Extended Interview: Martin Short

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This Memorial Day, save on Certa Perfect Sleeper X at a retailer near you. This is Jane Pauley. From Saturday Night Live to his hit streaming series, Only Murders in the Building. Martin Short has been entertaining us for decades. but along with his many successes there has been no shortage of heartache.

Now he's looking back on his life and career in a new documentary, and talking with Sunday Morning's Tracy Smith. All right.

So you've been friends with Lawrence Kasdan for more than 30 years now. In 1986.

Now we did a film together called Cross My Heart. that he executed produced. But he was very, very involved on the Saturday Day. He was directed by a man named Arian Bernstein, and that's where I first met him. And You make movies and you do projects.

And sometimes you're in Yugoslavia. with an actor for three months. and you become best friends and you share stories and there's gossip. and then you never see them again. And in but in certain cases I thought No, I w I want to keep I want to keep that person in my life, and Larry Kasden was one of them.

So has this documentary been a while in the making where you talked about it? And why did you decide to say yes to a Martin? You know, Larry Larry phoned me a couple of years ago, I guess, and Said that I want to do a documentary on you. I see I do a perfect moment. I know I want to do a documentary and and and and Imagine and Ron Howard.

And I really believe that This is what we should do. And I said, I don't. really think that's what I want to do. I've written a book and I'm Canadian, we're a little more conservative about revealing everything in our lives and But thank you, but let me think about it, but I don't think so. And then he left me like an eight-minute message on my phone.

I'll tell you why you should do it. And he's so smart. I mean, he's the smartest guy any of us know. And I kind of got off the phone and went. Listening, I went, I guess I have to do it.

So I said yes. And you handed over all of this home volume. All my movies, because I was one of those people that always had a camcorder. Always picking up a camcorder. to film everything.

And um And then Steven Spielberg does the same thing, and then he gave Larry all his home movies of me through the years, 'cause he's been A close friend for 40 years. It's remarkable. Yeah. And did you just say, go? Yeah, I mean I knew that if there was something in there that I wouldn't want, it wouldn't be there.

So you have to-I mean, you wouldn't do that with everyone, but you do that with someone. Who's your close friend that you trust? We trusted him, yeah. Um In The documentary, you say, let me phrase it this way: look from the outside. Your life seems to be an incredible success, your career an incredible success.

You say in the documentary that much of your career was failure.

Well, I mean, I'm talking, I'm not even talking creative failure. I'm talking about, you know, the full home run. is You know, it makes $100 million of the box office. and you get nominated for an Oscar.

Now that's the full home run. But usually show business is A second base slide, you get to first base, you're out. You get a third. I mean, they're very few and far between.

So that what's important to me is the the the journey of doing it. Was it fun? Did I enjoy that four months of my life making that movie? But you can't control what our tastes and what our box office. And then some films like Clifford.

is a perfect example that You know. No one saw it or liked it at the beginning and now people love it because tastes change. Maybe you're ahead of the curve at that time.

Sometimes you just have to hang on. Yeah, I think it it's but there is it sounds pretentious to say but if you're an actor for a long time it is like being a painter or an artist, you paint something and someone may like it. today and not like it in five years and vice versa. And your satisfaction has to come from just the journey of doing it. Right, that makes total sense.

And like you said, collecting some friends along the way and these special things. Fabulous. And 10,000 funny dinners. That comes along with those friends, you know. Yeah, which we get a little bit of an insight to, which is remarkable in this.

So go all the way back. When you were a kid, you were up in your attic doing talk shows and concerts. Yes. What was the dream?

Well, it wasn't a dream so much because I was in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

So it wasn't like I was in New York City and down the street was Hello Dolly. I It was It was fantasy. that I thrived in.

So when I was 15, I, for example, had an imaginary contract with NBC. to do an hour show But every other week. Which left me time for my imaginary film career. And I had an applause record. I had um I'd, you know, sing a medley of songs that weren't nominated, then I'd Pause the reel to reel, and I go to the applause from Snod for the Sands, and I play that.

And I build it, and I type things up for TV Guide, you know. You even had listings in TV Galaxy. Oh yeah, highlights, sure. Marty's guests will be Peggy Lee and Tony Bennett, you know. The Martin Schwartz Show.

But At no point did I say, hey, mom and dad, I want to be an actor. Because it was not real.

So I wanted to be a doctor. Not because I cared about science, I was just a fan of Richard Chamberlain's work from Dr. Kilder. I thought, what a series. And then you went to school.

I was in pre-meds for two years. And then I thought No, this is wrong. And then I switched to social work, which gave me more time now to do theater. And that's when I started doing a lot of theater at university. And then you realized at some point, oh, maybe this isn't meant to be a hobby.

And my fourth year. Eugene Levy, who was now a struggling actor in Toronto. A few years older than I, and my friend said, You know, you should really give this a shot. You should try. And so I remember going to each one of my professors: what do you think?

Should I? Because I'd never not been in school. and my parents weren't living, so I was alone in the family house. And They all said, of course you should. And so I gave myself a one-year contract.

You gave yourself a deadline. Yeah, one year.

So that if If between May and the following May, if nothing happened and I never worked. then I could now go back and finish my master's in social work.

So then you would have just become a social worker. Yeah, and probably gotten to politics and I love politics.

So but anyway, while I was still in my fourth year, I got my first job, this job, Godspell. And then I kept renewing, for the next few years I would renew my one-year contract. Until I thought, um um I'm stuck. I'm stuck. This is it.

Yeah. So go back. You mentioned that your mother and father died. You also lost your brother all before age 20. Right.

What did that teach you about grief and loss?

Well, there was no there was no you know again had I grown up in Beverly Hills there have been nine live in shrinks, But, you know, it was nineteen seventy in Hamilton. Which is a fabulous city, but it wasn't the mecca of therapy. And I've never been in therapy, no kidding. Um But What it developed In me was this muscle of survival. and handling grief and a perspective on it and Um It stayed with me.

And by 20, And my father had died, and we now lost three members of the of the original seven, 'cause I was the youngest of five. Um in seven years I did know that I knew something about life. that no other twenty year old knew. I they would find it out in their forties and fifties. But I knew it at twenty.

about love, the importance of keeping these people alive. George Eliot, the writer, once said, you know, The dead are only dead to us. if we if they are forgotten. Or Mike Nichols once said, I think when we lose people, you just keep the conversation going. And all these things I did.

When I met my wife four years after my parents had died, my father died. Nancy felt that she knew them intimately. through tapes, because I taped everything, but stories. you know, just keep the conversation going. Keep them alive.

Keep the conversation going. Wow. Um Do you think that that gave you a certain amount of bravery when it came to getting on stage, putting it on? I absolutely do. I think you know, if you've gone through that an audience not liking you is really not that important anymore.

You kind of say, Well, I like me. And who are you? I mean, this is what I've always realized about. Um You know, I I don't I not on the internet on any level. I don't want to read myself, but when I do a talk show.

I always go to the most recent talk show. and see it to see, oh, what jokes do they use? Because sometimes they'll cut your jokes. Oh, I'm good, I can play that joke.

Okay, you know, 'cause I always type in send too many pages and I love to over prepare for everything. But you're seduced sometimes by the comments. And you go down, oh, he's great. Oh, he's fabulous. I have hated him.

my whole life. He's boring, he pushes. And I think, well. That person, whoever that Horner 176 has a right. To their opinion, but this is what I know.

If I had dinner with Horner 176, I'd be bored. I would be bored. That's a great way to look at it. I think it's an accurate way to look at it. And an arrogant, it's my combo.

But that's okay. It's a great way to cope with it. Instead of focusing on this one person that picked picked up. I think it's very important to be our best friends and to go toward the highest form of wisdom when it comes to all this stuff. Like when you do something, if if you're in a movie or television show or Broadway show and You know it's not very good.

And they say it's not very good, you go, oh, they cut me. But if you know it's great And someone says, I don't like it, you think, you're an idiot.

So, you know in your heart what the review should be. Do you read reviews? Um n no But sometimes. Like I'll read them. If I open at a Broadway show I would read the New York Times just because If you don't, people will come up to using Are you okay?

What does he know? And you think, okay, well, all right, let me read it. You know. My first movie I ever made was Three Amigos. And I remember having a meeting with John Landis, the director.

And during our meeting his film that had just opened was Spies Like Us. with Chevy and Danny Aykroyd. And in those days, you'd just be handed a stack of reviews, like 180 of them. And as we were having our meeting, he was handed the stack and he started. And he went like this.

Oh, that's okay.

Okay. Oh, that's pretty good. Oh, listen to this. The worst so he was gravitating. toward the negative.

And I thought. This isn't healthy. I got my first movie, Three Migos, and I got that packet. I took the advice of my friend Christopher Guest, and I just went to the garbage can and threw them away. Threw all the reviews away.

One time Steve Martin said, on a film. Only send me the good reviews. In those days they were a fax machine.

So you sat by the fax machine. as nothing happened. And funny with one positive from the Sacramento B. You know what I mean? That was it.

So that didn't work either. Yeah. It's best to get them and throw them.

So, how do you handle that though when Three Amigos, which is a classic now, when it came out, was. Not so beloved. Mixed. There were certain people who loved it. And I remember I made this film Three Fugitives and the director of a French man, Francis Desbert.

And I said, you know, certain aspects of the script, he said, let me tell you about this film, Marty. People who will love it will love it, and people who will hate it will hate it. and you can't permeate either group.

So I thought, okay. And you carried that with you for some of these films.

Well, and again, Three Mega is a perfect example. It was, you know. um did okay at the box office, mixed reviews, and now people can't comprehend that it wasn't just adored back then because it became something that was adored.

So Let's back up to Godsville for a second. Magical time, and this is where you met Nancy on Godsville. Yes. Did you immediately fall for her? No, I immediately fell for Gilda Radner.

So Gilda Nancy wasn't hired right away. Sh uh it's uh we start we We got hot you know, I have a rain man. Memory about things. I always think that, you know, I used to think I had HSAM, do you know what that is? Where there's 400 people in the world that.

Mm. 60 Minutes has done a piece. 400, 500 people that know. Everything what they wore. And had for dinner 25 years ago, who was there, they have full memory.

that never alters. And I used to think I had it. And I was telling someone, I said, I think I might have HSAM just like Mary Lou. Henner. I couldn't remember Henner.

So I thought, okay, if I don't remember Henner, I don't have it. Mary Lou, you know, the chick from taxi, you know, one of those things. Anyway, um but I do have a lot of so on March 25th, 1972, the Godspell editions happened and we got in, this group of ten. And then the show opened June 1. But Nancy didn't, she was an understate, she didn't join until the following October.

So by that time, I was the boyfriend of Gildarett. for the next couple of years. And then, how did you end up falling for Nancy? Gilda and I broke up. We'd have fights and break up and get back together.

And so. I went to the pilot bar and there was Nancy. She just broken up with her boyfriend and We'd always liked each other. She was so beautiful she scared everybody, you know. Because she had long Joni Mitchell hair and she owned this.

antique clothing store. shades of azure, and she'd come in with a black velvet cape and Is everyone healthy? And she'd sign me going, aye. And uh but I was with Gilda. And uh then Gilda and I uh broke up and then I Ran to Nancy at the pilot bar and we arranged a tennis match the next day.

And that was that. I remember Gilda saying, You're with Nancy Dole. We're supposed to get back together, aren't we? Yeah. What did you say?

Last ship sailed. She was fine, believe me. Everyone was in love with Gilda. Yes, true. And Gilda and Nancy came to an understanding of the world.

Oh, absolutely. Yes. Absolutely.

So as, well, let's talk about career, then we'll go back to Nancy.

So then you move on to Second City, SCTV, SNL, and you start developing these amazing characters: Ed Grimley, Jackie Rogers, Nathan Thurm. Do you have a a favorite character that you absolutely love? No, they're all like your kids. They really do become your own creations. I mean, each one is kind of interesting and different in the sense that Ed grimly represented innocence.

pure innocence and joy of life. I I remember one line I wrote where he the phone is ringing and he On SNO, and he's going to answer it, and then he turns and says, gee, I love the phone. There's always such a sense of mystery.

So everything delighted him. Nathan Thurm was the guy that represented all the bad guys on 60 Minutes. who would lie and cheat and then when cornered attack you. Um sound like anyone and uh And Jim Nigleck was just a moron with power.

Someone who became an inevitability for no reason. You know, he'd say things to an interviewer, just because I ask you a question doesn't mean I need an answer. I remember that shh. Yes. Yes, I remember that.

Eddie Falco got freaked out by it, yeah. That's one of the things that this documentary did was make me want to go back and watch, for example, all of the Jiminy Glicks. And as I watch those, I think What was Jiminy Glick's goal in doing an interview? There was no goal. There was, I was doing a talk show for King World, and we wanted to create someone who would go out.

In the fields, and you know, you just get more names. You go to a junket, and you can also say, Tom Haines is on, and Jack Nicholson. You know, you're not lying, he's gonna be on, but it's a gymney section. And I remember we were shooting at CBS in Television City. And we'd go to farmers' market and I'd put on a fake nose and a bald pate and I Go behind a fish store, and I'd be handing fish with my hands to see people's reaction.

They'd say, Can we have your autograph, Mr. Short? Ooh, that's drag. Oh, I've done too much of this. They're seeing through the fake nose.

But I'd made a movie in 1990 called Pure Luck, and at one point. I'm stung by a bee and I swell up And I remember on the set Nancy came. and said, I cannot see you in there. And I thought, ooh, so that became kind of Jiminy's look. I mean the That And when he conducts an interview, what's the point?

So, when he does an interview, it's just there's nothing prepared, I don't have notes. Because we take, you know, we would. For a final six minutes, maybe we filmed for twelve minutes. And um I would just improvise. were other characters like Ed Grimley and Nathan Thurme and Irving very written.

memorized exact. But Jiminy, I would just and then I'd be in the edit bay and I'd see myself say I I take raid um You should and I think I've never used that expression. In my, I don't even know what it means, you know?

So but w that character gave me a freedom to say anything Well, under the guise of not meaning to say anything negative. Mm-hmm. Like you'd say to Spielberg, why don't you gotta do the big one? The one that connects with the people, you know? And the truth is, it's an insult, but it's also a really good-hearted insult.

It's not. Absolutely.

Which is what makes it really interesting.

Well, it's like any, Steve Martin and I insult each other all the time on stage. And people always ask, do we ever go too far? And no, because you don't. You don't go to the real things, you go to the silly things. I'll say to Steve, how does it feel to have.

looked seven as a as looked 70 since you were 30. It's a it's a kind of true, but it's a joke. Yeah. It's a sweet joke. It's a sweet insult.

So, Azure, Azure. Although I did say. him that he's so pale. In the 80s, I think I once tried to snort you, you see, so that's. I say, he looks like Anderson Cooper froze to death on New Year's Eve.

So it's, yes, he's pale, but he's not that pale. Yeah. It's all good natured. Yeah, all good natured. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break.

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So, as your career progressed, you and Nancy also started a family. Yes. How eager were you to become a dad? Very. Absolutely.

Um Andrea Martin describes your father. fatherhood as as genuine as Breath. I think that's true. I think it's true for a lot of parents. I don't think I'm unique on that one, hopefully.

What did you there are these precious movies of you with your kids? What did you love about being a dad?

Well, I d I just it What's great about having dinner? I mean, it just seemed to make why are we here if not to be parents and and raise children and learn from their innocence and be delighted by their constant innocence, you know. And You learn that that's the most important thing you could ever do. It seems like you always had a real sense of balancing. You know, I think it's interesting about life.

I always think it's like the scales of justice. At the end it all equals out. I mean, someone might look at my life and say, Oh my god, how lucky he You know, he can afford a lovely home. He's had this career. People like him.

Then there's other things that can take that down, and at the end it's probably a wash. whoever you are. Hmm. That's an interesting way to look at it. Um when Nancy got sick.

She wanted you to keep working. Did did you want to keep working? Um I didn't work as much. You know? But you know, she had ovarian cancer, so After the initial chemo and everything, she had Two years of Great health.

So You know, you you you You Then believe we're out of the woods, and then if it returns, you adjust. But I remember I was doing damages at the time. And we weren't telling anyone. But the executive producers knew where we were, so they were taking me they weren't taking me out, but they were saving all my scenes till the end. And I remember I now had to go and Nancy's really this is last five months, but I went for a month to shoot And I remember getting the set, and no one knew, and Glenn would go, Marty's here, yay!

And I'd go, okay, let me just go to the dressing room for a second. Yeah. Okay then, you know, that's what you have to do. Wow. Did it help?

to get out there and do that? I don't know if it helped. No, it didn't help, but you had to do it. 'Kay. You know, I mean People have to do things in difficult times.

and the mark of the man is can you do it? What do you tell yourself to get through that.

Well, it's something that I've just been in that situation many times. I just. You head for the light. Speaking of light. Watching the home videos of Nancy in particular, we get such a sense of the light that she was in every Room.

Oh, I said Larry Chasm when I saw the first rough coat. I said, you never told me you were in love with Nancy. Because honest to God, she comes across like A star that she is. Um Can you describe? her to you?

She was funny. She had lots of edge. She you know, I'm always amazed when couples will say, We've never had a fight. Really, we did. But you never you you never went to bed with the fight.

But no, she had lots of edge and lots and funny and sarcastic and it was a equal ping pong match, trust me. There was no uh Gee, Martyo Although Tom Hanks would say Like at dinners, he'd go up to Nancy and say, aren't you tired of laughing at his jokes? Yeah. She'd say no, I it's silly. You know.

Okay. You have all of these wonderful movies of all of your friends hanging out: Tom Hanks, Steven Spielberg, Eugene Levy. It goes on and on and on. John Mulaney. Yes, John Mulaney.

I mean, it's incredible. And I'm wondering during those tough times, like when you lost Nancy, how important was that? Oh, very important. Very important. It's interesting in my life because Family was so important, and yet circumstances have keep saying, Oh, it's so important, is it?

What if we take three of them away? What do you think?

Well then you continue on and find other elements that can continue the word family again. I've always been amazed, I mean I'm the youngest of five, but I'm amazed people who are an only child. you realize that their close friends become their siblings. And did that happen to you? Did a lot of your close friends become your family?

Well, I, you know, look, I was again the youngest of five when we left, lost the eldest David. but the other four are still flourishing. They're all in their 80s. They're in the documentary. And they're all hilarious, and we're all insanely close.

And um So I wasn't You know, my friends became my friends. I I tend to have longtime friends. But I certainly had s and continue to have strong siblings. Yeah, and it's wonderful to see them in the documentary as well. And you make a joke about how, oh, yeah, when we were kids, we had the funeral home on speed dial.

Yes, that's true.

Well, you know, it's the Irish, you have to find humor in the dark. Did anybody say, hey, don't hand over these home movies, any of your buddies? Yeah. Well, first of all I didn't ask him. I'll do whatever I want.

Thank you very much, buddies. No, no, no, and I think truthfully. Hey. If it had been Joe Blow directing it. I might have gotten a reaction of Really?

You're giving them a... But um with Larry Kasden, you know. Who wrote? Star Wars 2, 3, Raiders of the Lark, Ark, Body Heat, Big Chill, Accidental Tourist, Grand Canyon, you feel a little safer. That makes sense.

Um There's also this priceless footage of your Christmas parties. What was the atmosphere that you were trying to set with the Christmas parties? There was no atmosphere. I I you know, we used to do these parties in Toronto. Eugene Levy and I shared a house.

on Avenue Road in Toronto. Um And It was just, you know, Paul Schaefer would go over to play the piano, and people would, Gilda would sing, and I'd perform. Everyone just got up. We're all performers and we love to perform.

So I was continuing that tradition here. But it was a little more atypical here because people would get more nervous and Uh But it thi this living room would be filled with, you know. sixty of the most fascinating people I guess you could assemble. and Mark Shaman would always play the piano, and I'd MC and then It started off with me spontaneous. Who would like to do something through the years?

Because we did it about 12 years in a row. Um now it became If the party started at seven, there'd be a rehearsal in there at six.

so you'd have Nathan Lane and Burnett Up Peters rehearsing their numbers. And Victor Garver once took a month of singing lessons in prep, you know. Oh yeah. It's serious. Oh yeah.

But there weren't supposed to be any cameras there. There were no cameras there. I was always surprised in documentary there was video, so I didn't even know s people took somebody snuck a video. Yeah, Glenn Fry. No, but everyone, it was an amazing.

group of people that would perform, Steve and Chevy and everyone. Catherine O'Hara did it every year. Yeah. Oh, seeing Catherine O'Hara in this documentary is such a treasure. I know.

What was it like for you to watch that, to hear her talking about you, see that footage?

Well, Catherine was like, you know. Catherine was like a a sister to me. There was no one more brilliant. There was no one. Sweeter.

And there was no one funnier. And she More than anyone, SCTV would sit behind the camera and give you suggestions. Marty, try that and that. Oh, okay. And then you always just did it.

Very generous, like I remember uh doing we did a At Peace the Queen Haters, we were a punk rock group. and she had just seen a punk band where the guy just randomly did this dance reproduce.

So I just She showed it to me and then I went. and did the take and that's what's in there. That's what Catherine did. The rest of us were just s self-centered, but not capital. When did you get a chance to see the cut of the documentary?

Oh, um, uh uh an early cut. Uh maybe I know. Five months ago maybe. What was it like for you to watch it? Um My first comment was I phoned Larry and said, Well, this is no surprise, but I'm just reminded you're a brilliant filmmaker.

And uh You know, then I had you know, I always have notes and thoughts. That after ignored, but I certainly certainly heard them. But no, I was just I thought he did a brilliant job from off the top. Is it odd to hear all your friends talking about you like that? And will you worry that it's going to be um come across icky, but now I don't think so.

Because they're such sincere people in their lives that are almost It's impossible to believe they're not sincere. I love, there's a quote from Tom Hanks where he says, Marty operates at the speed of joy. Is that true? You know, I don't analyze myself. If that's his review for me, I'll accept it.

But I think I do have the happy gene, and I think my orientation is to be happy. How is that? Where do you think that comes from? Do you think it's truly genetic? I do.

I do. I think I I think it is. I think it's obviously there everything is elements, you know. Show business is talent, luck, and endurance. I think that is DNA, but how were you raised?

Were your parents kind? Were people kind to you? Was kindness the operative word? I mean, I look at all My siblings' children And their children now And everyone's different. And everyone has a different maybe profession or approach to life.

But the one constant in all these extended shorts is everyone is sweet and kind. There's not one prick in the group. Because I don't think they would survive. I think they'd be. Rip to shreds.

That makes sense. Right, in your family. Yeah, you have to be kind. But you're not kind. It would be bad.

When you When you lost Nancy, How do you get through that. How do you choose joy then?

Well, you don't right away, but you you Have children to raise, which I did, this is 15 years ago. I had children to raise, and I had. Um And I did have an understanding from my childhood of what the end of life. was going to happen to all of us and some It's too early, but We have to celebrate and be lucky enough the experiences that we have with them, but just to think of them, they've just gone into the next room for a while. Gone into the next room for a while.

And eventually, You'll be in that. That's beautiful. I mean when my brother David died I talked about the documentary, but I was twelve, I was traumatized. And I did have The second night A Full Technicolor Dream Because he'd been in a car accident, so it couldn't be an open funeral, and that was traumatizing, awful to everyone. And suddenly I'm in, it's like Freudian, but I mean, I'm in a beautiful, bucolic.

There's a stream and there's a little home, and I'm sitting by the stream, and David sits beside me, and he looks handsome, and he. said I'll see you in a minute. And I woke up with Oh. It was lifted.

Now, a theologian would say Theologian would say. Um well, that was a visitation. And a scientist would say, That's a twelve year old who needs mental relief. Who knows? But it gave you the relief.

It gave me the relief. Yeah. So maybe it doesn't need an entire explanation. Absolutely correct. The documentary is devoted to two people: to Catherine O'Hara and then your daughter, Catherine.

Is there anything you want to share about Catherine? I'm so sorry. You know, it's been um a nightmare. for the family. But the understanding that mental health and cancer, like my wife, are both diseases.

and sometimes with diseases. They are terminal. And my daughter fought for a long time. With extreme mental health borderline personality disorder, other things, and did the best she could until she couldn't.

So Nan's last words to me were Mark, let me go, and she was just saying, Dad, let me go.

So I Uh hold. A deep desire. And that's why I'm involved with this organization, Bring Change to Mind, which Glenn Close started, which is taking mental health out of the shadows. not being ashamed of it, not hiding from the word suicide but accepting that this can be the last stage of an illness. And um That's my approach to this.

Yeah. And the thing is, nobody would blame you if you said, I'm not going to talk about this. This is my private life. If I wasn't going to talk about this, then I would have pushed the Documentary. Mm.

You know, because it is listen, it's called Martin Life is Short and Suddenly In the last in last October, I lost Diane Keaton on the same day I lost my sister-in-law. Nancy's sister to cancer. and then Rob and Michelle have been my life long friends for forty years. Reiner. And then Catherine O'Hara, and then my daughter.

I mean, it's been in four months. Staggering. Staggering. How do you even wrap your mind around that? You can't, you just have to Breathe in, breathe out.

What I do is I dictate into my phone and th I transcribe it and I look at it and rewrite it and Put it away. That's what I do. Same way I've always done it because I've never been in therapy.

So, your therapy is me. My therapy is me. Is you, dictating into your phone your feelings. Yeah. Write it out and then.

No, and then Live with it. And then you find if you're repeating your same things Oh, maybe you're getting Maybe you're moving on a little bit, you know. But ultimately, I think it's important to do the documentary at this time because, as we talked about, there's something about. The message here, if there's a message, is that you can choose joy, that you can find the light, even in the darkest moments. Do you think?

our our limited time on this earth, it's very difficult to accept it.

So The idea of my brother David said, I'll see you in a minute. or someone going in the next room for a bit until you join them. It's very difficult for us to accept, but the more you accept it, I think it it does lift you. make you feel that um This is a complicated little journey in life, and the more we approach it with wisdom, probably the happier we'll be. Mm.

I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much.

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