Friday, April 25 | Guilty for Adam's Original Sin?

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So thanks for your support. Thank you to Mighty Muscadine for sponsoring today's show. Now let's get started. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. And we have got a great conversation for you guys today. Really, really good topic. Kind of difficult to talk about sometime, but one that I think is going to benefit a lot of people listening today. But before we do anything else, we've got to welcome our host, Dr. Abbadan Shah. So Lily, welcome to the studio. Thank you so much for being here. And I'm excited about the show today.

Oh, it's going to be fantastic. You're looking good, man. You're looking crisp. I got to say, I like that shirt.

Thank you. I like that watch too. So one of the things I wanted to ask you about that watch was, I knew you were going to, I knew you were going to Europe and I was going to ask you if you, cause I was going to get an Apple watch, but I don't like the leather bands. I wanted to get the metal bands. And I knew you said, I was like, can you send me a link to where you got that band? And you were like, Oh, I got this at an airport. Didn't you say you got it in the airport in Germany?

No, no, no, no, no. This, no, this I got from a site, a website. Oh, a website. Yeah. Not the airport. Oh, I thought you said you got it from the airport in Germany. No, I'm sorry.

I may have miscommunicated. No, this is a site, uh, known as band work. So they're getting a free publicity sponsored by band work. That'd be great. If we were sponsored, if you'd like to sponsor the Clearview today show, right. I'll certainly talk good about your, uh, about your product. Cause it looks good.

But they're, they're the, the only ones who make something like this and it's like beautiful and it works well and uh, looks good too. I think I'm the only one in here without, without an Apple watch. Uh, I have an analog watch and it doesn't even work. It's completely, it doesn't even work. No, no, the battery's fine. It's just today is not the 28th and it's not midnight. Oh yeah.

The thing just doesn't work, but it looks good. That's all that matters. Well, Dr. Shaw today's verse of the day is coming to us from the Gospel of John chapter four in verse 23 it says, but the hour is coming and now is when the true worshipers will worship the father in spirit and truth for the father is seeking such to worship him. It's such a powerful statement from Jesus to the Samaritan woman. Dr. Shaw, I know you've talked a lot about the Samaritan woman, this encounter with Jesus.

What is he actually saying here? Worshipping in spirit and truth. Well, we need to remember that there was always a conflict between the Samaritans and the Jewish people and that conflict went back at least six, 700 years to the Assyrian exile. The Assyrians had a policy of relocating their conquered people. So after they took over Northern Israel, they took people from Northern Israel and moved them elsewhere, those 10 tribes. And then they took people from that place wherever they moved the 10 tribes to and brought people from there and relocated them into the land of Israel. So the Samaritans were Israelites at one point?

No. Never Israelites. Never were Israelites. In fact, the Bible talks about them. If you read in some of the second Kings, I believe it is, it talks about how they came about. And so they were people from elsewhere from, I would say from where modern day Iran is, that's where a lot of the 10 tribes were dispersed. So they got, the people from elsewhere got moved into where the Israelites were taken from.

They just did the old switcheroo. Switcheroo in the sense of an Assyrian policy of repopulating people. And that's the way they control them. Because when you are brought into a land that you don't know, when you are taken away from your family roots, it takes away any sense of patriotism. It takes away any sense of nationalism. So you cannot rise up against your so-called oppressors.

Because you don't have any foundation, you don't have any ownership. It completely, not only de-shelves the people, but also takes away any sense of pride. And putting Assyrian people into the conquered land. Not Assyrian, they were probably more people from the Caucasus. Were they conquered by the Assyrians?

Yes. Okay, so they were literally just playing. Two conquered groups. They just moved like Caspi.

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. And this was an Assyrian policy. This wasn't like an isolated event.

This was what they did across the board. This is what Assyrians did. So that's where the Samaritans came from. They were once a conquered group that came in. Now there's a story behind it, if you read the Bible, where they came in. And when they came in, there were very few original Israelites left. Because most everybody was taken away in the Assyrian exile. I mean, they took away most people. But then there were a few vagrants, very poor people, were sort of left there. So now you have these people brought in from elsewhere. And they're looking around and going, okay, who are we now? The locals here look pathetic. I mean, they don't have anything. But the real people here are gone.

So what should we do? They brought their gods and goddesses with them. So did you know that the people of Judah had to send evangelists into the north to share the gospel with these people? Wow, that's incredible.

Yeah. And I mean, there's a lot of stories that is really fascinating, the history of the Samaritans. There was always a conflict because when Nehemiah came, and he was called by God to rebuild the walls of the temple. If you notice, there were three individuals who opposed them.

There was Sanballat, Tobiah, and then Geshem. And one of them was part of this Samaritan family group. They opposed Nehemiah. In fact, Samaritans opposed God's people when they were trying to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. That's why Nehemiah told them, we don't want you to help us. And they were saying, no, we are part of God's people because after several hundred years, they began to take on the identity that we are God's people too.

And it's like, no, you're not. Yes, we are. You were brought from somewhere else and put here.

That's not true. We intermarried and we are part of you. Like some genealogical gymnastics going on. Yeah, because they want to be Israelites and, but they also had some weird traditions and all that. So all this is going on.

So there was a, and then they opposed God's people. So which is like, you should not have done that. Right.

It definitely was a big goof. Yeah. And so when this Samaritan woman says, we worship on this mountain and you say that we should worship on that mountain. And Jesus is like, lady, there's a day coming when it's not going to be on this mountain or that mountain you're going to worship.

And God is looking for those who will worship him in spirit and in truth. That's right. That's right. So he did not say the Jewish people are right. Although he did say that salvation is of the Jews. He did say that to the Samaritan woman.

Yes. But he did not stay there and say, well, you know, you should just listen to the Jewish people. He's like, no, salvation is of the Jews, but God wants you to worship him in spirit and truth, not in locality. I love that. And I love that he, that he says that too, that the father is seeking that he's seeking out those people to worship him. It means that you have an opportunity, you know, even that Samaritan woman had an opportunity to respond to the gospel.

Yeah, absolutely. There's an opportunity there for everybody. You know, Dr. Shell, we've been throwing a lot of segments at you and at the listeners here lately, but I thought maybe before we go into the ad break, we could just slow down and just ask you what's been going on. You know, what are you working on these days? Anything that you want to plug? Anything that you're excited about?

Yes. There's a lot happening. There's going to be a conference here coming up this fall on the Byzantine text.

As you know, I love the Byzantine text and there's going to be a conference coming up. We're working towards that. This summer we're doing a series in our digging deep called Christianity Through Britain. So I'm working on that right now. For the past year, I've been to Great Britain twice and I've done a lot of filming there with my wife. So you'll get to see those videos and follow the journey of Christianity in Britain. I'm excited about that one. Yeah, that's going to be fun. Maybe during the summer we can bring some of those discussions into the Clearview Today show.

Lots of people. See, digging deep is one of those sort of exclusive things. I think a lot of people don't know this, but Clearview Church actually produces a lot more content than what you just see for free on prayer. So we're kind of going into what things are exclusive and what things aren't. But I was thinking maybe we could bring some of those England, Europe, Christianity in Europe conversations from those Wednesday night studies and bring them onto the show so people can hear them. That would be fantastic. That would be very cool. Yeah.

Guys, don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more Clearview Today. Hey. Hey, you. Me? No, not you.

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That's right, Dr. Shah. Today's check-in is coming to us all the way from Pennsylvania. That's God's country up there.

Is it? That's God's country. That's what they call them. That's God's country, Pennsylvania. God's country, Pennsylvania.

Isn't that where you guys go? Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Lancaster, that's right.

That's right. I don't know if this one was from Lancaster, but Jennifer W. W stands for Jennifer... I don't got it.

I don't got nothing. Wombat. Jennifer Wombat. Wombat's our native to Pennsylvania. All the way.

I think I read that somewhere. Hey, Dr. Shah, long time listener. I recently listened to an episode you guys did on God's justice and I've really been thinking about it ever since. I get that God is just and holy and I appreciate how you explained his judgment, but there's still one thing that's bothering me. Why are we guilty because of what Adam did? I wasn't in the garden. I didn't eat the fruit and if I was, I feel like it would have been easy enough for me to obey God. I didn't choose rebellion. So how is it fair that we're all born into sin because of someone else's decision? Is that justice?

I know the Bible says it, but it is hard for me to wrap my head around how that lines up with a just God. Would love to hear more on that if you ever do a follow up episode. Thank you, Jennifer Wombat. That's a great point. I feel like a lot of people have that question too. Adam messed it up.

Why am I getting punished for it? I have felt that way, but you also, you kind of don't want to say it. You know what I mean? Because it's like, okay, I know that what God says is just.

I don't really feel like that's just, but maybe it's better not to say anything and just kind of take it as it is. Yeah. Well, Dr. Shah, I know you talked about that in a message recently about Adam being our federal head, the head of our family tree. What does that mean for us and how does that map onto this conversation about Adam's sin affecting us today?

So you used the word federal head. It can also be said that he was our covenantal head. We're talking about the issue of original sin at that point. And it goes back to Romans chapter five and verse 12.

So if you want to turn there for a moment, I'm going to read and maybe we can walk through that one simple statement because that verse, Romans five 12 is probably one of the most hotly debated passages in the Bible. Okay. Conversations about this verse has been going on for the past 1700 years. Really? Same conversation or has it evolved a lot?

Oh, it's evolved. But bottom line is the meaning of that verse. Okay.

Okay. So Romans five 12, it says, therefore, just as through one man, sin entered the world and death through sin. We're talking about here, original sin. And if you want to say original death as well, right in Genesis chapter two and verse 16, the Lord God commanded the man saying of every tree of the garden, you may freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat it. For in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die.

I know people have asked this before, but why put the tree there in the first place? Why not just remove that temptation altogether? Well, when it comes to faith and obedience, there has to be a choice, right? Because if there is no choice, there is no need for faith. You can just exist.

Choice is giving you a chance to put your input or decide whether or not you're going to accept that truth or that command. Because love doesn't control us like puppets. You know, God is still a loving God. Another question, I don't know if this has anything to do with what we're talking about, but is it understood or is it more or less accepted that Lucifer's fall happened prior to, prior to the tree of the knowledge? Oh yes, it has to be. So evil existed before Eden.

Yes. So it wasn't that God is like, all right, let me invent evil so that I can tempt these guys. Evil already existed. Evil existed.

How long did it exist? That's a different question. Gotcha. Because if you go by a literal seven day, 24 hour day period, if you go by that, then God made the heavens and the earth. And then at that point, we hear that the sons of God, they rejoiced or they sang praises to God, which means that the angels were created before God made the heavens and the earth. Or maybe they were created between the heavens and the earth point because somewhere there they're rejoicing. Right. They're rejoicing to see creation coming to life.

Coming to life. And we know that angels are created beings. They're not eternal like God is.

Right. Definitely they're created. As to when they were created, it had to be some point either right before he made the heavens and the earth, but then the question comes, where were they hanging out? If there was no heaven. But if heaven here means the sky, then I would say maybe they were created before the heavens and the earth, which means they existed as angelic beings. What was their task? Maybe to stand before God, to glorify God, but they were not going anywhere else because there was nowhere else to go to.

I just thought of something. This really isn't funny, but we give Adam a bad rep for falling so quickly. It doesn't take three chapters, but we don't know really how long he was in the garden before the fall happened. But if you subscribe to a 24 hour creation, Lucifer really did not have very long.

He fell almost instantly. Yeah. I would say in a matter of a couple of days.

I was going to say it had to be a day. Wow. It was almost parallel with God creating the heavens and the earth, and then God beginning to separate the land from the sea.

Wow. Somewhere between God making the vegetation, somewhere there, the rebellion happened. Because it had to happen if you subscribe to the view that, which is I believe biblical, that Satan came in in the form of the serpent in the garden of Eden. So somewhere there it happened. If God is outside of time, are angels outside of time in his presence as well? I don't believe so. I believe only God is eternal.

Only God has God-like attributes. Right. Yeah.

That makes sense. Yeah. So they were not eternal.

Yeah. That's a good point because I always, and I know we're going down a rabbit hole, but I have always assumed that heaven is eternal and God's in heaven. But God is eternal. It's not that people who are in heaven just get to be eternal and outside of time because they're there. Right. He's outside of time. Right. Makes sense.

So somewhere in the first month or two or whatever it is, or maybe first couple of days, we don't know. We do know that Satan did lead, and again, this is a very sensitive subject. I don't enjoy talking about this subject because we're describing the enemy.

He never is happy when we describe his previous role. Right. Right. So I've always said to our people, pray for me because I'm talking about the enemy. But we don't have to fear him, but we still need to have healthy respect. So somewhere either in the first couple of days of creation or maybe the first couple of months after the creation was made that Satan fell. He tried to equal himself to God and he took with him a cohort and they fell as well. Now sin has come in. And then of course now happens what we read about in Genesis chapter three, where Satan comes to Eve. He doesn't go to Adam. He goes to Eve because he knows he can deceive her. And so he goes to her and says, has God indeed said not to eat of every tree?

And so her response is, we may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, but of the fruit of the tree, which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, you shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die. That word there is in Hebrew is the word moath or moth. By the way, in Hindi, the language I grew up speaking in India, moth is death. Really? That's the same exact word? Yeah. The more languages you learn, the more you realize we came from one story.

Yeah. It seems like they sort of connect. There's a lot of parallels between Hebrew. This is just a yes or no, but are there other Hebrew parallels in Hindi?

Like does Hindi borrow from Hebrew? Yes. Gotcha. A hundred percent. Gotcha. A hundred percent. Gotcha. Gotcha. And so just a side note there, but nonetheless, getting back to our story, of course, he lied to her and said, you will not surely die.

No, you're not going to die. And so she ate the fruit. She was deceived and she gave to her husband, Adam, who knowingly ate the fruit. There's a difference between Eve's disobedience and Adam's disobedience. Eve was deceived. Adam did it knowingly.

Right. Do we know where Adam was when Eve was deceived? It says with her.

She gave to her husband who was with her. Right there with her with the serpent. And is doing nothing.

Is doing nothing at all. Come on. Like a snake comes up and starts talking to your wife. We got to step in and do something. Yeah. You would think.

It's definitely Adam's story is a call to manhood for sure. Like I'm definitely like if even just like a snake who wasn't the enemy incarnate was near my wife, I'd be like, hey, baby, get away from that. Yeah, let's step away from that. Come sit down. You would let the kids near.

Let's come sit down. Yeah. But no, he's like, it makes sense to me. Maybe you should go on and eat it. And Satan knew to go to her and he did. And Adam did not do anything being there the whole time. In fact, when she offered him the fruit, he ate it. Another thing, another thing, this is a tangent.

I know this is a tangent, but with Eve, we always say that Eve was deceived, but I don't understand how she was deceived when she herself said, if I eat this, I will die. Right. You know what I mean? It's like she knew the game, but the snake was like, no, no, no, it's all good.

So she was like, okay, I guess, I guess I'm going to go for it. And again, we can go deeper into this and it all comes down to how much time we have in the show without going too far away. But I guess the question is how much did she understand what it means to die? They've never seen death. That's a great point. There's nothing that is dying around them at that time. But God, that is a good point. Cause, cause, cause God is the one who specifically told Adam, sin and death are connected.

You will die. Yeah. Cause he didn't tell that to Eve. He told that to Adam. So Adam had that direct revelation from God. That's a good point.

That's a good point. And in a sense, I believe she also was probably instructed on the same situation, same command. So maybe it's an argument from silence, but I don't think we can say that she never heard. Maybe she did. Maybe God also told her, I said, okay guys, before I leave, don't eat of that one tree.

Everything else is fine except for that one tree. Right. She knew it from somewhere cause she told it to the serpent. Right. Yeah.

But I do love, and I see your point that you're making, I do love that sin and death are connected. You can't separate them. Right.

You can't separate. And Adam knew that from the very beginning. So Adam and Eve eat the fruit and sin enters into the world.

Everything is corrupted. How do we get from there to we're now guilty of original sin? Well, to back up just a little bit longer, sin came in, but it also brought death with it. Now sin has entered and death has followed with it.

Death is a separation. So when God told Adam, and then maybe he also told Adam and Eve, you will surely die. He, what he said was you will be separated from your body, your body that was made from the dirt. And then Eve, who was made from the man, Adam, you will be separated from your body. There will be a time when you will not cease to exist, but your body will cease to exist and it will have to be placed in the ground.

You will have to dispose off of it. Where will you go? You will go before God in the presence of God, waiting for a judgment to come. That's deep.

That's rough. Like all the, the judgment is still coming. All the souls who have gone before us are standing before God right now waiting. Right.

Wow. But that was what death was, separation from the body, but also separation from one another. Previously, the two shall become one flesh.

There was a sense of union. We knew how to connect with each other. We were connected to our body, but we were also connected to one another. Of course, one another were only two people on the planet, Adam and Eve.

We don't ascribe to the, or subscribe to the theory that there were, there was a previous creation or there was a race that existed and then they sinned and God destroyed them and their new race was created. And that's where Adam and Eve came from. Is that a real view? There are views like that. I've never heard that. It's called the gap theory and it's unbiblical.

It's, it's cannot be sustained by biblical evidence. That's an Assassin's Creed plot line. I was going to say it's also the plot of Assassin's Creed. I was going to say, like, I thought that was just something they made up for Assassin's Creed. They talk about that in the video game. There's pieces of Eden that you have to find. And there was this race that came before and then they were destroyed and now we have the people are building theology off Assassin's Creed or maybe Assassin's Creed is taking it from there.

I don't know. But I was like, man, that sounds like a something I've heard before, but it's literal science fiction. That is so funny. So now there's a separation, three part separation, separation from your own self, separation from your wife or separation from your husband. And the third separation is from God. Separation, separation, separation.

Wow. So when the person asked, why do I have to suffer the consequences of someone else's sin? You don't have a choice in that matter, right? You can argue all about it. You can deny it. You can call it unfair, but fact is fact. You are now living in separation mode.

Yes. It's one of those, it's one of those awkward things that we run into sometimes where like we have pre-labeled justice. I know what justice is. So what God is saying here doesn't line up. Therefore he's not just, but I don't define what justice is. Human beings don't define what is fair and what's just. Yet another example of us suffering from main character syndrome. We are the ones who set the terms.

No, we're absolutely not. Yeah. The entire human race suffers from main character syndrome.

A hundred percent. Yeah. That's the thing is like, I'm struggling. The reason you're struggling and I struggle with it too.

It's not like just you. Like I don't have a good grasp on this is because I have an idea, an unbiblical idea of what justice is. And this doctrine of original sin doesn't fit into my idea, but that's assuming that my idea of justice is what justice is and it's not.

It's not. And so three part separation, separation from self, separation from your spouse, and then separation from God. But there's also a union that happened and it was a very unhealthy, ungodly, evil union, destructive union. And that was our union with death. So we are separated from self, others, God, and we became united with death and even sin. So we're literally infected. Yeah.

Infected with sin and death, separated from self, others, and God. Wow. Now somebody or this person who said that, you know, that's not fair, but is it a fact?

Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's a fact. I mean, look at the world around you. You don't have to look very far to determine that's a fact.

And there are people all over the world. If you maybe, maybe it'll help you with your, with your definition of justice. If you think of it as an infection, there are people who get infected and get sick and it's not fair, but it happens.

That's right. And so maybe, maybe that's a good way to look at it. Not that, I mean, you are guilty of sin, but every single human is.

But if it's, if it's painful to think, well, even if I didn't do anything, well, then you're infected and there's nothing you can do about that. Now you have to simply substitute FAIR with FACT. Good point.

It's not about fairness. It's about fact. And facts are you're living in separation mode with the things you should be united to and you are living united to some things, sin and death that you should be separated from. So humanity, if you really talk about it, uh, can be described as we are united with the wrong things. That's right. Wow. That's a, that's a very interesting way to think about it and to picture it in your mind. Like this is the union that you should have over here, but this has been torn apart and you've been joined to these things that you were meant to be separated from.

That's fascinating. Dr. Sho, we got about three minutes left in the show. Is this where it all ends? Is there any good news to this?

There is. You're going to have to watch the next show or listen to the next podcast because there's so much there that we want to cover, but I hope you realize that every time there is a breakdown in relationships, every time you lose a loved one, every time you see people living their lives for self instead of living it for the glory of God, it's simply a reminder that we have the wrong union. We are now united with sin and death instead of being united to God, to others, and even to ourselves.

Amen. There's good news coming. Make sure you tune in to tomorrow's episode so you can hear it. Monday's episode. That's right. Monday's episode. You can binge an episode on Saturday, but tune in to Monday's episode. Don't sit here and fret for three or four days. There is some good news coming.

That's right. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible, and don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen or share it with a friend, and you can always support us financially at clearytodayshow.com. Thank you to those of you who are already doing that. John, anything you want to plug as we close today? Definitely want to plug Dr. Shah's new series, Discerning Doctrine, that is exclusive to Pray.com.

You're only going to find it right there. Thank you to all of you guys who have subscribed. We passed 3K, 3,000 people subscribing on Pray.com. That's exciting. Look, we've only been on there less than a month.

I mean, 3,000 people in the last month have subscribed and are giving to all of our ministries here at Cleary Church. Thank you for doing that, Dr. Shah. Thank you for the amazing content. We're going to see you guys next time on Cleary Today.

That's right. Have a wonderful week, and we'll see you Monday on Cleary Today. This episode of Clearview today is brought to you by Le Bleu Ultra Pure Water. When you drink Le Bleu, you're only getting two ingredients, hydrogen and oxygen. Le Bleu is the leading choice for hydration with a patented process that removes impurities and ensures the highest level of purity possible. Unlike other bottled waters, Le Bleu's ultra pure filtration system provides water that is free from contaminants and infused with only the essentials your body needs. Whether you're at home, on the go, or working hard, Le Bleu Ultra Pure Water offers a refreshing, crisp taste with every sip. It's going to give you the hydration you need without the worry. So make the smart choice today and experience the difference of Le Bleu Ultra Pure Water. You can find out more and order online at Le Bleu. That's L-E-B-L-E-U.com, and make sure when you check out, you tell them the Clearview Today show sent you. You can use promo code T-O-D-A-Y at checkout to get 10% off your next order. It's going to save you money, and it's going to support all of us here at the Clearview Today show. So stay hydrated, stay healthy, and without further ado, let's start the show.