Dear Gary | November

She wants a divorce, and I still want to fight for the marriage. My daughter is having an open marriage.

Knowing that your husband looks at other women in pornography usage is at ground for divorce. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, our post-Thanksgiving Dear Gary broadcast. Your questions, feedback, and marriage issues all straight ahead on Moody Radio. Here's our number if you want to ask a question for a future broadcast, 1-866-424-GARY.

We won't take your question live here today, but you may get an answer on an upcoming Dear Gary conversation, 1-866-424-GARY. I'd love to hear any connection you've had with "The 5 Love Languages" in the culture. Gary, I was at church last Sunday as we're recording this program, and a fellow, you know, stand up and shake somebody's hand type of thing. A fellow turned around to me, and his shirt said, my love language is prayer. I said, I like that. I think that's a good thing to say, to have prayer as your love language, don't you? I like that. I would put it as a dialect of quality time. There you go. If you want to spend quality time with God, it's prayer. Or it could be if you're praising in words of affirmation. Oh yeah, true.

We'll get into more of that here today. We're just past Thanksgiving now, Gary, hurtling toward the end of the year. It really is a magical time for families, especially those that have young children, but it's going to be a really hard time for singles, anybody who feels lonely. And you have a heart for people who are struggling between now and the end of the year. Yeah, and especially, you know, Chris, I have a heart for those who have lost a loved one, you know, during this year. And they're facing their first Thanksgiving, their first Christmas with that person not being here. It can be a hard time, you know, as they reflect upon the loss that they've experienced. Of course, your grief is hard anyway, but particularly during the holiday season.

Yeah. Our featured resource today, if you go to buildingrelationships.us, is a newly released book that was first printed a number of years ago. But Gary has been working on bringing everything up to date. Your New Life with Adult Children, a practical guide for what helps, what hurts, and what heals. We're going to hear some questions about adult children in the hour today.

But why do you think this is an important resource for us today? I think because so many parents, at least I've had them in my office over and over again, are facing issues with their adult children that they never dreamed they would ever have to face. You know, all sorts of things. Sometimes it's divorce of the child, and sometimes they're moving back home with grandchildren. Sometimes it's identifying themselves sexually in a way that parents just find very, very painful.

All sorts of those kind of things. But I think for just normal parents who are not facing maybe those huge issues, the whole shift from being a parent of a child and being a parent of an adult can be tricky. And there's a lot of issues that we have to think our way through. So I think this book is going to help a lot of parents who have adult children, whether they're still in college or whether they're out of college, but young adults. I think the kind of issues they're dealing with, we pretty much touch on in this book.

So I think they're going to find it super helpful. Your New Life with Adult Children. You can find it at the website buildingrelationships.us. Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. Now let's get to the phones, and our first call is about adult children.

Hi, Gary. I am calling because I have three adult children. And one way I sort of found to relate to them as they're older, they're in their 30s and 40s, is see them as, how do I relate with my coworkers that are that age? And that has helped me to put up good boundaries and allowed them to be the adults that they are. What I hear her saying is that as she talks to her coworkers who are about the age of her adult children, she's learning how to release her children, as it were, and let them be adults. And that is a key issue. Somewhere along the line, we have to come to that place where we realize they're no longer children.

They are adults. And I have to give them the freedom that God has given all of us, freedom to make our own decisions, freedom to do things even if God has said, don't do them. He gives us freedom. Obviously, we suffer the consequences, as will our adult children when they make poor decisions. But learning how to release your adult children is one of the huge issues.

You know, we've said through the years, give your children roots and give your children wings. And I think that's a good analogy. And part of that, as I've heard you through the years, Gary, is rather than making declarative statements about, well, I wouldn't do that if I were you, ask questions. Oh, why did you choose that? Questions draw your adult child out as an adult rather than getting them into this wagging finger and shaking head, right?

Yeah, I think so. I've said sometimes, you know, don't give advice until your adult children ask for it. But asking them questions about their decisions opens up communication. They can share their thoughts with you. You can begin to see, I understand what you're saying.

I can see how you might come to that decision. And once you've listened to them, you can share a different perspective to be sure, but you share it as a different perspective, not as something, this is what you ought to do, and what you're planning on doing is not good for you. So that just pushes them away. And we want to have an influence on our adult children. But you can't have an influence unless you have communication.

And we won't have communication if we push them away or we put up barriers and dogmatically condemn them for what they're thinking or what they're doing. A featured resource again, Your New Life with Adult Children. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us. And if you have a question along those lines, 866-424-GARY. A man left a voicemail.

He didn't want his voice on the air. So I'm going to read this to you, Gary. The caller said, I've been listening to your book, Loving Your Spouse When You Feel Like Walking Away. I've done some things in my marriage I'm definitely not proud of, and I feel deep conviction about those things. I don't know how to move forward and how to move past my infidelity. I know I should confess it, but I don't know how to go about that. I don't want to hurt my wife.

What do you think I should do? You know, Chris, that reminds me of a statement the apostle Paul made once. He said, I seek to live with an empty conscience before God and man. Powerful statement.

I think it's one of the most important aspects of mental health. And that is living with an empty conscience. And the only way we have an empty conscience is to acknowledge our failures to God, and acknowledge our failures to the person that we've wronged. God will always forgive you if you repent.

Yes, your spouse will be hurt, but typically they will also forgive you. It's the only way to have an empty conscience. Otherwise you live with a guilty conscience all your lifetime. So I think the answer to this question is you first of all confess your sin to God. It appears that this person has already repented. They've already turned away from that relationship, which is a part of confession, repentance. And so you do that to God and thank God that Christ has paid for that sin that you committed, and accept God's forgiveness.

Then ask God to give you the ability to share with your spouse and be open and honest with Him. And I think you do it with a broken heart. You do it by saying such things as, honey, I have to tell you something that really hurts me to tell you, because I know it's going to hurt you. And I don't want to hurt you, but I failed you in a very significant way.

And I don't even know if you can forgive me for it. But I want to share it with you because I want our relationship to be authentic. And then you share what happened, probably with tears. And yes, you don't know how your spouse will respond. They may immediately get angry, they may immediately burst into tears. You don't know how they respond, but you allow them to respond however they respond. And you say, I'm not even asking you, honey, I'm not even saying you have to forgive me today. I hope you can come to the place where you can forgive me. But I want our relationship to be real and honest, and I don't want to have secrets in my life for you.

I want us to be open and honest with each other. To me, Chris, that's the approach to make in a situation like this. And yes, the spouse will be hurt and will be hurt deeply. Because when we sin, we always hurt other people. But it's the only way to live a healthy life in which you have a conscience that's empty. Because you've been willing to repent and confess your sin to God and to the person you sinned against. I've heard stories of men and women who've confessed to their spouse, and there's been a counselor or a pastor that's involved.

Is that a good idea to have, Gary? I think that can be a helpful thing, Chris. Because sometimes a third person being there, especially a pastor or a counselor, can help both of them.

Help the one who is apologizing, the one who's confessing their sin, and help the other one. And sometimes the very fact that there's a pastor or counselor there, the conversation that follows that can be very helpful. And there can be follow-up. That is, the counselor or the pastor can see them a week from now, two weeks from now. And so help them walk through the grief and help the person come to the place where they can genuinely forgive them.

So yeah, I think that often could be very, very helpful. What I didn't hear you say in that confession that you gave was, here's my sin, you need to forgive me. Boom. You can't come to that with the expectation of the response of your spouse. You have to let them respond and deal with their grief and the anger, perhaps, that they have. Right? And that's really important, Chris.

Really important. Because if we come with a super spiritual spirit that says, you know, the Bible says, if a person confesses, you have to forgive. If you don't forgive me, God won't forgive you.

No, no, no. We don't demand forgiveness of our spouse. We hope that they will forgive us. And we give them the freedom to make that decision. Because forgiveness is a decision.

It's not a feeling. It's a decision. But typically, on something this grave, that decision will take some time. Because that person who's been hurt has to work through their emotions, their pain, their just shock to realize that their spouse could have done this.

It takes time. And that's why seeing a counselor or a pastor through this whole thing can be very, very helpful. She and her husband haven't been married very long, but she has a question about how to avoid being controlling.

Here's our next caller. I am 51 years old and my husband's 53. We're newly married. I was previously married for 22 years and then divorced, separated, and he has never been married. And my question is, I've spent some time living on my own in the past, so I needed to be a little bit more assertive and to advocate for myself and provide for myself. How can I ask my now husband in a way to do something without sounding like I'm controlling or being authoritative?

That's the one kind of hiccup I have. And I certainly don't mean to be sounding that way, but sometimes it comes across to him that I am. And he is the man of the house and I respect that and I just want my words to reflect that. Thank you, Gary.

Bye-bye. I think the fact that this caller has a desire not to come across as a controller is the positive part of what she's asking. Because if you have the desire and ask God to give you wisdom, you'll be able to learn how to share things in terms of a request rather than a demand.

And that's really what we're talking about here. The sense that your spouse is trying to control you is that they are demanding things of you. And none of us like to be demanded to do things.

We're free. We want to be able to make decisions. So we share things as suggestions or we share things as a request of the other person.

To me, that's really the key. You're not telling them what they must do. What you're doing is asking. For example, Honey, do you think it'd be possible for you to clean the gutters this weekend? Rather than saying, you know, if you don't clean the gutters soon, they're going to fall off the house.

They already have trees growing out of them. You know, so it's requesting things. But I do appreciate the fact that this caller has a desire not to come across as controlling. And I do understand the fact that having lived alone, I don't know how long she was alone, but having lived alone and running your own life and then you get married in the 50s, you have a pattern, you know, making your own decisions, doing what you want to do when you want to do it. And marriage, of course, is a team. We are still individuals, but we are now a part of a team.

And so we have to learn how to work as a team. So the suggestions I made earlier, I think you'll find helpful. My big question is, how high are those gutters and how high am I going to have to climb on the ladder?

And will you hold the ladder for me while I do that? You know, the question then that comes to my mind is, how do I know if I'm the spouse who's controlling? How do I know that I'm making this happen, you know, if I'm doing this well or not? And I think the answer to that is you can tell you're crossing a line when your spouse shuts down, when, you know, quiet clams up, kind of puts the eyes down, that kind of thing. You know that you've kind of come on too strongly, don't you think?

Yeah, those are clues. That's for sure, Chris. I think there is a place also to ask, you know, and just say, honey, you know, I know I've been independent and I've lived, you know, my own life and made my own decisions, and I'm adjusting to the whole marriage thing here, but I don't want to come across as a controller. I mean, we're team members, and I don't want to be telling you what to do. I want to be free to share my thoughts or my desires and maybe make requests with you, just like I want you to be able to request things from me. But if you feel like I'm coming across trying to control you, maybe you could just say, honey, I think you've crossed the line.

I think I'm feeling that you are trying to tell me this is something I've got to do, and that doesn't feel real good. So, you know, if you're open to that, they'll probably give you feedback if you tell them you want feedback. Here's our number if you want to ask a question of Dr. Gary Chapman, 866-424-GARY.

Keep your question as brief as possible. We'll try to get to it here on the next Dear Gary broadcast, 1-866-424-GARY. Now, here's a husband in a difficult situation in his marriage, and I wonder if you'll have some encouragement for him. This is our next caller.

Hey, Gary. I have a question. Me and my wife are currently married. We attend church. We're Christians, but she wants a divorce, and I still want to fight for the marriage. She says she wants a divorce, but she's not actually pushing for it, like she's not filing for it or anything, and she says that she cares about me and that she wants to be friends, but yet she keeps saying that she's not in love with me, that, you know, it's over.

What should I do? Well, you can sense the concern on the part of this husband. Any husband would be concerned when a wife starts talking about divorce, and especially if you're a Christian, because we know God's plan is that we made a covenant with each other in the presence of God and witnesses, and so we want to keep that covenant.

But again, we can't make our spouse not file for divorce. I do think counseling would be helpful at this point, and I would say, if you could say to her, Honey, would you be willing to go with me for counseling? Obviously, you're deeply hurt, or you would not be thinking divorce, and obviously there's some things that I need to change in my life, but would you be willing to go with me and let's get help from a counselor and see if we can restore our marriage? And since she's not pressing the issue right now and actually filing for divorce, she may be open to that, and she may be encouraged by the fact that you are the one who are suggesting that you go for help. The other thing I would suggest is a book that I wrote some time ago called One More Try What to Do When Your Marriage is Falling Apart. I think if the two of you could read that book together, read a chapter each week perhaps, then ask yourselves, what can we learn from that chapter? It will give you an opportunity to discuss your feelings and for her to share more openly with you the things that trouble her, but doing it in a positive way because you're simply responding to what you've read and asking, what can we learn from that? So the book is entitled One More Try What to Do When Your Marriage is Falling Apart.

And if you go to the website buildingrelationships.us, you can find that resource there along with others, buildingrelationships.us. We can't answer this question, but it raises in my mind, and that is why? Why would she want this? What lack is there in the marriage? Is there a lack of communication?

Is he spending too much? Is he working too much from her standpoint? Or the other thing that you bring up often, Gary, is there may be somebody else. Is she interested in someone? Has she found somebody else, maybe an affair, or she's thinking about this? All of those are valid to think about, right? Yeah, and all of those are possibilities, Chris, because we don't know.

I don't know. Now, he may have some idea because she may have told him some of why she's feeling this way. And if she does, then those things that she's telling him, if it's on his part, he needs to address those issues. And maybe even to say to her, I'm going to go for counseling because what I hear you saying is, I'm not kind. I'm this, I'm that, you know, and I want to go work on that. And I would like for you to go with me because I'd like for the counselor to hear your side of this.

But even if you don't, I'm going to go. That would say to her, and this man's serious. I mean, he's going for counseling because of things I've shared with him. So I think discovering what's behind her thoughts of divorce is certainly a part of any healing process.

Yes. And again, that resource, One More Try by Dr. Gary Chapman. Again, you can find out more at the website buildingrelationships.us. Before we take a break, here's a dramatic situation that our next caller describes. And she wants some advice, Gary.

Hi, Gary. I'm calling because in 1989, I separated from my abusive husband, who's also the father of my three children, and I didn't want a divorce. But what happened in 1989 is that he came back and tried to kill me via choking me to death.

It is very traumatic, for sure. But I was very traumatized, of course, but I was able to move on. And I guess my question is, there was no hope of reconciliation at that time or ever.

And so I made sure I had the kids on my own, and he kind of disappeared. It was not a good situation. Now the kids are in their adult years, but they're still traumatized from the event. And so how would you handle that situation?

And I did have a group of people around me, but when it is hopeless and there is no reconciliation possible, what would you have a woman or man do? Well, Chris, you have to feel for this lady, anyone who's gone through an attempt to kill them in any way, it has to be traumatic. And the fact that she has gone on and raised the children, and they are now adults and apparently doing well, my suggestion to her is that she get counseling on how to work through the trauma that she apparently is still feeling after all these years. It is good, I think, that she has friends.

It sounds like she's in a church or in a group, and she has friends, and that is all very, very healthy for her. But if she did not, at the time, have an experience with a counselor working through trauma, I think it would still be helpful to her to do that, even at this juncture, even after it's been a number of years. The very fact that she would call and ask indicates that she still lives with a lot of that trauma. And perhaps her adult children do as well, for that matter, because it's very, very difficult to work through something as traumatic as someone trying to kill you.

And so that would be my advice. We all have to grow through the traumatic experiences that we have in life. And it's better to walk through that trauma with someone who's been trained in that area on how to help people work through that trauma.

So I would highly suggest that she find a Christian counselor who is proficient in that area and go through the process of letting that counselor help you work through the trauma that you've experienced. This is The Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman Podcast. Thanks for listening and for telling others about our conversations. When you go to FiveLoveLanguages.com, you can find more ways to strengthen your relationships.

Just click the Resources tab and you'll find the podcast there and today's featured resource. Again, go to FiveLoveLanguages.com. All right, Gary, we're going international. This is an email of a correspondence from Cotswold, England. Hi, Gary, I'd love to hear your answer to this question on Building Relationships.

I can't call the number from the UK, but my question is, I am physically disabled and have a chronic illness which causes me a lot of pain. My boyfriend's love language is acts of service. I can't do many of the things that would make him feel loved. For example, cook a meal or vacuum. How do people navigate love languages that are or have become difficult for their partner? Mine is physical touch with words of affirmation a close second. I had almost no score on acts of service. Thank you.

That's from Rachel in the UK. Well, I think my first answer would be we have to recognize that we are where we are. You did not choose the disabilities that you have, the chronic illness that you have, and the pain that accompanies that. But it is a reality for you.

And it sounds like that these are issues that are not necessarily going to get better. So now you are in a dating relationship, but you're asking, how can I meet his need for love if his love language is acts of service and I'm not able to do many acts of service? So I think this is something that you as a couple have to deal with this reality, because he cannot expect you to do things you're incapable of doing. I think an open, honest conversation about this.

Apparently, you have read the book. You both are familiar with the concept of "The 5 Love Languages" and you both know each other's primary language. But I think to just honestly say to him, honey, you know where I am, obviously, and you know my disabilities and my problems and you know that I'm not capable of doing a lot of acts of service.

So I don't know. Do you feel love from me now in our dating relationship on a scale of zero to 10? How much love do you feel coming from me? And then how do you think we could handle this if we got married? I think an open, honest conversation about it facing the realities that are there in your life and now in your relationship, because we want to enter marriage. If we enter marriage, we want to enter it with openness toward each other. So I think having an open conversation about this and helping both of you face reality. But it doesn't mean, in my opinion, that he would necessarily say, well, I'm not going to get married because you can't speak my love language.

If he has concern for you and love for you, I doubt that he would take that position, because he would recognize there are other things that you can do, such as words of affirmation, for example, and a physical touch, perhaps, depending on what your disability is. But you can speak some of the other languages. And any of these languages can be meaningful. If we know that a person is incapable of speaking our primary language, we can emotionally give them credit for speaking love to me in a language that they are capable of doing. So I just think a good open conversation about this.

And if you really get serious about marriage, I would certainly encourage you to get premarital counseling, because I think this is the kind of thing that needs to be dealt with openly and honestly when we are moving toward marriage. I've often heard you say, too, that you can use your words if you can't do the physical acts of service for somebody else. You can say, you know, if I could stand up right now, I would love to clean the gutters or do whatever it is, so that you express that in words, even though it's not something that you did, part of your heart gets out there. Yeah, I think that could be helpful, Chris, because it's saying to them, if I were able, I would want to do this for you.

And it's no surprise to you that she scored very low on acts of service. Opposites many times attract, right? Right, absolutely, Chris. Many times the person you marry, their primary love language is your number five. So it's a choice, you know, it's a choice. I'm choosing to speak this. It's not natural for me, but I'm going to learn how to speak it.

Of course, if you don't have the ability to learn it in her situation, then you have to be honest about that. All right, if you go to the website buildingrelationships.us, you'll find out more. We have some great resources there for you.

And you can call the phone number for our next Dear Gary broadcast if something, there may be a question that you ask that will help somebody else in England. 866-424-GARY and at the website you'll see our featured resource, Your New Life with Adult Children. Here's a mom who's struggling with an adult child. It's the lifestyle choice of her daughter.

Hi, Gary. I'm the mother of an adult married girl. I found out that my daughter is having an open marriage in which both of them participate in relationships. I would like to know your advice on how to handle this.

I'm having a hard time. Well, Chris, I think any parent would have difficulty when they realize that their adult child, whether it's a boy or a girl, is in an open marriage. Open marriage means that they're both free to have sexual relationships with other people rather than simply in their marriage.

This obviously is not a biblical pattern of sexuality nor a biblical pattern of marriage. And so any parent, I think, would be disturbed by this. However, I think as parents of adult children, we have to recognize that they are adults. And we have to give them the same freedom that God gives them and gives us. You know, God has laid down in the Bible principles of right and wrong, things we should do and things we should not do. And yet He gives us the freedom to do wrong. We have to then suffer the consequences of those wrongs. But God does not make us do right. And we cannot make our adult children make right decisions or wise decisions. So we have to give them the same freedom that God gives them. Now, we can certainly share with them that we love them very much and that we feel like what they're doing is not healthy and that ultimately it's going to bring each of them sadness.

But having shared that, we must give them the freedom to do what they choose to do. Now, I don't think this means that we cut them off because God doesn't cut us off. He just lets us suffer the consequences of our choices. And He always stands with open arms, ready to forgive us and restore the relationship with Him when we're willing to confess our sins and to repent of our sins. So the prodigal son in the Bible, in the New Testament, whose son went away and spent all of his money in a wild lifestyle and ended up in a pig pen and decided, I'm going to go home and see if my dad will just give me a job on the farm. And so he came back and said that, I'm not worthy to be your son if you can just give me a job. And you remember his father's response was open arms. Let's have a party.

Kill the fatted calf. My son who's dead has now come back. And so I think we should always stand ready to receive our children back. We love them no matter what they're doing, but we don't have to affirm what they're doing. But I think we need to try to keep the lines of communication open so that they know, I will love you no matter what you do, because that's God's perspective.

He loves us no matter what we do. And when a parent communicates that to a child, I'm very disappointed. I'm hurt because I believe ultimately this is going to be bad for you. I think in the future you will discover that for yourself.

But I love you no matter what you do. I think that approach is the biblical approach for Christian parents who have children who make decisions that we know are going to be detrimental to their lives. And it sounds like that the mom has discovered this, that the daughter and her husband are keeping that a secret. You know, they don't want this to get back to mom because they probably know how she would respond to it and think it's not a good idea. So there is that aspect of it. Do you move toward them and tell them, you know, we think this is a bad idea, or I think this is a bad idea, or the Bible says, do you make inroads like that, do you think? Well, I think if the daughter has not shared this with her mother, and her mother has learned this from some other source, yes, I think there is a place for that mother to say to the daughter, if indeed the daughter is having a relationship with her, you know, someone shared this with me that you all are in an open marriage.

Can you explain that to me? And let her share with you what that means. Because whoever shared this with you used the term open marriage. And maybe they don't have the same idea that your daughter has, or that you have about that term. But, you know, you're not condemning her, you're just asking, can you share with me what that means, what you all are doing? And because you're asking, she probably will share it with you.

Because what you're trying to do is keep the lines of communication open, and not living with pain and hurt without, you know, seeking to have a relationship with your daughter, and letting her share with you what's really going on in her life. And again, if you want to leave a question for Dr. Chapman, call us, 866-424-GARY, 1-866-424-GARY. We love hearing the questions that come from other programs, other conversations that we have, like the one we're having today. So maybe there's a question that comes up from this conversation you'd like to call, 866-424-GARY. Here's our next caller.

Hi, Gary. I was just listening to your broadcast this morning, and you mentioned someone who might find help in the scriptures if they have no one that they feel loves them. And I was wondering how that would work for someone whose love language is physical touch. In other words, this woman, if that was her love language, how would she find happiness through the scriptures for that physical touch?

Thank you. It's a good question, Chris. I wrote a whole book entitled, God Speaks Your Love Language, in which I demonstrated from scripture that God speaks all five love languages. And one of the things I looked at is how people come to Christ. And often there's a parallel between how they sense the love of God and their love language.

On physical touch, I used Saul, who later became Paul. Remember, he was going to Damascus to put Christians in jail. And on the way, he had an encounter with God that was physical. A light shone from heaven.

It knocked him off his animal. He was blinded, physically blinded. And a voice from heaven saying, why are you persecuting me? And Saul said, who are you?

And the voice said, I'm Jesus whom you're persecuting. And of course, he went on into Damascus as he was demanded, and met with people there who were Christians. And in due time, of course, he accepted the reality of God because he was touched physically by God. And there are people in church history and people today who have that kind of conversion experience. I've heard people say, you know, I was sitting there in church and my body started shaking. And I started crying. And I just felt God's arms around me.

And I knew I had to go forward and give my life to Christ. Well, not everybody has that kind of experience when they come to Christ. But people who have physical touches, their primary love language, often do have that kind of experience with God.

So that's why I say that if a person is not married or doesn't have any other people close to them that's speaking their love language, God speaks your love language. I wrote a small book with York Moore, who grew up in an atheistic home. His families were atheists. But at the university, he became a Christian and later went on to work with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, speaking on Christian campuses all over the country. And we got together and wrote a book called Seen, Known and Loved.

And the primary audience we had in mind was college students, because we understand there's a pandemic of loneliness on college campuses today. And what we're saying in that book, you are seen by God, you are known by God, you are loved by God. And we talk about the fact that God speaks all five of these languages. That's what I had in mind when I shared the idea that if you're lonely and you don't feel loved by anybody, God does love you. And if you look for his love in keeping with your love language, I think you'll find God. You know, the other thing is to look for those scriptures that talk about the touch of God. And the first one that came to my mind was Isaiah 40, 11.

We had this on a wall in our home that we had in Colorado. He tends his flock like a shepherd. He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart.

He gently leads the nursing ewes. So that whole idea of the shepherd heart of God and gathering us in his arms and carrying them close, you steep your life in those kinds of thoughts and something will change on the inside when you think about God. We have time for one more question, Gary, and in this one you can hear it in her voice. She's been hurt by her husband's choices.

Here's our final call. My question is about in your marriage. There's multiple verses in the Bible about adultery and then also Jesus talks about if you commit adultery in your heart. By lusting after another person is that grounds for divorce, pornography usage, and knowing that your husband looks at other women and objectifies you instead of wanting you for you. Because of my history in abuse, I just get very angry now trying to talk to him about it. He said he stopped, but he lied about it many times. And now I just am at my wits end and just wondering how, like, if the person doesn't actually change or lie, what do you do? Because I don't know if I want to stay married. Thank you.

Bye-bye. You know, Chris, in my office I've heard this many, many times when a wife discovers that her husband is on pornography. Oftentimes she blames herself and sometimes asks, you know, what's wrong with me that he has to go into an unreal world? And sometimes they're expressing what this lady does, you know, I just can't believe that he would do that. And the Bible does say, you know, adultery, of course, is sin.

I mean, that's very clear. And Jesus said, if you look on a woman to lust after her, you've committed adultery with her already in your heart. So he condemned heart adultery as well as physical adultery. She's asking, is this a biblical grounds for divorce?

And I don't know that I would want to be so bold as to say yes altogether. I think there is a difference between physical adultery and mental adultery. Physical adultery involves two people, two real people. Mental adultery involves one person, but the other person is not involved. I mean, the person that's doing all of the pornography is not involved with this person who's looking at it.

So it is different, but it's also very painful. And I can understand the pain of this lady. She has done, it sounds to me like, what she should have done, and that is ask him if he will go to counseling, if he will break this pattern in his life. If he's been doing this for a long time, it's an addiction, just like cocaine or some other drug. So he will have to have divine help if he's going to break this pattern. But encouraging him to reach out to get that kind of help is what a wife can do. And I would say you're not going to help the situation just by criticizing him and telling him how awful he is.

I think you certainly have already communicated how you feel about this, and you should feel that way. But I think loving him in a positive way, especially speaking his love language, would be a positive influence on him. Whereas criticizing him and perhaps even yelling at him about what he's doing simply drives him further away. Love tends to draw people together. And when you love somebody who's not loving you, or at least you don't feel loved by them, something happens in that relationship that's positive. You know, the Scriptures say we love God because he first loved us. His love stimulated us to love him. And that principle is true in human relationships. So loving him, in spite of the fact that he is breaking your heart in this manner, is still much more positive than just being critical of him. So it doesn't mean that if you love him, in his love language, that he will turn away from that.

But he's far more likely to go for counseling and seek to deal with this issue if he senses that you're loving him in spite of the fact that he knows he doesn't deserve your love. I don't think you can do that without the help of God. But God loved us while we were sinners.

And so we can love others with the help of God while they are sinning against us. And it's the most positive influence we can have on another person. What if his response is, there's nothing wrong with this. You're too uptight.

I've done this forever. Nobody thinks it's a bad idea. You know, it's not hurting anybody. You need to get over it.

What do you do then? Well, I think she has to make a decision as to whether she can live with that reality or cannot live with that reality. And there is a place, I think, if she's made every effort for him to get help with this issue, to say to him, I love you too much to simply sit here and accept that. And so I'm going to move out.

It doesn't necessarily even lead to divorce. But I'm going to move out because I love you too much to sit here and just confirm what you're doing. And if you ever want to get help, I'm willing to go for counseling with you. I'm not abandoning you. I love you. I want us to have a loving relationship.

But I love you too much to just simply accept what you're saying and doing. Well, some hard situations and hard questions today. Before we conclude, here's our number. If you want to respond to something we've talked about or ask another question of Dr. Chapman, 1-866-424-GARY.

If you'd rather remain anonymous, just give us your question and I can read it. That's 1-866-424-GARY. And go to buildingrelationships.us and you'll see the new resource, Your New Life with Adult Children.

It's at buildingrelationships.us. And coming up next week, gather the kids and get ready for 12 classic Christmas stories. Don't miss the motivation to read these stories out loud. Dr. Tim Larson joins us in one week. A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Backing. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.