Wasn't that delicious?
So good. Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist.
I insist first. Don't be silly. You know me. People with the Wells-Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.
Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No!
The Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card. Visit wellsfargo.com/slash active cash. Terms apply. This is Jane Pauley, the musical Cats. Who hasn't heard of it?
But cats, Jellical ball It's a reimagining of the original musical. And Sunday morning's Mo Raka is speaking with some of the people behind it. This production of Cats. humanizes. the animal.
We wear no whiskers, we wear no ears. We wear no fur per se, All about fur is full. and fashionable. But It says if The original cats had gone Through A dissection. We open up the animal.
discovered some organs there, reconnected them. made them breathe differently. And James, what would you say? This isn't, is this just a revival? Um, simply put, What Cats does is show that Our age is not a barrier.
Ageism is. I think Chastity? I think it's a revolution, it's a reintroduction. I think it also shows people a free world. And when you see a free world, you begin to fight for one.
And because it's reimagined in a community of disenfranchised people who did more with less, it's showing that you can be free. And it humanizes us, especially in these times where they're trying to make trans and LGBT people, LGBTQ. Caribou soup, whatever you say it. You know how Junior says it. I wait with how good he says it.
L-G-B-T-Q-R-A. Lesbian soup. Yeah, lesbian what?
Soup. See, you know, look vi vegetable soup, you have all these see. Even sitting here, It is one thing that to be understood about cats. It is the merging of of Broadway And ballroom. That's one View.
It's Britain and America. That's another view. is transatlantic. That's another view because what I say transatlantic, I could also say the middle passage, and everybody understand exactly what I mean. I don't want to appear abrupt.
But I'm not going to forget my. Culture, tradition, or ancestry. That's why I purposely wear overalls to show the world. That a sharecropper A American Indian, is now on Broadway. and a role that was created Forty-five years ago, for solely another social constructed view of race.
I don't want to sit here with the anticipation of, oh, cats and Lloyd Rubber and oh, ballroom, and we finally arrive. Cat show, we have always been here.
Now we get to meow. Yeah. How much of you are we seeing on stage. Like the vodka absolute Because the Sydney, who plays Rum Tug Tugger, said, I thought it was really interesting, said We're playing ourselves. That's what makes it different than maybe a more typical Broadway show.
Does that track with you, Ken? I agree. I mean, when we were doing Cats 45 years ago, we were cats. We went, we workshop. We had a big, they put us in a big pen and we played around as kittens and we had cat-like Um Features, we wore leotards with fur and wigs with ears and tails.
You were like, it's a spectacular dance musical, and there really isn't a story. production of it Really tells a story of ballroom and celebration and transformation. And it's not. It's not a revival at all. It is truly a reimagining.
It's a reimagining of the story of cats. And James, for those who don't know. What is a ballroom? Ballroom is a space and a place for you to have freedom of expression and freedom of speech. for you to use your creativity and your imagination.
A perfect example for the time period is when you had entertainment. Right? Um Why wouldn't I want to be a Black May Wess. come up and see me sometimes. Why wouldn't I want to be Betty Davies, Mrs.
Scuppington? I will always be beautiful to you. Why wouldn't I want to be Joan Crawford or Dorothy Dandridge or Marilyn Monroe, but I wasn't allowed because of civil liberties being denied? I wasn't given the opportunity to go to the best of schools, so I watched theater. And I learned from the Trodinsky period of turn to the light, walk against the curtain, go in the wind.
Pick up the teacup, yes. I learned that. and how I was able to elevate it in my background so that people would truly understand. I watch soap operas.
So I learned how to be vicious vixens. I felt like I was in TCM right now. I was hoping you'd go to also to Now Voyager to the end of it, but oh yes. All about Eve and Lorella and Gloria. Which inspires me.
And the audience gets it. And I'm going to tell you how fierce they get it. The other night I had performed. And Nicole from Sunset Boulevard. Came and they announced that she was in the building.
Nicole Skirts and Gertz.
So I went downstairs to greet her. And One of her entourage said to her and the photographer, Yes, please take a picture of the two Norma Desmonds. And I turned to my cast and said, See, didn't I tell you all that at PAC? Let me have my Norma Desmond dementia moment. I understand.
And that's what. Gus is saying theatrically and visually that I want to be Forever young. And Chassity, can you talk a little bit about what you're bringing to Grizabella, a role that a lot of people know? Yeah, I feel like, I mean, even going back to the question of ballroom, you know, a lot of people were shunned, especially black and brown queer people. Their families kicked them out.
Ballroom, you came together, you had a chosen family, and it was like our underground Hollywood to compete against one another. And what I'm bringing to this is I say I always carry those girls, the women from ballroom on my back, who were silenced, who weren't able to be them full selves at the times because we didn't know where we fit in.
So with Grizabella, it's a redemption story. I feel like it's my redemption story. I feel like it's the trans women from that era who could not be them full selves. I always think of Octavia when she said she wanted to be a household name. Like a lot of us weren't able to live in our truths.
Because I didn't know where I fit in. I end up doing things that sometimes I regretted later on. Like playing roles. Just life, like life itself, taking me to doing things. That I didn't want to do to survive.
And Grizzabella, she goes out into the world and then she wants to come back to her community because the world didn't accept her and embrace her for the woman that she was. And so, what I bring here is I'm carrying that pain that I once had, that where I felt like I didn't fit in anywhere. And I'm bringing that and those things and just trying to be embraced by my community who once elevated me and gave me flowers and are now turning my back because I felt, you know. life. Hit me.
Mm-hmm. and the song. Because everybody waits for the song. How did you even begin to approach it? Did you feel like you were climbing a mountain or?
It was so scary. And then you have such a song that is one of the most popular songs on Broadway.
So I just wanted to do it my way. I did listen to different people, of course. Like I've heard the song time and time again. But I wanted to just really express the pain and the comfort in the song because the song is comforting and it's pain. And so I'm just really remembering some of the things that I went through, good and bad.
And the time, and I want people to remember the good times that they had when I sing the song. And that's how I approached it. Champs. When Andre makes his entrance, the crowd goes bananas. As One of the great authorities on the ballroom.
What is he doing that's making them go bananas? He's alive. Neening.
Okay. Here's the short version. I I'm God-fearing. I believe my higher power name is Jehovah. Just because I have a higher power doesn't mean that I'm religious.
It means that I believe there is a God and it's not me. When I see Andre come out as Deuteronomy, Here's the connection. not only with the audience, but with me. When I was coming up very young, I could not afford to go to Broadway and purchase a ticket. to go inside her theatre.
I went outside the theater and heard Andre in the waves. Because when he was starring in The Wiz, when he was The Wiz. Yes, I was outside when they would open the door. We would stand there and I would listen to him. And I would go back with the understanding of, okay, well, Jehovah.
I've been to Broadway, I've heard one of us. Kudos. and come back to border. And in boardroom, me being the master of ceremony, I allowed People, ordinary people, like fill this seat to evoke. The laughter, the crying, the tearing, the emotion.
He did that. for so many Decades. He did that with the tenacity, the ferocity, the ability, the longevity to create black excellence. I say that he's and I both is unapologetic Unbobby. But together we are unapologetic, unbothered, and unscathed.
Because in my lifetime, I am the only one that can say I could not afford to see him, and Jehovah placed me next to him. It's beautiful. That was the short version?
Now you know it was gone.
So, I mean.
So you've made a great case for kind of what Binds you together, but you come from different worlds, sort of aesthetically, right? To simplify it, Broadway and ballroom. What is James doing that makes the audience so excited, Andre? Complete it um Junior Labaya is completing the equation. that is at the heart of cats.
The Jellicole Ball. Which is one of the reasons why we are now on Broadway. The marriage here is ballroom And Legacy Theatre. Ballroom is down in a picture frame. Ballroom came from the underground.
And now it is above ground. Do you have any mixed feelings about ballroom being above ground now?
Well The mixed feelings come from how I'm going to be perceived or interpreted by others. Because underground could also be called what it originally was back then, slumming. Speak easy. Mm-hmm. After our spot.
Bathtub gin. remingled. And then it was raised to In other states, the Chitlin Circuit, you know, the poor. the poor meat of the hog. that we survived with greens and beans and rice.
Now we're no longer in hiding. And what I mean by hiding right, like right here. Do you know what it is for me to I'm sitting on the street? where I used to sleep in the bath houses. I'm sitting on the square where I used to say You want to do something strange for change?
I'm sitting Around the corner from Show World, where all of my ancestral sisters, I know them by name. The time period. That I can say I can mention your voice as Gus. In the wave of the hand, yes. The whole Presentation.
is but the humanity of it is that I get to hear people whether on stage or in the booth. Say I identify with you. I never identified with Gus before. I thought he was the most horrible part of the play, and now you are the play. But with ballroom, it's like bittersweet because now a lot of people are doing ballroom but don't know the history of ballroom.
So now that it's so, you know, it's not underground anymore.
Now you have it in every other country and everyone's doing ballroom, but they don't know the core of ballroom or why ballroom was even founded. That's very interesting because it's permeated pop culture in such a way. A lot of people don't know that the category is was coined by. Junior Lebesgue. But the operative word is permeate.
It was just a matter of time because it was cooking. Cooking, yeah. That's why it's the i the operative word is culture. ballroom culture. Broadway now understands.
that it was hungry for this. Ballroom It's ending. The drought. Right. That was on Broadway.
Yeah. Because this even even the way it is presented in the Broadhurst Theater is just a minuscule part of what Yeah. The tip of the iceberg. View? I love when you say that the drought, the land was parched.
The land was parched. There was a famine. But underneath it were these green shoots. Waiting. To feel the sun waiting to say, this is the beauty, this is the nourishment you've been waiting for.
And you've been in this audience.
Okay? And we need to talk about the audience. As people say in live theater, the audience is an important part of the experience, but this goes to another level. Ken, you're up there, you have a vantage point. How would you describe what's going on with this audience?
Well, I'll tell you uh with the half dozen or so Broadway shows that I've ever done, or shows any place performed around the world, I've never experienced an audience so hungry and so ready to give everything to us. And it's the most joyous thing I have ever experienced ever in live theater. There were eight standing ovations on Saturday night. Eight. Just spontaneous people jumping to their feet.
And it's pretty amazing to witness that.
So the audiences are very important for this show. We give them something. to chew on. and then they're just, they devour it. and give it right back to us.
There's a phrase that I State as gus. and I know how to let the cat out of the bag. What I evoke, what we evoke in this revitalization, this restoration. of cats is that we allow the audience their emotions.
Something that we never do as humans That is our non-verbal communication. We don't show it. And I'm gonna give you a prime example of who I adore. And I'm going to give you the secret. O-P-U-L-E-N-C-E opulence, you own everything, everything is yours, was my homage.
So Queen Elizabeth II. because she never showed her emotions. If you saw the crown that bear witness, she never showed it. She could sit there with toast and cheese and tea and read you to filth. and tell you time is up.
That's what happens here. When Grisabella does it Well Deuteronomy does it even when griddle bones sit up there and go, Uh Right. We let you know that we are Human And thanks to Lord. Lloyd Webber. Yes, I have told him personally.
He gets it. I simply wanted to say that. What in my head? in my heart. in my viscera.
I'm saying to the audience, I see you. And that's why they scream. because they are being visible. No hiding. We're all naked together.
And how much of Andre de Schildes are we seeing on stage?
Well, you're not saying 100% because I am enormous. If I gave you all of Andre de Gilles, the theater would be on fire and there'd be no hose to put it out. But what the audience is screaming about. When Deuteronomy walks Through The Mylar Curtain.
Okay. Tinsel. What they are seeing. is Stillness which escapes every human being. We're always in a hurry.
to go somewhere, to get somewhere. Deuteronomy walks out and says Be still. And that's what he is. Still. It's really a spiritual journey.
I mean, you talk about a spiritual experience. I mean, these two have become my like fairy godmother, fairy godfather. Like, I'm in between a world of pioneer, icon, everyone, like Ken coming from and being one of the originals, and then this person being like the start of ballroom, and this. Like deity, king, like, so to get all of that for me, it's just. It's a blessing.
And then to be able to show people to see in me and Grizabella. Ageism that people, like women, go through, like when you fall, when you're not feeling your best and you're getting older, and things are happening to your body, and the patriarch is looking at you different. Like, you know, they're getting to see those things, like, so they're able to identify with that. And I think that's why, like, they get to see people be free and just be themselves. And I think that's what people love about it.
I also think the reason that they cheer and scream when Andre comes out of that curtain. Is because of his body of work in the American theater. This man has done so much in the American theater. When he comes to that, that curtain, everybody knows this Is royalty. This is the deity.
This is the king of Broadway. You are the king of Broadway? I'm saying it right here. I just want to say that. No, everyone said no.
With power comes responsibility. It's the same way. Everyone feels Manique Andre comes in the room. Yes. Gus Relates to the story lie.
And what I mean by the storyline of the entire music or the entire play. when I bow from the booth. to Deuteronomy is because I see restoration. I can go back to being what I consider to be perfect. The one that has the power to do that, like my higher power does, and this is Deuteronomy.
I bow before sovereignty. I bow before Bible. Restore, my revitalization, my reconstruction, my rebirth.
However, what's even more important Is that the most important thing that I show that gets me to all that I want? And that's what changes everything. I realize That when he says my legs may be tartary, and I may be slow. that I no longer want to be born again. I want to die with the man I've always loved.
Another s service that the Mm-mm. Provides For audiences Is behold at the mirror. And they see themselves. In us So whenever any one of us comes through That curtain. We are gorgeous.
Everyone in this show is gorgeous. And they see that as their reflection.
So what they feel is, oh, I'm gorgeous too. off of that. This is coming in a moment. When Right when trans rights and other rights are being More than debated. Is something more going on here?
Is it crackling more because of the time in which this show is happening? I want to adjust what you what I Thought you were going to say. Go ahead. We are discovering how beautiful we are. and how everything around us is so ugly.
We're not fighting any wars. We accept each other for who we are. We're not there's no jealousy. There's no coverting. You're not doing it from a defensive posture.
No. I was saying that earlier and I didn't finish, but like when we're being villainized in these times, like it humanizes us, the stage, and it shows the nuances and it shows that we have emotions with all that's going on around us. This is a happy place. There's so much joy here, like when people come.
So I think that's what... constantly brings people and it shows people that we are not these villains. We have these emotions, you know?
So I think that I always say that art is activism and that's what's happening. That's right. We are not the monsters. The monster is in the White House. I know I wasn't supposed to say that.
This is just a room full of joy and that's what people come to experience. And um when they leave out the stage door. People are singing, they're crying, they're It's a religious experience for people. It's just about sheer joy. I would like to say, and I'm going to cut to the checks, and please quote me just as I say it.
I have always struggled my entire life. with duality. I love Jehovah God. And I also accept that I am a black. openly gay.
gender nonconforming individual. And what I bring to this theater as Gus. is just because you consider me hopeless. In boardroom I was never helpless. Why does framing this in ballroom work?
Because the place that you least expect to have a miracle is where it becomes a miracle. I think it works because it the uh T S Eliot's uh poems it's as if he wrote it for a queer um environment. We talk about queens and and just representation. Um There are so many. variables that fit within it, that fit within ballroom.
Um and it just They didn't have to change anything. They just took the characters from cats and implemented people into it. And it works on that level, I think. Refuge. You go to the temple.
You get shot at, you go to the mm Mass You get shot at, you go to church, you get shot at. Where can you go? The fears of that. Nobody's shooting anyone at the theater. Security.
I think that, you know, because ballroom being a marginalized community and feeling othered. And This being a redemption story and ballroom having its redemption story, like making just. Not having so much, but being able to still be happy. And I think that's why this merges together because it's a happy place, and ballrooms became our happy place. And there were so many people who had so much stories going on, but when you came to ballroom, you left everything outside and you had a wonderful time.
And that's what's happening now. And let's not forget. I mean that's not. Let this go to waste that you are talking. To four contemporary icons.
each of whom is black. That's history making right there. And to follow that. with this. Isn't it ironic?
That on all levels of the human experience We have taken a fantasy and made it a reality. Come on, come on. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. Fox News is now streaming live on Fox One. When news breaks, we don't just report it.
We go beyond the headlines to get the full story. Get live coverage, in-depth analysis, and perspectives from the voices you trust. all in one place, whether you're at home or on the go. Stay connected to the stories shaping our world. Stream Fox News on Fox One.
Download today. How familiar were you both with cats? the musical before this version. Jaylin? I'm laughing because I was familiar with this musical since I was a a kid in a really kind of like Stereotypically nerdy sense.
I had been watching the Barney movie at my daycare after school, and on the Barney movie, Are the trailers for cats?
Now, I didn't know what musical theater was, I didn't know really what theater was, but I just knew whatever that was that they were doing was making me feel things inside. And I didn't know what it was, and then we went to Blockbuster one Friday. And I saw the big box set with the yellow eyes and the black box, and it was like two VHS tapes. And my mom was like, Are you sure you want to get this? Because we have to pay for this.
And if you don't watch it, then it's a waste of money. And I was like, I'm watching it.
So she got it for me. I sat five inches away from the television and watched all three hours without stopping. Didn't get water, didn't use the restroom, didn't ask for food. And from then on, I've had a strange hyperfixation with this material. But I used to watch it like every day after school.
I would just pop it in and just follow these different cats, you know, as I was watching it.
So so maybe this feels preordained in some way? In some way it feels like I'm having like some kind of like public reckoning with my childhood self, but in the public eye, you know, because I'm just trying to like talk to that Young version of me who felt like in this material was a kind of boundless creativity that I wanted to be a part of from a very early age. And Bill, what about you? What was your exposure to Katz, the musical, before this? My origin story is not nearly as good as that one, but I saw the original Broadway production pretty late in its run.
and enjoyed how immersive it was. Um but didn't uh Didn't think that much about it for years. And then I just had the image. of an older gay man singing the song Memory. in a bar, in a gay bar.
And I thought that would be so moving, like those lyrics and that. You just thought of that. I just thought of that. And but I thought, well, I would never get permission to do that as an artist. And over the years, many years, it grew into a bit of an obsession.
And the more I spent time with the material, the more I realize that, of course, it's not set in a bar, it's set in a ball. It's very explicit in the text. that the jellical ball happens once a year. It's a competitive ball. And the setting is clearly ballroom.
and that Grizabella is not a gay man, but is a transgender woman. and it all just became really clear. eventually.
Well, so how did the two of you I was going to ask how the idea came about, but let me ask how the idea came about and how the two of you came together.
So. Around literally a week before I met Bill. I had been joking with a friend about how cool it would be and how ridiculous it would be and how impossible, more importantly, it would be to ever do a production of cats where the cats weren't cats. And We would just laugh about that and just be like, no one would ever allow for something like that to happen with this material. And so it was just kind of like a funny thought experiment that, you know, me and my roommate would play with each other.
That they would just be humans doing the parts. Yeah, and I just kept thinking about how in the 20th century people called each other cat. You know, look at that cat. Oh, that's a sly cat. And what is this cat doing?
And hold up, I don't trust that cat. And just like how easy it would be for cat to just become this kind of word that's used to represent the human and how that's already just embedded in our vernacular. And so then I was directing a show at Second Stage and a group of us went out for drinks afterwards and a couple of friends were there along with who became the eventual casting director of the show, Victor from X Casting. And I told him that I was like having this thought experiment and how the world is falling apart, and I'm thinking about cats. What does this mean?
And he was like, well, you should know who Bill Rausch is because he is reconceiving a production of cats framed around ballroom. And I just, the moment he said that, I knew it was right. I knew it was correct, that that was the way to think about the material. It did not scare me creatively. It, I mean, making it is very scary because it's so vulnerable.
But just like the moment I heard that idea, I was like, that's the right idea. I have to meet this person. And so I two days later was on Zoom with Bill. If you want to talk about that. Yeah, we had our first conversation.
on zoom And by the end of our hour together, we had agreed that we were going to co-direct. It was the most impulsive, but clear, clear, clear thing. Uh that I can imagine. And how familiar were you with the world of ballroom?
Well, I should back up and say that I began to think about this idea and about ballroom and I started working with a really brilliant artist, Josie Kearns, who is our gender consultant and our dramaturg. And I was connected with Omari Wiles, who is a ball-in-my photographer, and who you, of course, know. the three of us during the pandemic. had weekly meetings over Zoom. where we would just dig into the material.
And we did this for almost a year. And by the end of that year-long exploratory process, we had a DAC. That would explain how we wanted to approach the material, that we began to share with people at Andrew Lyd-Weber's. Company. You had to convince Andrew Lloyd Weber to let you do it this way.
Yeah. Was that easy? I wouldn't use the word easy only because nothing about making this is easy. I mean, it's been really rigorous, which actually I think is the biggest compliment that we could receive of that estate was to really feel like they were in the big questions with us about how to crack this. And so they really made sure that the fence was around the cow so that we could free the cow, right?
And establishing that fence, where are our boundaries? What can't we cross? What can we cross? You know, I think that our show exists in this really interesting intersection of. Yeah.
If you break all the rules, it doesn't work. But if you don't break any of the rules, it doesn't work. And so, somehow in the tension of that negotiation, is our production. There are people saying.
Okay. This really makes sense in the world of ballroom. I mean, can you talk about that? Yeah, I mean that's an interesting kind of experience that some audience members are having of this kind of story that they tell themselves that I'm going to encounter this material that doesn't make sense and they see our show and they're like, it makes sense. And That's cool, but I don't even think our main intention was to try to like.
Make some improvement on the original. I really do think our task was to take both Andrew Score seriously and T.S. Eliot's words seriously and the world and culture of ballroom seriously. And what was the kind of magical discovery all through the process is how brilliantly those three mediums. Wanted to talk to each other, seemed like they wanted to dance with each other.
And I think there's some fascinating history in terms of like when we think about contemporary ballroom and you think about the late 70s and 80s, and you think about the time period that kind of Andrew Lloyd Weber was innovating this idea of the mega-musical and how that's kind of all happening at the same time. And I think what's most in important about how we're thinking about Reviving this show is that we are also leaning into the time that we're making it. And it feels urgent and it feels like now and the joy feels present to the moment. And it doesn't feel like something that happened back then, long ago. And I think people are responding to that.
Joy is such a key word because this show is a joy bomb. People feel so. much the joy coming from this cast and from this stage. I think that the spiritual depth of the material was all already there. T.S.
Eliot's words and Andrew's extraordinary score, there is so much nuance and complexity and depth that's in the material. And we're just really lucky that we're alive at a time when a composer of Andrew Stature is letting us experiment and letting us take a risk like this. Uh I mean, what's so interesting too, thinking about that question is just like... in so many ways Cats, the original production, was more of an event. Than it even was a play.
And in so many ways, ballroom is.
So much like theater, and in some ways more like theater, than it is a traditional competition space, even though both of those things are true. And so I do think that kind of just what's it's been waiting to talk to each other for many years. And it's doing so now. And Bill, did you find that ballroom was a useful device for framing The material Well, the story of cats is the story of a ball. that happens once a year, that's a high-stakes ball in which the characters are competing for the ultimate prize.
That is the story of high-level ball. I mean, it's so organic, it's so material. I mean, I will say, as it relates to the competition, though, we have all these categories, and just because a category is about a particular cat, it doesn't mean that cat wins their category. And so, there's this kind of. interesting drama that gets to have a beginning, a middle, and end in each number that maybe was not there before that I think also audiences are resonating with.
The process of matching the songs and characters with the ballroom categories was one of the most challenging and most thrilling parts of this process. There are certain ones that we hit on immediately and they've stayed completely consistent. Give me an example of that. Tag team performance. Mungo Jerry and Rumpletees are a team of two petty thieves that work together and clearly their category is tag team performance where you've got teams of performers competing.
Well, so many of them, right? From the beginning. Shaylin, do you have a favorite one or one that maybe was more hard won? I felt like a great example of like an idea that was great immediately and then has been so hard to crack was Skimbleshanks because Skimbleshanks is the railway cat and we, I think, immediately felt like you had to contextualize this railway cat through the lens of an MTA worker. And there's nothing more New York than that.
And there's no perfect way to meet this character through a ballroom context and to think about dancers on a train and the whole culture of that.
So all that felt like, whoop, whoop. All that felt like it was right there. But then to how to actually make it work in time and space has been one of the hardest numbers to crack. And in turn, one of the most thrilling to watch be successful. Yeah.
That's great. When people talk about live theater, they say the audience is a big part of it. This is a whole different level. What's going on with the audience? What's happening here?
What is happening here? It's been insane watching these audiences react to the material. Yeah, we've had four previews so far. And all four previews, the audiences lose their minds with joy. And it's that relationship between the performer, and it's the heart of theater, of course, the relationship between.
the audience and the performers. But there's something about the event of this show.
Well, Sidney told me who plays the Rum Tug Tug or. Said he He thought that the actors on stage are playing themselves more Than they might in any other kind of show. That the audience Is really seeing the performer. Is there something about that?
Well, something that I say a lot about this show is that. You know, the way in which we're in the conversation of the spectacle musical, because that's how the original cats was kind of contextualized. The spectacle of this show is humanity. And I think that there's a confrontation the audience is having with themselves when they come into this room that the cast ends up just being a conduit for. When the intermission happens, people want to know who is sitting next to me.
Who was yelling next to me? Who was crying next to me? And why is that 80-year-old and that six-year-old in the same room having a similar experience? And it's been so amazing to see how. Expansive and how many doorways Joy has that people are finding all of these different entryways to attend this event and It's been mind-blowing, and honestly, I don't know if I can even articulate the impact of what it's been like to watch people from ballroom, not from ballroom, from musical theater, old, young, black, white, gay, straight.
enter a room together and prove the common narrative wrong, which is that we don't know how to do this anymore. And every night on Broadway at Cat's the Jellico Ball, we are proving that we have the stamina to be together. And that I think people feel that that's part of the urgency of getting into the Broadhurst is exercising that muscle with joy and rigor. How big a factor is the moment we're actually in? In What's going on in this audience, do you think?
With any piece of live theater, what's happening in the world impacts how you experience the show. But the radical inclusion The celebration of community, the celebration of transformation, and the need to respect. People's names, the the names that people choose for themselves. is at the heart of this enterprise and it's Extremely relevant to our world right now. Do you think that it's making the show crackle even more?
I think so, because I think people need an outlet. People need a place to be with these complications that we live in. And I think it's so rare that you get to exercise the kind of spiritual muscles of humanity through a lens of joy, but that isn't trite and actually does have within it everything you need to hold what you're bringing into the theater every night because we're not creating a utopia. You know, these cats are complicated and messy and dangerous and fun and sexy and standoffish and also inviting. And that is what it means to be human.
It is people peopling all over the place.
Well, right. And to me, it seems pretty unapologetic, right? Yeah. And I think the history of queerness has shown that in every moment of kind of like national speechlessness, To the times that we're in, there has been these kind of queer artists and queer voices that pierce through and hold up a new kind of way of being together, a new kind of way of looking at the moment. And I think that my greatest hope for this show is that we're in the lineage of that great history of.
artists, writers, actors, directors. storytellers who have said, Ah, now is the time for me to stand in the fire and we happen to just be standing there with a big kind of open Armed hug ready for the mess of the world to come into the Broadhurst and learn how to do together. Together, I think that. I would love for people to feel like they could have met our Grizabella out on the street. They could meet Agrizabella out in the world.
And what will you do? How will you respond? To Grisabella, you know, like making that character so human, I think. Brings the proximity of that choice to an audience in a much different way. When you go on the train and you see Grizabella, What do you do?
Ballroom was created Bye. black and brown transgender women. and queer men Two take the most marginalized members of society in multiple ways. and create a safe space in which Pure inclusion and acceptance. and joy could exist.
And that energy, everything that we do. is through the inspiration of the founders of the ballroom movement and the people who practice it today. What is Ballroom doing for Broadway here? Yeah. A ballroom is showing Broadway.
There's another way we can be together. There's another way of doing this. There's another way of making a theater together. Ballroom is teaching Broadway how to be unapologetic, that word that you use to describe these cats. It's also embedded in the process.
So having so many ballroom performers and icons a part of this show. Has really built the capacity of even me as a director to stand in front of the room and say, Yeah, maybe this idea isn't even the best idea yet, but I'm gonna have full confidence in pitching it. Because I'm worth it. I'm worth an idea in the room. And I think that I learned that from ballroom every single day.
So it turns out that ballroom and Broadway go together like I mean, I would say like peanut butter and jelly. Toasted. I think you're going to go to peanut butter and chocolate. But you know, the contrast needs to feel more extreme on paper. And then you need to be surprised by how well they actually go together.
Wait, did you toasted the sandwich then? Yeah, you got to toast it. You got to toast it.
So they melt together. Then you can't really tell where the peanut butter ends and the jam starts. It's that. That's what's happening on stage. That makes me hungry.
We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. Get in the game with the college-branded Venmo debit card. Rep your team with every tap and earn up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash, a new rewards program from Venmo. No monthly fee, no minimum balance, just school pride and spending power. Get in the game and sign up for the Venmo debit card at Venmo.com slash college card.
The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA. Select schools available. Venmo stash terms and exclusions apply at venmo.me slash dash terms. Max $100 cash back per month. Uh Not sure how to tackle your taxes?
Are you sweating the small print? You may be experiencing FOMU. the fear of messing up. The answer? Using TurboTax on Intuit Credit Karma.
They help you get your biggest refund and then we help you do more with it with a personalized plan designed to help you hit your money goals. It's time to take your taxes to the max. Start filing today in the Credit Karma app. Introducing Home Care Plus, a new subscription service from Lowe's that helps make life easier by giving members a hand with home maintenance. Let Lowe's tackle the tasks you keep needing to do, like electric dryer vent cleaning, replacing hard-to-reach light bulbs, and more.
Subscribe to Home Care Plus for just $99 a year and consider your to-do list. Done. Members get more at Lowe's. Available in Select Zip Code Zone. Cancel anytime.
Non-refundable fee. Product purchase required. Terms and service restrictions apply. Details at Lowe's.com slash terms. Subject to change.
The original Cats opened in the fall of 1982. Do you remember what you were all doing when it opened? I didn't exist. Right, I was gonna say I was not alive yet. I was not even a thought.
You just existed somewhere out there in the ether. Right. Okay. That's what I thought, an idea in the jellical universe. Have you all seen the pre-ballroom cats?
Who here has seen it?
Okay. And what were your impressions of that show, baby? I watched the VHS stage recording when I booked this show and I Loved it. I could see why people went up for it in its time. Dougney.
As a kid during the summer, I would go to my public library and I rented the VHS of cats and watched it and fell in love with it. And Deva, what about you? I actually watched the movie through YouTube. It was different. And Then baby showed me the The The original from the 1984 from 1984.
And yes, the dancing. The dancing is over. The dancing is beautiful.
So agreed that. I could see why everyone went up for it. And Sydney? I saw the most recent Broadway revival, and the dancing was incredible, but I didn't. Understand necessarily.
I just thought, oh, this is a big splashy thing. It definitely gave me like. Like 80s-like period piece. Yeah. You know.
And I love that you're willing to admit that you didn't quite get it. Just cats having fun, man. Like, I remember, you know, a lot of tumbling. I remember like a lot of cat moves. Yeah.
Uh uh big like saucer flying into the air. And Silk, what was your impression of the show? I get what a lot of people say about the version that Andrew Lo Reubber made, but to me I loved it. Whenever Mustophiles came out on that pole with the light up vest and was doing his thing and he did his spates, I was like, if that's what I'm going to be doing, I went to Juilliard, so girl, I'll be able to. But of course, this version, I'm walking runaway, so it's totally different.
It's definitely amazing. And Dudney, how do you explain ballroom? If somebody said, what's ballroom, what would you say? I would say it's a space or a community.
Well, it was birthed from Crystal LaBeasia. She stepped away from the pageant scene and wanted to create a space that was for us, for black, brown, POC, queer people to be seen. And so, the ballroom was kind of birthed out of that resilience, right? And so, the space becomes now there are houses, there are different categories. It's not just voguing, there's runway, there's realness, there's face, there's hands performance, there's a list of categories that happen in a ball.
And it all, I think, is about ownership, owning your stripes, owning who you are, stepping into the confidence of who you are as a person in that fullness. And I do think tying it back to the show, I found that during our workshops at the PAC, it was... A laboratory is the only word that can come to mind right now. And also a sanctuary where it was a place where I think Jalen, Bill, Omari Orturo were.
So careful about the integrity of the culture of ballroom, but then also preserving T.S. Eliot's words, Andrew Lloyd Weber's work to make sure we could marry the two.
So, yeah. Every season on Broadway, there are a lot of revivals. This is not a revival. Right, that's a misnomer for this. What is this?
A reinvention. Anybody else? I think a rebirth. A rebirth? A revolution.
A revolution. Reimagining. Reimagining. David, you're on the spot. I was going to say revolution.
Yeah, revolution. Yeah, a revolution. I think ballroom is so theatrical. Making your own costumes or effects, putting production numbers together with your house members. Like, so much of it is super theatrical.
So, as much as there are differences, I feel like what's this what's similar really is what brought it together seamlessly. I feel like like for the work, for all of us, like Individually, we've been able to find our own selves within our character roles. And for me, being able to come onto the stage and also authentically be myself and perform and be Mistophiles, but at the same time be like, well, What would Silk dew, to Amp up what Mustopheles would be from Andrew Laurel Weber's cats to this one. Just like In simpler sense is what I said before, like really it's just finding the collectiveness within ourselves, within the character. I feel like that's what has brought the authenticness to this production.
Well, I was gonna say, if it's what you're describing, sounds different than acting a role. Right, you literally being yourself. you're being yourself. And is that what people are connecting to? Probably.
Yeah, I mean in a major way. I mean for the actors in the industry alone, it's opened so many doors to who can be. In musical theater? got into musical theater. I dropped out of school when I was 18.
to come and be. in entertainment. And musical theater seemed like the easiest way in because there's open auditions and you can go to things and just like roll the dice and see what you get. Um But I didn't feel seen as a type like for who I was. I was always trying to be shoehorned into something else.
And I was a huge club kid at the time, like going out all the time. And that's actually where I saw my first. like elements of Vogue and people in the ballroom community were out in the club life.
So now, all this time later, I never as a theater person saw myself in Cats, the musical, it wasn't on my radar. But Mm. I get to be my whole self. as the Rum Tumtugger. all of the things about me that are not necessarily the things that I would ever show in a normal audition, like going out or that IKEK at the club or even like walking into the room with some sass or making a joke that lets everybody in the room know I'm queer.
It's just something you don't do. You, in fact, are kind of taught, like you walk into a room as a male. and you turn on the realness. Which is a category I walk in this show, one of the categories. And so to be able to be out there and let that all drop.
As a a male of color. It's Never happened for me. And I've had so many people come up to me on the street who've seen the show like. Thanking me. thanking this production and us them being able to see themselves, like when they're in the wings of Aladdin or in the wings of thoroughly modern Millie before they enter going, ha, ha, ha, and then walking on like this, right?
That they get to see what you really want to do. And so I think it's really for the industry opened. The doors, so many things came right after cats. Yeah. Saturday church, you know, drag the musical.
And, you know, we've had We've just had a lot of opportunity now. And I think on the same level. the community. the larger LGBTQ plus community feels seen. And I think that for the first time for cats, if you're asking what we've done for the show.
We've given it a story. We've given it a through line that you can follow and there's a character for every single person who comes to watch the show. to by which their lens by which to see The path and where they fit in. And it's occurring to me that when people are in the audience, they're seeing. Sydney as the rum tug tugger.
And with all due respect to Terence v. Mann, who was great, who originated the role on Broadway, with all that makeup and all that. You're seeing the character, and that's all you're seeing. But here you're seeing the performer and bring, right? Is that sort of interesting?
Absolutely. You're seeing me. out at the club. Like on any given night when we go kiki, I'm the rum tum tugger. Will you go kiki?
That's how I kick it. A kiki is like a party. It's like when we go out and have fun. Like a key party? Yeah, this is a key.
Okay, all right. Like this is a kiki. Like we want a kiki. Oh! Oh, he's got the little key.
Little keys. Are they?
So, baby, when you're performing as Victoria, how much of baby are we seeing? It's all baby. It's all baby. And that's been the beauty of. This also being my first job, like my first Professional job is they asked for me because I'm Tutan Woman's Performance of the Year.
In the southeast, and like all of my twenties, I was like traveling and like going to balls. And so But also, you know, I have like theater experience from when I was in high school and from when I was a child. Just being able to bring my story, I feel like Victoria represents like women's performance. All over the world because it's a category that's like been in the ballroom for a long time, and so I feel like it's nice when, like, My other women's performance friends like come to see the show and they're like, wow, like You're doing this, you know? It's special and it's it's something that is for like Me, but like it's definitely like a bigger picture.
kind of thing. Like each role in the show, I feel like it's it's a much bigger picture. And Dava, what does it feel like on the stage? What are you getting from the audience? We definite I definitely feed off of the audience's roar.
Or even like if they don't like me, I kind of feed off of that too. They loved you.
Well, sometimes when I beat somebody in the show, some people aren't so happy about it. And I kind of, I don't know, I kind of live. Be mad, because this is my trophy finally. I really feed off of the audience, no matter what their reaction is. And I don't think I've never been in a show where a bad reaction, I'm allowed to give something.
You have to ignore it. You have to pretend. I have to ignore it. Exactly. I don't have to ignore it.
She's very confrontational. I'm very confrontational in the show.
So, yes. And Dudney, do you feel like the audience is Part of the show, the cast even? Yeah, especially in the pack, I think the favorite moment for me was during the top of Act II. We have a scene, it's called The Moments of Happiness. And it's a projection that shows icons, trailblazers, those who have paved the way, right?
We're honoring legacy, tradition, all of the above. But I remember in the start of Act II, I kind of creep in the aisle, and I just kind of like look around. And I felt for the first time locking eyes with audience members that we're getting emotional because it's like we can be here and live in this moment and be who we are because of all of those people who have paved the way.
So I've never in a show, ever on stage, shared a moment. And I've done a bit of immersive theater, but this is the first time where it's like you are, you could literally hold someone's hand, you know, right next to them in the audience and be like, yeah, I feel it too. Like you're safe here, you know? You are tearing down that fourth wall. Yeah, and I've heard the intermission.
Is a place where people meet each other, they start new relationships, and it's like. Yeah. It's a party. It really is.
So our audience may not be familiar with the terms kiki and realness.
So who wants to help define them for us? Realness is uh being able to walk in the world The everyday world without being clocked. And being clocked is when somebody like recognizes that you're gay.
So For men. It's sort of um a self-protection mechanism to be able to like Yeah. Realness to me tends to be like a lack of expression. A lot of like what you see of stereotypical males, it's like when you say what's up, it's like Sup. Yeah, it's just like you know, little things that you do when you see a realness panel, like.
a like female like Vogue femme battle. They're going off. There's so much happening to express the feminine. With a realness battle, it's. You know, it's a lot of stillness and a lot of posturing.
And so realness, that's realness for men. Let's move on to Kiki.
So who wants to take Iki? Akiki is a chat. It's it's winged, you're finding your friends and you're like, girl, I don't know. Yeah. That's like you're giggling.
It's like not serious. It's like... Fun, vibes. Vibes. It's vibes.
Lots of jokes. And it might actually sound like a little bit like. I would say the kiki kiki is like, girl, what the hell is going on up there? Right, like, girl, oh my god, you see that? Like, yes.
That's it. Yes. And what is the history of this? That's the clap. That's like, yes, go off.
That's the clap. That's like a mess. And everybody does something amazing. It's also the middle finger, not the first finger. This is ballroom.
But this is a sign of approval. Yeah, basically. That's it. Definitely.
Well, thank you all. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm back. I'm really back. School Spirits returns. Why am I here? I'm not dead, right?
This place is an absolute death trap. We need to get out of here. Ow. School Spirits new season now streaming only on Paramount Plus. Me and my brother, we grew up off the grid.
A new Paramount Plus original documentary explores the wild, true story of two brothers. They were dubbed the Wild Boys. No driving records, nothing tangible. What's their story? Who shook a small town after they emerged mysteriously from the Canadian wilderness?
Are they criminals? Maybe they're a cult. Who are these guys? Why are they here? It's not my job to tell you the truth.
Wild Boys, strangers in town, now streaming on Paramount Plus.
