Extended Interview: Denzel Washington and Jake Gyllenhaal on "Othello"

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That's usenourish.com. This is Jane Pauley. Grab some popcorn. We've got Jake Gyllenhaal and Denzel Washington together on Broadway and in conversation with Bill Whittaker. This is a 48-year journey for me. 48 years ago, I played Othello at 22 right down the block at Fordham at Lincoln Center.

I go past it every day on my way to rehearsal. It's fascinating to have been too young for the part and some may say now too old. 48 years of experience, 48 years of pain and pleasure and life has informed my approach to playing the role. So on this, you have not worked together before? First time.

First time. So how's this collaboration going? Great.

I've been as great as Othello and Iago. Well, in the scenes it's complicated. It's complicated.

Yeah. Life and death is ever present in every moment of the show. To do it service is a lot of hard work and we're all working very hard to try our best to do that. But it is, personally, it's constantly humbling, you know, to be able to work with him on such a extraordinary piece is, you know, you get to a point where you're like, oh, I've worked my whole career for this, for this moment.

Me too. Is that what it feels like? That's what it feels like for me too. I've worked my whole career for this moment.

Yeah, that's exactly what it feels like. So this is a pretty star-studded season on Broadway. Lots of Hollywood actors and producers coming to... What's the definition of a Hollywood actor? Myself, I'm from Mount Vernon, so I'm a Mount Vernon actor. I don't know what Hollywood means.

That's something, I know it's a place. I think it's somebody who's famous on film. A film actor, great success on film. I'm a stage actor who does film.

It's not the other way around. I did stage first. I learned how to act on stage, not on film. Movies are a filmmaker's medium.

You shoot it and then you're gone and they cut together and add music and do all of that. Theater is an actor's medium. The curtain goes up, and you're on, and nobody can help you. Mistakes are the highest. Yeah. So I understand this is your first time performing a Shakespeare play. You know what I realized? I did do much ado about nothing in high school, and I realized that this morning when we were speaking.

You forgot? I'd probably, the audience and I would probably like to... Well, his mother loved me. It's exactly right. She thought I was great. When I first read the play, I knew I had a lot of work to do. So I've spent a good part of the year, a better part of this year, learning how to speak the language and learning the show, but most particularly learning the language itself, so I could feel somewhat comfortable in speaking in it. And then we get to rehearsal and they say, you can throw all the language out, which is great. Or, you know, we're going to have to say you can throw all the language out, which is great. Or it's not so precious, the iambic pentameter.

He's not so much, you know, it's not that the iambic pentameter is... And we have that under us, but we're not just going by the rules. So what's it like? I mean, your first performance of Shakespeare since high school, and it's on Broadway. We'll find out. You know, exactly.

I mean, you know, it's funny. I was at LaGuardia High School yesterday. They do a performance of the students and my friend is a teacher there. And I was there watching them.

They gave, they're just incredible talents at that school. And I was thinking as I was watching these amazing kids perform, I was thinking to myself that I know that feeling when you're out in the wings and you're waiting. That feeling that made me love acting from the very beginning, when I was a kid being able to have the opportunity to express myself in that space. One of the only places in my life where I could say, oh, I can, I can express all these feelings, right? And sitting out there or be in the wings before you go on, that feeling doesn't change. From that kid in high school going out to me as, you know, a grown man about to go out on Broadway to perform this extraordinary piece with, you know, one of my favorite actors and the, you know, in, in, in my life and in the world, it doesn't change that feeling, that excitement and the joy of being able to do what we do. Like, and I just thought about that and I, I don't know. This is the most excited I've been this century.

Seriously. The century, the 21st century. I haven't been this excited about anything I've done as I am about this. Othello has been performed thousands of times over hundreds of years. What makes this production different? We have to perform the show as if it's the world premiere of Othello, as every cast should feel, but we feel that way. You know, the brilliance of Shakespeare is that it should be done by you.

There are no masks. And so because of that, we have an opportunity to bring something that no one has ever seen before, because if you bring yourself, you know, into that role, then that's what will happen. You know, The way I look at it is we've been together at least on three or four or five campaigns together. You know, we talk about his, uh, he's, he's honest and worthy and trustworthy and all of those things. And people, you know, they're ordinarily thinking, oh yeah, it's about jealousy. And he, he betrays them.

No, it's about two soldiers who trust each other with their lives. And, uh, go ahead. Well, then, yeah. What are you so pissed off about?

What did I do to you? I'll let you know, you know, but there's a line from the play. There's a great list, the line from the player, but I mean, that, that, what is shared is theirs, you know, and what is shared is, is beyond something that they would share with others. That's what makes their bond so strong. I think at the heart of it is at least from my point of view, the idea of evil, it doesn't, it's not playable to me, but to me, hurt is a, is a, is a, is a playable feeling in a way that understanding how you move through what you've done, he's devoted himself to Othello and to, you know, the work that they've done and he's given his life for it. So whatever it is, and that's what we've been figuring out between them that makes Iago do what he does has to have specificity, at least to me. Um, and a lot of that, I think we've talked a lot about it comes out of, out of love, you know, out of what they've done for each other in combat and for each other, you know? And so I, I just, that, that's been the essence of our, our work so far.

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Discounts not available in all states and situations. You are playing one of the most iconic villains ever written. You're talking about finding your voice in the language that Shakespeare wrote.

What's it like to find the voice of Iago? It's all there for you. It's all there for you and doing so much as great writing does the work for you.

That's the incredible part of this role is that a lot of times you just have to get out of your own way. And the simplicity of how we all feel, because I feel you have to find the Iago in yourself to understand the Othello in yourself and vice versa. And that's to me what makes the play so extraordinary. And for you, are you relating to this language, this play? How are you relating to this language and this play differently from when you were 22? I know a lot less now. I thought I knew everything then. I didn't really like the part because I wasn't wise enough to understand it. Now I understand it's really about a bond that these characters have.

He loves not wisely, but too well. I was actually doing Gladiator and all the old actors were up in the stands watching a young boy down there running around. And one of the guys, we were talking about plays and stuff. And I mentioned Othello and he says, yeah, someone of the old guys, you should do it. I'm like, I'm too old. He says, no, you're not.

You're absolutely not too old to do it. He said, you're actually right. I'm like, you think so?

He's like, yeah, that's why I'm here. Because one of the old guys from Gladiator film said you should do it. So if it goes wrong, no, it's not going wrong. It's not going wrong.

Like I said, I'm the most excited I've been. I read that before you filmed the tragedy of Macbeth, that you did not watch other performances of Macbeth. Is that true? Yeah, I don't watch other performances. I don't really watch movies and stuff anyway. You've not seen anyone's performance of Othello? I don't want to lie, but I think no, not lately. No, I didn't see Robinson.

I didn't see, no. I miss James Earl Jones. James Earl Jones was my Northern star when I was in college. He was who I wanted to be when I was in college. He had done the Ember.

He did the Ember Jones just like me. He did Othello. It was his Othello. Of course, it was my Othello. I didn't get to see his Othello, but I know it wasn't as good as my 22-year-old interpretation.

But it's my turn now. Denzel, you created quite a stir recently when you either indicated or said, I think it was indicated that you might be thinking of retiring. And I know you even said that you want to move towards directing more, I think, is how the interview ended up.

So why the shift? No, because I'm 70 years old and I have other interests. And what's wrong with that? I mean, I have other interests.

I have books I want to write. We all have a problem with that. Well, I have Sunsets I want to watch. Being here now is what it's really all about. I was going to say something else, but that's really what it's all about, being here now. So I'm not using the R-word word anymore.

I was talking with, I'm going to start giving away stuff, but I guess I already said it, but so what? I have an exciting life behind the camera, behind, you know, I'm committed to finishing, hopefully I live long enough to finish producing all of August Wilson's plays. I love more than anything else, seeing other people do well. That's what gives me joy. I've been out front long enough and I love seeing other people do well, even if I am out front, you know, I just, you know, you've heard me say it.

Nelson Mandela said it, a leader like a shepherd sends the fast nimble sheep out front so that the rest will follow. I don't mind being in the back. I love being in the back. You know, I've been out front. It's rough out there. It's dangerous. I've got bow arrows coming at you and all that stuff, you know.

I'm at peace. Tell me about each other. I mean, as a fellow Iago, are you brilliant, complicated, scientific, unusual. He has a good, good, good, good heart, strong fears. I'll use complicated again, but I love him. I love him like a brother. What do you got to say, man? If you could tell the like 11 year old kid that they would be sitting next to, that was me, that they'd be sitting next to Denzel Washington.

First of all, they'd be working ever with Denzel Washington. And then the fact that he would say that about me, I think. I mean it. I didn't just say it, brother. Come on now. Don't you start. I know, man.

All right, don't you start. Here we go. To me. I mean it. I absolutely mean it. To me, what else is there in your work, right?

To be working with someone that you have admired for however long you have from afar and to be able to do a play like this with them. He is everything that he says he is. He is everything that he says he is. He is everything that he says he is. He is, you know, we all know it. He is a leader. He has a huge heart. He is complicated.

And I take that complicated as a tremendous compliment. And I am here to try and push as best I can him to what he needs in this role. I, that's how I feel. I feel tremendous gratitude. And he makes me feel it when I walk in that room every day. So that's, I can't put into words who he is because everyone here knows and feels the way they do about him. And I feel that same way. And he's just, he's incredible. So.

We have three and six. Come see us if you can get a ticket. You better hurry. You better hurry.

You better hurry. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up Hoop fans? I'm Ashley Nicole Moss, and I'm bringing you Triple Threat, your weekly courtside pass to the most interesting moments and conversations in the NBA. From clutch performances to the stories shaping the game on and off the court, Triple Threat is a great sport.

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