovely.
So those genes held that power, because this is how I feel. the best in my body. Wearing those jeans. And so that's where those jeans got that power. But you couldn't zip them up.
But I couldn't zip them up.
So you had to. starve myself an extra two days to be able to zip up the genes.
So we know that. We also understand why after the show you told me I ate a normal meal and gained three pounds. But you didn't eat a three-pound meal. No.
So Now you know something about the biology, something about the science. That the moment you start, you know, and everyone had told me this, Jane, before. You know, but I thought that those that was just people being jealous or people being Um you know, annoying. Oh, you're gonna put the weight back on, you're gonna put the weight back on. I felt confident in myself that, my gosh, what on earth more do you need to do to prove that you have the discipline?
then not eat a morsel of food for four months. And so I thought, with that kind of discipline, I will for sure be able to keep the weight off. And I was in disbelief when I had the first meal and gained three pounds. And within two weeks, it gained back eight pounds, and then ten pounds, and then twelve pounds. And so now I know that it's just biology.
It had nothing to do with how much willpower or my willingness to continue to work out and starve myself, that the body was just trying to do what the body does. If it were a famine, I'm going to outlast a lot of other people, okay? Probably going to outlast you in a famine.
Well, there's no doubt about that because you've got power and in your power, you have willpower. And excuse me, ladies and gentlemen, you think anybody who doesn't have willpower can go on a liquid diet, extreme calorie restriction for four months. With one cheeseburger that she felt so guilty about. Yes, I have to open the windows and let out the air stuff. Oh, yeah.
So, in your journal, um. A year later, Thanksgiving Day, I'm now 175 pounds. I've lost my resolve to try to find a way to carry on the battle. It's so sad. It makes me so sad.
It makes me so sad to hear that. But you did live to fight another day, and you continued to prevail in a daytime talk show. Yes. I remember conversations on the Today Show. about You know, that Oprah Winfrey in Chicago, as if you would have left daytime to come to.
Um Because you were.
Well, you know, you know, I think it's it. It certainly did not affect my ability to connect to people. It did not affect my ability to be compassionate or empathize. It didn't affect any of that. To the contrary.
To the contrary. To the contrary. To the contrary. To the contrary. You were absolutely relatable.
Yes. Your vulnerability. Yeah. Well, you know, I think the thing that actually opened the door to To me, being able to be so completely and fully comfortable with being myself was. Early on, before we were a syndicated show, we had Cheryl Teagues and I think Christy Brinkley And Beverly Johnson, a lot of different models on, and they were all on talking about.
As models do. They were talking about, oh, my cellulate, or talking about their thighs. And I said, ladies. I can tell you a couple things about dyes. And that's when I told them the story of being on the Atkins diet and Being so You know, overwhelmed with not having had any carbs that I.
had taken every single thing that was carbohydrate out of my house. This is when I was living in Baltimore, and I had, this is when we still had. Freezers, and there would be ice on the, you know, you had to defrost your refrigerator, okay? There was a time, people, when people defrosted their refrigerators.
So I had a Pack of hot dog buns in the back of that freezer that had all crusted over with the ice in the nut. And I remember thawing them out in the oven. And found some syrup in the back of the cabinet and pouring the syrup over the hot dog ones and eating them because I was just like, I need some carbohydrates. And uh so that story That story that I told on AM Chicago in the early, early, early days. The audience was going, Yes, yes, me too, me too.
All they remembered. Yes, yes, me too, me too, me too. And so sharing the struggle. Actually, all these years has made it a lot easier. Don't you think one, two, or all of the models left wanting some hot dog puns with served on them?
They were hungry. Yeah, yes, because poor girls starving themselves off the house. You know they were hungry.
So, why are we talking in 1996? It's because you've had two years of. Of fitness, you're extraordinarily fit. You'd run a marathon, you were looking great. I'm actually now, actually, for the first time back to my marathon weight.
I just yesterday hit my marathon weight. What's that? 155. Yeah. And so that's it for me.
I'm going to just try to maintain well done because I thought 160 was your goal waiting. Yeah, yeah, it was. But as I continue to work out here doing strength training, deadlifting, all the things you need to do when you're older. I started to develop muscle and the muscle has helped me lose weight faster. And so the combination of the medication And hiking every day and resistance training has given me the body that I had.
when I was running the marathon. Do you think about your weight all the time still? I think about it. I think about it. I don't worry about it.
What I think about is how do I maintain myself in this space and what do I have to do to do that?
So if I'm here, like in California, and I don't have the hills that I have to hike in when I'm in Maui. Uh I have to work out harder. and I have to maintain eating less. I know that for sure. When I can work out stronger, when I'm in a position where I can hike five, six miles a day.
I don't have to worry about the food as much. And it's a balancing game for me. It's a balancing game. And so I use all of it as a tool. I use all of it as a tool.
There's so much to you. You're jumping away. Ahead of you. I keep trying to go back and get it.
Okay, I'm just going to be led by you. Because this 1996, you had. Um uh uh become as fit as as you are describing yourself now. Uh and it was inspired very much like the Mike Tyson, the two hundred eighteen, except the number in this case was 211. No.
No, what was it? 237. Oh, you're talking about that? Yep, yep.
Okay, so what does 237 mean? What does 237 mean? Um Wow.
So This was 1992. And I'd gotten myself to 237 pounds after having brought out that wagon of fact and having done all the things. To maintain it. And I'm now 237 pounds, and we go to the Emmys. The Daytime Emmy Awards.
And I remember having to go and get something I I had nothing to wear. to the Daytime Emmy Awards because now nothing fits. And anybody who's been in the struggle knows what that's like when you're standing there in the closet and you've got every size and elastic. Size 14 and up, plus elastic, and nothing fits. And I went to this lovely seamstress, don't remember her name.
And I It first said, You just have to look at me. I don't want to be measured because I was too embarrassed to have them do the whole tape thing. And she goes, there's no way we're going to be able to figure it out. If you want this to look good and we can make something really beautiful for you.
So I finally conceded to that, you know, closed my eyes and I'm waiting for them. You know, they take the measurements and they do all the things. And I'm just going to close my eyes and try to pretend this isn't happening, disappear. I don't even want to see what the numbers are. And she makes this lovely gold fitted.
skirt with the brocade um bronze and brown jacket. And it's lovely, it's lovely, it's lovely. I get the shoes to match and all that, it's lovely. And I go to the Emmys. praying not to win.
literally praying not to win. because I don't want to have to get up out of my seat. And Have everybody watch me do that walk to the stage.
So I'm like, please let Phil win, please let Phil win say his name. You know when they do the five names and then they're like, you hold your face and you're like, ha ha. And I'm really like, okay, hope it's Phil, and they say, Oprah Winfrey. And I think, okay, I'm gonna have to get up. I'm gonna have to get up.
And I walk up in there and I receive the award. And I left there and went immediately to a spa. went to a spa and started the process all over again. Yeah. That's why I'm talking to you in 1996.
That's why you were. Yes. Okay. Because just like the 218 with Mike Tyson, the 237. was Profoundly motivating.
You are really motivated by shame. And once again, that's a good thing. That's a good, that's a good idea. And once again, well, I got something else. And once again, you demonstrate extraordinary willpower.
Thank you. I re I remembered this for decades. What I want to say to people, if there was another answer, I would have paid for it. I would have discovered it. I would have traveled to the end of the earth.
I would have quit my job to find the answer. We talked about it. and you say what money bought me. With somebody who could help me see the error of my ways. That's nice.
The error of my way. It always was back on. Yeah, I was still blaming myself for it. But I also do feel this, and that's why I. Collaborated with Dr.
Anya because when I first interviewed her, I thought, first of all, her empathy and real Concern for her patients. I could feel that, and her information was so powerful. That I wanted as many people to know about that as possible.
So I had done a podcast with her here, and we were having a lunch afterwards. And I said, You should really write a book because this information needs to get to as many people as possible. I feel really good that I can call you up on the phone and I can ask you anything I know, but I know that there are millions of people who are struggling, have struggled as I have, and will want the same information.
So you should write a book. And you know, my philosophy all these years for everything. Jane has been, life is better when you share it. And I strongly do believe, I remember saying this. on a show with someone else, another famous person who had just lost weight, and I said, You know, if there ever is a pill, or if there ever is a secret and I get it, I'm going to tell everybody what it is.
Well This is no longer a secret. The GLP1s are no longer a secret. the medications are no longer a secret. But I, like so many other people, when they first came out, Also, I love what you were saying, you know, I'm motivated by shame. I was so motivated by shame.
that I felt I could not take the drug. Because if I took the drug, I who have been the poster child for I can do it, I can do it, I can do it, willpower, willpower, let's just get more willpower, if I couldn't do it, then I would be shamed. And ashamed of myself for not being able to do it myself. Yeah, few people on earth would have been less comfortable. Suddenly losing weight, The easy way, the cheating way, than Oprah Winfrey.
That's what I thought.
Now I think. Uh As when Maya Angelou used to teach, when you know better, you do better. There's nothing easy about it or cheating about it. And there is this great opportunity. to change the health profile For millions of people in the world who have struggled with this disease of obesity.
You didn't know it was a disease of obesity. You didn't know it was a disease of it. Until when, and was it a lightning bolt? This was an aha moment. It was a major moment.
I literally, I was doing. I was taping something for my magazine. Called State of Weight with a panel of doctors. And one of the doctors said, Well, you know, we've known obesity was a disease since 2013. And I said, Hold up, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what?
What? What did you just say? Obesity? Is a disease? Yes, obesity is a disease and we've known that now since this was in 2023 when I first heard it, since 2013.
And I said, how explain to us why it's a disease. And so she went on to explain. And everything in my head is going, it's a disease. And I got off the phone and called my doctor right after that because my doctor had been suggesting that I try it. And I was like, no, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't.
I have to do it my way. I have to do it my way. But I had. As many people know, I have two new knees, and after the knee surgery, I made a vow to myself And to God, that if you let me get up off of this bed, because I couldn't lift my heel off the bed at first, anybody who's had any surgery knows this. It's one of the most painful surgeries ever.
But I highly recommend it if you need it because I would be walking like I was crippled now if I hadn't done it because I had done the shots, the cortisone shots for two years. and they were no longer working.
So when I finally decided that I'm going to get the knee surgery. And then recovering from knee surgery, I said, okay, if I, God, if you let me walk again, I will promise to use my body differently.
So I started out in rehab doing. A tenth of a mile, and then a quarter of a mile, and then, oh, the day I could do a half mile. And I remember looking out my window in Hawaii up at the mountain outside of my house. I was like, what if I could just get to that gate? What if I could just get to that ridge?
What if I could just get. And so when I couldn't do it, when I was immobilized because of the surgery, I was just like longing to be able to walk, longing to be able to hike to there, and then to there, and then to there. And so that's what I did. I I rehabilitated myself to the point where I have now, I would say I'm an official hiker. I'm on my way to Australia and just last night I was looking at All the great places to hide.
Do you know that there's the highest mountain in Australia? It's called. Mount Kosciusco, and I was born in Kosciusco, Mississippi, so I intend to do that when I get to Australia. But the fact that I'm looking for places to hike in Australia and not places to eat. is a major difference.
We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. You, um Uh d yeah, with uh Dr. Anya. Um know a a a great deal about about weight and and the disease. The good news The good news for you, the transformative news.
Oh, was that? If it's a disease, It's not my fault. It's not my fault. It's not my fault, Jane. It's not my fault.
and I could weep right now. I could wheat right now. I'm not going to, but I could wheat right now. For all of the many days and nights I've journaled about, This being my fault. And Why can't I conquer this thing?
Why can I do so many things so well? How can I be this successful in life and I can't conquer this thing? I was going to ask you if there was a of specific you. that you would like to sit down with. And say Oprah Honey.
It's not your fault. Mmm, if you could tell her.
Well, this is why I'm doing this interview with you, and this is why I agreed To Collaborate with Dr. Anya on this book, because I know I'm gonna get all the backlash from all the people that say you shouldn't, and what you shouldn't do it, you shouldn't take it, and how dare you still be talking about weight. But The freedom That this is going to bring to so many people who have suffered as I have suffered. And you know, what I now know is: no cancer is the same, no obesity is the same. And I was always even embarrassed to use the word obese to refer to myself, you know?
We always wanted to say, well, I'm overweight, but I'm not obese. I'm not obese. I carry I have obesity. And How do you know you have it if you've been on 620 diets, if you've tried everything, and it keeps coming back? And no matter how hard you work, it keeps coming back.
This is the. Biggest discovery for me, Jane, the biggest thing. The first day I took that medication. about six hours after I took that medication. I noticed I took it early in the I took it like uh the I think seven ten in the morning, I took the very first dose.
And by two o'clock in the afternoon. I was no longer thinking about what am I going to eat. What am I going to eat for dinner? What am I going to eat Thursday? I started on a Tuesday.
I'm like, I'm the kind of person I'm thinking, okay, come this weekend, I'm going to go so-and-so, and then what am I going to eat there? And where am I going to eat? And where are we going to go? And what are we going to eat? And then if I ate it, I'm thinking about how many calories was that?
How much is it going to take me to burn that off? Or I'm thinking, I shouldn't eat that because that's going to be this many calories, or it's going to take that much. My the food noise, the food the The constant, constant, constant. What did I just eat? How much did I eat?
What am I going to eat tomorrow? Oh my god, Thanksgiving's coming up. How many pounds am I going to gain?
Well, I'm going to do the dressing, but I'm not going to do that. I won't do the gravy. I want all that food noise. that I and I know so many millions of other people have suffered from. I didn't know.
That people like yourself. People who haven't suffered from obesity are not thinking about food all the time. More than you think. But Nonetheless, you're speaking to people Who Are listening and don't know. That they aren't the only one who is hearing the chatter.
The chatter, the chatter. What did I eat the morning tonight? Tonight. Yeah. Yeah.
What did I eat?
Now you're clear. And that clarity, that clearing has left room for so many other things. Open the aperture. For A new way of living and breathing in the world. Because even.
What could Oprah Winfrey have accomplished if only. If only. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.
All that time that, even when I was working out with Bob and doing really well and running the marathon. I'm thinking then, what am I eating? What am I going to eat? What am I going to know? How much cali?
How many calories did I consume? How long is it going to take me to burn this off? Because you had a disease and you weren't treating the disease. I wasn't treating the disease. I thought that it was about willpower, and so does most people.
And even after this information is put into the world, there's still going to be people who say that it's about willpower. It reminds me of the time when we first started on the Oprah Show years ago. talking to, I remember the very first show we did on alcoholism. And people stood up in the audience and say, they should just put the bottle down. They should just put the bottle down.
What do you mean it's a disease? Just stop drinking. Just put the bottle down.
Now that almost everybody in the world has experienced for themselves, someone in their family. Who is addicted, and you've seen what that addiction looks like. Nobody says that anymore.
So I think we're in the early stages of that. for a lot of people who still who are still saying Just work out more and eat less.
Well, that is not the case if you have obesity. It's just not. What people are thinking even now, and I will talk to Dr. Anya about it, we will understand, but people are still thinking, even as they're watching you, well, she knows it's a disease, but now she can still. Manage it with willpower?
No, it cannot be managed with willpower. You know why? Because my body, I don't know what your set point is or your set point is, my body is always going to try to get itself back to 211. Between 211 and 218. My body is working on that.
So I can. You know, diet, and I can keep it because after my knee surgery, this is I meant to finish the story, after my knee surgery, I decided, you know, I was going to hike, hike, hike, hike, hike. I did that. And now I'm only going to do one meal a day.
So I was hiking, hiking, hiking, doing one meal a day. I started to lose weight. People were like, oh, you look so good. I mean, are you on the medication? No, I'm not because I'm doing this on my own.
And I'd lost like 20, 25 pounds. Just doing it the hard way. And then Christmas, the holidays came. And even though I was still hiking every day, I was still trying to do one meal a day, I put on eight pounds. And I was like How is this possible?
I'm hiking 5.6 miles a day.
Okay, I'm gonna move it to six miles.
Now I'm gonna do it to seven miles. At one point, I was doing 11 miles. And now I'm like, I'm spending the whole day hiking. I can't. I can't.
I can't. I can't. So The aha moment for me. Was when I interviewed the doctors on state of weight for O'Daly, and she said, obesity is a disease.
So I call my doctor, you are kidding me. You mean there's something in my body? that causes me To continue to gain weight no matter what I do. And this is the thing, I think most people think that. Overeating causes obesity.
It's actually the other way around. Obesity causes overeating. It's because you have obesity that you overeat. Dr. Anya is going to explain to you because my body and all of us who have, who carry this disease, wants to store fat differently.
than yours. Yes, so overeating for sure. You're you're eating too much, you don't need more of that. I know I don't if m many of us have been on medication that drives appetite. and gained weight from it.
and have a first-hand experience of what you're describing. You're driven to eat. You know why you're gaining weight. You eat too much, but why are you driven? To eat too much, there's an underlying cause, and in the case of obesity.
Now, Um uh Uh there is a metaphor in uh in the book that I just found. astonishingly effective. Hold your breath. Um Yeah.
Well, I was very moved by that metaphor also because I had a physician say to me once that. trying to keep this weight off. through your willpower. is like holding your breath under water and trying not to rise. It's like You can hold it for a long time and not rise.
You can keep yourself down there at the bottom of the pool or the bottom of the ocean. But eventually You're just gonna rise. You're just gonna rise. You're gonna rise. And so Once you understand that, It changes the game and you recognize First and foremost, what I want people to know is it's not your fault, that there are tools to use now.
There are tools to use that can help you. And I do see it as a tool. In no way do I think Is it easier because I don't have the food noise? Yes. And Is it helpful to me to not have to be thinking about what I'm going to eat or not going to eat all the time?
I have become indifferent to food. I still love it. I still love it, but I'm not in any way obsessed about it. I mean. Holidays not holidays.
Going to Italy, not, you know, I used to be like, oh my god, how much weight am I going to gain? I'm going to Italy. How much, I mean, because I'm not going to not do the pasta. And I don't think, I just don't think about it anymore. It feels normalized for me.
But that said, you're what, one dose away from Gaining it back, do you think? Yeah, well, one dose away from the noise. No, no, no, you're not one dose away from the noise. It's not for me, because I've tried. I actually went a year last year not on it to see, because I didn't believe what the doctors were saying.
So I did it, I lost weight. And then I thought They're all saying that you're going to gain it right back. I'm going to prove them wrong. I'm gonna prove it wrong. I did not.
I started to gain weight. I picked up like Fifteen. First seven. First fifth it just starts gradually. It starts gradually.
You start two pounds more, and you think, oh, I can handle that. I can get that off.
Okay, now it's four and a half. I still can get that off. When you get up to seven, okay, okay, I won't go to ten. I went to 10.
Okay, I'm not definitely not going to 15. And then 15, I go, okay, I'm not. I can't. Well, I'm I when I say one dose away, Um I d don't mean literally, but I mean The disease is still there.
Well, this is the big, this is, Jane, that's the big aha I had with Dr. Anya. I thought So that's the big click. Because Having been on Hundreds of diets, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of diets. All of us who are dieting experts.
feel like this time is it. This is the one. This is, I've finally done it. I've conquered it and I'm running marathon and I've done all that. And Now you know that that is that is just not the truth.
That is just not the case. But we all have seen Or known people who have lost a tremendous amount of weight.
Well, the reason why it isn't is because.
Okay. Here's the best example I can give. I come from a history, a family that has a family history of high blood pressure.
So my mother had high blood pressure, my grandmother had high blood pressure, my father had high blood pressure. They were all on high blood pressure medication. I'm on high blood pressure medication. and have been since after menopause. And If I stop that high blood pressure medication, No matter how well I eat, no matter how well I do it, everything, my blood pressure is going to go up.
And the same thing is true with these medications. Just because you get to the point where you lower your set point or your enough point, and now you have reached the weight that. You desire, or you're in that range, that means you have managed that problem. You have not solved that problem. And in order to continue to manage that problem, you need to stay on the medication.
Now, for some people, that may mean a lower dose. And or not taking it every week, but every other week or once a month, whatever it is you need to work out with your caregiver or your physician, that's what you need to do.
So that's what I've learned to do for myself. I've learned that I need lower doses if I'm working out more. Higher doses if I'm working out less.
Okay. Do you have any? Yeah. regret or something that It didn't happen sooner in your life. I have regret that I didn't discover it in 2013.
I have regret that, oh my gosh, this has been going on for over 12 years now and I didn't know about it. I have regret about that. And I have regret, you know, I think about I think about the wasted time. The wasted time, the wasted The wasted sadness and shame about it. I have to think about the wasted.
Years, I think about, you know, I was thinking, I just mentioned this the other day to a friend. I was saying, Luther Van Dross was a friend of mine. and Luther Also We of we would often be compared to each other. and joked about in the same way. and made fun of in the same way.
And I was just saying to a friend the other day, I was listening to some of his music, and I was like, gosh, I wish he could have lived. to receive this medication. Yeah. Yeah. I am just happy.
This is what I feel. I feel That when I was 40 and ran a marathon, I certainly could appreciate the strength that it took to do that and the work that it took to get into that shape. But there's something about being 71. that gives you a perspective. and the long view.
of appreciation that's unlike any other time in your life.
So I was 40 and feeling really good. But to be able to be seventy one. and feel that I am in the best shape of my life. feels better than it did when I was forty. Because, what it takes to be in the best shape of your life when you're 71 is a whole lot more than when you're 40.
And so. I don't have any regrets. I have a sense of gratitude that I was able to live. in a time where These medications were made available to people to change their lives.
Okay, so there's no stopping you now.
Well there is a way nope. There's no stopping you now. You are Oprah. and there is no category that I could think of. Um that that defines What being Oprah means.
Other than the best I could do with the assistance of artificial intelligence. I was going to say, let's ask chat. Yeah, was force. Oh, that's right. Winfrey is a force.
and uh uh has power I mean, the word influence is cheapened by influencers, but Uh you've got so much potential power. All you have to do is identify an idea. and share it. Or a book? and share it and it's a bestseller.
You have such power. What are you going to do with the power that you have? have now that you are this woman undeterred by Wait and noise. What are you going to do?
Well, I don't even feel that that's a beautiful question, but I don't feel compelled. to do anything. What I feel, Jane. is this great desire to be and blossom in all the ways that are best for me at this stage of my life. And I feel that What the the lack of food noise and worrying about and carrying the sh being, as you say, motivated by the shame.
What being motivated by the shame has done. Instead, being motivated by the desire to live whatever this final decade or days. of of this part of my life. means at this time. I mean, I just want to be able to Give back, to use what I've learned, to travel to Um allow all the people who I've been able to help to step into the Spaces in their lives and meet the rising of their lives.
So I don't know what it means, actually, other than I feel. Free! Yeah. Hmm.
Well, maybe you don't want to give up that freedom. Uh for um Uh they responsibilities that might come if you chose to use power. In, say, a political way.
Well, that is not going to happen. As you know, your name was. Incredibly bandied about for the presidency. No, it's not going to happen. What I really want to do is to continue to use who I am and what that represents as a force in the world as a force for good.
and to continue to allow people to not allow to to allow people to not let the noises of the world still their joy. There's still so much joy to be had. And I think with all the chaos and confusion and craziness, and you know, I limit myself to. The amount of news and stuff I take in on a daily basis. I really use the iPad and I use it to screen what I really want to see.
and what I don't, I don't even let it in. And to be able to help people to continue. in their own right. To use their kindnesses to bring grace to other people's lives. That's what I'm trying to do.
That's why I'm going on tour actually, speaking in Australia, doing that. Take a message to Australia, they know who you are. Yeah, they do. They do.
Okay, so. What about uh? How do you figure it happened? That a little girl from Kasagusko, Mississippi. By way of Nashville, where you were a teenager when you started in television, and then you're career in Baltimore.
And then very quickly You You topple the phenomenon in daytime television was Phil Donahue. How How do you figure that from that success You kept on going, you kept on going and became something. is so much bigger than television. Ah, you know what I mean. I do know what you mean, and I have to say...
There's a wonderful poem by County Cullen called Yet Do I Marvel. And I would have to say, yet do I marvel at that myself. I still sit here in my home in Montecito, literally Mississippi to Montecito. particularly in the early spring, the frogs are in the pond and I can open the door and I can hear the frogs out at night. And it sounds just like Mississippi, being on the porch in Mississippi.
But the distance from Mississippi to Montecito cannot be measured. It just cannot be measured. And I marvel at Yeah. I marvel at um I marvel at how it all how it how did this happen? How did it happen?
that I was able to navigate the waters of racism and sexism and misogynism and all the things that we had to endure. Yet do I marvel.
Well I would submit. that you would have been a phenomenal success. But I don't think you would have become Uh Oprah. if you hadn't had the weight issue. and been open about it and shared it.
Yeah, I would agree with that. I actually agree with that. And that's why I don't have any regrets about it. I don't have any, you know, I wish I'd known in 2013, but other than that, I don't have any, I would have to say. There's a wonderful Spiritual African American spiritual Um called I Wouldn't Take Nothing for My Journey Now.
I wouldn't take nothing for my journey now. For my journey now, for my journey now. I wouldn't take nothing for my journey now. So I wouldn't. I wouldn't change the journey.
Because I think the struggle with the weight, the Um Being motivated by the shame, being In that fight for something better for myself, for my health. Actually, it helped me be more relatable and relate more to other people who were in their own struggles.
So I wouldn't I wouldn't take anything for it. But I'm glad now to be in a position where I feel the healthiest and strongest I have ever been. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app.
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