Emotional Hoarding | Laurie Davies

Are you holding on to things that keep you stuck? No one should feel shame that they've emotionally hoarded because Jesus wants to show us we don't have to self-protect because He is our protector. Tastes so good. and he wants us to live free. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, author and speaker Lori Davies reveals the freedom you can find when you let go of the emotional baggage you carry. If you go to our website, buildingrelationships.us, you'll see our featured resource, Lori's book, Emotional Hoarding. The subtitle is Letting Go of the Stuff That Keeps You Stuck. Again, you'll see it at buildingrelationships.us.

And Gary, I like that subtitle because there are so many people, I think, who feel stuck in their lives. You agree with that? Yeah, absolutely, Chris. And there's many reasons. And this book deals with a number of those.

So I'm excited about our program today. I think it's going to help people. Who will realize that they're stuck?

Okay.

Some of them already realize it and they're looking for help.

So glad we're going to have a good discussion with Laurie. Let's Meet Lori Davies. She is a former journalist, women's ministry director. She's an author, speaker, lay counselor. She encourages women to trade their emotional hoards for freedom.

Lori lives in Mesa, Arizona with her husband of 30 years, Greg. Their adult son, Morgan, lives nearby. Her book, Emotional Hoarding, is our featured resource at buildingrelationships.us.

Well, Laurie, welcome to Building Relationships. Hey, thank you so much for having me on today. I've had this date circled on my calendar for a while now.

Well, great.

Well, we're glad you're here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Now, Chris said you were a former journalist and women's ministry director, your wife, your mom. Who is Laurie Davies? You know, most days I probably am asking myself that question. Who is Lori Davies? I think as it relates to our content today, For almost as long as I can remember, words have helped me make sense of the world.

You know, so I was that kid riding my bike to the bookmobile every Wednesday.

Some of your listeners will remember that. And I'm I'm really you know, I live in the desert, so I'm really pretty much a word nerd with a tan. I love sitting at my keyboard using nouns and verbs to make people feel, especially to make them feel drawn to or alive in Jesus. And so that's the professional side. And I guess the side that really drives me, I'm a huge baseball fan.

Oh. Huge. Played softball when I was a kid. Um, you know, my maiden name was Huth, H-U-T-H, German.

So, uh, my softball nickname was Babe Huth. I don't know if it gets any better than that.

So, big baseball and love to hike with my husband. We have lots of desert trails out here in the Phoenix area, live in the beautiful.

Southwest and these days I'm you know, on the personal side of things, really loving. The Transition in my relationship with my son. He lives close by. It's a deeply good thing. We see each other and talk pretty often.

And, you know, he's all grown up. And I love the man he's become.

So that's a little bit about. who I am when I'm not sitting at my keyboard. Yep.

Well, that's great. We're all glad when our children grow up and are doing well.

So let me ask this. Was there a personal reason that you wanted to tackle this topic of emotional baggage?

Well, I mean, I talk about a lot of my own in the pages of the book.

So I guess that's exhibit A. I'm exhibit A. But in really years now of ministry, I've seen something That is kind of concerning, especially, you know, with women. That's the lane I'm in the most. Uh especially the 40s.

you know i would say maybe mid 30s 40s 50s and even 60s group You know, knives are heavy. A lot of us feel and look just burdened. And so I'm kind of burdened about that. One of my former pastors, he's the current chancellor and former president of Phoenix Seminary, Darrell Del Husse. He often says, you know, some of us look like we've been baptized in pickle juice.

And so I felt this burden for Christian women who are burdened. As for the hoarding piece, I think most of us have kind of a mental picture of physical hoarding. Maybe someone in your life. Is a physical hoarder, but even if you've just flipped the channels and seen the cable show, you have a picture of the toll that physical hoarding takes. On someone's life.

And as it relates to your podcast, to your show, the lives of those around them. Physical hoarding and emotional hoarding really damage our relationships.

So, from a house to a heart, I think the same principles apply. You know, hoarded hearts are an awful lot like hoarded homes. And if we allow all this accumulation To get out of control, it just takes a toll.

So I have a real heart for. helping women to see That They can walk in the freedom. That Jesus talks about, you know, that he came to deliver. It's not just a sermon on Sunday that kind of sparks and clicks in our soul for a minute. But then we walk away back to our burdened lives.

It's It's For us, he died to give it to us, and so. I'm going to start a whole sermon right now if we just keep going on this in this space. But that kind of is, you can hear some of it bubbling up. It really drives me. The burdened life is not what Jesus has for us.

Yeah.

So emotional baggage, you know, we've heard that term. I don't know that we've heard the term as much though, emotional hoarding. But you're saying it's it's uh Well well explain it to us, emotional hoarding. What wha how would you put it in the words? Yeah.

You know, emotional baggage has almost become like a joke we we see memes and But when we're being serious about it, it's kind of a blanket term, I would say, for unresolved emotions or emotional problems. Yeah.

How how can you tell i if you are an emotional hoarder? What are the signs?

Well, first of all, emotional hoarding, I would say, is sort of an accumulation. It's the collecting and stockpiling of heart emotions with no intention of letting go.

So that's. Her first clue. Am I holding on to this? Do I feel like I can't let it go? Like maybe sometimes we do with shame.

Do I feel like I don't want to let it go? because I like how that grudge feels in my hand.

So, how can you tell if you're an emotional hoarder? I think the first question, and it's kind of a courageous question. is to ask What am I holding on to? Do I think about this a lot? Am I ruminating on this a lot?

Or am I trying to stuff it?

So, those are some universal clues. And then You know, the book covers 10 emotions that we hold on to or, you know, quote hoard. And each of those have their own kind of individual. Cues. and clues.

So I'll just throw one out there with worthlessness, for example.

Some of the clues that you might actually be hanging on to worthlessness. Uh it maybe you're a people pleaser. You're always tap dancing. to get others' approval. Or you live by comparison.

You compare your performance to others as a measure of your worth. negative self-talk. you know, our boundaries take a hit. Those can be kind of specific clues.

So each chapter offers kind of a list, if you will, of some of the cues and clues that this might be something you're hanging on to.

So I'm hearing that you have hope for people. Who identify themselves and realize, yes, I've got these things that I'm holding on to. But you really believe there's hope for those people. There's absolutely hope. Uh, you know, in fact, since we're talking about hoarding or holding on to things, one of my favorite scriptures is Hebrews 10:23, which says.

let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess. For he who promised is faithful. You know, there's choice here, Dr. Chapman. There's agency.

We can choose to hold on to hard things. Or we can hold unswervingly. to hope. That's very good news. For any of us who recognize we are holding on to fear or grudges or regrets.

We serve a God who doesn't look at us from a distant place. He actively becomes involved in our healing. You know, the word says the Holy Spirit prays for us. Jesus, seated at the right hand of God, prays for us. That's a theological pretzel, but it's also very very good news for us.

That the one who holds all power Problem solving, creativity, and healing. He's on our side in this.

So there's absolutely hope.

So Laurie, the book covers, as you mentioned earlier, 10 emotions that hurt us if we hoard them. Uh the first you deal with is worry. describe the hoarder of worry. What does their life look like? This could be almost autobiographical.

I think I'm a recovering worry hoarder.

So, the hoarder of worry is problem solving all the time. Brain never shuts off. Because, you know, problem solving is how we dress up worry, right? We can make worry sound noble and even constructive, but the worrier is always trying to work things out. They're more than likely ruminating on the worry.

fixating on how they'll fix things. And, you know, unsurprisingly, this comes out in our physiology.

So warriors have actually scientifically been shown to have increased muscle tension, racing heart. Sleep problems. Irritability. If you see one or several of those signs, It may be time to to dial down the worry and honestly The list is helpful, but you probably know if you're a worry hoarder. Um you know you can't kind of shut it off.

It's just always there running, clicking. and never resolved. And often keeping you awake at night. Yeah.

Yeah.

Hey, that's a really good point, Dr. Chapman, because if it's the last thing you're thinking about. Or the first thing that you're thinking about, or if it's the thing waking you up in the middle of the night. It could be time to to get a handle on worry. Yeah.

So why did you start with this particular emotion and what have you learned personally about it?

Well, I wanted my readers to make quick progress. You know, something like emotional hoarding can sound Intimidating, and I'll never make it through that book.

So, worry is, I think, a fairly universal emotion. Wanted to start there because I think we all to some degree experience it. And, like I said, I wanted my reader to make quick progress. By that I mean scripture offers a really elegant way to kind of close the worry loop. We may get into that if you want to, but what I learned.

to your question is that worry stacks on worry. And this just starts to overwhelm us, very much like a physical horde. You kind of look around and go, well, where would I start?

So, I wanted to hit that one first because once we. Kind of work out how we can close the worry loop, then that frees up some. Capacity in our hearts, if you will, for us to tackle some of the harder things that come later in the book. Yeah.

So is worry something that you you can conquer or overcome? Or is it something you just learn how to keep at bay? Wh what what's your approach to dealing with hoarding worry? It's not my approach.

So I'll let Scripture kind of do the heavy lifting here. I think, as I mentioned just a minute ago, scripture really does offer. An elegant way to close the worry loop, and it's found in Philippians 4:8.

So all the all the whatevers, you know, whatever is true. Whatever is noble. whatever is right. Whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy. Think on such things.

So here the Lord. is offering a way for us to walk with him and work things out with him as every worry arises. And I kind of walk through those and unpack what each of those mean. In my chapter on worry. But I also look at the verses that come just before and kind of put that whole package together.

And it was so freeing and eye-opening. You know, the verses that come right before the do not be anxious for anything. You know, somebody quotes that to us when we're feeling worried and we just want to.

Well, I'll just refer them to my chapter on anger. You know, it's, but I had never noticed until I was on vacation with a friend. And we were sitting poolside talking about this collection of verses, what comes right before the Do Not Worry verse, and it's this. The Lord is near. I don't think scripture ever meant for those ideas to be unhooked.

It's our chapter and verse numbering that came later that created that. But so that changes everything, right? The Lord is near. So do not be anxious for anything. But in everything by prayer and supplication.

And then you move through that verse, and then all the whatever's come.

So there's this deep, deep reset. of just being reminded of the Lord's presence. and that He wants to hear from us in prayer. And that's the thing that will guard our hearts and our minds, which is what we're talking about in this book. Then we get to changing our thoughts, you know, whatever is true, whatever is noble, and all the whatevers.

So that's kind of the plan, I guess, that if we're working that plan. We really can close the worry loop. A few months ago I was really worried about something. It started to consume me. And I thought, well, I wrote a whole chapter on this.

I better get that out. And I read the chapter and. Guys, it works. Like scripture works. Why would we ever be amazed by that?

But I felt. Much more peace, the worry loop closed, it freed up capacity for me to go about the other much more productive tasks. in my day.

So that's kind of where where we go. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I like that.

So now why why do you think that we tend to hold on to emotions that are hurting us, and we know they're hurting us, but we just we tend to hold on to them. Wha why why is that? I honestly want to hear from you on this, but I think our reasons can be so varied.

sometimes we want to hold on. Kind of a Don't touch our stuff, you know, especially With grudges, which are how The emotion of bitterness works out through grudges, right?

So sometimes we like how they feel in our hands. You know, or we feel entitled to that.

Sometimes it's a little softer than that. We feel like if we let go of the grudge, it will erase the. Yeah.

Um Sometimes we think holding on is somehow protective.

So regret. And maybe even shame come to mind here. We think if we hold on to those things That they'll somehow prevent us from relapsing into poor choices or. I don't know, we kind of twist them and they start to seem noble in a way, if that makes sense.

Sometimes this stuff was imprinted on us when we were young.

So it's what we grew up believing. And sometimes we don't even know we're holding on. I think the reasons are so varied. Yeah, the other thing I would say is we're in a spiritual battle and the enemy would love for us to hang on to w to worry, you know, and and brings to our minds things, you know, that just continue that. I wonder if there's not an element, as I'm listening to this and filtering it through my worried mind today.

I wonder if there's not an element of control, too, is why we hang on to it, because I love to be in control of my world. And if I hang on to this worry or I hang on to the anger or even the shame, there's a sense that I have control over it. I don't really, but it feels that way. What do you say, Lori?

Well, I think that's a A great point. I mean, we we sometimes are We don't like vulnerability, do we? Nope. And so control feels very protective. It's a way of mitigating the risk that we feel around.

being vulnerable. um feeling exposed So yeah, I think that's a a really good point. And the enemy loves that too, right? If he can keep us spinning out. Trying to maintain control, keeping us in opposition to Proverbs 3, 5, and 6: trust in the Lord with all your heart.

And lean not on your own understanding. If he can pit. our emotions against that. Then You know, he hardly has to really Resource. keeping us stuck.

We're a willing participant in it. Right, yeah. How about fear? That's another emotion. Seems to control a lot of people.

And in today's world, there's a lot of reasons, we could say, for fear. Talk about the effects of fear on the emotional hoarder. There are so many tentacles to fear and I kind of had to focus Where I wanted to go with that.

So, ironically, following on the last question, I really looked at control. Because that's often how fear works itself out. Right, if I can control My environment, if I can control my emotions, if I can even to the extreme try to control other people. then I feel safer.

So that's the piece I focused on: was control and controlling behavior. You know, I'm going to be hard on maybe your female listeners for a minute because, as women, I think we can tend to reframe control as helpfulness. But really it's fear. You know, if we can just control everything on the game board, that brings predictability to our own hearts. And the problem with this is that it really takes a toll.

On relationships primarily with God, because we're now living in an active disconnect. To the really open-handed kind of trust and surrender. that that he wants from us. But in our earthly relationships, and it works itself out most closely with family, you know, it leaves control leaves no room for allowing others' feelings to be validated in any way. You know, I find that a lot of people are fearful.

Not just of the culture in which we live, in which all kinds of things are happening, but in terms of their own health. you know, fearful that they get a pain, that this might be cancer or this might be that. And so they live in fear of something that may not be there at all, but because they've so had friends maybe who have gone through, you know, really critical physical things that they have an unjustified fear of that sort of thing.

Well, that's a place where we're really vulnerable, right? Our health, our bodies. You know, when Jesus asked all the, he didn't ask, I should say, when he said, do not worry. About your health. Do not worry about what you'll eat, what you'll wear.

He was hitting. People were worried then about the same things we're worried about now. Am I going to be okay? Yeah.

And health is one of the ways where we feel most vulnerable when it it goes Sideways. You know, for parents, that's one of the main questions that Gary gets when we do, you know, call Gary with your question. It is about children who've walked away from the faith or their marriage is on the rocks or, and there's just so much to worry about with your kids. And you mentioned your son who lives nearby and you have a good relationship. That can consume you, can't it?

Yeah.

I'm so moved when I read The The story of the prodigal son. And all of the elements, we've all heard such excellent teaching on that. But I'm so moved when I consider the father and how he was ready to throw a party. when his son arrived home.

So he was watching at the door for his boy while also working. Like his life went on. He still was running a, you know, what looks to be a thriving operation. He had a fatted calf that he could kill to throw the the huge party when his son arrived home. And I think that's a It's a really hard tension to walk for anyone who, whether it's a prodigal son or a prodigal parent, you know, maybe some of your listeners are.

Are disowned, or orphaned kind of by living parents. That's a painful place to be. or they're waiting for their kids to come home or They're waiting for the cancer to go away, that waiting spot. I just I think there's such beauty in in how the the father in the prodigal father story. He figured out a way for his life to go on while he also longed.

for in this case the the son who had gone off track to come home. Yeah, I've often found it interesting about the prodigal son's father that he did not go out. trying to find his son and bring him back. He allowed him to be a human and make decisions, you know, even though they were poor decisions. But he gave his son the freedom to leave.

You know, just like God gives us freedom, if we want to walk away from him, we can. But I'm sure he prayed for him. And when God brought him, his son, to the place where he realized, I need to go home. Then the Father was ready to receive him, wide open to receive him. I don't get the sense that he was worried.

I think he put him into God's hands. Lori, we're talking about fear. Have you seen people who have been set free from fear or at least lightened the grip that it has on their lives? You know, Dr. Chapman, my mother-in-law comes to mind.

She went to be with Jesus a few years ago, several years ago now. But from all accounts life.

So when she was raising little kids, the youngest of whom is my husband of thirty years, Gregg. By all accounts, she really was locked up in her life. Uh by fear. And so the Lucy Davies that I knew once I married her son. In, you know, we were in our 20s.

I have no greater example on this earth of someone who loved Jesus' love for her. Like she was childlike in her faith, which, of course, scripture calls us to be, but she truly was. When we'd be in Bible study and she'd grab some new Epiphany from scripture, and just she'd be so undone. By Jesus' love for her. And of course, we know from scripture that it's perfect love.

that drives out fear. And I think she's my kind of real life example of just watching that play out.

So yeah, I would say my mother-in-law. You're listening to The Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast. He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . When you go to buildingrelationships.us, you can take a free assessment of your love language and see when Gary might be coming to your area for a seminar.

You'll also see the book by our guest, Lori Davies. It's titled, Emotional Hoarding, Letting Go of the Stuff That Keeps You Stuck. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us or go to fivelovelanguages.com.

Now, you deal with ten different emotions. What was the hardest emotion for you to write about? Yeah, I think for me it was. worthlessness I see a lot of women my age. kind of grappling with that, but I had to grapple with it first before I could really write about it.

Probably my core wound.

So it was hard to kind of get in that place of why do I... Why have I brought this into my... adult life. You know, one of the things that was uh A real breakthrough for me personally writing that chapter was Just looking, searching scripture for all of the beautiful things. that God speaks over us.

Truly breathtaking. And then if you take a step back from that, realizing, well, he's the one who made me. And this may land with your listeners today, too. Anyone who has spoken damaging. Um untrue.

really wounding or insulting things over you. have no right actually to say them because they didn't make you.

So the one who made you is the one who gets to decide. your worth. And there were a lot of tears on the page while I was. writing this chapter and realizing this was something I had hoarded. And I didn't want anybody else to be under that burden.

So pretty passionate about that chapter. I do think that what a Child or teenager hears greatly impacts them in this area. I had a young man not long ago said to me, He said, All I ever heard growing up is that I was lazy, and that I would never amount to anything. And he said, it took me a long time to realize that I don't have to live out what they were saying, you know, that God could give me the ability. to do some things that are worthwhile.

It's groundbreaking. Yeah, that whole the whole spiritual thing is important, right?

So important. You know, can I follow up with a question for you? Surely. Why do you think it's so hard? Especially when we're going back and talking about that childhood stuff.

Why do you think it's so hard to unhear?

some of those things that that You know, imprinted on us in childhood. Yeah.

Well, they're ingrained and they're printed there very deeply. And the thoughts keep coming back and you keep hearing the words again, you know. And of course the enemy wants to use that and does use that often to keep people in bondage by it. But that's where I think again, what you've been alluding to, passages in the scripture which clearly go against whatever people told us. You know, I was just reading recently my own devotional time, Psalm 139.

And he talks about everything God knows about us when we get up and when we sit down and he goes and our motives and everything else. And wherever I go, God is there and he is with me. And oh, I mean, you start reading the scriptures. You realize if you have a relationship with God that those messages were not true, you know, that happened to be the opinion of our parents, but it's certainly not true. And that's not the way God sees you.

And God doesn't see me that way.

So, yeah.

So that's why I think Christians really We have outside help if we turn if we turn. Oh, that's good. Yeah.

That's right. Isaiah 43 was the thing that really kind of cracked that whole thing open for me. This, it's a, it's the first four verses, I won't read all of them, but you know, God's basically saying, I went to great lengths. To get to you, to protect you. And verse four, really.

Changed the whole game for me. And it's the why. Why did he do it? And this is the Lord speaking: because you are precious in my eyes. and honoured And I love you.

Mm. Powerful, powerful.

Well, let's talk about regret. I find that regrets from the past can really hold people back from living fully in today's world. Uh uh how how do you how do we deal with regrets?

Well, regret keeps us looking back, right? I mean just the very Word itself, most of us don't have to go too far in our minds to think about some serious regrets we have. And there's a pretty key fork in the road. right away and it we need to ask ourselves, did we sin? Because Regret born from sin has a really clear path.

Written, and I love this so much, written by the Apostle Paul. When we think about Paul and all the regret that could have impeded his ministry. buried him Um He is the one who got to write the words in 2 Corinthians. 710, that gives us a path out of regret. That's regret born from sin.

I think your question maybe hints a little bit more at the regret that is not born from sin.

So, you know, I wish I had taken that job in the big city. Or what would my life have been like if I hadn't rushed into that relationship? And these can be so hard on our hearts, as you mentioned, you know, my friend and Neuropsychologist Michelle Bankston, I interviewed her for the book, and she said, This is like trying to fix a ghost. because the event lacks resolution.

So I think We have to find some way to rewrite that. Otherwise, we're just living with this ghost our whole lives. and grace is one. A really important ingredient in the rewriting of that. Grace, Has to loom larger than our regret.

And I talk about that at length in my chapter on regret. You have the example of the Apostle Paul. who did a lot of things in his early life. that he could have re that he did regret. He was out to kill Christians.

And so when it is, the regret is based on sin. That's where God's grace comes in, right? You just it's amazing that God will forgive me for that and not hold that against me. Yeah.

Yeah, he actually takes our side against our own sins. It's it's incredible. No other god invites that kind of problem-solving, much less intimacy. Yeah.

And and and says, I will never again hold it against you.

So if God's not going to hold it against us, why should we beat ourselves over the head? Yes, it happened. Yes, it wasn't good. But now, you know, let's go on and let's serve the God who has shown us grace.

So, yeah.

Right. Yeah, Grace shores up that gap. It really does. I think when we resist it It's almost like sailing a little bit. You know, you can you can sail.

against the wind, but you have to zigzag to do it. But if we get grace behind us and let it offer full propulsion.

Well, now we're moving at a clip. We're not, you know. having to fight against what God is freely. given us.

Well, in this whole thing of emotional ho h hoarding, What surprised you most as you were researching this whole topic? You know, I was blown away when I was researching my... chapter on bitterness, so I was looking at grudges. And there's a researcher who has studied grudge keeping. And he found that we Hold seven grudges at a time.

That surprised me. I don't know if that surprises you. You may hear that number and think, well, that's actually small. But I kind of had to stop and go, well, am I holding seven grudges? And You know, when I speak at women's events, I've kind of taken this and said, because I'll see, I'll see women processing it in real time.

And I'll see the faces like, well, I don't hold any grudges.

So I'll make a crack, like, well, so you may not feel. like you have any grudges, but That means the woman next to you is holding 14. And they laugh, but. I think if we're honest with ourselves. We would probably have stacked a few grudges up.

The more I interact with women at speaking events and churches around the country, some of us feel entitled to hold that one grudge, that one thing. I can't forget that thing. My husband who betrayed me and left me, or, you know, that friend who. Petty jealousy got in the way, and she said those words. I just can't forgive that.

And I just don't see an out for that in scripture. And it's probably because Jesus is a lot smarter than us and knew that holding grudges not only would be very hard on our hearts, but it pits us against the primary work that he came to do. Hmm. Yeah, that's amazing. But I think, you know, sometimes we hold grudges against God, too, right?

Yeah, we think in our in our moments of pain or struggle that Somehow he didn't show. And you see that a lot in the Psalms when you're reading, you know, things David said, where are you, God? Why do you let this happen? You know? I love the psalm where he says, I'm paraphrasing, I don't have it right in front of me, but God is my rock, said Why have you forsaken me?

So that's an honest cry. You know, I think it also reflects that we have to be in a place with God where. David, I should say, anyway, was in a place with God where he felt like he could hurl those questions. Like here he is in one breath saying, God, you're my rock. And here's in the other breath, he's saying, where'd you go?

And I think there's a A depth of relationship there where he felt safe enough to cry out and say that hard thing to God. That really speaks to me. Laurie, we're talking about hoarding, emotional hoarding in the book and also in life. Do you think women suffer with this more than men, or do you have any concept of whether that might be true? You know, do you remember the old secret slogan from years ago, strong enough for a man made for a woman?

Maybe, maybe that's what maybe that'll be my out. No, listen, I think men could definitely see themselves in these pages. I think the chapters on you know, anger. and pride and even dread. About kind of secrets we're keeping might really resonate with the guys in your audience.

And that is not to say that men are more angry. Or more prideful. Women express it, I think, in different ways.

So, for example, with anger, I think our anger comes out as irritability. frustration I'm being critical maybe. But so I think men could see themselves in these pages, but I really did have women in their. you know, 30s, 40s, 50s. 60s in mind when writing I think We are a particular target for the enemy.

And if he can keep us. Busy. Building I don't know, emotional skyscrapers in our hearts. Then he's got us distracted, unfocused, and not free. And We're also limiting the way that we allow him to move in our hearts.

You know, there's a line in the book that says if Jesus is going to live in our Hearts, let's fix it up nice for him. Hmm. Yeah.

So, I think hoarding this stuff really limits the way we love, and that's universal, that applies to men and women, and I think. You know, men and women will will see themselves in different chapters in different ways. But yeah, women were the primary target. Let's talk just a little bit about anger. Because the scriptures say God is angry every day with the wicked.

We are made in God's image. And we too have a concern for right. And so many times we get angry when we sense that things someone has done is not right. And God's anger leads him, motivates him to reach out and seek to bring us to repentance.

So, there is a sense in which anger can be used of God in our lives. to right the wrongs that are going on.

So there is a sense in which the feeling of anger It's not sinful. Would you agree with that? Or what you're doing? Absolutely. Yeah, sure.

I mean, I think, yeah, that's biblical. I don't even think that's a. Yeah, I think anger when it leads to sin and the distance can be very short, right? We saw that with King and Abel. Right.

spoke to Cain. and really gave him an opportunity to correct. The thing that was such, you know, such a source of jealousy and anger. It's notable in that passage, Cain didn't reply to the Lord. His next words were to speak to Abel.

And so, yeah, the distance between Anger and sin is very short. And so, in that same passage, you know, the Lord said, sin is. Ready to pounce.

So that's a crouch position, right? Or I think the Lord actually said sin is crouching. Yeah.

So, yeah, I think we have to have our antenna straight up that when we're angry, the distance to sin can be short. But I really like you bringing this point up because it's a really angry world that we live in right now. Yes. And I think as Christians, Anger is a valid emotion. All of the emotions in this book are valid with the exception I would submit of pride.

We don't want that. That places us directly in opposition to God. But all of these emotions are valid. Anger is a valid emotion. But I think when we're in that hot place of anger, it's really important to kind of go low and slow.

And ask, what is this? Telling me, is there something deeper that needs attention? you know anger we commonly talk about as a secondary emotion.

So it Is it masking fear? Are you erupting in anger because you're really sad? or scared. And those things are harder to name. Anger is a a great Clue to stop and ask yourself: is there something deeper that needs attention?

and sit with the Lord in it before before we lash out. Yeah, I think we are responsible for responding to the emotion of anger. in a godly way But Satan would like for us to respond in an ungodly way. And when we do, we make things worse. Always make things worse, yeah.

Well, now there's a chapter in the book on dispelling the dread of secrets.

Now what are you talking about in that chapter? Oh, well, another area when I was researching the book that really surprised me was that most of us. That all of us actually are harboring on average 13 secrets. Not all of them are sin. You know, some of them might be just there's something going on in our life that isn't sinful, but we don't wish to blab it to the world.

But some of them were things that we kind of keep under the floorboards. Secrets that we don't What? others to discover. And the dread that we live in around all of that. Which, you know, there's a lot of overlap with worry.

There's a lot of overlap with fear, right? But dread, I would say, is sort of throw both of those in the blender. and turn it up real high. And that kind of purees as dread. Living in constant dread that we'll be found out for something we are keeping secret I am convinced is one of the greatest tools of the enemy.

Hmm. 'Cause he lives in darkness. He thrives in darkness. And He wants us to be stuck in that space too, he wants us to feel trapped in our own lives. Yeah.

Rather than freely stepping into the beauty of the calling that that God has for us.

So that's kind of where we go with that. Yeah, and that's so common that people have things that they're doing that they know. are not good and yet they don't want anybody to know about it, but they do have that sense of dread. What what's gonna happen if my wife Really finds out about what's going on here, or my husband, or anyone else. The fact is, of course, God knows God knows already.

There are no secrets with God. That should br bring us. To open our hearts to God, you know, and allow Him to acknowledge our wrong and ask God to forgive us, you know, so. That's the first stop in that chapter, just kind of coming clean to God, lowering the fig leaf. In front of God.

And it's so cleansing and beautiful and intimate and right and pure, and every superlative you could think of. We're basically going before Him and saying, I'm ready to tell you what you already know. And the beauty of that is he doesn't condemn us he doesn't He's not disgusted with us. He's not disappointed with us. But the the cleansing of that process It's the most freeing thing.

That I've ever experienced. And so that's really where we start in that chapter and in that process of just. Going before God and saying, okay, I'm ready to have a discussion about this instead of, you know. Jumping back into the bushes and pulling the fig leaf up because I'm afraid of that exposure. Laurie, as we come to the end of our time today on the program, what is your heart for the readers?

as they consider this idea of emotional hoarding. What do you most want them to take away from this book and our discussion today? Yeah, thanks for asking that. I think mostly I want My readers to know that they can live lighter. This life We're made for more.

You know, God has set eternity on our hearts, but He wants good stuff for us right now on this side of eternity too. I hope readers of Emotional Hoarding will go to church and hear the pastor preach on freedom, and now they'll feel it in their bones because it's real for them. Because they've been able to Look at some of the emotional kind of stacks and stockpiles in their hearts and understand that that. not only is hurting them, but there's a much, much better way. And you know.

Dr. Chapman, we laugh a lot on this journey. Emotional hoarding sounds heavy. But there's a lot of humor in these pages. I needed it.

You can't write a book like this without, you know, kind of taking a break and just stopping to. I think readers will laugh a lot, probably mostly at me. I tell a lot of stories that are funny, but it's not a heavy. Um no one's going to feel beaten up. Along this journey, no one should feel shame that they've emotionally hoarded because some of these things, as we've noted in our conversation, really.

We're self-protective. In some way, and I think Jesus wants to show us we don't have to self-protect because He is our protector. He's so good. And he wants us to live free.

Well, I agree with you, and I hope that our listener knows that this book is going to help you. And everybody will identify with parts of this book. And I do think the humor in the book is also very, very helpful.

So thank you for being with us today. Thank you for taking the time and energy to research and write the book. And I want to encourage our listeners to get a copy. And I think if you read it, you'll think of some people in your circle that you would like for them to read it as well.

So again, thanks for being with us today. Thank you so much, Dr. Chapman. It's been a great conversation. I appreciate you having me on.

What an encouraging conversation with Lori Davies. You can find her book Emotional Hoarding at buildingrelationships.us, subtitled Letting Go of the Stuff That Keeps You Stuck. Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. And next week, How do you love your neighbor as yourself? Don't miss Chip Ingram in one week.

Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Backing. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.