Lightbulb Moments in Marriage | Emerson Eggerichs

Have you ever had a light bulb moment in your marriage? And that's why I say to the couple who feels that they're hopeless, tell me why you feel that way. Have they betrayed you? Is there adultery there? Or is this, at the end of the day, just two people who have goodwill, but they are missing each other because they don't have a little knowledge and a little skill that I address in the new book called Light Bald Moments.

Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . For decades, Dr. Emerson Egridge has listened to thousands of husbands and wives share their stories of transformation. Time after time they describe light bulb moments, those powerful realizations that turned confusion and hurt into clarity and hope.

Have you had one of those moments in your marriage? There's a new book by Dr. Egrich that we'll talk about today, and you can find out more about it at our website, buildingrelationships.us. It's titled Light Bulb Moments in Marriage. 12 Biblical Perspectives for Successful and Satisfied Couples.

Again, we have it linked there: buildingrelationships.us. And I want to turn that around to you, Gary. Have you had an aha moment? When the light came on for you about your marriage? Absolutely.

I remember early on, the first couple of years of our marriage, I thought I'd married the wrong woman. You know, I mean, things were not going well at all. And I finally said to God, I don't know what else to do, because I was in seminary studying to be a pastor. I don't know what else to do. I said, she won't listen to me, which shows you where I was.

And immediately the image came to my mind of Jesus on his knees washing the disciples' feet. And I heard God say, the problem in your marriage is you do not have the attitude of Christ toward your wife. Whoa Hit me like a ton of bricks And I wept and cried and told God how sorry I was and asked God to. Give me the attitude of Christ. Because I knew his attitude was one of serving others, and that was not my attitude.

My attitude was: if you just listen to me, woman, we can have a good marriage, you know.

So I'm excited about our program today. When I turned that around and started asking her, you know, how can I help you, and how can I make your life easier, and how can I be a better husband? And she was willing to give me answers. Then, yep, things began to turn around. It was an aha moment for me.

So, yeah, I'm excited about talking today to Dr. Egrich because this is a huge topic. I think so too. And maybe this program will be a light bulb moment for you and your marriage. That's what we pray today.

So let's remeet Dr. Emerson Egrich, a New York Times best-selling author, renowned marriage and communication expert, dynamic speaker, decades of experience. He's worked with couples and organizations like the NFL, Navy SEALs, Congress. Through his love and respect conferences and books, Dr. Egrich, alongside his wife Sarah, offers authentic, inspiring advice rooted in personal experience.

He and Sarah have been married more than 50 years, by the way. His latest book is our featured resource at buildingrelationships.us. It's titled Light Bulb Moments in Marriage. Just go to buildingrelationships.us.

Well Dr. Egrich, welcome back to Building Relationships.

Well, thank you. And Gary, thank you for that personal testimony. I mean, I wish I would have known that better than I now know it. I would have included it front and center in the book. And it really echoes, I think, all of our experience.

But what a tribute to you. And some of us are afraid. And part of that. Light bulb moment is that willingness to say, Lord, would you reveal some things to me? And you know, most of us are a little apprehensive.

And you're a great example of how the Lord subsequently has honored you so greatly. And anybody listening needs to be reminded: yeah, there may be a moment of self-awareness that none of us feel comfortable with. I have my stories, to say the least, but there is a subsequent honoring. And look at how the Lord has honored Gary, and we all know that. And so I think it's a fitting example.

Yep, it was certainly a light bulb moment for me.

Well, what inspired you to write this Light Bulb Moments in Marriage?

Well, I think you would relate. I mean, through the years of doing the Love and Respect Conference and the Love and Respect book, people would write. As they do, you have me saying, I had a light bulb moment, I had a Eureka moment, an aha moment, I saw something. In a way that I hadn't seen it before. And one of the points that I try to make is: sometimes we don't need more effort, we need more light.

And uh even in your case, you know, trying to get her to listen to you or j Never which way. Get her to listen. That woman just listened to me. But it wasn't that you lacked effort, it's that you didn't have the insight that all of us would acknowledge we don't on many occasions. And so I think many couples are struggling in their relationships, but they don't struggle because they don't care.

I mean, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7. 33 and 34, the husband is concerned about how to please his wife, and the wife is concerned about how to please her husband. And I believe that. I often ask people, does your spouse have basic goodwill? And I've been stunned at how many people say yes.

Now they're upset with them in this area or that area, but they will say yes. No, my spouse has basic goodwill. And yet, how do we reinterpret that when we're mad at them, we don't like them, or we think we married the wrong person? And is there any possible insight that we can gain that would cause us to pivot in such a way that instead of griping, we actually start grinning? Yeah, yeah.

So, what makes the light bulb moment so impactful for marital growth?

Well, I think you yourself, the Lord Himself, visited you in His merciful, kind way. I mean, what a precious, powerful moment, a holy moment. And that's what I don't want people to deprive themselves of, but it's that moment of illumination. Where, as I say, you don't need more effort, you need more light. And sometimes, if we'll just turn our heart toward the Lord to say, you know, what is it that I need to see here and not be afraid of him?

If anybody was a gentleman, he is. And he's slow with us. He's never in a hurry in that regard, but we must not be afraid of him. And there come these moments where suddenly we see things we hadn't seen before. And in the book, I talk about the upward.

the outward and the inward. And that there are things about the Lord Himself that we need to discover. There are things about my spouse I need to discover. And there are things about myself I need to discover. And the book revolves around hundreds of testimonies of people who had those light bulb moments based on scripture that I've been sharing with people at our conferences and in my books.

Oh yes. I remember when you were at our church many, many, many years ago and did your did your conference with us. And so it's great to have you with us today. Have you spoken with couples who have never had a light bulb moment? You know, that's a good question.

No one's ever asked me that question per se. I think most people have had insight into themselves or the other person.

Sometimes, though, it begs the question: what are they going to do with that insight, that knowledge? I think the Christ follower who's having, you know, a regular devotion and in prayer, the Lord is going to be speaking. He's not going to be silent. But I think there is a place of hardness of heart. We can be callous.

We can, you know, suppress the truth and unrighteousness. We can sear our conscience. But those are pretty severe spiritual categories. I think most of us are just trying to do what's right and righteous. And we are concerned to please the other person.

We don't get up early in the morning to storyboard ways to irritate the other person. But at the end of the day, we don't like each other. And this is one of my concerns. And I believe, in part, many of the the the problems, as you would agree, I'm sure, Gary, it's just honest misunderstanding. There isn't ill will.

It's like "The 5 Love Languages" . Once people have that aha moment, and your book is worldwide in knowing that it's like, wow, I now get it. I now see why my spouse reacts the way they do, or why they're appealing to me the way they are, or why I'm appealing to them the way that I am. And that revolutionizes a person with just a little piece of information. And your book has done that so powerfully.

Well, it's been amazing to me to see how God has used that book all over the world, as he has your book, Love and Respect. How does this this new book differ from Love and Respect? And that's a good question, and people ask that. Have these 12 testimonies, so to speak, 12 perspectives, 12 biblical ideas.

So it starts right off: is my self-image going to be God-given or spouse-driven? And I talk about that in love and respect, but I start the book right. Away with Who am I in Christ? What does the Lord feel about me? And am I going to see myself the way the Lord sees me?

One of the points I make is Sarah refines me, my wife, but she does not define me. And I've got to remain teachable on the one hand. But I have to, at my core, remain restful in Christ's view of me. I'm blameless in Christ. I'm not condemned in Christ.

I'm a saint by calling. And we all know this who have been in the church for a while. But how do we appropriate that in the moment where we're feeling insecure around our spouse who is critiquing us? Dr. Egrich, you talk about the crazy cycle in marriage.

What is that and how can couples break free from it?

Well, that's based on Ephesians 5:33, where a husband is commanded to love and a wife is commanded to respect. There's not a whole lot of debate about the first part, but the second part wives will say, I don't feel any respect for him. He hasn't earned it. He doesn't deserve it. He's not superior to me.

I'm not inferior to him. I'm not going to be treated like a doormat. I'm not going to set the feminist team back 50 years. I certainly am not going to abide by what I think is your agenda, and that is return to male patriarchy. I'm not going to give him license to do whatever he wants to do.

But other than these things, Dr. Emerson, I'm really open to hearing what you have to say about this.

So, the challenge that I had was to try to make the case that men serve and die for honor. And there are narcissistic men as there are narcissistic women. But if there is basic goodwill, then people get on what I call the crazy cycle. If we all need love and respect equally, but the felt need differs. I've asked 7,000 people this question: when you're in a conflict with your spouse, are you more likely to feel disrespected at that time or more likely to feel unloved?

And 83% of the men. Say they feel disrespected. And one reason for that is men never doubt the wife's love. I mean, they just, I don't doubt her love. And uh but and 72% of the women say they feel unloved.

So there are exceptions to the idea in our experience, but nonetheless, it gave birth to what I call the crazy cycle. Without love, she reacts without respect. And without respect, he reacts without love, then without love, she reacts without respect, and without respect and this baby spins. And I ask people, have you ever had a conflict with your spouse when suddenly the issue didn't seem to be the issue and you saw the spirit of your spouse deflate? You're probably on the crazy cycle, and you can either dismiss them as childish because you can't imagine deflating over what you perceive to be at worst as a minor criticism.

and really given to be helpful. And so we end up staying on the crazy cycle because then they react, and then we react, and so on, and so forth. But in the book, One of the differences here, I talk about the fact that our defensive reactions prove offensive. And part of self-awareness is coming to a point later in the book, one of the chapters deals with the self-awareness that my defensive reactions can be offensive. And this is what we don't see because we feel insecure, we feel defensive, and we react expecting our spouse to decode this.

She ends up coming across disrespectfully, which is offensive, but she expects him to understand that he's hurt her feelings, that he's come across unloving, and she's looking for him to say, I'm sorry, will you forgive me? But her negativity Uh her look Even the word choice, which is disrespectful, quite often. Women say, I don't know what respect is, but I've got disrespect down quite well. I know how to be disrespectful. And it just feeds it.

So I challenge people in this book. We've got to become aware of how we're coming across because if I misrepresent myself to Sarah. my wife of over fifty years as you referenced, then she's going to misinterpret me. Hmm.

So, how do you break it? What do you do to change that? Th that dynamic.

Well, I think one of the points in the book I talk about, not wrong, just different shades of right. Not wrong, just different shades of right. Unless there's evil going on, most people are, you know, they get into the crazy cycle because he wants to spend that $10,000 they got from the aunt who just died and she wants to save it, that $10,000.

So now they have a conflict.

Well, there's no thus saith the Lord, spend or save the $10,000. $10,000, this is a clashing preference. And this is where most conflicts are between husbands and wives, these gray areas. And we end up then getting on this crazy cycle. One of the things that Sarah and I try to learn is: look, you're not wrong, Sarah.

I would never say you're wrong for your difference of opinion. Your position is just less better than mine. But we don't, the English language is clunky. We don't have a way of making these relativistic statements.

So we just simply say, you're wrong. I'm right. I'm normal. You're abnormal. And we end up judging our spouse, and they go on the defensive, and we're right back on the crazy cycle.

So, one of the things that we challenge people with: does your spouse have that basic goodwill? 1 Corinthians 7, 33 and 34. The husband is concerned to please his wife, the wife is concerned to please her husband. And in those crazy cycle moments, is she really trying to be disrespectful or is she crying out, saying, I have a need that only you can meet? And is he trying to be unloving?

Or is he saying, I'm vulnerable when you come across to me in a way that no one talks to me? I wish I could be like Jesus and walk on water, but I deflate. And if two people can have that conversation and meet each other halfway, they'll get off that crazy cycle. Yeah. Yeah.

So important.

So important.

Wow. We'll talk about the three sections of the book and why each one is important.

Well, those three dimensions, and you probably have seen them as well, it helps me think through my own life. You know, how's my walk with Christ? How's my relationship with Sarah? And what about myself? Do I need to kind of take a look at with some emotional intelligence?

But the first part of the book, the four chapters, deals with our self-image, my identity, being in Christ. I talked about our value. Coming to a point of s The intent, and this is something I didn't know how it would play in Piora, so to speak. But at our conferences, at the end of the conference, I call people forward to put a stake in the ground and do what they do toward their spouse as to the Lord, who is standing beyond the shoulder of their spouse. And I didn't know, Gary, if people would respond to that.

And focus on the family sponsored us for four years, and they spent a lot of money to evaluate the long-term impact of love and respect. And we created this spiritual satisfaction scale, which talks about doing what you do unto Jesus Christ, regardless of your spouse. And we did some study of that. People who, after the conference, had a satisfied marriage, what we call the marital satisfaction scale, it was up, and so was the spiritual satisfaction up. But then they found out their spouse committed adultery.

So the spiritual satisfaction dropped. Excuse me, the marital satisfaction dropped, but the spiritual satisfaction stayed up. And we realize that the Christ followers who have been attending these conferences get it. That I can please Christ. I can do what I do out of my love and reverence for Christ, even if my spouse doesn't appreciate me or respond to me.

Nothing is wasted. Everything matters. And I unpack in that second chapter: have we been challenged to think about this is not ultimately about your spouse in you, this is about Christ in you. And that's been one of those illuminating moments that people said, I never even thought about this. I had a guy that was way up in Nickelodeon, and I used to go in and out of Manhattan.

He said, I never, this is about Christ in me, not about my wife and me. I never even thought about that. And there are many people who are in sad marriages and they're not leaving it, but they're not happy. But suddenly they had a whole new purpose. And I talk about this with the many testimonies of people who began to experience Christ in their marriage as they loved and reverenced Him in the face of an individual who, at this point in time, was not responding very favorably to them.

That was a major pivot for many, many people. And that's very, very important. And then ultimately, a third chapter deals with hearing well done, good and faithful servant. I don't believe we're married in heaven. I believe we are the wife of the Lamb, that the marriage feast will usher us into that eternal realm.

And so, marriage is a tool and a test to deepen and demonstrate our love and reverence for Christ. And if we get this, if we make a commitment to live this way, I believe this is one of the key factors that will contribute to the Lord Himself saying, well done. Good and faithful servant.

So that gives you a little flavor of the first section. There's more, but I could go on and on. Yeah, well, you know, I don't have any question about that being the first chapter and the first section. Because if we get that right, then the wife and the self certainly is going to be influenced by that. But before we go further, define for us what is a successful marriage?

Well, and that's an excellent question. I don't think it's the Hollywood, one of the chapters: are we going to live according to the Holy Word or Hollywood? And I think we all have this idealism. And there is a great deal of truth that comes out of some of these movies. If I wasn't a Christian, I'd probably be writing script for Hollywood.

I really see that there are some dynamics there that I think I can speak into. But I think there is a superficiality to that. And a successful marriage ultimately is one that pleases Christ. I mean, I really believe that, and that I am loving Christ, I'm trusting Christ, and obeying him. And in my opinion, I can do marriage God's way, even if my spouse doesn't.

That I believe, and I say this at our conference, you can stand before Christ on that day, and the Lord will say, You did marriage my way, even though your spouse rebelled against you and me. And that's like a light bulb moment for some people because we have this idea that it takes two to have a healthy marriage. And I agree with that. I mean, I'm not fighting against that. But there are people who are trying everything they know to do, and they really are good souls.

They love the Lord, but it's kind of like I'm failing in this marriage. No, you're not. You could be succeeding more than people that you see on the silver screen that seem to be so madly in love that there's no imperfection. And in your marriage, there is this ongoing tension, but you are. Succeeding in the eyes of Christ, and I unpack, Gary.

What it means to have a successful marriage, even if your spouse isn't responding to you, and talk about a paradox. Wow. I can hear some of our listeners thinking, wow, I've never heard that before. Because there are a lot of people that are in that category in which they really are walking with God and loving their spouse, even though the spouse is unlovely and they've been doing it for a long time, but they feel like, oh, no, I'm a failure in my marriage. Man, that's a powerful word.

Well, and you know it. I mean, "The 5 Love Languages" , you know. I mean, better than anybody, people have applied this in companies and said, Gary, it's not working. And I know you've said to them, but you're doing it for the cause of Christ, for the purpose of Christ, and nothing is wasted. Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, one of the key lessons, you say, and I'm quoting here, don't let the 20% define the 80%. Explain that and its practical application. Yes, and the 80-20 ratio is a well-known ratio, you know, and I apply it here because we have a person who's imperfect. There was only one perfect couple and they blew it. And so we are not married to a perfect person.

And they have shortcomings. And even the strengths that people have have backsided weaknesses. You know, you maybe married her because she was so social and you were an introvert and you just loved it now that you were being included during the dating, courting, and you're now center stage in these social settings that before you were standing on the wall in the corner. And now she's brought you into this.

Now, 15 years into the marriage, you're at church, you're ready to leave, and she's still in the lobby talking. And so now the very thing that attracted you is irritating you. And that's where this front-sided strength becomes the backsided weakness. And we fixate on that. And I challenge people: let's just step back here for a moment.

That person that drew you to them is still there. And sometimes we get this truncated perspective. We become myopic. And I said, that 20% can be truly a shortcoming. It can be a fault.

It is not to be justified fully, but if you interpret them totally through that. And you conclude they even lack goodwill toward you because of those shortcomings, I think you're missing it. And so in this chapter, I talk about the many people who said, you know what, I see that they have inadequacies, but I've kept the perspective. In fact, I now try to see my spouse the way Christ himself sees my spouse. Through the years, I've said if you label your spouse a Judas when they're really a Peter, you're doing a big disservice.

Even the Lord doesn't view your spouse as a Judas. And even though they may be a Peter, and I bring that up because Judas at a period of time denied Jesus. Peter denied Jesus, but there is a Huge difference between the spirit of a Judas In the spirit of a Peter. And if you're judging your spouse on that 20% as though they're a Judas, when they're really a Peter, the Lord Himself is not viewing your spouse that way. And furthermore, in the book, I talk about how do we appeal to our spouse not to be judging us so much.

And part of that appeal is if you kind of back away from that and begin to affirm the things that God sees about them, you can appeal to them to remind them about how the Lord sees you as well. And I talk there about how couples have come together on this and kind of laying down their swords. And began to appreciate each other the way the Lord does. But you've got to keep it in perspective. There is an 80%, they're spiritually gifted, they have good will, they have strengths, they have abilities.

I mean, our spouse has so many wonderful things, but if we're going to let those things that bother us and result in resentment, we will fail to see them the way the Lord does. And that's not a good thing.

Well No question about that. And I think all of us tend to focus on the 20% by nature, you know, the negative part by nature. But if we're really walking with God, then we certainly have the capability of focusing on the 80%. But how do you do that? How do you flip the you know, stop looking at the 20 and look at the 80?

Is it because Gary's talked a lot about being thankful, you know, let thanksgiving be a part of your heart and praying for your spouse. That kind of can turn things around, can it, Dr. Egridge? Oh, absolutely. But I think an illustration: my wife, Sarah, of over 50 years, she cares.

She's a nurturer. She cares. She cares. She cares. And I truly believe that.

She cares. You know, all the charts in evaluating women, they're caregivers. They just care. Women care. They can't not care.

They'll find something to care about today if the thing they cared about yesterday is past. They care. They just love to care.

Now, there's exceptions to everything, but I say to men, your wife cares, but I'm going to tell you, she's going to mother you. She's going to critique you. There are going to be moments of criticism. She sees herself trying to help you. I've said to Sarah, look, I have one mother.

I don't need another. I need a lover.

So I would be very easy for me to focus in on. She's confronting me. She once chased me around the house with my love and respect book, saying, What would you say to a husband treating his wife the way you're treating me right now? And so, you know, that's not a, that was not a better day. I've had better days than that one.

But the point here is that I have to remind myself when Sarah's addressing something in me that she cares. And so that 80/20. 80-20 applies there.

So often the virtue is there, but we're labeling it as a vice. And that just takes discipline. It just takes a perspective of seeing the individual for who they really are. And uh it is such a uh a revolutionary moment. And I've been through this enough with many couples that when they begin to see it, they actually begin to grin, as I said earlier, rather than gripe.

That when she's coming at me because she cares, I said she cares, not because she's wanting to show me contempt or disrespect or put me down or mother me. And once you are able to see that, so too women who are listening. 85% of those who withdraw in Stonewall on the heels of a conflict is the husband. Why? Because his heartbeats are 99 beats per minute and he has to calm down.

He moves into warrior mode in a way that you don't. You look like you're having emotional meltdown, but you're not. Your heartbeats are normal. And just say to her, I'm so sorry, honey, will you forgive me? And you'll immediately say, Oh, that's so sweet.

Oh, I was horrible. I was rotten. I was far worse than you. You understand that dynamic. You feel comfortable in the ocean of emotion, Gottman talks about.

But your husband does not. And so the question is, is he being unloving when he withdraws. That's the way you would see it as a pink person. But what if he's really doing the honorable thing? What if in the world of men, when we get into heated moments, the relationship is more important than the stupid thing that we're talking about?

And so men will say, Drop it, forget it, I'm done, and we'll exit. We don't later say, You hurt my feelings as you walked away from me. We don't do that. We see that as an act of honor.

So one of the things I've helped women is come to is, is this an act of hostility or is it an act of honor? And is this an act of contempt or is this an act of care? And if we come to a point where we give them the benefit of the doubt, healing comes. Just that quickly. Thanks for joining us for the Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chapman podcast. Go to buildingrelationships.us to see a list of seminar locations coming up for Dr. Chapman. You can hear a podcast of the program and find out about our featured resource, the book by Dr. Emerson Egrich, Light Bulb Moments in Marriage.

Just go to buildingrelationships.us or visit us at fivelovelanguages.com. In that last segment, Dr. Egrich, on that 2080, I was sitting here thinking. I bet there's a lot of people listening to this right now who are saying, man, I want to read that book just for that part. I'm not going to let that soak in because that was so important.

I'll ask you another question unrelated to that, really. How do movies and TV shows distort real world relationships? And how can couples counteract the influences of media?

Well, and that's the fourth chapter. Are we going to live by Hollywood or the Holy Word? And I was not raised in a church, I was not raised in a Christian family, and I had to come to a point where I was going to allow the Word of God to be the final authority for my faith and practice. And I think the challenge I've been extended even in this interview: will you believe, based on 1 Corinthians 7, 33 and 34, that your husband is concerned to please you and your wife is concerned to please you? But we come to a point where our feelings Dictate what we feel and believe about our spouse so that, let's say, you continue to appeal to them.

to just make a little change if because they've done it they've made a positive change and you've been so happy And but they only do it for several weeks, and now they've stopped.

So you revisited that and asked them again, and they reform short term, and you're happy. But this goes on now for 15 years, and it keeps going back to the way that you don't want it to go back to.

So you can only conclude one thing. They don't care. And I don't matter. And that's how I feel about it. And I'm not trying to be right.

I just know I am right. I know what I feel. They don't care. And I don't matter. And once you draw that conclusion and you start defending that, then I sometimes have a difficult time pushing through that.

But if you're going to live by the word, not by Hollywood, But by the Holy Word, then you have to come to a point where, as I said with Sarah, she is concerned ultimately to please me. She doesn't get up early in the morning, the storyboard ways, to annoy me. It isn't in her heart. Even though we're fallen and we need the Savior, Paul, who pinned Romans the great treatise on total depravity, could have said to the married in Corinth, You are sinful and selfish, now get over it. But he doesn't do that, he appeals to them to believe in the goodwill of the other person.

And the reason I bring that up is that Hollywood is going to create this image. And we all are going to compare what we have to what we see out there. And Paul himself said, We compare ourselves with ourselves, and we measure ourselves by ourselves, and we understand nothing. And we've got to come to a point where we're either going to live by the word of God and believe what that says about my spouse, or I'm going to let this. Hollywood create this appetite in me and cause me to feel that I'm missing out.

And I just want to say to a person who's in that situation, trust me, and I know Gary would say the same thing. We've been around this block so many times, it isn't what you think. And the person that God has given to you, if he's joined you with this person, you have a sense of call with this person, then you need to just revisit this and believe that the Lord has a purpose in this relationship. Trust him in this relationship. Do marriage his way.

Don't give in to those temptations that are out there. Because I have been around this enough now to know, watching people who made those decisions, I had a guy come to me at our conference and said, I've been married five times, and the first one was best. He came to that realization that he was a fool. This brings to my mind a lady who told me some time ago, she said, I am the eighth wife my husband has had. And in my mind, I have to be honest with you.

I was thinking, lady, why did you marry him? Surely, surely you were known. Yes. Oh, my.

Well, and on that point, some of us are seeing couples hand in hand, embracing. They're 50 years old each and they're in the park and they're, oh, they're in such love. I say to folks, this is their third marriage. Go talk to the adult children. Go talk to their adult children.

You know, I mean, it's just amazing to me how we see things at a face value rather than stopping long enough to consider what's really going on here. And not be fooled about it. It doesn't mean that the appetite you have for more in your relationship is unhealthy. It can be.

Some of you are suffering. I'm not going to deny that. My mother and dad, they weren't Christ followers. My mom left for five years. My dad attempted to strangle my mother to death.

I was two and a half. I witnessed that. There are a lot of family problems that I experienced, and I understand and empathize with that. But even my mom and dad came to Christ later and their lives changed. And even that past that you've gone through, let's give the Lord an opportunity to come on toward you in your behalf.

Let's trust the Lord here. Let's look to Him, not to Hollywood. Yeah, yeah.

Great advice. I know that you've encountered and I've encountered many couples who have really basically lost hope and they're saying, we have no hope. You know, we've tried counseling for three years or whatever. You know, they tell me what they've done and they just have no hope. That is, they've had no light bulb moment that turned things around.

How do you respond to a couple as they share that sort of Well, I'm empathetic, you know, because I know my mom and dad and you know, I understand that. But I believe that in many of these situations, the the reason for the difficulties is an honest misunderstanding. They continue to honestly misunderstand each other because we do relationships differently as men and women. And so, what happens, the other person isn't responding to us, and in fact, is actually responding in a way that's just the opposite of what we want. It doesn't make any sense to a woman to have a man just go quiet.

and just withdraw. And so she can only conclude he doesn't love me. And therefore he keeps doing that, therefore our relationship is hopeless. And or the other thing, all she does is complain and criticize. I can never be good enough.

All she does is show me disrespect.

Okay. And so there's no way this relationship is going to change. You know, I'm sick and tired of this. But what if what if, based on what we've been saying, it isn't what you think and it isn't what you feel, that they're actually defensively reacting and they're ultimately reacting because they're saying, I have a need that only you can meet. And this isn't a complaint, it's a compliment.

What if, in fact, that's what's been going on? But you're like in a dark room, and this is why I say you don't need more effort, you need more light. Two people in a pitch black room, they feel like they're miles apart when they're really just inches apart. But it's the lack of insight, it's a lack of knowledge. This is why "The 5 Love Languages" has revolutionized relationships.

People would all say, We were kind of wanting to call it quits until we read Gary's book, and suddenly we realized the gift that we could give to the other. And when we gave that to them, they were energized, their tanks were filled, and we became happy campers. It didn't mean that we didn't have cancer with our five-year-old who ended up dying and the suffering we went through. But the relationship that we had with each other remained stable and satisfying. And that's why I say to the couple who feels that they're hopeless: tell me why you feel that way.

Have they betrayed you? Is there adultery there? Or is this, at the end of the day, just two people Who have goodwill, but they are missing each other because they don't have a little knowledge and a little skill that I address in the new book called Light Bulb Moments.

So, what you're saying is, among other things, that self-awareness. is critical. in terms of resolving marital conflict.

Well, it's certainly fundamental. I think we have to have a point where we become aware of the things that we might be doing that are sabotaging the very thing that we long to happen. And sometimes we can fail to see that. This is what's so problematic at times. You know, I talk about bias.

You know, I say, you know, when I have a rotten disposition towards Sarah, it's because Sarah's had a rotten disposition.

So I blame her. And when Sarah has a rotten disposition, it's because she has a rotten disposition. Yep. This bias in our own favor and against our spouse. But if we come to a point where we're aware of the fact that we're doing that and we give our spouse the benefit of the doubt, and I unpack, well, how do you do that when you're mad at them?

How do you do that when you don't like them? But I will tell you that sometimes we have far more power if we become aware of just doing a few little things differently. The impact that it makes is just incredible. I mean, one of the things I say when couples get on the crazy cycle and a woman sees her husband reacting on this crazy cycle, because you know, if she says, look, I'm not trying to dishonor you. I'm not trying to disrespect you.

Actually, I have a need that only you can meet. How do I address this issue without you feeling I'm trying to put you down because you're an honorable man? I know you would die for me if I don't kill you first.

So, how do I talk to you in a way that we don't stay on this crazy cycle? I say to ladies, you say that to him and you use what I call respect talk there. Watch him soften, turn towards you, and he may even grin. And if you're not Baptist, he may say, What have you been drinking? You know, I I really am I talk I'm talking to you here, but I'm listening to this and I'm thinking this book will help people for sure.

Man, this is great stuff. Thank you, Gary. Coming from you, that's very much a blessing. Thank you.

Well, it's just so insightful. Let's talk about happily married couples and how can they benefit from what you talk about in this book?

Well, I think many times the happily married people are those who continue to subject themselves to those situations where they can enrich the relationship. I think you've heard that. I've heard that. They just keep working at it.

So I think there will be some things there that can really, you know, just inspire them and excite them. And furthermore, reinforce to them that they made right choices. You know, there comes a moment when we need to say, you know, we did it right and we need to celebrate that. But also, sometimes people have happy relationships and they've not really articulated why. And so people just look at it and say, well, you're just lucky.

You know, just you're just lucky. Just you're just lucky. And I say to couples like that, you need to figure out. What you've done here and I hope this book will help you give a language to you to explain to other people who are looking to you and I hope to give you ways and scripts that you can share with them that they can have what you have. This didn't happen by accident, and you know that.

And you know the many times that you had heated fellowship. Sarah, and I've had heated fellowship a lot. But people don't know always what's going on behind closed doors. And we want you to take these principles and think about them and say, Yeah, that's exactly what we did about 20 years ago. And that enabled us to pivot.

Well, that's part of your life message then. And you need to be able to pass that on to other people.

So I challenge people like that to. Think in terms of giving out. But you won't be able to do that if you can't articulate. what you're doing and why you did it. Dr.

Egrich, why do you think church-going people often Either they don't know the biblical concepts of husbands and wives, or it's overlooked. Why do you think that's true of so many Christ church-going people? That's an excellent question. I mean, I'm intrigued what you would say. In your opinion, I'd love to learn from you on that.

What's been your observation? I don't want to turn it on you, but I really am curious. I think a lot of times they fail to take biblical truth and apply it. to a marriage relationship. You know, they know the example of Jesus being a servant attitude and the Philippians 2 passage that says, you know, let this attitude be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.

and they apply it in other areas.

So they're serving at the soup kitchen or they're serving somewhere else. but they don't necessarily apply that same principle in the marriage relationship. And I don't know why that is, but I d I do know that this often happens, that they don't think in terms of applying these biblical concepts to the marriage relationship. I don't know. I don't know what you found.

You know, I mean, I echo that. And I think you were an example of that early in this conversation where you made a decision to serve your wife because the Lord spoke to you. And I think there is a self-focus. We have this: if only my spouse would do this toward me, I would be happy, and we would be happy. And so there is this tendency to begin to try to change them and more than coming at them because we don't believe if we do this right and righteous thing like you did, that it will empower us and it will have the impact.

I mean, the last chapter is: My response is my responsibility. Sarah doesn't cause me to be the way I am. She reveals the way I am. Therefore, if my response is unloving, it reveals an unresolved root issue in my life that I can't blame on her, but I'll try everything I can to blame her. But nonetheless, that became a liberating moment for me that my response is my responsibility.

And it freed me up because then Sarah couldn't control me.

So I think the challenge sometimes is we're trying to always Get that other person to change on us. But I think your example, I'm going to do this, regardless of my wife, I'm going to do this. And years ago, I heard a well-known Bible expositor make this statement to me. He said, some of the most carnal people in the world. Are sitting in the pews of those churches that exposit scripture verse by verse in the most profound ways, week after week, year after year, because they've become anesthesized.

If they can resist the Holy Spirit this week, they can resist next week. And so the challenge that I tenderly extend to those in the church, you know, Look. Uh don't harden your heart. Stay sensitive and let Gary's example be: don't deprive yourself of letting the Lord honor you. The relationship may or may not change.

I can't make that prediction. What I do know is you will please Christ.

So don't deprive yourself. Of that moment where you're going to stand before the Lord and He's going to say, Well done, good and faithful servant. But I also talk about this. We are felt need-oriented.

So if I said to wives, I'm going to give you a message: how to get your husband to love you. Versus how to respect your husband. Which are they going to sign up for? They're going to sign up for the first, not the second. And yet, scripture tells us doesn't command a wife to agape love her husband.

It does command the husband to love her. But as I say to people, you know, through the years, I never tell Sarah what she's supposed to do biblically. I only lock into what God is saying to me. It's not my right to tell Sarah to respect me. It's not my right to say to Sarah, submit to me.

It's not my right. That's God and Sarah. I have my responsibility on my side of things. But you know what? That's not very inviting.

But it is biblical. And so the challenge for us as biblicists is to come back to the point: are we going to say sola scriptura? It is written, it is written, it is written, and I today am going to make a decision to do what Christ is calling me to do, regardless of what my spouse does. But that takes maturity. In those early years when you were in seminary, Gary, you were already demonstrating a godly wisdom and you made a decision, and look what happened.

Yep. We've been married sixty four years. Wow. But now here's another point that you make, that God intends for every marriage not just to find harmony, but to fulfil God's calling. Om viom.

How does that change a couple's outlook?

Well, in fact, I asked people at our conferences: how many believe that Jesus Christ joined you together? And people raised their hands. How many of you sense that God called you as a husband-wife to something bigger than your relationship? People will raise their hands. I'm writing a book called A Win-Win Marriage based on 1 Corinthians 7.

And nine times there, Paul says you're called. Nine times. And people sense a destiny, they sense they were called, but they get derailed. Because they don't apply the things that you've taught. They don't apply the things that I see in the love and respect book.

They don't apply that. But they sense that there is something bigger than themselves about that.

So, part of the challenge I extend to people is: let's go back. You're looking at that review mirror and you see the call in the distance, and you say, Well, I guess we've really been derailed. There's no point. No, no, no. It's a new day.

You can begin again, and Christ can put you back together on this, and you can do marriage His way. You can, and you need to trust that that's going to happen.

Now, the challenge, of course, in harmonization is the same team. Same goal. Different place, and the problem is, and I talk in the book: we have 27 common goals. I unpack that, it's arbitrary at one level, but I said there is so much we have in common. When we have the same, we're on the same team.

I say to people, Are you allies or enemies? Are you friends or are you foes? Are you teammates or are you opponents? And most people will say, Well, we are allies, we are teammates. Then we need to lock into that.

We are on the same team. We have the same goal, at least 27 of them that I unpack in this book, but now you're gonna have differences of opinion on how to achieve that goal. And I unpack for people then how do you have these differing preferences where you have honest differences of opinion and you have strong convictions about that? I unpack. Romans 14 that specifically addresses that on how to come together in a harmonious way.

Why? Because if you don't, you're not going to fulfill God's call on your marriage and on your life. You're going to continue to fight each other. I've had couples say to me, we didn't even know we could experience win-win. All we do is fight until one of us gives in.

Hmm.

Yep. Yep. So that's often the case.

Well, let me ask you this about your own life. After 52 years of marriage, or or more than 52, how have these insights continued to shape your own marriage? Oh, I mean, because I'm principle driven and Sarah and I, and we still have challenges, and we know we're in our last phases.

So, one of us is going to experience ill health, the challenge of so many situations that are yet to be encountered.

So, we are not done yet. But we have locked into these basic principles. And we still get on the crazy cycle. We just know how to jump off of it sooner. We want to be nasty with each other every so in a while, but we're grinning as we are because we don't want to apply what we know.

But we don't get out of control. My dad had rage issues. There are 24 divorces in Sarah's extended family. We made a decision. We made a decision that this is How we're going to live.

Even as a pastor, one of my sons said, Well, you and Dad live the way you do because he's a pastor. And Sarah looked at him and said, David, we would live this way whether we were in the ministry or not, because your dad and I have come to a point where we made a decision about how we're going to live and what we're going to do. And we know 20% is going to have moments of frustration. We accept that, but we're not going to lose and we don't lose sight of the 80%. And one of our ongoing prayers is: Lord, teach us to number our days that we would present to you a heart of wisdom.

And so we just are principle-driven. I write often about where we fail, but how we rebound, how we repair. And this is a main message that I have in the book. How do you repair? How do you rebound?

Because none of us are going to be perfect. The issue is: how are we going to deal with those moments of imperfection? Paul himself said in 1 Corinthians 7:28, if you marry, you have not sinned, but you will have trouble. You will have trouble.

So, how do we deal with those special challenges? And Sarah and I just every day we get up thinking, okay, something's probably going to happen that's going to annoy us, but how are we going to rebound? How are we going to deal with that? And I hope that people will buy the book because I give story after story of where Sarah and I have failed, but how we try to get back up. And there's a Proverbs.

That says, a righteous man falls seven times. I think it's Proverbs 24:16. A righteous man falls seven times, but rises again. And Sarah and I have just committed to that. We're going to get back up.

We're just going to get back up.

Well, Dr. Egrich, let me thank you for being with us today and sharing this on our program. But let me thank you for writing the book because I know that it's a journey writing things that you've come to discover that you know work because of your own life and the people you've worked with through the years, but it still takes time and effort. And I really believe that this book is going to help a lot of people. And I'm encouraging our listeners to get this book.

And I'm thinking right now of a couple that I want to get a copy for them because I think this book will help them. And I hope that our listeners will not only apply these things for their own marriage, but what you've already said earlier, and that is use these concepts to help other couples because all of us have an influence on other couples.

So keep up the good work and thanks again for being with us today. Oh, thank you, Gary. And I'm going to share those comments with Sarah. I'll say, Do you know what Gary said? God bless you, and let's pray for each other that we will both keep faithful to the end, okay?

Yes, yes.

Well, we hope you've heard some encouragement today for your marriage. And if you go to buildingrelationships.us, you'll see more about our guest and the featured resource. by Dr. Emerson Egrich, Light Bulb Moments in Marriage. 12 biblical perspective for successful and satisfied couples.

Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. And coming up next week, We open the phone lines for your calls and questions about relationship struggles. Don't miss our May edition of Dear Gary in one week. And if you want to ask Gary a question, call 1-866-466-6666-666. 424-GARET.

That's 1-866-424-GARI. Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Backing. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.

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