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Now Iowa Debri and Don Scheadle are appearing together on Broadway. In the play, Proof. They're talking with Sunday Morning's Tracy Smith. Let's go way back to the germination of this project when you were presented with the prospect of working with Dawn. What'd you think?
I was very happy. And I was I mean I honestly was like oh I don't know if you would Do this. Like, I feel like, I don't know, he's on. I can't look at him now. I feel very strange.
But he's on, like, my Mount Rushmore event.
So I was shocked that he even said yes. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Right? Like, we're saying other names, but like, we're not really, right? Like, it's, it's, please.
And then when we did the First, sort of reading and workshop with each other just was like kind of instant. It was cool. Yeah, it felt great. I felt, I mean, as soon as I've been a fan of IOS for a long time too, and as soon as, like she said, as soon as we were in the same room together, it felt like we'd known each other a long time. And I immediately felt this fatherly.
no instinct. And I had to during the rehearsals remind myself that It's not, you're not my kid. We have to actually serve this text and I can't, you know, I have to become Robert and Don and how Don wants to be with Io. Robert has to now be with Catherine and what does that mean? And where does that meet and all of that?
But it was an instant like. Not on just that level, but a respect and a peer level and someone who I know takes the work seriously. I knew that we were going to be in a dynamic where we were going to push each other and protect each other and everything that I think the play requires. I felt like I had a great part. Even in those in-between stages, when we knew that it was going to happen, but we didn't know when.
you would text me and be like, I've been looking at this thing or look at this line. And that was really encouraging to me as well to be like, right, yeah, like this is how deep I want to go. And sometimes I feel like you camera with people and you're like, oh, okay, like we're not. maybe interested in the same things. And it was it was really, yeah, heartening and and exciting to know.
I don't know. That's how deep you were gonna go. Yeah, it was, like I said, it was a kindred spirit right off the bat. And an immediate, also just like a no. There was no like, we didn't feel like we had to be polite.
With each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just run to it. Like, I think this, I think this, let's look at this, let's talk about that. It's like, oh, we're already like.
Peer level, seeing partners, let's go. That's great when you don't have to get through the niceties. You're just in. You just went in.
So, do you have a father-daughter relationship? Off stage? Um, I do check up and see what time she's going to bed and when she's texting too late. I'm like, hey. Yeah.
We do have a show tomorrow. Yeah, you actually do that. And then also, I feel like I do that for you. And I'm like, maybe you want to put a coat on now. Maybe you should wear a hat right now.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I feel like you, and also. Less my dad, my mom, but probably send me the same number of like Instagram reels also a week. I guess it's very dad. Like, okay, cool.
Another Instagram from Don. I like them, though.
Okay. About like what? What Instagram reels? They're actually, a lot of them are math. A lot of them.
A lot of them are math. Yeah. I think it's interesting that David's been able to be in the room with you. I mean, I think about you do Shakespeare. Clearly, that dude's not in the room with you, right?
What's it like to have? Have him there with you. I think it's been very helpful at every step of the way to be able to ask him specifically about certain lines and what the intent was. Are we straying far from the root of what your intent was for this? Or are we on the nerve?
Or are you into a new thing? Like when we did the reading a year ago, without trying to give away what happens in the play for those who don't know it and haven't seen it. As soon as we finished the reading, he said, I don't know if I got the ending right. I think I want to try something. At the end of this, that's new.
And it's like, you know, you already won the Pulitzer Prize, and you're good to still tinker and good to still play with this thing that is a living, breathing. You know, organism for him, and that's great because we've been in other situations, I've been in other situations where they're like, That's it, that's the text, don't change a word, that's what it is, it's sacrosanct, don't move it. And he's like, No, I want you guys to feel. I want you guys to own it.
So, even people who are familiar with the play are seeing kind of a whole new play.
Some new stuff.
Some new stuff, yeah. He also said that he wanted to push you to create something new. And I think about the visual of pushing you. Are there times when you feel like you're pushed to fall over? Is that part of the process?
I mean, yeah, honestly. I think it's like the idea. A teacher once said this to me, and I think about it a lot. I think we think similarly in this way, but like I would rather Fail spectacularly, then like succeed with nothing. You know, like I'm middling.
Yeah. And I think so much of this process. For me, I think because with TV and film, a lot of it can feel quite result. Oriented. You have to finish X shot by this amount of day, and we need you to stand here and be here.
And oh, because of the way that we shot this thing, even though it comes after in the scene, you know, we shot it before, so we have to match it and da da da da da. And with this, it really has just been about process and about pushing and about trying. And that Yeah, that freedom is it's like it was kind of confronting and a little bit terrifying, but that was what was so is so and continues to be so exciting and special about it. I think we all get to like push each other. And I think these characters Um I think definitely.
both Catherine and Robert really feel all of their feelings very fully. And I don't know if it freely is necessarily the right thing, but definitely really. Fully. Fun to sort of have that mirrored in a process. And material.
It's like, it's not exactly bipolar, but there's some of that in there that we can go here, and then the switch is here, and the switch is there, and what triggers that. Like we're still mining all of that stuff, I think, trying to figure out how to navigate that. But it's supported in the text. That's cool. And it's cool that's just a like the play it's a living thing and each night it's going to change.
Yes. That's part of the excitement. Um The play is obviously a lot about what you Take from your parents what you give to your parents. And I'm curious if you've thought about your own parents differently. It's kind of hard not to.
Yeah, it's impossible for me not to. I mean, you know, I wish that there wasn't such overlap in some of these places, but. I very much feel without being too woo-woo or esoteric about whatever. I I d I feel very I feel my parents. I feel them when we're doing this.
play. It's like I feel my father strongly. I feel my children strongly. the relationships very, very strongly. And um I think it's helpful.
and we had a happy accident in one of the performances uh in the last scene where Ayle bent down and her knit cap came just fell off of her head and she picked it up and put it on my head and It was just like one of those happy accidents that you love to have happen in live theater. She immediately, that's what I'm saying. We were so there, there was no, like, what do I do with the hat? She's like, this goes on you. And it was just.
It was great. Yeah. It's great. I was like, oh yeah, you she's a real one. Yeah.
Yeah. It's weird. No, it's a weird it's one of those weird things where it's like, Yeah, I remember it and I'm like, it is great, but also even you recalling it, it's like it just yeah, it breaks your heart. Um, but I think that's uh It's a weird thing that we all go through that you don't realize you're going to go through. Whoa.
Yeah, but when it changes and all of a sudden you realize like now I'm taking care of my parents, now my my parents sort of my child. And also then you're like, wow, you were a kid once too. And this you didn't think that this would happen to you. And it's all You know, happening in a weird way, if you're lucky, if you're lucky. Right.
You know, that's very true. If you get the grace of getting to go through that. Yeah. Last night, uh people stood before curtain call before you even came back out. What is it like to walk out and see people on their feet already?
I think it's intoxicating, and at the same time, for me, I always tell myself, like, hey, it's great, that's not what we're. Here for. I'm glad, and it means that there was a connection, it means that people felt it, it means that people were with it, and I appreciate all that, but I don't want to be seduced by like the result of the thing. You know, I just want to know that if they sat down and didn't stand and gave us the like we felt it, I'm like, that's just as good. I just want to know that we're doing the job of what the play is asking us to do, that we're not.
It's not about us personally. It's really about that we're doing the play justice. That's what we want to do. You have made a point of making this play accessible and affordable. Why was that so important to you and how did you go about it?
I mean, it was important to, I think, both of us, because theater is a part of both of our foundations. I know especially, I mean, speaking for myself, Being able to afford tickets was the only way that I could see theater. And a lot of that was just through rushing, or I did, you know, like. Theater when I was a kid, and we would have, you know, very, you know, parents doing drives to be able to like buy tickets and things like that. These just community efforts.
And then a few years ago, I went to London and saw some friends in a play, Taylor Russell and Pop Siadu, and they were talking to me about their student. Ticket. Initiatives, and I think I just kind of logged it in the back of my head. I was so impressed by it. And then when we got together, again, it's like we were just speaking the same language and Then I was like, okay, again, another moment where I'm like, Don is meeting my energy in the best way and is like on these calls.
And if we're gonna do this, let's do this. And yeah, it's very exciting to me.
So we have like a few. Initiatives that aren't. Yeah, and giving access to people who otherwise would not be able to see this piece. You know, the price point is real. Uh and the production value requires that you charge certain amount, but it does exclude uh a lot of the people that you want to be able to experience this.
So it was important to us and ultimately important to Mike, our producer, and everyone else involved that We figure out ways to Expand that. And not to get too into it, but you put your money where your mouth is. Yeah. You've contributed some funds. Absolutely.
Yeah. Because it's a, I don't know. To me, it's like it's the. not even just the right thing to do, it's like it's the sensible thing to do. And I think we also hope that like the more of our film and T V colleagues that come in, if they feel inspired to do things like this as well, you know, the more that People will be able to just experience this world.
Like my life, my molecules have been changed by the live. Performances and experiences that I've been able to have.
So if we can even. One person, you know, make that available to them. Yeah, and we know that it's, you know, as I was saying, it's a transformative thing that can happen in that theater, right? And it's unlike any other. Medium.
So to be able to sit there live and experience that and the storytelling and the Okay. It can change you. You want people to be able to be chased? We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. Real skin results start with one daily ritual.
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You mentioned the producers. Two of the producers are Barack and Michelle Obama. Does that take it to another level? Oh, I didn't even tell you. He texted me the other day.
After Two days ago. He said, Great job, Tella, great job. He didn't see that. The higher ground person reported back and. They're all over it.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, they are. It's great to have them involved and for them to also be a part of this giving back and a part of the experience.
trying to open up the aperture, so to speak.
So uh it's nice to to have that in the back pocket. Does that add to pressure at all to have President Obama and Michelle Obama and the United States? golf together so much and have a that competition over there. Maybe, but that's where all the like, that's where most of it is, happens, is on the golf course. Fair enough.
For you, Io, does it add to the pressure? In a weird way, um... No, I guess, because I remember even like I was like, this Their involvement to me is in line in a strange cosmic way with, I think, a lot of the questions that this play is asking. And obviously, there's a lot of ties as well with Chicago. You know, just questions like: what does genius look like?
What does success look like? What does legacy look like? And why? Do you think one way or the other or not? And are you open to?
Seeing something else and feeling something else, and you know, and realizing that actually you're not feeling something else, you know. And so, I don't know, in a weird way, I'm kind of like, well, even if they weren't involved, that's like, I think that this, I would hope that this production, these feelings, these questions we were asking would still be of the same level. But yeah, I mean, obviously, it's like deeply cool. My mother is very happy. Your mom's happy.
Yeah. It's got to be a nice phone call to say, hey, guess who's helping to produce this? Yeah, literally. I would like to meet him. Yeah, of course.
Of course, we will meet. Can you promise that? Like, yeah, I can hook you up, maybe. I know I can't promise that. I'm scared.
They're actually like deeply charismatic. And I don't know. I don't need them to be like friends with the Obamas. I don't need that. You are a very nice gentleman.
Brock was texting me the other day.
So funny. We talked a little bit about. Your beginnings in theater, but I just want to get briefly your beginnings. I'm sure you know that Don was Templeton the Rat. I tell her every morning.
Obviously. Of course. I actually wear this suit. Yeah. Still fits.
It's crazy, right? Shocked.
Sort of alarming. Did you do that moment like Don had where you know that early role that you said, oh my goodness, this is for me?
Well, there's certainly, yeah. My elementary school theater teacher and she ran our children's theater group, which is called NCT, the Neighborhood Children's Theater Group. We would also go around and we would like sing at nursing homes and baseball games. And she cast me in The Wizard of Oz when I was Four, I think, because I was young. I was young for my grade, and she cast me in the Wizard of Oz because I was also the smallest in the class at the time.
And I was the smallest version of the witch that screamed.
So I'm melting, I'm melting, I'm melting. The way we did it was we would have three, and I was the smallest.
So I was going to be like, I'm melting. And I was like, I killed it. You know what I mean? I'm living a warm-up. Absolutely.
And then I, to my mom, I remember even being like, yes, three or four and being like, we need to go to Blockbuster and rent The Wizard of Oz so I can study how to do I'm melting. And whatever VHS we got, it had like the bone, like the bonus scenes at the end that showed you the behind the scenes. And then in that version, there was a trapdoor. And I became convinced there was a trapdoor that was going to be set up at our school. And that I would get stuck under.
Oh, dear.
So then I went to Mrs. McCourt and I was like, I can't, like, please, I can't get stuck in this trapdoor. And I was like crying. She was like, sweetie, like. Like, we're in elementary school in Boston.
We can't afford a trapdoor. Like, this is not happening. But I basically cried so much that she had to give me another part, and then I was the coroner. And then I got a solo, so I got to sing.
So it was actually your diabolical it wasn't planned, it just worked out that way. It just worked out that way. And then a few years later, I got my Fru Macera, which, you know, that's pretty iconic. Yeah. Yeah.
That is very iconic. Frumisera at what age? Maybe six or seven, which there's a video of that. I've shown it. There is a video.
It's amazing. It's yeah, it's haunting. It stays with you. Yeah, and I stayed in character all throughout the intermission and second act. And I ran as a ghost screaming.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's very method this year. Yeah, yeah.
Well, I shook it out of me young. I didn't know that that's what I was doing. Oh, I'm doing method actually.
Okay, because I'm over it.
So to be back doing live theater, I mean, you think about those seeds that were planted when we were just babies, both of you.
So to be back doing it has got to feel. Incredible. Yeah, it was trippy when we, because we've only been in the theater like nine, eight or nine days, a really short time. And when we first saw the set, and I remember upstage before we first came on stage to do the thing, and the light changed, and I had this crazy, like, Flashback And I was telling my wife about it, and she said, Oh, like the last time when you did the top dog at the public, I was like, No, like when I was in eighth grade, you know, it was like a super flashback. Like, oh, wow, I remember this feeling of like.
The butterflies, and like, oh, I'm about to walk on stage and do this thing.
So it's, yeah, it's still very much. It's still very much in us. I feel like sometimes, also, I'm sure this happens to you. Like, when I say that I'm doing a play, and people are like, I don't know how you do it. Like, how do you memorize those lines?
And in a weird way, I'm like, I don't know either. I just know that. I I had been doing it and and probably I had those same Questions too, and then and then they just like want to. I don't know. And from the line notes that we probably didn't have.
Maybe we didn't. Yeah. Shout out the stage manager. Shout out, Sarah. Shout out, Sarah.
Yeah. There's notes every night. Yeah, every night. That's the fun of it. It's an evolving thing.
It's a living thing. Isn't that fun? In the way that being humbled is fun. Yes. It's fun.
In the way that being humble is fun. Is there something to that, like getting notes? I mean, you both are at a point in your career where, you know, people might be scared to give you notes in film. It's not happened for me yet. But no, yeah.
And like, you know, as I said, it humbling, it is level setting, and it is necessary. You know, it's like, I don't want to say a wrong word. David thought very carefully about every word he put in this play. And I want the audience to hear every word. And I want them to follow along and understand what he intended because.
You know, it's in in many things, but definitely in theater the word is King.
So we want to service that.
So I don't, I wrinkle a little bit when I get some of the notes. Like, I did say that. And then I'm like, I probably did say that. It's cool though. I mean it's like hearing you talk about this and talking about it, it just makes me feel like, I don't know.
We're kind of nerds at the end of the day, and we got lucky enough to the thing that lights us up and excites us that gets to be our job.
So even when it's like, Something like a line note or a note from Tommy to try something differently, it's It's an exciting challenge that you get to try to conquer and a puzzle you get to try to figure out. You know, I get to dig deeper into this thing that that really, you know, kind of sets me on fire. No doubt. Very lucky. Very lucky.
What has been the biggest challenge?
so far. Mm. I don't know. I don't know if that there's one specifically. I think it's in this kind of nascent stage before we open of still.
trying stuff, it's like, what do you what do we like? locking down like, okay, that works versus It works, but let's keep. What's the elasticity in this moment? Do we want to keep pulling at this and playing with it? And you know, when do you set something?
And when should you be cautious about setting something? You know what I mean? Because it's easy to get into a passion. Yeah, and get lazy and be like, okay, that's that. And I don't have to investigate that anymore.
It's like, no, no, you. We're constantly investigating. Even once we're open, you don't want to be like, this is it. It's like we're still. Working.
So that brings up an interesting point because with film and TV, there's a certain point where you have to walk away. The director says you're done, right? But with this, you really can keep picking at it and picking at it. And is that good? And can that also be better?
I think it's very good. I personally think it's very good. I think that. It's part of the contract that people Make when they come in to see a play. They're like, I don't want to see a canned experience.
I don't want to see something that. Five audiences ago saw the exact same play. You know, I want to have the basic. Framework and understand, you know, what it is that we're doing, but within that, It's trying to find how these moments can move. And as you were saying too, it's like it's between us.
And it's like jazz in that way, where you don't, no one's leading, no one's following. You're like, I did that because you did that. You're like, well, I did that because you did that. And we're both, we're always experiencing this thing together. There's no decision that's made individually.
It's always a collective decision about how things move, you know. Yeah. Do you think now that you have this relationship? Do you think that you'll work together again? God, I hope not.
Ha ha ha ha ha!
So well timed. There was no way that was going to be any other answer than that. Good. Yeah, good. You talked about this briefly, but what are your hopes for this play?
Oh man. I hope that just for us as a company, we just continue to keep. growing and exploring and Um we were just saying this the other day. I'm like I feel like sometimes phrases can seem like They're a bit trite, but I really do mean there's like a safety. With this group, a safety to explore and to feel and to get messy with each other and with the work.
That's just been really cool for me. And I think Part of why I wanted to do this was also to help Myself remember. The joys in releasing expectation. Yeah. And This Form.
I mean, I think there's, yeah, there's nothing else like it. You really, you cannot have any expectation. All you have is presence, presence of moment, presence of being, and Presence of connection with each other. And so that's kind of my. Yeah.
It's hard. And I co-signed that. And great to continue to practice that as an artist. and remind yourself of that. And also, you know, to Sometimes you don't know where the line is until you've crossed over the line, but that's where you find more stuff.
And like you said, I want to play it safe. I want to You know, push myself into something and have it be like, well, that didn't work, you know, but I learned something in that exploration, and I don't learn anything if I just sit back and. And just coast, and and and rest on the the fact that we've we have a lot of hours doing this and go, I think I can get this moment by and not challenge. I I'm pretty sure I can coast through this thing. But it's like, no, I wanna go to that place where I'm scared.
And that place where I'm like, I don't know if this is the thing but I gotta I wanna get better. Yeah. Do you think you'll carry this? Does it because you mentioned revitalizing or it's restorative, I guess, you know?
So do you think that you'll carry this into the bear into Oceans. I mean, I think you carry. Hopefully, you're always learning. Yeah. Hopefully, you're in the best situation, you're always learning and you're always.
an amalgam of whatever just happened and I can't imagine we won't grow from this and won't come out of this with More information and hopefully some more ammunition and. And the deeper well. Yeah. The deeper well.
Okay, now I'm going to put you on the spot because you both said that you were fans of each other.
So, favorite Don Cheadle. Moment Role Project. Yeah. I like that tie. I mean, for me, I'm experiencing it right now.
There's nothing for me that's. Wait, I would say that too, then. No, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine.
You can pick some pop tripe thing. It's okay. For me, it's. I would say this. No one has any feelings.
No one's caring. It made me feel like, oh, like, I thought we were both doing a quick fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah.
Yeah. That got real uncomfortable. No, it's cool. No, I know.
Sorry. No, I mean, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. I love, oh sorry, did you?
Oh, are we still going? I think it's a good time. I would, if I were you, I'd just get out of here. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening.
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The hit drama FBI is new, followed by CIA, a high-stakes new series from the team behind FBI, starring Nick Gelfis and Tom Ellis. All new, all night. CBS Monday starting at 8.7 Central and streaming on Paramount Plus.
