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Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com slash podcast for 40% off. Terms apply. This is Jane Pauley. When your father's name is Schwarzenegger and your mom is a Kennedy, it's perhaps no surprise when you end up in the spotlight, which brings us to Lee Cowan's interview with actor Patrick Schwarzenegger.
You know that young fellow in the popular series The White Lotus.
So I guess the best place to start is what's this ride been like for you? Ever since White Lotus ended. Or I guess since you were cast, really? Yeah, it started, the roller coaster started. Uh pretty much when I first auditioned.
And then kind of the anxiety of waiting to get the call back and then doing the call back and then, you know. waiting to find out if I got it and then getting it and then going to Thailand to actually film it was a whole other experience. And then it's just been a whirlwind. It's been some of the best months of my life. Yeah.
It's been, you know, it's a dream come true. And it's. You know White Lotus, getting engaged, your name out there everywhere. I mean, the last several months have been. Pretty amazing.
It's one of those years that you're going to mark down as one of the best, probably. Yeah, I mean, it was a mix of last year. You know, I got engaged.
Well, I guess I got engaged two years ago now. You know, that was like, I mean, I got engaged and did the audition, and I found out I got the role and Christmas within like a week.
So it was like, you know, they say things come in threes.
So that was a really great week. And then the next year filming it, and then this year for it to actually come out and be promoting it. It's been. Yeah, it's been a whirlwind. from all the the praise that you've gotten for the role.
What do you think? Do you think this is your best performance of your career so far?
Well, look, I think that it's. It's definitely the show that's gotten watched the most.
So, you know, it gets watched by both critics and by. The masses, by the audience. You know, I've been fortunate to be involved in some really great projects. You know, The Staircase was one that was really a dramatic character and role in the series, and I got to play opposite Colin Firth and Juliet Banoche and Tony Collette. You know, Michael Stuhlbar, all these incredible Emmy and Oscar-winning actors and actresses.
So, you know, that was really incredible. And Gen V with the boys that had a big fan base as well. But this White Lotus is something that kind of touches the drama side, it touches the comedic side. It's something that's watched by a lot of the insiders, like I was saying, and people in the industry, and then also by the masses.
So you kind of get. Judged in a way that I've never been judged before. But what do you think? in terms of It's It's weird to watch yourself, you know. I don't know.
I mean, you're always like, anytime you do work, you're always, there's part of you, and you're a little self-conscious of, you know, is this believable? Is this, am I doing a good job? Am I not? But really, I think, you know, I just. I put all the trust into Mike White and you know he He can bring out a performance in all the different actors and actresses that I don't think people have seen before.
And that's the beauty of working with someone like him. And you're putting his words. you know, on the screen. Are you Particularly proud of this one? Of course.
Yeah, I'm very proud. I'm very proud of the whole series, to just be involved in it. I'm proud of my work. I'm proud of my castmates' work. Um yeah, it's it's it's uh It's really cool to be part of a series that you enjoy watching, and that also your friends and your family really enjoy watching.
To that point, your dad had said that there were times when He didn't even recognize you in the role. Which, when he said that to you, you were kind of like, wow, really? Yeah. What does that mean to you? That you were that deep in the character a bit?
Well, I think it's good that he didn't recognize that because the character is a little out there and different, so it'd be a little bit alarming if he did recognize a lot of those characteristics and parts about Saxon. Yeah, I mean it's it's that's That's our goal as an actor, you know, is to go and place ourselves into someone else's shoes and into their lives and to try to. you know, transform into someone we're not. When it came to the show itself, you Like everybody else started watching it, I guess, the first season during the pandemic, right? Yeah.
Did you get hooked on it, just like everybody else? Oh, yeah, we were hooked. We were hooked. I mean, it was. I think the first season came out in 2020 or 2021, I can't remember, but it was during that kind of COVID.
time period and it was me Abby, my fiancé, and my mom, we lived together, us three. During the pandemic? During the pandemic.
So you can imagine how fun that was. And then they were always like my mom and my sister was always like, Why aren't you in you need to be in this show? You need to audition. This is such a perfect day. Blah blah blah blah.
And uh and then finally the third season I got to be part of. Tell me about your your audition, um, because it sounds like you weren't really You weren't really given anything other than what, a sentence of what Saxon was supposed to be? Yeah, it was one sentence. It said, Saxon Ratliff. Um he is a southern finance bro that flirts with anything.
I think that was the sentence. That was it. What did you do for that first audition? If you're going to describe it, it sounds pretty funny. Yeah, it was, well, I've said this before, my brother-in-law, Chris Pratt, had told me that.
Uh with self-tapes, you know, it's uh Within the first couple seconds, the casting director will be able to know: are you kind of the vibe and the idea of the character they're looking for? The wording was that he flirted with anything.
So I just took the first few seconds. And just kind of You know, what we call I, I don't want to say something inappropriate. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, you know.
Stared at the camera in a loving way. Erotic, maybe. Yeah, and I just kind of was taking a moment to flirt and hit on the camera and have this kind of weird sexual tension moment that was very awkward, but kind of creepy but funny. What you kept during this whole process, though, you kept it secret from everybody except your fiancé, right? No, she didn't know anything.
She didn't know anything. No.
So, when did you decide to tell everybody that you got it? Oh, when I got it. I told them. A few days after I got it. Yeah.
Because at first I was like really nervous to tell anyone, and then I told my fiancé, because we had just gotten engaged. And we were gonna go start planning our wedding for that summer. And then that's when I had to say, hey, I. Booked White Lotus, I'm going to be gone for seven months.
So I had to start conversation, yeah. It strikes me that Saxon could have been kind of a a one-note character. Yeah. Um Did you have any reservations? Because he was.
Yes. The way he was? I did. I did. I remember talking with my friend and my and Abby, my fiancé, at the time when I booked the role, and I started to read the first, you know, couple episodes and it was my mistake to kind of Judge the character off of the first couple episodes, which a lot of people ended up doing.
I was worried Yes, I was worried. I was worried about how was I gonna Play this character with some depth and some different levels, and how do you, you know. I didn't want him to come off as just this one note. Character. Because I've read where people come up to you and they're like, man, I hate you.
Yeah. Which is a compliment because they love your performance, but was there Was there ever a time you think, God, do I really want to play a guy that's going to come off as such a... Yes, well, there's times in my life now where it's a conscious choice of where do I want to go next. which is something completely different and I don't want to do that exact type of character again. I mean I never want to do something too similar, but it never crossed my mind of I'm not going to do this show or I'm not going to do this because of the character or whatever, you know?
You just knew you had to be careful. Yeah, I just knew that I had to I just had to find ways to show a little bit of an arc and work with Mike and and you know Make some small choices from the actor side to showcase that. But, you know, this is also a show that is. Like Mike always said, people like to watch these characters. You know, they love to hate them.
And it's what brings people laughter and joy. And I mean, it's part of the overall theme of the show of kind of rooting for some of these people to go down the drain. It's part of the fun. Tell me about some of the things that you did to become Saxon were. A lot of them were just Little things that you kind of did, like you've talked about when you get out of the pool and you walk by the girls.
Tell me about some of those. on our first day filming. You know, the first day we filmed, it was episode one, and I'm getting out of the pool. And I said on the page it wrote that Saxon was swimming in the pool, swimming laps in the pool, and I kind of. Said to Mike, Hey, do you think it'd be fun if I could do we had the camera just right here and only showed the eyes?
And it made it kind of like a crocodile shark type of a feel, and it made it look more, you know, suspicious and kind of creepy and weird. That he was kind of checking out the people at the pool just through here, and he liked that. And then it read that you know, Saxon gets out of the pool and goes to his lounge chair next to Chelsea, who's Amy Liu. And I remember doing that the first time, and I'm walking out, and I go and I just kind of grab myself and I adjust myself while looking over at Amy Liu in kind of a seductive, you know. in a flirting way.
And uh and I sit down and then I'm sitting there and I'm talking with my brother about how these long plane rides make me so horny and all this and I'm kind of playing with myself and minding myself. And I just remember Mike coming over and he was like, Did you Did you just do what I think you did? Did you just play did you just adjust yourself? Mid-scene? Do you just play with yourself mid-scene?
And I was like. Uh yeah, but is that is that Is that okay? He was like, Jason, who's that Saxon? That's brilliant. That's perfect.
That's perfect. That's perfect. Perfect. And I was like, okay, so Mike's cool with me messing around a little bit and adding some characteristics to the character. But honestly, Some other things was what that I that I did to kind of make Saxon was, I mean, just how I'm sitting here today, I was having dinner with Parker Posey.
And Parker was kind of sitting there at dinner, and she was like, What are you? What part of your body does Saxon lead with? And I was like Um I don't know actually, I think and she was like, well, you have to have a You have to have a body part that you you're leading with. And then I was like, okay, then I made the conscious decision. I was like, I think Saxon would lead with his His private lord.
And she was like, that's perfect. Perfect, honey, and she grabbed my knee and she was like, that's just, that's exactly right. That's my boy. And I was like, okay. And so I decided that that was just one of the things, you know, how he sat.
He sat very upright. And there were moments of with us at the dinner table when I was upright and sitting like this. You know, I would be kind of checking. Flexing and checking his muscles, or I would be doing this peck flex and stuff. And Mike thought those things were so funny, so he would take moments to kind of film those, or how he walked.
You know, that was a thing that Mike always, there was a joke because he was always like, You don't look like you're rich, you're not walking rich, you're not walking rich enough. Aren't you a Schwarzenegger? Are you a Kennedy? Aren't you rich in real life? You don't look like you're rich at all.
And I was like, Well, I don't know what that means to walk rich. He was like, Walk richer. And I was like, Okay.
So I started walking more like this Conor McGregor character that had this very, like, you know, just this, this. physicality about him. You know, and then there are other team members there that help a lot. Hair and makeup, you know, they make decisions to make him very put together in the beginning with his tucked-in shirt and the belt and the khaki shorts and the salmon shirt and the Gucci loafers. And then as the course of the season went on, he was more disheveled and darker colors and more, you know, more normal clothing as the season went on.
And I know you've been asked about this a million times, but the scene on the boat. was kind of breaking some Taboos, I think, right? Because it wasn't just. A sex scene. You know, incest, whatever you want to call it.
What? Did you have any concerns about that? Of course. You had to jump in, I guess, with both feet, otherwise, it wouldn't have worked. Yeah, I think when you sign on to do the white lotus, you're jumping in headfirst.
You're really just like... Let's do it. You know, you don't know where it's going to go. I mean, you know, when I was auditioning, they had said, Are you okay with? you know Performing things sexually, are you okay being nude at times, and you know, all those different things.
So I knew. an idea of where it could go. I didn't know to what extent. the show would go. But again, you just you trust Mike.
You know, he he's a brilliant writer. Everything that he does is adding to the character storyline or to the overall storyline. And yeah, I mean I was nervous, nervous to film that, nervous for the perception, how it was going to go over with audiences. You know, it's definitely pushing the envelope and it's definitely out there, but so is White Lotus. The The main thing that happened with that scene was the change for Saxon.
That was the first time that we kind of saw the power dynamic. Shift and change. And it was a really great moment for me because that allowed my character to be a. I it it allowed me to play a different version of Saxon. And that's where we saw a lot of the character arc and change start to happen, was right there.
And then, afterwards, on the boat the next morning, and him just kind of internalizing all of this: oh my god, who am I? You know, and a lot of White Lotus, what it's about is this, especially with Buddhism, is kind of like, your birth and and death and being reborn again. And that's kind of like that midpoint in the season where a lot of people's egos or who they thought they were are dying. And you're being reborn again into this new version of yourself. And that's what happened with my character.
You know, who he thought he was was completely destroyed. And now he was having to figure out Who am I? And everything he thought he was, and walking into the white lotus, the most confident, the most sure of himself, always telling other people, the girls, of how to be, or telling his little brother or his sister what they need to do in life. And he's got everything figured out.
Now everything has been turned on its head. And so it was a. I guess I looked at that scene as a, of course, it was nerve-wracking, but it was also a beautiful moment to try to. play a different performance.
Well you did it well. I mean I I don't know how you I don't know how you did it, but It was made. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview. After this break. I'm Livy Dunn, All-American gymnast and Viore athlete.
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Now streaming. Hi again! TV's quirkiest crime solver. I'm Elsbeth Tassioni. I work with the police.
Is on the case. I like my outlandish theories with a heavy dose of evidence. And ready to go toe-to-toe with a cavalcade of guest stars. Are you saying that this is now a murder investigation? It's starting to look that way.
Don't miss a moment of the critically acclaimed hit Elsbeth, all episodes now streaming on Paramount Plus and return CBS Fall. That sounds like fun. Obviously, murder's not fun. Was there Was there a moment that you acting is what you want to do or was it more of kind of a Slow burn. There were definitely moments in life where I thought that I wanted to do, yeah, that I wanted to be an actor.
But there wasn't like a moment that. There wasn't a specific moment, but I think that I, I mean, I'm trying to remember if there was a. I remember going to the set with my dad and just falling in love with the film, with the world. And I loved. going with my dad, it was just like the most fun experience for for me and probably for any kid to go to to Set, you know, and seeing him transform into these different characters, and then going in, and you're in these studios.
I just remember being like in love with all of that. I mean, I didn't probably understand what acting was at that time, but that's what opened me up to that world. And then I did plays in lower school and And then in high school, and then I started to get more involved and go to, you know, after college. College and get into theater classes and get into real, you know, acting-intensive classes. and actually get my feet wet on set and and That's where I, you know, really made the decision.
How often would you would you go to set? Your dad said so he's just to come pick you up from school. All the time. Yeah. All the time.
Yeah. Whenever I mean, Whenever I was allowed to.
Sometimes he would pick me up, even when I wasn't allowed to. But yeah, it was like, yeah, it was the best. And we'd go do homework in the trailer during certain times, and he would always set up these math questions and problems and all these different homework assignments for us in the trailer and with my friends. That's so cool. You've made it a point really to carve your own path.
That seems like it must have taken a lot of So a lot of thought and a lot of kind of figuring out exactly how to do that, how to curve your own path. Um Yeah, it does. It takes yeah. I'd say it does. I mean, I just made the conscious decision of not wanting to.
work with my My dad really. You didn't even want to use his agents or anything, right? Yeah, I didn't want to. I didn't want to it it was more for just me personally wanting to feel like I was making strides and and learning and growing without him. I mean, I always know that there's You know.
my last name, there's connections, there's things that are going to help me. Uh but I just yeah, I didn't want to I wanted to try to take a different path than that. um more f I guess fulfilling. was what it was really down to. But it's I mean I'd love to to work with him at some point.
Early on, did you ever... Think about acting under a different class name? I thought about just going under different names just to just wondering what that would be like. At the end of the day, I mean it was You know, I said this to him, I'm really. Proud of what he's built and the legacy he's built and the equity he's put into the name and stuff.
And it's also a unique. Your dad's philosophy sounded like it was kind of to go big. Yeah. And you've said your philosophy is to go much slower and smaller. What do you mean?
I mean for me I I have no um Mm-hmm. ego with my work of I need to be Number one on the call sheet. I need to have my name on the billboard and have the biggest trailer. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. I mean, for me, it was really just like I want to work with amazing filmmakers, and I don't care if it's a one-day role, I don't care if it's a five-day role, if it's run a picture.
I just want to continuously learn and grow and get better at my craft and get to work with these amazing, talented individuals. He told me he's done one audition in his life. That was crazy. One audition. And then he was like that.
On to the next, and you know, so it was a different time back then, and you know, the action heroes and the leading man were a lot different than it is today. Yeah, I I guess my approach has just been I I just want to continuously grow.
Sort of sudden fame, as it were. People knew you from other projects, but this is on a whole different level. How did that? How's that been for you? I think that s It's definitely been a roller coaster for me.
It's been different than I thought it was going to be. Yeah. In what way I I guess there's been other projects that I've been part of where people recognize you from. This was. unique because People are so involved in the show.
Yeah. the fans are very worse. very invested. They're very invested in your character. They're very invested on where your character is going to go.
Everybody has thoughts or theories or ideas about what's going to happen. And so, when they see you, they want to come up and they want to. Talk to you, they think you're going to spill some information, they think you're going to validate their crazy theory. Um I mean, I got it from Abby, my fiancé. I mean, she would tell me all of her things, because she didn't know.
So, like, I mean, every dinner, she was telling me all these different ideas and thoughts, and I was just like, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then also, like we said in the beginning, the first four weeks. People loved to hate. My character, and they made that very vocal, and they would come up and tell me, and it was a weird.
It was a I guess the biggest experience, learning experience was people have a really hard time deciphering the difference between you as a human and your character. But I guess one of the benefits of having you know, my parents in the business and Um Seeing other friends that have been in the business and how their lives have changed and stuff. it was really important for me and always has been that that kind of my core foundation doesn't change. meaning just like my my my friends and my my family and my faith and my fiancé and the people that are always around me, like that that stuff has not changed at all. And so I think that's probably kept me kind of a little more to the ground um and allowed me to see that You know, this too shall pass.
I mean, you kind of go in waves as an actor. Yeah. That you know, there's times where you might have a great moment with White Lotus, and then there's another. Eight, nine, ten months that you might not work at all, and people forget about you, or whatever. And so, as long as I have those other.
components around me. Then, not much changes, which I like. You are um. Especially close, I think, with your family. Have dinner every Saturday night?
I'd say. Over at your mom's house? Every Sunday, yeah. I was dinner with them last night. They do?
Uh-huh. And Is that I mean so many people that are in this kind of you know, world, you go up and see people that end up This kind of was screwed up lies. You haven't. How did you manage to to avoid all those pitfalls of fame and being I think it's for the reasons I just told you. I have the things that are constant around me.
You know, I think what happens with a lot of people, what I've seen with my Some of my own friends is, you know, as their fame has gone up, you know, the people around them have changed. other things have have changed that that then affects them. Um but for me those those parts have not changed. You know, I've been with my fiancé for whatever, 10, it'll be 10 years. You know, and I've had my family by my side my whole life, and my best friends are all from.
preschool and lower school and high school and So Um you know, I I think that in in Life, you start to find out what matters to you at some point, and you start to understand the definition of what success is to you. And um You know, those are the things that I I guess that are I define my my what I want in life and what what success is. Yeah. What do you think uh obviously each of your parents have probably given you different things. What do you What do you think your mom has given you examples?
I think exactly that. really trying to help me understand what it is in life that I find important. Yeah. And um yeah, yeah, for sure. And she's always been, you know, all about family and about faith and her friends and and um those are the things that have rubbed off on on me.
Whereas my dad wanted to be very, he's very goal-centric and very much wanting to be the best at his craft and wants to be the. The um you know, he's more, yeah, I would say more career-driven. And he's um You know, and that's what makes him so unique. Yeah. He's the one that really suggested you uh you study business.
Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. What did he say? What did he say?
Because it seemed like it was more than you just got to have a plan B in case acting doesn't work out. It was specifically plan B he said he would always tell us, I hate plan B. He would say that it's plan B is for people that don't believe in where they will go in life. And if you have a plan B, that it already is your subconscious, and your conscious will start telling you that you're not capable of getting to your plan A. Oh, interesting.
And so he never wanted to have, or for us kids to have a. an idea that there's some sort of You know, plan B or a safety net or whatever you want to call it. Because so why business though? Why did he think? Business was because he had so many friends that were in from back in the bodybuilding days, then into acting career and so on and so forth that made Tons of money, but would end up broke or losing a lot of it, or not understanding how to use investments, or didn't understand the difference of revenue and profit, or whatever that might be, or spending expenses.
You see that a lot in Hollywood, or in sports, or in other areas. But then he also just said that it didn't matter what you wanted to do in life, having a business background was important. If you wanted to be a journalist, or if you wanted to be a teacher, or you wanted to be a, you know. A trainer, you know, and you want to start your own training company, or you want to be a, you know, whatever that might be. And for an actor, having a business background is.
is extremely important. and understanding the difference of being a personal entity versus having an S-Corp and understanding your expenses and understanding how you're writing things off or actually, I mean, at the end of the day, I am a business. In one way or another, I'm trying to build my business and the equity of my name. And a brand. And a brand.
So it is a business. And uh and just understanding that and kind of how to make You know, a dollar into two, and you know, things like that he would teach us growing up.
So, and he always told us, which is. You know, something we touched on in the interview, but he's made more money and stuff from business than he has from acting. And from his real estate side of the business to the bodybuilding to his ventures than in film. And even in the film side, you know, talking about even with with twins. how he structured that deal about taking You know, the minimum sag scale for an actor instead of taking his normal paycheck and taking a revenue share on the back end of the first dollar in on the gross.
Um Which ended up being astronomical.
So, you know, those are, I guess, the reasons to have a business kind of background. My dad put me in charge of his memorabilia when I was ten. And it was all for non-profit. I didn't make any money, but it was to understand. How to sell.
And I would go and he said, you would have you have the ability to use my likeness. go and do what you want with it and sell stuff and it'll all go to charity. It'll go to after school all-stars. And so I would take these different photos of him, you know, at Muscle Beach and we would frame them. I took replica of the Conan swords and get him to sign them and I would sell them for $10,000 a pop.
And how old were you? It was 10, 11, 12, 13. I did it for years. And I would go and get... Plates made, you know, barbells and dumbbells, and I'd get him to sign in and just sell them.
And, you know, just ridiculous things. Humidors, I'd take humidors from his house. and get him to sign it and go and sell it. And the purpose was so that I would understand, okay, if I got this picture printed and then I went and got it framed, how much did it cost? And then, okay, if that's my cost, and I double it or triple whatever, and I sell it, then what is revenue versus profit?
It was just some basic ways of allowing me to understand. Your mom uh also really drilled into you this notion of of service. figuring out what you could what you can do for other people. Have you yourself ever thought about going into politics?
Well, I would say it was really from my grandmother, my grandfather. You know, it was kind of that instilled in that, I would say, in that. kind of even from my grandmother's father, you know, and the Kennedy side of being of a public servant, what can you do to give back and you know Not ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country, type of a motto. And so, with my grandfather starting the Peace Corps or my grandmother starting Special Olympics, and My dad starting the after-school All-Stars and my mom doing the Alzheimer's and women's Alzheimer's movement. I think it was instilled in us to find ways to give back at an early age.
Pretty high bar though. Pretty high bar. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you could say that, but it's also. Yeah, I mean it's not like at the end of the day it's about learning the lesson of finding ways to To give back and to help others, and it's better to give than receive, and things of that nature.
Yeah, I guess that's where What I look at, you know, it doesn't have to be through public office to. to find ways to give back. Yeah, and um Yeah, I think that's part of my motto, and that's part of even. When I talk about business, it's about how can we build B Corps? How can you do things that are for-profit but that are also.
mission driven and that give back. There's no reason there can't be Both. Hm.
So Looking back at this whole year and where you are now, I mean Um The expectations are probably a little higher for you now, right, having this much success. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Maybe you thrive off it. I don't know. Yeah, I mean I'm looking forward to the rest of my career.
I feel like it's just starting and there's, you know, I've got a great project coming up that I'm doing with Margaret Qualey that we're about to go start filming in August. Got a lot of other things that are in the docket for later this year and early next year.
So, you know, I'm excited. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts.
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The fear of being committed to one person only. Can we talk about me for a little bit? It'll get to you. With the help of Dr. Orna.
You have so much inside. You could let it out. He's trying to. Couples Therapy. New episodes now streaming on the Paramount Plus with Showtime Plan.
The first season of CBS's new hit, NCIS Origins. is now streaming. NIS? The hell's that? Naval Investigative Service.
We go where the evidence takes us. We got this. 88% fresh on rotten tomatoes. You don't see folks trying to affect change, but here you are. Got a body waiting for us.
Yes. Welcome to the team. NCIS Origin Season 1, now streaming on Paramount Plus.
